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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  May 10, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PDT

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from tacking toward the center and might be part of it and not just hillary clinton but the democratic party and explicitly said at the doesn't have the delegates going doesn't have the delegates going into the convention, one thing he will be pushing for is to shape the party platform more in his image, in his more progressive mold, fighting for universal health care, for child care, $15 an hour minimum wage, things like that. so even if he's not ultimately victorious on that level, perhaps he'll have some influence on the other matters. >> that will have to be the last word tonight. thank you both for joining us. msnbc's live primary coverage continues now with chris hayes. ♪ good evening. from new york, i'm chris hayes. bernie sanders tonight winning another primary over hillary clinton, this time in west
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virginia, his second victory in just over a week. sanders leading clinton with over 70% of the vote reporting, speaking to a crowd of supporters in oregon, the senator from vermont thanked voters and promised to continue fighting. >> tonight, it appears that we won a big, big victory in west virginia! [ applause ] and with your help, we're going to win in oregon next week. [ applause ] >> on the republican side, donald trump continued his march towards the republican nomination, winning easily in west virginia. of course, everyone else has dropped out, which that probably helped. in nebraska, he won all 36 delegates in that state. while voters are going to the polls, trump now the republican party's presumptive nominee, appeared on fox news where he was asked to name one specific
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thing you to do protect the "sanctity of human life." >> i think that what we're doing, and i think it's a very important element in what i've done, i've become pro life. i was in a meek fashion pro choice, but i've become pro life, and the reason is, i've seen in my case one specific situation but numerous situations that have made me go that way. i will protect it and the biggest way you can protect it is through the supreme court and putting people on the court -- >> so diane's question is answered. your specific thing to protect the sanctity of life would be appointing a supreme court justice that would overturn roe v. wade? do i have it? >> well, they'll be pro life, and we'll see about overturning. but they will be -- i will appoint pro life judges. >> joining me now, katie tur, correspondent who has been
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covering the trump campaign. ben ginsburg, dorian warren, and robert george. i thought that was news making, that interview with bill o'reilly, for this reason. it is hard to nail down trump on policy. if you were to say to me what is the policy about donald trump. i would say build a wall, make mexico pay for it and stop muslims from coming to the u.s. after that, it gets a little murkier. here is my big question for you. do you anticipate increasing republican orthodoxy from the man who is now the leader of the republican party as we head towards the general? >> i think donald trump is going to be donald trump. and i think his meeting with paul ryan will give you particular clues about how far he's willing to go on republican orthodoxy, as well as the way the platform plays out at the
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convention. i believe his beliefs, what he says about policy, he will have to flesh out more as the campaign goes along and i think he wants to do that. >> there's a whole bunch of things part of the republican catechism and official policy. those things are repealing obamacare, which he says he's for, but presumably there will have to be more fleshed out health care, the top marginal tax rates, trade deals, tpp. at some point in six months, the guy's got to say yes or no on a bunch of stuff. my question, will that fall in line with what the republican party as a whole believes? >> donald trump has won a lot of votes taking positions that are not part of republican orthodoxy. i don't know why you think that would change. but i would say that his main claim in all of this is he can get stuff done. and that has not been a product of administrations, both republican and democrat, for the
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past decade. >> i would actually say there are certain other areas in policy that we are getting a sense of where he's from. i think it's very, very clear that he is going in a very different direction on trade, for example. he's carved a line in the sand saying he's going after -- he's going to hillary clinton's left on wanting to repeal nafta, and going after the chinese on trade, as well. >> not just repeal nafta, order by an executive power as yet unnamed the private company and carrier not to leave the united states. order the company carrier not to leave that. is the current policy. >> donald trump -- >> i don't think you can take any of donald trump's statements so far in this campaign as orthodoxy, and i do think that even includes, from private conversations i've been having with his aids and with those close to him, i do think that
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does even include building a wall. >> how about abortion? maybe he will be pro choice by september. [ overlapping speakers ] >> the very important thing you have to remember about donald trump, he likes to describe himself as the best negotiator there is out there. he ascribes to that version of himself. "the art of the deal" isn't just a book he wrote a few decades ago, it is the way he lives his life and how he goes about everything and it is the way he's going about his campaign, from what i've been told from private conversations. >> let me be clear, he's been negotiating with himself about taxes for the last 72 hours, which he's taken my last count four possible positions, if i'm counting this correctly on the top marginal rate. >> i'm not going to argue that what donald trump says makes sense. >> it doesn't matter. >> i don't think it matters. i think he is trying to
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captivate an audience, feed you have of their anger and frustration, feed off of their dislike of washington, and right now all of his policies are fungible because i don't think he has a lot of advisers that are telling him maybe what direction to go in. >> this gets to my point. what do you mean it doesn't matter? >> because we can have this sort of from beltway to boston conversation about policy specifics. >> i disagree. [ overlapping speakers ] >> can i just say something? voters care about abortion, okay? abortion is a thing that people vote on. they vote on it because they hate abortion -- >> he's won the primaries. it is against republican orthodoxy on abortion what he said. he came back a little bit -- >> he will be more flexible going into the general election. >> let me tell you this, he's won about 10 million votes. there are 100 million people that will vote in the general.
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>> 130 million people if it follows the past. >> 130 million people. my point being, yes, he is one among those 10 million people who are not broadly representative of 130 million people that are going to vote in the general election. if it were, mitt romney would have won the general. >> but you just proved your own point. mitt romney, in the primaries in 2012, won less republican votes than donald trump did. mitt romney was a strongly pro life nominee. >> sort of. he came around to it. >> but in the context of running in the general election, donald trump has shown more flexibility on the issue of abortion, even talking about tinkering with the platform. that kind of orthodoxy on the issue of abortion, republican voters, even evangelicals are willing to give him a pass on that. >> is there any issue where
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orthodoxy does matter? >> this is an example of the collapse of the republican party as an institution, because there's a difference between a coherent idealology that the conservative elites hold. and they're having problems -- that's no way to bind him to what the republican party -- >> i will give you one way to bind him. he's going to have to raise $500 million. donald trump's theory, his own theory of the influence of money in politics is that politicians recite what their donors want them to recite. he's now in the position that other people were in. so the question becomes, is that some way that the gravitational pull of orthodoxy -- >> i don't think any of this stuff applies to donald trump. i don't think his policies matter. i don't think that what he says on a day-to-day basis matters. i think the reality is -- i don't. from talking to his voters, the reality is, they want somebody
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completely different, and they like him as a person. they like his personality. they like his attitude. >> exactly right. also, i don't think that's just republican voters. it's a mistake to say oh, it's just the republican primary. is there independent voters that like him, as well? i wouldn't put it past him to appeal to soft democrats that don't like hillary clinton. and that is -- >> that is totally true. and who are generally disaffected and alienated from the way the government has comported itself for a couple of decades. >> what does that mean? including bush and obama? >> yes. >> what is the continuity there? >> my wages haven't increased. my jobs is not as good. the values that i hold in society are crumbling. and by the way, because we need a leader like donald trump is i believe the attitude of the voters. that's actually a threat to the
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elites of the republican and democratic parties. and if you play past what bernie sanders has meant to the democratic primary -- >> we're going to get to that. >> donald trump is sort of the mirror image of that in the republican primary and what you've got is a statement about the country that has been overlooked -- >> donald trump is green lantern. he's what people have been talking about, why hasn't obama done such and such. he need to show more will. donald trump is the guy, he's basically using his own personality to say he will bring real change and get actual stuff done in washington, d.c. mainly because of his own force of will. >> we'll talk about my favorite topic, white nationalism, when we come back.
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up next, why the phrase
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"white nationalist" is once again appearing in stories about donald trump today. here on the show, hear how the trump campaign plans to execute its war on one woman. >> what is this thing about hillary clinton being married to somebody that is an abuser of women, how do you make that case? >> stay tuned. >> have you heard his case? >> we have things we'll be talking about in this campaign where we will not be letting her get away with playing the female card.
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donald trump's campaign has submitted its list of california delegates ahead of the state's june primary and the republican
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party's national convention in july. the list reads like a who's who of gop politics. there's kevin mccarthy, duncan hunter, darrell issa, even billionaire and one of the biggest backers of ron paul's super pac in 2012, peter teal. also a man named william johnson, the leader of the american freedom party, a white nationalist organization which is a politically correct way of saying a racist organization. he's been a big trump booster in the past. you may recall his work in which he voiced robocalls saying don't vote for a cuban, vote for donald trump. now the trump campaign says a glitch was responsible for his admittance on the list. >> but the campaign corresponded with johnson.
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>> johnson told msnbc news he wrote to the trump campaign to withdraw his delegate bid. the trump campaign said his name was not on the final list. but the plot thickens. tonight a spokesperson says johnson will remain a trump delegate because the trump campaign did not reach out to our office about removing william johnson's name until tuesday, may 10, past the statutory deadline to submit delegate lists to the secretary of state's office. >> 99 problems but a glitch ain't one apparently. >> very good, very good. [ laughter ] >> just to give you a flavor of what's going on, johnson is advocating all non-white immigrants and anyone with ascertainable trace of negro blood. this man is a delegate in the republican -- >> i know you're loving this. but the reality is, he stepped down. he won't be a delegate, an
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alternate will be in there. it was a mistake. they corrected it. >> there are lots of mistakes. >> it's pretty easy not to associate with nazis. as a general thing, it is easy to go through american public and political life and not find yourself retweeting white supremists or not find yourself failing to condemn kkk members. how many candidates -- >> it's a bad mistake. they fixed it. >> how many candidates in this election of the 17 were slating delegates that were white nationalists? >> let me just give you an inside look to donald trump's world. donald trump, in terms of not disavowing david duke, i don't think you can explain away that. when it comes to retweeting that, he just retweets. i don't think he looks at who the users are. he often does this late at night. i'm not excusing it, this is just him going through his phone, seeing a message he likes and retweets it. i think the reality is, he
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doesn't -- maybe white nationalists tweet back nice things about him. that's why he keeps doing it over and over again. i think this was to give them the benefit of a doubt a glitch. maybe not a computer glitch, but an oversight with the trump campaign. the problem is -- >> let me just say -- >> the problem is, he has a bad history of not disavowing white nationalists and a bad history of retweeting. so it's just a bad circumstance all together. i'm not condoning it at all. but i don't think he's going out there and finding the white supremists and -- >> there's much more to this. it's partly trump and partly his flirtation around -- this is not just a trump. this is what the republican party has been doing the last 40 years. >> no! >> if you look at any of the survey data, who are the most likely donald trump supporters, those that score high on racial resentment and racial anxiety of this becoming a majority non-white country.
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that is a core part of the republican base. it has won elections for the party before, so now to be shocked and appalled that donald trump would be in bed with a white nationalist as if it's new, that's just not the case. >> the republican party that you're talking about -- >> ronald reagan in philadelphia and mississippi, this has been part of the plan for 40 years. >> the republican party you're talking about has 31 of 50 governors, 66 of 99 state legislative chambers, control of the senate and the house. to get that, it has to be a or have an appeal as far broader than what you're talking about. don't play stereotypes on this, because it -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> when you're talking about that control, that has been largely born of two huge wave
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elections in 2010 and 2014. which adds an electorate, which is an empirical fact, were far whiter than the electorate in 2008 and 2012. and that dominance has been born of that. >> that's not true if you go state by state. what you're talking about is the broad -- the broad statistics. if you go state by state where the republicans have won control, they have much broader governing coalitions than you're talking about and they would have to do be able to retain the power. >> it's also a fact that those two wave elections actually made the republican party -- in terms of leadership at the federal or state level, less white. those wave elections brought us marco rubio, tim scott and so forth. [ overlapping speakers ] >> it is a core part of the republican party has been built
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on racial appeals. and when you lock at a core aspect of the voters, they score high on racial resentment and racial stereotypes. they score high on racial anxiety. >> racial resentment does not mean suddenly somebody is going to become a white supremist. >> the big thing i saw with the never trump folks was this idea of -- and you see them all the time, they're fighting with white supremists on twitter calling them nazi names. they get into these online battles. there was a feeling by the never trumpers, people who didn't like cruz but supported him, saying we want to distance ourselves from these people -- >> that is true. >> that was a huge part of it. >> absolutely. >> we want to distance ourselves from these people that are odious views that we don't want to be in the same political coalition with. the question is, is that going to be a problem for the republican party now that he's the nominee? >> yes.
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i'll say yes. that goes to in a sense to disprove -- not disprove but push back what dorian was saying. there is a strong part of the conservative movement that has actually worked to distance themself from the white nationalists. and the really concerning part of the trump rise is that suddenly these people are coming out of the woodwork. [ overlapping speakers ] >> suddenly it's okay to be a trump supporter -- hold on. i go to these rallies all over the country and met thousands, if not millions of trump supporters and voters. there is that strain that runs through it. there are folks that use some veiled language in order to express their -- >> and not veiled. >> and not veiled, discomfort
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with the president that's in charge right now. and the way this country is moving in a progressive direction. that is not all of them. >> or the majority. >> or the majority. there are all sorts of people. there are all sorts of people that go to these donald trump rallies and supporters of donald trump. there are people of all races, too. i don't think you can -- >> i don't think you can payment wit a broad brush. >> i totally agree with you. just to be clear, to your point earlier, we were talking about donald trump, there are 10 million of them. i've met orthodox jews that are trump supporters, i've met dentists from staten island and wall streeters and i've met construction workers and latinos and black people and muslims who are trump supporters. so 10 million people is a lot of different people. the problem is how is he distinguished or alienated. thank you all very much. >> thank you. >> that was very high energy.
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still to come, bernie sanders big win in west virginia, came with help from an unexpected group of people, trump supporters. i'll explain, just ahead. ♪ you're not gonna watch it! ♪
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don't fall for directv. xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. i used to like that song. we fully acknowledge we are good in arithmetic, that we have an uphill climb ahead of us. but we are used to fighting
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uphill climbs! >> so we are finally close to the end of primary season. it is not over yet. while donald trump is the presumptive nominee, hillary clinton is yet to wrap things up on the democratic side. as bernie sanders continues to win states. up next, democratic primary in kentucky where sanders is currently favored. the oregon primaries for both parties and the next big date, june 7. on that day, primaries held in california, new jersey, new mexico, montana, and south dakota, as well as north dakota. california on june 7 is the one to watch. washington, d.c. is the last democratic primary a week later on the 14th. much more on the results of tonight's contest as well as a preview of a general election matchup ahead.
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in light of our overwhelming
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victory here in west virginia, i want to send a message to everyone still making up their minds -- the white house is won in the swing states, and i am winning the swing states. [ applause ] >> very familiar argument. eight years ago in west virginia, hillary clinton death barack obama one of his worst defeats in the primary. it did not stop obama's march to the nomination. tonight, a very different night in west virginia. >> i want to take a moment to thank the people of west virginia for the tremendous victory, i think it ends up being a double digit victory tonight. [ applause ] and this is a state, west virginia, where hillary clinton won by over 40 points against barack obama in 2008! [ applause ] >> despite bernie sanders'
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decisive win over hillary clinton, in all likelihood it will not propel him to overcoming her lead in the nomination. the win was expected, but who are the supporters that helped him win? according to exit polls from voters -- 34% of sanders' supporters said they would vote for trump over sanders himself if they were the two candidates in november. so things have changed in west virginia quite a bit from last time around. here's the global question, what is going on in this democratic primary? >> well, i think one of the big changes is that whole notion of the wine track that we heard a lot about barack obama early on, the wine track is not really essential in this race. >> just to be clear, i think
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it's a ron brown coin an about wine track and beer track. wine track are college educated, beer track are more working class. sometimes you have candidates that appeal to one or the other. >> right, and there's been a lot written, thomas frank wrote something about a shift that the democrats made in the early '70s to go to professionals, to look to professionals and people moving to the suburbs for the base of the party as the country was becoming less -- de-manufacturing i guess in some ways. and in some ways now what bernie sanders is showing is that there is a coalition that is available to democrats, of people who are not necessarily professionals. he needs to build on that. he's showing it's there and accessible in a way that we haven't seen in a long time in and of itself, i think. >> alternate theories, do you have an alternate theory for west virginia? i was going to propose one and see what you thought.
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obama was on the ballot and lost. this time hillary clinton is playing the obama role, and sitting president barack obama lost i think 40 points went to a convicted felon. >> exactly. >> so it's a little like, we're not into barack obama in west virginia. >> west virginia voters, including democrats, hated president obama in 2008 and they hate president obama in 2016. because hillary clinton has come out and linked herself very closely to the president and his policies, that is affecting her and her results tonight. >> i should say, majority of approval of president among those voters. just to be clear in terms of what the exit polling says. >> we're having a republican nominating process at the same time. it's over on the republican side. if you're a trump voter, why wouldn't you vote for bernie sanders? you agree with him on trade. you don't like hillary clinton.
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you like the fact that he's an outsider in his own party. i think this is going to have some mild impact going forward, because why not? it's more fun to vote for bernie sanders than to give donald trump an extra percentage point. >> in terms of west virginia, it's an open primary and there's bunch of competitive democratic primary races tonight. so there's a reason to go out and vote tonight, even if you're not that vested in the democratic party. do you think people are voting because they think it's basically determined, but they believe in bernie sanders, and they want to continue sending a message to the democratic party about that belief? >> absolutely. we've seen people being divided, are you a republican or democrat? now we're seeing that splintering, it's are you an elitist or are you a populist? are you anti-establishment? you interviewed susan sarandon who said if it's not bernie, i would prefer trump over hillary.
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i mean -- >> she didn't quite say that. she intimated that might be a better outcome. >> it wasn't just her, that's been echoed by other bernie sanders supporters who are saying that. so that's what we're seeing, this divide that's no longer right-left. that's why you have people supporting a conservative billionaire and a socialist democrat. >> first off, i don't think that assessment of bernie or bust is accurate. i have a real problem with that whole notion. but the theory is, this is going to bring about a greater change, that you're going to heighten the distinctions by having trump in there. [ overlapping speakers ] >> when we're talking about west virginia, we see something where people say we want a -- i voted because i want somebody who is more conservative than president obama and somebody who is more liberal than president obama, bernie sanders is both of those.
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the thing we're forgetting about is guns. this is a state where the state senator -- i mean, the senator shot his way -- literally shot the legislation -- >> the other thing -- >> you have people who agree with sanders on a whole host of issue sets, but also disagree with hillary clinton and the president on guns. >> or people don't vote that much on ideology. >> peter teal, ron paul, libertarian. a trump delegate. >> we have no idea what peter teal is thinking yet, whether he's legitimately interested. he gave money to carly fiorina earlier in this cycle. i don't know if they have a personal friendship or whatever. but the big thing to realize is bernie sanders has been stomping all primary season with independent voters. he did it again tonight. around 70%. he's been getting 2/3 out there. donald trump pivoted towards bernie sanders voters a week ago. bernie sanders has a thing that
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trump wants right now. we mentioned donald trump's comments on roe v. wade earlier in this show. i want your take on it. i think this is pretty crucial. we'll be right back.
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you may have noticed over this campaign that donald trump has, on occasion, gotten himself into trouble when talking about abortion, even managing to infuriate both sides of the issue when he gave this response to chris matthews in march. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no? as a principle? >> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, there has to be some form. >> tonight, trump waded back into the abortion debate. what he said and why it matters next. show me movies with romance.
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show me more like this. show me "previously watched." what's recommended for me. x1 makes it easy to find what you love. call or go online and switch to x1. only with xfinity. as we reported earlier on fox news, donald trump was asked about what he would do to protect the sanctity of human
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life. this was his answer. >> i will protect it and the biggest way you can protect it is through the supreme court. the biggest way is by electing me president. >> your specific to protect the sangtity of life would be appointing a supreme court justice that would overturn roe v. wade. >> they will be pro life and we'll see about overturning. but i will appoint judges that will be pro life. >> trump is already going into the general election with a major deficit among women voters. now expecting to go against a candidate who could be the first woman president in history, attacking her on the basis of her gender. >> she's playing the women's card. by the way, if she didn't play the women's card, she would have no chance. i mean, zero of winning. >> he's also been tying clinton with her husband's behavior in an effort to payment her as a
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hypocrite. >> there is nobody that was worse than bill clinton with women, okay? nobody. in the history of politics, hillary clinton's husband abused women more than any man that we know of in the history of politics, right? she's married to a man who hurt many women, and hillary, if you looked and you study, hillary hurt many women. the women that he abused. >> that statement, i'm not sure how one would fact check it or who he's talking about specifically. presumably he'll have to make those allegations more concrete. the abortion issue, this seems to be important that he is on the record pro life judge, it's 4-4 on the court right now and i don't think it's been getting the attention it will get ultimately down the stretch. >> like a lot of the inflammatory things he says
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about women, i don't think that it gets the airtime it deserves and the explanations that they deserve. so his positions on -- i was very happy that chris matthews asked him that question, because that is the position of the gop. we were talking about abortion as murder. chris christie used that term as one of the debates and i asked his team does he know what happens to women if abortion is murder, what we do to murderers or what we'll do to women and they couldn't give a response. so i'm glad we were pushing him on this position, and exposing basically what the positions of the gop mean. but i think we need to do more analysis about his flip-flops and the implications of them. >> here's the thing that strikes me important about the judge thing. he basically backed away from that, right? he went through like nine different iterations of what his policy was. but the judge, like that's pretty clear. in terms of the concrete fix,
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he's clear, and i think he has to have that position through the end if he's the republican nominee. he will appoint a pro life judge and the decision, the choice for the american people will be clear on that point. >> i'll say this. i'm not sure donald trump won't change his position again. he's continued to change his position. i don't put it past him. but i will tell you this, saying there should be punishment for women and go back to that for exercising their right to choose, that is an ad. that is a powerful ad. and that's an ad particularly when you start talking about a vacant supreme court seat and you look at certain seats and certain areas, and where that resonates even more, that's where that's going to come into play. >> this is the bottom line with trump across the board. specifically with this issue, too, he has no wiggle room here. if he wants republicans to show up, he has to say that, and he has to govern that way. >> i would have said before this primary, i would have agreed 100%.
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but this guy, whose performance of religiosity is stunningly clumsy and managed to win the republican primary. >> but his clumsiness is only that he went beyond the rhetoric for some groups. he's still selling to republican voters. they may not care about the deficit in the way we've been told by the beltway media they do, and they may not care about the size of government, if it doesn't provide them the services they want. but on these social issues, they're cut and dry. so you won't see him come out and say i'm going to appoint a judge who is pro choice. >> i disagree to the sense that he doesn't care about this. look at that clip again. he doesn't care about this. >> he's perhaps never even thought about it. >> i don't think he cares about anything. >> i don't think he's going to
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feel compelled especially oh, sorry, what i meant was, we need to repeal roe v. wade. [ overlapping speakers ] >> -- compelled by some sense of idealogical purity. it is where his power base is. >> i disagree. >> if he wants to win, he has to tow this line and there are certain things he needs to do -- >> he doesn't have to tow that line. he's not interested in party unity right now. he's said so. he said i hope they get on track, but if they don't, screw them. >> that's how he negotiates. >> liz, i was looking at one of the latest polls and it had trump winning men by 11 and hillary clinton winning women by 19. i thought, could we have a plus 25 gender split in each direction in the fall? i think it's totally possible.
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>> i was looking at the polls, like is this going to be a war of genders. and who knows? if you look at the polls, women -- it's his unfavorability, a poll that we keep hearing, with conservative women who can't imagine aligning themselves with him. when i hear him speak, i feel like he's speaking directly to men. this weekend, he said we have it worse. women have it better. "we," am i not part of this country that you're talking about? >> that's his appeal. >> his appeal is white men, and they are a shrinking demographic in this country. "the washington post" said he needed to get 7 out of 10 white men in this country to win. >> that stuck out to me, too. [ overlapping speakers ] >> younger women voters, the bernie sanders coalition, which is part of what the freakout
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to the extent there is one with the republican party. if you don't go anywhere, we won't.
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he is now the head of the republican party, as far as the voters in the country are concerned. he ran everywhere. he won everywhere. and i think tonight's numbers as well show that republicans are happy with their nominee. they turned out in two states that they didn't have to turn out but they did anyhow because they wanted to support his
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vision and plan for america. >> so there's going to be this big meeting on thursday, which is going to be really beautiful and inspirational kumbaya moment where trump and paul ryan get together. what is going on there? >> it's totally kabuki theater. it's paul ryan going to walk out and said i never had a one on one with donald trump before. he's a great guy. he's much better than he's portrayed in the liberal lame stream media or whatever it is, and this is the way he does it. the supreme court justices, we were talking about this, he's an empty vessel, donald trump, republicans are lining up to say if he says the one or two things i need him to say, then i can make my pivot. i think paul ryan will say he's a great guy when you meet one on one. >> do you think that's right?
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>> i think paul ryan will fold like a cheap tent. he's very focused on 2020 for himself and he understands where he feels that donald trump's support is broad enough, he wants that support. and he does not want to alienate trump supporters, because they are vicious and they are a crowd that's energized. and if you have aspirations, that's not a group you want to alienate. >> trump also needs paul ryan. it's like a romantic comedy in the sense will they -- >> will they get together? >> exactly. because obviously trump needs ryan and his support because of the donor class. donald trump built his campaign alienating these people. >> this is a point -- i completely agree that this point is being blown past. part of what made him able to be the kind of figure he was in the primary was the fact that he
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didn't spend any time raising money. he lent himself the money he needed and got earned media and people bought "make america great again." and that totally bypassed all of the requirements of not just the time of raising money, and he's sucking up to the donor class, fielding the e-mails, annoying you with nags and marginal tax rates, et cetera. that is going to be hard to do in the general. because he's got to do all that stuff. >> he does, but we don't know how much. we don't understand how many of the rules he's broken. >> stay broken for him. >> he did a great thing, i forget the phrase, sort of the iron hand shake or something like that with paul ryan. paul ryan said i don't want to chair the convention. he wants a way out. >> i think he's generally
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appalled at donald trump, which is not a hard position for a human being to get to. [ laughter ] trump is like, no, i want him to chair the convention. that was stone cold. it's saying hey, look, you will have to come back to me on my terms, not yours. so when ryan folds, it will be a humiliation for him. >> it's trump's brand. his whole brand, he just runs on being an effective bully. it's not just donald trump's magnetism that will make paul ryan fold faster than a cheap tent, it's because this is the plurality of the republican party. the bottom line is that donald trump is a reflection of the biggest, single chunk of that party. >> he was elected fair and square. >> and the elites are terrified of its own base. and always has been. john mccain is walking around saying my god, it's terrible that donald trump is whipping up the hispanics, they're going to jeopardize my campaign. so i'm going to vote for him.
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this is the same john mccain who had the ad in 2010 complete the dang fence, trying to play up to the same people that he -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> paul ryan needs donald trump more than donald trump needs paul ryan at this point in time. i think first of all, the notion that donald trump doesn't have some billionaire buddies that are big jerks like him is false. he has carl icahn, he has a bunch of these guys that don't want hillary clinton elected, and they will open up their pocketbooks whether trump comes crawling or not. >> among these folks, are they more scared of him losing or winning? i think that's the genuine question. which side of that bet do they want to take and which side are they rooting for? that will play out throughout the course of the next six months. thanks so much for joining me at this early hour. that does it for us this evening. it's now the next day. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now.
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happy tuesday. one of the things that happens if you run for president but you don't win is that when you come back to your old job, sometimes people clap for you. to your ol people clap for you. that's what happened after marco rubio dropped out of the race for president and returned to his seat in the senate. that's what happened today to ted cruz, who was spotted by a reporter from roll call, getting out of a car to go back to his day job. the car was very, very badly parked. do we have that picture? we don't have that picture. there we go. thank you. can we drop the -- you can see how the car's parked there? yeah. awesome. he's ted cruz. that's how he rolls. that's how he parks. he may not have won the presidential nomination. c


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