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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  May 11, 2016 1:00am-2:01am PDT

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lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> can you join us for a little election chat? >> yes. >> come on over. well, donald trump and bernie sanders are both projected both winners tonight, but bernie sanders isn't much closer to catching hillary clinton in the delegate count, and donald trump isn't much closer to uniting the republican party. >> i think with somebody like donald trump you would see a race to the bottom across our country. >> less than 48 hours to go before donald trump meets with house and senate gop leadership. >> a very, very bitter divisive primary. >> he is not ready to endorse the presumptive nominee. >> it's going to take more than a week to prepare and unite this party. >> he may very well be very competitive. >> i think he already beat them. >> there are real differences. between what i believe and what the presumptive republican nominee believes. >> i think donald trump has
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views about islam. >> the trump is internet trump. >> save your vote for the general election. forget this one. the primary's gone. >> yes. it's an inspiring message. it reminds me of patrick henry's immortal battle cry, give me liberty or don't. forget this one, i don't give a crap. it's another big night for the presumptive nominee of the republican party, donald trump, the latest from the nbc news decision desk shows both bernie sanders and donald trump have projected wins tonight in west virginia. bernie sanders picking up a comfortable win over hillary clinton there and a much bigger win for donald trump who is essentially running unopposed in west virginia. donald trump also picked up nor delega -- more delegates in nebraska.
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bernie sanders victory speech will be delivered tonight in salem, oregon where senator sanders is kpang for next week's oregon primary. he is expected to be speaking soon. we'll go to that when he does speak. joining us now, nbc's political correspondent. >> two things on this democratic race, one in west virginia. we broke this down among hillary clinton voters in west virginia tonight. we asked them, who would you vote for in the fall if its with hillary clinton against donald trump. just about all of them saying they'd vote for clinton. a few saying they'd be for trump. now check this out. bernie sanders voters in the democratic party, in west virginia, if it's sanders versus trump, more than a third said trump. you have trump supporters in this democratic primary voting for bernie sanders. and self-identified trump
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voters, 73 for sanders, 13 for clinton. >> we're going to have to leave it there for the moment because bernie sanders is speaking in oregon. let's pick up what he has to say. >> thank you! [cheers and applause] thank you, salem! [cheers and applause] oh! [cheers and applause] thank you! salem, thank you! [cheers and applause] and it sure sounds like salem, oregon is ready for the
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political revolution! [cheers and applause] this is a great turnout, and i want to thank all of you for being here. let me begin by giving you all some pretty good news. [cheers and applause] last week, last week we won a really great victory in indiana. [cheers and applause] and tonight it appears that we've won a big, big victory in west virginia! [cheers and applause]
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and, with your help, we're going to win in oregon next week! [cheers and applause] and i want to, i want to take a moment to thank the people of west virginia for the tremendous victory. i think it ends up being a double digit victory tonight. [cheers and applause] and this is a state, west virginia, where hillary clinton won by over 40 points against barack obama in 2008! [cheers and applause] west virginia is a working-class
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state, and like many other states in this country, including oregon, working people are hurting. and what the people of west virginia said tonight, and i believe the people of oregon and kentucky will say next week -- >> we love you! -- is that we need an economy that works for all of us, not just the 1%. [cheers and applause] people of this country are sick and tired of working two or three jobs. [cheers and applause] they are tired of working longer hours for lower wages. [cheers and applause]
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they are worried to death about the future of their kids. [cheers and applause] and they do not want to see almost all new wealth and income going to the top 1%. [cheers and applause] the people of west virginia, of kentucky, of oregon want an economy that works for all of us! [cheers and applause] they want to have the united states join every other major country and guarantee health care to all people as a right! [cheers and applause]
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they want to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure and create 13 million jobs. [cheers and applause] and the people of west virginia and the people of kentucky and the people of oregon understand that in the year 2016 we have got to make public colleges and universities tuition free. [cheers and applause] and, at a time of massive income and wealth inequality, where the
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top one tenth of 1% now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 90%, the people of oregon. >> boo! >> -- the people of oregon and kentucky and west virginia know that it is high time for the wealthy and large corporations to start paying their fair share of taxes. [cheers and applause] with our victory tonight in west virginia, we have now won primaries and caucuses in 19 states. [cheers and applause] and let me be as clear as i can be.
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we are in this campaign to win the democratic nomination. [cheers and applause] and we are going to fight for every last vote in oregon, kentucky, california, the dakotas -- [cheers and applause] -- now we fully acknowledge, we are good in arithmetic, that we have an uphill climb ahead of us. but we are used to fighting uphill climbs. [cheers and applause] we have been fighting uphill
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from the first day of this campaign, when people considered us a fringe candidacy. [cheers and applause] and our message to the democratic delegates who will be assembling in philadelphia, is while we may have many disagreements with secretary clinton, there is one area we agree. and that is we must defeat donald trump. [cheers and applause] and i am very happy to tell you
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we will defeat donald trump. [cheers and applause] and, if you look over the last month or six weeks at every national poll, bernie sanders defeats donald trump by big numbers. [cheers and applause] but it is not only national polls where we defeat trump by bigger numbers than secretary clinton, it is state poll after state poll after state poll. [cheers and applause] just in the last day, just in the last day, two national polls have us beating trump by bigger
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margins than secretary clinton. four statewide polls. in pennsylvania. [cheers and applause] in pennsylvania, ohio, florida and new hampshire. and every one of those polls we beat trump or do better against trump than does secretary clinton. [cheers and applause] but the reason that our campaign is the strongest campaign against trump is not just the polls. it is that our campaign is generating the energy and the enthusiasm that we need to have a large voter turnout in november. [cheers and applause] democrats and progressives win
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national elections when the voter turnout is high, when millions of people are prepared to stand up and fight back. that is what our campaign is all about. [cheers and applause] i am very proud to tell you that taking on virtually the entire democratic establishment, senators and governors and members of congress and mayors, despite all of that opposition, we have now received well over 45% of the pledged delegates. [cheers and applause] >> bernie sanders has now entered the familiar stage of his speech. rachel, you were with him in
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vermont on friday here he is with another victory speech tonight. and why change what's working. he said we're in it to win it. >> it's interesting this point of the sanders campaign, he says we're in it to win it. he told me if they don't have the pledged delegate lead at the end of the race, they will go to the convention any way and fight for the flplatform. so that will be the fight. it will be interesting to see. if at the end of the race he stays through just not through the dakotas and california. i don't know what he wants other than to win. he's not running a protest campaign. he's not running a message campaign. he is running to win. if and when i think i does not win, because i do think hillary clinton does have a realistically insurmountable lead. his stump speech hasn't changed. he hasn't made an ask, and he doesn't seem to be building an organization that would
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capitalize on what he's doing. that's why he continues to be super newsworthy. we don't know how this is going to end for him. we don't know what he wants yet. >> what can you tell us? >> i don't want to make this too complicated. but what you're looking at is what happened in march. this is binding, they gave out dells from this. but they also had a primary in nebraska. democratic primary. it's non-binding. there's no delegates at stake, but it gets to the heart of a major argument the clinton campaign has been miaking. when you have more people vote, it hurts. about 40% is in in nebraska. but hillary clinton is getting 59% of the vote.
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bernie sanders is getting 41%. i can tell you. the decision desk here at nbc is not going to be calling this raechlts the associated press about 15 minutes ago looked at the returns and are calling nebraska for hillary clinton in the democratic primary. this is significant, because the turnout here looks like it's going to be three to four times larger than it was for the caucus that bernie sanders won. so you think of those small states where bernie sanders wrapped up big margins, idaho, alaska, colorado, the clinton campaign has been saying if they had primaries, more people vote, we do better. if you look at these results in nebraska, what we are seeing, and they're still counting them. our decision desk is not going to touch this. only the associated press has. but if you go by what the
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associated press says, this bolsters what the clinton campaign has been staying a primary in nebraska, a completely different result than what we're seeing in the caucus. >> joining us with the washington post and by satellite, steve schmid. gene, here we have this mixed result for hillary clinton tonight. in a campaign that seems inevitable, if you do the delegate math. but there's something about watching bernie sanders go out there and give victory speeches that has to be unnerving to the clinton campaign. >> got to be annoying. got to be a lot of things. it's not fun, right. this was not actually, you know, i understand what steve kornacki said. and that's a good and valid point to make. however, this was a beauty contest tonight in nebraska. it did not count. >> no one campaigned. >> so it's not exactly fair --
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>> about the polls that day. >> exactly. and when it counted, you know, bernie sanders won so this is not a great night for hillary clinton, even though, because bernie sanders is going to gain, what, three delegates? a net of three delegates or so? it's insignificant progress in trying to erode her big delegate lead. so that's basically unchanged. and there's another primary off the board. so she has to feel good about that. yet, it's hard to feel good when you're quoted as delivering a victory speech. you can't get rid of this guy. he keeps going, and, as rachel just said, you don't quite know what his end game is. you don't know ha what he wants. he runs as if he intends to win. >> he's not asking for anything other than winning. >> at the least, he keeps hillary in pivoting to the center. at this point in the campaign,
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she would be pivoting to the center. she's been pulled left by bernie, and he wants to keep her tethered there. >> maybe her pivot has to go the other direction, know what i'm saying? >> i don't know where the center is. >> she came out renewed for the public option today. she's halfway to medicare for all. >> let's see if there's a center from the republican perspective. steve schmid, where is the center if either donald trump or hillary clinton or bernie sanders is a nominee wanted to find it. >> look at the poll as an example. republicans have made this a major point of conservative orthodoxy against any type of tax increase, including justifying, and it's very difficult to justify it, essentially, a different tax rate if you work in the financial services industry. donald trump said no to that. he's rejected the free trade premise of the modern republican party. he is to the left of hillary
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clinton as we conventionally define it with regard to the iraq war, with regard to the libya intervention. so, as we've gotten used to presidential politics over the last several cycles with a pretty predictable issue set, pretty good sense where the 50 yard line on, this election scrambles a lot of that up. >> and rachel, it seems the trump campaign is such a fog of -- i don't even know what you call it. you can't call them positions exactly. i don't, it's not clear to me that voters have a fixed notion on the map of right to left of where donald trump is. >> and to the point, that ends up being super interesting. you play by the playbook, it means you tack to your party's ideological edge, and then you come back to the center. in this case it's going to be scrambled. >> i have a slightly different view from that. i think trump lets people project whatever they want to
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project. if they hear that he's going to raise tax rates on the rich, he has said something to that belief. if you want him to say he wants to lower tax rates, he lets them project. not only on the policies but on the greatness of america here to come. >> he writes stuff down, though. he tends to write down really right wing stuff. then he talks about it in a way that sounds confusing. >> i think that's, that was a great way of putting it, because he is kind of a rorschach test. at the same time, i think we have an idea of the traditional left/right spectrum. and to a certain extent, trump doesn't play on that axis. >> celebrity axis. >> yeah, that's part the celebrity axis. populist axis? you know. >> but isn't hillary clinton stuck, though, with the more
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traditional frame that people use to look at politicians, meaning they actually are mapping her in left/right. because they can, because her positions are coherent and clear and you can actually catalog what she thinks about everything. >> how foolish of her, right? to be clear. >> honestly, when it comes down to it, i was looking back today at some of the criticism that donald trump has levied against republicans in the past. he's criticized paul ryan and mitt romney. he's basically criticized republicans from the left. i don't know the way he's going to criticize hillary clinton other than by being super sexist, which we've seen. i don't know what his line of attack will be. i do feel like he's a little bit uncaged. the stuff he has committed to is right wing. he doesn't like to talk about it in right wing terms. and when you have an opponent like that, hillary clinton has to ignore that and run her own campaign and make the best positive case for herself,
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regardless of this unknowable beast that she's running against. >> i think you have to redefine the phrase "committed to." because he has made it clear that his commitments are -- >> day to day, hour-to-hour. >> i should be able to change. that's true. >> we're going to have to take a quick break. thank you for staying, rachel. >> i'm happy to. coming up, the struggle for republican party unity. what does paul ryan need to hear from donald trump this week?
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do you see any way to compromise with donald trump that would not be a betrayal of conservative ideas and policy? >> of course, absolutely i do. >> and who do you suggest -- >> we're going to get into this whole thing. what i want to see is all conservatives rally together to win this election and defeat hillary clinton and make sure we put conservatives in the supreme court and keep congress. this is the mountain we have to climb. >> that was speaker paul ryan today in an interview with the wall street journal. steve kornacki is back with us. >> they pefeel their party's divided. in west virginia, a third of them say this is a party that's going to stay divided. in nebraska that number's nearly half the electorate on the
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republican side. same thing when you turn around and say what do you think the fall. the vast majority say we're going to win anyway. for context, this is donald trump, a number that's going to have to be adjusted when all the numbers come in tonight. it will go up because he won big. but coming in to tonight, he won 40.2% of all the votes in the republican primaries, you say that's a low number. but look at the last republican nominee, mitt romney, when he clenched the nomination, when his last viable opponents dropped out, he was basically where trump was. when you go back to 2008, when mccain clenched it, he was under 40%. so if you look at the 40.2% for trump, the 41% for romney, nothing that unusual. >> and joining us, supervisor
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for the never trump super pac, and a former supporter of ted cruz. where does never trump go now? >> first i'd look at a couple things. on the exit polls. that's largely a self-selected group of trump supporters. so i don't know what we can pull from that. if you look at the exit polls on the democratic side and the disaffected veets oters who are looking to bernie sanders, i think hillary clinton may owe trump a big thank you. you are looking at what would have been a loss for her. so what we're going to be doing at nevertrump.com is to continue to shine a line between what the conservative movement is all about and what donald trump is all about, which we feel is you
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know, a football field difference. >> paul cuccinelli, how is hath going to be closed? >> that lies in the hands of the presumptive nominee. what is he going to do? what positions is he going to take? eugene robinson said something earlier. he said we're going to have to redefine "committed." what does he have to say to paul ryan. it isn't the saying that is going to cut the mustard here. we need to see over a long period of time and under fire a commitment to smaller government, more freedom-type principles, conservative principles, and that's not something that donald trump has really excelled at in the past. so that's how you attract disaffected republicans. it's with principles. it isn't with more, you know, more showmanship. that isn't going to cut it. >> let's listen to what paul ryan said today about the
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upcoming meeting. >> i don't go into thursday with, with huge expectations other than just to have a conversation of that we need to start having so that we are getting ourselves on the same page as a party. we don't know each other. we talk the once a month ago on the phone. a very good conversation, i walked him through what our agenda project was in the house and a very pleasant exchange with him. >> kathryn, we have neff sever anything like this. and i think paul ryan is handling it perfectly, distancing himself from trump. his goal is to remain speaker. if trump wins, okay, but the most important thing is winning the house, and if that means separating from trump, that's what it means. >> if he aligns himself with trump, it could potentially put himself in trouble but also the broader view of the party. and those other, those other house and senate campaigns as
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well, who might be in trouble. and who could potentially be hurt by the very negative views of trump. >> here are a couple of things that we can be sure donald trump does not know. number one, the speaker of the house is more powerful than a presidential candidate. number two, the speaker of the house is more powerful than the president of the united states, when the speaker of the house chooses to be on matters of legislation. is there any possibility that any one can make that understood by donald trump before he walks into the speaker's office? >> i suspect with donald trump, what he's counting on if he's counting on anything besides his gut instinct, it's that the republican electorate, the rank and file voters, there's evidence out there that they're a lot farther along when it comes to rallying behind donald trump than the leaders of washington, the group leaders out there that we've seen. they had this national poll out there, put trump against clinton, how are they voting?
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84% of republicans say they're going to vote for trump over hillary clinton. that's not quite where he needs to be. but that's getting close. mccain was at 90, romney was at 93. that's basically where you need to be in the low 90s. look through his path to the nomination. there's been a lot of noise about he didn't get 50%. but he really is in line with what we've seen before. i suspect if we start seeing a couple polls. we saw a couple today, but if we see more like today, that show him within striking distance of hillary clinton, there's going to be a lot of pressure from the rank and file of this party that wants to beat hillary clinton on the lead earns to get on board and beat hillary clinton. >> rory cooper, donald trump is revealing what i've been saying for many, many years is that you cannot afford a presidential campaign. he's going to go for fund-raising like everyone has before him. there is no real trump apparatus for fund-raising. how do they make up that gap?
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>> i don't think that they're going to. and i think that they are going to have a big problem with fund-raising, and to steve's point, i don't think that romney or mccain were anywhere near trump onion fav unfavorables wh came to women or hispanics. when it comes to the fog of donald trump, he can come and say he will support any policy position that you may hike, but you really don't know if he's going to change his mind five minutes later when talking to someone else. what he has to demonstrate is that he has serious contrition over his major character flaws, not just a set of policy principles, although that's a major part of it. it's also having moral values, you don't have to turn your tv off when the children are in the room. that's something to demonstrate, and ultimately, that's going to hurt him with republicans in the
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general election and independents, is this someone who we believe should be president of the united states. >> let's imagine that paul ryan wants to support donald trump, really, really wants to support him. what would be the principles and the policy positions paul ryan would have to publicly abandon in order to support donald trump? >> well, certainly, it isn't so much any particular position, except that donald trump has been on both sides of so many issues, whether it's taxes, whether it's various parts of immigration, trade, life, certainly a core issue for paul ryan. i mean, what is he today? and proving some constansy and some expectation of consistency after election day is critical. and i don't know how donald trump does that except to power through for five months and not give ground when he's being beaten on by the media and
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hillary clinton. >> thank you all for joining us. we appreciate it. >> thanks, lawrence. coming up in the war room. has the clinton campaign figured out how to respond to donald trump's attacks?
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time for tonight's war room. the presidential campaign war room is where the top officials plan the strategies to handle the candidates' most important challenges. it's where you want to be in a campaign. the clinton war room strategy has been to avoid having their candidate respond directly to donald trump's attacks. here's how hillary clinton handled it tonight. >> insulting women, i don't care what he says about me, but i do resent what he says about other people, other successful women. women who have worked hard. women who have done their part. we are, after all, 51% of the country. >> today donald trump tweeted the clintons spend millions on negative ads on my, and i can't tell the truth about her husband? don't feel sorry for crooked
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hillary. but the trump war room shifted to benghazi with a new instagram video captioned, hillary has bad judgment. here it is. >> we've seen rage and violence directed at american embassies over an awful internet video. >> she lied to me. she told me it was the fault of the video. >> she said, we are going to have the film maker arrested who is responsible for the death of your son. >> so she did say to you that the benghazi attack was caused by protests. >> absolutely. [ laughter ] >> i don't know why that's funny. >> 183 days left for the campaign war rooms. joining us tonight in the last word war room, steve schmid, director of the george w. bush war room. and the director of the obama
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war room. what do you make of the clinton campaign to not directly respond to these attacks? >> if i were in the war room i would say the strategy so far is that donald trump goes low, we go high. we focus on substance and the urgent issues before the american people. but winning campaigns are also about compelling contrasts and compelling choices. and we need to make a further pivot to make clear that when donald trump attacks women, he doesn't respect women, and therefore, he's not going to stand up for you with his policies. he's attacked hispanics. he's attacked many others during this campaign and taken each one of those moments to say this is romney's 47% tape on steroids. i think it's really important the campaign responds to those kinds of comments. >> steve schmid, in the clinton war room, do you see any attacks against donald trump or responses to trump attacks that worked? >> not by any of the republican
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candidates, but the general election will be different. there are five outsized moments coming up, the vice presidential pick, the debates. and donald trump's going to have to have a commander in chief threshold. so hillary clinton, when she looks at the demographics. if you look at the states democrats have won. there are 12 more needed to win. if she can keep him from recovering with women voters, very difficult for him to win. if she dcan disqualify him as a plausible commander in chief on grounds of fitness, and that is the real issue holding these republicans back from an endorsement. it's not an ideological issue. it's not that he put out mean tweets about this person or that person. it's real questions about his temperament, and that's how i expect she'll go at him. she'll do everything she can to
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open the door, i suspect, moderate republican women, moderate republicans saying we haven't always agreed, but there's a home for you in this campaign. we can make the country better together. >> let's listen to what hillary clinton said tonight. it fits a little bit of what steve was just saying. >> when you are running for and serving as president, you'd better mean what you say. so, when he casually says he doesn't care if more countries get nuclear weapons, i shudder. when he says he wants to withdraw from nato, the most successful military alliance in history, i say, and what are we going to substitute for it? so i got to tell you. i, i am, if i'm fortunate enough to be the nominee, i am looking forward to debating donald trump come the fall. >> ben, they're obviously working on a lot of the polling that indicates there's a lot of fear of a donald trump presidency out there. an inorder nant amount of fear
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among voters. >> i think from a message perspective, it's important to lock into one narrative. so either donald trump is extreme, or he's unsteady. and it's important to stick with that singular critique of his foreign policy throughout the campaign, because he has said some very extreme things, at the same time, he's been all over the map, which suggests he'd be an unsteady commander in chief. >> let's take a look at what a pro-clinton super pac is doing. they're using some bits of trump from howard stern, that sort of thing. let's take a look at this. >> because nobody respects women more than donald trump. ♪ she came to my wedding. she ate like a pig. and seriously, the wedding cake was like missing in action. does she have a good body? no. does she have a fat ass? absolutely. i have no respect for her. i think she's highly overrated. when i came out, you could see there was blood coming out of
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her eyes. blood coming out of her -- wherever. >> steve, that's not fwrt clinton war room. that's from a super pac that they can't coordinate with, but is that helpful? >> i don't know that it's helpful or unhelpful. i suspect that most every american woman in this country's going to vote has made an impression on, made an impression of donald trump over the course of the campaign. and i think what we've seen is the real diminishing effect of the 30-second ads as conveyers of negative information. the back and forth between the candidate the on an hourly basis in the news cycle, the massive amount of free media coverage, social media, that's what's driving the narrative, not the super pac ads. >> thank you both for joining us tonight appreciate it. coming up, with new polls showing donald trump tied with hillary clinton in battleground
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states, just how worried should democrats be? is it time to stop celebrating donald trump being the republican nominee?
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when asked their reaction to donald trump being the republican nominee, 47% of voters said they are scared. 35% say they are scared of hillary clinton being the democratic nominee. up next, a new poll showing how tight it is in some battleground states between hillary clinton and donald trump.
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a new poll of three battleground states, three important states shows hillary clinton virtually tied with donald trump, shows bernie sanders doing a little better against donald trump, but it is not good news for democrats in that poll. that's next.
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should the democrats celebrate donald trump's being the republican nominee? or should they fear it? washington post editorial's ed hyatt comes down on the side of fear, saying democrats need to be running scared, smart but scared, now for the next six months.
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joining us again, our panel. jonathan allen, we've got these new battleground state polls in three states, i think we're go being to get them up on the screen here. pennsylvania, florida, ohio, and what we're seeing there is donald trump, basically tied with hillary clinton in pennsylvania and florida and ohio. we see efficiency thif they put hillary clinton falling behind donald trump. bernie sanders doing better in pennsylvania with a lead over trump and in ohio and florida bernie sanders is essentially tied with donald trump within the margin of error in both of those states.
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so, if that kind of polling polls, that's a whole new story for the democrats. >> i think a lot of democrats thought through the republican primary that it would be a great thing for them to get donald trump, and what we've seen is donald trump has decimated everyone in his path. now the republican primary electorate's very different from the general election electorate, and he has alienated a whole lot of people. but i think democrats are making a huge mistake if they think this is going to be an easy election for them, if they think it's going to be an easy election for hillary clinton. her unfavorables are still pretty bad. >> you can't just make assumptions based on one, but there's been a consistent. bernie sanders has had much bigger leads than that over donald trump, and we've seen his lead narrow now. but those numbers for hillary clinton are very alarming. >> they are very alarming if you are hillary clinton or if you are aghast at donald trump and the many things that he stands
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for or doesn't stand for. >> those that are afraid of donald trump. >> what it comes down to is as john said, hillary's unfavorables are quite high. if not for donald trump, she would be historically, at the extreme end in favorablebility or rather unfavorable blbility. but you have the american population has historic levels of distrust of the government, you have polling data going back 50 years showing americans are very, very unhappy with political leadership, very unhappy with the direction this country is going in. there's poll day tta to confirm that as well. hillary clinton is associated with the establishment. if americans are unhappy with the economy and the way the country is going, and hillary clinton represents that, regardless of what donald trump
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stands for, they're going to be a little turned off by her and going to vote for the candidate who seems to be putting his thumb in the eye of the establishment. >> as the super delegates stare at these polls. this is one poll, if three, four weeks from now, five weeks from now, there's a bunch of polls indicating this same kind of thing, at some point, the super delegates are going to start to get nervous about what's happening here to their presumptive nominee. >> i think democratic elected officials are by their very nature nervous people. >> yes, they are. >> i think david plouffe used to call them bedwetters. the bernie sanders polling is generally viewed among democratic elites as something that would change if he suddenly started getting hit. the democratic campaign is, as acura moanous as it's been among the supporters, it really hasn't been that negative by historical
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standards, so i think there's some concern that if bernie sanders were to get into a general election against donald trump, those numbers might fold pretty quickly. i don't see or hear or nor am i able to report any movement among super delegates at this point, nor do i expect it. >> kathryn, the sanders campaign still, though, insists, as they did at the beginning of the show, bernie sanders himself, in it to win it. and so, and no one's figured out what else he might be in this for. >> that's true. you know, as i mentioned before, i think part of what he might be angling for is to keep hillary clinton from tacking toward the center. i think that might be part of it, and not just hillary clinton but the democratic party. he has explicitly said if he doesn't have the delegates going into the convention is that one thing he will be doing is shaping the party in his progressive mold, fighting for
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health care, child care, $15 minimum wage, things like that. if he is not victorious on that level, prance he'll have some influence on those other have s influence on the other matters. >> that has to be our last word. thank you both for joining us. it's wednesday, may 11th. right now on "first look," a bizarre night in west virginia as donald trump supporters give bernie sanders a big boost on primary night. a man goes on a violent stabbing rampage, multiple deaths and injuries reported. a son for prince? plus new developments into his final days and a doctor who may have treated prince just hours before his death. plus, tornadoes continue to wreak havoc in the midwest and the discovery of nine goldilock planets that resemble earth. is there life out there? "first look" starts right now. good morning, everyone. i'm dara brown.

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