tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC May 10, 2016 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
welcome back. polls in west virginia will be closing in 30 minutes now. it was a busy day in republican politics. marco rubio and ted cruz declined to throw their full support behind donald trump. here they are. >> he's the nominee of the republican party or the presumptive nominee. i respect that and accept it.
that's not going to change the reservations i have about his campaign or the policies. >> it's six months until the general election. there will be plenty of time for voters to make the determination who they will support. voters will be listening to the candidates, listening to what they support and assessing them on their merit. >> it's amazing. you get a flash look and remind you of their entire persona. i'm not saying that positively. rubio said he plans to live up to the pledge to support the nominee, but he has serious concerns about trump. i don't know what they mean anymore. trump said he doesn't think the party needs to be unified. >> basically, we need to talk a
about how do we unify the republican party. we shouldn't just pretend our party is unified when we know it's not. it's been one week since the primary ended. it's going to take more than a week just to repair and unify this party. >> is he coming in as the boss or a job applicant? >> the party sees him as shall be coming in as a job applicant. >> he won. >> they're going to read him the riot act.
>> donald trump has the abilities to go in there and the voters to say no. they don't want your way of doing things. they don't want your republican party. >> who speaks for the republican voter today better, trump or ryan? who is speaking for the voter out there? not a 1 percenter. a regular republican. who speaks for that male or female? >> i don't think the entire republican party is completely behind donald trump. >> are they behind ryan in. >> i don't think so either. i think they want a change. i think a good majority of them saw that donald trump was the one that would probably best be able to do that in their minds. i think donald trump is closer to the republican voter. >> you should write a book about the trump you've covered. what an assignment and what a
job you've done. we go to steve. >> we're taking a look here at west virginia and nebraska republicans. how do they feel about their party now and winning in november? we asked republicans united now. 10% say this is a united republican party. most of those are saying it's divided. they will come together. a quarter is saying this is party that will remain divided through the general election. quarter of republicans in west virginia saying that. in nebraska, look at this. it's nearly half. nearly half the republicans say this is a party that's going to stay divided between now and november. why this is so interesting is because donald trump was asked about this the other day? do you need the republican party to be united to win in november? he said i don't think i need to.
i think i'm a different kind of candidate than you've seen and i can win with a divided party. republicans are saying they largely agree with that. look at this, 90% of the west virginia republicans say trump will probably win in the fall and in nebraska very high number as well. over 80%. 75%. three quarters of the republicans who say this party will stay divided, they still think trump will win in the fall. >> well said. >> paul, thank you for coming on. you're the man. i want to you about trump. how you getting along with him? >> great. >> good relationship? >> yes. >> what's he like compared to what he see on the stage? >> same guy. >> i find him a bit subdued. >> depends on the day. >> you're been watching and you're a big part of it, explain it to the young person reading the history book. what happened in 2016 that had the republican party regular, scott walker, perry, every one
of them, rubio, cruz, they all went down in a ravine. they are ditched by this one guy, beats all of them and wins the republican nomination. what is it in the times that allowed that to happen? >> donald trump figured out the campaign for a moderate presidency is different than in the past. he didn't put together a traditional campaign. it's the first modern campaign in the social media era. he understood how to use earned media instead of paid media. he also had a vision. he came in with plan to change everything as a true outsider. he was not involved in politics until ten months ago. he combined a modern campaign with a vision that not
restricted by the conventional wisdom of politics in washington. those two things made a different where he will be now. >> how does he fit the republican party? he went throughout and was the largest vote getter in the history of primaries. he beat the record by may 3rd. he is now the head of the republican party as far as voters in country are concerned. he ran everywhere. he won everywhere. i think tonight's numbers show the republicans are happy with their nominee. they turned out in two states. they didn't have to turn out. they wanted to support his vision and his plan for america. >> how much power that shows him within a point or two in states like pennsylvania where he can win the whole thing.
what's that say to paul ryan when he greets him? he can't greet him as a contender. >> donald trump's candidacy has been filled with myths he was not a serious candidate. he never could break -- >> did i ever say that? go back and look. >> they also said he couldn't break 30%, he couldn't break 40. he would never win a one-on-one race. they were right. the point is they've been wrong all along. >> let's talk strategy. let's head to the convention because it's more fun. we've had exciting conventions.
'68 was a hell of a democratic convention. it didn't help the party that lost. are boring conventions better? can you have a positive, exciting election? >> you can. >> how do you do that? >> donald trump understands media. he's a television star. >> are you going to have features on monday and tuesday night? how are you going to use television when a lot of people like us use the convention. we cover it and talk amongst ourselves. how do you come up with comp compelling television? >> we're sitting down with the rnc and talk about it. we have ideas. >> you'll have to break some eggs. >> i don't think so. >> reince priebus will give us an exciting convention? >> donald trump will.
>> will you have a reality show? >> this is the ultimate reality show. it's the presidency of the united states. we'll be talking to america, not just donald trump but the republican party. >> let's take a look at your candidate here. he spent the weekend attacking both clintons. here is how he's going out. >> i'm saying to myself, but nobody in this country, and maybe in the history of the country, politically, was worse than bill clinton with women. she's married to a man who was the worst abuser of women in the history of politics. she's married to a man who hurt many women and hillary, if you look and see study, hillary hurt many women. the women that he abused.
she was an unbelievably nasty, mean enabler. what she did to a lot of those women is disgraceful. put that in her bonnet and let's see what happens. >> is he on solid ground there? i don't know this story. he talks about how hillary clinton was not just an enabler but humiliated woman involved with her husband. do you have any facts to back that up? does the candidate? >> the point he's -- >> he said hillary clinton did nasty, terrible things to these women who alleged have a relationship with her husband. did she do that? >> he'll be talk about that on the campaign. >> shehe's told you stuff that will now bring out? >> we have talked about hillary clinton playing the female card and his willingness to expose that card for what it is. >> why is it hypocrite cal for her to be hitting the female
card, as you put it? >> his point is if she were not a women, people -- >> it's not just rhetoric. >> how do you make that case? >> stay tuned. >> you got a case? >> stay tuned. >> have you heard his case? >> we'll not be letting her get away playing the female card. >> does it scare you that 1998, bill clinton not only defeated the attempt to remove her from office. it never works against the clintons. they seem to be coming back at their attackers. >> the clintons have never run against donald trump. >> you smile. >> it's going to be a good campaign. >> you're going to have a christian conservative running mate. you must name an evangelical.
>> everybody's got a opinion. there's only one that counts. >> very confident fellow. coming up, much more on trump's battle with the republican insiders. we have robert costa with new reporting on that and steve schimdt coming here. at the bottom of the hour, clpos will be closed. this is hardball, the place for politics.
with speaker of the house paul manafort -- paul ryan this thursday. a week after ryan said he wasn't ready the endorse the republican nominee for president. the washington post reported that trump allied ben carson is playing a key role in mending fences with ryan and carson requested his own meeting with the speaker in advance. an advancement on this meeting. it will come after a spokesperson for the trump campaign said ryan was unfit to be speaker and after sarah palin called for ryan's defeat in the wisconsin primary this summer. i'm joined by robert costa, steve schmidt and ann coulter, she has a new book out "in trump we trust." what's the nature of the meeting. i don't like meetings. i don't know what they accomplish.
this doesn't excite me or threaten me. is trump coming in as the job applicant or as the boss, which is it? >> based on my reporting and i've spoken to people close to ryan and close to trump, they hope to come to some kind of consensus on what the party's principles are and whether there can be agreement. there's not going to be a heavy discussion on policy. this isn't about a litmus test or whether they can agree on immigration and trade. it's whether they can have unity. >> trump has been speaking for a year on what he thinks of policy. don't they pay attention. don't they have transcripts. why do they have to ask -- they didn't like what they heard and whey want to hear something else, ann. >> i think you're right. i think it shows that trump is being unbelievably gracious. he doesn't need to have this meeting. he's the heart and soul of the party.
i think he could have said, i hope he comes aboard. we're going to have a lot of fun. i don't think he would waste a lot of time on these meetings. the people are with him and there's no point in meeting with these generals without armies. >> what's the best line in your book? i know you remember it. >> i'm writing it now. >> you don't have the best line. >> i might quote you. you were right about manafort, who you were the only one not dismissive of trump. >> let's go back to steve. i think he's a mixed bag. this meeting, what do you make of this meeting. washington loves this stuff. they go behind closed doors. they come out holding hands. they go in angry and come out happy.
that's my thinking. >> the republican voters spoke. they let it be known they're contempt for the republican establishment. donald trump arrives at this meeting as a conquerer of the political order over the last generation. this meeting is important because i think there's an open question. can a party led by donald trump, can it survive? it's the majority party. he tries to come out with yunit with the speaker and others. he's got to have a unified republican party. he's got to do well with independents and pick up his
fair share of con sempb tifr worki -- conservative democrats. >> the trump campaign confirmed, well, i do rely on the prompter. a video attacking clinton. the video uses interviews with the families of the victims. it looks like swift voting. it contains elements that may be offensive to some viewers. i have to say that. here it is. >> we've seen rage and violence directed at american embassies. >> she lied to me. she told me it was fault of the video. >> she said we are going to have the film maker arrested who is responsible for the death of your son. >> she did say to you that benghazi attack was caused by protests? >> absolutely. >> i don't know why that's funny. >> well, we all know how editing
works. whatever you say about any of this, i think it's problematic, having her laughing like mad, tragedy that cost the life of an actual friend of hers, chris stephens the ambassador. it's editing and malicious. is this thing going to work? >> my sources close to trump says he has dozens of these videos ready to go on different fronts. they are often hard hitting of audio blended together. this is the trump campaign style. they are trying to reach out to movement conservatives to paul ryan. when it comes to social media, instagram, they're playing at a lower level and trying to incite voters and get conservatives excited. >> i don't buy the idea that tend justifies the means. i've seen this with dukakis in '88. you can destroy an opponent with a good ad campaign. come back with your book.
just moments away from the polls closing in west virginia. we'll have our first projections. seems like she has to play this rear guard against bernie sanders. >> she has. she thought it would be over now. she clearly can't give her attention to the campaign. even though she's overwhelmingly likely to win the nomination. the fact he's kept winning
primaries. he was favored going in. the fact he keeps doing well, the fact he keeps drawing thousands and thousands of people to rallies. >> there's nothing like it. have you ever seen a loser do so well? a guy who will probably not win has tremendous crowds formed. >> exactly. a lot of passion. those people will still there be there after the convention. she needs to win their support. the democratic coalition has to turn out. that's the way the math works. >> they also want to keep the people mad for bernie sanders in the party. they're not necessarily in the party. >> they're not in the party.
he's activated a lot of political enthusiasm among vofos who wouldn't necessarily be participating at all. you want to keep them involved. you want to get them out to vote. as you know, it's difficult to get young voters out to vote. >> i see tradition about to play the role. the guy who gives the best speech is never the nominee. it's so democratic. bernie will get his hour on stage. >> he'll get his hour and influence of the platform too. >> the speech he gets to give is his speech.
he can say anything he wants. >> he's really created a movement. he's appealed to people in a way, no one would have said that bernie sanders would be a political rock star. >> you know what sanders said to me, a year ago you would have treated me as a fringe candidate. i meaning fringe is about right. there's a near and present reality to young families. you're 22 years old. you get out of school. you're paying 8% on it. bernie says i can help you with it. hillary says what. it's going to be a challenge to keep them upbeat. >> the question of how do young
people get a start in life these days. >> hard to launch when you have that pack on your back. you go to med school or law school. there it is. it's now 7:30. the polls are closed in west virginia now. msnbc news can project when all votes are counted in west virginia, bernie sanders will be the winner of the west virginia primary. on the republican side, no surprise here, donald trump's the projected winner. adding to his delegate totals and getting closer to that magic number of 1237, the majority. let's talk about the democrats. we were just talking about bernie sanders. he could win four this month. >> he could sweep may essentially. this could be a very good month for him. >> oregon, kentucky. he could do well.
they're just bad for clinton. she will win california. to have a whole month of potential losses for somebody who is supposed to be -- >> you're an editor. the post has to put a headline in. they say made a mistake. saying in ohio the coal line will be closed. how dig is that? that's when she stepped in it. >> i think that will be mentioned but maybe in a allolo graph. if i were editing the story, would lead with bernie sanders victory and try to take a big picture of the sanders campaign and look ahead toward the rest of the race and the fact he's
consolidated this sort of movement support throughout the primary season. it's not going to go away. what just happened? >> the how in terms of how bernie sanders wins in west virginia tonight, a big factor here. >> independents who want to vote for the republicans in the fall, want to vote for trump in the fall but want to have something to do with this race for governor. they come into the democratic primary, vote in the race for governor and they vote against hillary clinton and vote for bernie sanders. we're finding that 40% of sanders voters tonight in west virginia say that if it's a choice many fall between sanders and donald trump, they're voting
for donald trump. they are not voting for bernie sanders. the other thing in terms of what this means to the national race, bernie sanders is saying if i run the table here, i can still catch hillary clinton in the pledge delegates. he's down 295 pledge delegates coming into tonight. we know he's won west virginia. we know hillary clinton will still get delegates. he probably takes 19 of those 29. we don't know for sure yet. say it's about 19-10 split. means he gains nine. means he come into the night down 295. he would come out down 286. this is a proportional system. this is the biggest problem you have in you're bernie sanders to make up that kind of gap. >> how much of this is the pattern that we have seen in previous elections. it's not buyer's remorse but
they like to show their attitude, their point of view. are you voting for somebody. we saw this with kennedy versus nixon. it seems to be a pattern. >> eight years ago on the democratic side, four of the final six contests clinton versus obama. they were won by hillary clinton. they're doesn't seem to be an indication that voters in the states are saying time to get in line. let's get behind hillary. let's show unity here. sa sanders could put up six, seven wins down the stretch. >> let's bring in chuck todd. this thing we keep talking about it, i hate talking like we're south african or something, we talk about ethnicity and race
all the time. the african-american vote has been so strong for hillary clinton and when it's not there, she doesn't do well. >> you can't help go back eight years ago. when the african-american vote wasn't there, who did well? hillary clinton. we have proof of these states. does gender and racial identity matter a bit here. hillary clinton did better in states without a large african-american vote. she's getting all the african-american votes now. none of that -- i think it's proof that none of that vote for her eight years ago was for her. it was anti-obama. i think what we can safely say it's probably just as likely that a lot of the sanders vote tonight, a majority of it is pro-sanders. there's probably a good chunk that's anti-hillary. >> what is that?
is that a nasty, what? i'm trying to figure out what that is on us. >> a lot of people will say it's race and gender based. i think some of the more -- you can't ignore that aspect of it. >> is it white people not voting for hillary clinton because what? she identified with obama. >> she's identified with obama or it could be on gender lines. let's not ignore that aspect here. we saw what happened in the same states eight years ago. you can't ignore a factor. is it t factor? no. i don't think it's the factor. you can't ignore the fact that barack obama only get less than 60% of the vote against a convicted felon four years ago. there's a significant portion
that's anti-obama, anti-democratic party now. there's a will the of things going on here. let's not pretend that race and gender aren't playing a role too. >> i have to tell you, i looked at where the kennedy-nixon race began to change west of philly. i saw joe leiberman's change. this country gets very culturely and conservative once you move west of place like philadelphia. >> my concern, this cycle is that i think it's worse now in both ends of the spectrum. i think there are fewer and fewer people that live in neighborhoods that are mixed politically. that's -- you're right in what you're saying in history but there are fewer swing congressional districts than ever before. there's fewer swing counties than we have seen before.
this self-sorting that's taking place. the idea that political party is a culture identifier as well. when political party became a culture identifier. that didn't always use to be. i think it's becoming a little more of a culture identifier and that has ramifications going forward. that's why governing is so hard. that's why it's hard for an elected official to compromise because they get punished for doing it because they're breaking their cultural norm. this is a larger party that both political parties have to deal with. i got to leon panetta institute
and that place is all nervous about trump. they're very nervous about him. >> i don't think we're switzerland. >> seems like that. >> bernie sanders is the projected winner of west virginia. just happened now. let's bring in kacie hunt in washington. i love your focus group. i thought it was very interesting among republican women. actual voters who are not part of the power structure. it was great. >> thank you. it was a really interesting hour that i spent. thanks to the participants that spent this time talking with us. i think tfrs very illuminating in so much this is a group of people that donald trump or rather the republican nominee should be able to count on. the people that we talk to have been members of the republican party.
@a same time, i thought it was really interesting that they essentially debated among themselves and i hardly had to moderate the discussion at all from that perspective. you had two people who were older women, who were very, very much supportive of donald trump and very much bought into the policies he's been selling in this primary. then you had three younger women who didn't. one member was undecided. i asked her, what would it take for donald trump to convince you to vote for him. she said he has to change his border wall policy and he has to change the policies on the muslim ban. she said that was unconstitutional. the other two jumped in and defended her. >> sounds like why the clinton campaign will be running very
tough ads against trump and what he's said about the wall along the rio grand and hoping to get younger republican women to come over. let's bring in kristen welker. they're not going to take another loss. >> that's right. i spoke with a clinton campaign official moments ago who said that. secretary clinton has in the month of may and they're up with ads here. that's a real shift in her strategy. she didn't put campaign ads up in west virginia or indiana, a state she also lost. i asked are they going to put ads up in california and new jersey. they say they are thinking about
it. they are more powe kused on this primary. secretary clinton just left here this venue in louisville a short while ago where she was rallying voters. as you were just discussing, she's very focused on the general election. she released an ad that could be used in the primary or the general arguing she's the toughest candidate and has the most experience to head to the white house. key to her strategy is rallying and reaching out to those women voters that kacie interviewed. this is another key part of her strategy we haven't talked about. drawing sharp distinctions with donald trump over the chaos in the gop, trying to capitalize on the fact it's faktured party. today she put out yet another list of conservatives who have broken with donald trump. i think that's a preview of what we can expect to see. >> thanks to much.
>> let's go to gene. looks like trump is working that vain. >> absolutely. that's his only path to victory. you have not just the cultural issues but also the economic issues. that's where a lot of those people are, whose prospects have dimmed so much and look toward the future. they're angry that the politicians have been selling them a bill of goods. that's been the way they feel. trump's got to get those people. he's got to get them this
massive numbers to win. you see this interesting, urban rural in cities like charlotte and birmingham are liberal places. >> let me go to chuck on this. that is that question about trump and how he runs the general election. you look at numbers and call them outliers. they show a contested competition for pennsylvania. let me ask a relative question. are there signs it's getting closer than we thought or signs it may blow out in. >> i think right now it's signs it's getting more normalized and more competitive.
republican voters have come home to trump faster than republican leaders. we saw that in polling three weeks ago. the republican voters are ahead of where the leadership in washington is. that's number one. i really think the ultimate test is going to be after the convention. that's where we're going to see what kind of convention. craig was on my show earlier today. he just noted a very simple fact. we have talked about how divided parties lose, divided conventions are a sign of losing a convention. he went through them. '68, '80. republicans, '64, '76, '92 where the conventions were divisive moments. you saw the party was not united. that sends a message to the general lektsorate. one party doesn't know what it is.
one party does know. what does donald trump -- what kind of unified republican message can he present at his convention in cleveland? where does that stand? on paper, generic d, generic r, i thought this election was going to be the 2004 election all over. that close, the map reverting back to pre-obama norms, all of those things. obviously, trump creates a new situation. we'll see. >> sanders owns west virginia. >> the bigger thing is donald trump maybe owns west virginia. not only a big win and uncontested, but check this out. digging deeper into the numbers on the democratic side, we asked
them regardless of who you're voting for today, who are you going to be with in november. one third of democrats today in west virginia say no matter what, i'm with a democratic candidate. look at that. 27% say i'm with donald trump. a little more than a third, 36% are saying it depends. a couple of different factors. it's trump country in west virginia. i think that's what we're seeing. >> do you put this on hillary's map when she tours the country or do you skip west virginia? >> talking about this with chuck. in '08 she has the winning streak in west virginia. at the very beginning of this campaign, there was talk coming from some people around clinton that maybe these are states she could put in play. they're not saying that anymore. i think this says she's not going to be campaigning. >> thank you. bernie sanders the projected winner in west virginia. he beat hillary clinton. much more ahead.
bernie sanders is now the projected winner of the west virginia democratic primary. let's bring in republican strategist steve schmidt. we're getting interpretation thanks to steve kornacki saying west virginia, although it is ton and it 92 will be in the headlines tomorrow, bernie sanders countries. if you go into the internals it's going to be trump country. he's going to get a lot of democratic votes, maybe a quarter, maybe a third. >> west virginia used to be a reliable democratic state. it's transitioned to become a monolithic republican state. in terms of the outcome of a presidential race over the last decade or so. it really represents the change of the dna, really, of the democratic coalition away from the working class, blue-collar
democrats of yesteryear, towards the obama coalition, which is much more left, much more urban, much more liberal. and so republicans have a chance in some of these states -- ohio, pennsylvania, west virginia -- where you have a lot of scot-irish descendents, working-class white democrats running through the appalachian mountains in this country. >> let's bring in msnbc political commentator eugene robinson and lucian that lopez. i've been working on this project about the early elections in the '50s and '60s, kennedy races. back then, being a democrat was great. you talked about unemployment, jobs, putting people to work, minimum wage, you talked about medicare. now you've got to talk about guns, which people don't want to hear. you talk about how coal is bad for the country and the world. you talk about same-sex in a part of the country that isn't keen on that cultural stuff. >> abortion, religion. >> all of a sudden you're talking about things that aren't
really well received. in the old days a democrat could just say, poverty here, let's do something about it. the democratic party moved to the left. i think it never really had a conversation about where the party was going to go. this is not bill clinton's democratic party. that's obvious. the centrist, moderate, southern governor, democratic governor, who are those? where are the blue dog democrats? >> have you happy about this? >> i'm thrilled because hillary clinton is trying to wage right now, quite unsuccessfully, a two-front war. bernie's to her left so she's moving over there when she can. donald trump has vanquished 16 opponents, she can't vanquish one. i think he could pivot to a general election and take her on the next 90 days. >> you're looking quizcally. you've seen her and she has spoken well what do you make of that argument? >> i think a lot of this isn't necessarily about left versus right so much as insider versus outsider. so much of trump's success is from people who look at politicians, republican or democratic party, and say, what have you done for me lately? by lately i mean 20 or 30 years.
that's why they're going to trump. i don't think it's necessarily left versus right in this election, i think there are more ways to look at things. >> who do you think the next democratic senator from west virginia is going to be? >> that person's not born yet. it will be a long time. >> i want to talk about the culture of west virginia, talking about it tonight, results are in, trump looks good, bernie looks good, hillary doesn't. >> a candidate like joe manson can win in west virginia. that's the sort of prototypical west virginian democrat. have to be centrist. >> likes coal miners you can't say such nasty things about coal. you know, as i said earlier, it's not the democratic party putting coal out of business, it's not hillary clinton, it's natural gas and fracking and large economic trends. but it's the democrats were in part paying the price. >> the same with trade and everything, it always is the party that has these positions.
thank you, steve schmidt, kelly ann conway, eugene robinson, luciana lopez. the news is that bernie sanders is the projected winner of west virginia. he's going to get the headlines tomorrow. more wins for him, more crowds, more money, $27 a person, he's doing it, he's still in this thing. you're watching a special edition of "hardball."
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donald trump, a loss for hillary clinton. that does foyt are me and "hardball." msnbc will bring you complete election coverage throughout the night tonight. "all in with chris hayes" as always starts right now. good evening from new york, i'm chris hasyes. just a half hour since polls closed in west virginia. on the republican side, no surprise, donald trump is the big winner, not that it was much of a race after his remaining competition dropped out last week. though trump did campaign in the state. on the democratic side, bernie sanders won the day in west virginia. his second victory in as many weeks with a total of just 37 delegates on the democratic side up for grabs in the state, awarded on a promotional basis, it is unlikely to close his wide gap he currently has behind hillary clinton. despite clinton's loss, one high-ranking democrat said he fully expects clinton to win the nomination.