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tv   The Place for Politics 2016  MSNBC  April 30, 2016 7:00am-8:01am PDT

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we're not good. we're total heroes. scale on demand with the number one company in cloud infrastructure. trying to break through. we're watching this live. they are breaking through the barrier and have broken down, rushing into the front of the hyatt regency. we are following them now. here come the police. >> that was the scene at anti-trump protesters fanned out outside the california republican convention yesterday' ahead of donald trump's appearance there. good morning. i'm joy reid. those protests are today's top line. the trump campaign went to great lengths to avoid that scene, taking a back entrance while demonstrators chanted get him out and tried to force their way into the building. >> that was not the easiest
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entrance i have ever made. my wife called, she said there are helicopters following you and we did and then we went under a fence and through a fence and oh, boy. felt like i was crossing the border, actually. you know? it's true. i was crossing the border. but i got here. >> let's bring in my guests this morning. fernand and joan, anan and heidi harris of the heidi harris show. first, ali joins us from california. abo about that scene yesterday, massive protests at the trump campaign. set the scene for us about how big the protests were and sort of if you had a chance to speak with any of those protesters. >> well, it was the second protest we saw in 24 hours, trump campaigning in california. he actually weighed in this morning since the protest
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yesterday saying the quote unquote, protesters were thugs, criminals and professionals and professionals is a label we have heard him tag protesters at his rallies with for some many months now. he really believes that these are people who are in some ways paid to be here. he tells the story sometimes on the trail that some of these people don't even know why they are out this protesting him, just that people told them to go out there. he really believes they are not necessarily real protesters but quote unquote, protesters. that's what he tweeted this morning. to just draw a bit of a contrast between the protests we saw here versus the protests we saw the night before, in costa mesa it was nighttime right after a rally and protesters were really much more violent. we came outside and saw people fighting amongst themselves, protesters versus trump supporters as they were coming out of the rally. of course there were people throwing water bottles at police. one police car even got a window smashed in. there were protesters jumping on the hood of it. contrast that with yesterday, when we were here in san francisco, it was people who were really trying to stop trump from speaking, similar to what we saw in chicago. the protesters here didn't
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necessarily succeed but like you said earlier, they did succeed in making him take a kind of circuitous route to get into the convention. protesters were happy to see that. some of them had seen the clips. others were out on megaphones saying if you haven't seen that, you should watch it. they seemed pleased about that. there was an attempt to physically get inside by the protesters. a lot of them stayed for long after trump was gone really just to say this is not the bay area they feel should be represented by trump coming here. they really felt his rhetoric, especially on immigration, a hot button issue in california, was not something they supported. they were out here to protest that. >> yeah. all right. thank you very much. appreciate it. let's turn to the panel. i will start with you, fernand, on this, because you have donald trump who set the stage for his campaign with anti-hispanic rhetoric specifically about mexican-americans calling them rapists. the reaction we are seeing from
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the latino community has been from african-americans, too, but that comment by trump, it was like crossing the border. he's not trying to tamp this down. >> he always says in regards to his wall it will get ten feet higher every time the mexican government said it's not going to pay for it. any time he says that, what's clear is he is not making a play for the multi-cultural vote of any kind. he's trying to maximize a certain segment of voters because the fact he would go into california and say these type of inflammatory comments, the state, by the way, california, which had this experience with pete wilson before. it's deja vu all over again although i think we will see the pete wilson effect from the '94 period with the proposition over there now have a national effect. i think the republican party is going to be feeling the sting of this come november. >> this is now the way it is, when trump -- when donald trump holds a rally or an event, there are going to be protests but as this campaign goes out west, as we get into the fall, we are really looking at a spectacle
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that almost looks like sort of eastern european right wing nationalism. the scenes you see there, in the united states. >> well, this is an unfortunate two-layer cake. there's a spectacle kind of on top. but beneath the spectacle seems to be a lot of drama and pain and anger that is making people behave like this, making people attracted to whoever the angriest voices are in the election. i think we need to really look at pictures like that and ask is this the country we desire to be living in. and when he says it was like crossing the border, to me -- >> let me jump in really quick. we need to fix your microphone. we are not hearing you as well as we should. they will work on your mike. joan, i will pivot to you on this. one of the reasons people are most troubled by trump, he's getting a reaction to it because
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of that. this idea trump will be trump 2.0, that clearly isn't true. >> he's clearly not going to change. all we saw this week in addition to that awful comment about the border is opening a new front, the gender front, where he's playing on ethnic resentment, white tribal resentment, now going towards male resentment. i think there's an element of what he's saying about hillary clinton that is designed, in the way we have the white backlash to immigrants, that he's trying to gin up a male backlash to these entitled women who go around playing the woman card, who take advantage of their gender in all sorts of ways. it's a bizarro world that most of us, those of us at this table and most people in the world don't recognize, but there's a segment of his base that hears that and is like that's right, that is what they're doing. >> heidi, not that we will have you represent his base today on the show, but as the conservative on the program today, this is a problem for
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conservativism to be identified with this person. >> i think a lot of people i know who are conservative don't support trump. i know a lot of people who do and i don't understand it because i'm not a trump supporter. i think when it comes to the woman card, i think he's right about hillary clinton, if you put a person with her experience and kree dncredentials there, i weren't a woman she wouldn't be getting the votes she's getting. i don't agree with all this rhetoric obviously on some of the things he said. it's amazing to me that latinos would be complaining about illegal immigration and wanting to open the borders when they are the ones who will suffer the most and be hurt the most in the job market. going back to your comments about the protesters, there are people out there who are professional protesters, who have admitted they have answered things like ads on craigslist for protesters. a lot of them are being paid. now, there are those who really care about the issue but it's true, a lot of people financing them to be out there and protest but god bless america, they got the right to do it if they don't like a candidate. >> that's an interesting comment
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given the fact the entire tea party movement was based on very well-financed protests with professionally printed signs and pretending to be grassroots. but this accusation that essentially the hispanics are just not understanding their own best interests in supporting immigration reform, i'm perplexed. i will let you answer it. >> that's certainly not what the polls suggest. poll after poll over the last 20 years says the hispanic community is united as is the hispanic electorate. they want comprehensive immigration reform and understa the role undocumented immigrants are playing in the economy. this country's economic output would be significantly lesser if we had to deport the 11 million. that's the conversation no one wants to talk about. but watching those images, i'm less and less concerned about what people think is the central question which is who's going to win the presidential election. the more thoughtful question really needs to become in this polarized america, is the losing side going to accept the
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legitimacy of the winning side. i ask every day that question. less and less, i find answers that make me feel that's going to be the case in the united states. >> we have you back, and i will let you take up that question, whether or not we have a consensus governing culture anymore. >> i think that's a beautiful and important question and i would take it one step further. in addition to accepting the legitimacy of whatever happened, how do we get back together as a country after this. we have fallen out of love with each other as a country, fallen out of knowledge of each other. the level of hatred is not just for these candidates and against each other, it is each to each in this country. and we are living in these idealogical tribes, we are geographically more segregated than ever. the richest 1% of us now have 14 more thanksgivings than the poorest 1% of us. we are living with a separateness that i don't think a republic can tolerate very long.
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>> meanwhile, we have somebody like marco rubio appearing to warm up to this idea of a donald trump presidency. i don't know what that's about. >> he was never trump. now he's never mind what i said before. >> i do have to jump in on this question of accepting the legitimacy of the winner. i don't believe that republicans accepted the legitimacy of bill clinton. there was an attempt to undermine bill clinton from the beginning and that's what impeachment was about. they certainly haven't accepted the legitimacy of barack obama, elected twice. he had a backlash on the night of his inauguration in 2009 that continued through the present day. there is a really worrisome pre-trump, this pre-dates donald trump, tendency in this party to negate election results when they don't agree with them. i think it's only going to be worse this time around, assuming trump is the nominee and he is defeated. if he's not the nominee, that's a whole problem for the party, the republican party. >> heidi, you are one of the people that is a talker, that is responsible for sort of driving
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the discourse on the right. will you accept the legitimacy of a democratic president, if that is the result in november, and encourage your listeners to do the same? >> i think everybody accepts legitimacy of a president. they may not like who he or she is. i'm not going to like it if hillary clinton's the next president. i'm not going to be thrilled if it's trump either, by the way. i think he would be better than hillary. that's the way our country is. politics are messy. no matter who's in the white house, there will probably be half the country who won't like it. that's what makes america great. by the way, donald trump gave a foreign policy speech where he talked about how he's going to make a foreign policy that everyone's going to agree with. that's never happened in our entire history. so it's ridiculous to think we are all going to come together, all going to agree and everybody will have the same interests. that doesn't happen. it hasn't happened i an office and it sure as hell isn't going to happen in america. >> it's one thing to have robust disagreements and another to de
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he looked presidential. he looked serious. he looked controlled. and overall i thought it was a good presentation. the speech itself was a very serious speech. i think you are going find it ridiculed by some of the washington establishment, in part because it challenges so many of their assumptions. >> newt gingrich, everybody. joining me is e.j. dion, author of "why the right went wrong." i will start with you. i have a theory. i want to play for you what donald trump said, where his criteria for how he would pick a
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running mate. we know ted cruz has pretended he will be the nominee and picked a running mate. we will play what donald trump said this is his criteria for a running mate. >> the main quality that you want is somebody that can be a great president. if something happens to you. then i would want somebody that could help me with government. so most likely that would be a political person. you want somebody that could help you with legislation, getting it through, et cetera, et cetera. we will probably choose somebody that's somewhat political. >> the theory here, my theory, i will own it, donald trump will want to pick somebody who is of washington but seems like he would challenge washington, that has some washington governing experience, has maybe run for president before, that he sees as sort of presidential in his view, but that wouldn't overshadow him by being either younger than him or somehow more charismatic than him. to me, newt gingrich fits the criteria. what do you think? >> well, one thing i do know, first of all, i have no clue as to whom donald trump is going to
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pick for vp and i couldn't imagine those guys competing with each other a lot. what really strikes me is that i think newt gingrich sees himself in donald trump. if you go back, in 1978, he gave what became a famous speech to college republicans and he said republicans are encouraged to be neat, obedient, loyal, all those boy scout virtues that are great around the campfire but have nothing to do with politics. you are fighting a war, newt gingrich said. that's the way donald trump does politics. newt later said i'm a tougher partisan than any of them have seen. i will take risks to get it done. again, i think newt sees himself in donald trump. i think yeah, i can see trump being very attracted to gingrich. gingrich is a fascinating guy to talk to. i'm not sure that gingrich would add a lot of popular support to
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that ticket, because i'm not sure where newt's numbers are. but yeah, i can see newt playing some role in a trump presidency. >> interesting, because newt gingrich came in with the republican revolution in '94. that was his sort of version of the tea party movement, taking over the party. and he also is in many ways as whacky as donald trump. listen to newt gingrich talking about donald trump's foreign policy, giving him support for what a lot of people ridiculed, this foreign policy speech. >> is he a hawk or a dove? i don't think he's either one. he wants to be armed as heavily as any hawk but wants to be very cautious and not use that force very often. he wants to negotiate very aggressively on trade but he wants to be very careful in negotiating, for example, with russia and china because they have nuclear weapons. he has great respect for how dangerous nuclear weapons are. >> he's an owl.
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>> i really hadn't figured that out before. so glad to know it. i think, look, they would make a great ticket. you are right, i think he's a proto-trump. he brought a level of nastiness, let's tell it like it is and then some into american politics. a very spiteful, personal and direct kind of undermining of your opponent, not merely my good friend from texas, but you know, the other. so they fit together well. i would like to see it because they would have six marriages between them and that will take the issue of the clinton marriage completely off the table in the fall. >> they are similar in that sense. the kind of politics we were talking about previously that is this bare knuckles, don't accept that the president is the president, take him down at all costs rather than attempting to govern with him for a couple years before the next election, that is gingrich politics. it's trump politics. it does seem to work. >> i hope congressman gingrich
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remembered to flush after he finished shooting that video. that was the weirdest i have ever seen. look, i think when you look at n newt gingrich, what i'm hearing is it's not vice president but chief of staff they are looking at. as chief of staff in a trump presidency it would be a brilliant brick because he will have to work with a republican congress if trump wins, by definition it means congress stays republican. he's going to need an idea guy, a guy who understands the way washington works. i look at a potential trump vp pick, i continue to come back to chris christie. the first establishment republican who came out, that follows the bill clinton mantra of kind of doubling down on your strengths. it represents also a state in the northeast that's the tell it like it is style. i keep going back to chris christie as the donald trump selection for vice president. >> god knows he suffered enough. god knows he earned it through suffering alone. heidi, let's game out from the point of view of the people that are listening to you and you are talking with every day, who do
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people want? who would work for the base of the republican party as a companion to the donald trump brand? >> you know, that's a good question. we haven't really talked about it too much because i don't know who he would pick. i think e.j. is probably right that it probably will be a chief of staff position. he will have all the charm of doug, in kevin spacey's administration, i can see that. but i could see donald trump, whoever he picks, he's right, he will need somebody who understands how it works back there, because he really doesn't know. donald trump's not an idiot, obviously, but he understands how to do business and do deals but he doesn't have a clue how things work on capitol hill. he's going to need somebody who does that. gingrich might be a perfect person for that. i think he would have to pick somebody else for vp. gingrich will not be second banana. that's just not his deal. to your point, he will need somebody who won't overshadow him or outshine him. i don't think gingrich is the right person for that particular thing. i think chief of staff would probably be a better position. >> i'm interested now, you have
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reporting to bring to the table, who are you hearing as far as potential person -- you already said who you think it will be. let me go back to you, e.j., on this question of, i think it is highly unlikely donald trump will be able to significantly improve his standing with most of the voting public by the fall. so the other question is who would be willing to put their brand on the line for him? chris christie probably would be because he's so damaged his brand already. >> you know, i watch john kasich and have had this sense he was very reluctant to go after trump for most of this, and then he kind of sabotaged the deal that he had made with cruz and said no, i want people to keep voting for me. i don't know if kasich would have all that much to lose. he's not on the ballot this fall and ohio is in play so i wonder if trump goes somewhat conventional and by the way, i still haven't conceded this race is over. but we are looking forward to that. if ted cruz can pick a vice
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president running as far behind as he is, why not talk about trump. so kasich or some more conventional politician is the kind of person i'm thinking of. >> yeah. >> we haven't given you a chance to speculate. >> i think kasich would actually be a brilliant pick. a very good pick for him. >> the question then becomes, heidi, i will go to you on this, the idea for most people that either donald trump or kasich is something of a moderate, i think is anathema to most people. they look at kasich's record in ohio, vis a vis things like planned parenthood. he's a man of the right. you look at the rhetoric coming out of donald trump, there's nothing moderate about that but they are seen as being to the left as most conventional conservatives. if you put two people like that on the movement, what does that do to the net movement conservative base? >> the people that really like donald trump and i know a lot who do, like the fact he's an outsider which is not entirely true, they think he will try to get things done and bring jobs
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back and they believe about building a wall and all that. but kasich will bring ohio and if you don't get ohio you're not going to win. a lot of people i know on the left have said really since day one, kasich's the one guy i could get behind. i don't think he's conservative enough for me but i'm more conservative than most of the country and i understand that. if donald trump's strategic and i think he is a strategic thinker he probably should pair up with john kasich. a lot of people like him, he's been around a very long time. before he was governor he served many many years in congress. he's a very smart guy who brings a lot to the table that donald trump really needs. it would fill some holes. >> we haven't talked about it much but the evangelical wing of the party which has felt neglected, you are seeing their anger play out in some of the bathroom obsessions and other things. kasich is an evangelical, very strong on that issue. we don't talk about it much but he is. our guests will stick around. up next, the year that president obama took down donald trump at the white house
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it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. tonight is the annual white house correspondents dinner that, special night when the political and entertainment elite come together to hear the commander in chief become the comedian in chief. larry wil dm momore is the feat entertainer with the task of following president obama who will certainly bring it for his final dinner. one of his likely targets won't be there, donald trump. that might be a good thing for the donald considering the epic burn president obama delivered at the 2011 correspondents dinner. >> no one is happier, no one is prouder to put this birth certificate matter to rest than the donald. and that's because he can finally get back to focusing on the issues that matter like did we fake the moon landing, what
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really happened in roswell, and where are biggy and tupac? >> some speculated that moment five years ago today was the moment that trump decided to make a definite run for the presidency, particularly after president obama gave trump the business over his qualifications. >> obviously we all know about your credentials and breadth of experience. for example, no, seriously, just recently in an episode of "celebrity apprentice" at the steakhouse, the men's cooking team did not impress the judges from omaha steaks and there was a lot of blame to go around, but you, mr. trump, recognized that the real problem was a lack of leadership and so ultimately, you didn't blame little john or meatloaf. you fired gary busey.
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and these are the kind of decisions that would keep me up at night. >> trump's grimace. we now know that something much more serious was actually keeping president obama up that night. the operation that would lead to the killing of al qaeda leader osama bin laden. how would donald trump react to a similar situation? we got some clues this week. we will dive into the trump doctrine. you can see president obama's final white house correspondents dinner tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain... shoots and burns its way into your day, i hear you. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful, i hear you. make sure your doctor hears you too! i hear you because i was there when my dad suffered with diabetic nerve pain. if you have diabetes and burning, shooting pain in your feet or hands, don't suffer in silence! step on up and ask ur doctor about diabetic nerve pain.
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administration. >> lots of people are still talking about donald trump's first serious foreign policy speech this week. let's find out what my panel thinks. back with me is ana, and e.j. and kerry sheffield. i will come to you first. what we are hearing about that speech was that it was written for him by a member of his team and that he then rewrote it. is there any evidence that donald trump has spent a lot of time thinking through the minutae of foreign policy? >> absolutely not. i'm a conservative part of hash tag no more trump. i appreciate he was talking about policy. i would love to have seen this during the past year and a half during this whole process. there were a lot of things i disagreed with. i thought it was naive how he's talking about we have a $1 trillion manufacturing deficit with the rest of the world. talk about the information based deficit which is in our favor by a huge chunk. i think he's so bent on going back into the past and focused
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so much on manufacturing. we are an information based economy. he also hit the president on israel. the fact of the matter is in the debate, he was saying we need to be neutral on this. i just find it was incoherent. he said we need to replace randomness with purpose but later he said we must as a nation be more unpredictable. i found it to be similar to the debate. '. >> on one of the things, speaking to foint point of goin into the past, trump has said he would like to go back to the policy of waterboarding which has been forbidden. take a listen for a moment to former cia director john brennan speaking to richard engel back in april. >> absolutely i would not agree to having any cia officer carrying out waterboarding. >> it's come up recently in politics with some presidential candidates saying that's the first thing they would like to
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bring back. would this organization support that? or even follow that order? >> this organization will do what it can to protect the american public from the attacks from terrorist groups. i will not agree to carry out some of these tactics and techniques that i have heard bandied about because this institution needs to endure. >> that of course is our cia director john brennan saying the cia is not going back into the torture business. here is donald trump doubling down on april 11th on the idea that under his presidency, we would go back to torture. >> they chop off heads and they drown people in cages with 50 in a cage in big steel heavy cages, drop them right into the water, drown people. we can't waterboard and we can't do anything. we are playing on different fields and we have a huge problem with isis which we can't beat and the reason we can't beat them is we won't use strong
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tactics. >> so you know, who would win in that tug-of-war if you had in theory president trump and cia director like john brennan saying we are not doing this? could a president force that issue? >> very interesting, i wrote my column about not just the torture scenario but various scenarios like that where, if he were to win, and propose some of the kind of extralegal things that he has proposed, what would happen. do we think some of these things have a chance, would the civil service push back, and the best answer i got from most people is in general, the civil service could as you saw there or appointees refuse to do things. the scenario where everybody says we really would be in danger of a kind of slide into extralegal authority is if something terrible were to happen and there's emergency and there's panic and there's particularly in the foreign policy realm and the terrorist realm, and a lot of those same people who are saying you know what, none of this is ever going to happen said all bets are off
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if something like that were to happen. >> e.j., that is of the many, many risks of taking a chance on somebody like donald trump and considering him to be commander in chief, the fact that he's so cavalierly saying well, based on how brutal isis is, we are going to go back to torture and policies like that, isn't that the big risk that if he were to win and there was a terrible terrorist attack or something that frightened the american people, congress would lay down for it, the civil service would not stop him, that you actually could see a return to those kinds of policies because people are simply afraid? >> yeah, no, i think it's very scary, the way he talks so loosely about torture. i thought carrie made a great point about the incoherance. he basically wants to replace randomness with unpredictability. what the heck is that? i was talking to a very smart republican foreign policy advisor who said the first half of the speech was a fairly coherent critique of president
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obama that's pretty standard republican fare but the second half was a real mish-mash. he was trying to signal that he's a foreign policy realist. there's a great realist touchstone, john quincy adams line that we do not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. and trump essentially echoed that in his speech. we do not go abroad in search of enemies. but trump proposes a kind of magical realism. when you go through that speech, everything is a deal. everything is about negotiations. every problem we have could be solved because trump would negotiate better deals. that's not how foreign policy works. the other thing is his closeness to russia. we talked about the gingrich-trump bromance. there is a trump-putin bromance and he talked again about easing tensions with russia. in any other campaign, a republican cozying up to a dictator or semi-dictator in
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russia would be a big issue. it hasn't hurt trump so far. >> not only that, if you want to talk about unconventional thinking, i want to play you what donald trump said to chris matthews on an issue that really should frighten people, his thinking is truly unconventional. this this' is trump talking about the use of nuclear weapons in europe. >> nuclear should be off the table but would there be a time when it could be used? possibly. >> can you tell the middle east we are not using a nuclear weapon? >> i would never say that. i would never take my cards off the table. >> how about europe snnchlg'. >> i'm not taking it off the table. i am not taking cards off the table. >> why has that not been disqualifying among republican voters? >> many number of things should have been disqualifying in my opinion but people are angry and upset. i understand that. this is an emotional choice, not a rational choice.
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he said war and aggression will not be my first instinct. everything we have heard from him leading up to this was the exact opposite talking about burning people, bombing and killing isis, using tactics that are against all this we have in the international courts. he said we need to begin working very closely with our allies in the muslim world. how are you going to do that if you want to ban 1.6 billion people from our country? i just find it to be incredibly contradictory, everything he was saying. >> interestingly enough, he is the guy who was saying he was going against the neo-conservative bush regime but the policies he's been espousing when he's being spontaneous are just as aggressive if not more so than george w. bush. >> whenever there is an opportunity for aggression, he takes it. but he is also very suspicious of american power and in many ways wants to pull back and doesn't support the kind of freedom agenda of that administration and many others.
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what i think is very interesting is although he wants to make america great again, some of us by the way think it's pretty great and has been always, i don't think he fully understands how that greatness was purchased and the level of involvement in the world, the level not just of invading countries and things like that which are probably some of the worst things we do but the boring, unsung things we do all around the world that have created a world in which we desire to live. a lot of what he talked about in that speech that was less headline-getting was essentially doing less of that stuff. i don't think he cares about foreign aid. i don't think he cares about alliances like nato. i think it's really worth thinking what kind of world would the world be? >> i think it was a strong point actually, the point i do agree with, where he talked about the fact nato, only four out of 28 members are doing the required spending. >> most americans agree with having nato do more. so much more to unpack here. thank you so much to carrie
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sheffield and e.j.dionne. up next, bernie sanders' end game. what he wants from hillary clinton and what she might be willing to give. you show up. you stay up. you listen. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future, we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped families just like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready, start with us. doing the right thing has never been easier. legalzoom. legal help is here.
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i applaud senator sanders and his millions of supporters for challenging us to get unaccountable money out of our politics and giving greater emphasis to closing the gap of inequality, and i know together, we will get that done. >> hillary clinton's olive branch to bernie sanders voters came just a day after sanders made it clear his support would
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come with conditions. >> secretary clinton wins, it is incumbent upon her to tell millions of people who right now do not believe in establishment politics or establishment economics who have serious misgivings about a candidate who has received millions of dollars from wall street and other special interests. she has got to go out to you and to millions of other people and say yeah, i think the united states should join the rest of the industrialized world and take on the private insurance companies and the greed of the drug companies and pass a medicare for all. >> joining me are nina turner, surrogate for the bernie sanders campaign and joan walsh is with me. how is that not true? how would it not be hillary clinton's obligation to make the sale to the voters who have preferred bernie sanders? >> she very much does have to make the sale. she realizes that, and i think she will. the area where we might have
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disagreement is there are people, many clinton supporters, and i'm one of them, feel that senator sanders, too, is going to engage if this is indeed over which maybe it's not, but if it is, when it is, there will be a negotiation over the platform because there should be. he has brought great issues, he has brought great energy, he has pulled her in some ways to the left, certainly on the fight for 15, the movement and senator sanders i think are bringing her towards 15. i think he does have to play a role. i think there is, nina and i are friends and we talked about it, there's a level of bitterness on both sides but there's a real element of sanders support. it's small but vocal. they use talking points that come from republicans. they talk about benghazi. there's a level of hatred of secretary clinton that is irrational and wrong and i think i do believe senator sanders is eventually going to have to sing her praises, not merely say she would be better than donald trump or ted cruz.
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i think that's going to happen. it happens naturally in campaigns. we remember '08 where it seemed like it would never happen. but those two individuals got together and did the right thing. these two individuals will, too. >> i'm wondering if it would be more difficult i this case, because there is, as joan says, it's not everybody but there is even an element of hoping there will be an fbi indictment. that has actually been written in the past week saying maybe the fbi will safe the country from hillary clinton. that element does exist. if bernie sanders was to go from arguing that hillary clinton essentially has disqualified herself with her speeches and closeness to wall street, to then singing her praises, wouldn't he simply discredit himself with his own former supporters? >> the senator has to be genuine to who he is. i think the clinton camp has to understand that. i have said this many times. he's not just her sparring partner. he got into this race because he saw a need from his vantage point. if he believed that secretary clinton was the one, so to speak, he would not have gotten into this race. people have to understand that
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as well, that he wants to make sure we do get that 15, that we do make sure that health care is a moral obligation in this country and he's not talking about incrementalism. he still has to be unique to who he is. >> given the fact, if he does not become the nominee, why should she be belated to adopt his platform when he didn't win with that platform? >> this is for the people. people are crying out. some of these folks are not voting. we have to get more folks in the voting arena. democrats would do well to do more of that. i haven't seen a lot of voter push this general election which pains me a lot because democrats talk the talk. we need to walk the walk every election cycle. i will say this. there is a movement, we look at polling, people do believe we need health care as a moral right. they believe young people are saddled with trillions of dollars in debt. people understand, whether democrat or republican, we have bailed out wall street. we bailed out wall street with our tax dollars. if we can bail out wall street,
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senator sanders is absolutely right, why can't we make the requisite investments in main street? he will find a way but it's not over yet. i got to say thchlt. >> we understand. i want to play hillary clinton talking to jake tapper yesterday making her case for sort of how this should play out from foith point of view of democrats. >> i certainly look forward to working with senator sanders in the leadup to the convention, in the leadup to the platform that will represent the democratic party. it will be a progressive platform. i have run on a progressive agenda. i really welcome his ideas and his supporters' passion and commitment, because the most important thing for us is to win in november. >> so you have the element of repeating progressive over and over. when george w. bush was like performance results but you have this question of the platform. at the end of the day, whatever is in the democratic platform is not necessarily dispositive of what the next president does. is it sort of kind of a head
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fake to say we'll put some things if you like in the platform because then the candidate herself can just continuing doing what she was doing? >> she and senator sanders do have a lot in common. she believes health care is a moral right. she believes in universal health care. she has a different idea about how we get there, that's true. but they can work together on negotiating drug prices. they can work together on introducing a public option into the affordable care act. president obama wanted it. he didn't get it. she wants it. that's an incremental way to get toward medicare for all. i would love to see them talk about letting people buy into medicare. she's not going to go -- if his support is contingent on medicare for all immediately, that's a non-starter. but there are lots of things they agree on that would make an enormous difference to the american people that are not merely throw it in the platform and i don't care about it. she does. >> i want to play bern sauie sas
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in ohio. take a listen. >> the democratic party up to now has not been clear about which side they are on on the major issues facing this country. our job is not just to revitalize the democratic party. our job is to revitalize american democracy. >> i was calling for a different one. that's a different take that i don't think everyone can agree on that. that is sanders really taking on the party he's running in. is it helpful for the end game for democrats to hear him talking about their party that way? how does that help healing the party snnchlg par party? >> we keep talking about the party when we should be talking about the people. the party exists to uplift and make this world a better place through public policy for the people. the senator has the right to challenge because so many democrats are republican-light. what are you? if we are standing up for the values of universal health care,
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if we assembbelieve people dese living wage, if we move them in the general but they are not good enough to vote in the primary which bothers me but polling shows clearly that independents, you can run on a progressive strong left message and that independents respond to that. i don't think he's not anti-democratic party. he's challenging the party. >> i know we are near the end but this election requires turning out our base. democrats are important. to talk about democrats as though they are not important -- >> no, democrats are important. >> it's problematic. >> but our values are more important. our democratic values are wonderful and important. >> we will end on that note. i will echo what nina said. voter registration is something the democrats should concentrate a lot more on. we can have a whole other discussion about that. they will be back in our next hour and you will get more nina and joan. coming up, playing the woman card.
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plus the veep stakes. and i will hardball with chris matthews. its way into your day, i hear you. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful, i hear you. make sure your doctor hears you too! i hear you because i was there when my dad suffered with diabetic nerve pain. if you have diabetes and burning, shooting pain in your feet or hands, don't suffer in silence! step on up and ask your doctor about diabetic nerve pain. te 'em cedric sent you.
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