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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  May 20, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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it was really nice to meet you. thank you for being here. >> thank you very much. >> yay! we'll send you your stuff. if you want to play to win more or less awesome stuff that we find in our offices, please send us an e-mail. that's our real e-mail address. it works. tell us who you are, where you're from, why you want to play the news dump. and don't go anywhere, because here comes chris matthews and "hardball". >> urban cowboy! let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. on guns and terror, donald trump spent the day chasing the cowboy soul of the republican party. he spoke at the nra's national forum this afternoon and picked up the national group's endorsement. he said hillary clinton wants to take people's guns away from them and abolish the second amendment. >> the second amendment is under
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a threat like never before. crooked hillary clinton is the most anti-gun, anti-second amendment candidate ever to run for office and as i said before, she wants to abolish the second amendment. she wants to take your guns away. hillary wants to disarm vulnerable americans in high-crime neighborhoods. whether it's a young single mom in florida or a grandmother in ohio, hillary wants them to be defenseless. she wants to take away any chance they have of survival. hillary has pledged to issue new anti-gun executive orders. you know that. this is the behavior -- i mean, you could say, of a dictator. this is the behavior of somebody, frankly, i think that doesn't know what she's doing. she's not equipped to be president in so many different ways. >> well, mr. trump spent the morning knocking hillary clinton and sounding tough on isis. he tweeted, quote, crooked
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hillary clinton looks presidential? i don't think so. four more years of obama and our country will never come back. isis laughs. and more. "crooked hillary has zero imagination and even more stamina. isis, china, russia and all would love for her to be president. four more years." anyway, trump said president obama and hillary clinton's response to terrorism has been too politically correct. here he is. >> we can be politically correct. we can be nice. we can't afford to be so nice and so foolish anymore. our country is in trouble. isis is laughing at us. we cannot continue to let things like this happen. we are being taken advantage of by radical islamic terrorists and we are -- this world is changing. and another couple of planes go down, mika, and you're going to have a depression worldwide, the likes of which you've never seen. because nobody is going to travel and i will tell you, four more years of a weak hillary clinton, and that's what she is, four more years of that, it will not work. it will not work.
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>> robert costa is national political reporter for "the washington post" and an msnbc political analyst. howard fineman, of course, is global editorial director for "the washington post" and an msnbc political analyst, and my colleague, joy reid, is an msnbc anchor. anyway, thank you all. >> that trumps -- >> howard, i always like the people that are right the in front of me. howard, it seems to me he's fought with the neocons, fought with the establishment, beat them all, but there's a soul in the republican party. he's going for that guy, probably a male, probably a white male, who lives somewhere in michigan, pennsylvania, that industrial part of the country, in addition to the appalachian area, guns. if you're for guns, start at the mississippi river and go out to the edge of california and you've got gun people. but he's picking up the east coast of that. michigan, pennsylvania, kentucky, wisconsin. he looks like he's -- this looks like strategy to me. and he got their endorsement today. the gun folks. >> we're both from pennsylvania and we know guns are big in pennsylvania. not only because of guns, per
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se. not only because people hunt deer and so forth in the area between pittsburgh and philadelphia, but because it's symbolic of something. >> who was the last all-out liberal democratic senator from pennsylvania? joe clark, beat nn 'en in '68 o gun issue. >> but it's not just the guns themselves, it's what the guns symbol to people he's appealing to. the idea of frontier idealism, that we're not relying on the government for protection. it's a symbolic then. and yes, it's men, mostly, and yes, it's white, mostly, but that's how -- if trump is going to have a chance in the states you're mentioning, he's going to have to draw hugely from those kinds of voters. and they're frankly going after them, and that's what this is about. >> and joy, you know, it's not so much an argument, because hillary clinton has been pretty clear. she's been pushing gun safety. and i was watching her about a month or so ago, and i said, my god, you're taking a chance here being so strong on gun safety. i know it's just the loopholes. i know it's just the gun shows and stuff like that. but to the people who are second amendment people, it's a threat
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to them. they take it. anyway, i think she staked out a very strong position on gun safety and now she's got to deal with the results. >> and in running against bernie sanders, of course, bernie sanders has a position on guns that is closer to the nra, more friendly to them and hillary clinton has been using that to get to his left on an issue. but you have to remember, they're speaking to two completely different audiences. trump is what i call getting to zero. he's doubling down on the kinds of voters that are already republicans, consolidating all of the different boxes he needs to take on the republican party basis, under himself, providing the no alternatives. he's with everybody. he's with the evangelicals, with the gun folks. hillary clinton's a little different. she's going to be tomorrow with the mother of trayvon martin in florida and she's going after a different kind of voter, the suburban, particularly the suburban woman, who is concerned about gun safety. who is looking at something like sandy hook and saying, that's a horror that we need to do something about and the more than 70% of americans, especially in the suburbs, and people of color, by the way, who are very, very concerned about these laws --
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>> i agree with you. that's so true. >> she's bringing out her base. they're both bringing out their base. >> i think everybody knows who's going for who. let me go back to you, robert costa. in terms of a decision, was this any decision at all on his part or was trump going to do this? i guess he got the national endorsement of the nra, the national rifle association, he certainly got paid value today to go give that speech in louisville? >> it's a political move, a chess move. look at a state like pennsylvania. we're talking about pat toomey for senate re-election in that state. he's one of the big republicans on background checks, trying to appeal to those philly suburban voters. but trump by cozying up to the nra, he's really looking for the center of pennsylvania, that more rural part of the state. trying to get those working class independents and conservatives to come out for him in major numbers. >> my brother lives in pennsylvania, to the west of allentown. he is with those guys all the way. anyway, hillary clinton pushed back hard against trump yesterday, calling his positions -- now, here's her reaction, in addition to what you said, joy, here's the tough language.
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she said he's potentially dangerous. let's watch. >> the kinds of positions he is stating and the consequences of those positions and even the consequences of his statements are not just offensive to people, they are potentially dangerous. >> she wants to make him into barry goldwater back in the '60s, a guy with an itchy trigger finger on nuclear weapons, he was portrayed as having. it's dangerous. >> it's very interesting, because donald trump has said as recently as this morning on "morning joe," he would not have gone -- he repeated, iraq was a mistake, libya was a mistake. i would not go to syria. so on the one hand, he's playing the isolation guy in terms of the middle east. on the other hand, he's talking big and talking loud about arming other nations with nuclear weapons and the rhetoric that he's taking against -- >> explain that. what's the logic -- there's a logic to what he's doing. it isn't all -- there's some inconsistency historically.
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but right now he's saying, we're the tough, self-reliant americans. we're going to look out for ourselves. screw everybody else. we're looking out for us. number one. >> right. they're also going to try to claim, the trump campaign will try to claim the mantle of ronald reagan on this, believe it or not. because ronald reagan was not a guy who sent troops to a lot of places. he was a guy who flexed american muscle by building up the pentagon and then cutting a deal with the soviets. that's who they're going to claim. now, whether they can realistically and convincingly make that claim, i don't know. but that's the claim they're going to make. >> so true about reagan. even when the plane went down over south korea, the south korean plane over russia, the time that the american soldier was killed along the dmz, basically, in east berlin, reagan did not go to war over that stuff. he saw it as stuff you have to put up with. your thoughts, robert? because i think reagan is, in many ways, the gold standard for the conservatives. >> you call him an urban cowboy, but he's a certain kind of urban cowboy. i think howard's spot on. we're looking at trump going back to old school republicanism.
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some call it realism. he's been heating with henry kissinger, talking to jim baker. who is he not meeting with? he's not meeting with those traditional conservative hawks. the george w. bush people and so that's really sending the signal about what kind of republican he is. >> look who knocked him on your paper today? robert kagan, a reasonable neocon, and a hawk, who went after him in a big box column today, robert. really sticking it to him. >> and by the way, a lot of the other neocon types, the bill kristols and so on, they don't want to have anything to do with donald trump. >> they think hillary is going to -- at some point, the big story, when hillary swaps and grabs some of them. anyway, new national poll shows clinton with a six-point lead over trump. we've seen that as of late last night, 47-41. that's down from a ten-point lead a month ago. at least in this poll, trump is closing. meanwhile, there's evidence that the republican party is falling in line behind this. this is pretty astounding. 80% of republicans, four out of five, say their party leaders should support trump. joy, this is a coming home
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faster than i expected to the party. there are people historically more obedient than democrats. it's more like catholic school than public school, they do what they're told, they put their hands together and talk unless spoken to, but they do fall in line, they don't fall in love. this is pretty quick to fall in line, though. 80% do what he wants. back this guy. >> i think it's just one other example of the fact that, you know, there are a certain number of elites in the republican party. really more in the conservative movement. there are the neocons, the movement conservatives, the erick ericksons of the world, who really detest donald trump, because he refutes the idea that their version of conservatism has a broad base. and quite frankly, what donald trump has disproved is that that base is as big as they've thought it was. and there are a few show and talk radio people who are standing against trump. at the end of the day, republicans come home to the republicans and democrats do the same. and any republican would be at around 40 to 44%. that's just the way it is. >> i've got the best question
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for you. 88%'s accounted for. who's that other 12? that can't decide right now between hillary clinton and donald trump? who is it? let's guess about that. you start. who's in that 12? >> we're talking about what you call the suburbs and the exurban voter. i think that's all you have left. who trump's talking to at the nra and do his spaghetti version of ronald reagan, that's who -- >> did you just think of that? >> he's trying to be a reagan kind of guy. but those people are already republicans. there's nobody new there. what these guys will be fighting over are essentially suburban women and exurban women, the few remaining swing voters left. i think that's what it is. the suburbs. >> i would add. >> i'll leave -- >> i would add to that hispanics in certain states. >> cuban american? >> no, leave them out of the equation. but talking to the trump people, they know they're not going to get 40% of the hispanic vote
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nationwide. but what they're looking at are some states in the middle. again, pennsylvania, ohio, to take two, where there's some hispanics that they think they can get as part of the macho, to use the spanish -- >> i get it. >> part of the macho cultural. they're men and women, trump has to get his numbers up with those people, and that kind of appeal today is part, they think is one of the routes -- >> let's get the final point here. donald trump last week told george stephanopoulos about taxes, it's none of your business. and now he could be the first major party candidate in 40 years to refuse to release his tax returns. today "the washington post" reported, there was a time, a third of a century ago, when trump's tax returns were made public and it showed the that he paid zero dollars in income taxes to the federal government. according to the post disclosure, quote, the disclosure in a 1981 report by a new jersey gambling regulators revealed that the wealthy had taken advantage of a tax code
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provision popular with developers that allowed him to report negative income. robert costa, does that mean anything to anybody today? that back in the late '70s, he found a tax break that he exploited? >> well, based on "the washington post" report, he got a sense that many people in the real estate industry, they often pay low taxes or sometimes no income taxes at all because of the way it's all set up. so that's the thought about trump. it's not so much about revealing his fortune, it's about revealing his rate or his lack of a rate. >> i think that's a problem. and i think everybody sort of -- didn't you all sort of smell this, howard? that real estate allows you to depreciate on property and all these different -- >> yes, but chris, here's the amazing thing. it's become a standard procedure to release the returns. even mitch mcconnell, the republican leader said, well, people usually do that. he said that just the other day. but my sense, and robert may know differently, but my reporting tells me that they think that they can tough this out. somehow, they're going to go all the way from here to november and not release the returns. i don't know how they do it.
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maybe they can. >> this is so tough. it's almost like saying, i'm not going to debate. >> i don't know if they can get away wit. >> i don't know. we'll see. he obviously has something he doesn't want public and he's willing to pay the price. anyway, robert costa -- because when in doubt, if it looks better than it is, they don't say anything. if it's worse than it looks, there's a reason for that. thank you, howard fineman, thank you. robert costa, thank you. thank you, joy reid. everyone have a good weekend. and we'll be sure to join joy this weekend at 10:00 a.m. eastern for her show, "a.m. joy," and her special guest, harry reid. that's this weekend. is that saturday and sunday? >> we're going to do a little on saturday, a little bit on sunday. >> great. coming up, hillary clinton says she's going to be the democratic nominee. that's a fact. bernie sanders is going all-out, however, to win california and come into the democratic convention at the height of his political powers. yet despite that political show of force, sanders is quietly telling some democratic leaders he'll be onboard as clinton takes on donald trump. well, that's ahead. plus, the latest on the investigation into what brought down that egypt airliner over
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the mediterranean. wreckage has been found, but the cause of the crash remains, as we know now, a mystery. and donald trump says it was a mistake for the united states to intervene in toppling gadhafi. he talked about that. but in 2011, the year he went in there, trump was calling for military action. hmm. will voters give trump a pass on his wildly changings positions? finally, the behind-the-scenes story of the camp david accords, president carter's breakthrough peace deal between israel and egypt. this is "hardball," the place for politics. with's range rebel and key can wing it
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all the way to jordan and chelsea's wedding. rumble! road trip. there she is. uh oh, oh, oh, oh, what? so here is our road trip itinerary. what's this? a bunch of different places... nah, bro. we gotta go off-script. rip to shreds every motel, cabin and teepee, between here and the wedding. now get out of my seat. alright. (screams) road trip! whahhhh hahaha... road trip! i'm milissa rehberger with breaking news. an armed man was shot earlier outside the white house grounds triggering a lockdown. nbc's chief pentagon correspondent, jim miklaszewski has the latest. jim, what can you tell us? >> reporter: melissa, this place this afternoon suddenly exploded with shouts of shots fired and heavily armed secret service agents running back and forth to their post. in a somewhat bizarre story,
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eyewitnesss said that a man brandishing a weapon openly approached the guard checkpoint at the southwest corner of the white house grounds. and when the secret service agents and police ordered him to drop the weapon, put the gun down, put it down, when he refused, one of the agents shot the individual once in the chest. he's currently at the hospital in unknown condition. he's identified as jesse olivera of pennsylvania and it's said, by u.s. federal officials, that it's believed that this was an attempted suicide by cop. that the suspect actually said that he wanted to die before he was shot, milissa. >> was the president in any kind of danger? >> reporter: actually, the president was in no danger. he was out golfing somewhere. now, joe biden was here at the compound. the whereabouts of the first lady and two daughters at that
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time is unknown. >> all right, mick, thank you. "hardball" returns after this. it releases a cooling sensation in your mouth and throat. zantac works in as little as 30 minutes. nexium can take 24 hours. try cool mint zantac. no pill relieves heartburn faster. (man) hmm. ♪hat do you think? (stranger) good mornin'! ♪ (store p.a.) attention shoppers, there's a lost couple in the men's department. (vo) there's a great big un-khaki world out there. explore it in a subaru crosstrek. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. unless you have allergies. flonase is the first and only nasal spray approved to relieve both itchy, watery eyes and congestion. no other nasal allergy spray can say that. go ahead, embrace those beautiful moments. flonase changes everything.
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before we will have the opportunity to defeat donald trump, we're going to have to defeat secretary clinton. we're going to continue to fight for every last vote until june 14th and then we're going to take our fight into the conventio convention. >> welcome back to "hardball." bernie sanders says he wants to defeat hillary clinton, but yesterday, clinton insisted she will be the democrats' nominee. >> so you get into the general election if you're the nominee for your party. >> i will be the nominee for my party, chris. that is already done, in effect. there is no way i won't be. >> "the new york times" reported
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that sanders is newly resolved to remain in the race, seeing an aggressive campaign as his only chance to pressure democrats into making fundamental changes as the to primaries and debates are held in the future. his advisers and allies says he is willing to do some harm to mrs. clinton in the shorter term if it means he can capture a majority of the 475 pledged delegates at stake in california and arrive at the philadelphia convention with maximum political power. and "the washington post" reports that, quote, the democratic national committee plans to offer a kegs to senator sanders, seats on a key convention platform committee, according to two people familiar with the conversations. the dnc and the campaigns will reach a final agreement, probably less than sanders wanted, but more than the dnc originally offered a to the end of the week, that's this week. can democrats strike a deal with bernie to avoid chaos at the convention, or is he gearing up for a floor flight? joan walsh is with "the nation" and jeremy peters is a reporter for "the new york times." congressman burton, thank you for coming on. it seems to me, there's a couple areas where bernie's got a good
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argument. one is the ways that the debates were scheduled in saturday night or sunday morning. the way the dnc put those debates together was to make sure nobody watched them. and the other one is to try to get an even-handed policy on the middle east. a lot of democrats would like to see that. so there's a lot of fish in this barrel. a lot going on in terms of negotiations. how do you think it's going to work? is bernie going to deal or fight? >> well, first of all, i know the answer was joe clark, okay? >> thank you. the last liberal from pennsylvania, right. >> you got it. >> i think that sanders is going to fight for issues in the platform. he wants some reforms were future democratic primaries, as far as debates are concerned. and other issues. and i think there will be fights on the floor over platform, but
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that happened, you know, in '68 with the peace plank. the important thing for us as democrats, is when it's all over, fully understand the enemy is going to be donald trump. and we have to do everything we can, whether it's clinton or sanders to make sure after the convention, the party and the party meaning that democrats, not political party, but democrats, understand that the future of the nation is at stake and we will pull together. chris, i was there in '68, when the mccarthy people, of which i was one, held out for too long before embracing hubert humphrey. hubert held out a little too long before changing his position on the war. and we ended up with dick nixon. and those of us that, unfortunately, are old enough to remember that, do not want to see that kind of mistake again. >> joan, let's talk about the things that can be negotiated.
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first of all, what do you think -- simple question. what do you think senator sanders is up to? he's still trying to win, at least on paper. he says he's trying -- that can be rhetorical, he knows the math as well as everybody. he sitz whether the jeff weaver, he knows the math and the difficulty of surmounting these numbers. but what does he want to do if he doesn't win? >> look, i think he's in a tough position and i sympathize with some of his position, chris. i think he knows that he's not going to win, that he can't win. i think he wants to go into philadelphia with the maximum number of delegates, so he can exert the maximum influence on the platform. and i think that's fine. what i don't think is fine is if when he says, "i can still win," he continues to feed a sense of grievance or that people have been cheated, like we saw with the nevada situation, like we've seen, you know, in the new york primary, people were kicked off the rolls in brooklyn. they had nothing to do with secretary clinton. her people, kicked off the rolls. there have been some glitches along the way in this primary season, that unfortunately the sanders campaign and a lot of the more vocal supporters have
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blamed on secretary clinton or blamed on the democratic national committee that were not at all their fault. so it's very important that as he says, i can win and i want you to come out and vote for me, he also stops feeding this sense of grievance that the rules are rigged and that he's been treated unfairly in the voting process. we can debate about -- i agree with you on the debates, it was ridiculous and didn't help secretary clinton. she did really well in the debates. everyone agrees. >> why was she hiding from -- >> she definitely didn't help secretary clinton. >> jeremy, let's get to the point. there's some obviously low-hanging branches here that you say we could fix the debate schedule, how about weekday nights in prime-time. that would be simple. and the foreign policy, to have a democratic floor debate over middle east spols obviously risky with the donor class, if you will. all the democratic party is not pro-israel. but the other things, the question is, is this going to end up making hillary stronger in a general election or weaker?
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>> the polls show right now that far more americans felt that the primary process was harmful in 2008 than they do now. and given it didn't harm barack obama in 2008 hardly at all is proof right now to a lot of people that he'll show -- that she'll emerge just fine. but i think you don't need to be a negotiator ala donald trump to realize that this is his -- that this is the democratic party's first offer to bernie. >> let me go to john burton, let me ask you a simple question. is this election out there come june, even though it's going to be after, apparently, the networks have already called it, saying hillary's got the re requisite number. by the time you guys vote and we have a count out there at 11:00, california time, or whatever it comes in, maybe 11:00 eastern time, do you think this is going to be a close vote out there? how do you see it right now, the democratic primary? >> well, bernie sanders has a movement. hillary clinton's got an
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election. there are two different things. when you're involved in movement politics is, you know, i've been actually more than i've been elected, you know, involved in elected, it just, it comes not from the head, but from your gut. and i think it will be very interesting if the clinton people know that she has got it cinched in california -- before california finishes voting, the sanders people, in my mind, will still turn out to vote, to prove the point that they have things to say and things to change and they want their voices heard. and that's a very strong impetus. just this week, facebook did some kind of voter registration thing, and i think, like 200,000 new voters registered in like three days. and you know those people were not registering for more of the same. i think they were registering probably mostly for bernie, maybe a little for trump.
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but i have no doubt in that you people that are smart, the talking heads, keep claiming that when it's over, and i believe this, that democrats will come home to hillary clinton, assuming she'll get it, and i don't assume anything until it's over, but they're going to all come home to one thing, the country cannot afford donald trump. >> well, backing you up there, congressman. according to "the new york times" cbs news poll, 72% of bernie sanders voters say they'll support hillary clinton in the end. it's a higher number than eight years ago, when just 60% of hillary clinton voters said they would support then senator obama. that's interesting. anyway, illinois senator dick durbin said he spoke to bernie sanders on the phone recently and he's confident democrats will unite. let's listen to senator durbin. >> i looked at it, though, why did he call me? well, we're friends, but i think he called me, because in the end, he understands, we have to make sure we come together as a party for the right values and for the right reasons. making sure that donald trump is
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not the next commander in chief in the united states of america. >> well, that sounds like a final line there. by the way, thank you, john burton, because you're right about joe clark. he's the first big senate -- first senator ever got to vote for when i first voted. anyway, he lost, unfortunately. anyway, john burton, thank you for joining us. joan walsh, as always, and jeremy peters. up next, new details ton investigation into what brought down that egypt air jetliner. still trying to get it nailed. back and more after this. my bladder leakage made me feel like i couldn't be the father that i wanted to be. my kids see me as this rock of the family and a part of me felt like i became less of that hero to them but with depend, i have none of those concerns anymore. i can go all out. there's no restriction in my movement. it's liberating and sloan is back. unlike the bargain brand, new depend fit-flex underwear is now more flexible to move with you. reconnect with the life you've been missing. get a free sample at
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(jon bon jovi) with directv, you don't. ♪ you see, we've got the power to turn back time. ♪ ♪ that show you missed, let's just go back and find. ♪ ♪ and let's go back and choose spicy instead of mild. ♪ ♪ and maybe reconsider having that second child. ♪ ♪ see, that's the power to turn back time. ♪ (vo) get the ultimate all included bundle. call 1-800-directv. more than 48 hours after egypt air flight 804 went down in the mediterranean, the mystery remains, what caused the flight. with 66 passengers and crew aboard, to suddenly fall from the sky? well, today search crews located pieces of the plane, including luggage, passenger seats, and human remains. one new clue has emerged. nbc news confirms reports that data transmitted from the plane minutes before it crashed showed
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smoke onboard the plane. nbc's kerry sanders joins us now. well, kerry, a big question mark from me to you. what happened? do we know yet? >> reporter: well, we're getting more details. you know, when a plane is flying, it's not only the communications from the pilot to air traffic control, but planes are also autonomously sending out data, streams of data at certain intervals that send information back to home base. it stands for acars. acars provides information that is critical, perhaps, in this investigation. we know that the pilots had been in communication on their radio with greek authorities. but then when they got into egyptian air space, there was silence. now, this may be why. let me tell you what was going on. there were three simultaneous events apparently happening, according to the acars system. first of all, two censors from the cockpit's right window duooff. it shows that there's a problem with two of the window inside the cockpit, and at the same time, smoke censor in the forward lavatory goes off.
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that would be outside of the cockpit, but just on the other side of the wall in the main cabin area. then one minute later, there's smoke in the avionics compartment, which controls the plane. then another window censor goes off inside the cockpit and three minutes lair, the acars system suggests that there are indications of pilot control and computer problems, and that, of course, is critical, because the pilots are trying to control this plane with all of this advanced avionics. so it's possible, based on the acars information, there was a fire or an explosion that caused a catastrophic failure of each of these pieces of equipment that were going on, whether it's windows, whether it's computers, whether it's something going on inside the lavatory, which, of course, is all focused in an area on this airplane, the way it was laid out, near the galley. and of course the question now is, was something in the galley? we know that there have been bombs that have been made that can fit inside a soda can. and so there will be a lot of focus on trying to determine whether this acars data is
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revealing that there was a fire or a bomb onboard. but, again, it's only pieces of the puzzle. trying to find this, okay, this is the black box, is really going to be the most important thing that they can find, somewhere deep in the mediterranean. chris? >> thank you so much. nbc's kerry sanders. up next, donald trump's stunning 180-degree turn on whether or not we should have gone into libya. he slams hillary clinton for wanting to go in, but five years ago, he was right there with her. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. if you suffer from a dry mouth, then you'll know how uncomfortable it can be. but did you know that the lack of saliva can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath? well, there is biotene, specially formulated with moisturizers and lubricants... biotene can provide soothing relief and it helps keep your mouth healy too. biotene, for people who suffer from a dry mouth.
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welcome back to "hardball." during a phone interview this morning on msnbc's "morning joe," presumptive republican nominee donald trump said he would have stayed out of libya back in 2011. >> would you have stayed out of libya? >> i would have stayed out of libya, yeah. i would have stayed out of iraq,
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too. >> well, but what trump told "morning joe" this morning is the opposite of something he said in his own video blog back in february of 2011 itself. right about the time the obama administration was debating whether to intervene in that country. at that time, trump said that the united states should go in and stop moammar gadhafi. >> we're sitting around, we have soldiers all over the middle east, and we're not bringing them in to stop this horrible carnage. and that's what it is. it's a carnage. you talk about all of the things that have happened in history. this could be one of the worst. now, we should go in, we should stop this guy, which would be very easy, very quick, we could do it surgically, stop him from doing it, and save these lives. >> so which trump are getting in this election? is he a hawk or a dove? joining me is mally ball, staff writer covering politics for the atlantic. matt schlapp was white house political director for george w. bush and chairman of the
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american conservative union. amanda turkle with the "huffington post." molly, let me start you and go right through here. 100% inconsistency here from what he said at the time -- when he had to decide whether to go in or not. i, personally, i'm a nonintervention noninterventionalist, but i remember clearly samantha powers, susan rice, and hillary clinton, secretary of state, all pushed for intervention and they convinced the president to do it. trump apparently was part of that line back then. now he's saying he was against that line, as of this morning. where is he wrm where was he? >> he was somewhere and now he's somewhere else. the same with the iraq war, right? because he now has been in this case, and this campaign has been very critical of the iraq war, but he's on the record from before the war saying he supported the invasion. so this is attention in his rhetoric, when he says that -- >> why will it change? he says he's militaristic. >> motive? >> because he's running this time as an noninterventionalist. >> why would he switch? >> that's where he sees the
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electorate, presumably, and it seems to have worked for him so far. >> matt, sound right to you? what you just said? >> yeah, i agree with molly. >> if you want to tune your instrument to the current note, the note is nonintervention. >> right. what's the common thread? america. let's take care of america. let's take care of america's economy. let's take care of america's jobs. and the other thing is that, let's face it. it's a war-weary country and it's been war-weary for a very long time. there's a reason why the right track/wrong track has been on the wrong track. we feel a certain malaise about how things are at home. >> and he thinks this is a way he can differentiate himself from hillary clinton. he thinks he can say, i wasn't. he's just lying. and he will probably have a different position tomorrow if he thinks that's the way the political winds are -- >> and it's not that he's changing his mind, he's saying, i never had a difference of mind. >> right. he is actually just lying. he says, go look, there are tons
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of clips out there saying, i'm out there opposing it. the media has looked and there is nothing out there. >> let's go back to political. why is he doing this? it's better to say i'm against this stuff now and have always been against it than to admit you were ever for it. even if your people, who are reporters, can point out the inconsistency, right? >> his supporters aren't supporting him for rational reasons, like, i really looked at donald trump's position on libya. >> rational is a hard word -- >> okay. >> you're saying the voters are not being logical? >> rational is the wrong word, but his supporters are not saying, i support donald trump because i really like what he's saying on libya. a lot of it is very emotional. they like his character, they like who he is, they like that he's thumbing his nose at the establishment. and he's not doing what traditional politicians are. and that will come through, even if he chooses -- >> do you think he just discovered nationalism? that he wasn't a nationalist four or five years ago? i am convinced is his grandest poll. it's us against the rest, us against mexico, us gempbs every foreign power. it's not even racial, it's just
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everybody else but us americans. and it's for us and stop getting screwed around the by the rest of the world and that includes don't get entangled in middle east wars. >> i think it's where a lot of republicans are post-george w. bush and barack obama. why would people be gengs the libya policy? probably because it's been a failure. why are people looking at barack and saying -- >> because we're stuck. >> even this president who ran on the fact we would be out of some of these places haven't been able to convert on this. our economy is incredibly soft adds we feel. that undergourds everything in politics. >> ronald reagan, in addition to other advantages, he was a lucky guy. he would go to these bite-sized wars, like grenada, in and out of in three or four days. a lot of people got killed and things went wrong, noriega down in panama, in and out. they made everybody feel good, like the falkland words made margaret thatcher feel good, but they were over. >> because reagan was not a big-time interventionalist. >> well, he is now.
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>> is pretty much -- >> peace through strength! >> in and out, too. bite-sized wars. . >> and tried to commit ourselves as little as possible, that he's for entanglements. you can say america first and have that not mean isolationism. >> here he is now in the present time, here's the new donald trump, the new model this year, out on the campaign trail. he called for less intervention in the world, but he also calls himself the most militaristic, catch this, even more militaristic than george w. bush. so, another angle to the man. >> i'm the most militaristic person here. >> i'm the most militaristic person in this room. believe me. >> i'm the most militaristic person. militaristic. militaristic. militaristic. i'm much more militaristic than bush, even the brother. >> it's like general leaseimo. it's like this guy, epaulets on his sleeve, i'm going to war. why is that selling at the same time he's selling nonintervention? >> he's carrying a big stick, he's not being quiet about this.
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and again, this is donald trump, where every day it seems like he has a different position. he can be whoever his supporters want him to be. >> but there's a certain bottom line to where he is now. he's for nonintervention now. >> he is for nonintervention now. but he wants to hold out the threat of intervention there. because, make america great again. everyone will respect america and so we should hold out the threat that we can nuke the world if he want to. >> i wonder if this conversation has any effect on anybody that likes him. like i'm quibbling. the roundtable is sticking with us. up and next, these people will tell me something i don't know on this friday night. this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪
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or planning to be. ask your dermatologist about otezla today. otezla. show more of you. there's been a lot of public controversy lately over the name of the football team here in washington. the redskins. now a new poll by "the washington post" found that nine in ten native americans say they aren't offended by the redskins name. aren't offended. "the post" surveyed native americans in all 50 states over a five-month period ending last month. the redskins are in a legal battle with the federal trademark office over whether the name is offensive. even president obama said the team should think about changing it. but the team owner celebrated over "the post's" poll and says the name will never change. we'll be right back. you doll this research
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nexium can take 24 hours. try cool mint zantac. no pill relieves heartburn faster. we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. amanda, tell me something i don't know. i love scaring people. >> so, oscar has their own donald trump who looks like they're going to win the presidential election on sunday. his name is norbert hopefer, i believe is his name, and he wants to build a wall -- >> around austria? >> somewhere around austria. he wants to keep muslims out, is against free trade, and has a strong following of these young people who call themselves right-wing hipsters. >> is he going to win? >> he's a front-runner right now. >> matt? >> i talked to several senior members of the trump campaign and those resumes are coming over the trenches and these wounds are healing incredibly fast. faster than they even expect. >> bob corker for vp?
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>> it's a live wire. at least he's meeting with trump. >> interesting. >> you were talking earlier in the show about the things that bernie sanders might demand in terms of procedural reforms from the democratic party. >> evenhanded policy in the mideast. that's a biggy. >> i've been talking to democrats about what they think that he would go for, you know, particularly in terms of the primary process, because there have been so many complaints about that. would it just be super delegate reform? would he also seek to increase the number of open primaries? would he try to get rid of the caucus system, even though that has advantage to him. >> i think everything -- i think all or nothing. >> and the sense is, yeah, he would have more credibility if he's asking for things that wouldn't just reverse engineer -- >> i was pushing it the other night on the show. if you're going to get rid of things like super delegates, get rid of caucuses and state conventions, make one person, one vote. keep it simple. but the big shots in the parties want the super delegates. and the hard left people want those caucuses. right? >> that's right. so it will be hard. >> well, compromise is compromise, molly ball. thank you, matt schlapp. when we return, the behind the scenes story of president
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carter's peace deal between israel and egypt. the actor richard thomas who plays president carter in the new play "camp david" joins us next. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. i can draw lightly, just like i would with a real pencil. i've been a forensic artist for over 30 years. i do the composite sketches which are the bad guy sketches. you need good resolution, powerful processor because the computer has to start thinking as fast as my brain does. i do this because i want my artwork to help people. (man) hmm. ♪hat do you think? (stranger) good mornin'! ♪ (store p.a.) attention shoppers, there's a lost couple in the men's department.
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. the scene in the white house last night was almost unbelievable. israel and egypt in a bear hug that celebrated the two agreements worked out in 13 days of negotiating at camp david. it will be the first time in history that an arab nation has
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agreed to a peace treaty with israel. >> welcome back to "hardball." the 1978 camp david accords were a rare and historic achievement of presidential diplomacy. brokered by president jimmy carter, it was the photo finish conclusion of an intensive negotiation between the leaders of two adversarial countries in the middle east. egypt and israel. yet, the story behind the summit was more fraught with tension, discord and animus than anyone ever knew at the time. and it all played out over 12 days in the tranquil wooded hills of its namesake, camp david. the 120-acre presidential retreat north of washington. that story is now being told on stage, in a play, "camp david: an historical drama" featuring emmy award winning actor richard thomas as president carter. let's take a look at a scene of carter in a heated argument with egypt's president, anwar sadat. >> i have known them all my life. >> you're an ignorant man! ignorant of who we are!
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you know nothing about our problems and yet you think you can solve them all at once! no, you're not only ignorant, you're -- >> you're right, you're right sclfs it was a crazy idea! completely insane! put an arab and a jew on a mountaintop and ask them to make peace, what was i thinking? >> i'm joined right now by actor richard thomas who's also famous for his role way back when. thaunlg for coming on. zp >> i worked for president carter and am friends with a lot of people. what did you learn and what will we learn as this potentially becomes a movie at some point? what did you listener? >> it's been a wonderful experience and very honored to be in it and it's been a great pleasure. lawrence wright is such an amazing writer and he's managed to reduce this to four characters, you know, sadat, carter, and roselinde carter in an hour and 45 minute play.
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it's been very intense and we learned so much doing it. >> you know, the great drama is, of course, even if we know it ends well, it doesn't seem like it when you watch it. because these guys, >> that's right. that's right, you know how it's going to turn out, but five minutes before the end you think, wait a minute, am i wrong? did this all fall apart? it's very suspenseful, given it's history. >> which of the two guys -- we love anwar sadat, because he had the guts to go to israel. and he was tough all along. but you see the play, you're really struck with how gutsy bagen turns out to be. >> yeah, well, one of the great things about what larry has done is that he presents everybody's arguments so convincingly that even if you come into the play with a particular point of view or some baggage about what you you believe at one side or the other, you have to pay attention
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to every side in the argument. and he's done it wonderfully. and we have some terrific actors to speak those arguments. so it's very exciting every night. the dialectic is terrific in the play. >> you play the president. and i think jimmy carter is great. zb >> me too. >> and rosalind carter, tell me about her role. that's something that department get any press at the time. >> it's one of the most exciting accomplishments of larry's in the play. that he brings rosalind in as the person, as the one person who can really talk to all three of these men. she brings in influences from the outside, because as you know, there were so many people there at the time, and there are only four characters in the play. she brings many of the outside points of view into the play, on to the stage. but she's the glue, she's the one who really gets the men in the right place psychologically to make this happen. and halley foot is to great in the role and it's a fantastic part. you would think, well, rosalind carter would be kind of a supporting role, but actually
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she's really the steel behind the whole thing, i think. >> i'm so glad you have this part. richard thomas. >> me too. >> the play is called "camp david." >> it's been a pleasure. >> thank you so much for coming on "hardball." this is "hardball" tonight. thanks "all in with chris hayes." >> they have so many. >> don and trump is endorsed by the nra as he takes on hillary clinton. >> the most anti-gun anti-second amendment candidate ever to run for office. then as investigators search for what brought down egyptair flight 804, speculation continues. >> i can practically guarantee who blew it up. plus, despite the daley jabs -- >> secretary clinton has a number of super pacs. >> boo! >> are democrats more united now than they were eight years ago?


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