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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  May 21, 2016 4:00am-5:01am PDT

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if you want to play to win more or less awesome stuff that we find in our offices, send us e-mail. rachel@msnbc.com. our real e-mail address. it works. tell us who you are, where you're from. why you want to play. >> good morning. i'm alex witt in new york. it remains a mystery this morning the exact cause of the egyptair crash over the immediate ter mediterranean. >> hillary clinton wants to abolish the second amendment. >> in presidential politics donald trump grabbing the nra endorsement while attacking hillary clinton. we'll tell you what the latest polls show. >> the republicans are about to nominate a guy who says he's worth $10 million and won't show his tax return. >> not to be outdone, former president bill clinton hitting donald trump where he thinks it hurts most, his tax returns, but there's more.
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and cash crunch, the sanders campaign burning through money at a fast pace. will the candidate have enough to make it to the convention? search crews from egypt, france, and other nations are in the air and on the sea this morning searching for more wreckage of egyptair flight 804. the egyptian military released new images of debris recovered from the mediterranean, 180 miles north of alexandra. the flight data recorders have not been recovered. there were indications of a fire condition on board. >> nbc news confirmed as authentic automated computer message from flight 804 to its maintenance base. three simultaneous events at 26 after midnight gmt. two sensors from the right rear window go off. at the same time a smoke sensor in the forward lav. one minute later smoke which
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controls the plane. then another window sensor. and 29 minutes after midnight problems indicated with the pilots controls and computers critical to controlling the plane. >> investigators have confirmed that smoke was detected aboard that plane but it's still not known if that fire condition is what caused it to plunge into the sea. as the search continues no militant group has claimed to have brought down that aircraft. experts hope once the black boxes are recovered they will be ablg to determine the cause. chris jansing is in paris with more on the investigation. chris, good morning to you. what do we know about this smoke that's been detected on board that plane? >> reporter: well, it's the first indication we have alex of what happened in the minutes leading up to this catastrophic event. it must have been intense heat. experts who looked at the messages that tom talked about say it was all so fast moving from the time they got the first messages to the time contact was lost with that plane, it was
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only about two or three minutes, so that means this wasn't some sort of small accident. this wasn't somebody going into that lavatory and throwing away a cigarette and a small fire started. this obviously was something far more serious than that. the question is, what caused it and how do we get to that point. as all of this was unfolding late yesterday, this late breaking information, we were getting our first look at some of the debris that was found out in the mediterranean sea. we can show you some of those pictures that were posted on facebook by egyptian officials. obviously, the analysis has begun, they are continuing that search that you talked about. here in france they have sent a ship with specialized equipment that will take some time to get out to the search area. but they are continuing that intense and very pain staking work of trying to find as much as they possibly can. of course, to include those black boxes. in the meantime, here in france there was a big meeting this
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morning. the foreign minister held a press conference a short time ago, he said that already this morning he's met with hundreds of people including 50 family members of the victims here. promising them full transparency in what's been happening. as you know, french officials have already traveled to egypt and are working with the egyptian officials in this ongoing investigation. what might this mean here at charles de gaulle airport. already apart from this accident they were planning this week to start a new security system, sort of a test basis, looking at the manifest, at people who are boarding these planes, doing computer comparisons, something in place in other countries including the uk, and there happen to be again a meeting of 15 nations concerned about the effects of terrorism on the tourism industry throughout europe. i spoke yesterday with the
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official french representative who told me about what message they want to send to people who are considering coming to europe this summer. take a listen. >> at the same time we cannot keep the people win. we have to go on, going to the restaurant, to the hotel, to the theater, and we have to live. so that i think behind it people cannot avoid danger, if the danger is not there, it can be whatever -- >> sos that investigation continues and the question remains out there about whether or not this was some sort of horrible mechanical failure or whether this was an act of terror, there is a big soccer match here in paris tonight and in the aftermath of the other terrorist attack that happened after the charlie ebdue, what happened at the stadium and in
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november, new security measures will be tested as they look forward to what is going to be a huge series of events with the euro 2016 soccer matches coming up. >> pretty much tense times. thank you so much. chris jansing there in paris. let's bring in aviation analyst and former pilot john cox. talk about these smoke conditions, the data that we're getting in the lavatory and the compartment. what does that tell you? >> the thing that's probably the most of the greatest interest to me so far is this event unfolds much more slowly than it initially looked like. there's a three-minute period there's six faults that are generated and that are transmitted to the maintenance facility. there are two smoke events, but also indications of overheating on the wind screens on the right side of the airplane, as well as flight control computer issue.
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but after these six faults, after the last one of these six faults, the airplane flies on for a period of about four minutes before it starts down. and we know there's electrical power to the airplane. so this event unfolds over a much greater time frame than we initially thought. this tells me as an investigator for something over 30 years that we need to keep every option on the table, it may or may not have been an explosive device, it may or may not have been a fire, may or may not have been a structural problem, it may or may not have been a mechanical problem. at this point we've got to keep an open mind. this data that we've gotten, this was downlinked is a major piece to help us understand what happened on this tragic flight. >> so this data, if you're flying a plane like that, does it have a long time of advance warning? that data will get out there before a pilot wouldble aware? i'm curious why if this was
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under way why a pilot didn't make a distress call. >> the talking to air traffic control is a low priority when you have a major event going on board. air traffic control cannot help you. all air traffic control can do is move other airplanes away from you and provide you a course to fly toward an airport if you need it. as a pilot, if you have an event that occurs on the airplane, the first thing is to maintain control, the second is to manage the flight path so that you don't hit something with the airplane, and then when you have time talk to air traffic control. so, it would be very common and i do not find it unusual at all if there is an event going on the airplane, that the pilots did not call air traffic control. they can't really do that much to help you. >> john, to your point of this being a slow-moving incident, does that suggest to you that it is not terrorism? that it wouldn't be a bomb? >> it suggests to me that everything is on the table.
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there have been a lot of i'll call them so called experts but a lot of people who have jumped very far out ahead of the evidence and wanted to make the primary likely theory an explosive device. and right now the evidence does not support that. if anything, the evidence says we need to be very methodical, we need to keep every option on the table. that said, the airbus a-320 in service since the early 1980s. to my knowledge and the research i've been able to do since last night, i cannot find a case where there has been a major fire in the avy onnicsing bay so the the history of the fleet says the airplane has never done this before. so the question to the investigators now is what could have caused these six faults to occur in a three-minute period, but then not have additional faults in the next four minutes, and then to have the airplane come down at a very high rate of speed, high vertical rate of
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speed. put those things, tile those dots together and you may well be able to explain what happened. but as it stands now we don't have the ability to do that. there's a lot of research that's going on now to try to understand it. >> john cox, always glad for our conversations despite the horrible circumstances. thank you so much. we're going to talk with a former ntsb investigator and find out what inspectors hope to learn coming at the bottom of the hour. donald trump is off the campaign trail today after picking up the endorsement by the nra. he spent most of his 30-minute speech at the leadership forum attacking hillary clinton with this warning to members. >> hillary clinton wants to abolish the second amendment, just remember. that we're not talking about changing, she wants to abolish the second amendment. hillary's pledge to issue new anti-gun executive orders. you know that. this is the behavior i mean you could say of a dictator, this is
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the behavior of somebody frankly, i think, that doesn't know what she's doing. she is not equipped to be president in so many different ways. >> hillary clinton is standing by comments she made this week about trump's candidacy, tweeting yesterday the united states presidency requires steadiness as well as strength and smarts. donald trump is not qualified. former president bill clinton has shifted into general election mode with attacks against the presumptive republican nominee. he told supporters in montana last night. >> we're going to make america great again, that's code for you've been shafted i'll make it the way it used to be. what he's really saying to people in the white working class, who have a legitimate beef, i'll make you better again and even if you don't get better at least i'll give you the pleasure of watching me beat up on other people. >> bernie sanders is once again vowing to take his fight all the way to the convention as
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tensions between him and the party escalate. here's what he told a crowd of about 7,000 supporters in new mexico last night. >> over 400 of these superdelegates indicated their support for secretary clinton before any one else was in the race, before the first ballot was cast. that is the what the anointment process is about. and it is a bad idea. one would think that the democratic leadership would want the strongest candidate possible to defeat donald trump. >> sanders has two events today, one in new mexico, the other in california. former president clinton is campaigning in california and hillary clinton has one event in florida. for more on today's top stories let's bring in jane tim and jonathan allen.
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with a good morning to you both. let's look at this new release from moody's which has predicted the outcome of every election since 1980. it projects that the democratic nominee will win by more than 100 electoral votes in november. jane, what does donald trump need to be doing right now to translate his primary victory into electoral college one? >> this is going to be a pretty big pivot for donald trump. he needs to unite the conservative movement and we see him trying to do that releasing picks for the supreme court, his supposed picks, but he also needs to make pretty big inroads with women. women are 53% of the voters, in 2012. and he has really bad approval numbers with women. women don't see him favorably. across the board. so younger, single women, tend to vote democratic. that's a hard group for him. but mitt romney won married women in the last election. so he and he has 70% of those
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married women don't see donald trump favorably. so he needs to turn those numbers around and turn them around quickly. i think you'll see a lot of his daughter and talk about him promoting women in his company, those are the two things that he really seems to push forward when this women o'tack comes. he needs to turn it around quickly. >> looking at the article you wrote yesterday you talked about the states which will be the biggest challenges for donald trump and why. talk about those. >> you know, he wants to rewrite the electoral map. these are states we're talking about, michigan, maine, wisconsin, pennsylvania, these are states the democrats haven't won in a presidential year in 20 years. but donald trump has a different advantage than mitt romney. he appeals to white blue color workers, union works. i think he's going to try to pull those out. but the problem we see in these states where he may pull a significant number of democratic voters who are frustrated with their own party, may pull them to his side is he lose republican voters who just can't
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get behind the trump train. >> so jonathan, the new fec filings show clinton's campaign far bigger than donald trump's both in terms of bodies and cost. is there any way that could work against her or do they need to fan out and spend more, try to cover 50 states here. >> i think donald trump is going to have to fan out and spend more. he's joked about analytics not useful but i think he is going to lean on the republican party's infrastructure to help him run this campaign, lean on super pac money, lean on traditional republican donors that he did not lean on for the primary and the general election. i assume he will build up a big infrastructure soon. i believe most of the control for donald trump's campaign will remain with donald trump. >> according to "the new york times" clinton's super pac has $47 million to attack trump. how concerned should trump be
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and other factors more important for him. >> i think money makes a little bit of a difference at the margins. the truth is in a presidential election particularly between these two candidates everybody knows who they are. this isn't a situation where somebody has to get out and get known. i think the money is going to be really good for people who make ads, for people who do direct mail, but at the end of the day i think the public is going to choose based on the best candidate, not who has more money to spend. >> another interesting tidbit, jane, out about new filing that trump's top super pac says more than 80% donations were small, less than $200. does that back up bernie sanders argument that he's the better candidate to head off trump, that they have comparable levels of grass root support? >> i'd argue that maybe some of trump supporters who aren't typical political activists, might be getting confused between the campaign and the super pac. donald trump has refused to get behind super pacs.
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now we see a super pac, they have yet to deny or sort of say that they would like it to cease and desist which they have done in the past. that sprouted up to support him. we see former carson campaign staffers running that. i'm not sure it's grass roots support. he has a lot of it but it may be some confusion by people new to politics. >> okay, guys, thank you so much. well, donald trump has what he calls three great words and he told them to a group of hispanic voters last night. u sh. you stay up. you listen. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future, we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped families just like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready, start with us. doing the right thing has never been easier.
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under a threat like never before. crooked hillary clinton is the
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most anti-gun, anti-second amendment candidate ever to run for office. >> that was donald trump speaking at the nra's annual convention in louisville kentucky. shortly before walking on stage the presumptive gop nominee was endorsed by the lobby group. and nbc's jacob rascon is outside of trump tower here in manhattan. what else did donald trump say? >> reporter: it was a big night for donald trump, big endorsement he got. now as the polls are showing the race tightening between him and clinton, they are both rushing to paint each other unacceptable alternative. last night they were reaching out in pretaped videos to a demographic they both desperately need. >> i just want to thank everybody. we're going to work hard. >> it's a tough sell for donald trump. promising hispanic voters in a pretaped video, i'm on your side. >> national hispanic christian, three great words.
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>> the mostly republican crowd not impressed. >> you're going to like president trump. >> let's pray. >> i've been a person of faith all my life. >> hillary clinton's pitch more polished and direct. >> you know, we're hearing some divisive and dangerous rhetoric in this election. we have a candidate who wants to tear families apart. >> the front-runners are at war, trump tweeting about crooked hillary at all hours of the day, zero imagination and less stamina, he says. dishonest. at the nra convention in kentucky where trump picked up the gun lobby's endorsement even though he once supported assault rifle ban, trump saying the stakes have never been higher for gun owners. >> hillary clinton wants to abolish the second amendment. remember that. we're not talking about change it. she wants to abolish the second amendment. >> hillary clinton meanwhile,
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more direct than ever, tweeting trump is unqualified to be president. >> thank you all. >> and don't forget about us, bernie sanders and his supporters say. not ready to back down, his rallies still drawing thousands. the democrats struggling to unite as more republicans fall in line. >> i was a rubio guy but marco lost and i will enthusiastically support the republican nominee. >> reporter: donald trump is off this weekend before he heads west for more rallies, and his first major fund-raiser in california. today his democratic rivals and surrogates are campaigning in california, new mexico and florida. and another note on that video that you saw, the video that donald trump and hillary clinton played for that hispanic group, that was an evangelical mostly conservative group, but as we know a tough sell for donald trump, somebody who kicked off his campaign saying that some mexicans are rapists and criminals that set off a
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firestorm. talking about build the wall, the leader of that group said it would be a miracle if he were to end up getting their support. >> don't think we'll forget the way he kicked off that campaign. jacob, thank you so much. coming up, the latest on an armed man who was shot outside of the white house by secret service, including what was found inside his car. every time i drive. ...want my number? and cash back for driving safe. and the power to automatically find your car... i see you car! and i got the power to know who's coming and when if i break down. ...you must be gerry. hey... in means getting more from your car insurance withhe all-powerful drivewise app. it's good to be in, good hands. olay regenerist renews from within... plumping surface cells for a dramatic transformation -without the need for fillers.
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this morning the secret service is investigating the moments which led up to a shooting outside the white house. it started when a man carrying handgun approached a check point and refused to drop his weapon. nbc's jim miklaszewski has the latest on the investigation. >> reporter: the scene at the white house suddenly exploded with shouts of shots fired, secret service officers scrambled to posts. >> we have a shooting. >> reporter: the suspect identified as jesse olivieri of pennsylvania was openly carrying handgun as he walked directly toward a security outpost at the
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southeast corner of the white house grounds. >> so he had a gun out, just in plain sight. it wasn't even hidden. >> reporter: taylor said it looked as if he was in a trance. >> he had a mission cdoing that. >> reporter: officers repeatedly ordered the armed man to halt. >> drop your guns, he walked toward the officers, he kept on walking in. >> reporter: one secret service agent fired a single shot striking the suspect in the chest. he was seriously wounded and rushed to george washington 4079. it's only the latest in a long string of bizarre and potentially deadly assaults on the white house. a pilot killed himself when he flew his plane into the white house. a gunman sprayed the front of the white house with automatic weapons fire. and most recently, an armed fence jumper made it all the way into the white house. >> that was jim miklaszewski reporting there. a ninth person died after being injured in a texas bus crash.
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the 83-year-old man was in the hospital since last weekend's crash and died yesterday. right now the cause of the crash under investigation. joaquin guzman plans to fight extradition to the u.s. mexico approved after they were assured the drug lord would not face the death penalty. guzman could face charges including drug trafficking, money laundering and murder. it's not clear where or when guzman will be sent to the u.s. right now the loan remaining external fuel tank from nasa's space shuttle program is slowly making its way across los angeles. the big move began after midnight local time and is expected to take 13 to 18 hours to inch down 16 miles of streets, it will join a display of the retired orbiter endeavor at the california science center. >> the smoke detected on the egyptair plane, what investigators can learn, next. pet moments are beautiful,
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♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ welcome back.
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i'm alex witt here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. new revelations in the egypt air plane crash. investigators saying smoke was detected on multiple spots aboard the jetliner before it went down. as we bring you new video, we just got this in showing it to you as we're playing it for the first time. it does not explain what caused the airbus a320 to plummet. this is new video released by the egyptian military. search crews are focusing efforts on locating the black boxes which could provide information as to what happened. joining me from cairo, is bill neely. good morning to you. what are you hearing from egyptian officials? >> reporter: yes, good morning, alex. good morning everyone. the key information that's not come from here in cairo, but from paris, where french air accident investigators have confirmed that there were
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serious technical problems on board that plane. remember, the airbus is virtually driven by computers but they were failing. the cause was smoke. as you say, this morning what we've been waiting for, especially the relatives of those missing, new pictures of the debris from the plane. as the search widens this morning, grim discoveries, egyptian planes finding body parts, suit cases and aircraft seats. investigators sure they are from the missing plane. this was the airbus that spiraled into the sea, but as it did it sent flight data, pointing to serious problems around the cockpit. sensors on a window went off, one apparently opened. then a smoke sensor in the forward lavatory, a minute later smoke in the avionics bay which controls the plane, then another window sensor, finally, critically, problems with the pilots' controls and computers.
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terror or an accident? we don't know yet exactly but it's a clear indication something was terribly wrong on flight 804. >> reporter: egyptair says there is nothing to suggest technical problems. >> my first concern is taking care of the passengers. and then we get from our sources the information we're going to be transparent. >> reporter: u.s. search planes have joined the hunt which now covers an area of 5,000 square miles. in a cairo mosque, the bereaved struggle with their loss. this film director lost four members of his family. one of the french dead lost his passport but it was found on the street, and he boarded the plane. a french war ship is joining a multinational search to find the plane, its flight recorders, and answers. at the paris airport from where the plane took off, security is even tighter.
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and everyone who had contact with it on the ground is being questioned. it's 74 minutes there, perhaps critical in explaining what caused it to disappear. >> reporter: for the families of course alex, this is torture. the french foreign minister met 50 of the waiting relatives in paris. he said they showed intense emotion, and huge dignity and he reassured them they would know immediately everhing that the investigators learn. but there's the problem, there is so much they, and we, simply don't know. alex. >> some are saying it's going to take months till we get to the bottom of everything. thank you so much, bill neely. french investigators confirmed smoke was detected aboard the flight moments before it disappeared from radar. let's bring in former senior air safety investigator with the ntsb, greg has been following this story from the beginning. greg, with a good morning to
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you, okay, this automated data sent from the plane indicates a sensor detected smoke in the front lavatory, indicated smoke was also present in the avionics compartme compartment. is that unusual? what does that tell you? >> when you look at all of the data, alex, the avionics compartment resides underneath the cockpit and actually extends back toward the tail of the airplane under the galley. so that's a large area. the forward lav is up above the floor line. so to have smoke in both places, you look at the timing of those faults, you know that whatever happened has blossomed that smoke both above the floor line and below. so, fires don't normally have smoke that goes down, the fires burn up. so does smoke. smoke rises. so either something happened down below the floor line, or if something did happen above floor line, it blew a plume of smoke
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downward. so investigators will be looking for evidence of explosion or intense fire. >> so, some of the search teams have recovered debris, some human remains, what are investigators going to look for when they examine what is recovered? >> there's going to be a forensic examination of whatever has been recovered of the human remains. looking for evidence of? rap nell, for evidence of any chemical residue you would see if there was an explosive device and if these people were in the immediate area of that explosive device. so, there will be a forensic autopsy if you will, of those particular body parts that have been recovered. all of the other materials, the materials from the aircraft, the seats and that kind of stuff, there will also be a forensic examination, again looking for any kind of chemical residue, burning, you'll have a flash fire typically in an explosion so you'll look for burn patterns
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and of course you'll be looking for any kind of penetration of shrapnel, i saw parts recovered looks like from the air frame so they will look at those. then of course the seats, some of those life vests and any of the clothing that has been recovered as well. >> so, physical evidence of the wreckage, hopefully you get the flight data recorders which gives you that information but the human component, greg, we talk about how important that is. the manifest of the people on board, airline employees who had access to this plane, a plane which traveled multiple stops that day. >> that's going to be -- when you look at the whole investigative process, alex, there's multiple parts to this. there is the security aspect. so when you look at the security investigation, they are going back and looking at, again, all of the people that had any access to the airplane on those multiple legs. because this was the fifth leg of the day. so, they will look to see who
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had access to it. what type of people had access to it. you have to look at the caterers, the maintenance folks, just the ramp people that have access into the cargo hold loading the baggage and that kind of thing. and the cleaners that come on and typically clean. so they will examine that from a security standpoint. the technical aspect as you mentioned, is going to include cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder data once they find the main debris field. we've only found floating debris. they haven't found this airplane yet so that's why the search is still going on. to try and find the main debris field. that's going to be critical to determine whether or not we had an in-flight breakup and then looking to see if it was due to an explosion or just a loss of control in aerodynamics pulling parts off the airplane. there are multiple aspects to this investigation. >> okay. greg, always appreciate your insight. thanks so much. a poll that shows a third
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approaching 44 past. more politics now. a look at where the candidates are. hillary clinton will deliver the key note speech in ft. lauderdale tonight. bernie sanders is in new mexico and california. former president bill clinton campaigning in california. donald trump is off the campaign trail after picking up the nra endorsement yesterday. he made this promise to its members while talking about san bernardino and other shootings. >> if we had guns in the other side it wouldn't have been that way. i would have, boom, freeze zones. getting rid of gun free zones i can tell you. >> joining me now is joe watkins, a republican strategist and former bush white house aide. also rick tyler, mkz political analyst.
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good morning to you. >> good morning. >> so joe, i'll start with you. i want your reaction to the length donald trump is going in order to stay on the nra's good side. how do you read it? >> well, he's a smart guy. a lot of these groups are going to get in line now. donald trump, you look at the numbers nationally, this is a competitive race. and you're going to see a lot of these groups, the nra and others even if he doesn't support every plank of the platform, supporting him and doing it with gusto. they think that trump has a chance to win and they are going to be behind him. >> you think they are getting in line because they believe in donald trump the man or don't want hillary clinton to get to the white house? >> they want to have a seat at the table. for all of these groups, they want to have a seat at the table with the person who is president of the united states. if the their candidate has a shot to win they are going to do everything to make sure that person wins so once that person is president of the united states they can be right there at the table to make sure they are heard. >> and this message he's giving now, joe, or rather rick, that
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donald trump calling clinton the most anti-gun candidate ever. how effective will that be as we pivot to a general election? >> i think joe is right, this is more about donald trump solidifying the base than hillary clinton. the people in the room at the nra donald trump is speaking to are more than likely not going to vote for hillary clinton. the nra believes they have a likelihood of working with donald trump, they don't believe they have a likelihood of working with hillary clinton on their issue, the second amendment. >> joe, later today i'm going to speak with gary johnson, he is finally being polled and he came in at 10% in one conducted by fox news. and there is a chance another former republican governor, bill weld of massachusetts, could run as his veep. to whom does johnson pose the bigger threat, trump or clinton? >> it's hard to say. bill weld is a great guy, very well respected. went to a great school, middlesex school where i went to school and bill richardson went to school. i'm not convinced.
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no matter the early polling that there is enough oxygen in this campaign for gary johnson and bill weld to take hold. this is a year folks who are anti-establishment, who are outsiders gained traction. witness donald trump and his rise. and on the left side bernie sanders who has been an anti-establishment outsider candidate who has done extraordinarily well and won't go away. still early. >> but rick, just last week gary johnson said that if he polled well enough he would and should be included in the fall debates. do you see that happening? would you welcome that? >> well, look, if he can get the poll numbers he should be in the debates. i think he hurts donald trump. i don't think to the extent, the most that gary johnson could possibly do is deny clinton enough electoral votes to win the presidency and then that would be decided i believe by the house of representatives. i don't think the house of representatives is going to pick
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gary johnson over donald trump. so, he could hurt -- he would hurt donald trump more but look, bill weld, despite be being a great guy is a moderate. and i think trump really needs to solidify the conservatives, that's what gary johnson should be trying to take away. bill weld doesn't do that. >> don't you think, rick, gary johnson is the perfect candidate for the never trump, never clinton crowd? there is a crowd there. >> yes, there is -- yes, he will become the vehicle for that. but it depends how much. look, donald trump is beginning to do a good job of solidifying the republican party behind him. his speech at the nra was more measured than i've been used to but look, everybody says -- every four years time for a third party, the libertarian party never happens. and i don't think it's going to happen this time either. >> so joe, congressman trey gowdy told him that the benghazi report will come out before the conventions. how much leverage does benghazi
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give donald trump against hillary clinton in the general election? >> you know, becomes a talking point for him but at the end of the day i don't know that it does more damage than it's done. i think that i don't see any of hillary's base supporters saying you no because the report has come out i'm not going to vote for her. you know, i think it's something to discuss depending on the outcome, if there is anything new that we find out in the report, anything that we don't currently know that might be something to talk about and to certainly use against secretary clinton. but i don't see it having a huge effect. >> do you think, rick, that the democrats have effectively turned benghazi against donald trump? >> well, no. look, three things in the benghazi report that are troubling. everybody knows them like joe said. but it -- donald trump has a way of sucking up the oxygen when he has something to talk about. he is going to want to talk about why embass door stevens repeated requests for more security weren't honored. talk about why hillary clinton
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destabilized libya to begin with because she was the one who almost unilaterally went in there and third, why she talked about -- third is wye she the area, anyway, because she sent him in there, and he's going to want to talk about the three-way phone call. that's the main thing she went up against barack obama about, and we find that nobody answers the phone at 3:00 a.m. and why did she blame the youtube video on him? those three things will come up during the debate. energy independence no longer a dream, but politicians still want americans to conserve. a new book examines where presidents and presidential candidates have failed.
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climate change and economic and environmental costs of fossil fuels, americans consume energy at a high rate. in fact, the government shows the u.s., 5% of the world's population, consumes 20% of the world's supply. a new book examines why political leaders haven't been able to make an effective policy. will the new one be able to do any better? meg, good morning to you. this is interesting stuff. i'm curious how you read the current slade in terms of pushing toward lower energy consumption. >> well, it's always on the agenda to talk about american energy, but whether or not politicians want to talk about the need to use less is something that has been controversial throughout your history, and no one is really talking about the need to cut back even if some of the democrats want to talk about climate change. >> and you write that the u.s., in fact, has been seeking energy
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independence since that 1973 oil embargo which was imposed by the oil-producing nations against israel and yom kippur. what role did that play in terms of current oil embargo policy? >> it came as a shock. americans didn't know they imported any oil at all, and since then we've had the language ofdependence, that is, the fear we would be dependent on oil from abroad. that's changed recently because of fracking, so the conversation today is less about dependence and more about climate change. >> so there is no conversation that would have concerns that were vulnerable to a similar action? >> not exactly at this moment today with really more of a concern about a glut on the market and low prices. that's the exact opposite of the situation in the 1970s when the energy crisis really first came onto the political agenda in a
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serious way. >> meg, why do you think presidents and otherwise have not been able to convince americans to reduce energy use? >> well, jimmy carter tried. he's probably the person -- the president who -- >> with the solar panels, too. that was something on top of the white house. >> exactly. he's the president who tried the most to tackle this issue of conservation head on, and in the summer of 1979 when gas lines dotted the american landscape with cars 500 deep, he appealed to americans to cut back. he went on national television and said we really need to use less, and his polls numbers did not support that kind of appeal. >> and as you know, oil prices continue to decline even though americans are consuming more fossil fuels. have low prices given americans a false sense of security about the energy supply? >> well, we've seen that when energy prices decline, americans use more. so, for example, as soon as oil prices at the pump decline,
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people are more inclined to buy suvs and less energy-efficient cars, so this is a direct correlation there. there's no sense that tomorrow our situation could change. >> all right. meg jacobs, thank you very much for the insights. appreciate it. >> thank you so much for having me. bill clinton's opinions, will it affect hillary clinton's campaign? some looks ahead. like claim free rewards... or safe driving bonus checks. even a claim satisfaction guaranteeeeeeeeeee! in means protection plus unique extras only from an expert allstate agent. it's good to be in, good hands.
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