tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC May 4, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PDT
if trump wins -- we are out of time for that. that will have to be another painful night. it's over. donald trump, a reality tv star and businessman from new york with no political background is the new standard bearer of the republican party, like it or not. with that reality comes a moment of truth for the republican party itself. can they back him? a growing list of republicans are saying yes, they can. governor nikki haley of south carolina.
mike huckabee. senator susan collins of maine. a spokeswoman for senator john mccain told nbc, as john mccain said he will support the nominee of the republican party who is now presumptively donald trump. he's opposed to the continuation of failed policies of president obama that will occur under pill ri clinton and have led to a world more volatile and less safe than any time since world war ii. there's also a number of activists who say they refuse to back trump even though he's won the nomination. george w. bush and george herbert walker bush say they will stay out of it. donald trump told lester holt that his negative numbers will calm down. let's watch the latest. this is a few minutes old. >> negatives are staggering. disapproval, 69%, women. african-american, 80. how much of that is
self-inflicted by some of the rhetoric from the primary campaign and how do you heal that while still respecting those who got you here? >> the highly respected rasmussen poll came out. i haven't started on hillary clinton yet. i don't know what you're talking about with the negatives. i will say, i think i'll do well with women and in the last seven state, which i won in land slid, i won in women, african-american, hispanics. i won at every single level. >> you discard all these numbers? >> i don't discard anything. i just got it not even 24 hours ago. >> howard fineman, global editorial director. it's limited in its accuracy and
it's also a republican poll. there's a staggering gap. >> poll after poll after poll shows him losing to hillary clinton. that's the fact. he never acknowledges it. today, we should just take a minute to think about what happened in the last 24 hours. the republican party, today, is like rome on the morning after the night when the barbarians came through the gate. >> i was going to say berlin. >> the city has been sacked. there's a lot of running around. there's a lot of screaming, wailing. people are trying to figure out what to do. and, so, it's maybe not the best day to make confident predictions as to what's going to happen two weeks from now, four weeks from now or whatever.
will the resistance manage to gather itself. >> i was in budapest and one of the more cynical people said the road to damascus is crowded these days. there's a lot of converts. look at this, john mccain support for trump. it's a surprise to some given the very personal attack trump levelled at him last summer. just to remind ourselves of how vicious it got. let's watch trump on john mccain opinion. >> i supported him. he lost. he let us down. i never liked him as much after that because i don't like losers. frank, let me get to it. he's not war hero. he's a war hero. he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't capture preponderance of the evidence i hate to tell you. >> john mccain is on base. >> i think that's very interesting. i agree that sometimes the road to damascus is crowded. right now it's eerily sparse.
there's some that's creeping forward to say i will support trump. the senator said this morning in an interview that she would support but not endorse. >> what does that mean? >> i have no idea. it's like the mideast peace -- >> the other women in the party nikki haley. >> everybody is making a big deal last night. his former aide and speech writer said he would never vote for trump. if you're donald trump, you'll take john mccain over mark salter. >> he said he's going with hillary. give us a sense of how this will shake out. how many people will scatter and how many will salute. >> i'm sitting here shaking my head. the same people who told me i would have go and vote for romney, i was going to have to vote for john mccain are saying that they're not going to vote
for donald trump. yet i still went in and they're not taking their own piece of advice. today has shown the adults from the children within the republican party and the ones that put the party ahead of their egos. those guys that holding onto i'm not going to vote for him, a lot of them are probably sour grapes and they have to face the fact that their word is not as strong as their mommy gave them credit for. they're saying i'm going to put unity ahead because we're going to have to go against this major machine that was created before barack obama that will be headed up for hillary clinton and it will be something we'll take. everybody will have to be part of it if we'll be able to defeat. >> reince priebus agrees with you. let's watch the chair of the republican national committee. >> we got to unify. we need time to unify. we will unify. this is what today starts, which is this unification process. >> in his interview with lester holt a couple of minutes ago,
trump didn't try to back way from his calls to ban muslims and deport 11 million people here illegally. let's watch him go at it again. >> do you stand by them? do you stand by the idea of a ban against foreign muslims coming here? >> i do. we have to be vigilant. we have to be strong. there's a big problem in the world. you look at what's happening with the migration in europe. >> you promised to deport those in this country illegally? >> and come back. they'll be deported. we need to have a country. we have many illegals in the country. we have to get them out and go through a process, go through a system. ones that have done well and have really achieved, we want to bring them back in. >> back to where we start tonight. joining here scotty, the quickness with which this came. up until last night, we had a sense that although trump would win, indiana, that cruz would stick to the fight. this thing would go on for a while.
i think that's what stunned us last night, the end so quick. >> looked like trump was going to win in the end but cruz could stick in for a while. kasich would stick in for a while. how did their situation change. >> the anti-trump in the faction that found itself with no contenders. >> exactly. what do they do now in you can't beat somebody with nobody. they didn't have much of somebody in the first place. now they literally have nobody. >> i want to hear scotty. what happened so fast? do you know why the opposition to trump crumbled last night, guess early in the day yesterday. they got word that the exit poll, i don't know how they got the exit numbers earlying but they got some polling that said cruz would get hammered. i guess kasich already knew he was down in the single digits and it wasn't going to happen for him ever. they could have still fought for a while. >> sometimes reality bites for presidential candidates. we saw that yesterday. i think the polling came back
that in new jersey trump was leading by double digits, west virginia, california. there was no sense of a brokered convention where the idea it's resonating with the people this is a rigged system that keep politicians in power. you have senator ted cruz who still has a hopeful, political future. he wanted to cut off his losses to see if he could escape unscathed. why is it so surprised that mr. trump, i guess we're used to politicians flip-flopping on what the position is. those points that mr. trump made are the same thing he's said consistently all along. >> fair enough. >> why would he flip-flop because he's the candidate? >> they do when they say inflammatory things. i think you have a fair point. >> that's the one thing about mr. trump. whether you might not like every word he says, you have trust is what he says is what he will stand by.
you like some things. what we're missing in politics today is truth and trust. that's why he's appealing to so many. >> do you think it's right to take 11 million people living as americans and send them to mexico or anywhere else they came from? do you think that's a reasonable u.s. policy? >> i think we have a broken system and a ronald reagan thought -- >> that's not what he's saying. >> it did not solve it. we need to look at our immigration system. we know that. >> i don't know that. that's not what he's saying. he's saying send back 11 million people. we should we do that? >> let them come back legally. we need to know who is within or borders. the same thing goes with muslims. not saying he's going to ban all muslims from america. he's saying all american muslims will continue to flow back and forth freely. we need know who is within our
borders. >> how do we tell their religion? how can we detect, honestly and truthfully the religion of someone applying to come in on any entry into the country? how do you detect that? >> we're trying. we're asking the question. >> just how would we do it? >> that's the great thing about technology. you can ask them. there's screening processes we can use that's are not in place now. our system is broken. all he's asking for -- >> can we detect through any electronic ability, can we screen for religion? i didn't know we would. >> as american citizens we have the right to know who is coming within our country too. i have to sit there and say i'm going to defend america first. kind of like what his foreign policy is. i think it's fair we know who it is. let's get the system fixed and we'll bring people in and out
and freely. at least our american families are safe. >> thank you very much. thank you howard fineman. you got pushed aside there. donald trump said he will focus on hillary clinton's past, not her ideas for the future. it's going to be a scorched earth campaign like we've not seen before. are clintons and the democrats ready for what's coming from trump. why can't hillary clinton shake bernie sanders loose from her. she's still chasing her. he's helping trump by staying in the race that's virtually impossible for him to win. can clinton battle trump with sanders still on her left flank? with cruz and kasich out of race, donald trump is in. given all he's said and done, it's an earth shaking moment many people said could never happen. the hardball round table will be
with us. the false claim that ted cruz father was connected to john f. kennedy assassination. we'll speak with his secret service agent tonight. we needed 30 new hires for our call center. i'm spending too much time hiring and not enough time in my kitchen. (announcer) need to hire fast? go to ziprecruiter.com and post your job to over 100 of the web's leading job boards with a single click. then simply select the best candidates
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welcome back. with a general election matchup between clinton and trump, a new head to head poll shows clinton with a -- this is the news, 54-41. this is an election that will get closer but pretty wide apart now. clinton ties trump with support among men and leads by 26 points among women. remember that number. in a preview of what kind of campaign we can expect, trump says he hasn't started in on clinton. he said her past is really the thing. her past, rather than what she
plans to do in future. her past has a lot of problems. like the way he phrases that. she's got a past to put it bluntly. here is what he said on "morning joe." >> bernie sanders said she's got poor judgment. he also said she's unqualified, but i won't even go there. bernie sanders said she's got poor judgment, and she does. you look at the e-mail scandal. she wouldn't be allowed to run. you know that. joe knows that and everybody knows that. she's only being protected by the democrats. she should not be allowed to run. she should suffer like other people who have suffered who have done far less. >> team clinton is already preparing for this kind of attack. her strategist said republican attacks go unanswered. when he does this, we'll be aggressive. the clinton campaign is using the republicans own words against trump. here it is.
>> i am a unifier.
we're going to be a unified party. >> he's a con artist. >> a phony. >> donald trump is the no nothing candidate. >> he's a bully. >> he mocked a disabled reporter. >> i don't remember. >> who attributed a reporter's questions to her menstrual cycle. >> the most vulgar person to aspire to the presidency. >> he only feels big when he's trying to make people feel small. >> don't worry about it little marco. >> the bullying, greed, the showing off. >> he needs therapy. >> needs therapy. stewart steveson said he's about to basic into a 1 billion dollar buzz saw. i guess he's talking about the campaign for clinton. thank you carolyn. erin is the national political reporter for the washington post. let me, what do you think
knowing what you know about the clinton armor? how good is it? how strong is her armor? strike back at this incoming. >> it's two things at once. it is defensive and offensive. it is built to continue the military, the marshal
analogy. it is built that way. from the start the clintons, plural, have expected assault on them. on everything about them. on the entire architecture of the clinton political franchise starting with bill clinton, good and bad, and continuing through hillary. they have designed ways, they think, are effective to protect that and project and try to get through. >> what was great about that was instant retaliation. they would follow the news cycle the way trump follows it, which is every second.
they're up against the guy in the news cycle and able to hit back so fast. they learned the lesson from dukakis in '88. he didn't respond. >> the question is how she can fulfill the role. >> smiling is a weird thing in politics. people smile the most aggressive smiles. it's not like i'm happy. it's like i can take it or you think you're so smart, you're not. all smiles seem to say something about aggression these days. how does she laugh her way through or chuckle her way through what looks to be a storm of attack? >> i think she feels like she's got a pretty stealy spine and been through all kinds of humiliation and attacks. she's going to have an interesting and powerful weapon at her side this time in barack obama. they're campaign, the clinton campaign want to unleash barack obama.
if you recall during the white house correspondence dinner, how much he enjoys going after trump. he's chomping at the bit to make the case. she will have two presidents at her side sort of buffering her. i don't think the campaign wants her directly going one-on-one at trump but they want to create a megaphone around her to deflect and go after him. >> do you think barack obama is cool enough because he has to be able to take these shots down. when you shoot down, it's dangerous. that pulls you down into the fight. how does he keep his dignity in match with trump that is good at destroying the other guy's dignity? how does he keep from being part of the problem? >> i think he's master of it. he has an ability to stay aloof. trump went after his citizenship, the birther campaign.
it was very personal. the way that obama responded at that white house correspondence dinner was mocking, joking, but did not lose his cool and he never really did over that issue. he's very eager to be part of this campaign. he is very eager to make the case against trump. the one area where i think the clintons know they have a problem and thinking about how to address it is social media and personality. trump has shown that is a powerful platform in a modern campaign. the clintons don't have anything that matches his eight million followers and the personality that drives social media. it's not just on television. it's on twitter. they are trying to figure out if they can create something to be a counter force there. >> i think trump will grab all the available stuff. he will start with the three speeches for goldman sachs. he's going to trump it, everybody bernie said.
he's going to say just release the transcripts and for whatever reason she doesn't want to release, it would be bad chatter. they're going to say you took the $600,000 and keep pounding that. i can see him doing that because it makes her the incumbent that cay. >> sure. i'm not sure he totally needs it. one of his great strengths so far, which one would expect to be a strength against him, against hillary going forward, is his ability to change the conversation. whatever it is that she wants to talk about or his republican opponents until now had wanted to talk about on any given day could be immediately hijacked his effective use of social media. by his ability to call in to any radio station or television station anywhere on the planet,
by his ability to do any number of things that made the conversation about him and about something that he wanted to say in the moment. >> he can tweet and it's a new story. very quick. >> one thing i would suggest is this campaign will redraw the typical ideological lines. you'll have campaign campaigning to the left of the democratic candidate on issues like trade, foreign policy, on issues like wall street. it will be this fascinating rescrambling of what we have come to expect from modern politics. >> he wants to be bully but also wants to make hillary the hawk. he will have to do some real scrambling. this is terra incognito. i don't think we've been here. nobody's been here before. nobody. thank you. coming up, bernie sanders pulls off a win in indiana, but what is his path forward many nomination fight?
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clinton just needs 17% which needs bernie sanders will need overwhelming margins or he'll need to persuade super delegates to change their allegiance to him. during the new york primary last month, sanders campaign ran its hardest hits campaign against clinton. let's watch that ad. >> while washington politicians are paid over $200,000 an hour for speeches, they oppose raising the living range to $15 an hour.
$200,000 an hour for them but not even 15 bucks an hour for all americans. enough is enough. >> donald trump said he plans to recycle sanders attacks like that in the general election. here is trump last week. >> bernie sanders has a message that's interesting. i'll be taking a lot of things that bernie said and using them. i can reread some of his
i can get some very good material. >> joining me is sanders campaign manager. this ad, i was taken with it. it shows a picture of the u.s. capitol and says washington politicians, those who work in that building, get $200,000 an hour for speeches. they pose the minimum wage going up to 15. you've worked on the hill. senators know they're not allowed to take money for speeches. why would you put an ad out that says they take huge amounts of money for speeches when you know that's not the case? >> look, you and i have travelled this ground before. >> go on. just explain it again. >> i'm happy to. washington politicians, including people who were in congress who have been in the government -- >> why do you share the capitol? >> that's in washington, chris. >> two kinds of people work in the capitol building. neither of which are allowed to
take money. >> former senators are. >> does it say that in the ad? >> you're reading more into it. >> no i'm not. anybody watching this knows what i saw. washington politician, picture of the u.s. capitol take $200,000 for speeches. simple, fact, claim. indicting washington for taking money. you know senator, including your boss and yet you run this ad. >> former senators can and do. we know that's true. >> that's not what you wrote in the ad. let's talk about trump using your guys stuff. you think he will? >> trump will do whatever trump will do. a lot of this stuff we would never go near with a ten-foot pole but the republicans will and they will any way. you know donald trump will say and do anything. >> do you think he has that advantage in.
>> no. i'm sure there's a lot on him. the clinton people are very good at that. the democratic party is very good. we try to keep the campaign on the issues. >> what has hillary used against senator sanders? >> what is that? >> what has hillary done on developing negative information on senator sanders? what has she used against you? >> there's been plenty. i get a lot of calls. those guys are pumping out stuff day and night. i know it's all off the record and you're not allowed to talk about it. that's the true. >> brock is for hillary? >> yes. david brock runs correct the record. an affiliated super pac with hillary's primary campaign fund. they acknowledge they coordinate. >> let's talk about this end game. let's be very optimistic for
your candidate. there's a lot of fans watching right now. what would work for him in i know outside factors could come in. something terrible in this investigation. things could happen. if they don't happen from outside the process, i watched senator sanders last night saying this will go on. how does it go on here from philly in july. i think jane sanders has been great. there's a lot of spirit in your campaign. how does that carry you to victory? how does it work? explain it to your own people right now. >> look, this is how it works. there's a number of contest, in fact, most of the contests are very favorable to the senator. the largest eight is coming up. california is coming up. bernie sanders will narrow secretary clinton's lead in pledge delegates. when we arrive this philadelphia, neither candidate will have the number of pledge delegates. when you get there, nobody has won yet.
during the course of the convention are able to weigh in on this. i know you're talking about this 18% or whatever it is. it's all she has to win. that's assuming all those pledge or unpledged super delegates stay with her. there's no guarantee of that. >> i agree. >> what's that? >> i agree with you. you hope you'll be able to win over the super delegates. i've heard senator sanders make that point. here's the question. what's the difference down the road say between now and november if you guys, i think you can do this, won in california. that's going to be the cherry on the sundae. if you can win in california and it's a state that democrats care about. if you can win there, what does that give you going into philly? what does it give you in terms of platform, perhaps participation. what does it give you if you win california?
>> well, i think if we win california gives the senator a lot of momentum going into the convention to talk to the super delegates about the need to nominate the candidate who can best deal with donald trump, which the polls show bernie sanders does better than donald trump than secretary clinton. there's nothing that's contrary to that. that's one element to it. he's going to go in and talk about the platform. very interested in the platform so that the democratic nominating process becomes a more open and inclusive. that's something he feels strongly about. >> how about a trade? i want to recommends a trade. get rid of the caucuses, conventions and states and the super delegates. that would be grand bargain. it would hurt the left in some places. wouldn't that be great? clean up, make it democratic, lower case d. isn't that a great deal? isn't that a great deal?
make one person, one vote really matter. no more caucuses or conventions. every vote matters. i think it's a deal. >> you'll be there at the convention advocating for it. >> i can see that. caucuses are great for people like us that love politics. thank you. up next, the roundtable is coming here to react to the day we all thought wouldn't happen so quickly or at all. donald trump is the presumptive nominee for president of the united states. you're watching hardball, the place for politics. [ cheering ]
they're not sending their best. they're bringing drugs, crime. they're rapist. he's not war hero. he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured. there was blood coming out of her eyes. blood coming out of her where ever. the pope says something negative about me. who cares. i watch this lightweight rubio, total lightweight. little mouth on him. bing, bing, bing. i love the old days. you know what they used to do to guys like that in place like this, they'd be carried out on a stretcher. i'd like to punch him in the face. his father was with lee harvey oswald prior to oswald being shot. the whole thing is ridiculous. what is this? nobody even brings it up. >> you know that was just yesterday. this is all fresh meat. joining me is the hardball round
table. tim, every once in a while i get the feeling the door has been slammed in this guy's face. he can be president of the united states and that's another day in the life of donald trump. >> i think every step along the way a lot of pundits said this can't happen. when the field became smaller he would be eliminated on the contested convention would eliminate him. >> the way we look at things in popular culture, do we just dismiss everything. it's like every ten minutes it doesn't matter what happened ten minutes before. >> i don't know. we have a memory for day, two days. >> part of it is just the jujitsu that donald trump was done that was referenced earlier. he's able to quickly pivot off
these nefarious statements. i think we the media, need to take a critical look at how we dealt with donald trump and the statements he's made that have not -- >> we tried to nail him down. i tried. i just think, serious, yesterday, he said on fox and friends on fox that rafael cruz was pictured with lee harvey oswald before the killing. this is a horrendous thing. it's like an alarm. today when asked about it, he said i just mentioned something in the papers. this is the weird part. the ability to skip away from something as if he didn't say it. >> i don't want to underestimate the success donald trump has had, but i don't think we should overestimate it. >> could he say that could kill him.
>> what he has said has taken a toll. maybe not with republican primary voters, but he is the at least popular person in american political life. the voters who haven't had a chance to weigh in, this has taken a toll. i don't think the american people are going to make him their next president. he is the nominee of the republican party but that doesn't mean he will be president of the united states. >> i agree with that. what about the republicans who are backing now like john mccain is backing him. nikki haley, susan collincollins a lot of who most of us consider regular people, solid political leaders. his authenticity, his ability to speak against political correctness makes him authentic. that gets him away -- you know what i mean. >> the other industry he's blowing up is the d.c. advisors because he hasn't listened to them from the beginning. you see that in a lot of comments he's made.
he didn't come out and try to hide the fact he's a billionaire. he said i'm a billionaire. i've been inside this system. i can rework it from the inside. he didn't try to misrepresent himself. i think his message coming back to it's always about the economy, he made it very simple. he said i'm going to get in there and call up the executives and them if they keep shipping jobs overseas and slap them with fines. >> i think there's a lot of ill there. he may be authentically toward hispanic people, women, the pope. a lot of people like hispanics, women and the pope. >> a lot of people don't believe he believes it. they think it's a show. they think it's a con. the roundtable is sticking with us. up next these three will tell me something i don't know, which is easy. this is hardball, the place for politics.
we're back. tell me something i don't know. >> everyone's all upset that hillary clinton lost last night. i don't think these late losses have any impact on how she's going do in the fall. >> we in d.c. -- >> that was the same with jimmy carter too. >> i feel like have an idea of the average trump voter he's this angry guy who sucker punches people at rallies, but i was in west virginia last week. west virginia is trump country. he's leading by 27 points. i saw a different side of this. this is the state that has the highest overdose rates, drug addiction, babies born on drugs. there's a sympathetic side to
this. >> trump claims they raised $6 million for the veterans. they don't know where that is. he needs to be held accountable of where that's gone and how much they raised. >> who is looking at this besides you? >> i think a lot of outlets have been trying to track it for a long time. >> keep it up. thank you. hardball is back after this.
okay. you're going to be on the beach this summer and you want a book that you want to actually read every page of because you can't resist it. here it is. our next guest has served an amazing career as a u.s. secret service agent. he worked under and protected five presidents and his new book "five presidents my extraordinary journey" he reports on some of the most important times of our history. this is the kind of book that everybody wants to read because it's the inside that you lived. i have to ask you, kennedy says there's a reason people read these kind of books. what was kennedy look. >> very nice guy and knew all the agents by their first name and knew if they were married or
had children. >> what about ike? >> we were kind of like his troops. he didn't know our names, but he said hey agent and we'd respond. but he was a wonderful guy to schedule because if we told him we had to leave at 9:30 he was there at 9:29. >> let me ask you about johnson? what was he like because he was kind of gross at times. i've heard stories. >> very unpredictable. you never knew what he was going do. his thought was that surprise was his best defense. so if he didn't let anybody know what he was going to do, then he was better off. >> if somebody announced they were going to be named by him for a big job and they announced it they didn't get the job. >> true. >> i thought nixon was troubled and smart. what did you think.
>> he was smart but he had a split personality. public personality and then a private one. he was a lone r. >> why didn't he use the oval office. >> he wanted to use that office alone and nobody would bother him there. >> he had a pullout bar in his closet we found. there's nixon's pullout bar and it was kind of strange. >> very strange. he had was a different kind of guy. >> let me ask you about the as sass nation of kennedy and you hear this candidate donald trump saying that cruz's father had something to do with if. to me it's an iconic tragic event in our history and i don't like thinking about it. >> apparently this came from a photograph that was taken in which somebody alleges was
cruz's father in this photo. i think we have been in many photos where they could make all kinds of allegations. there are people in a photo that you probably didn't know who did some pretty horrible things probably at some time. >> i'm with you. i think it's a joke. let me ask you about the changing status of the president. when you went in there as a young guy when ike was there, the presidency was so high to me. it was like the guy won world war ii and then he came in and the presidency was to me awesome. is it still awesome? >> in a sense, but it's lost its flavor. it's not as -- the respect isn't there like it used to be. with eisenhower it was worldwide and i don't think that's the case today. >> that's too bad. this is the kind of book you actually read every page of because you want to know what
these guys were like and thank you for your service. >> thank you. >> you're a great man to do this. it's called "the five presidents." join us tomorrow night. chris hayes is on right now. tonight on all in. >> i suspend my campaign today. >> we are suspending our campaign. >> and then there was one. >> we're going to win big league, believe me. >> but will the gop unite behind the most disliked nominee in history. >> there's some people that i almost don't want their endorsement, republicans. >> i'm joined by one prominent conservative who now says i'm with her. then clinton's problem as she looks towards the general. >> i've got some bad news for her. >> plus, the great big lie that doomed ted cruz's campaign. >> okay lying ted. >> and total pundit fail. i'll speak with a columnist who vowed to eat his words if trump one the primaren