tv MSNBC Live MSNBC May 3, 2016 8:00am-9:01am PDT
ask your doctor about viagra. good morning, everyone. i'm tamron hall coming to you live from our msnbc election headquarters. voting is now under way in indiana where donald trump and hillary clinton are looking for wins that would make their path to the nominations unstoppable. polls are open until 6:00 p.m. local time in that state that straddles the eastern and central time zones. as indiana votes, a new attack this morning from donald trump. his focus, ted cruz. trump cited a recent "national enquirer" story that claims the senator's father was with john f. kennedy's assassin, handing
out pro-fidel castro pamphlets shortly before the president was murdered in 1963. >> his father was with lee harvey oswald prior to oswald's being shot. i mean the whole thing is ridiculous. what is this, right prior to his being shot. and nobody even brings it up. they don't even talk about that. that was reported and nobody talks about it. but i think it's horrible. what was he doing with lee harvey oswald shortly before the death, before the shooting? it's horrible. >> a cruz campaign spokesperson had told the "miami herald" that the story was garbage. the senator has a campaign stop in evansville, indiana, later this hour. we'll bring you his live comments when cruz starts to speak. meantime, by this time tomorrow the battle for both party's nominations could all be over. >> indiana is becoming very important. this time, you folks belong where you belong.
it's called importantville, right? >> we don't want a president who is rash, who is hot-headed, who is liable to explode at the latest twitter storm. >> hey, indianapolis, you ready for a political revolution? >> while those three were speaking last night, a very candid moment involving the democratic front-runner, hillary clinton, as she campaigns for next week's primary in west virginia. clinton apologizing to an out of work coal miner after the father of three confronted her about comments she made at a town hall earlier this year. >> we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business. >> i just want to know how you can say you're going to put a lot of coal miners out of jobs and then come in here and tell us how you're going to be our friend. >> i do feel a little bit sad and sorry that i gave folks the reason or the excuse to be so upset with me, because that is not what i intended at all.
what i was saying is that the way things are going now, we will continue to lose jobs. i didn't mean that we were going to do it. >> meantime, new this morning, take a look at this, the latest nbc news survey monkey poll showing the general election matchup. right now donald trump has narrowed, according to this poll, the gap between hillary clinton to six points from 12 points a month ago. our poll also shows trump's support among registered republicans nationwide has grown to 56% from 35% at the beginning of the year. now, the republican front-runner is off the campaign trail today awaiting tonight's results. he's in new york. ted cruz is staying in indiana. hillary clinton holds those events in west virginia and she's also going to ohio. bernie sanders is focusing on kentucky, which holds its primary in two weeks. we've got it all covered for you, as usual, with our nbc and msnbc correspondents on the ground. tony dokoupil is live at a polling location in fishers,
indiana. that is a republican stronghold. the demographics of that area considered to be one of the richest, most educated areas of the state. tony, what else can you tell us regarding what you're hearing? we see the line there behind you. >> reporter: i can tell you it's extremely busy here this morning. it's 11:00 and it should be a quiet moment but instead there are hundreds of people in loin here and there are thousands already today and thousands more to come. more republican votes are expected to be cast here than any other location in the entire state. so the key questions are should this county, which should be kasich country, will people agree to the cruz and kasich aclie allian alliance, or will trump be successful here. he also recognizes if he wants to win statewide he's got to take the overwhelming majority of the republican votes in this area. he had a rally in this area yesterday. he's got a campaign office in nearby carmel. so both sides going at it.
while i have you here, i want to mention also the rafael cruz comments. donald trump is bringing up ted cruz's father. i was at an event last week where rafael cruz addressed a church audience and took on the jfk arguments. he said it doesn't even look like me and made the direct attack saying donald trump would not defend the traditional family. so that kind of line may be why donald trump is bringing up rafael cruz today. also worth noting, this is a catholic church, a religious area. voters are coming in here and wrestling with the economic support that they might have on the donald trump side with some of their core values, which may bring them toward a cruz presidency. so big decisions to be made today and a lot of action. i can't really emphasize enough, this is 11:00 a.m., this is not even the lunch rush. back to you, tamron. >> that is quite a scene out there. we will see what happens in that important area of the state. nbc's ron mott is in krcrown point, indiana, at the lake county fairgrounds there.
not the same crowd that we just saw with tony's live shot, but what are you hearing? >> reporter: well, tamron, we're in the cavernous building here on the fairgrounds. i can tell you we've got three generations back here. a first-time voter in the maroon with the ponytail so it's great to see three members, three generations represented in that one family. this is largely a blue county. barack obama carried it almost 2-1 in the last presidential election. this little pocket that we have found is mostly red voters we're finding, so we've spoken to a lot of donald trump supporters here, a ted cruz supporter here. you can see down the table this is where folks are coming in to get their ballots. there are seven or eight precincts in this location. one thing that's interesting that we can tell you about, woe spoke to an elections official just a few moments before we went to air. typically in early voting and absentee ballots, it skews, 5-1, 6-1 but this year it's 2-1 so
there's a lot of energy on the republican side for this primary today. we'll have to see what these numbers look like when the polls close. we are in the central time zone so this is 7:00 on the east coast when these polls will close. >> thank you very much. let's now turn to nbc's jacob rascon who's covering the trump campaign and joins us live from carmel, indiana, where the republican front-runner held rallies yesterday. as we reported, jacob, he's focused on new york as we will all be watching the results come in. woe may hear trump say it's over tonight and ted cruz, john kasich need to get out. >> reporter: right. and now you have this thing that trump is bringing up today. it's a very interesting story. this started when rafael cruz, ted cruz's father, tried to make the case for his son. in a facebook video he said that he urged every member of the body of christ, as he put it, to vote for his son. now, trump was asked about that this morning and trump said, oh, it's disgraceful that he would do that, that he's allowed to do that. and then trump added, by the
way, how come nobody is talking about this "national enquirer" story that links ted cruz's father to lee harvey oswald and then it took off from there. this is a conspiracy theory that's been floating around for a couple of weeks. trump supporters on twitter tweeting a photo that appears to show lee harvey oswald in the months before the jfk assassination with rafael cruz. this against the backdrop of this very important primary. this is a very, very critical primary, of course, for ted cruz which his campaign, boy the way, has called that story that donald trump brought up garbage. now you have donald trump leading by double digits in our poll, which could spell really a cakewalk for him to win a majority of delegates. so behind us you have the campaign headquarters near indianapolis. we've been talking to volunteers coming in and out. they're excited to go out and knock on doors even in the cold and sometimes it's been raining. a group of folks that are just very excited.
they feel, they say, that this is the turning point. that after indiana it will just be trump versus hillary clinton. tamron. >> jacob, it's interesting to see the sports legends in that state that have lined up for donald trump. we know bobby knight and then we heard from notre dame coach lou holtz who supports trump. i want to play his interesting endorsement of why he believes trump go on to be president. let's play it. >> there's nothing but winners in indiana. the main reason i'm endorsing him, i've played his golf course, i've stayed in his hotel. he does nothing but go first class in everything. he wants this country to be first class as well. >> you know, we've talked a lot about ted cruz and his endorsements seeming lukewarm. you have lou holtz saying i've played at his golf course and i stayed in his hotel as the reason cited for supporting trump. that's pretty interesting. >> reporter: right. a lot of the trump supporters
are very excited about these endorsements from these legendary basketball coaches. it is the hoosier state, after all. and on that note, the ted cruz gaffe, i think from a week ago or maybe a little longer when he called a basketball hoop a basketball ring is sticking. i mean we hear it even this morning on talk radio. they're bringing it up. and that's something that's very small. but in the hoosier state, it could be a big deal. tamron. >> maybe he should have stuck to football, notre dame football versus basketball and he wouldn't have made that mistake, who knows. let's go to hallie jackson who's covering the cruz campaign and joins me live from evansville, indiana. it's such an interesting day. you have ted cruz trying to stay on mark regarding policy and making the distinction as he puts it that donald trump is conning the american public. but ted cruz's dad being dragged into this with this "national enquirer" report that has no proof of being true, but it's what's the headline this
morning. >> reporter: and it's why the campaign, the cruz campaign and aides telling me that it's false, it's cheap, it's meaningless, these comments from donald trump. in their view a desperate way for donald trump to try to get some attention here, calling it basically garbage. and the cruz campaign, you know, pushing back against this on a day when as you note ted cruz would rather be out talking with voters, like the folks that you're seeing here, supporters, about what's happening in indiana. we're taking a look here, he's going to be headed to this barbecue spot in evansville. he'll be speaking with the media and then chatting with people here, trying to get some kind of momentum ahead of tonight. when you look at the polling, it is not expected to be a good night for ted cruz. so the question for him now, what happens when he turns the corner tomorrow morning, how does he continue in this race and what is the argument that he makes. we've had a little bit of the argument this morning already, tamron. i want to play you a portion of his radio interview where he talks about donald trump and he talks about some of trump's comments about his father.
listen. >> he is perpetuating the greatest fraud in the modern history of politics. the people who are supporting him are good people. the people who are supporting him are frustrated, they're angry with washington. do you want a president who views with scorn anyone who believes in prayer? who mocks and ridicules, uses it as a laugh line that glenn beck would dare say he would fast and pray shows the man is a lunatic because in the upper east side of manhattan, nobody prays. that is the view of the trump campaign. prayer is for the weak. do you think obama has been bad with the contempt he has heaped on christians? you ain't seen nothing yet compared to donald j. trump. >> reporter: very strong words from senator cruz this morning, tamron. again, linking trump, as he has over these last couple of months, to what he calls the liberal east coast elite. it's an argument that has not
moved the needle, at least here in indiana. but this appears to be cruz making this effort, this last-ditch effort here in indiana to try and change the state of play. he's looking ahead, his campaign is looking ahead to nebraska a week from today where cruz and his campaign feels strong. but tonight they are bracing for a blow. and again, the question becomes this week, what do you do? cruz insists he will stay in the race until there is no longer a viable path to the nomination, but if trump does very well here he will be on a path to the nomination, one that could be locked up on june 7th. >> quickly, hallie, i want to play this exchange with ted cruz yesterday and a donald trump supporter. it happened yesterday and i'm curious how the campaign is trying to clear this up. let's play a bit of it. >> i'm running to be everyone's president. >> we don't want you. >> well, you're entitled to your view, sir, and i will respect it. >> do the math. do the math. you asked kasich to drop out. it's your turn. take your own words. >> sir, america is a better
country -- >> without you. >> thank you for those kind sentiments. let me point out i have treated you respectfully the entire time. a question here everyone here should ask -- >> are you canadian. >> hallie, whose idea was that for ted cruz to put himself in that position? >> reporter: apparently cruz himself. he walked across the street. we were at this event yesterday where cruz was holding similar to this a retail stop where you sort of stop and chat with folks as they're happeninging onging . he walked across to engage with these protesters. this is something that cruz has done when he's had protests in the past. he sometimes engages, tries to have a conversation. so while cruz sort of commented, hey, the media is focusing on the protesters and not the supporters, it was cruz himself who approached this group and interacted with them and engaged with them and created some of those moments that you just saw. cruz will talk about this idea that he went and engaged respectfully in what he calls a civil way. and this moment with these protesters is kind of an inkblot
test for how you feel about ted cruz. his supporters see a candidate who tried to talk to some folks, who tried to put his opinion out there and explain why he should be the better choice over donald trump. people who don't support ted cruz saw somebody who was -- i don't want to say defeated, but if you -- some of the stuff that you hear is that folks believe that cruz did not get the better end of that argument. but again, it depends on what you see when you look at that moment and when you look at the senator. >> it's an interesting moment, one that you don't see often. it was intriguing to see the senator kind of go back and forth, not changing the minds of any of those supporters. as he pointed out, he had several hundred people there or a hundred people there supporting him and he chose to focus in on those four or five men there whose minds were not changed by that exchange. all right, hallie, thank you very much. let's talk about some numbers here. the delegate math. steve kornacki is standing by and has the latest with where things stand with a heavy focus
on indiana. >> and what indiana could mean to this path of to 1,237 that we hear so much about. the entire theory of the cruz campaign is that trump can't get there but let's take a look. a big win tonight for trump, he'd be well on his way. 57 delegates up for grabs in indiana. if you win the state, even just boy a vote, you get 30 of them. the rest are given out by congressional districts. three each to the winner of the congressional districts. if you look at it right now, ted cruz support is concentrated in the northeast part of the state. could be his best congressional district there. if donald trump is winning this state the way the polls suggest he's winning it, the odds are he's probably going to get all 57 of those delegates. so let's say that happens. let's say donald trump gets all 57. well, this is what's left after tonight. and what it would mean is donald trump with 57 delegates out of indiana, his new total after tonight would be 1054. trying to get to 1237. that would bring him within 200. basically it would mean in these
states to come between tonight and june 7th, he would need just 183 delegates from this collection of states. you can see new jersey, this is a winner-take-all state. that's a big chunk of delegates and looks like a trump chunk of delegates right now. west virginia, that also looks like trump country. if he's got momentum, and that's what it looks like right now, a state like montana, it's winner take all. a lot of people have been thinking it's a cruz state. that could flip to the trump column very easily if he's got momentum. these are proportional states, new mexico, oregon, washington. he's going to get a chunk out of those states anyway so that will help him. he will need delegates out of california. the question is how many. if he's doing well tonight and doing well in all these other states, he's not going to need to be winning by on overwhelming number in california to hit the number that he needs so that pathway to 1,237 really, really opens up wide if trump wins big tonight. the number to remember if he sweeps all 57 delegates in indiana, the number to remember is 41%. basically the rest of the way, he'd need to get just 41% of all
of those delegates in all those states i circled on the screen. do that, there's no second ballot, there's no open convention and donald trump is the nominee, tamron. developing now, hillary clinton is looking beyond indiana by campaigning as we mentioned in west virginia. clinton discussing the substance abuse epidemic. listen to this, in west virginia you have the highest rate of drug overdose deaths in the united states. that's according to the cdc. we'll look at the numbers and hear clinton's message. plus, new details on the american service member killed in combat while fighting isis. the very latest on the u.s. response this morning and what the u.s. officials are saying happened to that serviceman. we'll be right back. before earning enough cash back from bank of america to buy a new gym bag. before earning 1% cash back everywhere, every time and 2% back at the grocery store. even before he got 3% back on gas.
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we have some live pictures to show you right now from charleston, west virginia, where hillary clinton is holding a roundtable focusing on the state's drug abuse epidemic. according to the cdc, west virginia has the highest rate of overdose deaths in this country. the stop is part of a two-day bus swing through appalachia. last night clinton was met by dozens of protesters at williamson in the heart of coal count country. at a roundtable discussion, secretary clinton apologized to bo copley who recently lost his job at a coal company. back in march she said we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business. we'll have that for you in a second. you can see that exchange for
yourself, but west virginia has not voted democratic in a presidential election since 2000, but voted for bill clinton twice. nbc's kristen welker is with the clinton campaign at athens, ohio, where clinton will be speaking this afternoon. it's interesting, kristen, to note, yes, this is the path for her to secure the nomination on the democratic side, but these two areas are also a big focus for the general election if it's a head-to-head matchup for donald trump especially. >> reporter: there's no doubt about that. she had that in mind when she was at that round table in west virginia last night and again today. as you point out, she's there talking about substance abuse and of course ohio a major battleground state in the general election. it just underscores this pivot, this ongoing pivot that we see from secretary clinton towards the general election. in fact late last night her campaign releasing a few details about just how much money they have raised in the wake of
donald trump's women card comments. let me show you, tamron, i think we have a graphic of some of what she raised. $2.4 million during the last three days of april. that came from 118,000 donors. i'm also told that more than 40% of donors made their first donation. so if you're the trump campaign, that makes you nervous. this is a campaign i think the clinton folks are going to continue to use as they rally women voters. of course they have to walk a somewhat fine line because right now donald trump beats her among male voters. so that's going to be her challenge in a general election. she's got to reach out to some of those male voters. meanwhile, of course, indiana is the state that is voting today. you will note that secretary clinton is not there. she doesn't have an event scheduled for tonight. polls show her with a small lead in indiana, but frankly her campaign has been downplaying its chances there in part, they say, because it is an open primary. there are a lot of white working class voters. so this could be a real test for
her to see if she has gained any test among those voters and that could be critical for her in a general election as well. so again, the clinton campaign pivoting to the general election even as indiana votes today, tamron. >> and we do have the tape of that exchange with the worker who once worked in the coal industry. let's play that. >> i just want to know how you can say you're going to put a lot of coal miners out of jobs and then come in here and tell us how you're going to be our friend. because those people out there don't see you as a friend. >> i know that, bo. and, you know, i don't know how to explain it other than what i said was totally out of context from what i meant because i have been talking about helping coal country for a very long time. i'm here because i want you to know whether people vote for me or not, whether they yell at me or not is not going to affect
what i'm going to try to do to help, because i feel like that's a moral obligation. >> so there we have hillary clinton, kristen, saying that she was misinterpreted and trying to clarify according to the reports that man says his mind was not changed on what she said in the clarification. >> reporter: that's absolutely right, tamron. this is an issue that resonates throughout coal country. in kentucky alone, 1500 coal workers lost their job this year. i can tell you there are some coal workers protesting here outside of her event in athens, ohio. so this isn't going away in the primary. this is something she's going to have to contend with in the general election. i would just underscore how striking that moment was, tamron. it is very rare that we see secretary clinton or any presidential candidate for that matter apologize in that way and backtrack. it's a precursor of things to come as we head into this general. tamron. >> let's go down to ted cruz. he is right now speaking. a lot going on with his
campaign. let's listen in. >> and appreciate your putting a bright smile on it. listen, it's up to the voters. it is up to the people of indiana. it is up to the men and women of this state. i will say this. this morning donald trump went on national television and attacked my father. donald trump alleges that my dad was involved in assassinating jfk. now, let's be clear. this is nuts. this is not a reasonable position, this is just kooky. and while i'm at it, i guess i should go ahead and admit, yes, my dad killed jfk, he is secretly elvis and jimmy hoffa is buried in his backyard. you know, donald's source for this is the "national enquirer." the "national enquirer" is tabloid trash, but it's run by
his good friend, david pecker, the ceo, who's endorsed donald trump. so the "national enquirer" has become his hit piece that you uses to smear anybody and everybody. and this is not the first time donald trump has used david pecker's "national enquirer" to go after my family. it was also the "national enquirer" that went after my wife, heidi. that just spread lies, blatant lies. but i guess donald was dismayed because a couple of weeks ago the "enquirer" wrote this idiotic story about jfk and donald was dismayed that the folks in the media weren't repeating this latest idiocy so he figured he'd have to do it himself. he'd have to go on national television and accuse my dad of that. listen, my father has been my hero my whole life. my dad was imprisoned and tortured in cuba. and when he came to america, he had nothing. he had $100 in his underwear.
he washed dishes making 50 cents an hour. he's exactly the kind of person donald trump looks down on. i'm going to do something i haven't done for the entire campaign. for those of y'all who have traveled with me all across the country. i'm going to tell you what i really think of donald trump. this man is a pathological liar. he doesn't know the difference between truth and lies. he lies practically every word that comes out of his mouth. and in a pattern that i think is straight out of a psychology textbook, his response is to accuse everybody else of lying. he accuses everybody on that debate stage of lying. and it's simply a mindless yell. whatever he does, he accuses everyone else of doing. the man cannot tell the truth, but he combines it with being a narcissist. a narcissist at a level i don't think this country has ever seen. donald trump is such a
narcissist that barack obama looks at him and goes, dude, what's your problem? everything in donald's world is about donald. and he combines being a pathological liar, and i say pathological because i actually think donald, if you hooked him up to a lie detector test, he could say one thing in the morning, one thing at noon and one thing in the evening, all contradictory and he's pass the lie detector test each time. whatever lie he's telling, at that minute he believes it. but the man is utterly amoral. >> senator -- >> let me finish this, please. the man is utterly amoral. morality does not exist for him. it's why he went after heidi directly and smeared my wife, attacked her. apparently she's not pretty enough for donald trump. i may be biased, but i think if
he's making that allegation, he's also legally blind. but donald is a bully. you know, we just visited with fifth graders. every one of us knew bullies in elementary school. bullies don't come from strength, bullies come from weakness. bullies come from a deep, yawning cavern of insecurity. there is a reason donald builds giant builds and puts his name on them everywhere he goes. and i will say there are millions of people in this country who are angry. they're angry at washington, they're angry at politicians who have lied to them. i understand that anger. i share that anger. and donald is cynically exploiting that anger, and he is lying to his supporters. donald will betray his supporters on every issue.
if you care about immigration, donald is laughing at you. and he's telling the moneyed elites he doesn't believe what he's saying. he's not going to build a waul. that's what he told "the new york times." he will betray you on ever you issue across the board. and his strategy of being a bully in particular is directed at women. donald has a real problem with women. people who are insecure, people who are insecure about who they are, donald is terrified by strong women. he lashes out at them. remember, this is the same donald trump who last week here in indiana proudly touted the endorsement from mike tyson, a convicted rapist who served three years in prison here in indiana for raping a 17-year-old girl. and in donald's world he said mike tyson was a tough guy. i don't think rapists are tough
guys. i spent a lot of years in law enforcement dealing with rapists. rapists are weak, they are cowards, and they're bullies. anyone that thinks they're a tough guy, that reveals everything about donald trump's character. donald trump said bill clinton was targeted by unattractive women. you know what, i've been blessed to be surrounded by strong women my entire life. today is voting day here in indiana. the president of the united states has a bully pulpit unlike anybody else. the president of the united states affects our culture. i ask the people of indiana, think about the next five years if this man were to become president.
think about the next five years, the boasting, the pathological lying, the picking up the "national enquirer" and accusing people of killing jfk. the bullying. think about your kids coming back and emulating this. for people in indiana who long for a day when we were nice to each other, when we treated people with respect, when we didn't engage in sleaze and lies, and i would note one of the lies he engages in, listen, donald trump is a serial philanderer and he boasts about it. i want everyone to think about your teen age kids. the president of the united states talks about how great it is to commit adultery, describes his batter with venereal disease as his own vietnam.
that's a quote, by the way, on the howard stern show. do you want to spend the next five years with your kids bragging about infidelity? he does the same projection, just like a pathological liar. he accuses everyone about lying. even though he boasts about it, he plants a lie about me and my family, attacking my family. he accuses others of doing what he is doing. i'll tell you, as the father of two young girls, the idea of our daughters coming home and repeating any word that man says horrifies me. that is not who america is. and i would say to the hoosier state, the entire country is depending on you. the entire country is looking to you right now. it is only indiana that can pull us back. it is only the good sense and good judgment of indiana that
can pull us back. we are staring at the abyss. and i have incredible faith in hoosiers. >> why isn't your message resonating with people. you were up two weeks ago -- >> we've just lost our feed to the ted cruz -- it's pack -- it is back up, i believe. >> the mainstream media is doing everything they can to convince hoosiers this race is over, so they only report on the polls showing donald up. you don't report on the polls show me up. >> which poll show you up? >> there was a poll three days ago that showed me up by double digits. but listen, there is also a broader dynamic. there is a broader dynamic at work, which is network executives have made a decision
to get behind donald trump. rupert murdoch and roger ailes at fox news have turned fox news into the donald trump network. 24/7. now, rupert murdoch is used to picking world leaders in australia and the united kingdom, running tabloids, and we're seeing it here at home. the consequences for this nation. media executives are trying to convince hoosiers, trying to convince americans the race is decided, you have no choice. you are stuck between donald trump or hillary clinton, either one of which is a horrific choice for this country. and i will say the cynicism -- and donald is playing on the cynicism. he lets the media echos that he cannot be beat. you know what, hoosiers can prove that wrong. the people of indiana can prove that wrong. and the country is depending on indiana. if indiana does not act, this
country could well plunge into the abyss. i don't believe that's who we are. we are not a proud, boastful, self-centered, mean-spirited, hateful, bullying nation. you want to understand donald trump, look no further than the interview he did a few months ago in iowa when he was asked a very simple question. when's the last time you asked god for forgiveness? and donald trump said he had never asked god for for gigiven for anything. i want you to think about that. what does that say about a person? i've asked for god for forgiveness three times today. think about your children. do you want your children coming home and saying, mommy, i don't need to ask god for forgiveness for anything. why? because donald trump doesn't. and if he doesn't and everyone likes him, all the media praises
him, i don't need to either. i love this nation with all my heart. i love the people of this country. this is not who we are. these are not our values. if anyone has seen the movie "back to the future 2," the screen writer says that he based the character, biff tannon on donald trump. a caricature of a bragadocious bu buffoon who builds giant casinos with jiept pictures of him everywhere he looks. we are looking potential low at the biff tannon presidency. i don't think the people of america want that. i don't think we deserve that. i don't think hoosiers want that. >> senator, what are some of the strongest words you've used against donald trump yet? you know i've been with you and heard you talk about him.
today feels different for you. i'm going to ask you a question and you're going to say -- >> you sound like a broken record. >> you've asked one already, hallie. >> will you support him as the nominee? i don't understand why you won't answer the question, senator? if you say he's a liar, if you say he's a pathological liar -- >> hallie, you've asked one already. >> senator, when you talk about midwestern values and the common sense and good judgment, if indiana hoosiers don't pick you today, does that make you consider things different than the northeast when you said those were trump neighbors? >> there is no doubt that this indiana primary has national significance. the media is trying desperately to convince you it's over. i'll tell you, if hoosiers come out today and vote, if you pick up the phone and you call your friends, you call your neighbors, if hoosiers come out today and vote and say no, this is not who we are, this is not america, that will change the
entire trajectory of this campaign, of this primary. it will pull us back from the cliff. indiana can do it. indiana can pull us back, but it takes hoosiers showing up and voting today, and the country is looking to indiana, is looking to the judgment of the good men and women of this state. heidi and i and carly, we have traveled this state showing hoosiers respect, asking for their support, answering their questions, all the while donald trump laughs at the people of this state, laughs, bullies, attacks, insults. i don't believe that's america. and it is my hope, it is my
prayer that hoosiers will come out and vote today in record numbers to say to this country this is not who we are. we are a people who believe in goodness. we are a people who believe in manners. we are a people who believe in generosity. we are a people who believe in honesty. we are a people who believe in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. that is america. that is the america i love. it's the america my father fled cuba to come to. we're fighting for this nation. we're fighting for who we are for the very soul and character of this nation. and it is quite literally in the hands of hoosiers across this state. >> what if they don't pick you? senator, if they don't pick you, what does that say about indiana? >> a lot to digest from what we just saw. republican strategist susan del percio is with me. susan, you have ted cruz now as voting is going on right now in indiana watching potentially the
end for him if donald trump is successful, according to the polls many are saying this is all but done. how do you process what he just said of the front-runner? i cannot imagine on any planet ted cruz going on to support donald trump in any way and what impact this has on your party. >> you're certainly correct in that. it was almost as if he just wrote his own "saturday night live" skit there. he was all over the place. >> but no one is laughing. >> right, exactly. and no one is laughing. and i think that at this point he is saying very strongly, i am not going away. there is no way i'm going to get behind donald trump. and we know it's mathematically impossible for him to get to 1,237 for the convention. so he's going to go in. he has enough delegates, though, to actually have an effect at the convention when it comes to speaking and such. so where he goes with this is going to be very, very interesting. he is enclosure lclearly angry,.
i've seen many times when a candidate becomes unhinged, when they know they're going to lose, when they want to say everything they possibly can because this may be their last time, that's what it looks like. >> you say the word "unhinged," he says he's finally unloading and for the first time he's going to tell the world or the public what he thinks of donald trump. pathological liar. this all on the heels of this bizarre "national enquirer" report about ted cruz's father having somehow been a part of jfk's assassination. so from the bizarre world of "national enquirer" to very serious allegations of this off-the-record conversation allegedly with "the new york times" that he has no plans on actually building a wall, this is all part of his deal making here, again the larger impact this could not only have on ted cruz and his future but the republican party. what we heard there was a man who says -- who says basically i will bring the whole ship down, if he's unhinged as you describe him. >> i think he actually will try
and do it. the only positive is, is that people are not buying what he is selling. he can say whatever he wants. he is not having the masses. when he looks at a double-digit loss in indiana, which is most likely the case, he does not have the people behind him, so he can try and sell it. but people will not buy it. >> hallie jackson was standing by. hallie, that was a very aggressive tone that senator cruz took with you dismissing your question, saying he'd heard it before, even though you repeatedly tried to get in there. describe to me what we're seeing, is this a man unraveling? you've covered this campaign for some time now. >> reporter: no, i think the real news, tamron, came at the top of that availability that you guys just saw. cruz talking to reporters, coming out in very strong tones, very strong temples against donald trump. he appeared almost emotional. now, cruz has hit donald trump on the trail many times since january. remember, that before january he refused to do so, he and donald
trump had been in that kind of political bromance for a long time until the iowa primaries which cruz began to draw contrast with trump. now we're seeing what feels like the opposite end of the spectrum from that, cruz hitting trump and more than hitting trump, just speaking of him at a very fundamental level, on a level that went beyond policy, talking about him being a pathological liar, a narcissist, having deep-seated fundamental issues cruz believes. that is something different i believe than what we've seen on the campaign trail repeatedly from cruz for a long time. obviously it is significant that it is happening today as cruz is making this plea to indiana to choose what he calls the right path. you heard him frame this in the starkest of terms, tamron. either you select ted cruz today, hoosiers do, or you plunge over the abyss. plunge into a cliff basically. so the question for cruz, which we tried to get at before he left, is what happens if polling holds and indiana does not choose ted cruz? what does that say if indiana then picks donald trump? how does cruz answer that question.
now, i think that he knows the stakes are high. he says it himself. you heard cruz stand up here and talk about how important it is for indiana to, as he puts it, make the right choice. again, if you look at the numbers and what's happening on the ground, it seems as though this is trump territory. cruz, a senior campaign aide has told me they will stay in the race until trump locks up the nomination. if that were to happen on june 7th in california, because of sort of the what if factor, if trump were to drop the ball, there's the theory cruz wants to be there in order to pick it up in the last five seconds of the game, if you'll pardon the analogy. so there's that thinking. what we heard from cruz obviously is somebody who is angry, who is visibly frustrated, who is upset about these attacks against his family from donald trump and is pushing back in some of the strongest terms we've heard yet. >> he's upset about the attacks. he referenced his wife in an awkward way saying heidi is not pretty enough for donald trump.
bizarre wording there. he awkwardly maneuvered through some of this -- well -- >> let me finish here. what i'm saying overall is why now. people are already voting in indiana. what's going on with the timing? i get the allegation against his father. but there's been a laundry list of incendiary things that donald trump has said about ted cruz. the timing here of it won't help in indiana, not today. where will it help him is my question. >> reporter: potentially down the line if in fact cruz, you know, sticks it out through california. maybe there's a thought that it could help him over the next month. i think when you look at the timing, it's sort of a boiling point. this is a peak moment here. he tried to throw out a couple of jokes. i think i heard you speaking with folks on set there about this. you mentioned the heidi cruz not being pretty enough for trump. if he thinks that, then he must be legally blind so he's trying to use some humor here. he used that loine about president obama saying dude, what are you thinking. i'm paraphrasing here.
but it appears as though there is some writing on the wall here when it comes to how the trump campaign has been doing over these last six straight wins in the northeast. the cruz campaign says that is trump's home turf. but in indiana where the campaign has set its sights since its victory in wisconsin, the stakes are incredibly high and that seems to be why cruz is coming out now in such strong terms about this. i also don't think you can discount the attacks against his father too. one thing i can tell you about senator cruz is his family is incredibly important to him and these types of attacks do appear to get under his skin. >> and i imagine it being the case for anyone. but we know in the game of politics with a guy like senator cruz who is largely despised by members of his own party and has said some incendiary things of his own, it just -- it's interesting to -- you know what, you've got lou holtz endorsing donald trump. this is almost like a hail mary from ted cruz without a receiver on the other end other than california. so i'm just trying to analyze
the timing of this. he's not had a potential -- he's not had a debate so he can take donald trump on, on a stage like this. so here he is today while voting is happening. he's double digits behind, hoping take donald trump on his stage. here he is today while voting is happening. he's double digits behind hoping this long, toss throw going all the way back to new york values. you heard him talking about donald trump where he does not play. he's pivoting from religion to network television to donald trump's past at the 11th hour hoping that it can help. it is a strategy you watch and play out here with him. susan wants to get in on this. >> the one thing that's the case, he's willing to show of the stop trump people that he's willing to pull out every single stop to look for money and especially in california. it is clearly he's speaking from
an emotional place. he has to show he's going to do everything possible and go every place that every other candidates are afraid to do. he really went after trump although rubio did not have a lot of success. that's the only thing i can think of from a strategy point of view that he's saying please stay with me through california, i will go there for you. >> that's a good point halie that susan makes. donald trump said those comments about not asking god to forgive him months ago in iowa. now, you have ted cruz bringing this up after he lost the evangelical votes. he's going all the way from the beginning and just hitting a list of things, throwing everything and i cannot negate even throwing fox news in to it to show -- he's willing to go down and drag donald trump or
whomever else down if it means he could get to cleveland with some support. >> i think you both picked up on an interesting point of the religion argument that cruz is making, something that we have not heard from ted cruz for a while in the campaign trail. you heard it this morning in the radio interview with glenn beck. you heard it again today here a couple of minutes ago on the air. you heard him talking about comparisons between donald trump and president obama when it comes to christianity. that's something different that we have seen from ted cruz, it shows he's trying to figure out what message is going to stick with voters when it comes to trying to slow down donald trump's glide to the nomination if in fact trump is able to win tonight and if trump is able to pick up enough monmentum to do very well in california. >> halie, going back to this report of rafael, cruz and this
grainy photograph, what did this start to get rumbling and really in the push back from the cruz campaign and rafael/cruz himself. >> yeah, i believe it was published a couple of weeks ago. cruz made a point today donald trump let it sit force a while and try to get attention but the campaign is in very clear and calling it garbage basically, false and cheap and meaningless and you heard cruz coming out with that strong push back against donald trump's comment. >> susan, going again what halie was trying to say, and cruz refused to answer her multiple times. if donald trump goes on tonight to win, he's in california, how does your party pull this together? >> it will be remarkable. >> it would be remarkable and yet this all falls on donald trump which is why his comments today about going after cruz and his family -- donald trump will
me need a national organization to get elected. there is no way he will be able to self finance a billion dollar campaign. he's going to need the leaders from state parties like from texas and other places to get on board with him. >> with senator cruz. >> right and other states whether it is florida who's going to be able to raise money and create operations. it seems rather for donald trump to go there this morning when he's going into the sweep. republicans are trying to go through the five stage of the grieve and we cannot get into the fifth stage. every time donald trump says something goes after senator cruz follows. he did not have to do it. that's the bigger problem when we talk about can donald trump become presidential-like. that was certainly not president. >> donald trump is holding onto the one poll that came out and
the nbc's polls that shows a tight race between hillary clinton and donald trump. those polls don't matter at all. this stages o f grief with this party sounds like this morning, it will last well past the general election. some of the winning republican voters like yourself will have to face this question potentially in november. are you willing to support hillary clinton or is that your guy? >> well, the problem is voters from either party, who ever they vote for, they're going to be looking at a county that the majority of the american public do not like and do not trus trust -- okay, is it fair to say with that said and the likelihood with democrats and especially women abandoned hillary clinton for donald trump is a tight dream right now. the larger question is what do republican women do? particularly, white and suburbans, republican women. if that's your choice verses
hillary clinton and it is going to be a really tough question when you look at mit romney won white women with 14% of the vote last time around and now we are looking at not just republican women will do but what the press and the people are concerned about is what are they going to do with the senate and the house down in ballot races. that's the bigger problem for republicans around. the only silver lining on that is that because donald trump is using the republican party. republicans at the senate and congressional level will be able to disadvantage him at this position. >> halie jackson is reporting as well >> thank you for watching this hour. msnbc live, i am tamron hall. up next is "andrea mitchell reports," exclusive interview. hillary clinton is live in west virginia. all on account.of penelope.
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right now on "andrea mitchell reports," coal country, hillary clinton confronts the criticisms with laying off mine workers. >> i don't know how you are telling us how you are going to be our friends. >> because what i was saying is that the way things are going now and we'll continue to lose jobs. that's what i meant to say and that seems to be supported fwie facts. >> moments from now, "andrea mitchell reports," will have an exclusive live interview with hillary clinton in west virginia. >> last hurdle donald trump targets hillary clinton. as he says the primary is near. >> indiana is