tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC May 18, 2016 1:00am-2:01am PDT
go ahead even . good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. tonight, nbc news is projecting bernie sanders as the winner of the oregon primary. meanwhile, donald trump, the presumptive republican nominee, cruised to victory there, perhaps not surprisingly. though john kasich pulling in a strong 17%. in kentucky, hillary clinton is the apparent winner. in a razor-thin margin. 47% to bernie sanders 46% bernie sanders. this would be clinton's first outright primary in three weeks. the sanders campaign said they could call for a recount in the state. they said they'll take a close look and will make a decision on
wednesday. senator sanders continued to look ahead to the national convention in philadelphia. he is still right now speaking to an enthusiastic crowd in southern california. before nbc projected the race, he thanked the voters of kentucky and laid out what he sees as his path forward to the convention in philadelphia. >> in a couple of weeks, if we can win big in new jersey, new mexico, north and south dakota, montana, california, we have the possibili possibility. it will be a steep climb. i recognize that. but we have the possibility of going to philadelphia with a majority of the pledged delegates. let me also say a word to the leadership of the democratic par party.
and that is -- that is that the democratic party is going to have to make a very, very profound and important decision. it can do the right thing and open its doors and welcome into the party people who are prepared to fight for real economic and social change. >> joining me now from that rally is nbc's chris jansing. and you can see the massive crowd behind her. chris, i've got to say, striking to me at least how it came across on the television set, it looked like it could have been a rally four months ago. >> reporter: and it looks like a rally where he thought he might have won, actually, in kentucky. but he came out and he said, we basically split the delegates. his campaign said we basically tied in a state where she really won easily the last time around. and if anybody thought, chris,
that he was going to be cowed by the criticism of people like debbie wassermann schultz and barbara boxer and other members, other supporters of hillary clinton about what happened over the weekend in nevada, he most certainly was not repeatedly issuing a challenge to the democratic party and suggesting that anyone who says that bernie sanders should jump out of the race is somebody who's suggesting that the votes of california shouldn't count. and you can just imagine the reaction when in the middle of this stump speech, chris, he came out and said jane sanders just told me that oregon has been called for bernie sanders. it is our 20th state, and the place went absolutely wild. he is calling this the beginning of his push here in california. he's going to be barnstorming the state. anybody, again, who thought that there was any chance that if he lost a state today, he might be giving any reconsideration to
the path going forward, he made it very clear tonight as he and his campaign aides have made to me earlier today that nothing that happened tonight was going to change the trajectory of this race. they are moving forward through california, through the district of columbia, and on to the convention. and just one more note. this place is absolutely packed to the rafters. we just got a crowd count. 11,168, chris. >> wow. that's a lot of people, chris jansing, thank you very much, there in carson, california. joining me now at the table, democratic strategist, ben ginsburg, political analyst who serves the national council for george w. bush's and mitt romney's campaigns. and our own cakasie hunt, political correspondent. you spent a lot of time with the sanders campaign. >> yes. >> how are they going to land the plane? no, like, you know, sanders has this line, we can do math and
everyone at this table with do math. they're 300 pledged delegates down. they'd have to win by 35 points in all the remaining contests to win. that is almost certainly barring some absolutely historically anomalous situation not going to happen. so then what? what do you think? >> it's a question that honestly i've been asking for months. and there's been this internal struggle back and forth between usually it's jeff weaver, the campaign manager on one side, tad devine, the strategist on the other, and it wavers back and forth. the bernie sanders that you've seen over the last 48 hours, if anything ratcheted this up, just look at that statement he put out on what happened in nevada earlier today, how it contrasts with lucy flores. she put out a statement talking about how there should be no room for that kind of name calling of female supporters of either hillary clinton or bernie sanders, and that, of course, was absent from the statement that bernie sanders put out. and i think the clip you played at the very beginning, the same
thing. i think it's becoming less and less clear, honestly, how he lands this plane. and i think there's going to have to be a serious reckoning at some point with just how far are they willing to take this. and if bernie sanders himself has kind of fomented his supporters in a way that's going to become irreversible. it seems now in a much tougher place than it did even a month ago. >> ben? >> this is what establishment candidates had to deal with in 2008, in 2012. the landing pad is a set of ideals and a movement. >> which in many ways seemed very successful in 2010 in terms of infiltrating the party. >> absolutely. and i think bernie sanders has taken a big step to doing here. you'll see it in platform fights. you may see a credentials fight over what happened in nevada. and you'll see it in some rules changes potentially for how the primary is run. >> part of the issue -- i don't
know to give a long statement on what happened in nevada, but it was a battle at the state convention overrules changes and credentialing that was really about the apportionment of what will be two delegates to the national convention. i think mathematically you can say the clinton people came out with two up. they got two probably more than the math said they should get. out of two, the thousands that will go. you're a veteran of these kinds of fights. does this all come out in the wash two months from now? >> so what happens is -- and ironically, it was nevada in both 2008 and 2012 on the republican side. >> the ron paul people took it over! they took your party from you! >> or you never quite know where we're going with this. what ultimately happens is that you do have sort of a clash at a convention and a clash of wills, but it gets worked out as the convention proceeds. >> the thing is, though, i think the sanders kpaun woucampaign w
on the bridge because they have such huge crowds. >> 45% of the votes of the republican party and had he, he would have been in a much -- i mean, with his 50% of the vote. >> sanders is in a stronger position than perhaps ron paul was. >> there was a moment tonight where people started chanting "bernie or bust" while sanders was speaking. bernie or bust is a thing that people i think very numerically small percentage of supporters say sort of like the version of never trump. what do you think about that? >> right. we've talked about this for a long time. we've seen bernie supporters who have been very aggressive. and i think that it's getting worse -- or better for them. they're becoming much more passionate about it. and to your point, i saw a different bernie sanders today in the last 24 hours. he's definitely going harder, stronger, faster. and that momentum is certainly paying off. but, you know, it's not even about policy.
it's not even about the issues anymore. this is about a political revolution. and it's something that people want to hear. >> it is notable to me that bernie sanders, who i've known for a very long time, interviewed many times, and to his great credit, he will rap you on the knuckles when you ask questions, and he'll tell you, who do you work for again? make you do that. it is striking to me, as much as they're on message about the middle class and inequality and oligarchy, there's a little bit of mission drift to where the point now is like the big issue is open or closed primaries in the democratic party which frankly doesn't to me seem like that important compared to that big set of issues that this campaign sort of started laserlike focused on. >> i think there's a dynamic at play that ties into that. one thing people aren't talking about is there is a segment of bernie sanders supporters that are looking to punish the democratic party. >> now they are, yes. that is true. >> they don't think that he is going to win the primary.
but they want to punish the party, and they want to punish hillary clinton for what they believe has been not standing up to corporate interests, being a part of a rigged system, all those things that you enumerated. this is a part of that. >> let's be clear, the democratic party is complicit in all those things. i mean, in the sense that they're going to run a convention that's going to be sponsored by a bunch of big fortune 500 companies that are going to flow a ton of money, they're going to be an allied super pac. the critique is that this shouldn't be going on for either party and the democratic party is going to play ball with all of the corruptions of campaign finance in the same way. >> yeah, and it -- >> they need to pay for it, though. they think it should be paid for. >> it will also be most significantly decided by superdelegates which are the establishment of the party who sway the power. >> although they will not be -- if you had a scenario where bernie sanders won the majority
of pledged delegates and overrule the democratic will of the democratic party, then you would be chicago '68 literally. >> yeah, but the influence of superdelegates and to be able to put part of the count that hillary clinton talked about did potentially have an impact on voters who might have voted differently and certainly on the media coverage. >> it may have on the media coverage, although one thing i would say is if it was having an effect, we wouldn't see what we're seeing now, liz, which is democratic voters -- i mean, look, my feeling about this, my principle is you listen to people voting. people should vote. they should determine the outcomes. that's what the country was founded on, sort of. you know, you look at the voters of the democratic party, they are saying we want to keep going. they're showing up in kentucky. 46% of us are going to vote for bernie sanders and they're going to show up in oregon. they are not sending a message that we want this over. >> right. obviously violence was striking this weekend in nevada, but there were as many sanders supporters as hillary supporters. she is the front-runner.
she should be having rallies that as big as that and it's just not happening. that momentum is not happening for her. at this point she has two opponents. >> she does have two opponents. >> bernie sanders is now hitting -- i mean, he's hitting donald trump now. he's almost in this general kind of -- what word am i looking for? >> in the general election and also -- i mean, that's a good point about him hitting trump because one thing that struck me tonight was two things. as much as a kind of ratcheting up as his statement on nevada seemed to be, there were two things that struck me. one was he went after trump very hard. right? >> he did, yeah. >> and that seems to be -- he's adding more of that into his -- republican party betrays the working class. >> i'll be damned if they vote for him. >> also, he did sort of leave a door open like if you welcome us in, that's broad enough that they can do things that he could then turn around and say they've done, right? >> potentially. and i'm curious to see if there is pressure from his supporters to have him -- we saw whispers
of this, right, there was some reporting that there were staffers and supporters of his who were saying hey, maybe you should get out now and focus, you know, found a group that's focused on beating trump, for example. i don't know if those calls will start to get louder. i think that the central problem for hillary clinton right now is there's still this unsettled feeling about how the democratic party beats donald trump. and they can't figure out how to do it if all of these young voters and bernie sanders supporters are still out there working for bernie. >> that adjective is a great description, unsettled. the race is in a strange moment where it's unsettled. and meanwhile, and we'll talk about this later on, they're really settling up on the republican side. you guys got yourself a joint fund-raising agreement, which is like let's play ball, baby! that's, like, everyone's excited. >> three months later than last time. up next, the first general election ad from hillary clinton's super pac and trump's response. stay with us.
you know, you can see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming
out of her wherever. does she have a good body? no. does she have a fat ass? absolutely. you like girls that are 5'1", they come up to you where? if ivanka weren't my daughter, perhaps i'd be dating her. >> i find a person who is flat-chested very hard to be a 10. and you can tell them to go [ bleep ] themselves. >> does donald trump really speak for you? priorities usa action is responsible for the content of this advertising. >> welcome to the general election or at least a preview of what the general election could look like courtesy of priorities usa, a super pac supporting hillary clinton. still with us, tara, ben, liz, kasey. i think that add is interesting for a number of reasons. the first is casey, you made the point that hillary clinton has two opponents. but priorities usa does not. >> exactly. >> priorities usa is not
unsettled in any way. they have more money, right? they can just start going to town. this is the beauty of the super pac. >> they apparently have. it's interesting that this is the ad they started off with. there was an ad not unlike it that was run by the never trump people. didn't work. >> they never had big money behind it. >> it's also a different audience. >> much different audience. >> different audience. this is airing in swing states which is different. and also, someone i was talking to involved in this today made the point that they just have to keep trump's unfavorables with women exactly where they are. and they're fine. they don't have to change any minds. the never trump folks were trying to convince republicans to back away. all they have to do is keep, you know, 50 or 70% of women have having an unfavorable view of point, and originally they weren't going to start till after the democratic primary was functionally over, they don't want to let three weeks go by without reminding this general election audience over and over again. they also found, interestingly,
that about half of the voters that they talked to were basically unaware that donald trump had said any of these things. >> absolutely. that stuff is not well known. i've got to say that if she wasn't my daughter, i'd be dating her, whatever the context is shocks me every time. every time i hear it. and here's the other thing about this that i thought was interesting tactically. josh marshall wrote a piece on this. trump went nuts. he was on twitter all day. he cannot -- you worked the man. >> yes. >> he's not going to -- every attack he is going to -- gets under his skin. there is no such thing as an attack that he's going to let go. >> and this attack gets under his skin even more than some of the other attacks which is why he was on twitter all day because sometimes he's schizophrenic on twitter. he's attacking all types of people, but he's going to stay on this and this is very effective. i think the notion is a lot of people are around people who think like us, we talk to each other. i think people don't realize when you're working on a campaign, a lot of people do not
tune in until much closer to the race. and so people think that these things are having an impact when they absolutely are not. and i've worked on enough campaigns. you've got to hit people over and over again to cut through the noise. and this can be a repetitive ad, and it won't get too old with certain voters. >> yeah. this is a really good point, right? that people are not -- we think of people having paid a lot of attention. they have in relative sense, right, if you look at all sorts of metrics and performance particularly in terms of republican voter turnout, if you look at how much money rupert murdoch's made, but in a lot of ways, right, there's tens of millions of people who are just sort of tuning in. >> right, but will they care? that's always my question. the unfavorables, we've been talking about this poll for almost months now or two months where, you know, seven out of ten women have an unfavorable view of donald trump. at this point i think women have probably like a more favorable view of pms and yeast infections and man buns than donald trump. but will -- >> from your expertise. >> i want that poll to come out.
>> ppp if you're listening, they do that kind of thing. >> i will take it. when you speak to women who do support trump, they are able to overlook those things. and i think older women -- >> right, but no, but that's true, but there's -- okay, there's a kind of person that's a hardcore trump supporter and i find this fascinating where it's people are in one camp or another. i would find this even in reporting in the republican primaries s caucuses. you talk to someone. well, he's a businessman. he's going to straighten people out. then you talk to other people who might be more conservative or less conservative, and they would just be, like, are you kidding me? are you kidding me with this guy? it does seem like there's a certain hardenedness to people's views on the guy. >> you're ticked off and you want a disrupter, he's the guy. the question about all these tv ads is so far in the primaries, tv has been remarkably ineffective. it's an interesting strategic
tactical choice about when to spend your money, what your subject matter is and then ultimately what the effect is. >> i think they also feel like they need to actually learn exactly that. i think another reason to start earlier is to get a sense of does it have an impact? does it not so that there's time on the calendar to adjust and do something different. >> that is an excellent point because it has been surprising that the marginal return on investment of a marginal dollar of television spending has been probably the lowest it's been in memory. and we've seen that even on the democratic side, too. keep in mind state after state in which bernie sanders has outspent hillary clinton to lose. i mean, new york, he deluged her. there was a lot of ads. it did not seem to move things. >> penetrate. >> yeah. >> well, that's the issue. it's about penetration, too, when you run ads is the ability to penetrate and cut through. but i do think in this instance, i think this is a little bit different. now, i'm a big ground game person. anybody that knows me knows that's where i think that's very important for democratic party in particular. but i do think that with this ad, i think that first of all, one of the things that happened
in the primary with donald trump was that people didn't attack him at first. >> that's right. >> the republicans didn't know what to do. there was kind of rebuffing of some things. it wasn't until after people -- his support had hardened so much, that's when they started unleashing these deluge of ads. >> it was never really a deluge. >> they also had the attitude that you had, which is you've got to be kidding me. this guy's going to fall. >> i didn't have that attitude. people had that attitude. >> you described. >> no, i'm not you've got to be kidding me now as we sit six months away from election day in the most powerful country on earth. coming up, donald trump loves to say he's expanding the gop electorate. the data tells a different and really interesting story. we're going to talk about that next. do not go anywhere.
we are going to win so much more than anybody ever. we're bringing in democrats. we're bringing in independents. and really importantly, you know who we're bringing in? we're bringing in people that have never voted before. it's amazing how many there are. >> republican primaries, donald trump has pointed to record turnout as evidence he's expanding the gop electorate. new analysis out today from politico shows there may not be that much to support that specific claim. still with me, tara, ben, liz and kasie. just the latest, 12:22 a.m., tweet from donald trump, paul begala has knowingly committed
fraud in his first ad against me. maybe he's watching us because we just played that ad. it's pretty clear he gets 99% of his information from watching cable news, which, well -- cable news is fine, but you should read some stuff. >> this is your life. >> this is my life, but i also like to read things which would be an important if you're president of the united states of america. >> meet the guy who thinks he's secretary of the trump administration right here. >> basically here's the idea behind the politico analysis which i think is important. basically there are a bunch of new voters, but they were not new voters, these are people who were reliably voting in the general who are new to the primary process. ergo, it's not creating a larger electorate. you're dubious. >> i'm dubious because what he did show is he got more interest in the primary process. there are a lot of very low propensity voters. turnout in presidential election is still only about 53% which
means you've got a huge number of people who have not -- who don't vote for every presidential election. he's gotten more people involved in the primary. that you would call a good sign. >> right. >> under any circumstances. >> that said, tara, someone who has worked in politics, changing voter behavior is very hard. i mean, like, it is, of course, been a dream. it's a perennial dream of progress i have been ives and f left. when youalk about 53%, you think oh, my god. particularly when you look at income numbers, the poorest voted at the lowest level, just turns out to be super hard to do that. >> it is very hard. that's why we see midterm after midterm, that's part of why the democrats take some shellacking in these midterms because it's very hard to motivate people. i will say this. it's also the responsibility of the parties to do a better job of keeping people engaged during those times. that's also another issue. i would say this. when you work on a campaign, you target voters. and the first group of voters
that you target -- >> the reliables. >> right? and so that makes sense because you want them to come out and vote for you. but then the next group you do start to go down the line. so him having brought out some of these voters who are lower propensity, i mean, it can't hurt. it can only help. but i just don't see it as having been as big as what it's being made out to be. >> look, i think the clinton campaign is expecting him to turn out new voters in places that they maybe are not even prepared for yet. and the rnc, we've seen, is already kind of miningity o its data to try to figure out who they may have identified as low propensity who are going to show up for trump. >> on the other side, liz, the democrats are going to run a huge experiment here, which is can you keep the obama coalition at its presidential turnout levels without barack obama on the ballot, which the party has never done before. >> but with donald trump. >> right, right. >> so study after study shows that really what drives people to go vote is not what they want
to for but who they want to be vote against, and who better to be that than donald trump. >> or hillary clinton. for republicans, absolutely. >> possibly. >> i'm sorry, go ahead. >> no, go ahead. >> i did a focus group with republican women. >> i saw that, yeah. >> mondaywe had three younger w one of whom was on the fence and two who already were saying not just that they were supporting hillary clinton, but they were saying things to me like she is the safe choice. she is experienced. i know what i'm going to get from hillary clinton. all of the arguments that fit right into, you know, the ones the clinton campaign's already started to make, that donald trump is a risky choice. i was just surprised that these women -- you know, they had worked around republican politics. it was really quite startling. >> let me also say to liz's point is, look. someone who dominates attention the way donald trump is, there is no way this campaign doesn't end up a referendum on him. there's no way. as much as republicans despise hillary clinton and they think she's sort of this evil figure who's been scheming for 30 years, you know, donald trump,
it will be a referendum on donald trump. i don't see it not being. >> hillary clinton has the resume that everyone in the establishment drools over. donald trump is the disrupter. bernie sanders is still in the primary. donald trump is the nominee. it's a year of disrupters. >> well, that may be true, but that's still ultimately referendum on him. you see what i'm saying? if they win, it is a win because he is embraced as that. >> i believe there will be an incredibly negative campaign with -- >> the most negative ever, yes. >> -- with people on both sides voting against. >> that is going to be where we end up. it will be about 90% unfavorables by that time we all go to the polls. >> did you see that obituary in "the richmond times"? >> yes. >> i've got to say, who writes that? thanks to my panel, tara, liz, kasie and ben. we're not going anywhere. we're just getting started here in the early hours of this wednesday.
donald trump is hiring a pollster which might be an unremarkable action by the presumptive presidential nominee of a major political party except it is trump who said this back in august. >> i don't have pollsters. i don't want to waste money on pollsters because, you know, i don't want to be unreal. i want to be me. i have to be me. you know, we have enough of that in washington with pollsters telling everybody what to say. >> quote, i don't have pollsters. i don't want to waste money to pollsters, end quote. trump campaign will hire tony fabrizio according to a trump campaign source. joining me now, msnbc contributor josh barrow, katherine, opinion editor for
"the washington post," and michelle bernard, president bernard center for women. you've got a whole panoply of, like, all of the institutional stuff that comes with being the republican nominee now happening. and it's happening, as far as i can tell, at light speed. they signed a joint fund-raising agreement today. this is a structure by which the parties and the national party are going to raise money together. this is trump speaking about his financial regulation platform. i love this. this is -- i would say it will be close to a dismantling of dodd/frank, a very negative force that has developed a bad name. here's the way i see it. the guy runs for a year basically giving the proverbial finger to whole parts of donor class orthodoxy of the republican party. and also saying i'm self-funding. i'm not a puppet like these people. so i can say trade is bad, yada yada. now we sign it, now it's, like, dodd/frank, man. >> the best way to prove you're not a puppet is to do exactly
what wall street wants. >> exactly right. this is a really interesting moment to test this question, right? because there is a huge thing throughout this campaign, money in politics, it doesn't matter as much as everyone said. well, we'll see now. the guy's got to raise money. does it change what he runs on? >> i remember back in the 2012 campaign when mitt romney said we'll shake the etch-a-sketch after the primary. that's donald trump's total theory. >> day to day. >> from day to day whatever the person who's listening to him wants to hear and now he's in the phase where he has to raise a bunch of money from wall street and say dodd/frank is terrible. first of all, donald trump probably has no idea what's in dodd/frank. when he says i'll dismantle most of it. that means he has no idea which parts he's going to get rid of. i was in this conference in las vegas with all these hedge funders. >> which sounds fun and also terrifying. continue. >> yeah, it was super weird. some of these people are getting used to this idea.
>> of course they are. >> donald trump will have to convince them that his agenda is going to be good for wall street. >> totally. >> you can't really trust donald trump. but these people really want to believe him because they really don't like hillary clinton. zoo they need to convince themselves. >> they need to convince themselves. >> he is a good enough salesman that he has given people enough of things they want to be convinced of. >> i would not assume that he's just going to tailor make whatever new policy he dreams up or someone dreams up for him in the next two weeks is not going to necessarily be a wall street wish list or a donor class wish list because he's going after bernie sanders voters right now. that is what he's doing. and he doesn't need anybody that much right now. >> that i disagree with. he's got to raise half a billion dollars. >> he doesn't have to raise. >> they've all got to raise. they need that money. >> i think that the deal with the pollster is donald trump wants to make sure that he doesn't lose florida. you know, everybody says that this pollster is a genius, and that's the key to winning florida. but the catch-22 for donald
trump, then, is if he is going to be so supportive of wall street, okay. >> sorry. >> but if he's going to be this supportive of wall street, you know, and get rid of the very bad dodd/frank, assuming he knows what is bad about dodd/thank, how do you continue to square that with the masses of people who feel that the economy has been so bad for them that they are unemployed, that the world is against them and that is their reason to vote for donald trump. >> caring about dodd/frank one way or the other. >> only the people at the las vegas conference. >> on the tip of anyone's tongue. >> that's not true. sanders voters care about it. but let me say this. >> enough to maybe even want to scrap it. >> they care about banks. let me say this. we are seeing right now there is a very active negotiation happening between paul ryan and donald trump's camps. it's precisely the terrain of the ryan budget. it's the what are you going to do about entitlements? it's all the stuff that makes the republican party at its intellectual level of the republican party, the whole
domestic policy agenda, they want him to sign on to that. >> he's going to. >> i think his thesis is he doesn't have to choose. >> that's exactly right. that's exactly right. >> and he's he so far has been able to make this work where he can go to one group and say i'm going to roll back dodd/thank and make it all sound convincing at the same time. >> and his whole point has been anything that he says, it's just an idea. >> my favorite -- >> a suggestion. >> it's a suggestion. i might do it. i might not. >> my two favorite clips of the campaign is one, him in front of the ethanol conference in iowa where he literally picked up a statement and read to them his ethanol pandering and was, like, that's what you want to hear, right? that's what you like? then also when he was at liberty university when he read, you know, the infamous 2 corinthians. he read a bible verse that talked about liberties. that's the one you like, right? he -- the guy is nothing if not the most shameless panderer in the world. so he is going to -- that's why i love the idea of seeing him in
pandering to donor class mode which we haven't seen yet because that's the most shameless category of pandering that exists. >> not traditional category. >> the same guy who's not a big fan of the carried interest thing in the way that every republican -- >> go by the wayside. >> yeah. it's a predictive question, right? do you think that's going to stay? >> sure. i don't think he has -- i don't think he has that much motivation to go against it. and i think he is going to still -- >> you think he will come out against it still. >> he's going to try to keep enough populism open, right? >> he has to. i think what will end up happening if we see him pandering to the donor class or the quote, unquote, donor class, he's going to look stiff. he's going to look like that foreign policy speech that he gave with the teleprompters. he will be a fish out of water. i don't think we're goingo see that too much of him. >> i'm interested by the pollster hire because i think he was right back last summer when he said he didn't need a pollster. >> he was correct. and he probably would have been hurt if he listened to them. >> right. just because he had a great intuitive sense of republican primary voters doesn't mean he doesn't have a great sense of the general election.
>> exactly. >> the most dangerous thing for him, if you were advising him is, he has, i think, got this incredibly good ear for what the republican crowd wants to hear. right? and it's a very specific crowd. >> he responds to the cheering. >> yeah the people in those rallies. i know someone was talking to his campaign, he looks at facebook comments all the time. that is how he's focus grouping everything. that is not america. that is not the 130 million people that will vote. the reason you hire a data operation is precisely because you can't just figure that out by, like, based on your ear and facebook comments. >> or listening to talk radio. you know, he's got to reach -- >> or watching cable news. >> -- out to that great middle. well, he's got to watch your program. >> we said the guy watches a whole lot of cable news. this was another interesting poll to me today. who do you trust to lead the gop? did you see this poll? donald trump, 58%. paul ryan, 39%. luke russert asked ryan about it. he said my god, i would hope that he's most trusted. those numbers are meaningful to me insofar as the degree to which it is his party now.
>> there is no elite. there's no leader from which anyone is rallying behind. there is no adult in the room. people sort of fantasize that paul ryan is that guy. what's happening right now is bill kristol is on twitter saying registering -- >> you or else. >> saying please, someone run. they're so hopeless. the whole never trump thing is one of the most pathetic -- and i identify with them on some level in their critique of donald trump, but as a strategic entity, oh, my god. >> my favorite thing that happened on twitter today was one of sanders digital team registered renegade party.org and then it just linked to an old bill kristol tweet saying that, like, trump won't win any primaries and any delegates. wah, wah, wah. up next, donald trump may have just picked up the most important endorsement of his campaign. that is after the break.
it looks like fox news has decided to embrace donald trump. fox news founder rupert murdoch had been critical of him early in the campaign, but now according to gabe sherman from the "new york" magazine, he signalled he plans to back him in the general election against hillary clinton. if you want evidence of that that like that, consider the interview that megyn kelly did with trump, despite retweeting
that he called her a bimbo. >> did i say that? >> many times. >> >> okay. excuse me. >> where -- >> not the most horrible thing. you know, again politically. not the most over your life ---ing men, you have called been a lot worse. >> now that you have my cell phone number. and you promised you won't use it for evil? >> i promise. you'll never see that. >> that was on the network fox news, controlled by murdoch. back with my panel. i think this is actually been sort of one of the most fascinating through lines of the campaign, has been the roger ailes/trump circling each other. it felt like a professional wrestling bit, they'll square off and then at times it felt genuine. the megyn kelly network special team -- >> love in. >> it was a total love in. struck me as it's all -- now
we're all unified. >> yeah. it's weird. right? it seemed like for megyn kelly there was a matter of personal pride a few months ago and i'm weirded out by the way she seems to have come around. >> really? >> i think it's embarrassing for her. she was attacked in ways that were like totally inappropriate and unprofessional and now for her job she's going and playing nice. i think it's weird. it -- >> well, it's good for ratings. >> a lot of people make money off that. >> like if you play devil's advocate, diplomat see the whole interview because i have been here all night, but to play devil's advocate there's something to be said for the female journalist who is willing to go back, take him on and rather than sort of running away -- >> well, it was not taking on. to me what this signalled -- to me it was the show runners of the campaign sort of wrapping up this thread, like a plot point before we enter into the next act of the plot. it was like, okay, we had the whole -- remember, we had the
whole subplot with the beef with fox news, let's wrap it up. >> i think they care about ratings going forward. they need some sort of detente, something warmer than that, and they need the ratings frankly. i think it's not about just f b finb -- finishing up yesterday's business, but how do we keep this campaign going on? >> and it was weird to take on the conservative media accompli establishment. >> with i had people -- i had trump people coming up, i'm watching you guys now because i can't trust fox. like people are saying to me, because it got so nasty at a certain point. >> there's a lot of silly conspiracy theorizing about that, people assert that murdoch has more control over fox than he actually does. roger ailes runs that network and he does not think exactly like rupert murdoch. >> no, they have different politics in many ways.
>> and a lot of different personalities in that building who have much different ideas about donald trump. i don't think we're going to see, you know, greg gutfeld reading a hostage video talking about how much he loves donald trump. >> i should reiterate this was the big network special on the network. this was on the fox network, in primetime. this not the cable fox, but the network that's in basically every television set in america. that is run ultimately -- roger ailes has nothing to do with that. that's a statement at some level about where they're at. >>ore mainstream. it was -- they gave donald trump an -- i think a fabulous opportunity in this interview to reach out to the women voters. he is scared he might possibly have lost forever. >> and who he requires to have any prayer in this election. >> absolutely. >> that's the group he needs to change their minds. >> there's the reason to do it on the network rather that on fox news channel because fox news channel he's speaking to the choir. >> i find it's a bemusing
spectacle of the cascade of all the republicans institutions and conservative movement institutions falling in line behind donald trump. because this whole idea like we should fight them everywhere, like give me a break. >> i think you should say most of the institutions, not all. he's actually behind what you would expect for a normal nominee. you have three members of the senate saying they won't support him in the general election which is small fraction of the senate, but that's three more than would be normal. even if he gets most of the institution on board its a significant -- it's a significant liability for him that there are major parts that are unwilling to lift a finger to do anything for him. >> there's the important thing too. the unwilling to lift the finger. the last four or the five of the recent nominees who won't be at the convention. even if they're not never trumpers they're sitting on their hands for the most part. you will feel that absence. >> you need almost all of your base to sum port you in the -- support you in the primary.
>> i don't think it's a big hit for trump if mitt romney isn't out stumping for him or george w. bush. >> i don't think so either, but i think it's a big hit for the republican party if we don't see more people being very vocal and saying are we so desperate as republicans to win an election that we're going to give up our morals? like i loved watching, you know, reading george wills' columns where he's said it's better to lose the election and build a better republican party than to elect a donald trump as the country's next president. like what do we stand for as a nation? and why aren't more republicans worried about this? >> the george will perspective which i guess my point is, as -- that perspective is a deeply minority perspective. >> yes. >> i think -- it's remarkable to me given the fact this is someone who has no life long affiliate with the republican party who seemingly has no interest in many of its ostensible philosophical tenets.
who doesn't seem to think very much about any of the issues, and one would think about as in public life. could this person that -- it's all sort of -- it's all sort of fallen before him in so quickly in the last three weeks. >> one thing we'll find out is how many troops national review has and george will has. >> how many divisions are at national review. >> are tethered to the people. i don't think it's that many. i think that's a real crisis of intellectual confidence and political confidence right now. a lot of the people are -- josh might back me up here. they're thinking in terms of after november. the battle is beginning right now of what happens after -- >> that's why for those people, the most cataclysmic thing is for trump to win, right? if he wins, it would be clearer, aside from the stakes for the country wing are quite high. i can talk to you about that. if trump wins the modern
republican party as it existed before, it's completely gone. >> he's alienated every group, or in aggregate numbers like women. the voter turnout group has been growing every election. he's alienated those groups and they'll continue to grow as a share of the electorate and they'll remember. >> well, that's why an interesting figure in this, i was reading a postmortem about ted cruz. he is in a really interesting position right now about how he's going to position himself for 2020 and sort of after the fall narrative. a lot is going come down to whether he does or does not publicly endorse him. which is interesting to watch. thanks for staying up with me tonight. all right, that does it for me. you can catch today -- right, catch me at 4:00 today. today.
it's wednesday, may 18th. right now on "first look," bernie takes oregon and could call for a recount in kentucky. as hillary clinton is now less than 100 delegates from the magic number. donald trump and megyn kelly bury the hatchet as the gop front-runner says the journalist has been called war force than a bimbo. the obama administration is about to give millions of working american pace raise. plus, a massive explosion and fire strikes a busy new york commuter line. the tsa gets serious about airport lines but will anything change? having fun in 109 mile per hour winds. "first look" starts right now. good wedne