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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  May 10, 2016 12:00am-1:01am PDT

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tonight on "all in." >> all of the men, we're petrified to speak to women nominee. >> the war on women begins. >> everything is about women and donald trump raised his voice. >> donald trump going to hillary by way of her spouse. >> there is nobody worse than bill clinton with women. >> the presumptive nominee goes ugly early. tonight, hillary clinton responds and michael moore whether or not the republican civil war is good for democrats. donald trump caught negotiaing with himself on raiing taxes. >> to the wealthy, i think frankly it's going to go up. >> the department of justice officially goes in on north carolina. >> the state sanctioned discrimination, never looks good and never works in hindsight. >> "all in" starts right now. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. having all but secured the nomination of a party that
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struggled for years to engage and win over women voters, especially in presidential election years, donald trump spent his first weekend as the gop's presumptive nominee leaning in for lack of a better term to the war of women. one women in particular, like any with a long career in public life, hillary clinton has an extensive record with plenty of material for possible substantive criticism. that does not appear to be trump's approach. instead he's making his attack on clinton's gender arg guing she is effectively an affirmative action case and wouldn't have reached these heights if her gender hand offered a leg up. >> she's effectively playing the women's card. if she didn't play the women's card she would have no chance, zero winning. >> and he says she should be held liable for her husband's conduct including her own conduct. >> there was nobody worse, nobody, than bill clinton with
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women. nobody. in this history of politics, hillary clinton's husband abused women more than any man that we know of in the history of politics, right? she's married to a man who hurt many women. hillary, if you look, hillary hurt many women, the women he abused. here's a guy, he was impeached because he lied. he lied. remember the famous, did not have sex with that woman and a couple of months later, i'm guilty. she's taken negative ads on me! >> trump even veered towards men's rights activist territory accuing clinton of using political correctness to muzzle men's point of view. >> she's playing the women's card, she's going, did you hear that donald trump raised his voice while speaking to a woman? oh, i'm sorry.
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i'm sorry. i mean, all of the men, we're petrified to speak to women any more. we may raise our voice. women get it better than we do. >> this appears to be part of an actual strategy, possible? maybe, we don't know. it's not just lashing out. the guy supposed to be making him more presidential for the general election, top aide, paul manafort defended his approach. >> the history is clear, she's been an enabler in the past. he made it very clear he would not let hypocrisy exist on the women's issue. he is not anti-women, and pro women and he has proven it in his business life more than her, with actions not words. for him to prove she's anti-women, she will show it.
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>> hillary clinton was asked for her reaction to trumps a personal attacks. >> i will let mim run his campaign however he chooses. i will run my campaign, which is about a positive vision for our country. >> you're responding with substance? >> i'm running my campaign. i'm not running against him. he's doing a fine job doing that himself. >> it's unclear how long trump will stick with this line of attack as his main argument against hillary clinton and how much it will affect results this fall. this worsens what was already a serious branding problem for the gop. democrats haven't lost a women's vote in a presidential election since 1988 and moved to press that advantage over high profile battles of substantive issues like reproductive rights and health care access and with rush limbaugh and failed senate candidate richard murdoch and todd akin. frustration and indignation of what they insist is a false narrative created solely and cynically for political gain.
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>> we have a president that says if you're pro-life you're waing a war on women. >> democrats spent a lot of time trying to cop kokt a war on women. >> the war on women i agree is contrived totally. i don't think there is a war on women. >> the democrats, i think, in agency in of the anger of women in america saying oh republicans are waing a war on women. >> i don't want to hear about the phony war on women. first, i am a women and, second, i have been to war and this is not a war. >> now, the republican party has chosen as its standard bearer somebody that embodies the very caricature they refute. joining us jennifer brown and michael steele, former chairman of rnc and now msnbc political analyst. >> michael, i remember during the peak heat of war on women, many saying it's totally libelous and ridiculous if we have the quote catholic church's
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official position that's a war on women, there are many women who hold that position. now, take that, you have a guy saying, hillary clinton is basically only there, secretary of state, u.s. senator, watergate commission when she was very young, yale law grad is only there because she is a women. that is a tough argument, i think? >> it is a tough argument. i won't come on this program and try to defend it because you don't in that sense. her record is what it is and her pedigree politically as well as personally is what it is. this is where i kind of see what donald trump, i think, is trying to do. this is a drawing out measure. i think donald trump is less interested in a head to head response from hillary clinton and actually more interested in
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a response from bill clinton. >> right. >> i think that, you know, we saw what happened the last time mr. clinton got drawn out into this kind of discussion, and thick this is an early testing of that, to see exactly how far they can go, he can go with this and whether or not bill comes into the frey, if you will. i don't think -- i don't put too much stock where all of this goes. you asked the right question, you know, how long does this strategy hold up, how long does he do this? i don't think long. i think by next week he will have moved on to something else or someone else. if this doesn't draw out or get the kind of response he's looking for. >> jennifer, your response to that? >> i can't even fathom what his strategy is although that's a plausible interpretation. >> that's the most charitable interpretation. >> when you think about the fact 70% of women have an unfavorable
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opinion of him and he continues down this path i'm not sure this will get him what he wants. i know this, this attack on her provides her the opportunity to say, hey, i am not going to engage in personal insults but what i am going to do is i am going to go after you on the policy differences that we have, which is why when she was in kentucky and northern virginia today she was talking about universal pre-k, talking about parental leave and childcare and things women care about and families care about and things donald trump has opposed, including minimum wage and choice. she will use this as a chance to say, i am fighting for these women. you can attack me but i'm going to fight for women. that is a nice contrast for her. >> i agree with that. here's the problem with that, it strikes me, michael. you say has opposed, true, he said things in the past pennsylvaniaing. as we're -- opposing.
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we learned in our next block of television what should the next tax rate be is an impossible riddle because it changes every hour. what do you think about this? i think the rnc platform ends up taking on more importance than it does this year for this reason. there's not a single vote that trump has cast or veto he has issued or position he has overseen as a member of public service, public servant he is stuck to. the platform will be the closest thing in righting, when you say do you or do you not favor de-funding planned parenthood and should there be exceptions for rape and incest? >> i think you put your finger on the heart beat of what will drive a lot of folks crazy in cleveland. that is the platform. i think that's where the real fight is. donald trump is a populist brand he brings to this argument.
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it's not conservative, we know that. let's not pretend. the reality is how does he take that vision, philosophy, whatever it is, the language he's brought to this conversation so far and embue that into -- infuse it into the platform on issues like abortion and so forth? >> the establish, right? he doesn't care about the platform. you think he will come out of cleveland and start mouthing the platform. >> that's not the point. >> answer the question whether the republican nominee for president believes in for instance exceptions in the case of rape and incest for abortion. that is a substantive question someone has to answer at some point. >> his answer may be different than the platform, though. >> it very well may be. as the leading choice here for the party, he's going to have his fingerprints on that document as well.
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>> he will. here's what i think people will be looking at. glen kessler from the "washington post," the fact checker had a really interesting column this past weekend saying donald trump is by far and away the most lying candidate, got the more four pinocchios, the worst kind of lie of all the candidates, 70% of the statements he's made have been fact checked and found to be lies. in addition to, you know, nailing jell-o to the wall on where he stands on issues, this lying issue, and by the way, hillary clinton was found to be the most truthful of all the 2016 candidates contrary to what he keeps saying, that issue i think will be a really interesting one if you get a chance to talk to him and for others as well. >> before michael responds let me make a tiny correction. it was 70% of statements they checked not 70% of totality of statements. so we're clear. >> it would be more probably. >> i was going to say that number one and number two, i appreciate what you just said, governor, but i bet you that's not how this election plays itself out.
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i think when you get into that contest with hillary clinton who was the establish representative on both sides in this contest and donald trump, the outsider, that's the real battle. i agree, 70% of women don't like him, and that poll included republican women and independent women and democrat women, he's still winning contests when his name is on the ballot and women are voing for him. no one knows how it will play outside. >> she will fight for women. >> michael, let me say this, i like you, genuinely like you. i'm not going to do what i've been want tock do with all republicans on the show, take all the howard stern quotes and read them and ask if they agree or disagree, is it impossible for flat-chested women be a 10. >> i'd love to see that. >> i totally get that. i'm saying something else is going on bigger and at play and i'm curious how that plays out
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with hillary and donald one-on-one. >> jennifer talked about nailing to it the wall. there are substantive issues that have to be reckoned with and we have to try to keep the focus on them as much as possible and debatable on both sides. thank you so much. up next, donald trump, caught in a vicious policy fight with donald trump and we'll tour his shifting stance on taxes and transgender rights, likening north carolina's bathroom bill to jim crowe. first, a sheriff in gavin county confirms one person has been killed by a large tornado that touched in oklahoma and several buildings been destroyed. the latest on that. do not go anywhere. >> the medical examiner is on
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scene as well as the county depuies there.
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over the course of this campaign, presumptive gop nominee donald trump has been engaged in a near furious back and forth negotiaing session over economic policy with himself. this morning, trump tried to rework his own suggestion, one widely derided by economists that the u.s. could negotiate our debt on bonds something that was said to be an insane idea and bankrupt the economy. he said they misrepresent his position. >> people said i want to buy debt and default on debt. they're crazy. this is the united states government. you never have to default because you print the money, i hate to tell you, okay. >> this is true and a welcome bit of honesty you never hear from politicians. make america great again by devaling its currency is a somewhat novel approach for a republican presidential nominee.
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then, there's wages and he once suggested they're too high and should remain at $12.75 per hour. >> tax as to high and wages too high, we're not going to be able to compete against the world, i hate to say it we have to leave it the way it is. >> yesterday, he suggested the minimum wage is too low but would not commit to raiing it to the federal level. if you follow his logic he said the federal wage should be zero. >> i don't know how people make it on $7.25 an hour. with that being said, i would like to see an increase of some magnitude. i'd rather leave to it the states. let the states decide. the states have to compete with each other? >> you want the federal set a floor and let the states -- >> no. i'd rather have the states go out and do what they have to do. states compete with each other and not only other countries, compete with each other, i like the idea of let the states decide.
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i think people should get more. >> that brings us to trump's tax plan. in september, trump unveiled a massive tax plan, with the top 1 opinions seeing a tax cut of$1 million according to the policy center. since then trump claimed if he was president taxes on the rich would actually go up. >> do you believe in raiing taxes on the wealthy? >> i do. i do. including myself, i do. >> for the wealthy, i think it's going to go up. it should go up. >> do you want taxes on the wealthy to go up or down? >> they may go up a little bit. >> they're going down in your plan? >> but by the time they're negotiated they will go up. >> he said he's saying taxes on the rich in the end would go down but by a smaller amount than his initial plan suggests. >> i'm not talking about a tax increase, i'm talking about a tremendous tax decrease.
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i could see the wealthy getting rich. i'm not talking raise from where they are now, talking about raise from my low proposal. >> almost like he tells whatever interviewer he's in front of whatever they want to hear. in response to this, hillary clinton held a campaign to press the point trump still wants to give rich people like himself a tax cut regardless what he may have said yesterday and this is the challenge the clinton camp faces, you can spend hours parsing trump's stance on an issue without knowing what he actually stands for. and we asked a supporter on the clinton campaign how to deal with that. >> you stand strong. support the minimum wage and close the interest loophole that benefits wall street hedge fund managers and focus on what needs to be said. i think trump will screw himself into the ground by saying incomprehensible things about the minimum wage.
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he's saying americans make too much money. now he says think about the minimum wage and let the states do it he doesn't want to raise it and doesn't put a number on it. you don't get in that game he's trying to be both sides on social security, minimum wage and all sides on corporate taxes and tacking upper income people. it's up to secretary clinton to straight out say what she's going to do and voters will be attracted to that and believe her over time and not really understand except for the 30% that are automatically going to be for trump no matter what he says. they're not going to believe him in the end. >> you're in a rust belt state, the kind of state when folks try to think through a scenario in which trump would be maximally competitive with secretary clinton, it's states like yours they think he would have to put in play. you have someone totally unat the time erred by a voing record, no bills he ever vetoed
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or tax or hike cuts he ever passed, do you fear him being able to essentially get to whatever position he needs to to talk to the voters in your state on trade or outsouring while it's convenient and that message resonating? >> first, i don't represent a rust belt state. i represent a state with high-tech manufacturing and all sorts of other things. start with that, my friend. >> a dynamic global state with a booming economy, but also experienced manufacturing loss. >> of course, as the whole country has, good point. i think the trump -- i spent a lot of time last week when we were out of session, i spent a lot of time talking to labor union members and white working class and african-american working class people, they hear what trump says on trade and they generally like it although he doesn't put anything specific
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and increasingly learning he is outsouring manufacturing jobs for his own cloting line and other things. they also understand he's against minimum wage, against prevailing wage, he's for right to work, for all the things or against all the things that matter to labor. he's not going to wear well there. he can say slap a tariff on china and he can engage in his jinglism about other kris. hillary is in the right place and i trust her to do the right thing on manufacturing and trade policy. she will win ohio like she won ohio big in the primary. i expect that and virtually certain of that but it will take a lot of work. >> one thing interesting to watch from a substantive standpoint to the extent there's been substances, trump has not been banging on about the need to reign in retirements and social security and medicare, made a few noises but generally
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deviated from republican orthodoxy on that. you have a nominee sitting trustee to be nominated on the social security trustee board you are opposing because you feel the desire to cut and privatize that program still persists even after that political program seems to be totally won by your side. >> there's no question that wall street and their republican sic offense and minions in congress and house an senate, they so much want to get their hands on social security and privatize. they will never give up. that's the big fight about social insurance. they will never quit on that no matter how many times we win. this guy is the guy, charles, that helped to write the script for george bush's bill, helped draft the talking points. he wants to be a trustee. trustee means you are entrusted to protect social security and not make speeches all over the country how to privatize and
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undermine and raise the retirement wage and cut benefits. trump is part of that. trump says he wants to make a deal on social security. i don't want a deal. social security is a covenant and promise president roosevelt made every president since then has by and large stuck to. george bush got off the rails but everybody else stuck to. we're not going to elect a president that wants to make a deal on social security, we're going to elect a president that will protect it period. >> senator sherrod brown. coming up, the obama administration sues north carolina over the so-called bathroom bill, a powerful message. i'll play those comments ahead. why pause to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain,
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the infighting in the republican party over its presumptive nominee still looms large. paul ryan, literally the most powerful person in america, second in succession to the presidency of america being used as a pinata at his rallies after ryan said he could not yet endorse trump. >> paul ryan, i don't know what happened. i don't know. >> i didn't get paul ryan. i don't know what happened. i don't know what happened. i've gotten tremendous endorsements. i didn't get it from ryan, though, can you imagine? that's a hard one. >> trump surrogate and ally, sarah palin said she will do whatever she can to help oust speaker ryan in a republican primary. >> i think paul ryan is soon to be cantored, as in eric cantor. his political career is over but for a miracle because he has so disrespected the will of the
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people. >> the man running against ryan in the republican primary in august seen here riding a motorcycle is businessman who challenged paul to debate and arm-wrestle him. speaker ryan himself offered to step down as chairman of the gop convention if trump asked him to. >> if he asked you to step down from the convention, would you? >> i'll do whatever -- he's the nominee. i'll do whatever he wants with respect to the convention. the point i would make is i just think it's important all wings of the party come together to get ourselves at full strength. >> one suspects ryan hopes he gets taken up on that offer. donald trump may be seen as abomination by many in the republican party. there is a case to be made the further he gets away from the republican party the better his chances.
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the battle over north carolina's extremely controversial so-called bathroom law which requires transgender people to use bathrooms that correspond to the sex identified on their birth certificate in probably the biggest high profile civil rights ever. pat mccrory announced his suit today in response to the judgment department's letter last week that gave the state until the close of business today to stop implementation or
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compliance with the law because it violates the federal civil rights act. >> i do not agree with their interpretation of federal law. that is why this morning i have asked a federal court to clarify what the law actually is. >> a few hours later, attorney general loretta lynch, a north carolina native, responded by announing the justice department's own lawsuit. >> we are filing a federal civil rights lawsuit against the state of north carolina. governor pat mccrory, the north carolina department of public safety and the university of north carolina. we are seeking a court order declaing hb2's restroom restriction indiscriminatory and state wide bar on its enforcement. >> the attorney general did something i have never ever seen a high level official do in my lifetime, she made a full throated defense of rights and equality of transgender citizens. >> what we must not do and never
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do is turn on our neighbors and family members and fellow americans for something they cannot control and deny what makes them human. this is why none of us can stand by when a state enters the business of legislaing identity and insists that a person pretend to be something or someone that they are not, but no matter how isolated, no matter how afraid and no matter how alone you may feel today, know this, that the department of justice and indeed the entire obama administration want you to know that we see you, we stand with you and we will do everything we can to protect you going forward. >> former deputy assistant attorney general for civil rights at the dodge and staff attorney for lbgt aides projects. this felt historic to me. am i wrong? has any made that full throated argument at that level of government?
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>> i agree, this was a big deal. just last year we thought it was a big deal president obama said the word transgender. here we are today with this very powerful very affirming defense of transgender people at the moment they are literally under attack. it was moving and critical and came at the exact right time. >> you worked at the department of justice helping enforce civil rights law. the act and title 7 and title 9 that has to do with education permits the kind of law north carolina's passed. what do we know about what courts have said about this? >> i do think at this point, chris, it's pretty clear certainly in the fourth circuit, eeoc and justice department all agree transgenders people are protected against discrimination in employment title 7 and in the schools, title 9 and for a long time they have been protected in identity and expression going
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back to the late '80s and early title 7 cases. i think the law is pretty clear and the justice department is putting their muscle behind a really important principle. >> this now becomes a huge legal and political fight. we have the federal government sing a state to overturn a state law. is the stuff of all of them some of the most iconic civil rights battle in history and this comes now in this election year. >> i'm sorry. chase, go ahead. >> obviously this is an incredibly political moment when this is happening. as mentioned, this is a long standing legal principle. sex gender has been ruled by the courts over and over again. we're seeing state level politicians digging in to a discriminatory view about transgender people and calling the question and governor mccrory says he's the one being bulied but the reality is transgender people are being bulied by state legislature in a
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widespread way we haven't seen before. >> does this end up before the supreme court and if so is there supreme court jurisprudence on this specific issue of transgender rights specifically? >> i don't think this ends up before the court, i don't know, chase, if you have more information about this. i think this will end up getting resolved in the lower courts is my guess and maybe even out of court as the attorney general suggested in her press conference. it is classic civil rights work and classically great civil rights work for the department to stand up against state laws that are discriminatory. they're doing it twice in north carolina. this is not the only lawsuit suing north carolina for having a reactionary law. it could go to the court, of course, but the hope is this can
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be resolved so we can protect the rights and dignity of transgendered people all over the country. >> briefly, there's a law in mississippi my sense is just as bad on the merits, the sense the department of justice hasn't worked through the process enough to weigh in on that? >> we did see -- >> i don't know where they are on this. i do know the attorney general said they were looking at other similar laws. to the extent they exist. what was interesting, too, chris, this was a preemption issue as well. north carolina reached out for this issue because charlotte had had -- >> to preempt charlotte. >> right. charlotte had an ordinance that was going to clarify to make sure they were protecting appropriately the transgender population. north carolina reached out for this fight in kind of a very audacious way. i do think the department is looking at other laws around the country and this moment is a time for -- i think i saw there was some place that actually repealed part of the law that was going to discriminate against transgendered people in response to this. this is all good. >> you have a lawsuit against mississippi? >> we sued mississippi today for hb 1523, a lawsuit that allows for discrimination based on
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sincerely held religious beliefs that you don't believe transgender people exists, you don't believe in sex outside a marriage and don't believe marriage is anything but with a man and woman. >> and this is a private right of action you guys are sing here, not the department of justice but they may weigh in as well? >> yes. >> thank you so much for joining us tonight. coming up, guess which donald trump endorser called him an ego unstable maniacal madman a year ago. i'll tell you next. for our call center. i'm spending too much time hiring and not enough time in my kitchen. (announcer) need to hire fast? go to ziprecruiter.com and post your job to over 100 of the web's leading job boards with a single click. then simply select the best candidates from one easy to review list. you put up one post and the next day you have all these candidates. makes my job a lot easier. (announcer) over 400,000 businesses have already used ziprecruiter. and now you can use ziprecruiter for free. go to ziprecruiter.com/offer6
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the past couple of days we've seen a few prompt republicans and conservatives announce to the world exactly
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where they landed on the donald trump acceptance meter. some remain in the never trump category while others have come out on the trump curious bandwagon a short trip to maybe, and okay, fine and the brave group planted themselves in the firmly trump category. last week we told you about texas governor and two time presidential hopeful rick perry who once compared trump to cancer seemed to be solidly in the trump category and he announcd saturday not only is he open to the cancer he's open to being on the cancer ticket. bobby jindal one of his former rivals for the nomination is re-evaluaing where he is. here is a reminder where he stood previously. >> donald trump is not a serious candidate. he's a narcissist, ego maniac, non-serious, carnival act, he is shallow and has no idea what he's talking about, makes it on the fly. donald trump is for donald trump, a narcisist and egomaniac, an entertaining narcisist but still a narcisist. donald trump is insecure and weak. donald trump is not a serious
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person, this is a carnival act. >> i will give you 60 seconds to figure out where donald trump is now on the acceptance meter. but you probably won't need the full minute.
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i think it's pretty outrageous for him to be attacking anybody's appearance when he has a squirrel sitting on his head. >> where former louisiana governor bobby jindal sat on the acceptance meter. a long walk of acceptance who came out in favor of the presumptive nominee. i'm voing for trump, water and all on the "wall street journal," i think electing donald trump would be the second worst thing we could do this november better only than electing hillary clinton for a third term of the obama administration policies. i do not pretend donald trump is the reaganesque leader we so desperately need but he is
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certainly the better of two bad choices. hardly an inspiing slogan, i know.
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don't j. trump is calling for a total and complete shut-down of muslims entering the united states until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. [ applause ] >> we have no choice. we have no choice. >> donald trump has vowed to ban foreign muslims from entering the country, became an early hallmark of that campaign and now backing away from that position as early trump -- and not backing way from that position. he reaffirmed it. >> do you stand by the example of a ban on foreign muslims coming in? >> i do. we have to be vigilant and strong and a big problem in the world. you look at europe and germany,
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crime riddled right now. >> the proposed policy, if you can call it that, would ban over a billion people from traveling to the united states. that presumably would include the newly elected mayor of london, the first muslim mayor of londonistan by the openly friendly anti-muslim drudge report. he was sworn in becoing the first muslim mayor in london's history and yesterday he weighed in on trump's bans and said if donald trump becomes the president i will be stopped from engaing there and is planning a trip before january just in case donald trump gets elected. turns out he may not need to cross the atlantic so soon, trump indicaing the newly elected mayor could be the exception to the muslim mayor saying there will always be exceptions and he's happy about his election and said i think it's a very good thing and i hope the does a very good job and that will be very good. an indication of no policy is
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set in stone. and michael moore will join me in the studio after the break.
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plenty of pundits who say donald trump doesn't stand a chance against hillary clinton, but there are those who are the opposite --
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>> that from bernie sanders supporter michael moore. he joins me now. good to see you again. >> am i now a pundit? i made a prediction. >> you're a filmmaker, writer, social activist, visionary. >> we can stop there. thank you. >> i guess let's start with this. i remember down size this was the book, i remember reading that book. the last chapter, if i'm not mistaken, is an interview, and in it it says look, these should be our people. we should find a way, those of us on the left, to talk to the fears and hopes of these folks about getting left behind, and it occurs there's something a little bit like that happening in this political moment, as well. >> yeah. i think that trump is -- look, i said publicly last august that i thought he would be the republican nominee, and that was laughed at. i think people are no longer laughing. >> no, no. >> at the possibility of what
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could happen. people say to me all the time, how bad could it be, really? if trump gets in? i'm like, well, what do you mean? what's the scale of how bad? like, like, like, how bad, like, frank underwood pushing zoe under the metro train bad or baxter putting the bar of soap by the tub? i would say pretty bad. but if people -- i think -- and i was listening to bill maher say this and this is important and we take this seriously, that our side of the political fence often times does not come out to vote. therefore, the other side, they're very good at getting up in the morning and going to vote. that should be a real concern. and i said this on your show before, and the polls have proven this to be true, if bernie sanders was the candidate, he's a safer choice to beat trump than hillary.
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they both can beat him. but i think his strategy will be to focus on the part of the country i'm from, because he says things like if ford takes that factory out of detroit and takes it to mexico -- >> i will just tell them no, you cannot leave. i've seen this argument from sanders folks and in aggregate polling, it is based on data that show the margins of bernie sanders and hillary clinton. but it's based on a fiction aleck shun that hasn't happened. >> it's six months away. >> i don't think most people support bernie sanders because he's the most likely to beat trump. >> they are voting from their conscience. >> exactly. but they have made the argument about this, and that seems to me to underestimate the impact of
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what it would be for bernie sanders to be in the cross hairs -- >> what bernie said the other night was true when he said that -- bernie isn't going to deliver these votes for hillary. hillary is going to have to reach out and convince sanders' voters why they should be for -- and not just as an anti-trump vote. >> what do you make of at this moment, which i think is interesting, this election is fascinating. you have a situation where the math gets harder and harder for sanders and it remains the case that people are coming out to vote for bernie sanders, late and late into the primary. there has been no one saying let's get on with this, let's do it. he's probably going to win west virginia tomorrow. >> what does that mean about this moment to you? >> first of all, i feel really good about the fact that there's nine primaries left. he's ahead in the polls in six of those nine.
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that's pretty damn good. he's won 18, that's 25 primaries for a guy that's a democratic socialist. >> but ultimately where things are right now and where they will end up, he's the choice of about 45%. >> which is great. that's huge. >> it's not the majority. >> but this is such a crazy election year. the election is six months from yesterday, right? so we've got six more months of this craziness. we can't even -- as we sit here tonight, we can't imagine the craziness that's going to take place between now and then. and anything can happen between now and the convention, with trump, with hillary, with bernie, with whatever. i wouldn't sit here and presume anything right now, other than i'm the presumptive guest on your show right now, other than that. >> what i'm asking you to say is, sometimes -- let me tell you where i am.
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i have two minds. one i feel see this frustration in america that is born of the fact that most workers have not seen the gains of this economy in a long time, particularly true of this recovery, which in certain ways has been miraculous, but in other ways a big disappointment. that is the weird paradox of this recovery. at the same time, i wonder if we get suckered into paying the most attention, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, 55% voted for hillary clinton embrace president obama's legacy, that the press is missing the folks who feel like things are going in a good direction. >> i don't think that's true. in fact, i think -- you see, here's the problem. the depression that takes place from people who have suffered through this time, through the last couple of decades, it's
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harder and harder for them to say why bother? why get up and go and vote? because these are just politicians. young people don't like phony. they don't like fake. and they have a good sniffer for b.s. this is going to be hillary's problem to get young people out to vote, because they sense something is not real here. and for people of my generation -- >> i think that's overdetermined. >> what does that mean? >> i think people's sense of her authenticity cannot be divorced for the way which he's been portrayed for decades. >> well, she's been abused for decades, but i think there's a real problem here that shouldn't be ignored, and i think -- well, let's see what rachel has to say about this. rachel, are you here? >> michael moore, whose latest film "where to invade next" is available on blu-ray tomorrow. >> and dvd. >> thanks for your time. >> that is "all in" for this evening. good evening, rachel.
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>> i'm right here, i can hear you. hi. thanks, guys. happy monday. we've got some breaking political news tonight. you have not heard this anywhere else. this is exclusive to us. but we have just got our hands on some brand new national polling from public policy polling. this is just being released for the first time right this second. and i have to assure you not only is this national polling new, i have to also assure you, you'll understand why in just a second, but i have to assure you that it's real. this is not an elaborate joke, like a big misdirection story i'm telling and it turns out to be an april fool's or whatever. this is real. i'm not making this up to entertain you, even though i'm sometis tempted to do that. donald trump is less popular thanic

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