tv Morning Joe MSNBC May 12, 2016 3:00am-6:01am PDT
ma bo-bemma ♪ ♪ banana-fana-fo-femma ♪ fee-fi-fo-femma ♪ em-ma very good sweety, how do you feel? good. yeah? you did a really good job, okay? [ female announcer ] to nurses everywhere, thank you, from johnson & johnson. donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states. >> normally i do not comment on what's going on in the presidential election. i will take an exception today.
this is not conservatism. i have a special rule as chair of the republican convention, i stay neutral and i support the nominee. >> everything that you don't want is in that budget. i say, where was paul ryan? >> if he becomes the nominee of the party, will you support him? >> yes, i will. i'll support whoever the nominee is. >> remember the wheelchair pushed over the click when you had ryan as the chairman. >> ku klux klan. >> i don't know david duke. >> if a person wants to be a nominee of the republican party, there can be no evasion and no games. >> paul ryan, i don't know him well. i'm sure i'll get along great with him. if i don't, he's go to have to pay a big price. >> i laughed out loud. sometimes reality is stranger than fiction. we'll cross that bridge when we get to it. i'm a good natured guy, so i get along with everybody. >> i don't think automatically. i think you'd have riots. >> to even address or hint to
violence is unacceptable. >> how do you like paul ryan? how do you like him? all right. >> now you have a presumptive nominee donald trump, will you support him? >> i'm just not ready to do that at this point. >> i didn't get paul ryan. i don't know what happened. >> oh, it's going to be fun today on capitol hill. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." a big day up there. with us we've got former communications director for george w. bush miss nicolle wallace, legendary. i do say legendary. >> epic. >> veteran means old. legendary means you're a legend. you're still playing, in the game, a legend. mike barnicle. this is co-host of with all do respect showing no respect. 6:00 a.m. on msnbc, john heilemann and former advertising guru branding and marketing expert donald deutsche.
>> he's legendary, too. >> you've got legendary and former something. i'm former something. >> did you work in the ad business. >> i did it well. >> it worked out. >> this is a great crew. it could be an excellent morning or one of those mornings -- >> where we have to issue an apology by 9:00 a.m. >> we'll walk that line. set up this day in washington. pivotal for leaders of the republican party. getting ready to meet with donald trump to hammer out differences you saw and forge a path ahead. we'll give you live looks at action in washington, d.c., all morning. >> wow. >> isn't that exciting? a live look in. official agenda gets under way at 9:00 a.m. >> tornado path. >> rnc chairman reince priebus and paul ryan will meet at republican national headquarters. at 9:30 trump and speaker ryan hold another meeting with house gop leadership. also at the rnc that meeting
will include house majority leader kevin mccarthy who is now a trump delegate. house majority whip steve scalise, republican chair cathy rodgers and patrick henry from north carolina. ryan declined to specify which policy issues he wished to address but welcomed the opportunity to spend time with donald trump. >> i don't really know him. i met him once in person in 2012. we had a very good conversation in march on the phone. we just need to get to know each other. we, as a leadership team, are enjoying the fact we have a chance to meet with him. so i'd rather have a conversation in person than through the media, no offense. >> joe, what are you expecting to see on capitol hill. paul ryan has been out publicly for a week or so saying i'm not going to endorse. every day he goes out and talks about what he wants from donald trump. who gives and who takes for this
meeting? >> as long as the trump teams listens to what paul ryan says going into the meeting, respect what they are saying and understand you don't have to crumple to the earth and roll in agony, you win, donald, you win, i think everything will work out fine. paul ryan has his own political future. other politicians have their own political future. they have a time line that is not donald trump's time line. if he's patient and waits, paul ryan and others will do what mitch mcconnell did, they will get behind him. it just may not be on his timeframe. if he chooses to have a meeting with paul ryan and insult paul ryan afterwards because ryan doesn't immediately endorse him, then that will make the process longer and tougher. there's a part of donald trump that says i don't need paul ryan. i don't need the republican
establishment. anybody that's with me strengthens me in a way. if donald trump really does want to win, really does want to be president of the united states, really wants to govern, he needs the republican speaker of the house on his side. they should just play nice today. it's an old broadway music song "getting to know you" they need to get to know each other and good things will most likely come in the end. >> what is paul ryan hoping to extract from donald trump? mitch mcconnell, it's a tepid endorsement but said i'll support donald trump. paul ryan has not been willing to go that far. what could happen in that room to change paul ryan's opinion and say i'll get behind donald trump. >> i think anything can happen in the room today that is going to cause an immediate about face. the two of them on a huge number of issues of policy, ideology, they are divergent. they are never going to be on the same side. on issues like immigration,
entitlement, reform, ideology cal project that is ryanism. i do think tonaly they can get through the meeting and come out the other side if, as joe said, trump doesn't go on the war pathogens ryan. have you a long walk through the woods. again, if trump acts a way ryan thinks will maintain a house majority, ryan could get comfortable with living with trump if not loving trump. >> they could forge a personal relationship if they don't agree on policy. >> that's the most important thing. for trump it's respect. he's constantly felt disrused since he moved from queens to politics. that's extended to politics. he wins it all, fees disrespected. paul ryan is a great guy. i've known him since he was 22 yeerds. he was very polite one-on-one. he'll be polite today, too. whether you're polite or not, if
you're a republican who comes out of the kemp wing of the republican party, it's hard for you to just turn on a dime and support a guy who is on the wrong side of history as far as you're concerned on immigration, the wrong side of history on trade, as paul ryan is concerned, on taxes where he's changed his position over the past couple of days, on the minimum wage where he's changed his position the past couple of days, and on a bevy of other issues. he could love donald trump and still say, okay, how do i get behind this guy without destroying my own support when i run for president in 2020. >> listen, paul ryan, as you recall, was cajoled into taking this job. one of the sort of conditions or endeavors of becoming gop speaker after the boehner period was that he would use the mantel to make the party the party of
ideas. ideas are central to paul ryan's entire speakership. i think it's more than just disagreeing with the ideas, i think it's tearing down the new tone. paul ryan gave a speech about civility. paul ryan cares about the future of the gop. paul ryan doesn't want to talk about bringing women and more diverse republicans into the party, he wants to enact an agenda that attracts them. i think you have to look at this almost like two leaders of two different parties. i worked for bush when the bush and pelosi relationship was forged. this is almost like two important leaders of two different movements getting together and finding a way to collaborate. >> also, willie, you look at their background, willie, it's also two leaders from two completely different historical views. paul ryan, like myself, we've seen the republican party lose the white house five out of the last six times in the popular
vote. donald trump, well, you know, in 2008 was giving money and supporting hillary clinton in the democratic party. so for paul ryan, he's been fighting this his whole life. he's been fighting the conservative cause his whole life. donald trump has been fighting it since somewhere around 2011. so i don't think paul ryan is going to get swayed by threats. certainly is not going to jump on donald trump's bandwagon simply because donald trump says it's time. >> the day does not end with paul ryan for donald trump. a play by play, he'll meet with mitch mcconnell, his team offices, majority whit john cornyn will also be there. >> look at that. those are war graphics. this is very impressive. >> this is big. orrin hatch will be there, roger wicker of mississippi. wicker is leading the effort to
retain republican majority last month informed vulnerable meches to stay away from the convention if it would be divisive. two senators facing contests, roy blunt and portman in ohio will meet with trump, so will senators john brasso john thune of south dakota and shelly moore cap ito from west virginia. he requested the meeting and the agenda is him. unlike mcconnell, ryan's team said they are ready to work with trump. they do not wan to show disdain for voters who voted for trump. in an interview last night, trump was the one being deferential. >> who is the leader, you're presumptive, not nominee, and speaker of the house paul ryan, so who is the leader? >> i would say paul ryan. i would really think that i'm doing very well. i think i've set the all-time record for votes gotten by a republican candidate, but i would say paul for the time being and maybe for a long time.
>> let me read you a line donald trump quoted yesterday and maybe in the "new york times," talking about changing his tone for paul ryan and everybody else. quote, you win the pennant, now you're in the world series. am i going to change? people like what i've been doing. why should i bend for them? >> particularly last few days swing state polls in a dead heat. logically if you're donald trump or anybody else, wait, you keep telling me i'm doing this wrong and it keeps going right. the thing where ryan and trump -- where ryan will never be able to get fully on board is the word that you keep picking up is the tone. at the end of the day, look, you're for minimum wage, a populist view, not a traditional republican view. the vitriol, the muslim stuff, the wall stuff. if you notice every time even in your setup piece, every time ryan was coming after trump, it was not ideologicallideological
tone wise. if i was talking to donned, i still don't get this one thing, he's not going to lose a voter, he's not going to lose any of his testosterone if he just softens up a bit on those two hateful tonal messages. he can keep everything else the same. he can even say, you know what, when i was talking about a wall, i mean -- we've got to do something about it, this has got to change. that's the one place if i'm paul ryan and i have a political future and i am, as he said, standard bearer of the party of lincoln, reagan, eisenhower, that's the piece that's got to shift before he can emotionally get on board. >> so, donnie, i see him backing off the muslim ban. the wall, he's not going to be able to back off of that. it was such a big part of his
rep repertoire. would be like beatles in 1974 saying we're going to play all our songs but not ooh i'm going to hold your hand." >> the metaphor itself. >> mike barnicle, the muslim ban. this is something that will continue to give him problems throughout the fall. i think we've started to see movement there and i suspect we will see donald trump backing off that muslim ban. that's something that caused paul ryan concern, caused me concern, caused a lot of republicans concern that has little to do with ideology and more to do with tone and more of an attitude towards, quote, the others. people who aren't white, people who aren't conservative, people who aren't, you know, the standard -- basically what the republican party is looking like right now and has to change and has to grow. this muslim ban, yes, it will
lose him 1 to 2% of voters in america that are muslim american but also a hell of a lot of suburban housewives outside of philadelphia and across america if he seems intolerant. >> a couple of things are pretty clear about what's going to happen. one, the coverage is going to be so over the top it's going to be overwhelming. we're going to be covering donald trump's walk from one side of the capitol to the other the way we covered o.j. simpson's white bronco. their vision of the republican party is a bit different than donald j. trump's vision is right now and their constituencies are different. their constituencies are retention of the senate, the house and donald's is to become president of the united states of that's going to be the collision point. to tone is going to get to -- the day is going to go fine. no one is going to come out
saying i won the arm wrestling contest and he lost. 24 hours now is it going to be cryin' ryan on the donald trump feed? that's where the rubber meets the road. >> as trump pivots a bit to the general election, looks like he might be softening the rhetoric on the proposed muslim ban. it came as he responded to these comments from new london mayor sadiq khan. trump could be the exception to the proposed ban of muslims to the u.s. >> your views of islam are ignora ignorant. it is possible to be a muslim and live in the west. it is possible to be a muslim and to love america. >> if you look at this radical islamic terrorism all over the world right now, it's a disaster what's going on. i assume he's denying that. i assume he's like our president that's denying it's taking place. we have a serious problem.
it's a temporary ban. it hasn't been called for yet, nobody has done it. this is just a suggestion until we find out what's going on. >> have you decided whether you back off on the ban. i realize a temporary ban but with unlimited temporary period could go on forever. >> sure, i'd like to back off of it. i'd like to back off as soon as possible. we have exceptions. again, it's temporary. >> joe, i'm not sure how much of softening that is exactly. that's kind of what he's been saying all along. if there's a ban it would be temporary to find out what's going on. if he did soften further i don't know how you put the jeannie back in the bottle after saying again and again you think it would be a good idea to ban muslims coming to america. >> we showed a "politico" headline and it seems to me pretty obvious what donald trump is doing. he's selecting rudy giuliani to head a commission on immigration. giuliani will most likely come back with a plan that says,
okay, this is how we're tough on immigration. this is how we allow some muslims in, but these are the restrictions we have on muslims that come from war-torn countries that help foster the growth of isis terrorists. so for instance, trump might -- donald trump might, nicolle, allow muslims to come in from other parts of the world but be restrictive in syria and other countries like that that are war-torn right now, where they can't do adequate background checks. when i saw the giuliani news, i think that's exactly what he's going to do. he's going to come off the ban. he's going to have america's mayor, a guy who is tough as nails, come up with a plan to limit refugees that are coming in and limit immigrants who are coming in to only those that we know aren't a safety hazard to the united states. >> yeah, and this is where donald trump successfully sort
of limits the conversation between himself and the general public and leaves the elites and pundit class scratching their head. it sounds backward to all of us. in a main line conversation where he's just main lining gut reaction and gut impulses to the general public, this sounds totally reasonable. do something that offends a large group so you can catch a smaller group that threatens our safety. i don't think anyone is more associated with the narrow task of addressing the threat of radical islamic extremism than the mayor who responded to 9/11. but he sure spent a whole lot of months offending a larger group of people and leaving, again, that pundit class skrask their heads. why take on all that water when you could have initially narrowed the focus and narrowed the target to the people who represent a legitimate and historic threat to america. >> what's interesting is the two people he's appointed the last few weeks, christie and
giuliani. he's doubling down on his brand, strength. >> because of women. this is what he needs. this the issue they are most receptive to. >> i know we have to go to break. can we pause and step back and consider who we are. we're the united states of america, and we have a potential candidate nomination for president one major political party basically suggesting we are going to put someone at the door to the united states of america saying, now, what faith are you before you enter? >> and someone inside the door saying you all have to leave. that's where the wall -- they talk about making america great, the most un-american things you can say. >> to nicolle's point as we scratched our head, you look at exit poll after exit poll in republican primary, support for muslim ban works with the majority, perhaps not the general election. still ahead on "morning joe" -- go ahead, joe. >> that was the most staggering exit poll i saw from one state
after another state. some states were 40, 50, 60% of the people that voted in the republican primaries, by only a percentage of actual republicans in those states. but supported a muslim ban. if the question is why did donald trump do it during the primary but now is talking about changing to being a bit more expansive, as nicolle asked, sounds like it's just cynical politics. he now goes to a general electorate who opposes a muslim ban. i think about 60% of americans oppose it. now is the time. he told mika he's going to shift to the middle once he won the nomination. we've seen it on taxes. we've seen it on minimum wage. i think most americans would say fortunately we may be starting to see it on this muslim ban.
>> two leading conservatives weigh in on donald trump's trip to capitol hill, joining the conversation. plus the former first lady of the united states laura bush along with her daughter jenna bush hager on set with us. the ragin' cajun, james carville, his take on hillary clinton's long slog to the nomination. bill karins as we prepare for another day of severe weather. >> good morning, willie. thankfully we didn't have any tornadoes of any significance. we don't have any pictures to show you. hail damage, wind in some part. hardest hit, the area with the most hail, this was very impressive, it happened this time yesterday morning in omaha, nebraska. it was so deep in some areas that they actually had to use a front end loader to get some of the hail out of the region. let's get to the maps. we've all dropped our severe
thunderstorm watches. nasty storms heading for little rock. a few thunderstorms along lakeshore between toledo and cleveland and numerous areas of rain through kentucky. as we go throughout the day today, this front marches to the east, on friday rain, showers widespread mississippi, alabama, tennessee up through kentucky and ohio included. so bring the umbrellas there. it's not going to rain all day but storms in and out. maybe an inch or so possible from areas nashville back to bristol, tennessee. today's forecast, also gorgeous weather new york city through new england, southeast not bad. our friends in washington, d.c., cloudy and 74. if you get a little bit of rain before midnight tonight, that will be 16 days in a row with rainfall in the nation's capital. a very gloomy may continues. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.
i never thought i would be saying this, but senator cruz, you should move a little farther to the right. >> it's the worst. it's the worst. >> sometimes it's not on purpose. >> doesn't he seem like the guy that would do that. >> i'm a terrible parker. i'm a bad parker. >> you know who has a problem -- >> hard to maneuver. >> you always see him half in the handicap spot, half out. >> that's annoying. >> it's tough. the handles, you're used to a steering wheel. the rascal doesn't have as much power as a car so one swing in. >> usually pulls it right into the store. all right. turn to democratic side bernie sanders pinned his path to nomination on the state of california. there's signs of trouble there. nbc news confirmed his campaign parted ways with california
state director. the campaign has given no reason for that split but they have already filled the position, robert becker who won several other states for sanders will now head to california. sanders held two campaign rallies in montana yesterday. 4800 people attended his event in missoula. according to sanders campaign, another 4300 were not able to get in. sanders also spoke with msnbc's andrea mitchell yesterday. in one tense moment sanders responded to the criticism that he's responsible for hillary clinton having to face attacks from two front. >> hillary clinton, the opposition to her, negatives to her have been built up by donald trump hammering away at her. up until now, at least, he has not been going after you as much. she's fighting two candidates and you're fighting one? >> really? really? andrea, in every state that we have won, in 19 states, we have had to take on the entire
democratic establishment. we've had to take on senators and governors and mayors and members of congress, that's what we have taken on. please do not moan to me about hillary clinton's problems. >> one other thing, sanders campaign went on to attack clinton in a fundraising e-mail writing in part, this is pretty scary, sisters and brothers. a trio of polls released yesterday showed hillary clinton in a very difficult spot against donald trump. we are the best chance to defeat trump, because people united can never be defeated. joe, anybody who thought senator sanders was going to step to the side for hillary clinton were sorely mistaken. he even talked yesterday about it being a disaster if hillary clinton were nominated because donald trump might beat her. >> yeah, you look at the polls that came out a couple days ago that we were talking about, whether nbc survey monkey poll or whether all the quinnipiac state polls. john heilemann, bernie sanders continues to outperform hillary
clinton in every poll and matchup against donald trump. more importantly than that, he keeps winning states. he keeps raising a lot of money, and he keeps getting massive crowds showing up at his events. we've never seen anything quite like this where a candidate that the entire democratic party is working against seems to be moving towards defeat but picking up more momentum every day. >> yeah, it's true. look, i mean, there was a little something like this in 2008 with hillary clinton, joe. you recall she won a lot of states deep into that primary long after barack obama had wrapped up the math and was going to win in terms of pledge delegates. it wasn't quite the same in the sense you never saw clinton got to be a better candidate, got more enthusiasm as the race went on. she never had crowds like sanders has. the sense of slippage that's happening around hillary clinton even though, again, she's almost certain to be the democratic nominee. bernie sanders loves polls that
show her not competing well against donald trump. the only one that likes those polls better than donald trump is bernie sanders. keeps energizing him to the end, strengthens his hand when he gets to the convention this summer. >> coming up, mika's must-read opinion pages plus more from reporters on capitol hill ahead of the big meeting at 9:00. no cameras allowed in that meeting, so it's forced taos imagine what will take place inside that room. >> welcome, fellow republicans. to start with old business brother hibbert will read a report on reference to rename everything after ronald reagan. >> all millard fillmore, mississippi river is mississippi reagan. >> frankenstein is now frankenreagan. >> excellent. >> announcer: brought to you by volkswagen golf gti, part of the award winning golf family.
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do you support the ryan plan to bring the deficit down by $4 trillion. >> i'm very concerned about doing anything that's going to tinker too much with medicare. i protect the senior citizens. senior citizens are protected. they are life blood as far as i'm concerned. i think paul ryan is too far "outfront" with this issue. i think he ought to sit back an relax. >> that was april of 2011. donald trump has, in fact, said for five years now he's not sure you can support paul ryan's
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for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. see car insurance in a whole new light. liberty mutual insurance. >> break some eggs, though, right? >> break eggs. >> reince priebus is going to give an exciting convention. >> donald trump. >> do you have movies? >> we're going to put a program together. it's not put together yet. >> reality show of some kind. >> ultimate reality show. it's the president of the united states. >> that is donald trump campaign adviser paul manafort speaking to chris matthews calling the president the ultimate reality show. time now for the must read op-eds. ron fournier, our friend in the atlantic. he writes, "the presidency is not the ultimate reality show. it's one thing to compare four-day national convention to a television show. it's another to call the presidency reality show, but that's what paul manafort did in
a television show. i'm surprised by manafort's honesty because trump treats the office he seeks as a poll, poll ratings, no substance beyond script. divides between bad guys and good guys, oversimplifies the plot. should an office once occupied by harry truman be filled by a man who thinks he's living out his truman show. joe, what do you think? >> i'm not sure paul manafort is just being glib there. i don't think i would take what paul manafort thinks. i do think donald trump has approached this from the beginning like a reality show. his instincts for what has kept him in prime time for 14 seasons when hardly anybody else in american television has done that. it's actually translating very well to the campaign trail. mike barnicle, i think donald trump's biggest challenge now is
making the turn strategically in the general election but it doesn't look like he's going to do that. he's going to do big rallies, not microtarget, for the do all the things george w. bush, white house in 2004 or barack obama in 2008 or 2012. >> that's the challenge, can he make the transition to become a candidate, a game in the republican primaries. he's now on the big stage, world series, confronting general election audience, the entire country. we're going to find out. if he does not make that transition, it won't be an issue that will be the key to the fall election. it won't even be hillary rodham clinton but donald j. trump. the focus will be on him 24 hours a day and i don't know if anyone can stand that. >> joe, key question if you're advising trump. he does not lose one voter if he does a 10% pivot. not one. they are not going, he softened a tiny, tiny bit on the muslim
ban i'm going with hillary. why won't he do it? >> well, he has started to. he's made the pivot on the minimum wage. this was a guy who actually said -- >> i'm talking about -- >> i know. i'm just saying, i think we're leading up to a lot of pivots. he told mika four months ago before the main primaries began, he started the pivot on minimum wage. he said american workers were paid too much throughout the entire primary process. now he supports a higher minimum wage. that makes sense in a general election. he's done the same thing on taxes. he's moved away from the very detailed tax plan and now talking about higher taxes for the wealthy. something he talked about years ago but didn't talk about on the campaign trail. you are starting to see some movement on the muslim ban. i think the bigger problem, nicolle wallace, has to do with tactics and not strategy.
as you know, i'll say i again, ken melman revolutionized politics when bush campaign did something no one else has done. you run to the right in the primary and go back to the center in the general election. the 2004 bush campaign said, no, i'm not going to do that. we're going to find our voters. we're going to target them, identify them, inspire them, drag them out to the polls and w win. ken started it and obama team took it to extraordinary levels. i don't think you can win a close race in america in 2016 without doing that. donald trump is acting like it's m pixie dust, hate no impact. >> what's amazing, he's making it perfectly clear he won't do that. he's rendered jobs like the ones
i held on the campaigns totally irrelevant. i'm unemployable in republican politics, which is a great thing for everybody involved. what ken mehlman did, take an issue that he governed, appealed to 44% of hispanics, he appealed to a large enough number of married women to shrink the gender gap to prevail. donald trump, not only is he not attracted to or interested in considering deploying any of the tactics, he's not even open to the conceit you have to broaden your appeal with those groups. and like we've been talking about this week, the polls reflect some wisdom in his strategy. i think we have the first national poll tightening showing him in a close contest against hillary clinton. i know from advising politicians that it's much easier to get them to change their ways when things are going badly, when
they have a bad performance than when things are going well. anyone that wants him to change is going to have a hard time in light of this week's polls. >> champing at the bit, "the wall street journal," the ryan/trump summit will be watched for one thing to see if republicans intend to secure the presidency as a party divided or as a reasonably united. a disunified is a course. donald trump and paul ryan should restore economic growth restoring economic legacy is the only thing paul ryan thinks about, the reality that made donald trump the nominee. the differences on trade and immigration matter. but even here both men recognize that horrible growth has made productive thought on either subject virtually impossible. thursday's summit could be the beginning of a useful if not beautiful relationship, john heilemann. >> yes, sure. the thing about that, though,
you get back to not just trade immigration. one of the things ryan made central to his project is trying to get the government to be smaller. entitlement reform is at the core of what ryan wants to do and donald trump doesn't really care about that. i want to go back to the conversation you were having a second ago about tactical thing, data and field and all that stuff. the reason trump is doing this is not because he doesn't want to do those things, it's because he can't do those things. he's trying to make a virtue out of necessity. the obama campaign in 2012, bush campaign in 2004 were incumbent presidents who spent years and tens and hundreds of millions of dollars building a sophisticated data targeting machines, turnout machines, those take a long time to build. they are not simply, you can't snap your finger. donald trump does not have the capacity or the money between now -- or the time between now and november to be able to build that machine. >> even if he did, there's a mind-set of a certain age group also, particularly a guy like that, who i know better than everybody all these youngins.
i agree coming up with sheets saying you can't say this, suburban housewives, he's going i don't care. >> i don't disagree with you. there's a part of trump that says i trust my gut. my gut matters more than anything comes out of the computer. just to be clear, there's just not a way for him to ever be competitive in that way. he could tomorrow decide i'm going to try to replicate what obama did in 2012 and it would not be possible. coming up, we're going to head to capitol hill where nbc team staking out meeting between donald trump and house speaker paul ryan two hours away. live reports from hallie jackson, luke russert. playing for the usual phil?
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an outburst on capitol hill making headlines. earlier this year senate minority leader harry reid called on congressman grayson to step down. grayson repeatedly asked reid if the senator knew his name. yes, alan, reid replied. say my name, grayson insisted more than once. ew. grayson brought out printed out
news article with quote from reid criticizing him over ethics concerned. grayson asked reid why he gave the quote. harry reid replied, because it's true and i want to you lose. reportedly brought in senator's security detail but the meeting eventually moved on. a spokesperson for reid released a statement accusing grayson of running a camen island hedge fund from congressional office and senator took the opportunity to express low opinion of congressman grayson to his face. grayson released his own statement saying in part calling out establishment is not easy and not always polite. should learn i want you to lose is no excuse for a gross smear but the air is cleared. coming up at the top of the hour one of ted cruz's supporters reacts to the decision to hold off releasing taxes. the former first lady of the
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>> politics. i'm never stunned by anything in politics. i was blind-sided because he spoke to me three weeks ago and it was a very nice call, encouraging call. >> this team is your family, michael. have you to protect them from those guys. here is your quarterback, all right. you protect his blindside. when you think of him, you think of me, how you have my back, how
you have his. >> okay. what did you say to him? >> you should get to know your players, burt. he tested 98% in protective instincts. >> welcome to "morning joe." a huge morning for the republican party as donald trump goes to washington. we're here with former communications director for george w. bush nicolle wallace, msnbc contributor and so much more mike barnicle, former adviser to george w. bush and co-creator and executive producer of "the circus" on showtime. we swapped out one circus guy for another. >> keep the circus going. >> heilemann created too much of a circus this morning. >> former -- worked in the ad business, donny deutsch. managing director and editor of bloomberg politics mark halperin. mika has the morning off. joe, big day for the party in washington. >> it really is a big day. the republican party trying to
come together after donald trump all be secured the republican nomination. we've all believed around this table for some time that you feel the title of rem's song, feeling gravity, feeling house of representatives or senate. your party has elected donald trump. he's accumulated more votes than any other republican in primary history, and you start feeling that pull because chances are very good donald trump won in your congressional district. or if you're a senator, he won in your state. so paul ryan is an exception to that rule. ted cruz comfortably won janesville and the surrounding areas in paul ryan's district. mark halperin, for most republicans, they are trying to figure out exactly how to deal with -- if they are talking about musicals, "hamilton," how
do you solve a problem like donald. that's what the gop is trying to figure out. today their leader is having to figure that out. how do they embrace him without looking like they are betraying everything they have stood for for the past 20 years. >> that's their goal talking to senior ryan aides, what they want are two things out of their relationship with trump and at least to make progress today. one, they want unity. they want people in the republican party, in the big tent, that donald trump is spread out. there can be unity. conservatives can feel good about running as part of a trump ticket. the second thing they want is some sense from trump he's got conservative principles. trump says he's a conservative. he's got some positions ryan doesn't view as conservative. can they come together with some principles trump emphasizes that conservatives and party can feel good about, conservative government. that's one where ryan would like to see a house majority that works with president trump eventually to limit the size of
government. >> there's a lot at stake on all sides for today's meeting 9:00 eastern time. there's potentially more on the line for speaker ryan. some saying the 46-year-old house speaker is riding on whether you keep his agenda separate or embrace the presumptive nominee donald trump. the position extends to whether he will one day be a viable candidate for presidency as "new york times" speculates. last night ryan's predecessor former house speaker newt gingrich formally endorsed trump. put out a statement about the importance of uniting behind trump. even some indications of a policy shift in ryan's direction with a trump adviser saying the candidate is open to reductions in entitlement spending, something the candidate has said he won't touch. yesterday ryan said not to expect an immediate resolution on all this. >> can there be merged message
or two separate messages? >> look, we've got a process we're just getting started. the last thing i'm going to do is say what the end of this process is going to be when we're just beginning this process. i really believe if we're going to be successful this fall, we have to unify our party, we have to go forward with a positive message, that americans see we have solutions to their problems. when seven out of ten americans don't like the path this country is on and hillary clinton is promising to keep going down the same path, we have an obligation to merge and unify our common principles to offer this country a choice, a better way forward. that's going to take party unification to do that. we just finished one of the most grueling primaries in modern history. it's going to take some work and that's the kind of work we're dedicated to doing. >> mark, we've been hearing about unity. that seems to be the word and will be the word today. why is that important to the party going forward and where is the unity between the belief systems of paul ryan and donald trump? >> it's important because even when the republican party was fairly unified they lost by a
lot. they have got to be unified and more. these members are between a rock and a trump place. the encouraging thing for the speaker and others is that donald trump has shown a lot of flexibility already on policy. he's the guy moving in the right direction on taxes, entitlement reform. at least he's not being inflexible already. there's seems he's moving in their direction. >> you think paul ryan has this meeting, checks the box, i talked to him, comes out and endorses him. >> i don't think endorses him but will s right direction. he'll hold that out to keep him in the right direction. >> it's the policy issues. >> it's both. they are at odds on policy, on entitlement reform, on trade, on foreign policy, immigration and taxes. >> yes, but i think the core -- not but. >> it's central ideas of the modern republican party. and -- >> listen -- >> kkk he's condemned him and on
the muslim ban and on violence at the rallies he's condemned him. >> that stuff -- by the way, paul ryan can have a political future still saying, you know what, i was not for raising the minimum wage. he can have a political future saying, you know what, we disagree on -- he cannot have a political future saying i agree on the muslim stuff, the women stuff. >> that's policy. >> that's core. more human, humanity. >> tone issues. >> listen, going to nicolle, what you were saying, i've known paul ryan, i'll say it again, since he was 22, 23, the freshman that came in in 1994. we had a group, we called our selves new federalist. we were talking about a smaller government, talking about eliminating four beaurocracies, talking about taking power out of washington and returning it to the states. if you look at what paul ryan has dedicated his entire life
to, that stands in stark opposition to where donald trump stands. you're right. whether it's on immigration, whether it's on trade, whether it's on raising taxes, whether it's on the minimum wage, whether it's on entitlement reform, people like paul ryan and myself have been saying correctly, along with a democrat, if you take the money on medicare and medicaid over the next decade, it consumes every dime that goes into the budget other than defense spending and interest on the debt. now, how can you say, you know what, i met the guy. he was great, really cool. i understand he's won a lot of trophies and knows really cool people, and the last 20, 25 years of my life doesn't really
matter. i was charmed into supporting him. never mind. that's a problem paul ryan has. let's just stop right now being glib about this. this isn't about personality. this is about policies. this would be talking to a preacher that has devoted his life to a church and a faith for 25 years and said, hey, listen, the biggest contributor in your congregation says, the bible is a good book but it's a bunch of fairy tales. either paul ryan believes what he believes and has fought for all his life or he doesn't. it's that simple. i'm not saying he should do one thing or another. this isn't about people's personalities and whether they sniff each other and like each other or not. this is about stuff that matters to the future of our republic, nicolle. >> that's right. i think a lot of what i
understand donald trump to be frustrated with is a lack of respect. that's not what he's getting from paul ryan. i actually think paul ryan is the right person in the right job because he is able to -- he is sort of a modern politician. he appreciates what donald trump has done. i think he can understand and admire the use of social media whereas admittedly some people in our party might be confounded by that and what donald trump has accomplished. i think paul ryan isn't in the lack of respect category, simply it's a bridge too far. i think the policy questions, that's the umbrella under which the stop trump movement has hidden but that's not been the spirit if we're being honest of the stop trump movement. the stop trump movement has been shrouded in disdain and elitism. paul ryan's concerns are completely rooted in policy disagreements. i made this list and thought of one area they might be able to build a bridge to one another and that's around paul's interest in poverty, doing something around poverty. talked about donald trump's flexibility on health care and
entitlements. maybe they can create some sort of third bucket of ideas that solve a problem that paul ryan is deeply interested in and hasn't been able to bring his caucus around on. on the animating policy conversations of the republican ideology in modern times, paul ryan is vastly at odds with donald trump. >> i totally agree with joe's assessment of that, that paul ryan can't just walk away from his life's work at this point. given that standard, how could he ever come around to donald trump. donald trump has his own record over 20, 25 users of not being conservative, not fighting for things paul ryan wants. how could paul ryan come around without compromising issues. >> finding things -- i love your idea, poverty, income inequality, address that. that's something the republican party has to address anyway, trump has to address as a billionaire but a place to go. a movement on trade as well. it's hard -- i'm a former
conservative democrat -- >> trump has basically promised trade wars with mexico. >> that's an issue as a conservative democrat because of trade policies i went across the bridge to become a republican, on trade. those are important issues to republicans. >> what are the risks nicolle, to paul ryan not endorsing donald trump. him coming out of that meeting saying, you know what, it is it is a bridge too far. i can't do it. i won't stand in his way but won't endorse donald trump. >> in the old days there were plenty of relationships between -- i don't know why i'm gesturing for you will historic relationships between members of different parties. i really think the structure around embracing trump should be more similar to the structure of forging relationships across party aisles. some of the most productive things that happen happen across party aisles, bush and kennedy
on education, mccain and kennedy joined forces in congress on a host of issues, immigration. we used to have bipartisan efforts around foreign policy, so i think the whole structure around embracing trump should be more similar to forging an alliance across party lines. >> last month the state of wisconsin gave donald trump one of the major setbacks of his campaign, one of the only ones. it happens to be the home state of speaker ryan. it's also the home state of the other person in the meeting with donald trump rnc chair reince priebus. priebus has taken a noticeable different stance declaring him presumptive nominee after indiana win brushing aside kasich before he dropped out of the race, which the governor did. more than a week later and ryan still holding out. so far priebus has encouraged trump to embrace the party platform. what, if any, pressure is he exerting on ryan is unknown. joining us from capitol hill, nbc news correspondent hallie jackson. hallie, set the scene for us.
what's going on? are people tailgating, selling t-shirts. >> i wish people were tailgating. i could definitely go for a hot dog, maybe a beer. when you look, it's quiet, particularly rnc over the next hour or so as people start to arrive. you make an excellent point about the relationship between reince priebus and paul ryan. that is going to be key to what we see this morning. remember, ryan and priebus have known each other for years because of that wisconsin connection. the role is to be an intermediate area, thary intermediatary. this shuttled diplomacy, making calls to donald trump, paul ryan, making sure there could be negotiations worked out how this meeting will go. ryan is close to priebus, priebus is also close to trump. i'm told they have grown closer, trump seeing priebus as a kind of honest broker, somebody he can trust in this kind of role and this kind of relationship. so priebus will play that part as kind of the truce negotiator
at that meeting, the first meeting that's happening, the one with just trump and priebus and ryan. as for what you may see coming out of it, guys, don't expect to see ryan come out with an endorsement for trump. they will likely not get into a checklist of different policies where they might disagree or where they might agree. today is broadly about talking about those conservative principles and talking really the buzzword of the day, which is unity. ryan wants to hear something from trump about how he plans to bring the party together. what you've seen from trump over these last 24 hours has been a bit more of a conciliatory tone to sort of smooth the path for this morning's meetings. >> hallie, mark has a question for you. >> hi, hallie. it's my observation over a fairly tumultuous number of years reince priebus navigating issues, what is the sense of reince priebus on capitol hill. >> solid. people look at him as somebody who could be a negotiator,
understands politic, somebody able to work behind the sends, manage and massage relationships. he's obviously the longest serving chair of the rnc for a reason. >> hallie jackson on capitol hill. thanks. donald trump faced pressure on all sides yesterday to release income tax returns. if he doesn't, he would be the first major nominee since 1976 not to do so. trump told "associated press" he does not expect to release them until november but will release them after irs finishes an ongoing audit. i told ap my taxes are under routine audit and will release after complete not after election. >> you said you don't intend to release your tax returns. >> no, i didn't say that. i said i'm being audited. >> what about returns that haven't been audited. >> there's a link. >> how far back are you audited. >> long enough that it would matter. there's a link between that and other things. as soon as the audit is
finished, i would love to -- it's a relatively simple audit. i'll tell you what's unfair, every year for many years i've been audited. i have friends that are very rich that never get audited. i get audited every single year. i think it's unfair. hopefully before the election i will release. you learn very little from tax return. i've released my financials. my financials show tremendous numbers, very little debt. >> what about his taxes? because when you run for president, especially when you become the nominee, that is kind of expected. my husband and i have released 33 years of tax returns. we got eight years on our website right now. so you've got to ask yourself, why doesn't he want to release them. yeah, well, we're going to find out. >> so the last republican presidential nominee mitt romney also tweeted, quote, mr. trump, tear down that tax wall and
wrote in a lengthy facebook post, "it is disqualifying for a modern day presidential nominee to refuse to release tax returns to the voters." he went on, "there's only one logical explanation for mr. trump's refusal to release his returns. there is a bombshell in them. given mr. trump's equanimity with other flaws, we can only assume it's a bombshell of unusual size." is he actually worth what he says he's worth? does he give to charity the way he says he gives to charity? the list goes on and on. he could release these despite the audit. does this matter to voters, that's the question. >> mitt romney, the media, hillary clinton wants them released. i like the thought of a book title, "a bombshell of an unusual size." it's something mitt romney has seized on. voters are not obsessed by this. it could be part of putting donald trump on the offensive. donald trump understands if you hold something valuable, you
don't give it away. right now trump knows what's in the returns and no one else does. is he not releasing them because there's something that is embarrassing, we won't learn much about what his wealth is, is he holding them to never release them because there's something bad in them. does he know this is a card he can play, put them out, spin it however he wants, turns out to be a good thing because people chasing on a wild goose chase something that won't have pay dirt. >> it's our obligation to get those tax returns and explain those tax returns to the voting public. >> 100%. not just a summary of the returns, first page, with red t redactio redactions. this is not like hillary clinton speeches, which is a new thing she points out, that people would like to see. every nominee puts out returns, let's people go through them. there's all sorts of reasons. this is not voyeuristic. we have to keep asking. i've asked several times, he
gives roughly the same answer. he's going to have to put out the returns. we should demand full returns. >> i think it's disqualifying. you have one job as a citizen in this country, that is to pay taxes. if you want the highest office in the country, running a populist campaign, you need to show how and why you pay taxes. if you don't, i don't think you have the right to be commander in chief. >> totally disagree with you. i think his entire candidacy is about not doing things -- >> i'm not saying for political -- you're not hearing what you're saying. that disqualifies you. you think you are above everybody else in this country and you want the highest elected office and you don't think you need to show people how and why you pay taxes which is the fundamental principle, you should -- >> donnie, what is that the deutsche test in the irs is the one who determines whether he pays his taxes every year or not. he's not in jail. he obviously pays his taxes. i can't believe you're getting this ruffled up about this?
why has this become the gold standard for donny deutsch on whether somebody is qualified to be president of the united states or not. if he hasn't paid his taxes, the irs will find out and throw him in jail. >> it's how he pays his taxes. by the way, if he's not giving money to charity we need to know that. americans don't care if he's paying 12% in taxes, because if those are the laws, those are the laws. i can't vote for a person who says i'm above you. i do not have to open up in terms of how i serve as a citizen in this country. i love donned, he's a trump. >> ann richards in 1990, the whole issue coming down to clayton williams not releasing tacks. right at the end he broke. turns out the problem was he didn't pay any taxes. he had so many deductions he didn't pay taxes. >> that's a problem. >> he would find a way to turn it into an asset. i think this is another media narrative. i don't think there's any voters
you find out there that think this is a problem for him. >> mark halperin before we let you go, what's different at the end of the day today than it is after the meeting on capitol hill. >> i think they have got to get to know each other personally. i remember when bill clinton came to washington after he became democratic nominee in 1982, he already had personal ties. trump has been running against washington, republicans. today he'll signal i'm not going to run against republicans as much as i'll run washington. paul ryan would like washington to change as fundamentally as donald trump will. that's the area of common ground and the buzzword of the day, unity. >> mark halperin, thanks so much. still ahead on "morning joe," bush will not support donald trump for president. we'll speak live with former first lady laura bush. thousands turn out to see bernie sanders. is his california strategy in jeopardy after he loses his state director there? james carville joins us live to talk about the state of the race. you're watching "morning joe."
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that we are better than the the campaign that the presumptive nominee for the republican party is running. you know, the choice in this campaign literally could not be clearer. >> it's hillary clinton yesterday in new jersey. bring in a guy who usually when he talks could not be any clearer, famed political strategist james carville, also clinton supporter. james, this bernie sanders phenomenon is pretty crazy. you usually don't see, even when it looks like a guy is mathematically eliminated, crowds getting bigger, more money pouring in, more energy in the campaign, a push. it's a crazy phenomenon, we've been talking about trump in all
the networks and newspapers, what bernie has done in the democratic party is nothing short of astounding. what's happening? how does he continue to draw those crowds and how does he bring it in for a landing so the democratic party isn't split in july. >> he raised a lot of money, gets large crowds. there's one difference between he and trump and it's a pretty big difference is, trump is the nominee and he's not going to be the nominee. i think the clinton campaign are quite aware of that, they are going to have to bring him in the fold, just like senator clinton had to come into the fold in 2008 with president obama. the democratic party is decided by the 3 million votes they want mrs. clinton to be the nominee. bernie is a phenomenon, they are young, energetic, vote irs in november.
every vote bernie sanders gets in the spring here is somebody you want to be voting for you in november. it's going to take some skill and negotiation and some political dexterity to bring them in the fold. >> james, you're a big supporter of hillary clinton but not advising her currently as far as i know on any regular basis. if you were, two questions, how important is it for them to win the california primary? how much effort would you put into that? two, what would you do after that, given she's doing to be the democratic nominee, what would you do after that to try to make peace with sanders on her side. >> first of all, of course you win the california primary. it's the biggest state. i'll be very clear, it's hard to lose an election. you say you lose in west virginia, it's hard. you hate to lose. >> would you spend millions of dollars to win california, money you could otherwise spend against trump. >> that's a hard question for me because i don't know the state of their financials now. it's certainly something you'd be better off doing.
i think they need to let sanders people, i think you've got to let this play out a little bit, you know. he -- it's not an equal negotiating position. bernie sanders does not need hillary clinton, because he's not going to be the nominee. hillary clinton needs bernie sanders because she's going to be the nominee. you have to understand walking into that negotiation you're not in an equal position. now, this has happened before. it happened in 2008 in our party. i don't think it's going to be an overly huge problem but it's going to be something that's going to have to be dealt with and he's going to have to retain some similar to that acknowledgement for what he's accomplished in this. i don't think there's any doubt about it. >> as soon as i got my first job in the campaign i went and watch war room, you innovated beyond anything conceived in campaign strategy. trump that innovated beyond anything conceived in campaign
strategy. how does hillary clinton, a traditional politician, launch an asymmetrical defense against what trump is throwing at her also while fending off what bernie sanders is throwing at her? >> first of all, she is going to be the nominee. she's going to be the nominee, she's got substantially more votes. i'm not denying bernie sanders -- i think her challenge, and i made it pretty clear, in a country that wants change, you cannot be any more change than donald trump is. if you say i want change in this country and you look at trump, one thing you've got to say, he's different. >> different. >>ening that her challenge is going to be how change, how are you going to bring that about. you can't outchange trump but i don't think you need to do that. >> status quo either. >> right. you can't be status quo. one thing you don't want to be hooked with is that. >> okay. it's the middle of september. change is the essential item on
the change for most americans. looking for hope, looking for the future. donald trump has tried to eviscerate clintons personally, gone after the president of the united states. you have a candidate running against donald trump, secretary clinton, unfortunately for her, and it's cosmetics only, a lot of men in this country look at her, hear her, and all they can think of is someone telling them get back into class, home run is over. what do you do? how do you run that campaign? >> first of all, i think there is a problem that her negatives are higher than people would like. acknowledge that. i think that you've got to have a good summer. i think the convention, i think they have some things they can accomplish at the convention. i think there's a lot of things out there they can say and weave a better narrative. look, they have been running against a guy, bernie sanders, you know, promised $18 trillion and $33 trillion in new
spending. he doesn't get the same scrutiny, nor should he, because he's not going to be the nominee. she's got -- i think her narrative has to really get better. she's got to be more change. her whole life has been about changing things. in some ways, she's been almost a pioneer in her career. they have to tell that story better. you're right. they do have a problem. they do have a problem. i think that's -- but they know they do. i really expect them to be addressing that during the the course of the campaign. it's not like trump doesn't have problems. >> yeah. yeah. all right. james carville, thank you so much as always. love having you on. >> you bet. appreciate it. >> ted cruz, will congressman king and others like him line up behind donald trump. well, the congressman is going to join us live ahead of donald trump's trip to capitol hill. also my good friend matt salmon is going to be here as well to answer that same question. you're watching "morning joe."
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e.t. phone home. when you find something you love, you can never get enough of it. change the way you experience tv with xfinity x1. >> i'm going to support the nominee. i predict most people in my position or people will rally around the republican nominee. i fully expect paul ryan will eventually support donald trump
publicly. i hope that happens, because we do have to be unified. >> that was former vice president dan quayle. just moments ago on the "today" show saying he's going to get behind donald trump. co-chair of ted cruz's presidential campaign, steve king from iowa. talk about the decision you're going to make, moving from being one of ted cruz's biggest advocates and one of the biggest reasons he won the state of iowa to now getting behind donald trump. can you do that? >> well, we have to see how this goes. what i've said is what we need to support the nominee produced by the rules. of course that won't happen until about july 27th in cleveland. in that middle period of time, we'd like to see -- i'd like to see our party heal together. i'd like to see this chasm start to bring back together. and it's going to take donald trump to do that. i'd say a good meeting today
with paul ryan, a good number of policies that need to be ironed out. hopefully move closer to that. the platform is conservative. i think donald trump needs to speak especially to moral conservatives, social conservatives, pro-life side, constitutionali constitutionalists, driven so much within our party. he hasn't assured me yet he believes in those things deeply enough to drive them as president. >> so steve, how do you go back to your constitt wepts, we work together, know each other, similar on a lot of issues, i don't know if i was in congress representing northwest florida how i could go back and say, yeah, i'm going to endorse a guy who supports planned parenthood, a guy who isn't a constitutionalist, increase in size and scope of the federal government's authority. again, he won the nomination. i'm just asking you personally how do you synthesize your views with donald trump's views to
meet in the middle? that's a real challenge for donald trump and paul ryan and congressmen like you. how do you do it? >> joe, i think right now one of the statements donald trump made, remember, it's the republican party not the republican party. that sends a message to lion's share of conservatives that are the party. i'd like to see him go to new orleans where mitt romney stood and made the speech four years ago, if i remember the location correctly, and gave a speech about moral values, core convictionses, the constitution. that went a long ways to bring conservatives closer to mitt romney. there were still 5 to 8 million that stayed home or romney would be there running for re-election. he needs to do that. i'm saying again to donald trump, reach out to the conservatives. start that process. recognize you're not going to be elected president without it. if there were 5 to 8 million that didn't come to the polls to vote for romney, there must be two to three times that many that need to be brought into the fold if we're going to prevent
hillary clinton from maepg appointments to supreme court and federal bench in its entirety. >> congressman, this is mark mckinnon, senator cruz ran on the theory of the case, they haven't been conservative enough, what does it say ted cruz ran on that message and lost? >> the difference was donald trump said i'm going to go in there and change everything. i said maybe the people that were so strongly behind trump, they said things are so bad we're happy to turn the bull into the china shop. if some of the dishes aren't broken when it's over, that's fine. we'll pick them up and wash them off and build a country behind that. ted cruz said, wait a minute, we have pillars of american -- we need to restore them, build the country back on constitutional principles and exceptionalism with the tools we have. i don't know the american public has been well enough educated about history, core values of america's exceptionalism to get
there. i think both marco rubio spoke well to american exceptionalism, ted cruz spoke best to the principles that restore this country. i think people were more fed up than they were ready to reconstruct on the foundation that america has been built. >> congressman, john heilemann here, kind of talking about the last answer earlier. when trump said it's not the conservative party, the republican party, how is it that he's wrong? in the sense ted cruz did embody principles of conservatism in a way and yet he got pretty thoroughly whipped by donald trump as did everybody who ran against donald trump, why is he wrong when he makes that assertion about the nature of the party. >> i look the a some of these things, trump has conservative examples. his immigration policy for the most part is conservative. it may not agree with the speaker of the house but it does agree with the majority votes of the house of representatives who have turned down and defunded every attempt by the president to reach outside the
constitution and open our borders and erode our immigration laws. i would say i'll give him a conservative position on that. them once we go down the line, i don't hear him speak about the constitutional issues. i don't hear him speak about balancing the budget. these are conservative principles. so i think some has to be reconciled. he's reached out to a populist side of this. he's said i'm going to protect your entitlements. he's not talked about getting to a balanced budget. those two things will get us to -- we're going to get to an economic place where the depth for every baby born in america will increase again at $60,000 today. if you're born today, that's your share of the national debt f you're going to be a producer you might call it 120 because a lot of people might not be payable down national debt. he's created this dichotomy, pulled some things in that are conservative, brought other things in that are i'll say populist. not really reflective of the party.
by the way, the platform is going to reflect conservative republicans and that's something we have to defend in cleveland. that's why we call for cruz delegates to make sure they show up at their state convention, at the national convention, a platform to protect and rules to write for the next convention. so they need to reflect conservative values that have built the party over the last three generations. >> congressman, very simple, the republican party needs to get this. somebody can be conservative in nature, that doesn't mean they line up issue by issue. people don't join parties anymore. you have to understand that. somebody can be conservative and say, you know what, i am conservative, fiscal conservative, fiscal immigration but i do believe in a higher minimum wage tax. the republican party will never win another election unless they can recognize individuals, people who grow up with this now basically do not line up with a party on a platform. they are individual issues and the republican party needs to understand this. if they don't, they won't win another election.
>> that doesn't mean we don't believe in every plank in the platform but the will the delegates, the will of the people that elected them. minimum wage, federal government should not be telling employers what to pay their employees and we need a tighter labor supply. i think that's something donald trump has brought forward, a tighter labor supply and let people wake up in a country where oopen up millions of jobs for americans, drive wages up and benefits up and that means our welfare can go down. today there's 70 different means tested federal welfare programs and that's not being addressed very well by either side. >> congressman steve king, you knew this was going to be a big day when you woke up this morning. you knew you were going to be on "morning joe." you had no idea, though, the upper oohs side's resident multimillionaire donny deutsch was going to lecture you on how to play politics in iowa. >> sharing the love. that's all i'm doing here.
>> that's called upper east side silk stocking love. thank you so much, steve. always great to see you. say hi to friends in western iowa. >> will do. >> coming up next hour, we'll be talking to good friend congressman matt salmon and some of the same big issues facing republican party and what he's going to do when it comes to endorsing donald trump. also up next we've got former first lady laura bush and her daughter jenna bush hager joining us live. it's like a bush reunion. you're watching "morning joe" straight ahead.
and so... my new packing robot will make jet warehouses even more efficient - and save shoppers money. genius! oh no... charlene! ...no, no. shh... at jet.com, we're always looking for money saving innovations. is caringing because covering heals faster. for a bandage that moves with you and stays on all day, cover with a band-aid brand flexible fabric adhesive bandage. hello, i'm laura bush. i'm in beautiful yosemite national park. i'm looking forward to a beautiful day of hiking with my girlfriend. i've hiked every year with
childhood friends from midland tech texas. we've hiked nearly every one of the big parks. this is our second visit to yosemite. we've collected national parks and loved it. >> that is former first lady laura bush in promotion for find your park campaign. with us now "new york times" best selling authors, former first lady laura bush and her daughter nbc's own jenna bush hager. their new children's book is "our great big backyard." this is like a family reunion on set. mark mckinnon. we, of course.
>> so lalaura, tell us about th book and why you wrote it? >> jenna and i wanted to do another children's book. this year the centennial park service was the perfect time to do a book about great big backyard and all the wonderful parks we have in the united states. of course our little protagonist tied to video screens of various types. her mother wants her to look up. her mother plans this great american road trip. >> that's great. jen jenna. >> she does the work. >> i wrote it in maternity leave, thought about my fondest memories with my dad and my mom and they were spent outdoors. geez, now all we're doing instead of looking out the windows is looking down at our phones. i don't want a world where our kids don't get to get outside and see the beauty of nature.
wrote it, working with former librarian and first lady and your mother, the boss lady, are you kidding? >> that's intimidating. >> don't ever end your sentence with a preparation. >> imagine writing speeches for your dad with her watchful eye. i remember worrying that we were imposing on you when you took these vacations every year during president bush's presidency, but this is something you've done well before your life became a public -- >> that's right. very first trip with childhood friends floating down grand canyon, hiking down the south rim. >> that's a hard hike. >> it's 10 miles. up. but switchback, thank goodness. then we one of those years, during the time we loved at the white house, we invited our daughters to join us. >> i remember that. >> they joined us on that trip. >> we shared tent, gave up white house beds for a tent.
we were invited once to never invited again. i'm not sure what we did, crowded the tent too much. >> let's talk more about family trips when you and your sister were kids and mom and dad taking you to national parks. let's have some of this. >> when we were little, my fondest memories with my dad in particular where we would go to this little fishing cabin in east texas. i remember when we said i could swim in the lake, so fun. there were alligators. all we could do was play outside and use imagination. >> is this your dad driving station wagon like chevy chase. >> minivan. he actually drove one of those minivans with wood panel. it was baby blue. if you look in the book, that's where we got the inspiration. >> it's so great you're doing this, because our national parks are such a treasure but so few people actually go. then i saw another statistic, so amazing. of the people who do go to the parks, 99% of them don't go even
a mile past the parking lot. >> most people drive through, like they drive by the grand canyon and look down at it. it's difficult. it's difficult to do the river trip and hike out. >> the point is we want to make sure that we support these places. how lucky are we that the people who came before us that put it aside and they were beautiful. what if there was a strip mall in the grand canyon. no thank you. we need to make sure we support national park foundation, happy to be joining with them. proceeds from the book go to the national park foundation and also get there. the whole point is, if you can't get to a national park, enjoy nature in your own backyard. >> that's right. >> one of your gifts, embracing and shining a lot on something that has nothing to do with politics. i got to see jeb bush on monday, he looks unbelievable. he looks relieved and happy. this election is not happening without your intimate knowledge of this climate.
how happy are you to not be involved? >> very happy. >> is it surreal and watch it all and be central to nation's conversation so long >> not really. not at all. when we left the white house, george determined he was not going to opine or try to inject his opinions or comment on the president, make remarks about the president. it's not different from how we've been for the last 7 1/2 years. >> which is one of the reasons i'm so proud of my parents. they served their country nrd are still involved in policy but they're not criticizing people because they know how hard the job is. and if we had more -- of course i get -- my mom is like stop kicking me under the table but more politicians who are supporting each other. >> regardless of party. >> and just, you know, working on policy. but not injecting -- >> like this. protecting things we all agree on. >> you know how hard if is.
>> i know it's hard because i watched my parents do it for eight years. >> did you have a sense of relief when it was over? >> jenna and barbara maybe. >> are you -- do you feel some common bond with ivanka trump is going through a tough campaign experience. she's in the limelight. do you feel, is there a bond among children of politicians? >> of course. i know ivanka and chelsea. i know them both. they're lovely girls. people always say it's this psycho babble to use terms my dad loves. what's your advice for them? they don't need advice. people love their parents, and when i have parents like mine and the obama girls who have parents who have supported them and put them as their first priority and shown them unconditional love, how can you not support that? >> that's right. >> for sure. >> thank you. >> thanks. "our great big backyard."
remember. >> all right. thank you guys. laura bush and jenna bush hager for being with us. i want to second what you said. it's an incredible example what president george h.w. bush and george w. bush did after they left the white house. they kept america first. they were never petty. they were always there to support those who followed them. even after they were savaged during the campaign. they showed nothing but class and they're a great example to all of us about how washington should work. thank you guys so much for being with us. it's a great honor. >> thanks so much. >> the book is called "our great big backyard." make sure you get it. if you love america, you will. if you want to end up like mike barnacle, don't. a proposal for a temporary ban on muslims entering the united states was, quote, just a suggestion. he's looking for a way out as he
pivots to the general election and he may get it in the form of rudy giuliani. also trump and paul ryan's meeting ahead this morning. "morning joe" back in a minute. trolling for a gig with braindrone? can't blame you. it's a drone you control wi your brain, which controls your thumbs, which control this joystick. no, i'm actually oveat the ge booth. we're creating the operating system for industry. it's called predix. it's gonna change the way the world works. ok, i'm telling my brain to tell the drone to get you a copy of my resume. umm, maybe keep your hands on the controller. look out!! ohhhhhhhhhh... you know what, i'm just gonna email it to you. yeah that's probably safer. ok, cool. it was all pencil and paper. started out,
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i will take an exception today. this is not conservatism. i have a special role as chair of the republican convention. i stay neutral and support the nominee. >> everything that's you don't want is in that budget. and i say where was paul ryan? >> if he becomes the nominee of the party, will you support him? >> yes, i will. i'll support whoever our nominee is. >> remember the wheelchair being pushed over the cliff when you had ryan chosen as your vice president. that was the end of that campaign when they chose ryan. >> i'm talking about david duke and the ku klux klan. >> if i person wants to be the nominee of the republican party there can be no evasion and no games. >> paul ryan, i don't know him well but i'm sure i'm going to get along with him. >> you just laugh out loud. sometimes reality is stranger than fiction. i'm a good nature guy. i get along with everyone. >> i don't think you can say we
don't get it automatically. i think you'd have riots. >> to even address or hint to violence is unacceptable. >> how do you like paul ryan? how do you like him? you like him? >> now you have a presumptive nominee, donald trump. will you support him? >> i'm just not ready to do it at this point. >> i didn't get paul ryan. i don't know what's happened. >> good morning and welcome back. what a day it's going to be. a big day on capitol hill. and to talk about paul ryan and donald trump getting together and trying to become friends, we have former communication director for president george w. bush, nicolle wallace, legendary columnist mike barnacle. also the managing editor of bloomberg politics, john heilemann, donny deutsch and former adviser to president george w. bush and co-creator of the circus on showtime, mark
mckenna. mika, of course, in the south of france. the next few hours could be pivotal for the future of my republican party. leaders in congress getting together with the party's presumptive nominee donald j. trump. they'll cy ssee if they can ham out their differences and forge a path forward. paul ryan declined yesterday to specify exactly what he wants to address but said he welcomed the opportunity to spend some time with donald trump. >> i don't really know him. i met him once in person in 2012. we had a very good conversation in march on the phone. we just need to get to know each other and we as a leadership team are enjoying the fact we have a chance to meet with him. i'd rather have a conversation in person than through the media, no offense. >> john heilemann, the meeting is going to be an hour from now. what can you tell us from your reporting we should expect to come out of that meeting?
>> both sides would like for this meeting to go well. nobody has a stake in this thing turning into some kind of a contentious -- have this thing blow up in some way. they both are very proud men and have some reason to want the other one to come to them. so the question i think is going to be, do they try to -- is there effort to try to make this a human connection where they, as paul ryan says, they get to know each other. steer clear of the areas where they are most in disagreement on issues like immigration, like free trade. do they steer clear of all of that and try to be able to walk out of the room not exactly arm in arm but at least side by side or does something go terribly wrong and donald trump is a -- obviously a hugely accomplished man but slightly volatile and he has a sense that this now should be his republican party. paul ryan feels this has been his republican party. so the human dynamics will be
the most interesting thing to watch. i don't think they'll come out of this and say, hey, we're all on the same side now. we love each other and everything is great. but you watch whether they can walk out of this and feel as though some progress, some incremental progress has been made towards the ultimate goal of unity. that's going to be the real question today. >> nicolle wallace, what's at stake for donald trump? what's at stake for paul ryan and who has the most to lose today? >> i think the party at large has the most to lose. i think the goal should be, free to be you and me. the list of differences is what will drive and shape the narrative. i made a list two hours ago. on policy they disagree on entitlements, trade, immigration, taxes. on the bucket of issues ryan is trying to lead the party in a different direction and make the party associate itself with more compassionate policies around buckets of issues like poverty and immigration reform, all of
trump's tonal issues have actually brought a rebuke from trump on this slow response to the kkk endorsement. some of the comments about women, question of violence at his rallies. paul ryan was one of the first to come out and express concerns. they have two buckets of challenges that's will always define the media narrative around their relationship but they have the potential. each man is important enough and has enough stature to give the other space. in the room, i've likened it to trying to build a structure around two leaders from two different parties or even two leaders within a party who have diametrically opposed views around a central issue. john mccain had very different opinions on campaign finance reform and they were able to work together on foreign policy. you have to look historically at people either in two different parties or two equally important leaders within a party with just very different policy positions.
>> nicolle mentioned the media narrative and we will because it's who we are. we'll look for winners and losers today. could it well be there are no winners or losers because you have two guys with different constituencies. paul ryan with the house constituency. trump with his own constituency and the volatility of trump the way it plays out -- >> these guys are both really good at managing the media. you never have a meeting where they come out and say that sucked. it wasn't worth it. they'll come out and say we made progress. they'll find some places of common ground and say we had a good conversation. we're going to keep it going. i think that's the worst outcome. >> i also said last week that paul ryan is very different than every other member of the republican establishment. he's not seen as yesterday or as -- he's not seen as old news. he is seen as present and future and he's very well liked and well respected across the board. donald trump, even if they do
not kumbaya, cannot be calling him liar ryan. it's going to continue in a civil way even if there's obviously still and will be -- >> all right. we have reporters spread out all over capitol hill. it's like a war zone up there. very dramatic. let's go first to peter alexander, our seasoned political/war correspondent. peter, you didn't bring your helmet. this could be a very rough day with trump and ryan going like 15 rounds. what can you tell us? >> we'll talk about this -- talk about a war here. if this party is at war right now there's always a cease-fire, an armistice. it doesn't always hold. this as paul ryan and his team would describe this as the first real step. they'll not come out and say that was a waste of time. this will be a process, i think. what's most striking is the fact so many around the hill, a lot
of people in the republican conference, had this sense they had almost 67 more days until the convention before they'd have to come to terms with which side they fell as far as the divisions within this party. there's the sometimes trump wing, the never trump wing and the always trump wing. there's always that blurry area in the middle where a lot of people are trying to make up their mind. many appreciative that paul ryan is giving them a little window. over the last 24 hours we've seen donald trump and you know him personally. i've had conversations with him privately. he can be charming in private. paul ryan who has really only had one face-to-face meeting with him will have the opportunity to make more of a personal connection. a better sense of who donald trump is as an individual, perhaps less than he is as a public performer. >> all right. peter alexander outside the courthouse, thanks for that report. let's go to hallie jackson.
you're covering reince priebus' part in this. he's going to be the other person in that room. where is his relationship with donald trump right now? it started out rough, as we all know. have they -- >> right. >> have they gotten to a place where donald trump sees reince priebus as an honest broker? >> i'm told that's where the relationship has come along to over the months and weeks trump has been in this race that that is where they are at this point. trump doesn't necessarily trust priebus as part of the inner circle but he can be somebody that is a negotiator between speaker ryan and donald trump. we saw one of the top aides to priebus walk in here. we're behind the scenes. you talk about the intensity of the media coverage. see all the cameras. across the street you have folks looking like people coming to the capitol for business gawking at all of this given that it's a trump spectacle. a lot of people and cars and
security. a lot of attention here at the rnc. we expect that meeting to begin in a bit. you'll see trump, ryan and priebus head up to the fourth floor, talk privately and then go across the hall to a private hall where the others will come in. then he'll have a sdus discussion with senator mitch mcconnell. we don't know if we'll hear from donald trump later today. he does hold these impromptu press moments. we expect to hear from speaker ryan and what he says will be key. it will be a key signal to how the relationship is developing here. i think i heard john heilemann say the two of them are not going to come out hugging on these steps. i think he's right. you'll see cautious optimism from all the parties involved moving forward unless something -- there's some kind of curveball inside the rnc in about an hour from now.
>> all right, hallie, thank you so much. let's go back to the table. john heilemann, we have explained all the reasons why paul ryan on policy issues can't really comfortably side next to donald trump. but politics being politics and washington as it is, is there really any scenario where the republican speaker of the house in the end doesn't endorse the republican nominee for president who is running against hillary clinton? >> i think, joe, i think, of course, there's a scenario. it's a scenario where donald trump decides to -- becomes irritated. annoyed. goes off on paul ryan. you can imagine that happening because those thunings have happened with donald trump. to the extent that ryan would feel too personally affronted to support him. i yeoh can imagine that scenario. it's not the most likely outcome
and for this reason. i think paul ryan obviously wants to protect his own political future. he also wants to be able to protect his house members running for re-election. those are important constituencies. if he doesn't ultimately end up with donald trump he'll effectively be the highest ranking republican in the country and the leader of an anti-trump brigade. that he would be effectively the -- leading a rump faction of the republican party against its own nominee. i can't imagine a scenario in which that's what paul ryan wants or that's in paul ryan's long-term political interest. >> isn't this a win-win for trump? if i'm donald trump walking into that meeting. if he's conciliatory and acting presidential. on the other hand, that's donald trump. he's not giving in to the establishment. he's winning this no matter what. >> i think it is a win-win for donald trump. it's not a win-win for paul ryan. paul ryan loses whichever way he
goes. if he doesn't support donald trump, then he's abandoning a lot of members. there will be division inside the republican party. and he'll have the day-to-day responsibilities of managing a house where he's leaving some of his members hanging out to dry politically. if he endorses trump, then he betrays decades of principles, conservative principles, and he's supporting a man who says the republican party in effect is not the conservative party. so it's going to be a tough call for him. donald trump if he gets paul ryan's endorsement, that's a win because he's got the entire republican establishment capitulating to him. if paul ryan doesn't endorse him, he can beat up the republican establishment in washington, d.c., between now and november. so right now there's no doubt donald trump is holding the stronger cards. paul ryan just has to figure out what the least bad solution is. and we're going to continue to follow up on today's big
meeting. now less than an hour away. steve kornacki will be with us next at the table. of course, more from our battalion of reporters across capitol hill. kelly o'donnell, katy tur and luke russert will take us inside the room where it's all going to happen. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. (man) ah i forgot to record that show. (woman) now we have to wait forever to see it. (jon bon jovi) with directv, you don't. ♪ you see, we've got the power to turn back time. ♪ ♪ that show you missed, let's just go back and find. ♪ ♪ and let's go back and choose spicy instead of mild. ♪ ♪ and maybe reconsider having that second child. ♪ ♪ see, that's the power to turn back time. ♪ (vo) get the ultimate all included bundle. call 1-800-directv. prge! a manufacturer. well that's why i dug this out for you. it's your grandpappy's hammer and he would have wanted you to have it.
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>> that was elizabeth warren. yesterday she and donald trump were engaged in round two between the presumptive republican nominee and senator warren. it heated up yesterday afternoon. trump tweeted out goofy elizabeth warren has been one of the least effective senators in the entire u.s. senate. she's done nothing. you follow that up with goofy elizabeth warren didn't have the guts to run for president. her phony native american stops that cold. senator warren counterpunched tweeting out, we get it, donald trump. when a woman stands up to you, you're going to call her a basket case, hormonal, ugly. she then claimed that trump, quote, raked in millions scamming opportunities with trump yesterday and senator warren finished with this. your policies are dangerous. your words reckless. your record is embarrassing. and your free ride is over. trump, however, went toe-to-toe with warren and tweeted back, goofy elizabeth warren is now using the woman's card like her
friend crooked hillary. see her dumb tweet when a woman stands up to you. and isn't it funny when a failed senator like goofy elizabeth warren can spend a whole day tweeting about trump and gets nothing done in senate. >> i agree with his point. he's taking to her like he talked to ted cruz. i think she makes a mistake when she says a woman can't stand up to you? >> i could watch that all day long. >> i have a bit that apparently it's been reported anecdotally that during the meeting that vice president biden had with senator warren several months ago that vice president biden indicated he wanted elizabeth warren as his running mate if he chose to run. this is where we are. why would donald trump, i ask you as representative of the republican party, both of you, why would he be tweeting elizabeth warren -- >> he was talking about how
trump is changing the rules. one of those rules and one thing james did effectivelies in campaigns is he'd become the heat shield. attack me, not my candidate. she's taking the heat. the traditional thing would be not to attack the surrogate but donald trump is attacking the surrogates. >> i don't think warren positions herself as a hillary clinton surrogate. trump is just capable of asymmetrical warfare. he may be the republican standard bearer and shoot his twitter bullets at everybody. >> she is like -- she's the new nancy pelosi. the right hates elizabeth warren and donald trump in a cost-free way -- >> and vice versa. >> she benefits from it, too. the cheap free way for trump to make people on the right happy because they all enjoy -- >> like watching bill maher and ann coulter debate. >> this is a fight they both
love. welcome adversaries. >> i know you're on the edge of your seats out there. less than an hour -- >> do we have a countdown clock? the trump/ryan meeting on capitol hill is less than an hour away. we'll continue our morning imagination of what will actually happen in that room. >> we can work together. why be enemies? because we're different? is that why? think of the things we could do. think how strong we would be. earth and mars together.
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paul ryan, i don't know what happened. i don't know. and he the other day just did a big -- i didn't get paul ryan. i don't know what happened. >> and you know, he called me three weeks ago. we couldn't have had a nicer conversation. thank you very much, donald. it's great and we'll work together. everything is fine. and then all of a sudden, he wants to be cute. >> i've gotten tremendous endorsements. i didn't get it from ryan, though. that's a hard one. the meeting tomorrow, can
there be merged messages or can there be -- is there a possibility of two messages. the congressional gop message and nominee's message. >> we've got a process we're just getting started. the last thing i'm going to do is say what the end of this process will be when we're just beginning this process. >> welcome back to" morning joe." let's bring in msnbc anchor and political correspondent and blue sweater aware steve kornacki. also the author and columnist for the new york daily news and the author of my son's favorite book. now an msnbc contributor, mike lubika. steve kornacki, the question a lot of people are asking, whose party is it? you've been breaking down the numbers all year. whose republican party is it? >> a couple ever things jump out at you. what is -- you look at the sheer number of votes. the sheer number of votes donald trump's won in the primary. he's setting records there. the counter to that you hear from republicans is they say
he's gotten a lot of votes but hasn't gotten 50%. doesn't have a majority of this party when you add all the votes from the primaries and caucuses together. they have a point there if you add them all together. trump is just over 40%. but the thing to keep in mind if you look back to mccain and romney, when they clinched, romney was basically exactly where donald trump is right now. mccain even a notch lower, just under 40% when he clinched the nomination. they rolled up big numbers when they had no opposition. romney was able to get over 50. trump will be able to get over 50 by the time this whole process is over. it's no different on that front. there's a new poll out just this week among republicans looking at the question of paul ryan, do you approve, disapprove of his job as speaker among republicans? this is from ppp has him upside down. 40% approve. 44% disapprove.
could be just because being associated with congress these days can be poisonous. that's important to keep in mind. >> donald trump owns a big swautswath of the republican party right now. pretty shocky that more republicans have gotten on donald trump's side at this party part of the process than they did with john mccain in 2008. ann coulter said tuesday night this is donald trump's republican party right now. i think that's true. one other wrinkle that part of the importance and stature of paul ryan's sort of place in this cycle is that he still has the trust of donors. donors are still willing to invest in paul ryan's gop in a way they have not been willing to invest in donald trump's gop. paul ryan still stands for free and fair trade.
paul ryan still stands for comprehensive immigration reform and a less riskier portfolio, less risky investment in the gop. it may be moot during presidential election year 2016 but in the long run, i think the gop donor class which unless we have billionaire after billionaire will have a place in future republican cycles is still, i think, more convinced that paul ryan is going to be around for the long haul and paul ryan's policy agenda is the right direction for the gop. >> but, you know, mike, what 2016 showed more than anything, i think this year and it's shown us so much. such a revolutionary year is the great divide. and it is a massive divide between the republican base and the republican donor class. that has picked wrong and wasted billions of dollars since 2008. always siding with losing
candidates. and, yes, they love jeb bush. jeb bush didn't win a primary. they loved marco rubio next. marco won minnesota in some rules -- bizarre rules that nobody still understands. i mean, i think if anybody is looking for a new party it just may be the republican donor class because donald trump does not represent them. he does not represent what they believe. he does not represent what they believe or paul ryan's believe or jeb bush has believed for a quarter century. >> this isn't the republican party. this is the party of trump. it's the g.o.t. any relationship between what he's doing and they're doing. you talk about a disconnect. it's a huge divide. he's not running from everywhere except 57th and 5th avenue in new york city and somehow he's gone from fifth avenue to replaying his populist message to a lot of people. the way this week is going,
don't you wonder if he's going to live tweetd from this meet with ryan today? seriously. this is starting to sound like the paris peace talks when they're arguing about the size of the table. i'm waiting for reporters to go, does he look happy? i think he looks happy. copy that. >> given the volatility of the candidate, donald trump, would anyone be surprised -- we'll not get the nuts and bolts of what happened today today. we're going to get arms around each other outside saying we had a nice start. nice conversation. but no one would be surprised, steve, if 24, 48 hours from now it's cryin ryan. >> there's a process we've seen where these things break down in full public view where you can imagine they leave today. there's nice words exchanged about each other. maybe something gets reported in the press that an aide to ryan said this or house aide said that. trump will pick up on it and then be at a rally tomorrow and
start gnawing at him and then the next thing you know it's a public war between them. >> the thing that's often happens with trump, you can imagine this, right, the whole thing goes well. then trump says something in public that ryan finds object n objectionable. one of these other things that's triggered ryan to be critical in the past. then ryan speaks out being critical of trump on that policy issue and then suddenly the thing, it's a conflagration where, we had that meeting. i thought he was a nice guy. but it looks like he lied to my face. at any point it could spin out of control. >> one of his principal focuses has been widening the republican party. making the party more inclusive. one of the things he's harked on privately and publicly to a certain extent is donald trump's idea of exkwluding muslims from entering this country. i don't know how they get over that's. >> but do you really think he's not going to come out and tell a
lot about -- this is a guy who thinks having an unspoken thought is a felony. so i think we might find a lot out when he comes out of this meeting today. joe? >> of course everybody talks about the postmortems the republicans had in 2013. talked about how republicans got slaughtered among hispanics. of course, black americans voting, giving republicans maybe 5%, 6%. the most troubling for a lot of gop consultants and politicians was that republicans were even getting routed among asian americans, a group that had been for the gop in the past. the reason why? because we have become seen as an intolerant party of absolutely everyone unless you were white, conservative and lived, you know, lived in the suburbs or in the country. again for paul ryan and for the
rest of the party, this has to be the worst case scenario because instead of paul ryan wanting to expand the party, you're narrowing it and a muslim ban does that even more. explain how george w. bush would campaign in inner cities not because he thought that people in inner cities were going to vote for him but because he knew it would show he was more inclusive for suburban housewives or suburban women who were scared of the republican brand. >> well, i'd argue george w. bush did it for both reasons. it's what he believed in and i remember being in my early 20s in california and watching this texas governor who governed with full knowledge that people who were here illegally had not committed, you know, some criminal act but they came here for a better life. george w. bush from the beginning of his career believed these things but also understood the political value of his policy set.
the single group that determines the outcome of the national election for republicans is married women. and married women have not come around on donald trump yet. and if he were to focus on a single group around a single set of issue, it's getting this group to trufts him to be their commander in chief. >> and what are those issues? what are those that married women care about? >> in 2004 they came around to george w. bush because in the wake of 9/11, they felt he'd keep them safer. the group voted largely as a bloc and chose george w. bush over john kerry on issues of national security. if donald trump wants to focus in. he's more of a scatter shot candidate, but if she wanted to focus in on an issue set, focus in on national security. there's the greater potential to forge some agreement with the leader paul ryan around national security than there is around
trade and entitlement reform. if they wanted to walk out of there with a couple of issues they could work on it's paul ryan's poverty agenda and the larger gop views on national security. it's the moment before this meeting starts they're still miles apart on both issues sets. >> if it truly is the g.o.t., the grand old trump party, then you'd say ryan has no choice but to get in line. >> it's an interesting conversation today. trump is talking about 2016 but ryan is thinking about 2020. and how close they can get on two differing viewpoints is going to tell the tale of whether they'll stand shoulder to shoulder but they'll not like it. >> joe in the first -- >> certainly have to know that -- you certainly have to know that paul singer, some of the biggest donors who would support paul ryan in 2020 may have second thoughts if he rushes too quickly into donald trump's arms.
steve kornacki, see you at 9:00. coming up, back to the hill talking to our correspondents scattershot all over the hill and also my good friend matt salmon on whether the republican party can afford to get behind donald trump. that's when we return. ♪ ♪ [engine revving] the all-new audi a4 is here. ♪ ♪
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welcome back to "joerng joe. let's go to capitol hill where we have the story covered. donald trump and paul ryan meeting in the next 20 minutes. kelly o'donnell is on capitol hill covering how this is looking from the senate side. we've been talking about paul ryan and the house this morning. donald trump meeting with republican senators who also have a lot to be concerned about and how this campaign turns out. >> we've heard so much about
paul ryan in part because he's taken that's somewhat controversial position of not yet fully endorsing the trump nomination. that's a very different story on the senate side. why have you heard less about senators? because their strategy is different. and that in and of itself is unusual to see any break between mitch mcconnell, the leader of the republicans in the senate and paul ryan is notable. i've talks to a lot of different aides and lawmakers and they've seen the wrath that's been put toward paul ryan with his hesitation. they want to keep things calmer and quieter. they're batting cleanup today. their meeting will follow the private three-person meet with priebus and ryan and trump and the larger house leadership meeting. then at a very casual before lunch kind of meeting what i'm sure grumbling stomachs won't have any effect on what's going on. 11:45, a group of senators, that
includes mcconnell duextends to rob portman and shelly moore and orrin hatch, the most senior member of the ghouse. they want to hear what he has to say. we've heard him talk unity. then it's a case of watching this unfold. >> kelly, thank you. donald trump is now arriving on the scene. we saw several of his cars and security detail that have been around donald for a very long time. getting out of the car and ready to go inside and have a meeting with the speaker of the hour, republican paul ryan from wisconsin. and how this meeting turns out, it certainly will have a big impact on the discussion over the next couple of weeks. there's donald trump waving to fans and just those who are
curious at the trump sighting. let's bring in katy tur. wherever donald trump goes, it may not be a reality show but it certainly looks like it. crowds form and that, today, is no exception. so what does the trump team expect out of this meeting today. >> right now what you're looking at is a secret service agent telling fuss donald trump comes out try to stay on the sidewalk. there's not a plan if donald trump decides to come out and speak. the expectations aren't quite as high for what we have outside. we have lines of press waiting to see just what will happen inside that meeting. whether or not they'll find a way to bridge their gap, to get along but i'm told by the trump folks this meeting is just so they can start to get to know each other, get face-to-face and feel each other out. they haven't had very many
meetings before this, conversations. the two men don't know each other but there's a lot of history there. donald trump in february trashed paul ryan for his entitlements. his desire to get rid of entitlements and for that wheelchair commercial back in 2012 when he was running with mitt romney. there's that to go against. also donald trump's tone which is no secret that people on capitol hill are not very happy with. remember paul ryan is from wisconsin. reince priebus is from wisconsin. that's a state donald trump did not want. as much as -- did not win. as much as they might want to come and try to bring him into the republican fold, he's walking in there even without wisconsin as somebody who has won the majority of the votes. he's won more votes in the primary season than mitt romney won last year. he's going to walk in there and say i've got a mandate. this is what i think the republican party, the direction that it should go in, and you guys better get on board. so there's not really a lot of room for donald trump to cowtow
to their desires. >> greatly appreciate it. we'll be getting back to you after the meeting. let's go to luke russert on capitol hill. we've talked about the senate. we've talked about paul ryan. what's at stalk for the house gop? they have a huge majority. as you and i have seen over the past six to eight years, huge majorities can disappear overnight especially in presidential elections. what are they concerned about, the rank and file house republicans? >> we have some protesters out in front of the rnc already for donald trump having to do with immigration reform. regarding the house, there is some worry from party insiders that's donald trump at the top of the ticket could be a wave that could have a negative impact on their majority.
would it be enough for the 30 seats they need to take over? probably not. but i thinking an underreported story is the division within the house gop conference. yesterday at their meeting, paul ryan took some heat from some members who said we felt blindsided by you not doing a full on endorsement of donald trump. others says thank you for standing up for your convictions. and some said we don't know which direction we're going to go. so paul ryan is not only representing himself. he's representing his conference and he has to at least, i think, joe, come back to that conference and say, look. i was able to extract something from trump that he's not going to be bombastic and adhere to conservative principles. what those are, i'm told ryan's big worry is the role of the executive branch versus legislatesive branch. he feels donald trump is not
respectful enough of congress, doesn't understand the mechinations of congress and wants a clarification from him that he will defer to congress and work as equal partners. so we'll see if that comes out today. i don't know that kumbaya comes out today but something ryan can make back of conference would be an accomplishment in itself. >> luke, that certainly would. a very good point about him representing the entire conference. the conference being divided and paul ryan no doubt getting pressure on both sides. the pro trump and anti-trump crowd. let's bring in right now a good friend of mine from arizona. he is congressman matt salmon. matt and i served together about 78 years ago. he came back, is still there. i bet he's sorry that he is. but, matt, let me ask you about donald trump and conservatism. here's somebody that has changed
positions on the minimum wage over the past week. he's changed positions on raising taxes. he never really was where most of the republican establishment is on trade. you can go down issue after issue after issue and a lot of concerns. take us into that meeting yesterday. how divided is the house republican caucus, and do you think you could ever get behind donald trump? >> first of all, joe, i think that there are concerns all over the spectrum. one of the biggest problems we've had with obama is regarding the separation of powers. and the executive branch doing so many things just by fiat. in fact, we've challenged him on numerous things. and i said one time long ago the last thing we want to do is trade their tyrant for our tyrant. we don't want to have a president that exceeds his authority. we'd like a president that works with congress. there are three co-equal branches of government and
everybody wants to have a comfort level that the next president is going to abide by the constitution a lot more than this president has. so that is one concern, i think, of a lot of members. the fact that he's different from where the republican party has been on taxation and social security and medicare. recently he talks about how he'd handle the debt so that he was just interested in printing more money. those are things that's aren't in concert with where a lot of us are, but i will also say that the last republican president, george w. bush, did things that i was vehemently opposed to. the medicare part b and i didn't agree with george w. bush on the leave no child behind act. i thought it was wrong. also george w. bush hiked up the deficit significantly, and i have a problem with that. i think the idea that the
republican president and the republican congress are going to have some kind of a love fest is not reality. and i think that ultimately, republicans have to stick together. so am i going to vote for trump over hillary? yeah, that's a no-brainer for me. >> so we know paul ryan is in the building now. i love that you put the words lovefest and reality in one sentence because the truth is our party is never a lovefest. i worked for george w. bush. whether it was social security privatization, the intraparty fights are often the worst. if you look at the polls and believe they could be true, hie he could be the next president. how do we as a party represent ourselves to the country and how do we present it as better than hillary? >> we still have to talk about limited government. a strong military and a strong u.s. presence in the world
today. i think we still have to talk about balancing our budget and living within our means. these are the things that conservatives can unite behind. there are things we'll nobtt be united about. let's talk about the things that unite us that i just mentioned. >> what's your best case scenario for what could happen here. two hours from now, three hours from now the absolute best thing you can see? >> we need a united party. the biggest disaster that could happen is an extension of the obama presidency, which i see hillary clinton as. i think that one of the most important issues we face in the next four years is who we're going to be the appointments to the supreme court. and i actually trust that the appointees by donald trump would be better than the ones by hillary clinton. i ultimately think the republican party needs to unite. paul, as the head of the
republican party, i think ultimately will get behind the republican nominee which appears to be trump. i think we need to move out together in a unified way in this election. to me, that would be the best outcome. >> you said you don't think donald trump is going to govern anything like he's campaigning. what does that mean, and why do you think that? >> i think that campaigning is oftenly referred to as the silly season. i met with leaders from overseas who are extremely concerned about this campaign. and i mentioned in the past a lot of candidates have campaigned one way and governed another. president obama campaigned against free trade. and then he put forward ttp and ttip, two of the most thorough and comprehensive trade deals america has ever known. so i believe that a lot of the things that trump has thrown into his campaign which is more
like reality tv than a presidential campaign. i think it's something he's tapped into. understands where the american voters are, and i believe he's going to govern far differently. i personally believe that he's going to govern probably more like bill clinton. when i say that, i don't say that with disdain. i believe more like bill clinton and that is looking for deals instead of trying to shove stuff down people's throats. >> matt salmon, always great to talk to you, buddy. and thanks for being on the show and providing your insight. if matt is any indication where the rest of the republican party is then paul ryan has his marching orders from his troops. bring the party together. unify republicans and prepare for the fight in the fall. that does it for us. thanks for watching "morning joe." stick around. steve kornacki starts right now.
good morning. all eyes on republican national headquarters in washington, d.c. donald trump stepping out of his car just moments ago and entering rnc headquarters there inside that building. he's going to have that face to face meet with paul ryan. ryan as of this moment withholding his support from his party's presumptive nominee. >> i don't really know him. i met him once in person in 2012. we had a very good conversation in march on the phone. we just need to get to know each other. >> that ryan/trump summit is going to get under way any moment now. the republican national chairman reince priebus is also going to be in the room. and trump will be meeting later today with more top republican leaders in washington, including the number one senate republican, mitch mcconnell. and that's also on our ajgenda today.
whose republican party is this? >> who is the leader of the republican party today? you are the presumptive nominee. not the nominee yet and the speaker of the house paul ryan. who is the leader? >> well, i would say paul ryan. i would really think that's. >> trump last night striking an unusual conciliatory tone towards ryan in advance of the meeting today. the other item on our agend adjust a suggestion. trump last night seeming to back away from his call to temporarily ban muslims from entering the united states. >> have you decided whether you'll back off on the ban. i realize it was a temporary ban but with an unlimited temporary period could go on forever. >> sure, i'd back off on it it. >> trump saying that was just a suggestion. that could be a potential ofive branch from trump to ryan. it's been condemned forcefully by ryan and by many other top