tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC May 17, 2016 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
this is very exciting. happy tuesday! thanks for being with us tonight. who knew the presidential race would still be on as late as the kentucky and oregon primaries? the beginning of the year, i didn't even write these ones in the calendar. i figured they would be done by now. chris matthews, chuck todd, joy reed, the great steve kornacki and his big board. jean robinson, nicole wallace. all of the campaign reporters. the gang is all here. it will be a big, busy night.
but i will tell you, we did not expect it to be this way and i'll tell you why. on april 26th, five states, five states cast their votes that night in the northeast. connecticut, delaware, new york, delaware and rhode island. bernie sanders won rhode island but hillary clinton won the other four states. the following day, the hillary clinton campaign, let it be known that they were done with the primary basically. candidate clinton, sure, she would keep herself making campaign appearances in the rest of the states on the democratic calendar but the clinton campaign made clear that even though bernie sanders was still in the race, the clinton campaign was going to be moving on. after those northeast primaries on april 26th, the clinton campaign said out loud that they would no longer spend any money to run ads in the democratic primary. and they didn't for awhile. until something about tonight made them change their minds. tonight, there are two races on the democratic side.
oregon and kentucky and oregon, as you know, polls close at 11:00 p.m. eastern. oregon looks like bernie sanders country but it is much more of a wild card than you might thing tonight in oregon. we'll be talking about that a bunch over the course of this evening but kentucky kentucky is sticking out like a sore thumb. something about this kentucky race tonight which has turned out to be so close. something made the clinton campaign reverse the earlier decision that it was no longer going to be advertising, that it was no longer going to be advertising in that state. they decided, because of something they saw in kentucky, that they were going to turn around. they were going to start advertising in that state, and they were going to send hillary clinton back in to campaign her guts out in that state. what was it about kentucky that made the clinton campaign decide to change course and at the last minute, put so much effort into trying to win this state?
and, looking at how close it is tonight, will they do it? joining us now at the big board is steve kornacki, what is going on? >> it is a close race. >> yeah. >> here is the deal in kentucky, just about all of the vote is in. bernie sanders, you can see it, this is fluctuating with every precinct we get and there are that many precincts left. bernie sanders is leading this thing, literally by a couple hundred votes. our count has it at 316, 316 vote lead for bernie sanders but the story in kentucky right now is one county, it is one city it is one part of the state. it is jefferson county. it is louisville, biggest city, biggest county in the state, biggest share of outstanding precincts by far. just about all of the outstanding presticincts are in louisville. great news for hillary clinton. this is a lead that is consistent as the return has come in. it doesn't seem like there is a huge sanders pocket in the county out there. we don't know right now exactly where that vote is but at this current was, if this is what we
see with the votes still to come in out of jefferson county, out of louisville, if it keeps at this clip, 58 for hillary, 40 for bernie sanders. she will probably pocket an additional 202,500 votes, net, gain. if you're looking at a bernie sanders lead of a couple hundred votes, if things, and look, it changed again. bernie sanders now up 1,000. up 1,000 right now. if you look at the lead he has statewide right now. if clinton gets what she is supposed to get out of louisville, that would volt her into the lead statewide and again, what we have otherwise, pretty much are a scattering of precincts throughout the state. some are in very strong sanders areas but you don't have the concentration like you have in louisville. i would have to go look and see on the air. we got a small dump of votes somewhere. i don't know where it came from. i'll go check. but hillary clinton right now, the story for her chances, it is louisville. what does she get out of louisville. >> steve kornacki, i can't
believe i have to get this specific in the questioning of you but do we know where in louisville the vote is still out? >> no. it is important, right? >> we've been watching the returns come in all night from louisville. we're up to 78% in now. it has been a consistent clinton lead as the numbers have come in. she has been at 56, 57, 58%. it is not like she started out up 80 and we've seen it come down as the results have come in. it has been pretty steady across the board. we'll see if it maintains that way for the last 22% to come in but so far it has been steady as it has come in. >> steve kornacki. i have a feeling we'll check in with you very, very soon. obviously this is tiny for what is happening with hillary clinton in the south where she has had an advantage with fa african-american voters. in kentucky african-americans make up 20%. that is the best possible scenario. there has to be an outstanding
vote somewhere. let's go out to chuck todd in washington d.c. did you expect it to be this much of a nail biter in kentucky. >> in the last three or four days, yes, when you saw, because the reason the clinton people went in is because number one it was a closed primary state so they knew there wouldn't be independent voters. they saw the numbers were better with registered democrats than they thought. so they saw a path and they're tired of the narrative of losing. part of me, this is really exciting. i love when a race is this close and i love doing what we're doing and what steve is doing at the board. but we're really talking about the difference of two delegates, right? depending on which way we go. so that really doesn't -- so there is, say, a pr problem that the clinton campaign has been facing in this month of may and they would like to stop it. and getting a split tonight, right, winning kentucky would guarantee a split and i don't
want to, i think way too many people have way too many assumptions about oregon and so we shouldn't assume, a lot of people have already been assuming that sanders would win there. yes, it fits the profile. yes, yes, yes. however, you know, it will be a massive turn out, mail in voting usually means that and it could be a different story. but at the end of the day, what are we waiting for here in these last precincts? we're waiting to see if hillary clinton can create a pr problem for bernie sanders, right? that is ultimately what this is about tonight. which headline, who will have the better headline and if you're sanders, losing kentucky on top of the nevada debacle and suddenly you're looking like a spoil sport, like sour grapes, a guy who is looking to take his ball and go home. that is what this is about. >> follow us on that briefly.
when the clinton campaign made this dramatic decision when that they would get back into the game. they out spent bernie sanders in kentucky. did something like a dozen campaign events in the last few days is that because they knew it was within reach? it was foreseeable to them as well? >> they went in, they polled it and they saw it was within reach. they saw it was winnable. they were up by a couple of points i think in the polling and they thought, okay it is a winnable race. might as well give it a shot because they had the money. >> yeah. >> and it wasn't going to be a lot of money and they saw that sanders wasn't going to contest it. sanders decided to concentrate his resources really on california. >> chuck todd, we'll check back in with you. thank you, my friend. >> let's bring in kristin welker who who has been following the clinton campaign. she is not in kentucky right now. she is in brooklyn outside of clinton headquarters. what is going on tonight with the clinton campaign? obviously we don't expect to hear from the candidate and she
is not in kentucky. >> she is not in kentucky. she is at her home watching returns and it under scores the fact that they're not quite sure what is going to happen there either one campaign official telling me that they saw it as a coin toss and that is essentially what we're seeing unfold right before our very eyes. they felt as though this race was competitive for all of the races you've been talking about, rachel. it is a closed primary, more diverse than a state like west virginia, and remember, the clintons also have a strong relationship with kentucky. this is a state that secretary clinton really trounced then senator obama back in 2008 and former president bill clinton won twice there. he has been out campaigning. secretary clinton had 13 events in the past several weeks. five in the past 48 hours alone, rachel, and so they've really aggressively, as you've been saying, gone after this state and they're not quite sure what
will happen but dpagain, this i about trying to regain the momentum, trying to stem all of the wins from senator sanders. he wants to head into the convention, if she does, in fact, clinch this nomination, on strong and solid ground and if she doesn't start to put wins on the board there, is concern within the democratic party that they're going to question her strength as a general election candidate, so as chuck has been saying, this is really a pr problem. but of course, senator sanders continues to complicate her efforts to pivot to the general election and that is something she is trying to focus on as well. >> kristin welker at clinton headquartered in brooklyn with a politely backing up truck behind her. safety first. let's bring in our friends on the panel. jean robinson. my friend nicole wallace. veteran and survivor of multiple republican campaigns including also the bush white house. >> you're strong, you're robust, you eat well. it will all be fine.
>> let me ask you. let me bring in our friend chris hayes across the studio. hello, chris hayes. there you are, my colleague here. chris, let me start with you. what kristin welker was saying about momentum versus pr is one more real than the other? is there a thing as a momentum gain that either democratic candidate could get out of kentucky. >> there is a material effect from momentum for bernie sanders and hillary clinton and that is money. i think that victories help and they help with fund raising and so even if it is ten votes or 100 votes or 500 votes, being able to send out an e-mail saying we won another state, that makes, i don't know what the total is, i think we're at 20, we're in this race, we're fighting all the way. that helps and that entire campaign runs on small dollar donations. the small dollar donations are raised through the e-mail list and online and so that is a real
tangible thing for them. we've seen the fundraising decline for the sanders campaign over the last month but it has not gone away entirely which some people predicted. there is still a base of folks that are, as you can tell, totally invested in this campaign through june and maybe after. >> mm-hmm. exactly. and let me put that to you, obviously, we're going to hear from bernie sanders tonight and he will be in california. that said, the sanders campaign said they're not doing tv advertising in california. >> that's correct. >> they have scaled way back. we think of them as having more money than they know what to do with but if is that is a limiting factor for them, they didn't really spend in kentucky, they only spent a little bit in oregon, not spending in california. what is it for? >> it is because their intake has gone down, right, obviously in terms of the money they have and replaced the state director. the guy running it now, robert becker, he is not an ad guy, he
is a ground guy. they're trying to take down some of the ads which are really expensive. california is obviously an expensive media market. to the point that kristin is making there, are more delegates available in puerto rico than today in kentucky. for the sanders campaign, a win here was mostly psychological and it is a state built for him in terms of the white population and the anger in parts of appalachia in things like trade. hillary clinton made unartful comments about coal. hillary clinton doesn't need it. it is a talking point that goes on top of of what happened in nevada. at this point is bernie sanders helping the democratic party or a spoiler. >> it is always better to win than lose. how big is a win. >> i think this is problematic for bernie sanders in that the fibula position of the sanders campaign is that we can still win this and it is a very tough
road, you know, we can still win it, and to the extent that people -- >> how? how? >> exactly. >> i banged my head on this table and i won't do this again. he can't win -- >> he could persuade super delegates to flip the support to him because he would be a stronger candidate. >> he won't beat her in delegates or in aggregate votes. the super delegates are not going to switch. unless some huge external things happens. it is not going to happen. to the extent that that dawns on people, on sanders voters, they will, fewer of them will turn out. that is human nature and so i think what is important for sanders is to keep that sort of
level of expectation and hope alive and, you know, and how do you keep it alive when in fact -- >> it seems like -- >> when you argue against it. >> i do not understand for the life of me why there isn't a force inside the democratic party that says look at what is happening to hillary clinton. you have donald trump saying really, really nasty things about hillary clinton, you have bernie sanders saying the same, very, very nasty things about hillary clinton and now you have a pile of evidence in polls in ohio where trump is now ahead of the democratic nominee, hillary clinton is the democratic nominee, mathematically speaking, yes, you know, he could flip super delegates but jeb bush could emerge as a gop nominee. >> to that point, we have a math update we have to do here of the results of kentucky, is that 99% in? >> this is it basically. we've been saying we've been waiting for louisville. hillary clinton jumped ahead by nearly 3,000 votes statewide. we said it comes down to louisville.
it is in now. hillary clinton expanded her lead by 3,000 votes and the last time we checked in. there is a few, just a scattering of precincts left here. it is basically all in in louisville. basically all in statewide. she got the big vote expecting out of louisville. we said she was running 58%. the rest came in. she basically got the same thing. it was a bernie sanders lead, it turned it into a hillary clinton lead of 2,500 votes. that is a 3,500 vote swing. there aren't enough votes left for bernie sanders to make that up. >> this has not been projected by nbc but 99% is in. hillary clinton has lept ahead of the big uncommitted number, 5% will loom as people start talking about the overall race. nicole, finish your point. >> i don't know why there isn't a force inside the democratic party. i don't know why the white house doesn't step in and say bernie, you've had your fun. i know you're bringing in lots of money and your crowds are
massive but it ain't going to happen. >> who would he say it to? >> bernie. doesn't he have a phone? >> he doesn't have a deep loyalty to the democratic party. he is doing a cause and a movement. >> if she loses by three percentage points to donald trump i think we'll look back to this point when the most damage is done to her. >> but you're assuming there is a democratic establishment that has survived in tact while the republican establishment is totally wiped out. sanders if phenomenon is an anti-establishment phenomenon. it is a bad year for those -- >> let me say that with one caveat. the one parallel you can see, i defy and disbelief everybody saying there is a facel
connection between bernie sanders and donald trump but bernie sanders and donald trump are the two leading presidential candidates who were not members of their parties until very recently, four years ago donald trump was not registered republican. two years ago, bernie sanders was not a registered democrat and so those are the two candidates of all of the 7,000 people who ran for president this year that are least susceptible to anyone calling them up. >> the difference is that donald trump is now able to deictate t the republican leadership and meet with them and bend them to his will. bernie sanders is the opposite. it is not that he either listens to the democratic establishment or dictates to them. they don't fear them. the candidate they preferred is winning, is going to win. there is no debt on either side of the negotiations and he doesn't fear them. that is the issue. and why would he? what is he going to do? >> at the end of the day, will he say to the supporters, we are part of the democratic party, our home is the democratic party, we must make the democratic party more welcoming
to us and more to our liking, but this is where we live. does he say that at the end of the day? that, i think, absolutely, after nevada and after the fight that happened over nevada today, is a hugely open question. >> i think if she loses, we'll look back at this period, these couple of weeks when the most damage was inflicted upon her. week after week of humiliating loss and the commentary about how bernie sanders doesn't care about the democratic party, well, listen to trump echo every nasty thing bernie sanders says about hillary and watch her numbers plunge. >> where are we at now? >> hillary clinton is leading by 2,600 votes try is basically nothing left on the board here. i can show you, the story of this is right here. we talk about this as the quirky tradition in democratic primaries. the uncommitted votes. this could be the difference of bernie sanders winning and losing the state. this is on the ballot. if you don't want to vote for clinton or sanders, check off uncommitted. usually you don't see too many
statewide. there is a huge, huge disparity tonight between where that uncommitted vote is coming in. check this out. we've been talking about louisville. this is where clinton got the big surge in votes. it is 2%. 2% of the democrats and hillary clinton's best county of the state. the one that put her into the lead, checked off uncommitted tonight. you see that as well in the cincinnati suburbs. hillary clinton won these by a narrow margin. you see a small, uncommitted vote. you see the area around the university. i got it right. we talked about the area around the university of kentucky, hillary won it, look 2rks %. not -- 2%. not many. sanders county, rural. oh, my god, the uncommitted vote through the roof. eight times what it is in some of the clinton counties. we're seeing this across the state. the rural areas of this state where bernie sanders is doing the best. hillary clinton is doing the worst. what you have here are conservative democrats. these are people it is likely, we don't know for sure, we don't have exit polls tonight.
it is likely this is an extension of what we saw in west virginia last week that these are probably donald trump voters. these are probably people who have a democratic registration but who have been voting republican in presidential elections for a long time now. they're the reason kentucky is reliably red states. they vote not just because of this race but because of statewide races on the ballot. we saw in west virginia, they had the chance to vote for bernie sanders against hillary clinton. they took in a lot of cases. they could have voted for sanders over clinton or uncommitted. a lot of them took uncommitted, if that option had not been there, bernie sanders gets a lot of the votes and we would have a different story. >> i would like to get an opinion from chuck todd. looking at the big proportion of uncommitted voters coming from steve's describing it from sanders counties, what is that, there is a question of what this means for the democratic race and what that means looking ahead to the general. i think we're all thinking that kentucky will be a trump state
in the general. is this a guarantee of that? >> i think it is a guarantee of that and it goes to, look, steve explained this very well. there is a long tradition. kentucky is one of those states -- >> chuck i have to interrupt you for a second. >> we used to do this all of the time, rachel, remember? >> you are a good person to interrupt, it always means something interesting is about to happen. nbc news can now project that hillary clinton is the apparent winner of the kentucky democratic primary. chuck, while i have you here, explain apparent winner versus projected winner. >> we say apparent for a couple of reasons. it means we can't find any more vote. we know there is not enough vote left in what we know is out there for sanders to over take clinton. but we don't know, you know, over the next 24 hours, you will have local election officials, they sort of will correct things, things happen, you know? you hear about this all of the time and because it is such a close race and such a close vote, let's say there is a
county that a small county even, but maybe they wrote down the number wrong, the secretary of state's office and stuff like that, so it it is our way of covering ourselves to say look, there is possible there is a margin of error essentially but right now we can tell you, we don't know of any more vote left that is enough to somehow change the order of this race so hillary clinton is the apparent winner, but because we have to wait for certifications and corrections and all of that stuff, we slap on the apparent tag. >> just to be clear, this is not a call we should expect to change over the course of tonight from apparent to projected. >> correct. it means this would be a call, if it changed it would change tomorrow because, you know, there was an error or some big, there is a precinct missing, for whatever reason, but this wouldn't be something that gets changed tonight. >> okay. with that apparent winner, again it is psychological, momentum it
may have a difference in effect of maybe two delegates in the long run. but what did we learn about how this went down tonight? >> i think we learned that, look, i think that hillary clinton campaign is mindful of what nicole wallace was saying a few moments ago. this is not a healthy way to sort of finish off this nominating process. hillary clinton needed a little something to be able to win something in may. she was setting herself up potentially to go oh for may. she won't. that is helpful for her. now, boy, if you're the clinton campaign right now or, let's turn it this way, the sanders campaign. you have to deal with this nevada debacle combined with, you know, you lost one tonight, and now you're the spoiler and i think you're going to see more and more clinton supporters. i don't think it will come from the clinton campaign but it will come from surrogates who say enough is enough, bernie, don't be a spoiler, you'll only hurt
yourself. now, that could have a boomarang effect. i can go on my twitter feed tonight, they're not happy with me tonight because i'm not one of those that believe the race is going just like the rest of us. we see the math, we know this nomination process is essentially over but the sanders people don't bloelieve it. they believe it has been rigged against them. they believe what happened in nevada is an example of what happened to them in 49 other states in various forms, so i don't think there is quit in his supporters. the question is going to be, does harry reid even have influence on supporters? harry reid might. he wants to be a player in the united states senate. if anybody has the ability, and nicole was wondering who in the democratic party can have this conversation? i think it is only harry reid and chuck schumer who cultivated this relationship with sanders
for years when he got to the senate to keep him on the democratic reservation. there about, i believe the only two people who have that leverage. >> why doesn't the white house get involved? i mean, i would guess that the bernie sanders base is very similar to a lot of the voters that were energized and inspired by president obama. i would think he would have the most sway with, particularly the young democrats. why don't they get involved? >> i've asked that same question of two folks at the white house, i think they don't want to, i think they don't think they have the sway right now. i think at some point they think they do, but if they were -- they admit, they haven't really been a neutral party here, right sng while they technically haven't endorsed clinton it is hard to feel as if they've been anything but rooting for her. that has been pretty clear. even the president almost is sort of hinted at that, so i think they don't, from what i'm told is they think it is too risky and it will back fire.
>> chuck todd joining us from washington. thanks, chuck. when we get back we have senator sanders one supporters. he is a supporter of bernie sanders in the senate. he is joining us for a couple of reasons. he is awesome. number two, he is from oregon and he may be able to talk to us about how this race ends and what senator sanders future might be like if it is in fact just in the united states senate.
in the great commonwealth of kentucky, nbc news projected an apparent winner in the democratic party. some what of a surprise. hillary clinton the apparent winner over bernie sanders in kentucky. overall tonight, we're watching two states. three races, and three candidates. i'll tell you some are watching more closely than others. donald trump is the last remaining candidate in the republican primary and as such, the results tonight of his race in oregon, they're not going to be a cliff hanger. that said, heading into tonight, this is interesting. i'm not sure why they appreciate it and we welcome your hate mail about this if you don't want to hear it. hillary clinton, heading into tonight, was actually closer to
clinching her nomination than donald trump is to clinching his. before tonight, donald trump was just over 92% of the way there to clinching the majority of republican delegates in the nomination. on the democratic side, if you factor in the declared support of the super delegates, even before apparently winning kentucky tonight, hillary clinton, heading into tonight, was actually closer to clinching her nomination on the democratic side than trump is for the republicans. hillary clinton heading into tonight is just over 94% of the way there to the nomination. donald trump, 92% of the way to the nomination. that is if you take super delegates at their word. she is closer to her nomination for the democrats than trump is to the nomination for the republicans. now, we do not expect to hear tonight from the republican presumptive nominee donald trump nor do we expect to hear tonight from hillary clinton as kristin welker reported. she is home tonight. we won't hear a speech from clinton but we expect to hear
from bernie sanders who is in california and really, it is anybody's guess as to what he is going to say. this seems like a particularly fraught moment in the democratic primary. joining us now is juror jesenat mercury. he is the only senator to endorsed sanders. it is nice to see you. >> it is great to be with you rachel. >> let me ask you, hillary clinton is the apparent winner in kentucky. i imagine it is a surprise. >> i thought she was going to win by more than 5%, so i'm surprised it is this close gechb the enormous investment she made over the past couple of weeks. enormous effort to prepare in kentucky but i have to jump in on what your panel was talking about. why isn't there somebody in the democratic party that puts an end to this series of primaries and say it is time to fold up the tent. the answer is this, the folks across the country
participanting want to go through and cast their vote and be heard. they want to be heard about their concerns about the big issues facing america and that we can't just take small steps. we have to make big steps and make passionate steps on climate change and getting money out of politics and international trade, jobs, if secretary clinton is the victor, you want to be able to bring those folks into the camp and you can't do that if you cut them off at the knees before they've had a chance to participate. >> the clinton campaign is not the folks telling the sanders campaign that it should end. they've been pretty explicitly that they haven't asked him to end. the question is whether or not the on going primary at this point is parasitic to the democrats chances of winning in november because bernie sanders is effectively campaigning now that the democratic party is corrupt, that hillary clinton is somehow corrupt, that people shouldn't trust the process, that the process itself is evil and stacked up against people
that have bernie sanders kind of values. that is the worry. it is the tone and it is the tenor of the type of campaign that he is running now. the people worry that it started to essentially occurredle in the democratic -- curdle in the democratic party. >> tempered are frayed but we want to bring the focus back to the policy. but when we try to build this bridge after june 7th. when california weighed in and the dakotas weighs in and new mexico weighs in. when we build that bridge, we have to build it with people feeling like they were heard and so there are down sides but there is a much bigger upside to keeping people feeling like they're fully part of the process and able to participate. it was june 7th or 8th when hillary clinton said she was ready to concede that the math wasn't there. she waited until the end of the state primaries.
and so we're really seeing her replay of that and secretary clinton can really understand that having been in exactly the same position herself. >> the one difference that i would say, i appreciate that parallel particularly with the calendar, one difference is that hillary clinton had, if not a life long, then a very, very long association with the democratic party at that point, senator sanders doesn't. i said earlier this hour that i think it is an open question as to whether or not senator sanders will tell his supporters not just to defeat donald trump, not just to support hillary clinton but also that the democratic party is their home, that is the democratic party is where they belong. he hasn't been a democrat for very long and there wasn't that kind of a dynamic at play between obama and clinton in 2008. what is your sense of the sort of democratic allegiance of senator sanders and whether he will try to retain that for the supp supporters. >> i talked to bernie a year ago when he was trying to decide to
run as a democrat or independent. our comment is we can't have another ralph nater. that is unacceptable and bernie said the last thing he was going to let happen was for him to be in the same position. he has repeated it recently with different words saying he is going to do everything possible to make sure that trump is not elected president and so we'll play out these primaries, we have a couple weeks, we have this funny space, right? what are we going to do, a week from tonight and two weeks from tonight. we have to wait three more weeks for the big set of final state primaries but we'll see people working to build this bridge, secretary clinton's team will have to reach out. bernie's team will have to reach out. they share so much and we're fortunate, we're blessed with these two tremendously capable individuals, but it is essential for the future of the country that we bring them together, go into the convention shoulder to
shoulder, go into the election together, otherwise we're putting our nation at risk and really, at risk in such a profound way. we have a charlotton on the republican side. he is posing as a proponent of workers. what did has he done? under cut workers. imported people from over seas to work here. he won't disclose his taxes, he has a tax plan for billionaires to get more tax cuts. i mean, we can not let this happen. bernie understands that. >> senator jeff merkley in oregon. thank you for making time. >> we're looking ahead to the oregon poll closing at 8:00 p.m. local time which is 11:00 p.m. eastern time. we have a lot to do between now and then. we'll check in on a bernie sanders rally. respect expected to spe bernie sanders expected to speak tonight. we'll be talking about some, we'll be talking with someone
the last few minutes. nbc news projected an apparent winner in the kentucky democratic primary. it was as close as you basically can get but hillary clinton is projected as the apparent winner in kentucky tonight. we don't expect to be hearing from hillary clinton tonight. she is having a night at home in new york just north of new york city. we expect to be hearing tonight from bernie sanders who is not in kentucky, he is in carson, california. joining us now from carson from the site of where this bernie sanders rally will be later tonight is our own nbc chris jansing. thanks for being with us. are you getting reaction from
the sanders campaign about the loss in kentucky. >> i just heard from jeff weaver who is the campaign chairman and he said in his own way essentially saying they dominated the last time around and oregon is still to come. i talked to senior staff all day today. they were nervous about kentucky. she had the last minute blitz there you were talking byte i i think this will be a place where they look at and say knowing she was going in with more money, knowing she was basically camping out in kentucky for the last couple of weeks, should they have cancelled his trip to puerto rico over the weekend. put more money into ads, that is something they'll have to answer going forward. obviously they have oregon going up tonight. that is why they're here in california. they wanted to time the rally for the closing of the polls obviously walting for a big win. there is no scenario in the incredibly tiny narrow path that they have to that allows them to go to the convention and make an
argument to the super delegates that bernie sanders should be the nominee that doesn't include a win in oregon. as he lands here shortly, they're certainly hoping they have a second bit of good news by the time he takes the stage which isn't until 11:00 eastern time. >> chris jansing at the site of the sanders rally. we'll be checking back in with you. thanks. appreciate it. it is interesting what chris was saying from the sanders campaign. we've been hearing rumors all day that both sanders and clinton expect sanders to not just win in oregon, but to blow out in oregon. i think it was also pretty widely expected that hillary clinton would win in kentucky. i don't know if that means anything for oregon, i guess i probably expect that sanders will win there, too. this is a night when it is more been expectations than delegates. the momentum is going to be very much affected by what people expect. >> the kentucky expect yakss are weird. i expected sanders to win because of the democratic make up of the states.
what i've done is what is the percentage of the black vote, if it is under 10% i expect sanders to win. >> after west virginia and indiana -- >> absolutely. and then they stop spending. and once clinton put in $175,000 and clinton put 90,000. they realized there was enough black vote out of louisville with a strategy on the ground. oregon is built to be a sanders state for a lot of greens. if it feels like a bernie state. i think for sanders, because he isn't taking delegates, the truth is he needs the wins for the morale because earlier, jeff merkley said that the voters in the western state want to be heard. no, the sanders want the nomination. they don't want to be just heard. they want the nomination to be given to bernie sanders and they believe that the democratic party. is convincing parties you've been heard and that getting the nomination is not the only fair outcome. >> it is not the only positive outcome. >> right. >> and it is not a possible
outcome! what am i missing? >> you're not missing anything. you're right. it is not possible. he can't do it. but at some point and one would think fairly soon, sanders himself needs to convey that message, right? >> he is the only one that can. >> he has to say, you know, we gave it our shot. we have had a massive influence on the democratic party. >> on hillary, right? >> on hillary clinton. and we're going to be participating in this great campaign in the fall to the end, but we're not going to win the nomination. you have to say this. >> chris hayes, when you hear jeff weaver tell chris jansing this was not a loss in kentucky it was a tie, is that important in terms of how this overall race ends? >> it signals the fact that they are, nothing has changed. i mean, i really think that there is nothing between now and june 7th, and that has been the
case forever, short of entirely running out of money to the point where they couldn't pay anyone, that would stop them. i mean, so that is someone who is still flacking for a campaign in the midst of flacking for a campaign. everything out of the sanders campaign are people advocating for a campaign ta is still campaigning. they don't wink and nudge. bernie sanders has gone through this speech where they say we're very good at math. we understand it is an up hill climb. everything out of the campaign is messaged as a campaign that is trying to get to philadelphia to try to win the nomination. nothing that happens tonight, even if they lost by 20 points. if they lost oregon by 20 points will change that. they will be contesting. the big question is after the 7th. that, to me, is the major flat point. if california votes and d.c. votes you say at that point, okay, now everybody has voted.
we have 3 million votes less than hillary clinton. 9.7 for bernie sanders. let's say those split evenly. we didn't win. we did not get as many votes as the other person which for me, from even just an idealogical point of view, a first principle issue, that is what matters here, the person who wins the most votes gets to be the nominee. >> there is a timing thing here, though, chris. look, during this period, between now and june 7th, donald trump is going to be doing his best to destroy hillary clinton. he is going to come out with something new every day. call remember crooked hillary. he is going to be doing that thing that he does and that he does rather effectively, and it is hard for me to argue that this will have absolutely no effect on her and absolutely no effect on her prospects. do the sanders people argue
that, you know, tell themselves that it will have no impact, that they are, in fact, not in any way, shape, or form making it more difficult for hillary clinton to defeat donald trump? >> i mean, yeah, the sanders campaign is saying they're running their race. they want hillary clinton to run theirs and it is important that donald trump be defeated. they're talking about different lanes here. we have to go here. we'll take a quick break. when we come back, we'll speak to somebody who is short listed as a possible running mate choice for hillary clinton about the end of the race stuff and also the general election. stay with us.
just over an hour from now, polls were closed in oregon, polls are closed in kentucky already, nbc news projected hillary clinton as the apparent winner tonight in the democratic primary in kentucky. joining us now is the highest ranking latino, congressman besara. this narrow win by hillary clinton in kentucky. >> hillary clinton is a winner. we're going to get used to saying that, come november, i think le will see it in a big way. we keep going in this direction. i have enjoyed watching this animated race. i believe it's been good for democrats, increasing the
enthusiasm, making it clear in november, on the democratic side a lot of people will come out. >> should bernie sanders stay in until the convention or come out before then? >> i think i've said this several months now, bernie sanders will do what bernie sanders wants to do. he has earned the right to do and will do the right thing it's because he has something to prove and offer voters if he makes it clear, i think he will do it in the right way. i'm more concerned about the supporters and whether or not they're going to understand where we're heading. but senator sanders and all of his supporters have earned a right to be a part of this democratic process. big d and little d. >> you were a supporter of
barack barack in 2008. you are an enthusiastic supporter of hillary clinton this time around. you have been described as one of the people hillary clinton may be considering as a potential running mate. i have to ask you, if you are interested and if you know you are being vetted for that job? >> you put a lot of qualifiers in there. what i can tell you is that this at the end of this week, i'm going to the coast of california to help a person who owe think a supervisors, i'm going to help my colleagues throughout the country. i will do everything to make sure we have a house, to work with the next president, hillary clinton. between now and november, ki only control what i can do. i will do everything i can to make sure hillary clinton wins
and make sure that democrats have a chance to reclaim majorities in the house and the senate. >> if she asked you to run, do you know what you would say? >> you are doing everything bobble to get the becerra clan to wrouch watch msnbc, stay glued to the television set. it's one of those things, you talk of a son of immigrants, would i believe i would be a member of congress? i -- to whatever comes the sky's the limit. >> well put, not at all answered. thank you, we appreciate you being with us tonight. >> thank you. >> we have a lot more coming tonight. just over an hour, polls close in oregon. hillary clinton is projected as the apparent winner in kentucky. we'll be right back.
welcome back to our big rolling extravaganza. of the last polls closed n. kentucky primary, 7:00 eastern. the apparent winner of the democratic primary tonight is former secretary of state hillary clinton. it was a squeaker, but she appears to have won. kentucky has been good to the clinton family over the years. bill clinton won twice, in 1992 and 1996,