tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC May 19, 2016 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT
tonight u.s. and french intelligence are comparing passengers to known -- key to what happened. conferrings between the flight crew and any alarms or sounds or explosions. the flight data recorder should contain thousands of pieces of data. british citizen richard ozmond was on board, his brother, richard allister. >> i never expected to wake up to this. >> reporter: back live here in paris, i'm joined by my friend and colleague laura hanes, she's the continue for the airline
here. it would be nice to see you under better circumstances. let's start with the climate right now in paris, we know that the plane itself took off just after 11:00 local time wednesday, but i know you have some information on what the french police had to do with this? >> you had a lot of demonstrations against the police in paris. two days ago a police department was burned. and the people are angry, we la. what's happening with the plane, we don't know what happened with the plane, but this was a very important moment because the police were saying we can't go to the airports and we cannot protect the planes.
>> let's talk about the latest announcement, that the french president would be leading the investigation to a certain extent. what are you hear? i know you've got a lot of sources here in this country, at which point do they feel like this is probably terrorism? >> they feel it, but of course, they're not sure, they're really looking at every possibility. at this moment francois hollande really wants to have all elements that the egyptians know, this is a very important element. the other element is they know who was on the plane, there was saudis on the plane, three men were on the plane to protect someone. who was this person.
they other also looking at a man who was an iraqi person, so they're looking at really the nationality and the job of the passengers in the plane. >> of the 55 passengers who were on board, we're told the lion's share of them were from egypt. 15 from your country, you mentioned three people who were on board to provide security of some sort, is that customary? >> apparently this flight for egyptair was a sensitive flight, and people i smoke wipoke with know what did the egyptians know? why did they put three men in the plane. >> thank you for staying up so very late here in paris. i want to bring in john goulia now, a former ntsb agent.
at this point what do we know that the pilots did in the last moments here? we were sold that there were some sudden turns, 90-degree turns before that plane plummeted to 30,000 feet, to 10,000 feet, where they lost contact with radar. what does that information alone tell you? >> we know it had to be a catastrophic event, whether it was computers going haywire, the human element. we have had pilots who made wro wrong entries into the computer that caused problems. how do we know from the radar that the airplane made those turns? part of me says that the engines must have been running, we must
have had electrical power to the transponder and the trance ponder was sending information back to the radar, so if that's the case and the engines were running and we had electrical power, why didn't we get a broadcast from the crew and it would also indicate that maybe we lost control, maybe we lost the vertical fin, if you don't have the vertical fin, the airplane doesn't point straight ahead any longer. there's just so many questions that won't be answered until we have fiphysical evidence. >> if this plane did explode, john, what kind of evidence would investigators be looking for in the wreckage, assuming they find some wreckage in the mediterranean? >> just like we did in the
sinai, the metal doesn't lie, if they used the same m.o. and put the explosive in the tail of the airplane, the tail is the most vulnerable. we will see the blowout of the tail, that no, sirforced the pi this plane. we'll see bits and pieces on the interior of the airline, the seats, and also if we recover bodies, the bodies will be examined looking for residue and other telltale signs of a blast? >> how optimistic are you that they are going to be able to recover some wreckage? >> the black box and the fligs
enough information on them that we could be able to make a determination. i hope they have already started -- i hope they have already started to look for them. because as we know, we only have 30 days on the pinger, and here we are, we're already approaching the second day. >> i was just going to ask you that, we all became very familiar with the pinger in the wake of that malaysia air flight. john, thank you so much, i appreciate you. >> we'll take a quick break here, when we come back here live from france, we'll take a look at what happened today, what it means for politics, what it means for national security implications, we'll take a look at that plus more reaction from here in paris right after this.
>> i want to express my condolences to egypt and to all the countries impacted this morning by the egyptair flight over the mediterranean. >> secretary of state john kerry offering the condolences of the united states of america, when we come back, were they expecting something like this in france? we'll dig into that and what donald trump and hillary clinton said about today's plane crash, we'll talk about that right after this. systems. it recognizes pedestrians and alerts you. warns you about incoming cross-traffic. cameras and radar detect dangers you don't. and it can even stop by itself. so in this crash test, one thing's missing: a crash. the 2016 e-class. lease the e350 for $499 a month at your local
when egyptair flight 804 went down, it went down amid heightened terror alert in this part of the world. we'll talk about this with laura haim, and also arthur lang. laura, let me start with you, is this something that officials in this country were expecting? >> yes, they were can'ting some terror to happen since the brussels airport attacks. again, we don't know what happened, we have to re-enforce that we really don't know if it's a terrorist attack, but the french officers in the past two weeks were telling people, something might happen, be careful, we're all careful, they
have the least of targets in france and egyptair has had a lot of problems in the last year, there was the one that involved the plane -- >> october of last year. >> and there was also someone who tried to hijack an egypta egyptairplane in the last few months. because egypt and france were the ones that were expecting a strike. >> it did not take too long for the two presidential front runners to weigh in on what happened just off the coast of egypt. i want to play for our viewers and our listeners at home, donald trump's response and hillary clinton's response to all this, take a listen. >> that are provocative, that actually make the important task of building this coalition, bringing everybody to the table
to defeat terrorism more difficult. >> why? >> because when he says bar all muslims from coming to the united states, that sends a signal to many muslim nations, many of whom we have to work with to defeat terrorism, some of them are already our strongestron strongest allies in this fight. it's a sign of disrespect. >> what just happened 12 hours ago that got blown out of the sky. if you don't think it was blown out of the sky, you're wrong, okay? >> there's been no official word on whether the plane was in fact when out of the sky. but let's talk about those two responses, what can we glean from those two responses. >> the other thing that was cn' in the clip that you played, was
that how hillary clinton responded, to marshall with our allies and partners, to go about orchestrating a response to hold the people who orchestrated is attack to account. she highlighted the fact that we don't know what happened. on the other side, we had donald trump step out and make some interesting claims that he knew that it was a terror attack anyone who didn't realize that was an idiot. this was really unpresidential. and the question is do you want a commander in chief who's going to jump to a conclusion like this before everything plays out. what you saw in secretary clinton's response was someone who was acting like a security professional. >> all of this coming just a week or so after both of them, again, a function of being the
presumptive nominees at this point, they'll start receiving their pentagon briefings, national security briefings that's similar to what the president of the united states gets. >> those here who are looking at the islamic state are looking is -- the french sources, the french intelligence also are telling us that libya is a very sensitive country, the islamic states, is now an infrastructure in libya, part of libya, are dominated by the islamic state and they believe that if it was a terrorist attack, the symbol of the preseason was carefully chosen. why? the plane was coming from first, you know that france has been hit by the islamic state, and then egypt, it's something that
the islamic state does not want, and libya has this war with egypt. and investigations at this moment and the french intelligence, it could have been the perfect target, if it's confirmed that it's a terrorist attack. >> and again i think we should continue to drive this point home, again, it's very early in the investigation, we don't know whether this was something that was terrorist related, although a number of officials have indicated they do believe it is. if it does turn out to be terror, if it does turn out to be another isis attack, what then does that mean for us in the united states of america, with regards to policy? >> there are a couple of issues, simply from a homeland protection issue, it's going to be very easy to figure out, if it turns out to be a bomb, where was the bomb loaded in was the bomb loaded in tunisia, which
has sent more than 6,000 foreign fighters to syria, or was it loaded in paris? and if it was loaded in paris, we have to take a hard look at what's happened here, because if memory serves, i don't think we have had a bomb placed out of a european capital since lockerbie, and that would be a significant break in security. >> harden, thank you, laura a big thanks to you as well, it's approaching 5:30 here in paris behind me, the sun starting to rise over the charles de gaulle information airport, as the sun rises here, the sun also rises above the mediterranean sea as well. when that happens, the search effort will continue. they're trying to find -- trying to find egyptair, flight 804. lots more here on msnbc here after a quick break. ♪
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pete williams with a look at that. >> reporter: passenger lines were longer and slower in atlanta, but moving better notingly better in chicago. passengers saying that the elipt -- >> especially when you're flying overseas, it's really scary. >> authorities in los angeles say they stepped up security as a precaution. homeland security has done more to check flights bound from overskaes. but some security experts say more could be done to further protect air travel at home. one suggestion for dealing with potential insider threats, screening airport employees who have access to planes, checking their backgrounds before handing bags.
>> introduce random security measures for employees so they don't know what's going to happen day to day. >> reporter: the system now relies in part on screening by known and thrusted shippers. tsa says it's improving the ability to -- who have made developing such bombs a priority. u.s. officials say tonight until the cause of the egyptair crash is known, it is impossible to say what measures will be updated here at home. >> pete williams for us at reagan national in northern virginia. seth kaplan is a commercial aviation expert, he is also a managing partner of airline weekly, what kind of security
procedures would have been performed on this particular plane in addition to the obvious? >> yeah, i mean, it would have gotten a sweep in paris, but nothing necessarily all that extensive. you know, nothing that might have detected, you know, if there was a device bought aboard the plane, whether it was in tunisia or in cairo, and hidden somewhere, yeah, you know, that's not really going to be detected. what has changed, for example, since lockerbie, in that case you had a bomb that was by all appearances placed aboard in malta, changed planes in frankfurt and wasn't caught during screening. if you had a bag changing planes these days probably would be caught. but that would be unlikely to happen here because you would have bags connecting on to this flight, just the way the tickets
would have been sold, it's out and back from cairo in this case, and so, yeah, the best guest and that's really all it is at this point craig, is that it would be brought aboard somewhere, you know if it was somewhere else and not caught. >> you mentioned indonesia and that's important to this conversation, because that is where this plane had spent time in the 24 or 48 hours prior to the flight from here, charles de gaulle to cairo, and we know that that part of the world over the past few years has a hot bed for terrorism at airports in that part of the world, specifically. if there was some sort of breach here in charles de gaulle, what would that mean for international airport security, what would that mean going forward? >> the impact, craig, would be
huge, you know, again, if you're just sort of trying to say, well, what's the best guess here? the reason that it was put aboard somewhere else is somewhat incredible, but you can construct a case about why they would target egyptair, if you can penetrate security at de gaulle, there are some higher priority targets, so that's why at this early stage, your mind kind of goes that it might have been brought aboard somewhere else. but if they penetrated the security there at paris, you heard people talking about it, better screening of airport workers and things. but for all this talk about airport security, when you think about plots that have succeeded and failed, over the past decade
and a half beginning with 9/11, almost always, it kind of has to do with intelligence, than it does with airport security, 9/11, all we do in response to 9/11 at the airports, that was primarily an intelligence failure. those box cutters that got through, those were legal on that day. but it was more about people who were interested in learning how to fly planes but not land them. it was nothing that was caught at heathrow, it was infiltrating those cells. so it's always a combination of, yes, tighter airport security, and on the other hand most recently brussels too a failure by all appearances of agencies not doing perhaps their best in sharing information. >> seth kaplan, we will have to leave it there, sir, thank you so much for your time and your insight. >> thank you, craig.
when we come back here, we'll reset things, we'll get you caught up with the very latest on the investigation, we'll also take a look at the black box and why that so-called black box will be very important to this investigation here. and we'll also hear from a pilot, this is msnbc. we'll be right back. hassle? not with safelite. this family needed their windshield replaced, but they're daughters heart was set on going to the zoo. so we said if you need safelite to come to the zoo we'll come to the zoo! only safelite can fix your windshield anywhere in the us. with our exclusive mobileglassshops. and our e of a kind trueseal technology, for a reliable bond. service that fits your schedule. that's another safelite advantage. ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ >>psst. hey... where you going? we've got that thing! you know...diarrhea? abdominal pain? but we said we'd be there...
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we're told there's folks that are trying to get some answers from officials and so far, officials don't have a whole lot to give them, all they know at this point is that this plane took off just after 11:00 p.m. wednesday night, that plane went down about 175 miles from the egyptian border. it lost contact at about 15,000 feet with air traffic control. but before that there had been reportedly no signs of distress. my colleague joe fryer in london standing by to bring us up to speed. >> with the sun starting to rise right now in the area where this plane disappeared, we know that a full scale search will be getting under way. we're now well past this 24-hour
mark from when this plane disappeared, and while there were some initial reports that the wreckage had been found a few hours later, we learned that that wreckage was not from an aircraft. the egyptair took off from de gaulle airport, the egyptian radar saw the plane drop to 10,000 feet before the aircraft was lost. data including some infrared images do suggest there was some sort of explosion aboard the plane, but no idea what would have caused it. and even egyptian officials have come out and said that the
possibility of an terrorism attack is more credible than a technical problem. but there's no explanation for what possibility happened at this point. 66 on board, 56 of them were passengers, three of them children and 10 who were parol of the airline security. >> joe fryer for us in london. let's get to ckerrey sanders, w have spent some time talking about these so-called black boxes and you have one there, and the role that that thing plays in an investigation like this can not be overstated? >> every aircraft has this. the modern airbus, this is called a black box even though it's orange, and one is in the airplane and it's recording the voice of what's going on, the
other one is the data recorder, getting all the data of the aircraft, it records all of the speed of the engine, the heat of the engines, everything that's going on in the airplane is recorded. and then of course the voice, the reason the voice might be interesting is that if somebody were able to compromise the door, get into the cockpit, that conversation in there would have been recorded on here. finding this, however is difficult. remember, it appears that this plane has gone down in the area of the mediterranean, where the ships have been moving into to search for debris, no debris has been found, or confirmed debris has been found. but something like this which weighs quite a bit, likely has gone down in the mediterranean. so the area we're talking about is a mile to two miles deep. there's a pinger in here, that
sends out a signal, when you go down below, a mile to two more, you're talking about temperatures that are around 38 degrees, which means that the battery begins to lose some of its power, just the colder temperatures take the energy from the battery out. which means it might last a month, whereas on the surface, if it was just on land, it could last up to 90 days. finding this however is a critical piece of information. now one of the ways the united states is trying to help find it is a p-3 orion, as the aircraft goes over the region, it will drop little sonar buoy, will come down on parachutes and hit the water and send out information to see if they can pick up any debris. the problem is the plane doesn't tell you specifically what kind of debris there is, and if
you've been in the mediterranean, as i have, there's a fair a.mount of garbae floating out there, and this can pick up debris, but it won't tell us what sort of debris it is. and the effort to find the black boxes, the one thing to remember here and joe kind of referred to this, is what we want to know is what happened. at this point, while they're still calling ate search and rescue, the likelihood of anybody falling out of the sky at 30,000 feet and surviving is small, but with this equipment that does what it's called a persistent stare, the eye never blinks, with infrared to sound waves, all of that seems to suggest that there was some sort of explosion, that can't answer the question of whether this was a mechanical failure or whether
it was a terrorist attack, but it does suggest that there was indeed an explosion, a catastrophic one, as we now know. craig craig? >> kerry sanders in washington, d.c. with a look at those black boxes. and let's talk a little bit about communication between the pilot and air traffic control. when you go from one air space to another air space, what does that communication look like? >> when you're taking off from one country to another, you're always in communication with either agency. there may be times when you pay be five to ten minutes when
you're not talking to anybody because there's no information that needs to be passed and it's usually the controllers that communicate information to the pilots. >> we should know that it's very early in the investigation, but one of the things we have been told is that before the pilot hit 10,000 feet, everything seemed to be fine, communication with air traffic control seemed to be going just fine. how long would a pilot go without communicating with air traffic control or the equivalent in another country, how long would that pilot go before a red flag would be raised? >> usually the most i have ever seen is maybe 10, 15 minutes of quiet time between controller and the figpilot. but usually, you're going through air space, other people's area and then they'll advise you to switch and talk to
another country's controller, or you may be talking to the same country's controller and that's when you switch. when a controller tries to call a pilot and he's not responding, they continue trying. it's very rare that the pilot has trouble contacting the controllers. >> reportedly, there was this sharp 90 degree turn, at this point we're not sure whether that turn was made before the descent or after. can we glean anything from that sharp right turn? do commercial pilots ever do something like that? >> in general, no, pilots are very concerned got how to control the aircraft, for the passengers in the back, you want to make it as safe and comfortable for the passengers.
he may have had a malfunction that caused the airplane to start turning, if it was a bomb going off or managsomething hapg in the back of the aircraft, that alone with the depressurization, but for an airline pilot to make a hard sharp turn, there's no reason, unless you have something that's pushing the aircraft one way and you' ee're trying to correct it. when we come back, after a quick break, what all of this means for airline security, here in paris, in egypt and in the united states of america. this is msnbc.
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>> regarding flight 804, i have been getting updates throughout the day. we do not now know what happened. we will withhold judgment until we have a all the facts. but i think the thoughts of the whole house are with the families that were on board. >> house speaker paul ryan earlier today, when we come back here, live from charles de gaulle international airport, what's happening in europe with airline security. that come from pets, pollen and dust. just one claritin provides 24-hour relief of symptoms that can be triggered by over 200 allergens. yeah, over 200 allergens! with claritin, she's not focused on her allergy symptoms. she's focused on winning. with powerful, 24-hour, non-drowsy claritin, my allergies don't come between me and victory. live claritin clear.
explanation for the missing plane including a bomb. concern growing globally. >> we have seen a desire on the part of extremists around the world, including some extremists in the middle east to carry out attacks targeting the international aviation system. >> reporter: egypt is a prime target, last year isis brought down a passenger plane in egypt, with 224 on board, a russian jet, bombed say isis, with explosiveses in a soda can. >> you don't need a lot of explosiveses, the airline is at a high enough altitude. >> three months ago it was a computer lap top that blew up. security cameras capturing airport workers handing him the bomb in the deparking lot chur
lounge. from pan am 103 that exploded over lockerbie, 9/11, and plots to smuggle bombs on board, in clothing, luck quids, anything. >> when a terrorist group goes after an airliner, it ends up being a major news story for weeks at a time. >> reporter: in brussels it was the airport itself that was targeted. in france, the security passes of 70 airport workers were withdrawn because they had islamic links. >> reporter: and i would stress, there's been no proof it was a bomb, there's been no claim of responsibility by isis, and remember after the brussels attack they were quick to claim responsibility for that attack. as ever, unanswered questions.
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stops, tunisia, it also stopped in brussels as welt. mike e. kay is a retired mill tire officer. and a retired airline pilot. michael, what can we get from you, what do you lean -- >> what we're looking at craig is the nature of globalization and terrorism has existed for many decades, but terrorism underpined by globalization hasn't. and that's what we're kind of struggling with here, as we ameliorate all of the risks associated with international travel. you can look at this pro activably or reactively. in terms of atsb, a gps based system, that supports radar, but will be autonomous.
there's the live streaming that people talk about, that is going to be something that's going to be hugely expensive so the companies are veering away from that. but the key thing for me is looking really at the reactive time of it. it was four hours before they actually launched any form of search and rescue operation. and when you're looking at things like egyptair, you're talking about the flight regions, when you're talking about going into greek air space, it's really international air space, but greek owns it in terms of military aircraft. i think when we're talking about this, we have to sort of, the faa should be driving these scenarios and conducting these scenarios, especially when aircraft are on handovers, because that's when the vacuum of information occurs.
it's not ju it's. >> how good is, from a pilot's perspecti perspective, how good is international cooperation between countries? >> it is very well, it works like a clock, there are thousands of flights every day, every hour of the day, crossing these firs, flight information regions into other countries, and it usually works perfectably. and this handoff from athena control to cairo control, would have been very routine, athena control, which is athens area, would tell cairo control to switch over to a different frequency. and this was not the case of miscommunication, or lack of
communication between two authorities, which is athena control and cairo. something happened to that aircraft that could not communicate with the next sector, which would have come very closely afterwards and shortly after that, they would have started their descent. >> ross, aimer, mike e. kay, i wish we had more time, but that's going to do it for this hour, and thanks for your time and thanks to you for watching and listening. we're going to continue our coverage on msnbc as we try and find out what happened to egypt air flight 804, it went missing as it was approaching egyptian air space, it was inside egyptian air space, almost 200 miles from egypt. it left from here, charles de
gaulle international airport just after 11:00 wednesday night, 66 souls on board, three of them were children. the lion's share were from egypt, 15 from france, no americans were on board. we'll continue our special coverage in just a bit, this is msnbc. the thing that we're covering tonight obviously is the major story, not only in the united states, but around the globe, about this crash of this egypt air flight. in the last year. there have been two instances where islamist terror groups have claimed credit for exploding a bomb on board a passenger plane. this one wasa-320 plane. this plane was bombed on february 2 of this year, there were 81 people on board. .