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tv   The Place for Politics 2016  MSNBC  May 3, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PDT

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good evening. i'm chris matthews. a big night for republican politics. the takeover is complete now. it's trump's republican party. ted cruz crashed and burned in indiana today. and he announced he's suspending his campaign. >> from the beginning i said i would continue on as long as there was a viable path to victory. tonight i'm sorry to say -- >> no.
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>> it appears that path has been foreclosed. >> no. >> i am not suspending our fight for liberty. i am not suspending our fight to defend the constitution, to defend the judeo christian values that built america. our movement will continue. and i give you my word that i will continue this fight with all of my strength and all of my ability. [ applause ] >> well, now republicans have to decide whether they'll line up behind donald trump a new york businessman and reality tv star or split from him. the republican national
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committee chair reince priebus has made his decision. he tweeted donald trump will be the presumptive republican nominee. we all need to unite and focus on defeating hillary clinton. that's the chairman of the party giving him the nod. the victory in indiana tonight came with an ugly final strike by the front-runner. trump repeated a nationalen choirer peace said that cruz's father had ties with president john f. kennedy's assassin lee harvey oswald and political fact, a fiery response from cruz himself who called trump a pathological liar and utterly immoral. tonight trump had nothing but nice words for cruz. >> just so you understand, ted cruz, i don't know if he likes me or if he doesn't like me, but he is one hell of a competitor. he's a tough, smart guy, and he has got an amazing future. he's got an amazing future, so i want to congratulate ted, and i know how tough it is. it's tough. it's tough.
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i have had some moments where it was not looking so good, and it's not a great feeling, and so i understand how ted feels and heidi and they're whole beautiful family. i want to say though that one tough competitor. >> where does the republican party go from here? will it unite behind trump. robert costas for "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst, steve schmitz to senator john mccain, ee like stoke surveillance a national political reporter for politico and joy reid host of "the news show." what's the name of split we can't say until we get it cleared. >> but for the ftc. >> the powers that be. >> sorry to jump the gun there. it seems to me when trump says i don't know whether he likes me or not, i think he might have liked him more trump called his father an assassin, a presidential
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assassin. what a remarkable performance by trump tonight winning the nomination of the party acting like he hadn't been playing rough here. >> trump always talks about the fight and it's all about the fight and the fight he's in but he's someone that comes out of the business world and can turn in a second, some of his best friends, carl icahn, some of these big businessman they were his enemies in negotiations and now his close end friends. >> words do matter. >> words do matter. cruz mentioned the word unite. cruz did not mention trump in a negative way, didn't mention trump at all. he's staking out his position on the hard right. but it wasn't an anti-trump -- >> i think he's running in 2020. i agree with you. steve, is trump now the nominee? is this it? this is not going to be some scramble with numbers and games played by ben ginsberg, no more machine nations in the back room, no more rule changes, this is it, he's the nominee. >> he's the nominee. he'll be nominated on the first ballot in cleveland and he'll
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have more than he needs with regard to the delegates. he'll be over 1,237. probably be over 1,300. 1 w. 1,350. >> first ballot. >> first ballot. >> so they'll walk in and nominate trump. >> nominate trump. just like that, joy are >> i think what you're seeing is a culmination all reaction that the party had to barack obama. they could have tried to govern the guy and legitimatize his presidency but they stoked things like birtherism and like the tea party and it just so happens the person who was poised to take advantage of the near hysteria was the showman from cable entertainment shows. >> you think it began with the birtherism stuff. >> i do. i think donald trump captured something in the soul of republican voters who felt how did this guy do it? how could this person who represents a changing america that we feel left out of, how does he beat us and how does he keep beating them?
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we keep telling these republicans who give them power, but they're supposed to give something back. they're supposed to stop him. he defeats them over and over again. donald trump captured their rage and no other figure in the republican party knew how to do it but because he is a showman, he is an entertain enary was moving to own birtherism, an anathema to any other person, he captured them. >> first let's start with birtherism, something he doesn't want to talk about anymore and then going to this other -- i don't want to call it a conspiracy theory because nobody believes in it except "the national enquirer" to sell newspapers, that somehow the father had something do with fair play for cuba and is that guy in that picture that had something to do with oswald. he's an amalgamation. if there are establishment mainstream republicans lamenting now that their heart has been taken
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over by the no nothings, look at sarah palin and what's happened to her. the aaron angles that were popular with a tea party element and the republican establishment could never really do anything to rein in those people. it was ripe for someone like trump to come along and connect like this. >> so, what do you think, it is, steve? do you think your party establishment used the people on the grassroots right and now they find the grassroots right decide they want to run the party. >> the old john kennedy quote. when you try to ride the tiger the problem is sometimes you wind up inside the tiger. but this has been building for a long time. we look at the tone in this campaign. >> i like the way you know a lot of stuff. it's great. you know your stuff. >> a lot of commentators scratch their chins and say the tone of this election, have they not listened to talk radio for five minutes in this country that reaches 50 million people a day for a moment in the last ten years? the tone is disgusting around our political discourse and trump has been a reflection of that tone and this steel cage match republican primary. you look at the intellectual collapse of the conservative
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movement, the fading of giants like william f. buckley, the replacements of purveyors of blogs and polemics that -- and it's all collapsed. >> who won? who won when trump won? did mark levine win? did michael -- >> both. >> who are these people? >> mark levine is decrying tonight. he's a series "a" round investor in the demise of the conservative movement in the republican party. he very famously -- a woman calls up his show and has the gall to disagree with mark levine who calls himself the great one, talk about narcissists and self-abegan dicers, mark asked do you have a gun in the house, go find it and blow your brains out. this is the tone that has emanated from talk radio and this cancer has spread and that tone has infected the whole of the party. and so this moment that we've
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arrived at where there's been a investor -- severability and the test of who is the conservative in the race is who has the loudest voice of opposition. we went from being the small government party, but a movement of ideas to being an anti-government party and when constitutions collapse and we no longer propose anything and we no longer stand for anything, we no longer advocate for anything and we don't turn out intellectually the ideas that can move the country forward, you arrive at this moment. >> but can i just say, if you go back you have to remember that jackie robinson left the republican party because barry goldwater made a crusade out of opposing civil rights and came out in print in "the national review" and said that the south has a good reason to so subborn the idea of segregation. >> just -- >> you own that base.
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they are part of -- >> overwhelmingly the republican senators voted for the civil rights bill. >> they did. >> overwhelmingly. >> he did but to put you in bed with that party, george wallace walked out of the american party and the american constitution party. they've been there since wallace. they've been there since pat buchanan. this candidacy has reinvented itself and has been revived and reanimated every generation. trump is just the latest guy. >> i was talking to some trump associates in the last hour. i said, what's next and they said look for trump to come to washington, d.c. if not in the next week, d.c. if not in the next week, in the next few days and start to build the relationships and repair the party. it's not just about the overtures he made to cruz with the hard right but with the washington establishment that's warming to him, but there's chilliness. >> who is going to come out -- i remember all this from '64. there were certain republicans who staked out a position of opposition to barry goldwater, and there were a lot that went along because they wanted futures in the party and i pretty much remember them and
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nixon and all those people remember who they were. they're ones that stuck with the party. it's smart to stay with the party if you have a career. >> there's a lot of senators making that calculation. ben sass, marco rubio. they are not eager to get behind trump. >> what's the alternative? hear what the president said the other night, steak or fish. there's no third choice. you're in or out. and i think they're facing that. >> that's the face they all face right now. there's no good option here and you see republicans like mike salter already staking a claim and drawing a line and saying i'm with hillary and then there will be other republicans -- >> republicans will say that. >> there are national security republicans saying that. >> who? >> mark salter, one of them today -- >> i'm talked about elected officials. >> we haven't seen that but what you see with nagardner and sass, these republican senators who are saying i'm still never trump they're not going to beat a drum for this guy, they're going to take a pass. >> do we know of any electorates going against donald trump? >> lindsay graham was remaining
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in the never trump camp at least publicly through his social media feed and he seems to be the most vocal. one of the only one -- >> he's personal with him. >> his national security -- hillary clinton is closer to him -- >> he doesn't really like trump. >> if you believe that donald trump is unfit to be the president of the united states, if you think he's a pathological liar how disingenuous to say -- >> fair enough. that's been something -- somebody to connect those two dots, what cruz said and what he's going do. here he is lindsay graham on twitter today. any doubt left trump is completely unhinged, his assertion ted cruz's father was associated with lee harvey oswald should remove all doubt. and if we nominate trump we will get destroyed and we will deserve it. steve? >> well, look -- >> i think that's a big issue today. >> lindsay graham had strong feelings, but, remember, he said that before the results came in tonight. before ted cruz's concession speech. before donald trump's victory speech so
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tomorrow is a new day. the first person that really matters tomorrow is paul ryan. how is paul ryan going to greet donald trump as the presumptive nominee of the party, the senate leader. how are we going to see the governors in the states react. so there's going to be this moment of disbelief followed by resignation, acceptance. for big swaths of the republican party. as roberts said, he'll be coming to washington, d.c. but these elected republican leaders will make a self-interested calculation. is it better to be with donald trump? is it better to keep the party united, or am i going to be hurt long term in my career with being with donald trump. so, you know, politicians have, as you know, a strong instinct for self-preservation and that will be no small part of the basis of this. >> every journalist in every state of the union will be trying to pry out of every republican office holder exactly whether he's with trump or against trump and it's going
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to be very hard to slip this knot. there is a slip side to that >> there's a flip side to that. a lot of republicans don't say it publicly, but when you get them behind the scenes they think they're going to embrace trump and his rough and tumble because it's going to bring out the voters. they really believe in spite -- >> i think in parts of pennsylvania, barletta's district -- >> the philly suburbs. >> no, but there's a lot of space out there in alabama and pennsylvania. that part. anyway, these four sticking with us tonight. by the way, you're going to want to tune in at 6:00 a.m. tomorrow morning and "morning joe" and mika will speak with donald trump. much more ahead on the race and, by the way, whether trump can unite the party behind himself and whether hillary clinton is ready for what's coming here way. i think trump is going to be on the offensive. this is a special edition of "hardball," the place for politics tonight. following tonight's indiana victory which has given trump the republican presidential nomination.
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folks, this has been an amazing evening. i didn't expect this. i didn't expect it. and what ted did is really a very brave thing to do and a great thing to do because we want to bring unity to the republican party. we have to bring unity. it's so much easier if we have it. [ applause ] >> welcome back to "hardball." that's donald trump calling for republican unity but the race today hit a new low after trump landed some of his most scathing and questionable attacks on ted cruz. on fox news this morning trump repeated a dubious story -- let's not even call it that -- saying cruz's father was connected to the assassination of president kennedy. that's what it was said and it was clearly read that way. let's watch him. >> his father was with lee harvey oswald prior to oswald being shot.
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i mean, the whole thing is ridiculous. what is this prior to his being shot and nobody even brings it up. they don't talk about that. that was reported and nobody talks about it, but i think it's horrible. what was he doing with lee harvey oswald shortly before the death, before the shooting? it's horrible. >> crazy. >> well, outrageous attacks have not slowed trump's momentum in the republican primaries and as dan balz reports in "the washington post," he has no intention is of toning it down as he pivots to run against hillary clinton in the general. quote, officials say two things are not likely to change. first trump would continue to be hoof prepared to say imprudent or unpopular things. and second trump's unpredictable what critics regard as his lack of discipline would prove to be an asset against clinton. senator warren tweeted i'm going to fight my heart out to make sure donald trump's toxic stew of hatred never reaches the white house. we're back with robert costa,
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and joy and eli, eli, start with this. trump's -- maybe i'm alone. i'll take it. i'll take the stand. i think when you mess with something like the assassination of john f. kennedy and those of us who lived through, republican, democrat, or whatever, that was the moment of their life. 9/11 was horrible, but that was something that cut to the heart of this country to have a young president killed right in front of us, and to use it as a political football to me is outrageous. he accused the other guy's father of being an assassin. there's no other way to read it. it's totally illogical because lee harvey oswald liked castro >> so does he say that because -- >> this guy's father hated castro. it doesn't make any sense. i'm talking about ted cruz. >> yeah, but does trump say that because he's up 15 points and he knows he's going to win or is he up 15 points because he's said thing after thing after thing. >> nothing like this. assassin? >> okay, well, but i mean
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he has sort of taken things that we think are sacrosanct and and blown them up. >> i put this with birtherism. to say that the president of the you'd mother, a white mother from kansas thought this through. i want my son to be president so i'm going to go marry a guy in east africa, and i'm going to have my son over there but i'm going to fake the birth announcement in the honolulu newspapers and i'm doing it all and then i'm going to name him barack hussein obama and, by the way, he's black. this is the craziest thing. it doesn't make any sense and some people say -- you know way they say they believe it, because it sticks it to obama. >> it shows that trump has skimmed as with everything else that he deals with not fully read what some of the conspiracies. what he's getting at and "the miami herald" reported about this, essentially this picture that is floating around of lee harvey oswald with a guy that vaguely somewhat looks like donald trump and the --
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>> looks like ted cruz's father. >> looks like -- >> i'm sorry looks like cruz and he's delving into that. those folks that know that's a conspiracy, it's a great way to remind people that rafael cruz jr. is cuban and that his father was pro-castro before he turns against castro. >> we all were pro-castro until he came out as a commie. >> it gives him that vague sense of foreignness that helps donald trump with his base. it's all about making -- >> i was there when castro went on edward r. murrow. everybody was rooting for him. this country thought we had beaten the bad guy batista and and then all of a sudden he says i'm a communist, so i don't hold that against cruz's father. we're all with that so, what's this all mean trump can say anything. nothing is sacred? >> we talked to trump officials of this and they talk about the unpredictability. they think clinton and her allies -- >> crooked hillary. are they going to keep that up? >> i think he's going to keep it up. he loves the labels.
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he think it's a branding exercise. you have to put a label on someone and hammer it day in and day out. and the thing about trump, when i asked him months ago, how do you envision the general election race against secretary clinton, he says you have to just be moving all the time, whether it's to the center, to the left, to the right, and you saw a speech tonight, one thing that stuck out, his mention of trade, he's running as a protectionist, a populist, this is not the kind of ideological republican democrats expected. >> yeah. unpredictability but, you know, you never know when he's telling the truth. how is that for unpredictable. >> savidge unpredictability and the days of the media guardrailing the race are over. the days of the media policing what's a negative comment, what's fair, what's a low blow, what's in bounds, it's all over. >> there's no gatekeepers. >> the jury of the american voting public will decide and all of her vulnerabilities, and
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we saw it earlier in this campaign, the war on women meme that democrats have used to a devastating effect, it's coming back at them in a form of a 110-mile-an-hour fastball to the head. donald trump's going to throw it. that unpredictability is an asset for him in this race. it's been an asset for him throughout this entire campaign and what the trump campaign will have to figure out is where is the border between we've been winning because of and we've won in spite of. and i'm not sure they understand completely where that line is. >> do you? when you say things like america first and everybody knows it has a bad history and opposition to fighting hitler, basically, he used it -- doesn't he use it on purpose to get us angry at him or does he not know? >> many of the american firsters of that era when the japanese bombed and attacked us we became
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committed to the war effort of course, but no one remembers the historic frame on that in this country. >> the liberal reporters -- you're right about it -- says he shouldn't be using that phrase. he seems -- did he know he was using a phrase that would incite people? >> i bet money he doesn't know the providence of that phrase, but the point here is i think that wisconsin was a big wakeup call for them. i think they lost badly in wisconsin. he went on radio shows where he was decimated by the host that he was unprepared. >> he stopped doing sunday tv shows. >> he's throttled back on these appearances and i think importantly, it's where he crossed the line on the attack on heidi cruz, and i think that that was a moment where certainly in republican circles the question of what's wrong with this guy, you know, out over the line and is he going to be able to reel it back in and dial it back n and i think that's the issue. >> you've been great tonight. our panel. joy reid of a new program to be
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named. up next -- for the naming ceremony. up next we turn to the democrats and while hillary clinton still has a clear path to the nomination, bernie sanders is making the case that he's the candidate who does best against donald trump. you know, that's in the numbers but people just don't seem to believe it when he says he would fare better against trump. he does. he certainly believes it. this is a special edition of "hardball," the place for politics.
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i think that there's more and more delegates are to the democratic convention take a hard look at which candidate is generating the kind of enthusiasm, excitement and voter turnout that we need to make sure that somebody like a donald trump does not become president, i think you're going to see more and more delegates concluding that that candidate is bernie sanders. >> welcome back. that was bernie sanders. of course, the senator from vermont earlier tonight in indiana after he was declared the winner of tonight's democratic primary in the hoosier state. he pulled off a surprising upset over democratic front-runner hillary clinton who led in all the public polling leading up to tonight's contest and also won the state back in 2008. as once sanders' aide put it to
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jansing, we needed a shot in the arm and we got it tonight. let's do it all in that order. woof our panel with us here. stephanie, where is the democratic party nomination fight right now? >> well, hillary clinton has a nearly insurmountable lead in pledge delegates. she's won more than 2 million more votes than bernie sanders and she is very much on the path to becoming the democratic nominee for president. >> bob? >> the math is very much on her side. she does face a difficult may. i think west virginia, kentucky, nebraska are states where he can do very well. oregon i think he will win and then california is the big prize and she gets the nomination i suspect or i'm sure whether or not she wins california, but she doesn't want to limp to the
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nomination. while handling the sanders people very carefully. >> they don't want him to be the cherry on sop of the sundae. she doesn't want to be wounded on the way so i think they're going to put a major effort into california while handling the sanders people carefully because they need him in the fall. >> they don't want him to be the last win. >> that's what i'm saying. >> if he loses after winning california, it would feel pretty good if you're him. you want to make demands. is this about demands at the convention. >> i think bernie sanders wants to get the platform changed and have a big speaking role and get the view of his supporters to become more left. he wants to push the party in that direction. they become more left and populist. i think tonight he had a big win. >> he doesn't want to change the name of the democratic party. >> what makes you assume he doesn't want to change it. >> he's a democratic. >> i don't think it matters. >> sabrina, the reason i bring it up because it's trouble making but i brought it up because i think the republicans are going to rename the party. and bernie has a big role in it. >> absolutely. bernie sanders likes to say that he would be a better general election nominee compared with
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hillary clinton and he's relying on polls that are being conducted very early where he hasn't faced serious attacks. she's been a public figure for more than two decades, but at receiving end of more than 20 years worth of attacks from opponents in 2008 and he is someone who has actually been helped in part by the republicans who would love to face him who have tried to promote his candidacy in recent months because they will define him as a social iist if bernie sanders were the nominee and if he add prominent role. >> you were at the dinner the other night. he said that's no way to treat a comrade. >> this was to repeat a very good night for donald trump not only because ted cruz dropped out, but because hillary clinton has to fight on in the democratic primaries. so it's a win/win for trump. on the republican side --
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>> she has ramparts through california. >> she has to stay at the ramparts and has to handle as bob was saying, the trump -- the cruz -- the sanders people with kid gloves because he's going to be a major force, and this is where i came in the movie -- into the movie in 1980 with news week magazine. essentially the democratic party was tearing itself apart with an incumbent president you once worked for, jimmy carter and the last of the kennedy crew saids with ted kennedy and ht convention in new york turned out to be about the kennedys thanks in part to bob shrum who wrote one of the most memorable speeches ever for ted kennedy and it was kennedy's convention not the incumbent democratic president's convention. and, by the way, there was a republican who had been an actor who was not seen as very credible and so forth and so on, but the democratic party tore t
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itself apart and he won the election. this is the kind of thing that the democrats and hillary clinton have to try to avoid as long as bernie sanders doesn't have bob shrum writing his speech he'll be fine. >> i think you'll agree with me, chris, because we were both participants in this. the differences between carter and kennedy were much greater than the differences and in fact, they had not debated because carter would not debate and kennedy really thought he deserved a debate, they were much big differences than the differences you have between sanders and hillary clinton and i think it's more like 2008 and i think they're going to be able to make this thing up. i don't think it's that difficult. bernie sanders has already said we're both better than cruz whose gone or trump. >> let me go to stefanie for a second. i want to talk about the gender aspect of this campaign. bernie -- i looked at the numbers today. i think they're pretty much even, right? >> yeah. >> inner -- in terms of --
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i didn't see hillary getting a big advantage about woman. what's going on, stephanie? >> well, i think as we're looking at where hillary is in this process, i mean she's winning and i think we keep forgetting that piece of it. she's got more delegates, she's won a lot more voters. and i think she's in a really strong place. now, she is making a really good case on how she wants to lead this country moving forward and i think ultimately our party is absolutely going to be united. what we know tonight is that the stakes got higher tonight and democrats across this country are going to see that and the other thing i know that right now donald trump is looking at an unfavorability of women voters that is unbelievable. seven out of ten women voters dislike donald trump. and women voters are going to decide this election, and they're going to stand with hillary clinton in november. >> how do you -- do you think there's any chance trump can win?
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>> boy, not with what he's done in alienating, not just women voters, but so many voters in the country. this is a guy who would be not winning being a radical extremist and wants to ban muslims and the language around women. here's the thing. women voters really are going to decide this election. they've decided the many elections behind us. we saw the largest gender gap in 2012, and the republican party knew then that they needed to change their policy platform. they didn't. so they're still holding on to extreme policy platforms and now they have a guy whose rhetoric is so offensive that seven out of ten women in this country don't like it. that's a -- >> i agree with all that and i still think it's going to be a close election. i think trump is shooting the moon as we say in hearts. everybody's discarding all of these bad thoughts and he says i'll take those cards. i'll take those cards. >> he's losing in utah and missouri.
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so let's not -- >> so, it's over. >> nothing is over. obama won by a lot in 2012 and right now romney is doing better than trump did. >> you're challenging my premise that like most american elections it's going to be close. >> i'm questioning the press, i am. i think it's a potential, but -- >> we'll meet in the back room. we'll meet in the back room and write this down. >> i don't think -- i will go out on a limb right now and i think except for maybe arizona, i don't think trump is going to lose any of the states that have been republican in recent years. >> the last elections were not very close, i would argue. so if you're going to say trump is going to lose all the same -- >> all three people here know the state like pennsylvania, i think it's going to be more interesting than you might imagine. >> that's the illusion republicans have. every four years, boy, we can compete for pennsylvania. and, as you know, they spend lots of money -- >> so the election's over and why bother. i think if i trump's guys, i'd go to pennsylvania and figure out how
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to win that state. that's the secret. >> can i say what i think? the reason i think that stephanie says what she says is that trump is living in a demographic cul-de-sac. he can't get the 40% of hispanic votes he needs to win. he's not going to do well with women, especially single women. among african-americans, what if he gets to 9% or 10%. that isn't going to get him to where he needs to go. >> you're saying it's a blowout. >> i don't think it's a blow-out. i think it will be about 28 states plus the district of columbia, about 380 electoral votes. >> okay. >> and arizona is -- >> >> we've had our first electoral college prediction right now on this show. >> i think in the end it's going to be october matters. and i think barack obama is going to be the surprise and he's going to save hillary. anyway, these men and woman are sticking with me. much more ahead on this special edition of "hardball" stay with us. ♪ you're not gonna watch it! ♪
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welcome back to this special edition of "hardball." indiana primary night where, by the way, big news now donald trump is the big winner tonight in indiana and he's assigned all 57 delegates to trump. stephanie, bob, perry and sabrina saul staying with us. i want to start with stephanie and ask the same question to everybody. the question is this is based upon reporting and analysis so far, who is going to be on the offense and who on the defense through most of the fall campaign. stephanie? hillary or trump? >> well, i think it will be very interesting because the contrast is so so clear, you know, between hillary clinton who has been a champion for women and families who actually has policies and policies like equal pay and paid sick leave and reproductive rights and health care and national security policies and donald trump who we haven't heard very many policy yet from and maybe that will
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change. i think it's going to be a really, really aggressive campaign on both sides and i think the contrast is very clear on this. >> who is going negative? >> both. you have to be really careful about the word who is going to on offense because everybody thinks it's best to be on offense. but trump's problem is, he can't seem to be on offense without being offensive and alienating whole groups of voters. i can see him pulling a rick lazio going over to hillary clinton saying, sign this, sign this, sign this. his candidacy was dead. it's going to be negative on both sides. >> i like the way you say -- >> the problem with donald trump is he can't be managed or controlled. so even when he goes on offense tonight he heard him bring out some of the same attacks that bernie sanders uses and going after bill clinton, he can't stay on that message though so last week instead he was going
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after playing the so-called woman card and that's something that clinton's campaign -- >> is he in control? >> he's in control in terms of coasting past this republican primary, but when it comes to comments that he makes, they raised $2.4 million in three day, the clinton campaign off those women card comments and 40% came from first-time donors so clearly he has the potential to not just offend women voters who have already been voting democrat but married republican women who said overall they cannot imagine supporting donald trump. >> weatherry, when he threw out that thing about the assassination today about lee harvey oswald. did he plan to drop that bomb the day he was going to win by 15 points? >> i don't think -- it sound like he read something. but to answer your question, the safe way -- what is it? trump, of course, is going to be on offensive the most. hillary is a politician who is going to play by the rules and she's going to paint in the lines and draw in the lines and she's going to give policies. she's going to be like a normal
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candidate and donald trump is going do whatever he wants to do. look at his whole primary. he's on the offensive every day of the primary so i don't think it's going to change in the general. >> who is on offense? >> trump. that's all trump knows and that's the whole point he thinks of this election, and i have to say even though the logic and the demographics and the issues, everything bob has said, everything sabrina has said, everything stephanie has said, all logically mean hillary in a walk without having to tear down the house, the mood of the american people towards politics and towards government and towards washington emotionally is trumpian. and whether he can convert that emotion into votes is the question of the campaign and he's going to do it with every bit of david mamet style hustle and salesmanship and steak knives and you don't get any coffee because you're not a closer. >> like glen gary ross.
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>> people who detest him already and that's a vast majority of the american people are going to detest him more not just because he expresses these frustrations, some of which they share, but because of the way he does it. >> okay, let me ask stephanie. we're all remembering the presidential debates that are run by the commission. there's three presidential debates. they're very controlled. there's no audience there and there's usually a sober-minded moderator like gwen ifill, very calm, no applause, no shtick, no games. can trump win? i think hillary can win in that kind of environment. can trump subdue himself and still win, or does he lose all three debates? stephanie schriock. >> we haven't seen him yet be subdued in any way, so it's hard to imagine we're going to see that in the future. and we know -- i mean, hillary clinton has such an incredible grasp of every single policy
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issue facing this country, domestic or foreign, and she's so immensely prepared to be the next president of the united states. i think those debates are going to be challenging. the one thing i want to say about howard's point about donald trump being on the offense, which i do clearly think he's going to be, keep in mind that the american people are going to see over and over again all of the offensive rhetoric that he has already used in this primary campaign and those words, his own words, are going to be used against him over and over and over again, and it is going to be a huge problem for him. >> yi, i agree. it's a big reel of video. all those things are coming from the clinton campaign. >> by the way, it's all permanent. >> i quest your premise that trump should behave like a presidential in the debate. >> there's no applause or nothing. >> i don't think he's going to win a walkoff with hillary. no one would. i think he should be himself and
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make jokes and be aggressive. attack a lot. >> does that work in a quiet room? >> it's not -- >> first, there are audiences. >> they're not supposed to respond. >> they're not supposed to be. >> but they are human beings. >> but they do and if somebody says something funny, they respond, and if somebody says something outrageous, you might get booed. you do think you're raising a really fundamental point. in addition to her giving an acceptance speech that can recast the way people see her and i think she can do that, takes work and she needs to prepare that, she needs a thorough debate camp for whatever shows up. >> they do a good job whenever they're ready. but the unpredictable nature is what you can't predict. much more ahead. more of this supersize roundtable tonight. this is a special edition of "hardball," the place for politics because i think she's always ready for the unpredictable. show me movies with romance.
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show me more like this.
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show me "previously watched." what's recommended for me. x1 makes it easy to find what you love. call or go online and switch to x1. only with xfinity. we're going after hillary clinton. she will not -- [ applause ] she will not be a great president. she will not be a good president. she will be a poor president. >> you know, that's the strangest thing he's saying she will not be a good president like she's going to be president.
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strangest thing. that was donald trump looking ahead tonight to the likely general election matchup with hillary clinton but seeming to be looking forward to the hillary clinton presidency. anyway, still with me is stephanie schriock, bob shrum, democratic strategist, perry bacon, senior political reporter for nbc news and sabrina siddiqui of "the guardian," that's a newspaper. you first. you weigh this way, okay. i'm thinking in pig latin. the question is, if you're donald trump and you've got your brain working and you're thinking, i need to add something, there's something missing here, a general that say qu achai, there's something missing in my approach and appeal, i need a running mate to fix it, what kind of running mate does he need? >> everybody's underestimated donald trump every step of the way and i'm not going to
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underestimate his -- shrewdness of this. it's somebody who is calmer than he is. inside manager type. somebody like that is this what i do know from talking to clinton allies and democrats on capitol hill so he needs someone who can balance in terms of experience what he lacks in a grass root policy. a governor, an experienced governor. >> he needs a woman if possible and a minority would be great too. the democratic ticket at its core will appear more competent than donald trump so he needs someone who can balance -- a governor, an experienced governor. >> an executive. >> he needs a woman if possible and a minority would be great too. if he should call nikki haley every day -- >> i thought about her myself. >> that's the problem actually. we're sitting here talking about who he should pick. who he should pick. i think he's going to have to pick somebody who is willing to do it, and i think a lot of republicans will not be willing do it. >> but kasich -- >> >> his safe choice, his
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fall-back is chris christie because chris christie has nothing else do in politics. >> very helpful. i think you'll be as helpful to trump, but if you can imagine being for trump what would you advise him to do in terms of a complementary figure on the ticket. >> you have to find somebody to say yes. >> i'm not fingerprinting. i'm not mug shotting you. i'm just asking. >> i think one thing that they've got to be careful of is i think we learned from ted cruz again is that you can't pick a woman to fix your women issues and women challenges. >> thank you, stephanie. the president recommended a woman. that's so great. this might make news. thank if you, stephanie schriock. anyway. >> not. >> not recommend. >> thank you. thank you, perry, bob, and join me again tomorrow for more "hardball. right now stay tuned as chris hayes picks up the coverage at the top of the hour.
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good evening from new york, it is just after midnight, i'm chris hays. and in case you're just tuning in, the chicago cubs are the best team in baseball and donald trump is probably going to be the republican party nominee. that's where things stand. on the democratic side, bernie sanders pulling out a narrow victory over hillary clinton. much more on that race and what it means in a bit. before that, donald trump is now the likely nominee for the republican party. his path to the gop presidential nomination all but clear a

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