tv Lockup Indiana--- Extended Stay MSNBC May 7, 2016 12:00am-1:01am PDT
live a life of gang-banging, drug-selling, womanizing and street-hustling. >> they always are asking for >> they always are asking for seconds. >> how are those eggs? >> they're not the best, but it's better than nothing. >> institutional eggs might not be considered comfort food, but few things at indiana state prison are meant to provide comfort. if anything comes close, it's visitation. >> you've both been here before, right? >> yes, ma'am. >> visitation is a valued privilege for inmates, but it can also be abused.
it's the most common route for contraband to enter the prison. >> there's going to be a visitor bringing contraband on a noncontact visit. >> an anonymous tip has internal affairs on high alert. >> if a pass takes place, we're going to stop the contraband. if it is felony contraband, we may look at doing an arrest today on a visitor. >> i'm known for gang-banging and calling shots and assaults and drugs and trafficking. that's been my whole makeup my whole life. i'm a criminal. i'm on idu which is the intensive detention unit. it's segregation. due to the fact that i'm on idu, i've got to have noncontact visits.
i don't get to touch my loved ones. i got to see them through glass and bars. >> as he is escorted to visitation, billy groves has no idea the visitor internal affairs has received a tip on is his girlfriend. >> i woke up like at 5:00, got up, shaved, brushed my teeth, because i'm going to see brandy. she is like the love of my life. so i'm smiling. i'm feeling good. it's a good day. i know everything's going to be perfect. >> groves' girlfriend, brandy graves, has just been picked up on surveillance cameras passing through security. claiming to have a back injury, she arrives in a wheelchair. >> okay, here we go. he's checking her out. checking her shoes. she's moving those legs pretty well. i don't know what we're anticipating on the visit. we've heard anything from tobacco to cell phones to cocaine, marijuana. >> she's refusing to get out of the chair. >> unable to complete their patdown, officers follow prison policy and turn brandy away, throwing a wrench in whelan's
plan for a bust. >> that lady in the wheelchair, go ahead and let her come on and visit. we think she has something on her. we have someone in the guard hall in case she tries to pass it. go ahead and tell her the visit is approved. tell her the shift supervisor said it was okay. thanks. now, if the information is right, she's supposed to pass something on this visit. if not, i'm going to sit here and watch about a two-hour-long visit for nothing. okay, here we go. she's going to be visiting right in that area. the offender is in a booth right on the other side of that wall. he's already been brought down from idu. >> as the visit begins, an officer escorts an inmate maintenance worker on to an elevator. >> the idu porter is right there. i see him going up all the time. he's going up to idu right now. if she's going to pass this off, she's going to pass this off to somebody. where is she going? she's going over to the elevator.
>> when the elevator door opens, brandy removes the pillow from her wheelchair and tosses it inside to the waiting maintenance worker. >> 32-5, 32, go. >> off the phone now! off the phone now! off the phone now! off the phone now! get your change. get your change. ma'am, stop. ma'am, stop. >> ma'am, stop right here. i'm going to be calling the local police. >> please don't. >> yes, i am, ma'am. >> please don't. >> i'm going to take you up to our office. >> please don't take me to jail. >> follow us, please.
what's your name? >> brandy graves. >> brandy, you understand we're recording our conversation, don't you? are you willing to make a statement and answer questions now without a lawyer? you don't want to talk? >> no. if i'm going to jail, i'm going to jail. why talk? >> is this just all tobacco? >> tobacco and phones. >> nothing else in here but tobacco and phones? >> that i know of. i didn't make it. >> i want you to go with ms. hill here. take her into the small interview room and sit down with her. each cell phone would be about $400 inside the prison wall. five pounds of tobacco there, about $100 an ounce.
looking at $1,600 per pound, times that by five. we don't even know how many cell phones we've got here. >> tell me why cell phones are such a problem in prison. >> for one, it's a way for them to communicate without us being aware of it. they can virtually do anything they need to. they could set up -- if need be, they could set up hits, let information out. >> i've got to make a couple of phone calls. i'm going to see if i can send somebody to jail today. >> brandy, tell me why this happened. >> because i'm struggling for rent. i have no job. i have nothing. my old man's in here. they're trying to keep him for 90 [ bleep ] years. i mean, it's stupid. >> why did you do it? why did you take such a big risk? >> because i didn't think i'd get caught. because i'm sick and tired of not having nothing. guess what? i'm gonna be right with him. i'm going to be [ bleep ] in
prison with him. >> prison officials, however, do not have the power to make an arrest. >> state police are en route to the facility right now. their supervisor will make a decision on the arrest. if she is not arrested today though, i will get with my prosecutor so we can pick her up next week sometime. but i'd rather see her go to jail today. >> we just got [ bleep ]. that's all that is. >> but brandy will get one break today. because the smuggling charge is only a misdemeanor, the state troopers have decided to not make an immediate arrest. but whelan will still pursue the matter. >> i get to go smoke a cigarette. i'm cool. i'm going to jail. ain't nothing i've never done before. >> she'll never be able to visit indiana department of corrections facility ever again.
coming up next on "lockup: extended stay," the contraband investigation turns to billy groves. >> you want to give me any statement on this or anything like that? >> i don't have anything to say. >> while another inmate remembers the last time he saw his folks. >> just after midnight when they arrived, i killed them both.
someone dies in your family, you can't go. you're stuck here, man. your mom and dad dies, you don't get a phone call. some priest comes over here to tell you your people died. it's crushing. >> as a late night thunderstorm envelopes indiana state prison, some inmates deal with past demons, while others contemplate the future. that's especially true for aaron brown. tomorrow, he's due to become a father, of sorts.
>> i am getting a cat. the prison has a program set up with a no-kill shelter and we're allowed to adopt cats. i've been waiting for about a month since i was told that i'm getting a cat. and i've actually wanted one since i got here in 2002. >> why? >> i've always liked cats. i think sometimes i like cats better than i like people. >> while a kitten might provide a sense of family, brown knows he will never see his own parents again. >> on the night of february 5th, 1994, i waited for my mom and my stepdad to get home. and just after midnight, i --
when they arrived, i killed them both. >> how? >> i shot them with a 12-gauge. i wish i had a good reason why i did what i did. because at least then there might be some way of justifying it. but there's not. there's no way of justifying what i did. >> what was so wrong that they had to be murdered? what was so wrong in your family? >> i have no idea. >> the night weighs heavily on billy groves as well. he's locked up in the intensive detention unit. >> this is the woman i love. this is me and her. that's me and brandy together. this is on our first visit. >> earlier in the day, groves' girlfriend, brandy, was caught
attempting to smuggle tobacco and cell phones into the prison during her visit with him. >> bring him over this way. >> the following day, groves is questioned by internal affairs. >> i'm going to ask you straight up, you want to give me any statement on this or anything like that? >> no. >> no statement at all? >> no statement at all. >> now, she went home friday. i didn't send her to jail. i'm going to get a warrant for her arrest for misdemeanor trafficking. it's all on you right now. do you understand that? >> yes. >> she'll never be allowed to visit at any prison ever again. all right. anything else you want to say? >> no. >> all right. go ahead and take him back to idu then. >> but alone in his cell, groves did have something to say. he used the camera our producer left with him to record personal
thoughts. >> i feel like so bad right now that i put her through what i put her through, risk my business and everything just for a few dollars. i guess you could say that i'm kind of scared that my whole world is going to fall apart. >> far from his world falling apart, michael bollenbacher is serving two years for burglary and is hoping his visit today will help him reconnect with his 2-year-old daughter, serenity. >> i got the scrabble piece, wax-coated and made it gloss. i can't really do too much for her. >> bollenbacher's father and stepmother have just arrived at the visitation center with serenity. >> she was born a month after i went to the county. so, pretty sad right there.
i know her but i'm afraid she don't know me that much. it's going to be a big adjustment when i get out. it's something to work for when i get out. >> are you ready for your picture? >> yeah. >> visitation is a busy time for inmate paul komyatti. he works as the prison photographer. >> keeps my mind occupied. keeps me not counting the 6,147 hours that i have left in here. however you want to break it down. >> one of komyatti's assignments today is to photograph michael bollenbacher's family. but since visitation always poses a security threat, the family, including 2-year-old serenity, must first pass through security. >> you're a princess.
pat you down. thank you. you're all done. >> you ready, young man? >> going to see daddy? >> daddy. >> daddy. >> my stomach's been twisting all morning waiting. >> feel that? pulse is up there. >> here we go. one more. oh, my god. >> his hair all long. >> i didn't even know that was him. >> my baby. >> happy birthday. >> hey. i ain't seen her for a while. i love you. >> who's that? is that dad? yes. >> as bollenbacher reconnects with his family, komyatti
arrives to capture the moment. >> i don't want to get that shot. she didn't take to him at first. she didn't want him to hold her. >> turn around here. look. >> we'll try later. we'll try later. fortunately, they get like a four-hour visit. so, hopefully, in the latter part of the visit, she'll be warmed up a little bit more to try again. >> but komyatti helps other families make the most of visitation. it's been 26 years since he's seen his own family. that's how long he's been in prison for participating in the murder of his father. >> my dad was an alcoholic. i was like a little kid, 7, 8 years old. i was crawled up under the kitchen table and he's got this belt with a buckle, putting marks all over my face and everything, all over my body,
i've got blood coming out and everything. my mom's like, look, you've got to stop, you're going to kill him. >> komyatti was 16 when he joined his sister and brother-in-law in a plot to murder his father. >> it was decided, well, okay, we'll go ahead, get some ether, knock him out and inject air into his veins to simulate a heart attack. well, that didn't work. he woke up. got to struggling. got to hollering. i was at the end of the bed. i was holding his legs down. and so then my brother-in-law pulled out a knife and he got to stabbing him. i guess at least 34 stab wounds. and that was pretty much it. >> komyatti's brother-in-law then dismembered the body in order to dispose of it. >> so your dad was in a bag? >> eight bags. >> they buried the bags in the woods. komyatti says his mother did not participate in the killing but helped cover it up. >> me and my mom went to trial together. they found us both guilty of murder, conspiracy to commit
murder. my brother-in-law ended up getting the death penalty. october 16, '85, he was executed. they had to actually fry him five times because i guess the electric chair wasn't functioning properly. mom's at the women's prison. she'll be 83 years old in about two weeks. she's -- as far as i know, she's the oldest woman prisoner in the state of indiana. >> now after more than 26 years behind bars, komyatti's time in prison is nearly over. he will soon be transferred to a community re-entry and work release facility in nearby south bend, indiana, a major step toward complete freedom. until then, he helps fellow inmates create better memories than his own. >> once she warmed up to him a little bit, it made for the perfect moment. i like that shot. coming up on "lockup: extended stay," the prison gets some new arrivals.
if you get caught in this grind here, this prison will eat you up and spit you out. it's crazy, man. this is my cat, cletus. he's crazier than hell. he loves ice cubes. he goes crazy. loses his mind. he's my partner. that's one of the many things they allowed us to do on death row was adopt a cat. he's real important to me. >> it's a big day for aaron brown. he, too, is about to receive a shelter cat. >> i've played with all the cats in here. but i've never had one of my own, and it's going to be different. i mean, this is something i'm going to spend years of my life with. and there's the responsibility aspect.
i mean, in my life, i haven't had a lot of other lives to take care of. you know, it's always been about me. >> brown has spent weeks preparing for his new cellmate's arrival. >> the first thing was to get places for the cat to be comfortable pretty much anywhere he wanted. got a cat bed there, right by the bars. cat scratch post right here. just a cardboard tube with some old carpet wrapped around it. more beds, another tube with old towel. this is a transit pole in case it can't actually jump up there. >> mr. moore is just coming back from the cat shelter. we've brought in five kittens. >> just like their human counterpart, the new arrivals must also pass security. >> search the items, the cat, the food, everything, make sure there's no contraband. then we'll take them back into the offenders. >> one is a small, gray female
destined for aaron brown. >> bring in 85 kittens. the offenders get attached to them. it's helped us a lot. some of these guys have never had anything to actually care for in their lives. if he misconforms, the cat can be taken away, sent back to the shelter. so if he gets a new class a or class b, he can lose that cat. >> this would be gia. she's tiny. [ kitten meows ] already rubbing up against me. she acts like we've known each other for a while. welcome home. coming up, paul komyatti's mouth threatens his transfer to a work release transfer program. and other inmates find themselves on the wrong end of a contraband crackdown. >> i saw a cell phone in the case as the defender was
i don't want this for anybody. this is no place for anybody to be. >> one of the benefits of indiana state prison's cat program is that inmates are motivated to behave because if they get sent to the hole, their cats stay behind. that's where darrell maymon comes in. >> friends that have cats, i go down and visit them and pet them and they see that i love animals. i'm not going to hurt their cat. that's the basic thing. because in here, cats -- like their buddies. you can get in worse trouble hurting somebody's cat than you can hurting an inmate. >> while maymon doesn't have a cat of his own, he keeps his cell cat-friendly in case the need for a sitter arrives. >> this is a cat bed. because they love to get up high. people come by and stick their
hand in and pet it. that's pretty much it. >> for some inmates at isp, cats are the closest things they have to families. paul komyatti hasn't seen his family since he first came to prison 26 years ago. he's soon to be transferred to a work release program, a transitional step to freedom. but there's a snag. >> let's go over to the office and we'll sit down and talk about the status of what's going on. >> anything bad or -- >> no, no, nothing bad. nothing great either. we'll talk about the status real quick. >> all right. >> komyatti, who helped murder his father, recently stuck up for another inmate he felt was being treated unfairly by a staff member. >> one of the problems we did have was that you made a comment down there to a counselor. >> i told this one counselor he was starting to remind me of my dad. in the context that he was just a miserable [ bleep ]. >> but when the counselor looked that up on your records, what all transpired --
>> in the context that it was said, you know, i'm not going to -- i'm not stupid enough to threaten anybody or anything like that. >> right. but the thing was, watch what you say. work on your case or your stuff instead of you worrying about other people. let's channel your energy with you. >> i was still in high school -- in my senior year of high school when i got locked up. i was 17 then. i didn't have any gray hair then. i'm 43 now. i've spent all my adult life in prison. i've never paid a bill out there. a lot of things i've never done at all. >> you should try to better yourself and get out of here. i understand that. i mean, i understand that you're trying to help other people in here. but when it comes to your case, let's stick with your case. >> if you hear anything, let me know. >> all right, young man, you have a good day. >> a delay in his work release program could also postpone another of his life goals, seeing his incarcerated mother before she dies.
>> i haven't seen her since we were sentenced in december of 1983. but once i make parole in may, i would hope that either -- if not that day, then the following day, i would get to see her. my mom will be 83 thursday of next week. >> all these are in prison? >> yes. indiana woman's prison. >> other offenders see their families frequently. in addition to regular visitation, the prison hosts an annual family day event. >> this is something the church put together, family day, so people can spend some time with their family and reunite. people trying to build bridges back that they lost before. >> this is my father, jerry, this is my mother, martha. >> we first met jerry bonds during our shooting of the original "lockup" at indiana state prison in 2006. >> to be honest, i grew up with a two-parent, middle-class home.
you know, my brother and my older brother, they all graduated from college. i just happened to go down a wrong road, was selling drugs and running the streets. >> at the time, our cameras captured another bonds' family visit. but due to a variety of disciplinary problems, it was a noncontact visit with his parents and three children. and jerry bonds, sr., was none too happy about it. >> i was upset at first. and i even threatened him to not even bring his kids up here. >> the last time we were on camera, we couldn't talk to him other than through a piece of glass. we couldn't touch him. so being able to come to a ceremony like this, it makes it all worthwhile. >> we all make mistakes. i mean, i have. >> i have a job. i work with a counselor. i'm her clerk. i've been doing that for the past maybe six months.
i've been staying out of trouble, staying clean. not getting into any altercations. and i've grown up a lot. >> i think he's learned his lesson. >> but trouble might be in store for billy groves, who is still under investigation for contraband. his girlfriend, brandy graves, attempted to smuggle a pillow stuffed with cell phones and tobacco into the prison. >> you have problems. you can sit here and say what you want to but you have problems. you know we're putting you into long-term seg? >> why? >> your safety and security. >> i ain't got no hits on me. >> you would be surprised. >> groves claims to know nothing about brandy's attempt to smuggle. authorities don't buy his story. they also believe he is in danger from other inmates who are upset that the poorly planned crime has cut off a major avenue of contraband trfficking.
>> i'm not stupid. >> if it's up to me, you'll be gone by friday. >> don't do that to me. i promise you, it ain't nothing like that. i ain't got no enemies. >> maybe you don't even realize it. >> i'm not that dumb. i ain't done it. that's what i'm saying. i ain't done it. >> you're starting to stutter a lot now. >> i stutter anyway. >> not like that. >> sometimes we're forced to do things that we really don't want to do. i feel like i had no other way out. would i do it again? yeah, i'd do it again. >> concerns over contraband, especially cell phones, have prompted a surprise prison-wide shakedown. >> he's in there flushing something.
he's refusing to shake down. hopefully he wasn't flushing a cell phone. obviously, he's got something in there. he doesn't want to come out. so we have to go in there and physically get him out. >> when i walked in, i saw a cell phone in a case. he was flushing the toilet, i reached in and tried to grab the cell phone and the case. i grabbed the case but the cell phone slipped out and flushed down the toilet. >> the crackdown on contraband suddenly takes an unexpected turn. and jerry bonds is taken in for questioning. >> we got a phone call from somebody on the outside saying that offender bonds threatened somebody on a cell phone. so me and the lieutenant are going to talk to him. >> got an outside call saying you were on a cell phone. do you know anybody by the name of vivian? >> man, hell, no. they need to call them people back and ask them who they are and how they know me. i don't know no vivian. this is bull right here, man. i'm offended by this, man.
i didn't do nothing. >> i'll call them and talk to them. >> please do. >> do you want me to lock him in for now? >> yeah. >> you're going to lock me in? >> yeah. >> bonds will be locked in his cell while the investigation continues. if the allegation is found to be true, he will most likely wind up in the intensive detention unit and go back to noncontact visits with his family. coming up, paul komyatti takes a major step toward freedom. and aaron brown and his cat attempt to help others.
a major crackdown on contraband, specifically cell phones, has left some indiana state prison inmates in a precarious position. for others, the future looks considerably brighter. after 26 years in prison, today is paul komyatti's last day at indiana state. authorities have approved his transfer to a minimum security facility with a work release program in nearby south bend. >> he's going to be going through a nine-month process of getting a job, of getting his driver's license and getting a car, trying to orient him back into society, slowly. >> it's behind me now. a lot of friends there. but nothing else about prison -- other than that, i'm ready to go. never see me in khaki again.
>> get your box. it's already been checked. >> i feel like a human being. i can finally wear clothes. that's part of the process to dehumanize you, put you in a khaki uniform where you're just a prisoner. now for people to see me in a suit, they're going to look at me like a human being now. it's a completely different life. >> okay, paul, once we get here, you're going to be meeting your counselor for the first time. you'll be meeting the custody staff. just listen to everything they have to say. take it slow. it is just like a mini-prison. it's a small facility. they have more or less the same rules as we have. >> though still in custody at the department of correction, komyatti will receive counseling on re-entering society. in the meantime, he will be allowed to work and be in public during designated hours.
>> police car. it's like they always are around. it's like a reminder. it's like, all right, there are still rules you have to go by. now you have to go by society's rules, too. just feels fresher out here, the air. i know it's the same air. but it's just fresher out here. >> while komyatti has taken a major step toward freedom, aaron brown's release date is much more uncertain. but his life in prison has seemingly taken a turn for the better. >> i'll sit around and pet her for hours. this morning she woke me up a little after 4:00. and i actually got up and just pet her for about an hour. >> it's been two weeks since brown adopted a kitten he has named gia. >> obviously, she's gotten
bigger. she's a little more feisty. she likes to play a lot more than when i first got her. when i first got her, all she wanted to do was cuddle. now, she's basically learned that she can get petted whenever she chooses. so i'm on her schedule now. i want her to be healthy. i want her to be happy. it's kind of like being the parent of a newborn, i guess. i've never had kids. but she's like my kid. >> as such, brown has enrolled gia in a training program to become a therapy cat. >> we're taking gia up to rtu, and basically going to let the guys up there, who are outside of population because of mental health problems, going to let them have some interaction with some cats. i've seen how the cats help people in population, the calming effect.
and i thought it would be kind of cool to let them guys have that interaction also. this is gia. >> gia? >> yeah. >> a little one. that's a beautiful little cat. >> she's 15 weeks old this week. >> 15 weeks? >> little kitty cat. >> she won't bite you. she's never bitten anybody. how long have you been back up here? >> about two months. >> look like you're going to come off soon? >> probably when school starts back. >> she's like, right now, i'm going to go explore again. >> all right, buddy. take care of yourself, man. >> you, too, man. be easy, man. >> appreciate it, man. >> i'll see if i can't try to bring her up a little more often for you guys. >> while gia is helping brown chart a new future, his past still contains unanswered questions.
specifically, what led him to murder his mother and stepfather? >> that's my mom and me. i was about 8, i think. this was '85. i don't remember those times. i don't remember her face as what it is in the pictures. for a long time, i kept telling myself that she was ugly and that she was just a bitch. and i think it was just a trick i taught myself so that i didn't have to face the facts. i miss her, but sometimes i wonder if i miss what should have been as opposed to what was. >> i'm still so perplexed, aaron, why you killed her. >> there's gia. >> coming up next on "lockup:
right now, i'm on my way to let offender bonds out. we just came up here, searched his room, couldn't find anything. now we're up here to let him out. >> good news has surfaced for inmate jerry bonds, who has been on key-lock status for suspicion of calling somebody outside the prison on a cell phone and threatening her.
>> i guess they put me on key-lock until they investigated the call. when they found out it wasn't true, they let me go. i don't know the person who called. they put me on key-lock for [ bleep ]. they said somebody called up here and said i threatened them. >> when they get the calls, they have to investigate it. don't sweat it. you've been on the straight and narrow and doing everything you're supposed to be doing, so keep up the good work and stay out of trouble. just don't let it get to you. >> i have to go back and suck it up. i mean, i don't know who did it. i can't do nothing about it. i can't get mad at them for doing their job. but it's an inconvenience over some nonsense that i ain't got nothing to do with. so, it is what it is. >> bonds vowed to his family that he will stay out of trouble is holding up. as for paul komyatti's new life outside isp, he has been in prison since 1983.
but for the past several weeks, he has been transitioning to freedom at a department of correction work release center. >> i've been here a little over a month. the anxiety level was a little frustrating because i wasn't allowed to leave the center initially. that's a normal process. but at the same time, i just wanted to get out and take that first step on the sidewalk. to see the traffic lights, to have the cars going behind me. >> the best news for komyatti is that he's landed a job. he works at a rubber molding and fabrication factory. >> i'm on a machine. and i'll inject rubber into a steel pipe. i'll put it in the oven, which is running at about 430 degrees. and it's on a carousel to roll around. i put that in the oven. the next pipe i pull, i put it on the soldering machine, take a pipe wrench, take the cap off, remove the rubber cord from there, put it in a box. put the cap back on and load it in the machine.
when i load it, i'll pull the next one and just back and forth all night long. the first day was an unmitigated disaster. i was completely wore out because i was doing everything probably backwards from what it needed to be done. but as i watched how other guys were doing it, i kind of persevered, made it through the day. one thing i try to do, i want my numbers to be higher every night than they were the night before. the last time i worked this machine, i did 626. that was a respectable number. but i've got to hit at least 627 tonight. i want to show consistent progress. my first 43 years, i kind of got the short end of the stick, if you would. but at the same time, without my first 43 hadn't been like this,
it's made me into the person i am. and i think it's going to give me one hell of an advantage for the next 43. you want to wake up with that attitude in the morning, that today's going to be a good day. today's going to be better than yesterday. >> billy groves might have a less optimistic outlook thanks to the failed attempt of his girlfriend, brandy, to smuggle cell phones and tobacco into the prison during a visit. >> he ended up going to the disciplinary hearing board. he was found guilty of trafficking. ended up getting a year of segregation. he's going to long-term segregation. he's going to get shipped out. he still has problems that he has to face here, even though he says he doesn't have to deal with them or there's no problems, he has problems. >> i try not to have regrets in life. but i kind of regret this move. brandy -- we still talk and we still communicate and stuff.
but my family's like real, real mad at her and stuff because of the situation. but she just signed up for college today to start college. maybe she'll get her life straight, too. >> so, was it worth it? >> no, it wasn't worth it. might have been worth it at that minute, but it wasn't worth it. in the long run, no, it wasn't worth it.
>> america's prisons. dangerous. often deadly. there are 2 million people doing time. every day it's a battle to survive and to maintain order. >> down on your feet. down. >> pendleton juvenile is the last stop in indiana. for young offenders who have committed serious crimes. we spent months inside. where the staff is determined to rehabilitate impulsive teams who are often angry and violent. this is "lockup: pendleton juvenile extended stay."