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tv   The Place for Politics 2016  MSNBC  April 26, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PDT

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. good evening, i'm lawrence o'donnell continuing the coverage of the northeast primaries. a written statement from bernie sanders' campaign. on the republican side, donald trump swept all five states by very big margins tonight. bernie sanders won rhode island tonight but that was not enough to slow hillary clinton's momentum toward the nomination. and the sanders' campaign issued
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a written statement that contains no reference to any remaining path to the nomination but does give another reason while bernie sanders intends to stay in the campaign until every state has voted. that statement reads, i congratulate secretary clint on her victories tonight. i am proud proud that we were able to win a resounding victory tonight in rhode island. democrats should recognize that the ticket with the best chance of winning this november must attract support from independents as well as democrats. i am proud of my campaign's record in that regard. the people in every state in this country should have the right to determine who they want as president, and what the agenda of the democratic party should be. that's why we are in this race until the last vote is cast. that is why this campaign is going to go to the democratic national convention in
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philadelphia with as many delegates delegat delegates as possible to fight for a party platform. hillary clinton is on track to win the nomination even if she loses all of the rest of the states that will vote between now and june 7th when the primary campaign ends in california. but if donald trump loses indiana next week he might not be able to win if delegates needed for the nomination. but tonight, donald trump declared himself to be the presumptive nominee. >> the only card she has is the women's card. she has nothing else going. if hillary clinton were a man i don't think she'd get 5% of the vote. and the beautiful thing is that women don't like her, okay? hillary clinton spoke before donald trump spoke tonight but it was easy for her to anticipate what donald trump
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might say about her. >> now, the other day, mr. trump accused me of playing the, quote, women card. well, if fighting for women's health care and paid family leave and equal pay is playing the women card, then deal me in! >> msnbc political kroentd steve kornacki joins us with a look at the road to the republican nomination. >> the headline is the road to 1237 opened up wide for donald trump. he came into the night with 845 trying to get to 1237. it looks like he is going to get roughly 110 of the bound delegates up for grabs tonight. that takes him to 955. but the real coup the 54 in pennsylvania. this is unofficial right now.
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but it looks like 2/3 of those unbound are people who support donald trump or people who say they will vote for the winner of their district and donald trump is sweeping pennsylvania right now. if you add in 35 of the unbound he would close out tonight with 990, with this to go. these are the states still to come on the republican side. you mention indiana. next week it's all about indiana right now the way the delegate rules win there. if you win by a fraction of a point you get the pubulk of the dell gants. trump looking strong in new mexico and west virginia. there are a couple of path ways to get to 1237. three weeks ago he lost to wisconsin and the conventional
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wisdom said it was over. the world feels different tonight. >> steve kornacki, thanks. joining us now is katy tur and hallie jackson. katy, some of us thought we were hearing a strong rebuke to the new regime in his campaign, paul manafort who promised a presidential donald trump this is the one we know better, the undisciplined donald trump who went on at great length and got in shots at hillary clinton. what is going on in the campaign in terms of the candidate's per presentation. >> lewandowski came and spoke to reporters before donald trump
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took the stage and he said that he would never change donald trump when i asked him if he is trying to evolve the candidate. and lewandowski was close to trump. but manafort was far down the right side, behind a corner and not in the eye line of cameras. you could read something into that or you could read that donald trump is allowing his long-time campaign manager to reestablish himself after what was an embarrassing week. i think the trump campaign is two-fold. in some ways this is the old donald trump that we saw tonight calling hillary clinton crooked. in other ways, he is giving a foreign policy speech tomorrow in washington, d.c. where i'm told he is going to read from a teleprompter, a speech rewritten by donald trump, i'm told which
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means that someone else wrote it and the campaign did confirm they hired a speech writer. i think we will have more indication about what is going on tomorrow. >> ted cruz spoke before the votes were counted and he predicted that the media was going to overreact to something that we knew was going to happen. but he did outperform the polls. but what is the cruz reaction now? >> looking ahead to tomorrow. cruz wants the night to be over. he is ready for the next six days, what may be the most critical days so far. he has to be able to prove in this effectively head to head match-up with donald trump now that john kasich has conceded campaigning here. number one challenge he has is that donald trump had dominant wins, above 50%, 55 to 60% in some of these states.
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cruz has been making the argument that trump can't win over a majority of conservatives. but he did tonight. but watch for cruz to pivot to a general election message to point out that cruz is the one who could be hillary clinton this fall. but he lost big in pennsylvania, potential by a battleground state in november. and that's where his rivals may attack him. and the other challenge for cruz is the delegate strategy. he is hunting delegates for a second ballot. but none of that matters if trump is able to lock up the nomination outright with 1236 delegates. the challenge now for cruz given what it looks like trump has done is to make the argument that some of the unbound delegates should swing their support over to cruise.
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>> thank you both for joining us. appreciate it. time for tonight's war room, the most important place to be in any presidential campaign, the war room is where they plot the strategies for snatching up the delegates and the strategies to reply to the latest attack and the strategies to launch the latest attack. the war room is where campaigns live or die and now they are staring at maps of indiana which votes next tuesday always keeping an eye on california, the big prize at the end of the primary calendar, the stop trump campaign decided not to fight trump in the northern states, the stop trump movement has spend $2 million with more on the way there. joining us in the war room tonight, where the only rule is
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you only get in this room if you have been in a real campaign war room. we have rick tyler, ben ginsburg, he served as national counsel for bush 2000/2004. and jim mclaughlin. he worked on the campaigns of bob dole and fred thompson. let go into the ted cruz war room tonight where all the pressure is. donald trump doesn't have it locked but rick tyler, this possibility of stopping him is getting narrower and narrower. what's going on in the cruz war room right now? >> two things, one is in indonesindiana is the most important thing. it could be a winner take all state. he is spending time there. and it seems that he is able to
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make some gains. he did that in wisconsin. and then it's going to be micro targeting california trying to pick off these 54 congressional districts one at a time and trying to make sure that he gets his share of the delegates to deny trump. he's got to do that. tonight, look -- tonight and last week was expected. and it was a big night for donald trump. i don't want to take away from him. but the cruz campaign was well aware they weren't going to do well in the northeast. the northeast is a different bird. delaware, connecticut, pennsylvania, rhode island, maryland, they have one republican senator in all those states. i'm from the northeast it's a difficult place to get conservatives elected. >> is someone taking a step back and saying let's talk about pennsylvania, we still have
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delegates to fight for in pennsylvania. is that still part of the game? >> sure, it's part of what is being said in the war room but there is a team on the ground in pennsylvania that has to do that. what the war room has to think about is we are in this position because we didn't do as well as we said we would in the southern states. what can we learn to take on a really republican state like indiana from what happened to us where we underperformed in those southern states? >> and, jim, what's the timing on this? we know indiana is a week from now and we know california is june 7th and california is gigantic with all those congressional districts you have to compete in. you don't have the time between now and june 7th to just concentrate on california, you know, to do a real job of trying to win california. but you have to concentrate on all the stuff before it.
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how do you keep california alive as a tragedy? >> it's the ultimate multitask and you have to do all of the above of what you just said. up to this point, the cruz campaign has done a got job going out and hunting for delegates. but i agree with rick they have to win indiana next week. they did a good job with the expectation game saying it doesn't matter. but they have to go out and try to replicate what they did in wisconsin to try to do in indiana. >> we have three republican candidates alive in this race. but only one has a war room running that is about actually winning the nomination through votes. the kasich war room and the cruz war room they are stop trump war rooms. and there is a stop trump war room. so we really have three stop trump war rooms that are all trying to do the same thing.
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>> that's right. so really -- look, kasich had a bad night tonight. he was supposed to do well in the northeast. so you have -- look, you have donald trump and you've got ted cruz who does not have a path to nomination. but mathematically, under the rules he and donald trump are the only ones that can be placed in the nomination. they have to stop him from getting to 1237 on the first ballot and if they go to a second ballot, donald trump will be in trouble. >> when we talk about the rules and getting placed in nomination, is that true just for the first ballot. if you are in the kasich war room how do you you get your guy placed in nomination? >> you don't have to get your guy placed in nomination. >> how do i get the nomination if my guy is not in -- >> you get people voting for
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you. it's a time control rule. it's designed to be sure that you don't have people who don't warrant the national air time giving -- >> nomination speeches. >> actually and this is true under the house of representatives, it is getting delegates that gets you the nomination. and rule 40 b which we love to talk about is all about controlling time and being able to get the convention speech and getting space in the hall being able to have the spontaneous well-timed floor demonstration. >> every time ben starts talking i start shaking my head half way through. so it may be -- >> we try to keep it that way. >> the rule allows only these two names to be placed in nomination through a speak. but if a bunch of delegates vote marco rubio and a bunch vote
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john kasich they are in play? >> absolutely. the delegates are bound under the votes of their state and their state-wide references. so if you were are a marco rubio delegate or a john kasich delegate under the rules your votes show up as delegates for them on the first ballot. >> california, the state that most resembles it is new york. what lessons did the crews war room learn in new york they apply to california? >> that's a great question. i think in a state like california, they can win some delegates and some congressional districts and that's their goal at this point is to deny him delegates. there were a couple of congressional districts in new york where he won with barely over 1200 votes. >> these are liberal districts in new york city.
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>> and you can run a campaign there doing grass roots and digital and mail for, you know, 150, maybe $250,000 which isn't a lot of money. and that's one the of things you want to do to try to deny delegates in california. >> our war room veterans are going to stay with us. up next, what is going on in the trump war room. that is a war room that is tough to imagine. also the fight for indiana will be a part of this. and coming up we'll go to the road warriors, coming up.
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billions are spent to confuse and, dare i say it, flummox the american public. "save 16% on car insurance." "switch now..." well at compare.com, we say enough's enough. so we constantly scrutinize millions of rates... answering the question once and for all, who has the lowest. just go to compare.com and get up to 50 free quotes. choose the lowest, and hit purchase. so you can get back to whatever it is you civilians do when you're not thinking about car insurance. compare.com the democrats have treated bernie very badly. and frankly, i think he should run as an independent. okay? it's over. as far as i'm concerned, it's over. these two guys cannot win. there's no path. hillary, i call her crooked hillary. she's crooked. she will be a horrible president. she will not be a good president. she doesn't have the strength,
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she doesn't have the stamina. >> we're back now with our republican campaign war room veterans to talk more about the donald trump strategy. with us again, rick tyler, ben ginsberg, jim mclaughlin. jim, imagine yourself in the trump campaign war room. if they -- if that plane makes it over the mountain to the nomination, the wheels are going to be scraping the tops of the peaks. this is as close as it gets. how do they plot the rest of the way? >> and then some. you know what it is? i think we're talking a lot about process tonight. we're talking about war room stuff. but i think if you're the trump campaign, you're the cruz campaign right now, you want to be talking more about messaging. i think what he wants to do is he wants to go back, and i thought it was interesting, i thought hillary did a good job tonight where she was going after donald trump. i think donald trump needs to focus more of his powder right now on hillary. >> so rick, jim is saying the first thing in the trump war
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room is somebody says, who's going to get control of this guy. who's going to get him to say what needs to be said. >> i think trump said very directly night i'm in control of me, and no one's going to be in control of me. he seems to try to act presidential. he seems to try to. he gets a lot of credit not calling ted cruz a liar. but instead of calling him senator, i think that's sort of a joke. but look, if he goes to the nomination, i mean, i really do believe he is going to have to change his tone. because he's actually in a very real sense, he is a northeastern liberal progressive. and we're going to end up with two of them in the race, hillary clinton on one side and donald trump on the other. is donald trump going to outlive the lib? i don't see how he mobilizes the conservative base to get excited to elect a northeastern progressive. >> tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts. it's always worked. i mean, he is for a giant tax
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cut. never mentions it. it's not mentioned in his speech. primetime speech to the country. there are some classic republican items in his agenda. most of which he does not mention. >> he recently said he would raise taxes on the rich. >> when you're in the trump war room, i'll bet you the first 90 minutes, before they get any technicals is, it's how do we get control of him? then they give up and go to the technicals. >> they have to let trump be trump. if you're in the war room, right now one of the things you need to get your hands around is the republican platform process. because there is doctrine in there that is not part of donald trump's rhetoric. that's sort of been an ignored facet. >>let look at the democratic side. >> we're joined by steve mcmann from purple strategy. he worked on three democratic presidential campaigns, including a consultant for governor howard dean's 2004 presidential campaign. steve, howard dean's campaign
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may be a model for what we're seeing tonight. very important written statement by the sanders campaign tonight. in which bernie sanders says, he gives this reason why he's staying in the race. that's why this campaign is going to the democratic national convention in philadelphia with as many delegates as possible. to fight for a progressive party platform. and then, steve, he lists all the items he wants in that platform. and in that written statement, not one word now, not one word about a path to the nomination. >> right. it's interesting. it's actually, i think, a little more reminiscent of a campaign i worked on as a kid, ted kennedy's campaign in 1980, where there was a certain point in the campaign which it became clear he wasn't going to be the nominee. but he felt strongly about a number of issues and wanted to continue in the race, and he did. he wanted to make his case on the convention floor, which he did. he actually won quite a few platform battles in 1980. but in the course of doing that, most of the carter people would
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say he probably didn't do president carter very much good in terms of coming out of that convention in a way that he could win the general election against ronald reagan. now, fortunately, democrats this time won't be running against ronald reagan. donald trump can steal his slogan from 1980, but he's never going to be ronald reagan, the candidate. that makes this a little easier for democrats to absorb. you're right, lawrence, the rationale for his candidacy moved tonight from i'm going to win this thing, to, i'm going to continue to fight because i care about these issues. it's not an illegitimate thing he's doing. how he does it becomes really important, though. >> steve, hillary clinton's victory speech tonight was as much addressed at sanders supporters as it was at her own supporters. she was very specific about it. there was a point where she reached beyond that, and referred to thoughtful republicans, considering herself to be addressing them. especially with donald trump on
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his way to that nomination. and so she is clearly working right now on bringing the bernie sanders supporters her way. >> yeah. i thought her speech tonight was very, very artful. she was very respectful towards senator sanders. and the ideas and the issues that he's raised and brought forward in this campaign. but she's also mindful there are a lot of swing voters out there who don't like donald trump right now. and before donald trump gets to reinvent himself, or tries to reinvent himself, i think she wants to start to make an impression on some of those voters which i thought she did artfully tonight. >> steve, talk for a minute about the emotion in that war room tonight, when they are staring at this situation and they are thinking, literally not just about what we do next but what do we say next? and they come up with this written statement, which the candidates certainly had to approve. that's a tough night sitting down composing this. >> yes. that's a very, very difficult night.
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because you can see, you know, just reading the tea leaves, and i am just reading tea leaves now. ted dwayne early -- ted divine earlier today said, tomorrow is a day for reassessment. if we don't have a path to the nomination, if we can't get the delegates, we have to be honest about that. the one thing about the sanders campaign is the sense of authenticity. so ted did that. ted's a very honest guy, and he was just being candid. you can see the reaction from inside the campaign. they weren't ready to think about this. they weren't ready to consider it. i think senator sanders' wife quickly swatted it down. and so that's the kind of thing that happens when you get the rational kind of thoughtful strategist, who is supposed to be detached a little bit from the campaign, and the emotion of the moment, and the emotion of the moment when the two things collide, you sometimes see this. i think what you're seeing in a statement tonight is a rationale for going forward. but not the same rationale as yesterday. it's incumbent upon the sanders campaign now to figure out if they're going to go forward.
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they're certainly entitled to. how they're going to do that, what tone they're going to take and whether they're going to emphasize as secretary clinton did eight years ago the fact that so much united states democrats that at the end. day we're going to come together. which is something that the sanders campaign has pretty consistently done throughout the campaign so far. and i would expect to see them continue doing that. >> steve mcmahon gets the last word in the war room tonight. thank you all very much. up next we're going to go out on the campaign trail. you're going to hear from nbc's road warriors.
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i applaud senator sanders and his millions of supporters for challenging us to get unaccountable money out of our politics and giving. greater emphasis to closing the gap of inequality. let's go forward. let's win the nomination, and in july, let's return as a unified party! thank you all so much! >> no one knows more about what's happening out there on the campaign trail than our road warriors. they're joining us now from a lonely hotel bar in philadelphia. kristen welker, covering the clinton campaign, jacob from
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msnbc, interviewing delegates to the convention, and kasie hunt covering the stop trump movement. kasie, your next stop is indiana. that's where everyone is going tomorrow. >> that's right, lawrence. although i have to commend our last call was 11:30, an hour ago. they're still here at this bar with us in philadelphia. not quite empty. >> i don't know what they're drinking, but they're hanging out with us. >> we have nailed down if not the delegate count but the last time you can buy a glass of wine here. to go back to the delegate count. this night for donald trump, so overwhelming. right now nbc news totals trump 109 delegates. so well ahead of where all the campaigns -- i was talking to a head of this saying, this is the over/under number for trump. five delegates for john kasich, three for ted cruz, four of your -- >> my favorite.
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it's funny, because it's the exact opposite of the unbound scenario i saw in north dakota and colorado where trump got his clock cleaned by the ted cruz operation that went in there, so surgically struck and found these unbound delegates and brought them over to his side. tonight it seems he's going to get the vast, vast majority of the unbound delegates from the state. >> i've been talking to republicans throughout the night. some of them who are very opposed to a trump nomination. and tonight was the night where they sort of started to say, okay, it looks like this is going to be trump, one official said to me the only person who can stop trump is trump. i wonder what you make of that, kasie, because you've been covering that movement. >> this is a place they clearly decided they weren't going to play in the northeast. they all on background, there's a lot of finger pointing going on, saying, you know what, john kasich wasn't playing here. he was the guy that maybe had a shot. you could see if he had come in here with money, he could potentially move the numbers. the reality is, he didn't have
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any of it. >> why? was it too expensive to go up in the new york media market? is it really -- >> that's crazy. >> it's a challenge here, it's always been getting these republican donors onboard. if you think about it, they all went a year-plus ago, they went in big for jeb bush. they gave millions to the right to rise super pac. it went nowhere. they've watched one candidate after of the other after the other fall to donald trump. and so now there is this group of them, they're funding our principles pac, and some of the other groups who really -- you saw it a little bit about charles koch who said hillary clinton might actually be better. that said, i'm not going to try to help. those are the kinds of people that want to stop trump. of course, that's the opposite of where the republican electorate is right now. one of the things that's also shifted here against the stop trump movement is the professionalization of the trump campaign. and their search for delegates. when you were on the ground
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talking to these people, did you have a sense of that today? >> absolutely. many of the unbound delegates that i talked to actually got face time with donald trump, which is so different, again, from colorado and north dakota, where the bulk of the unbound delegates was. and you saw it tonight. when we were sitting with chuck, you heard donald trump talk up there about how there's a moral obligation for the unbound delegates to support the winner of the state. last week, or the week before he said this was a broken system. he's talking about how now there is just some responsibility to these unbound delegates. >> one of the things that struck me today is that you really got the sense that there was disorganization within the stop trump movement. and this alliance that came together between cruz and kasich. it seemed like they were on two different pages. they wanted to stop trump. but they didn't exactly have the same method of going about it. and i think that that hurt them. and it confused voters. you got the sense from voters that they didn't like that. that they were playing with the -- >> people were switching from
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cruz, most likely, to donald trump. i was told tonight by some unbound delegates. on your point, i wanted to ask you since you've been covering this so closely, who is stop trump? i know the hash tag. i know there are some people somewhere, are they having rallies, people in the streets with signs? i haven't seen them. >> i have to say i've known many of the folks in the stop trump movement for a long time. they've been forces. not quite exactly the republican establishment, but certainly pieces of it. some of them have obviously worked for the previous campaigns. but the movement itself has sort of been undercut by the same thing that had kept these candidates from getting together. it's all these disparate groups. the one thing i will say is a lot of the women operatives i talked to in the republican party, it's relatively small but growing group of people, they're
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pretty tight knit. they are the ones i will say have the most heart in the stop trump movement. i've heard them say, my women friend colleagues, they're not going to be willing to work for donald trump. >> i think the question becomes, is it too late to be linked? trump swept tonight. his victories were resounding. >> are they doing this because they truly believe they can stop donald trump or be able to say, pat on the back, i was part of the never trump movement, at least i can put it on my business card or resume or whatever. >> i met with the republicans for a meeting last week as well, where i expected to find a lot more stop trump people than i was actually able to locate. and i think that that's what you had going on. and i'm wondering if this applies to delegates, too. katy tur copies trump, made mention earlier today, the food brought in by the trump operatives, this is how they were wooing these gathering of delegates and whatever. how many of the undeclared delegates are holding out to go
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to mir a lago? >> i think the poll -- one of them told me tonight, he was waiting to hear from the campaign. >> i think what we saw with stop trump and some of the gop candidates is they waited a little too late. that's one thing secretary clinton is not doing. we're already seeing her pivot to donald trump, taking him on affirmatively. when we come back, we'll talk more about that. >> kristen, we'll be right back with more from the road warriors. but first, a look at tonight's delegate math. nbc news decision desk has decided that we can allocate tonight 193 delegates to hillary clinton, 132 delegates to bernie sanders. 59 delegates yet to be assigned. on the republican side, at this hour, the latest calculations are, donald trump getting 109 delegates tonight.
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john kasich picking up five. ted cruz picking up three. there are only four more delegates to be assigned based on tonight's voting.
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when we began this campaign, we were about 3% in the national polls. we were about 60 points behind secretary clinton. well, a lot has happened in the last year. >> a lot has happened tonight, hours after saying that tonight, the sanders campaign virtually conceded in a written statement that the nomination is now beyond senator sanders' reach. they say they will stay in the campaign in order to influence the platform at the democratic convention. the big winners tonight, donald trump and hillary clinton. we go back now to our road
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warriors. jacob, it's all about the delegates now for donald trump. >> no doubt about that, lawrence. we've seen an amazing shift in strategy on the donald trump campaign. i've seen this happen just over the course of the last few months, few weeks from north dakota to colorado. i was saying to kristen and kasie earlier, i guess when paul manafort came onboard is there was this idea that you can't get beat so badly with the unbound delegates. it's amazing to see the shift in that short amount of time. now donald trump is basically mathematically put the race out of reach. just like hillary clinton on the democratic side. >> right, hillary clinton has practically put this race out of reach. and as lawrence was just saying, we got the statement tonight from senator sanders that sounded a lot like a concession, saying he was shifting from the nomination to fighting to impact what the democrats are fighting for in a general election. the platform. and so what we're going to be watching for is his tone tomorrow on the campaign trail. is he going to attack her, is he going to scale back the attacks.
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that's what the clinton campaign has been calling for. by the way, that speech tonight she gave was focused on party unity in a way we haven't heard from her before. >> he said he wants a $15 an hour minimum wage, casting it as an attack on hillary clinton, saying she came late to this. this is what she says now, but not what she believed before. i wonder if he scales that back. and we saw donald trump suddenly encouraging, giving bernie sanders a little push, get in there as a third party, help men out a little bit. >> can you ask you, as someone who knows the bernie sanders world so well. what happens with all of these bernie sanders supporters now? on a night like tonight, you see this and you're sort of like, he's not out, but he's kind of out. what do i do now. >> bernie sanders himself has said this. he has said just because i tell all of these people to get out there and vote for me, instead of hillary clinton, doesn't mean that they're definitely going to do it. i think the big question is
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going to be, if in fact he gets to the point he's conceding, clearly heading into the convention with hillary clinton as the presumptive nominee, is he out there in particular, encouraging all of these people to give her money. because he has really done something unprecedented in modern politics. that is figure out how to run a big-money race on small donations alone. obama got halfway there, but not all the way. >> the clinton campaign is saying look how secretary clinton conducted herself back in 2008, then senator clinton, when she really got onboard with the obama campaign and really rallied her supporters around him. it took her a while to get there. but the clinton campaign is making the argument that's what they're expecting to see from senator sanders. we're seeing what looks like the contours of a general election match-up. donald trump really went after her tonight, essentially saying if she were a woman -- if she weren't a woman, she would only get 5% of the vote. she came out with a tweet responding to that. and she used one of her signature lines which is
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essentially i'm happy to play the woman's card. a statement she made tonight when she gave her victory speech. take a listen. >> the other day mr. trump accused me of playing the, quote, woman card. well, if fighting for women's health care and paid family leave and equal pay is playing the woman card, then deal me in! >> so, we're sort of seeing the battle lines drawn tonight. i think we can expect to see a lot more of this in the coming days and weeks. but again, neither of these candidates have officially clinched the nomination yet, lawrence, so we head on to indiana. >> as usual, the last people in the bar in the campaign trail are our road warriors. kristen welker, kasie hunt, and jacob -- >> we're not going anywhere.
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>> take your time there. no hurry. hang out there. don't hurry. hugh hewitt will join us in a final word about what conservative republicans who want to stop trump have to do now.
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now, the media want to say everything is decided. and the question is, can the state of indiana stop the media's chosen republican candidate.
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>> joining us now to answer that question is hugh hewitt, conservative radio talk show host with the salem radio network. hugh, what do we need to know about republican voters in indiana? how is this state different from what -- from the states we just saw vote tonight? >> i think you're going to see ted cruz make the argument that it is up to indiana republicans to save the republican party. pretty soon you'll hear that donald trump is nelson rockefeller without the art collection. that he is in fact an old-fashioned big government republican from whom the party was wrested in 1964, and against whom ronald reagan campaigned throughout his entire life. ted cruz is going to make an explicit argument, life-long republicans, that their party is at stake. and so i do think that a lot of republicans are out there, and i'm not part of never trump, i'm a neutral, i support the party nominee. i'm not anti-donald trump. but i've talked to so many
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republicans who are afraid of an absolute wipeout with donald trump at the top of the ticket, that i want to be a -- very cautious of bias, which happens in the media, when ted cruz and everybody in wisconsin thought he was winning the nomination. donald trump had a big night tonight. he's got to get another 170 delegates. there's a lot of hand-to-hand delegate combat going on here. but i also think there's going to be a real -- a few weeks here where the republican party says are we going to abandon everything that we have become over the last 30 years, just because donald trump taps into our deep-seeded hostility to the obama administration policies abroad and at home. and secretary clinton's manifest unreadiness to be president. the server controversy, the libya fiasco, egyptian fiasco. it's going to be fascinating. >> hugh, donald trump's problems
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in wisconsin started on conservative talk radio with charlie sykes, local radio host there. does indiana have that same kind of local conservative talk show host who might find himself in that kind of engagement with donald trump? >> no. but they've got quite a lot of mark levine. and mark was making the argument that donald trump is essentially launching a hostile takeover of the republican party. and that ted cruz is the constitutional conservative they've always waited for. so mark is articulating this. but he's articulating it pretty much by himself. what indiana has is mike pence. i'll point out that tonight "national review," the chronicle of all things conservative put out things for pence to get off the fence. i'm staying resolutely on the fence. i don't know if mike pence is going to. but if donald trump gets close to 1,237, you might still see, lawrence, the rules committee
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urge the republican party to reject him. they would certainly sunder the republican party, destroy their opportunity for a win in the fall. but it would nevertheless preserve that deep conservativism that reagan stood for. so i think anything can happen, including a big ted cruz win, outright get to the nomination, or donald trump could give a speech on the supreme court that says here are my ten nominees starting with mike lee, and i'm going to save the court and rebuild the military, trust me. and persuade enough republicans. i don't know. nobody knows. anyone who says they know is lying, larry. >> now you have to tell me what you know about what's going to happen when it all comes to your state. when it comes to california, which is where this is really going to be decided, if donald trump is going to get enough delegates, that's where he's going to have to get them, will he be able to pull that off? >> it's a closed primary, larry. pete wilson hasn't been governor for 12 years, a long time since
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pete's been in power, but nevertheless around schwarzenegger doesn't have any swing with republicans out here. it's up to pete, where does he go. it's a very conservative establishment, in orange county where i am tonight, it's very pro cruz. i went to a cruz event here two weeks ago. there are only 20,000 republicans in the district. so i think cruz does very well in california. especially if he gets some momentum out of indiana. >> that will be the last word for tonight. hugh hewitt, thank you very much. appreciate it. donald trump and house speaker paul ryan will be on "morning joe." stay with us. msnbc's coverage continues after this.
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what a night it's been so far. again, it's been billed as easily the third or fourth super tuesday we've had in just this election season, but here's the big news. five for five on the republican side for donald trump. we'll hear from him in just a moment coming out of our live coverage of donald trump from the trump tower. on the democratic side, all but rhode island for hillary clinton. there we go.

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