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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  May 23, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PDT

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hillary clinton's two front war. let's play hardball. good evening. hillary clinton substantials as the chief strategist of the stop trump movement. 16 republicans tried to beat trump. the national republican establishment and allies tried to stop to no effect. hillary clinton stands as the last barricade. as i said, the chief strategist in the latest stop trump movement. a last-ditch effort before. all convinced their mission would prove ultimately successful. let's admit this basic fact tonight. since this 2016 presidential campaign got its start, we heard candidate after candidate agree they would certainly beat trump if they got them in debate or one on one or people got a good
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look at him. they each said this and with the republican voters sharing a full look at trump in broad daylight, they are moving to support him by the rate of nine out of ten and it's only may. meanwhile, the latest national polling shows the man everyone thought they could beat running even with the person would so convincingly kill him in the general. that's hillary clinton. what the heck is happening? yesterday hillary clinton passed, well she pressed her case. >> i do not want americans and, you know, good-thinking republicans, as well as democrats and indedents to start to believe this is a normal candidacy. it isn't. as we go through this campaign, we're going to be demonstrating the hollowness of his rhetoric and the danger of a lot of what he has said. >> well, secretary clinton also went after trump this afternoon on immigration, the economy, and his temperament.
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let's watch that. >> he could bankrupt americarupt companies. ask yourself, how could anybody lose money running a casino? really? donald trump talks about deporting 11 million immigrants, he's talking about ripping apart families like carla's. he's talking about sending a deportation force to schools, workplaces and homes to round up moms, dads, grandparents, even children. we need a president who will use the bully pulpit to stand up for working families but the last thing we need is a bully in the pulpit. >> meanwhile, the new nbc wall street journal poll shows the national race this coming november is tightening. clinton leads trump by three points which as we know within the margin of error. last month clinton had an 11-point. 50-39 back in april.
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that's only a month ago. the poll shows clinton and trump both have deficits to make up, of course. clinton does well with african american voters. we know that. 88-9. she leads with latinos by almost 50 points and a 13-point edge with women. she used to have a bigger one, though, and with young people favor her by double digits, as well. trump has a 16-point advantage among whites. he leads with older voters, with men and independents and one other thing helping trump, republicans back trump 86-6. they said about nine out of ten against clinton. all these republican women are falling in line, too. david for mother jones and jay newten smalls, and washington correspondent for time and ann coulter is a columnist in "for trump we trust". >> they believe in conformity.
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it's not a bad thing. you play golf and read the wall street journal and good stuff and nothing wrong with it. don't be weird and drive a strange-looking car. i didn't think it would happen this fast. 86% are with trump already and it's only may. what causes republicans to congel so quickly for a man that was aproblem for a lot of them? >> two things, one is all they heard about trump for people that aren't political nuts watching him. all they heard for nine, ten months is a he's a clown. he's dangerous. that's all they have been hearing now that he's gotten the nomination for one thing they think that can't be true and also probably some of them are actually listening to him. so i do think the more people see him, the more they will think oh, okay. >> what happened to the power of people like paul ryan goes i don't know. i'm not sure. maybe some day and yet, he represents, which is probably appropriate 8% of the party
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which says they are not ready for trump yet, that 8%. >> that's right. >> that usually likes congress. >> i don't think anyone cares when or how quickly paul ryan endorses trump. the ones that are still hanging on bit early to the never trump movement, let's say there are, you know, 10,000 of them. they all live in the washington d.c. area or the new york city area. mean while, you know 20,000 in massachusetts democrats, republican devote for trump, 60 ,000 in pennsylvania. trump isn't going to carry manhattan and the suburbs and washington d.c. in the suburbs. that's the never trump movement. >> you failed to mention the 20 have op ed pieces. aren't you amazed by looking at the other side? democrats don't unite this quick. what is going on with hillary and bernie right now? that's not uniting. >> trump won and winning gets you pretty far down the road and on the republican side as we've
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seen for the last eight years, there is tremendous towards the president and left with nobody else but trump, republicans are saying, a lot of them slugging their shoulders saying we'll go with trump. >> they will go with him, not just against hillary. all this stuff -- >> they are voting -- >> about cruz' father being involved with assassinations. >> they didn't know and the fact they want to keep muslims out. >> that doesn't bother them. >> the last -- >> nothing bothers them. >> that doesn't bother them. >> a lot doesn't bother them but live in a system and these people hate hillary more than they may like trump. >> independents are now for trump. the margin for hillary has really gone down. what's happened? >> well, again, hilary is still in the middle of a primary and duking it out with sanders and on attack. to some degree it's hard to be likable when all you do is attack all the time.
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she's all sharp elbows. >> and closing the show. if you're always attacking, it's hard to look likable. hillary clinton is going after trump over his refusing to far to release his tax returns and weigh whether it matters to the average joe or jane out there. it doesn't matter. let's watch. >> is there anything donald trump has done that you think should be praised? >> i think he needs to release his tax returns, the only two we have show that he hasn't paid a penny in taxes and yet, he goes around talking about make america great. you know, that means paying for our military. that means paying for our roads. that means paying for the v.a. that means a lot of things and if you've got someone running for president afraid to release his tax returns because it will expose the fact that he pays no federal income tax, that's a big problem. >> my question is there is nothing about his background that's praise worthy? >> we'll find out because we have to get below the hype.
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we have to find what the reality is. >> ann coulter, do you like the way -- maybe you do this occasionally, totally, utterly freaking ignore the question. anything praise worthy? the commentator said is there nothing good you can say about your opponent, he should release his taxes. anyway, what is better for trump? i think he thinks it's better to release them than not. he must feel there is something there if he releases it, more bad news good news than holding out. >> i think the reason he says he won't release them is the reason he won't release them. he's under an audit and for people to go around and say but it's legal for you to release them, yeah, okay, somebody charged with murder, it's legal for him to talk to the press, i'm pretty sure his lawyer will tell him not to. if he releases his taxes, if i can make this one point because i don't think i've heard it, what he is doing is releasing every tax attorney in america to pour through his tax returns and do pro bono work for the irs.
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>> poor baby, every other president has done that. nixon, when he was under audit because you can tell whether he's hiding money offshore, whether he gives money to charity. >> exactly. why should he? >> okay. so that's good. you want a crook in the white house, go ahead and do that. >> he's not a crook. >> we don't know if he's a crook or not. >> we don't know if you're a crook. >> he's not running for president. >> he's running for president. every other -- >> i promise you his supporters don't care. >> there is no releasing because >> let me ask -- >> politicians if they have something that looks worse than it -- i'm sorry, looks better than it is, they leave it quiet. if it's better than it looks, they will show you the stuff. >> i don't think that's true here. taxes are complicated. >> no need to hide. >> let's see if you're consistent because nobody is. let me ask you, jane apparently busy going over the taxes of bernie sanders for the last 10, 20 years.
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she hasn't gotten them done yet. jane is working on them. i don't know how many extensions they got but over -- do you believe his explanation that jane is busy doing the paperwork for the family, do you think he's right like trump. do you believe trump? >> are you talking to me? >> of course i am. you know i am. don't pull that one. >> i'm not really that into the tax returns. >> here it goes. >> any of them. i did want to see bill clinton's medical report. the first time we didn't see a president's medical report and i see this from david -- >> want to see the tax returns -- >> i don't think supporters care. >> do you want to know what clinton's health records are personally? >> me? >> he's not president anymore. i did before he was president but he refused to release them. the first president to refuse to release them. >> okay. you're being coy.
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>> no, i'm not. good grief, everything trump is talking about. i wonder how many diseases he has. >> we should get trump -- >> there you go. >> we should also get trump's medical records according to ann. >> we do. remember, we got that -- >> psychiatric hospital -- >> we got a fantastic report. >> we got one piece from a doctor. that the not his medical record but a doctor that signed a piece of paper. >> very healthy. >> seal this off -- >> we don't know. >> we have records when he applied for a casino license in jersey in '81, '80 and he discovered he didn't pay any taxes for those years. does that bother you? is that a leading indicator he has problems with not paying taxes? is that a problem? not disclosing tax returns but indication from the earlier returns he doesn't pay taxes. is that a problem if that gets out? >> sorry, to me again? >> yeah. i'm sorry, i can't tell who
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you're talking to. is it a problem if it gets out? i'm not sure. >> not paying any taxes. >> i don't think his supporters care. i really don't -- >> jane -- >> not paying taxes might be a little bit of a problem. on the other hand, i don't think he did it illegitimately. >> of course. >> there are tax breaks for real estate and maybe that should be changed. >> i asked him that 17 years ago. i said real estate guys have a way to not pay taxes. what is more important to voters, full disclosure or paying taxes if you're rich, really rich, billionaire? >> paying taxes absolutely. the point of the system you have to tax -- isn't that the point. >> ability to pay. >> you have to be able to pay. if you don't pay your taxes -- >> the reason why trump is probably not releasing taxes. >> trump keeps telling you of a rigged system. if he's taking advantage voters will know that. lobbyists getting tax breaks and with his own tax --
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>> it's not lobbiests. i mean, we have made a social policy that the mortgage tax deduction for example, makes no sense is a good idea and all kinds of breaks for real estate because there is a social policy to encourage people like donald trump to pull things like trump tower. >> if you're running on strength and your selling point is i'm a phenomenal businessman and done amazing things in business and made a ton of money but you won't show us how much money you've made -- >> he's not going to do it. why is he doing so well in the polls? they know he won't do it. the public knows he's not going to release returns. he's not going to release them. >> he's playing a conn. >> he's not playing a conn. >> yes, he's not telling us what he has. >> his supporters -- >> i don't think we'll see a headline in the new york times the day after this election in november that says trump lost by 1% because he wouldn't release his tax returns. anyway, thank you very much.
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i don't believe the reason he gave is the reason, though. it's not the audit. nice try. >> of course it is. >> you're a trooper, ann. >> ann supporters love him more for annoying the press by not releasing his taxes. >> okay. when you have your book, we'll have you on, ann. thank you. >> coming up, bernie sanders is at war with the democratic party and endorsed the party challenging debbie schultz. when we come back, jeff weaver will be here and i want to know what it will take to get bernie on board with the democratic ticket and could donald trump turn pennsylvania from blue to red? there are worrying signs for hillary clinton in the western part of the state steel country where traditional democratic voters are flirting with backing trump and three things you might not be aware of about the looming general election battle between clinton and trump. the "hardball" round table is here to tell us something we don't know and i finish with hillary clinton's two-front war. this is "hardball" a place for politics.
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engaged in a territorial despite with vietnam in the south china sea. this is obama's tenth trip. on friday obama is scheduled to be the first sitting president to visit the first japanese city destroyed with a bomb killing 140,000 people and we'll be right back.
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over 400 of these superdelegates in kated their support for secretary clinton before anyone else was in the
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race before the first ballot was cast. that is what the anointment process is about and it is a bad idea. >> welcome back to "hardball." bernie sanders on friday accusing the democratic party. sanders ramped up attacks as the national party is set to offer concessions on the platform committee. yesterday senator sanders went after dnc chair and u.s. congressman debbie schultz saying he'll support her primary challenger in florida and also he wouldn't reappoint her to the dnc if he's elected president. >> clearly i favor her opponent. his views are much closer to mine than his schultz'. let me also say in all due respect to the.
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>> when somebody says with all due respect, duck. have you endorsed hillary clinton? >> no, i have not. >> jeff, let's get the facts here. this is what i call trouble i'm about to start here. i'm told by the experts with numbers here around mbc and elsewhere, i totally understand wants to get to and maybe have a chance of knocking off hillhilla that at 8:00 that night eastern time the networks will be prepared to announce hillary clinton has now gotten over the top, that she will have won the nomination in numbers. it's done. what will do that if that's 5:00 pacific time with three more hours to vote in california, who will be least likely to vote, sanders people from five to eight or hillary? i heard both thetheories. >> i think it will depress
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turnout on both sides. whenever there is no contest, you get turnout on both sides. it will be an inaccurate description -- >> so that race will be wrong. >> yes, because all we have is essentially a poll. they don't actually vote. >> so you look with a straight face you're telling me delegates are going for hillary or not going for hillary. >> are going for. >> are going to go for trump? >> look -- >> are you saying that? i can see you laughing inside. you're laughing inside. >> it was laughable, chris, there are polls in california you weren't allocating delegates but you are allocaing delegates. >> surely you can count pledged delegates. not bound but pledged. so the only way your theory works is if pledged delegates break the pledge. >> superdelegates. unpledged delegates, not pledged delegates. >> pledged -- >> i don't want to have this conversation. i thought it would be obvious to do that this would be a problem for you guys. >> it's a problem for everybody. >> you're not -- >> you're not issuing a grievance but saying --
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>> not yet, chris. i think it's wrong. >> you think it's wrong to announce he's winning? >> no, to make a presumptive nominee announcement when in fact, that's not the case. the superdelegates vote at the convention. let's wait before we call it over. >> even though they already expressed how they would vote. >> if you do a poll in california today. >> let me ask you how we'll get by this. you guys have done well in the primaries. a lot of people are passionate for senator sanders and you have the right to demand certain things. i'm going over the list of things and tell me the ones you think are really important. really important to get through. bernie sanders says if i don't get to be the nominee, they will stand for the following. abolish superdelegates, how important is that? >> he's spoken about it. at least perform substantially. >> very important to you. >> how about caucus issue. >> we've been to a lot of caucuses. >> hope and primaries.
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>> absolutely. >> that's a big one. okay, what about prime time debates, not weekend jobs. >> and more of them. >> real debates. screwed on that. 15 -- >> sure. >> the platform. >> that's extremely important. >> even-handed policy on the middle east. >> i think the senator has spoken about that. >> health care has a right. >> absolutely 100%. >> social security increased benefits. >> yes. >> can you point out which ones would be. suppose hillary clinton put her handout and said i'm not doing any of that, i won. >> there is a host of others with climate change -- >> i could do it. >> sure, of course. >> is there anything you would say if she doesn't deal with us on issues, we won't endorse her. >> there will be a process at the convention. bernie sanders -- >> even if she straight arms him? >> i don't think they will do that. >> even if they do. >> then the sky falls and the convention -- >> what do you think, steve? do you think hillary clinton will agree to a $15 minimum wage?
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will she go to an even-handed policy with the policy? i think these are difficult for her. she's a regular democratic politician. these are hard to do. >> they are hard to do and one of the reasons i think senator sanders is raising it is because he knows and you have to separate the policy -- >> just making trouble. >> i'm not saying that. i think you have to separate the policy arguments that are being had in the primary. from the process ones the sanders campaign knew about from the beginning. hillary clinton in 2008 would have probably been the nominee if howard dean allowed michigan and florida to vote over again. but there were rules and rules that hillary clinton signed up for that barack obama signed up for, that howard dean enforced. hillary clinton wasn't happy but not doing this. >> the future -- >> rules for the future, absolutely. >> senator sanders called the choice a choice between the lesser of two evils. let's watch. two evils. >> we need a campaign, an election coming up which does not have two candidates who are really very, very strongly
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disliked. i don't want to see the american people voting for the lesser of two evils. >> is that how you would describe hillary clinton against donald trump, the lesser of two evils? >> well, if you look -- i couldn't describe it. that's what the american people are saying. >> what do you think of that? >> what he's pointing out -- >> one of the two evils. >> very high negatives. go back to the $15 minimum wage. let me say i think there is support -- >> unpopularity is not evil. he said evils. >> there will be support on the convention floor for $15 and we'll have a minority report out of the platform committee. >> you may win on that. i'm not suggesting -- >> that's where the democratic party is. >> i think some democrats are objecting to the notion somehow we have to overturn the rules for bernie sanders to be successful. >> don't say yes to that. >> he got 3 million viewer votes than hillary. >> do you think the democratic party itself is too -- not significantly enough, sufficiently progressive?
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>> the ranking file of the party is further to the left than much of the old leadership. >> he's absolutely right. >> do you think the party -- i'm not -- i guess i'm fishing here. i grew up in a world where you had political parties around the world. they are not so much different than ours. they tend to be left in europe and new zealand and canada, a little to the left and have names like christian democrats, social democrats. your candidate is confident with the crowd. >> yes. >> people like that. the british government. >> labor party. >> do you think the democratic party should change its name. >> no. >> or democratic socialist. >> what the democratic party should do is change policies to reflect the file of the party. the party structure should be a reflection -- >> bernie sanders goes under the flag of democratic socialists and if he becomes the nominee of the party, he sets the agenda of the party, why wouldn't the party want to use the name?
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>> because it's the democratic party. look, it just needs to change policies to reflect -- >> the minnesota party is called the democratic -- so i can't hook you into this. >> you can't. >> are you a social democrat? are you a democratic socialist? >> i'm comfortable with social democratic -- >> no, she's made it clear. that's not a -- >> everyone admires -- >> hasn't done any good. >> the question is at what point do we turn our attention -- >> okay. here is the problem. you just opened the door and i want to answer it. most democrats that like hillary clinton really like bernie sanders, too, but support hillary for the nomination but most guys that support your candidate don't like hillary. that's dramatic. that's a pretty dramatic problem. >> the nbc polls show the sanders people are red sent about hillary clinton.
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>> you people -- >> you people -- [ laughter ] >> sanders' people don't like -- >> it's all out now. >> sanders' people don't like hillary. i looked at the numbers today. it's amazing. it will be hard to draw her into the hillary camp. >> barack obama won in 2008 and brought the same people in the same proportion and concerned about him. >> you're going back to the past. >> can you make a bet? come the end of july will the democratic party be united? >> after the convention, yes. >> it will depend on senator sanders. >> and secretary clinton reaching out to millions of people -- >> did you hear what he said on ""saturday night live" he'll be the next senator from vermont. thank you jeff weaver. i don't know what i learned tonight. this guy is a little difficult. steve mcman, thank you. could my home state of pennsylvania tip the scales? i've been wondering and jacob is going to have to find out. he heads to steel country to see what voters are thinking and feeling about this race for the white house.
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not too shocking but disturbing if you're a progressive democrat. this is "hardball" the place for politics.
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i'm melissa. welcome back to "hardball." the state of pennsylvania is hyped as a battle ground and cast votes for the democratic candidate in the last six elections. the last time pennsylvania went red was when george herbert walker bush ran for president back in 1988. yet, there are new signs this time that the keystone state could be up for grabs again in 2016. msnbc jacob visited a former industrial town in western pennsylvania that seen a great deal of hardship. here is what he found. >> these trains and this town would once reliably deliver steel and politics but times have changed and this blue state could possibly turn red. so where are we, mayor? >> downtown. >> reporter: what are your
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constituents? >> democrats, always have been, blue color, blue field. that's us. >> reporter: i heard beaverer county for the first time ever has two republican county commissioners? >> commissioners. >> reporter: and one democrat. what happened? >> they don't believe in the politics and candidates anymore. this is a downtown. one time this was a bustling place. >> reporter: you'll have to forgive me but it looks pretty dead. >> that's just the way it is. it's gone. everything is gone. these were all bars, restaurants, shops, markets. everything was here. >> and now what's going on downtown? >> now you can see what is going on downtown, not a lot. >> not a lot. >> yeah. >> reporter: this is the tunnel what 11,000 people would come through every day. >> right here. industrial park. >> yeah. >> reporter: everything out here was steel. >> the whole valley. >> reporter: this is a big old empty lot. this is where you used to work? >> over here, yeah. >> reporter: it looks like we're walking on the surface of the
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moon, what goes through your head? >> man, a lot of people got, you know, financially destroyed when the mills were gone, you know. >> reporter: how many people worked out here? >> at one time like 13,000. >> 13,000 people. if you polled those 13,000 people in the hay day, what would the politics be at that time. democrats? >> a lot of democrats, right. >> reporter: you're a hillary clinton guy? >> i like hillary. things might change when it comes to the election who are knows. >> reporter: you could go trump? >> i don't know. >> reporter: a blue state. >> right. >> reporter: maybe not this year. >> i agree with you. >> reporter: how come? >> he said we'll do this and build that and bring jobs. >> reporter: and then look at this. >> nothing. >> joining me now, that is a great report. i've wanted to make that point for a long time and you did it in a documentary way. i thought the last line was to give away.
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he was hesitant to say how upset he was about the way things have been going. >> thank you, chris. it wasn't just george suitor and to hear a guy like george suitor say after a life of being part of the united steel workers and lifelong democrat he might consider going for donald trump is one thing but to hear people across this community including people that actually immigrated to the united states from poland as young kids as i did and say i've lived here my whole life. we've been democrats through and through and now considering donald trump is an entirely different thing. the biggest question there as you know, chris, better than i do is whether or not donald trump will be able to turn out enough folks and turn enough democrats red from blue to counter on the huge population centers, of course, of philadelphia and pittsburgh. >> yeah, and i always thought it would be offset, in fact, more than offset by republican women that live along the am track route and counters of philadelphia even though they have traditionally been republicans because of the income bracket usually would be
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ready to say no, i don't like trump's social views but when i looked at the polls on nbc, i said wait a minute. that's not offsetting what you discovered. it's just not there. the women's gap for example is shrinking. it's not what it was a month ago. what is going on with that? it's not offsetting what you reported on here. the men, men, and everybody going toward trump in a democratic red area. >> the -- >> blue area. >> the thing you need to look at, chris, it's just donald trump. and i know it's a crazy thing to say but people recognize this man and the reason that we are not seeing the gaps that we would normally see is because they feel familiar with him. they may not like him. i heard from men and women both that said i may not like him as a person but the things he says are so brash, it speaks so much to what we see here in this community, which is basically a post industrial waist land that just feels comfortable and feels
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right. they trust him even if they don't like him if that makes any sense. >> who do you want to sell your house, donald trump? who do you want -- there is a great gatsby thing about this guy. we'll have to judge the bag. great report. >> thanks, chris. tune in tomorrow for two editions of "hardball" at 7:00 and back at 1 1:00. up next, back to the top story of the night, a preview of the fight between trump versus hillary. clinton versus trump. you're watching "hardball" the place for politics. >> i'm alex trebek. if you're age 50 to 85, i have an important message about security. write down the number on your screen, so you can call when i finish. the lock i want to talk to you about isn't the one on your door. this is a lock
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welcome back to "hardball," it's a prospect hillary clinton never thought possible leading by only three points as the general election fight takes shape. that's the case according to the "wall street" journal poll. how will hillary clinton stop republicans? is how she described it, people usually don't do in politics on "meet the press".
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>> my campaign is not going to let donald trump try to normalize himself in this period. i do not want americans and, you know, good thinking republicans, as well as democrats and independents to start to believe that this is a normal candidacy. >> joining me tonight's round table, paul singer washington correspondent and megan murphy washington burro chief and perry bacon reporter for nbc news. perry, it's interesting, i was thinking of invasion of the body snatchers. i don't want him to think he's a regular republican. how does she stop him from what's already become a stampede of republicans? just like 88-8. >> i don't think there is anyway she can stop him. >> more people agreeing. >> you saw this is a big moment
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in the campaign where already trump is threatening to retire the republican party. hillary is wrong. >> who gave her this strategy. he said it's her strategy? >> her campaign is focused on the idea there are modern republicans that will vote for her. she needs to figure out who voted for obama. they are for trump already. that's what the data is telling us. >> bernie say out there running for president and he's a charmer for a lot of people. i think a lot sun vetted. he hasn't really been attacked viciously the way republicans would love to get ahold of the tax plan. >> running for socialist. >> socialist for everything but most important they want to tax you to death. hillary clinton is fighting trump already and fighting bernie sanders already. that doesn't give you much room for a charm offensive if you're just attacking. >> that's the problem, she's stuck in the middle. she can't appeal to fictional moderate republicans because everything she has to do talking about easing taxes and lighting up on business and moving to the right on some issues she can't do because she's waiting. so she's really caught in the hard place.
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i completely agree normalizing trump, part of the appeal is he isn't normal. that's what people find fascinating. she's really still searching for a strategy and one strategy is a positive narrative about yourself. >> is she still under attack like bernie. >> the campaign is still they are searching for the scenario and about building and cut through the post tifr vision and politics in the republican side but he had a smart idea and said every time somebody like hillary or al gore says there say risk in votes, every time in history showed it you say risky, that other guy wins. risk means different, change, it's the flip side of new and if you say risky, you know what i think, we have to make it risky. this car is a junker. i'll try a new one. something will change. >> she can also stand next to trump in the debate stage and
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say donald trump, you said the opposite thing five years ago. >> would that bother people? >> let me tell you why, the moderate republican is a trumper. we'll find jeb. now said, you know, i don't want another jeb. look who won the moderates. >> trump did the most fascinating numbers are who will be tougher on wall street. trump has a 20-point lead. donald trump lead on hillary clinton -- >> i don't know whether she's in touch. you go after people and say he's risky. we voted for him because we want to take a risk. he won't release his tax returns and my view is because he's
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smart not to release them because it's worse than it looks. if it's better, he would release them. >> look, any one of his -- >> not paying taxes for 20 years. >> what would hurt him is if his income is lower. >> business -- it's true. >> 5 million -- >> no. >> it is possible. >> i think his income would be over but the biggest thing he doesn't want to show is probably the web of companies and entities the money goes through and show what companies he has. >> why -- >> i just think we have -- people do not like tax avoiding. >> we know that 47% admit -- >> right. >> because it was condescending and looking down but if someone is in the sky making billions of dollars. >> and paying 17%, 18%. >> especially on taxes. >> if he's paying less than i am.
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>> it hurts with the upper middle class. people making 100, 150, $200 a year are paying huge taxes. a total with property and state and local, they are paying over 50% and this guy doesn't pay anything? >> and there is also an issue when he lays out what his income sources are from -- >> how do you avoid not paying property taxes in new york city when you live on fifth avenue? >> declare yourself a nonprofit. >> this is why i thought trump would have a hard time. let me forget brand-new numbers. 30% of the country is minority now. about 13% african american. latinos and 13% and 4% south and east asians, asian people. 30% this guy is not one of the guys. he's on our side and doesn't care about us. so you have to carry mathematically 70% to get 49%. 70% of white people to be blunt about it is how. how do you do that with women
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having a problem with you? >> the data suggests in the poll, he's doing hillary's white men is lower than obama, i think 33 in this number. that's where you could see some gain. i was surprised by this poll. his numbers in the polls have been in the 20s. they have not -- they are not good but they are not that much worse than romney. i thought he would believe in the teens among latinos. >> i heard the theory that's -- latin -- latinos, people of hispanics in the northeast, and it's probably would it be people that have been here awhile, two or three generations? >> i don't know. i don't know -- >> or middle class. >> a number is good. >> people paying taxes who don't like paying taxes like any republican. >> or people that don't like hillary clinton. >> this one i would start with. >> the answer to every question this election season. >> do you have an e-mail somebody can reach you with? >> yeah. >> the round table is staying with us and up next, a touching world out there. this group will tell me something i don't know, this is "hardball" the place for politics.
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larry david returned for the season sin in all lay of "saturday night live" reprising his role as bernie sanders. true to the campaign thus far, david sanders remained a thorn in hillary clinton's side. >> all right. i think i'm going to head home. don't you work too late, now. >> oh, i won't, mrs. clinton. i'm actually closing up the bar right now. so everybody's got to go. that means you too, sir. >> no freaking way!
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i'm not going anywhere! i can stay here as long as i want! >> senator sanders, i'm sorry but the night is over. >> no, no, it's not over! it's not over till i say it's over! >> oh hello, bernie. i didn't see you sitting behind me. so far behind me you can never catch up. >> we'll be right back.
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we're back with the roundtable. paul, tell me something i don't know. >> xwrels is getting into the bathroom business. not the way you think. they are passing legislation to make sure there are more baby changing stations in the
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bathrooms in the capitol building. >> in the capitol building? >> in the capitol building, the capitol complex. >> trump having a problem reaching out to corporate lobbying and banking lobbying groups who say they're scared he might attack their companies, their banks, they're refusing to engage the cam taken at all until they see what his policy prescriptions are. >> releasing campaign arizona, john mccain says in the hardest race of his life, he has a touch primary in august, then he has to appeal to the trump vote, he has to turn around and appeal to the broad irarizona electorate which is growing in terms of latino population in november. a tough election for him. >> we still like mccain? >> yes. >> thank you. i like mccain. better than the alternative. this is a general election anyway. paul singer, megan murphy. hillary clinton's two-front war. you're watching "hardball." ♪ you're not gonna watch it! ♪
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♪ no, you're not gonna watch it! ♪ ♪ we can't let you download on the goooooo! ♪
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♪ you'll just have to miss it! ♪ yeah, you'll just have to miss it! ♪ ♪ we can't let you download... uh, no thanks. i have x1 from xfinity so... don't fall for directv. xfinity lets you download your shows from anywhere. i used to like that song. let me finish with this. hillary clinton's up to her elbows in alligators trying desperately to free herselfed from tentacles of bernie sanders, who's fighting to the last delegate and to the last provision of the democratic party platform. if he can't get the nomination he wants the party to say not what she wants it to say but what he wants it to say and he's not making any bones about it. she's also trying with equal desperation to keep republicans from uniting around donald trump, who unlike her has his nomination locked up. she's trying to dissuade republicans who intend to fall in line even when lot in love, avoiding trying to keep voters
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from falling less in love with her. so it's a three-way struggle for the former secretary of state. a struggle pulling her down in the polls costing her the large gap in support she enjoyed among women voters and driving up the gap trump has among men. the question hillary clinton faces this late spring is what does she have to do to fight her way out of this two-front war with trump and bernie? because until she does it's hard to see how she begins the slow, necessary climb in personal popularity that would get her to victory come november. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> he could bankrupt america like he's bankrupted his companies. >> hillary clinton finds her line of attack. >> i mean, ask yourself. how can anybody lose money running a casino? really. >> the new front opened up against trump with james carville. plus michelle fields of "the huffington post" uncovering
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trump in a post-truth campaign. the art of the endorsement? >> he's a race baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot. >> is lindsey graham quietly supporting the man who gave out his cell phone number onstage? >> he gave me his number and i found the card. >> plus today's massive victory for bernie sanders with the dnc. and the ironic loophole in donald trump's denial, global warming. >> it's a hoax. it's a money-making industry. >> "all in" starts right now. >> we need some global warming, it's freezing. >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes for the very first time in this very long and unpredictable campaign, hillary clinton's making a sustained definitive argument against donald trump. painting him not as a standard republican, pushing agenda items like cutting the top's top bracket and shrinking the federal budget, but as a


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