tv Morning Joe MSNBC May 24, 2016 3:00am-6:01am PDT
but how do you feel about it? 46 to 44, if you do the math, that only adds to 90%. the final 10% kept whispering "kill me." >> good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is may 24th. mika has the morning off. willie, as you know, it's may and this time of the year she goes around the world and tries to help young rebels trying to train them >> i'm in an undisclosed location in a counter intelligence operation. willie, we will get through this, which may be one of the uglier days in recent american political history. i say that because of what happened yesterday. we knew that the bill clinton allegations were coming. we didn't think they would come this early or this hard, but the vince foster charges bringing
those up and casting a light on suspicious activities. that's about as low as it goes. and i was shocked that it's already happening in may. >> yeah, we're in 1993 conspiracy theory territory right now. we've got a great group around the table. i'll talk about more than that. former communications director nicole wallace, the managing editor of bloomberg politics co-hosts, with all due respect, 6:00 p.m. on msnbc mark halpe n halperin. >> this is the pregame show for that. >> and anchor of bbc news kaddy kay. donald trump took it to a new level. he discussed the 1993 suicide of clinton aid vince foster has been the subject of far fetched
and widely dismissed conspiracy theories. something president clinton alluded to at a campaign rally this past friday. >> i know the republicans have been mean to her and say terrible things. they're good at this. they delegitimize the people they don't like. you think the stuff they said about her is bad? they accused me of murder. my memories are short. it's what they do. >> yesterday the washington post published this when asked in an interview last week about the foster case, donald trump dealt with it as has about many edgy topics.
law enforcement officials and a subsequent federal investigation have ruled foster's death a suicide. trump continued to level of the allegation of rape against president clinton yesterday. his campaign posted a video to i instagram. we should note clinton was never charged and denied the allegations when they were first made in the 1990s.
trump tweeted the link with a comment, quote, is hillary really protecting women? >> no woman should be subjected to it. >> i tried to pull away from him. [ laughter ] >> trump spoke about the personal nature of his attacks in an interview last night with bill o'reilly. >> i'm not sure that this is a
good thing to do that. >> you're talking about what i'm doing? i'm only responding to what they do. they've been nasty. she's been very nasty. and i said i would like it to be on policy. >> do you know it makes the country look bad abroad and things like that. that worries me. i understand the clinton attack machine. i got it. i think it has to be dealt with somewhat. i think maybe -- >> i don't like doing that. i don't like doing that but i have no choice. when she hits me on things i have no choice. you have to do it. >> so, joe, let's talk about this as a campaign strategy for a presumptive nominee in a presidential election. in some dark corners of the internet, i think maybe the vince foster story has currency. when you're trying to win a general election, how does it help? >> well, i think it helps about as much as accusing your republican opponent's father of being friends with lee harvey oswald and somehow applying he
may have had something to do with the assassination of jfk. i wonder what nicole -- republicans who are bob corker yesterday one of them, what republicans who are now going and trying to treat donald trump with respect as their presumptive nominee, what are they thinking? what are you thinking? what are -- what are people like myself thinking? that donald trump is -- i'm sure he'll text me and tell me. that instead of building a coherent foreign policy, a consistent foreign policy where he doesn't change positions every year or two instead of building a coherent education policy, instead of building any coherent policy that he's going out and he's dredging up murder conspiracy from the 1990s that only kooks were trying to sell
25 years ago. and this is where he is. >> right. >> this is how he was going to grow. this is how he was going to evolve. twitter wars against cnn because of saturday afternoon segments and vince foster conspiracy theories? >> right. and, listen, i think it's good that we spend a beat talking about this not because the substance of these attacks are worthy of any air time, but because they speak directly to donald trump's state of mind. and i think the word inside the trump campaign is that the greatest concern is how you get him to want to learn about the intracys of foreign policy. how do you get him to read other than i had twitter feed. this is what the campaign is putting out there. this is on donald trump's mind. i think the polls last week showing him in striking distance of hillary clinton and even a couple of points ahead in the battle ground states showed republicans that he can win this
thing. he could be the next president of the united states. but to win over the swath of voters that you need to put you over the top, to narrow the gender gap among women, you don't do it by drudging up conspiracy theories. there's a consta donald trump's brief political life giving legs to the birther movement, to seeing barack obama's birth certificate, to dredging up the clinton infidelities, and now vince foster. if you are animated by those topics, you're already for trump. so to win over new voters, the kind of new voters you need to win during a general election, you have to move off this stuff. >> i've seen no pivot over the past week or two, mark halperin, i've seen a candidate that seems to be digging down even deeper into his bunker at a time he needs to move aggressively toward picking up female voters,
hispanics. we could go down the list. we talked about it on the show two weeks ago. the window is very short for donald trump to actually start moving in areas to clean up some of the messes that are there when you look at the polls. but no evidence that he's doing that. in fact, he's just pushing down on the accelerator. he's driving toward -- the entire party toward the side of a cliff. >> when he talks like that, it's the press's responsibility to move from being theater critics and marveling at his political skill to say the two sides are not fighting equally or the same degree of seriousness about the office for which they're running. >>well, john heelman, you look at donald trump's approval rating yesterday. 27%. >> yeah. >> you look at the fact that 58% of americans say he's not
qualified to be president of the united states. >> right. >> 60% of americans say they disapprove of donald trump. 76% of americans say they disapprove of the way that he treats other people, and it's hard to believe that any of those numbers are going to do anything but go in the opposite contradicti direction of where the republican party wants them to go. he may bring down hillary clinton or bill clinton's approval ratings but his come down, too. can anyone tell me the theory of inside his mind inside donald trump's headquarters for doing this? >> i can't. i think it's within donald trump's own mind. this is, as nicole said, a real reflection of some of how he thinks he's going to need to win. and, you know, i just -- i have to say, joe, i think it's not even a question, clearly this kind of attack is not going to
improve his dismal fave, unfave ratings especially with voters in this country. i don't think he's going drive hillary clinton's favorable numbers down very much. for anyone with whom these attacks resonates they already hate hillary clinton. they believe worst of the clintons. he's setting up by the clintons by going after them it puts them in the position where they can be the high road candidate. because -- he knocked them off their game when he first raised this last december. now they seem resolute on being able to argue we're not indulging in this. we're going to stay on the high road. we're not going to address it. there's not that much more to say. once you got to vince foster might have been murdered, where else do you go in the land of clinton conspiracy? this will be spent relatively soon and the clintons will emerge better off because the fact it looks desperate and it does not, i think, affect her
badly at all. >> wait, there's more. sean hannity has been viewed as favorable to donald trump's campaign. on his radio show hosted three women who accused bill clinton of sexual conduct. the women praised donald trump. broad rick recounted parts of their allegations which the clinton clintons denied. >> i usually say sexual assault. but rape is the perfect terminology for what happened. i made a huge mistake by not coming forward sooner. by denying it, i had denied it. >> yep. because you were afraid? >> oh, yes. yes i was afraid. >> tell everybody about the hillary encounter. >> she comes directly over to me and starts her little talk about how appreciative she was the very thing i was doing in bill's campaign, and i started to leave.
i didn't want to have anything to do with her. >> you felt she knew? >> she pulled me back in to her and said very low she said "do you understand everything you do"? and it frightened me. i'm so appreciative to donald trump for bringing it -- i couldn't. it's difficult for me to bring it forward. it's too painful. but i appreciate his efforts. >> if you're listening in the car that was juanita broderick talking to sean hannity. that was the theory of the case for donald trump. the indiscretions of bill clinton matter because hillary clinton, according to donald trump, enabled many of them. >> yeah. he's already made the case before that she's the enabler and chief of his pack of dillows and he'll bring out monica lewinsky and the way she talked about the other women. as with some of the things donald trump has done about people in the past and the way
he described them, there's a kernel of truth there that, you know, history books have been written, books have been written about the clintons in which hillary clinton did not always resolutely stand up for those women against her husband. and that's what he's trying to twist to say there are these incidents. there are these quotes about what hillary clinton said about some of these women. he's trying to say that shows she is not the defender of women that she's trying to portrait herself is. and the theory of the case for him is i'll go after it in order to boost my approval ratings with women and drag hers down. >> joe? >> yeah. yes, willie, and -- [ laughter ] >> depressing. >> i don't know. i don't know. i want to be careful how i say this. yes, there are still unresolved questions regarding all of the women who were interviewed on sean hannity last night.
christopher hitchens wrote an entire book about it. "no one left to lie to." not only what bill clinton did with these women and hillary clinton's role which doubt is highlighted in which it's not a pretty sight. but i can tell you, as somebody that was there on the ground floor back in the late 1990s, there's a reason why these issues were not pursued with more vigor. and the reason is politically after impeachment, the american people did not want to hear about bill clinton's sexual past. a a lot of these women unfairly were brushed aside. a lot of them were treated, you know, they had the clinton operation called it the shuts and nuts operation. they would say women came on to bill clinton inappropriately or
they were nuts. and, yes, it was a very ugly chapter of not only the clinton's marriage but also in american politics. but i get to my point, in 1999, we saw bill clinton's approval ratings go up to 60, 61, 62, 63%. americans didn't want to hear about this anymore. they had decided bill clinton did not treat women well and said, okay, next topic. and they wanted to move beyond it. and they have. i find it hard to believe that 17 years later, mark halperin, that this will have anymore resonance than it had in 1999 >>well, look, joe, trump has shown since this general election has got underway he can dominate the debate every day. and the clinton folks said in the prelude to this match up
that they knew they had to stop that from happening. so she's going to try to talk about housing and the economy and jobs. this show is not the only one drawn to talking about donald trump's tactics even to denouncing them. it's possible, again, i think it should be less about theater criticism and looking at what he's saying and if it's a serious argument for someone who wants to be president. it's possible he can dominate that the election comes down to which one are you more of sick of? which one represents more fundamental change which is what the voters want in many ways. this may be a way to run out the clock. >> again, it's may. as john said. it's may. he's started running out the clock awfully early. and, secondly, again, we've said repeatedly, the republican primaries, republican primaries,
republican primaries. i need somebody with five minutes that wants to win a primary. i can explain how you win a republican primary. a general election when you're running for president of the united states. far different. far more complex. and donald trump, i'm flabbergasted he thinks it's going to move him a step closer to the white house. >> exactly. because this is not what he needs to shore up. right. he has this base covered, if you will. people know he's going play dirty. i think republicans in losing the last two national presidential campaigns were looking for someone tough to go up against the clintons. he's proven that he is that guy. that's how he won the republican primary. but now the people that are left to be convinced to them he need to prove he can get his head around complicated questions of commander in chiefdom. he's not answering those questions with these attacks. he's not doing himself any
political good with the people that are still on the fence about him. and, frankly, what bob gates raised on this show, the questions about temperament. he makes those questions worse. he hurts his case about temperament. he hurts his case proving to the people who might be impressed and convinced that he's the change agent we might need in washington but they don't want to put him in charge of america's military arsenal. he is hurting his case with that swath of the jury that is really still undecided about both his qualifications and his temperament for the top job. >> john, i agree completely. he's already got the votes that he needs, the anti-clinton votes who believe in these sort of theory, and this isn't a wash. when you start talking about murder conspiracy theories from 1993, start accusing bill clinton of rape for things that happened in the '70s, the '90s,
and all you're doing is, yes, you're locking down your 27% that approve of you nationwide, but you're just pissing off the other 60% that disapprove of you and making more entrenched their opposition of you. >> think about the math we've seen and the polling everybody was talking about on television yesterday including us. you know, trump -- republicans have come home to donald trump. that's one thing we've seen. he's consolidated republican support. he has a big advantage at the moment with independent voters. what do independent voters care about with this care? why are they parked with donald trump. the swing. the people who decide this election. they're not people moved by arguments about vince foster or about augments or wjuanita.
i don't think those things will move independent voters. if we look at polling numbers there are a bunch of those people are concerned about the fact that donald trump hasn't released tax returns yet. the pollings show that. you had 60% of independents saying they want donald trump to release his taxes, to me is a character issue. that's what they're saying. we want to know more about you. we're with you now but we want to know more about you and who you are. what he's conveying to those voters is he's going to be fixated on these kinds of issues. i think that's not a winning strategy. it doesn't seem to be the way to win. he's bolstering the base. he's already got the base as nicole and everybody said. it seems to me this is not, again, a likely strategy to lock up an election where he is the underdog. no matter what else happens. he's the underdog in this election for reasons we understand about the electoral college and demographics. this is not helping, i don't think, the way i look at how
it's going to play out. >> if you look at the nbc poll in the last couple of days hillary clinton has leads among women. americans favor hillary clinton on women's issues in this poll 63 to 16. if you talk to some independent female voters, some people on the fence, they resent the idea that hillary clinton should be blamed for the infidelities and indiscretions of her husband. >> right. what happened to hillary clinton the end of the 1990s her own approval ratings went up. there was a certain amount of sympathy for her for the big drag through the press in the way she was. i think you'll see that playing into this as well. sympathy. why should she have to deal with bill clinton's affairs? the other number is look at the commander in chief number 33% donald trump 43% hillary clinton. i don't think that number is just about security. it's about character. and what donald trump is doing at the moment, the way he's dragging the whole political national political debate down into the sexual gutter of the sleaziest moments of the 1990s
doesn't improve his image as commander in chief of his country. it's a character issue. >> you're right. his poll numbers will go down. i'm not sure they're going to to after that. >> i don't think he'll fix them. i don't think they'll go down. i don't think he'll fix the political problems he has with the general electorate. i don't think they'll go up. >> do you think his numbers on women will change? >> i don't know. i don't know it's bad political strategy. i'm not denouncing it because i don't like it. i don't like it. i think it's reprehensible, but, you know, we've always here we separate out what we like and what we think is going to work. and from june forward mika and i have looked at things, you kn , know, -- i said his numbers were going to go up.
several other things he did was reprehensible. i said his numbers will go up. i think this vince foster nonsense is reprehensible. i don't think it makes his numbers go up. in fact, i think it may solidify an angry base but all it does is further frightens independents and other swing voters and the 60% of americans who disapprove of him now. that trying to figure out if they can trust him to be commander in chief. i don't need a fainting couch. i'm fine here. politics is hardball. i'm just saying politically this makes no sense for a man who desperately needs to pivot in many ways and show that he's a serious thinker on foreign policy, especially. spending the past week calling robert gates a dummy and then
bringing up vince foster murder conspiracy is no way to face the task that is in front of him. in is not about me liking it or not liking what he's doing. this is just bad politics. if, you know, if you have trump stock, you may want to sell it right now. because it's going to -- this is not good. >> we'll see how long he stays on. still ahead on "morning joe" there's still a democratic race to talk about. hillary clinton denies the change for bernie sanders to debate in california while he warns of a quote, messy convention. plus, what the governors are saying about 2016. we'll be joined by mississippi's former governor haley barber and john hickenlooper who supports hillary clinton even though his state went to bernie sanders by nearly 20 points. cancer... we don't want to think about it.
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a tw2006 audio book. >> ten years of savings gone. vanished. >> the biggest crash we've ever had in the united states. >> i sort of hope that happens because then people like me would go in and buy. if there's a bubble burst, as they call it, you know, you can make a lot of money. >> the video a preview of hillary clinton's campaign battle ground state media blitz with surrogates in ohio, pennsylvania, florida, and elsewhere. mark halperin, they're going stay on the issues and take the high road on the other stuff that trump is talking about. >> particularly trying to mine the area of trump's business dealings, attitude toward business we should argue hurt working class and middle class people. they're going to try to make business dealings make bay
capital look tame. i have no doubt they're sitting on opposition galore including people they say they were hurt by donald trump. >> does it breakthrough the noise, john? >> it depend on what they got. you've got -- look, the obama campaign did to mitt romney is not just attack bane. they built a constellation he's never been on your side. he's not in it for you. and for the voters of the nicole joe and others are talking about the swing in this election that a powerful argument. if you can make that case this person is famous but has no record in public service, has no history of having been on your side, that undercuts him even more deeply than it undercuts romney. trump is a populist figure. can they make the case? we'll see. >> they're going to make it
state by state while the national media is talking other stuff. they're going to talk to the battle ground states below the radar. >> this is the advantage hillary clinton has financially. she's going have a huge financial advantage and she's going to be out there in seven or eight states in 14 or 15 media markets the way obama did to romney pounding trump in the markets in columbus, ohio, and orlando, florida while trump is trying to figure out how to run a national campaign getting a lot of national media attention but not that same kind of focus local attention where it matters. >> that's the argument from the clinton campaign. donald trump is perpetuating himself as a fraud. he has a long history of not being a pop liulist. >> right. i agree with john and mark. i don't think this is going to have the impact that obama's attacks had on mitt romney. certainly not nationwide. but you look at what the obama campaign started doing with romney starting in may of 2012
going into ohio and just microtargeting and pounding the hell out of mitt romney. it really stuck. and if they do this, target the right people in ohio and do the sort of things that donald trump is not going to do because he said he doesn't believe in targeting. he's going to hold rallies. then i think it could have a big impact over the next six months. it could make it this sort of difference it made in ohio for barack obama. but make no mistake of it, donald trump is not going to be as easy a target as mitt romney was because there is something aspirational about donald trump. you talk to his supporters wherever you go there's something aspirational about him. and for whatever reason, his voters do believe donald trump is the one guy that is on their side. >> joe, i would add to that. i think that attacking his business practices when he has stood in front of the cameras
and said, yeah, i took every advantage of a rigged economy. i took every advantage as a player in a rigged political system. and that's why i'm the one that can go fix it. i don't think it detracts from his brand at all. it might reinforce what he's running on. >> you can make the case if you go in and target carefully and go into neighborhoods in virginia or ohio where there have been high foreclosure rates, for example, and you show ads like that one, can you chip away at the idea that donald trump is on my side? if you can take a working class communities that have actually suffered from the housing crisis, who have actually lost their homes or whose homes are still underwater. i think that's a fairly effective message. if they can keep hammering away at it. you can see support, i think, for trump eroding on that idea he's on my side and he's my champion. >> but, you know, willie, the whole idea that trump is a shrewd businessman, he's going to do everything he can to get
ahead. he's going take every angle, every advantage that is given to him. that seemed to help him. i think the most remarkable example of this even the republican primary when people say you gave money to hillary clinton. that would normally be kryptonite in any republican primary. donald trump goes sure i did! i'm a businessman. go to the make money. you know, it was kind of like rodney dangerfield in what was that movie where he went back to college -- >> "back to school." >> "back to school." like the rodney dangerfield scene explaining to the professor how economics work. that's hike donald trump. sure, you know, you have to greece your palm -- grease yous with some cash. and people are like he's a businessman. get off his back. i don't think what hurts mitt romney and hurts mortals running
for president of the united states hurts donald trump. the other stuff? i don't know if it does. >> it's totally different than four years ago when a car elevator ruined mitt romney and donald trump has his own giant plane. >> right. >> two big primaries going on now between them. cares about people like you and strength. and donald trump cares about people like you numbers in the latest poll was not as strong as you might have thought. as we talk about people like him and gets them. but i think clinton understands there's two fights. cares about people like you and strength. this is an attempt to undermine you on cares on people like you. >> remember early when we went and did trump focus groups and heard people say the words he's one of us. those were republican primary voters. they're different from the voters who are the undecided voters now. it's a different set of people.
he may be able to make that same claim and argument and resonate with those people with the new set of people. it's a different set of people that would naturally vote in a republican primary. the people sitting in a working class community in virginia or florida or ohio or wisconsin or michigan. the different category of person who is deciding between donald trump and hillary clinton. >> even the focus on donald trump hillary clinton fighting on bernie sanders. she's opted out of a debate in california. bernie sanders is hitting her hard for doing that. we'll talk about in a few minutes. the secretary of veterans affairs is under fire after down playing veteran wait times comparing it to waiting in line at a disney theme park. that story and more ahead on "morning joe." soon.
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...of fixodent plus adhesives. they help your denture hold strong more like natural teeth. and you can eat even tough food. fixodent. strong more like natural teeth. fixodent and forget it. this is claire in phoenix. yes!i help you? great. correct! ma'am. this isn't an automated computer... operator! ma'am. i'm here. i'm live. wait. you're real? yeah. with discover card, you can talk to a real person in the u.s. day or night. plus, we're not going to waste your time trying to sell you a bunch of other products you don't really need. that is really nice of you. i feel really bad about shouting at you. oh, you weren't shouting. you were just speaking in all caps. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. 100% u.s.-based customer service. here to help, not to sell. our buddy thomas roberts joins the table. >> nice to see you. >> you've been all over the place covering the campaign. every time i look up you're in a
different bar on tv just hanging out on the bar. >> delta sky miles, my friend. >> can i give you a shout out. you rolled in old school this morning like willie geist for "way too early." he knew how to do it in a timely fashion. i strive to do it. >> yeah. keeping it moving. >> a slow row. slow it 5 miles per hour. >> it's better to come in hot. just come in hot. >> don't let the energy drop. >> we miss you. >> thank you. >> yes. the 3:00 a.m. wake up call is hard. >> it's not pretty. hillary clinton turned down an invitation to debate bernie sanders. in a statement her people said in part -- no time for debates. she didn't say that.
i did. a santa monica rally senator sanders was quick. >> i was disturb but not surprised to hear that secretary clinton backed out of the debate. i think it's a little bit insulting to the people of california, our largest state, that she is not prepared to have a discussion with me about how she will help the californians address the major crises that we face. >> in february, both candidates had agreed to add four more debates to the calendar, including a debate in may before the california primary. so far they have had three of those four debates. meanwhile, in a move that may help ease tension between bernie sanders and the democratic establishment, the party has given sanders a prominent say in writing the platform this year. senator sanders will be allowed
to name five members to the 15-member committee that will write the platform at the democratic national convention. clinton will name six. >> i believe that if we win here in california, and if we win the other five states that are up on june 7th, we're going to go marching to the democratic convention with a hall of a lot of momentum. i believe that if we do well here in california, we'll march in with momentum and we'll march out with the democratic nomination! >> at the same time, sanders says this summer's convention could be, quote, messy. he told the associated press yesterday -- democracy is not always nice, quite, and gentle. sanders' campaign manager said the party should ultimately end up unified.
>> he certainly said post convention the party should be unified. he said he'll campaign day and night 24/7 to keep donald trump from becoming.of the united states. i think you'll see bernie sanders on the campaign trail during the general election. >> one other piece of data in here. abc southern california news poll shows hillary clinton ahead of bernie sanders 57 to 39 in that california primary, which is june 7th. if she wins that clenching the nomination, mathematically, once and for all, what does bernie sanders do? >> they're saying or weaver saying they'll spend from the middle of june to the convention still fighting and fighting in philadelphia. >> fighting for what? >> change the platform. change the way the democratic party -- >> so he won't get behind her? >> not until after the convention. i think some democrats hope that changes. like with hillary clinton eight years ago he decides, you know, fighting is not a good idea. the app interview suggests he
will fight. and, you know, that's a month plus they would rather be unified and not still fighting. they would like to make the convention about unity and not fighting. i think that's the biggest question between them. what happens from california, new jersey through the convention. is it moving toward unity or a big fight in philadelphia and then unity? >> what arguments is bernie sanders listening to that would persuade him it's worth dropping out? are there things that some people are saying that democrats are saying that have more resonance than others? the race is now closed and we can't afford to waste five weeks. i don't get the sense from talking to them or the things they're saying publicly that's where his head is at. he wants to use the convention as a platform to continue to highlight the issues that are important to him. >> is he dmom straiting the farther -- demonstrating the fact he can be a north star rather than a shootishoot ing star. he wants to be effective in the
party platform but know he has to unify if he wants to make it to the white house. >> to me the symbolism is what happens at the conventions. fat cat lobbyists have access to politic contributions. that is the way the convention will be. i think he wants to go to philadelphia and highlight that relationship and all the other things he's been highlighting in a way that he can't do if he gives up in june. >> so, nicole, do you think he can have that time in between what happens on the 7th, california and new jersey to later in the month? to make that community happen? >> i think if he takes the time you're talking about, i think she'll be behind by her convention. by taking being called corrupt and corruptible and being called unqualified by someone on the favre right of the ideological spectrum. donald trump, we've been talking about all morning, you know, launching the same attacks as bernie sanders. the democrat's own socialist. thing is a very damaging period
for her. and i think that if this happens, i think she'll start her convention behind donald trump. >> and look at breernie sander' approval ratings. he scores high. the attacks coming from him resonate with democrats. >> and voters. >> as you know about vp vetting make bernie the vice president? >> i don't think it will happen. i think more likely to pick her husband than bernie sanders. >> but the thing -- >> donald trump. >> the thing about sanders voters they are committed to the cause. they're not going to fall in line with hillary clinton. >> right. they believe she's so different from him and -- >> they believe him that she's corrupt. they believe she's part of the rigged system he's been running against. it's going to take more than a platform committee to smooth it over. i think it's a fairy tale they can come together after the convention and work for her. i think the best she can hope for is they don't work against her. >> joe, two more months until the democratic convention in
cleveland. if he continues to hammer her the way he's been doing that with trump from the other side. there's got to be damage there. >> yeah. and he looks like he's going to keep going after her because he's 74 years old. there is no next campaign for bernie sanders. he's not going to play in safe and pull back at the last instance and say, agree, you know, when i'm 78 i'm going to be able to hit my mid season stride. this is it for bernie sanders. his crowds are getting bigger. the money continues to pour in. and right now he doesn't see any incentive for backing down. that's what makes this so fascinating democratic leaders, party operatives are horrified because they can't control this man. more horrified by the fact they can't control the thousands of people that come out to his rallies and keep contributing to his cause. what does it mean for a fractured democratic party? the same thing donald trump means to a fractured republican
party. one of the most remarkable general elections we've seen in our lifetime. >> sanders supporters are veemtly for bernie and against hillary clinton. >> they've yell at me at the dog park when i say he can't win. it's math. >> that's huge. thomas roberts, good to see you. >> nice to see you, too. >> i'm sure you'll be doing your show from a beach bar in santa monica. >> we'll see you on "way too early" this week. coming up donald trump said bernie sanders should become a third party candidate. mike is here with a new column on "morning joe." hmmmmmm.....
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coming up donald trump digs deeper in the mud with his attacks on bill clinton even dredging up an old 1990s murder conspiracy. we'll have the latest. plus, our nbc correspondent team staking out another big day in presidential politics. we'll be right back on "morning joe." i have a blog called "daddy doing work", it's funny that i've been in the news for being a dad. windows 10 is great because i need to keep organized. school, grocery shopping. my face can unlock this computer. that's crazy.
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meanwhile hillary clinton went on "meet the press "yesterday and asked what slogan defines her campaign. she said stronger together. as opposed to the other slogan that defines her campaign "you've got mail!" delete that slogan. on friday trump gave a big speech in kentucky. i'm starting to wonder if he understands how legislation works. >> we'll unsign lots of things including those terrible executive orders. believe me, they're going to be unsigned so fast. they'll be unsigned the first hour i'm in officer. the first hour i'm in officer. >> i'm going to unsign every christmas card i ever sent to the clintons. unsign them.
i'm going unsign them! welcome back to "morning joe." it is may 24th. willie, quite a morning. a lot of news we've been discussing. you know, i was reading david brooks' column "why is clinton unliked?" . david brings up some good points. hillary clinton has a high disapproval rating. it wasn't so long ago that she had a 66% approval rating as secretary of state. now she's not seen as honest and trust worthy. she fails in so many other categories. i wonder if donald trump isn't shooting in the wrong direction when he's going after her husband politically or talking about vince foster when it actually was questions of character and questions whether
it was, you know, the clinton money and the clinton foundation or the handling of classified information, the e-mails, that brought her approval rating from 66 to the low 30s and not all this other stuff that trump is talking about yesterday >>well, he hit her on the stuff. it feels like it's been months. he's gone after the e-mails. he's not as strong on the clinton foundation. i think you're right. the stuff we've seen over the last couple of days takes the campaign into a bizarre direction. as we've been saying in the last hour, we're not sure it's a productive. we have nicole wallace with us. mark halperin and john heilman, katty kay, and chris cillizza.
>> good morning. donald trump took his aim at clintons yesterday including the suicide of vince foster. it's something president clinton alluded to and previewed as a campaign rally this past friday. >> i know the republicans have been mean to her and say terrible things. they're good at this. they delegitimize the people they like. you think the stuff about her is bad? they accused me of murder! it's what they do. >> so then yesterday the washington post published this --
both law enforcement officials and a subsequent federal investigation ruled foster's death a suicide. donald trump continued to level the allegation of rape against bill clinton. >> let's stop there. notice donald trump uses in the same sentence "absolutely a murder. but i'm not going to go there." he's trying to have it both ways. he gets it out there and says there are a lot of people who think at this is it's absolutely a murder but i'm not going there. just like the lee harvey policy
wa -- oswald game he played. >> a lot of people are saying i'm not going to say it -- >> i'm not one of the people saying this but a lot of people are. the difference between the vince foster attack and going after bill clinton's previous infidelities. there's a string he's trying to draw about hillary clinton's participation. even in his throwing out what people say that he's not saying. i don't know what the point is about hillary clinton. i think he's trying to cast this cloud of corruption and sketchiness. but if you're donald trump supporter you already think they're sketchy. i'm with joe. >> if you have the clintons all of the is revisited. do you want to go back to the 1990s this is how long they've been around and there are so many shadows over them and raising the light you tarnish hillary and bill. >> you want to re-litigate this
in the time capsule he was a democrat advocating for gun rights. >> nicole, the thing is no traditional political attack worked against him. i agree with you. think about the thought process that says i'm going to go after bill clinton's infidelity if you're donald trump. i mean, obviously you have some issues on that front yourself, but he's unbothered by it. because i think he thinks it doesn't affect him. i think he believes everything about him. i don't know if it's true, but everything about him is known that it's baked into the cake. that people sort of know who he is fundamentally, and that they like that in some way, shape, or form. or they find who he is appealing whether they like it or not. and, therefore, there's not as much danger in going into places where you would think there's an obvious push back here against donald trump, as you point out. i wonder if that's sort of how he thinks.
there's been no evidence that he attacked plenty of people in the republican primary for things that were easily he was open to attack himself. yet it didn't work. >> heart attack, help us out. most of us on the set, certainly nicole and i, the two self-identified republicans think it's not a smart move for donald trump moving toward the general election. what is the theory of the case for the donald trump campaign? they would say we're doing this because -- fill in the blank. >> to jam the system. you incited a couple of times the ted cruz accusations he made about ted cruz's father. ted cruz got after the race after. that i'm not saying it's cause and effect. i think donald trump is trying to jam the gears. the clintons is a giant battle ship and trump is low throwing the circuit breaker and it's coming to a halt. i'm not endorsing what he's saying. i'm not saying it's will work. i'm not sure it won't work. donald trump, if he can freeze
this race and make the clintons have to fight on his terrain i think he has a better chance to win if he lets the clintons and the clinton campaign control the agenda. >> that's so maddening about these attacks, john. donald trump gets a series of polls that come out over the weekend that actually show him ahead, and some of these national polls for the first time in weeks. this is how he responds. lee harvey oswald, that bizarre theory, national enquire theory came out right before it was clear that ted cruz was going to have to get out of the race. he went ahead and did it anyway. it's like spiking the ball when you're ahead 73-0. i still am befuddled by the fact he feigned ignorance on who david duke was. the day before super tuesday and all those southern states, we all knew he was going to win in
a walk. yet he still pretended he didn't know who david duke was despite the fact in 2000 he said he would not run as reformed party candidate because racist david duke was a part of the reformed party. so all of this seems to unnecessary. i don't -- again, i'll befuddled by it. he seems to do these usually from a position of strength when it's absolutely unnecessary and he just drives away potential converts. >> right. i mean, look, the vince foster thing, in particular, is from the fever swamp of conspiracy theory and, you know, nut cakism from the 1990s. right. so, you know, are there people on the right who believe bill clinton was a murder, maybe a drug dealer, all kinds of things in the 1990s? yes. there are people like that. those people are republicans that will vote for donald trump under any circumstances. the game must be to try to
eradicate some of his unfavorables to do better with certain groups of people. to persuade persuadable voters. this argument doesn't do any of those things. more specifically, what are we seeing in the polls that donald trump -- is driving donald trump forward. that he's a change agent, right. he could shake things up in washington. it plays to the fundamentals about presidential politics. the person who makes it about the future and not about the past. here is donald trump not only arguing for things that won't persuade any persuadable voters and talking about the 1990s and persuadable voters want to talk about how to change washington, how to look at america going forward not back ward. on multiple levels it doesn't seem to be a sensible strategy for someone with donald trump strengths and weaknesses both of which he has to exploit and deal with in the next six months. >> well, the relitigation --
>> yeah. i was going to say, willie, after that was litigated the first time, i was there, it was litigated every day. you name the theory, you name the attack, it was brought up. bill clinton left the 1990s with a 64% approval rating. >> that was only the first part of vince foster of trump's 1990 relitigation yesterday. he continued the level of allegation of rape against president clinton. his campaign posted a video to instagram that spliced a photo of clinton smoking a cigar and accusati accusati accusations. donald trump tweeted the instagram link with a comment, quote, is
hillary really protecting women? >> i was very nervous. no woman should be subjected to it. >> it starts to -- and try to
pull away from him. [ cackling ] >> so chris is a liz is, is
the don't want to dgo back to the 1990s. do you want to put your toe in the water and be submersed by all that comes with the clintons? yes. he's doing it in a way that no politician, certainly no politician with a profile he has who is going to be the republican nominee has done before. we've seen an occasional house member mention these sort of things. you've seen state legislators mention these things. you've never seen the presidential nominee put out something like that where the insinuations -- you don't need to insinuate much. you know, i think he's trying to make it saying these people are not people you want in power. these are people who have been there and done that and there were things about that time that were unappealing to a broad
swath of the american public. now doing it the way he does it, right, which is there's not a lot of subtlety. it's like watching -- that's being nice. it's the night manager where you're like, wait, i don't know. i don't know who is that? versus a watching a show where it's like now i'm going to do this. it's all explained. there's no room for "i wonder what he's trying to go for here." i don't know if that works. if you think a lot is baked in the cake on donald trump, my gosh, the clintons, as joe and willie have pointed out, these are not new allegations. these are things that have been litigated many times over. i don't know if that makes it fur tile ground for him. >> why donald trump may be going there. a deeper look at the wall street journal nbc news poll showing a dead heat between hillary
clinton and donald trump in a general election match up. telling us what issues voters are making decisions on. americans favorite hillary clinton on women's issues. more than half saying she's better on foreign policy. 56 to 29%. when asked who would make a better commander in chief 43% say hillary clinton, 33% say donald trump. clinton has a 13-point lead on looking out for the middle class. 43 to 30 there. and 46% say she has the ability to unite the country. 26% chose donald trump. trump has the edge on questions of reforming powerful institutions 55% say he's preferable to clinton on bringing change to washington. trump is 10 points ahead on protecting u.s. trade interests. 48 to 38. and a ci21-point lead on who is best of dealing with wall street. on dealing with commit, donald trump is 11 points in front of clinton 47 to 36.
and 46% believe trump is better in standing up for america. 32% for clinton. a lot of numbers there, joe, what jumps out at you? >> well, yeah, obviously two issues. one was the first number you read. hillary clinton's strength, which was dealing with women's issues. trump, nicole, you have said time and time again, is going to have to figure out a way to get more women on his side if he wants to win the election. it was the last number that you brought up on donald trump side. and trump strength talking about what was the exact language, standing up for america. that's, i mean, if i had to pick one area that people thought in 2016, you know, had the best numbers it would be standing up for america. he's well ahead of hillary clinton on that. so sort of a split decision there, nicole. >> yeah. ahead of her on trade.
i think if you look -- i think one of the things he's trying to do, frankly, all these sort of gross under belly attacks is perhaps disqualify her with the sanders supporters. the sanders supporters dislike hillary clinton at this moment, at this hour. historically they've come around for a general. right now they hate her almost as much as the trump supporters. maybe part of what he's trying to do is permanently disqualify her as corrupt and part of this dirty underbelly of american politics with that swath of the electorate. he has a strategy, as mark says, not only does it hurt him in the polls but sometimes helps him. you look where his advantages are. women certainly aren't immune to the idea of trade harming their house hold economy. s. women aren't immune to his strength. he needs to make sure they don't slam the door in his face because they're so turned off by his tactics. >> right. and, you know, you look at the other attacks against bill
clinton and trump's suggestion which has been marring doubts of suggestion and other suggestions that hillary clinton was an enabler of the bad behavior of bill clinton. there are a lot of younger millennial bernie sanders supporters that the trump team wants to hear this message for the first time in their adult life. >> right. this is where hillary clinton is most vulnerable in this. she didn't stand up for the women that bill clinton was accused of having affairs with or accused by them of assaulting. and i can see that resonating with some of these younger women. did t can be potentially an effective way to get the bernie sanders young women supporters to take a look at hillary clinton in this day and age. remember, we're in 2016 and not in the 1990s. what might have seemed acceptable in the 1990s to younger women is not acceptable anymore fop have an older woman
not champion younger women who are making accusations of abuse just doesn't fly. especially when hillary clinton herself has spoken out against abuse -- sexual abuse in college campuses and sexual abuse of young women and the need to protect the young women. i can see a lot of younger bernie sanders supporters looking at this story as they start learning about it possibly for the first time and thinking she doesn't come out of this very well. >> chris, you can recycle some of that writing from the 1990s. just post it today on "the fix." >> i do some of that. i don't like when you army secrets publicly. chris, good to see you. still ahead on "morning joe" kristen welker joins us with her one-on-one interview with bernie sanders. what did he say when democratic national convention could be, quote, messy. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. if you're going to make a statement...
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his supporters for challenging us. we're going to get unaccountable money out of politics. we'll take on the crisis of income inequality. >> that was hillary clinton in detroit yesterday. joining us now from los angeles nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker. you had a one-on-one chat with bernie sanders yesterday. what did he tell you? >> good morning. bernie sanders is not backing down. he feels confident about his chances here in must-win california. he insisted this prolonged democratic race is good for democracy and resisted any suggestion that he could be wounding hillary clinton in a general election. bernie sanders rallying a crowd of more than 6700 people in santa monica monday night. >> show the world you're ready for a political revolution! >> reporter: after our fiery one-on-one interview. >> we don't live in an awe turn country. >> reporter: sanders just struck
a deal with the dnc to play a major role in shaping the party's platform weighed in on a report that he's predicting the convention could be messy. >> the media often takes words out of context. the context of that was the democracy is messy. people will have vigorous debate on the issues. >> reporter: will the convention be messy? >> of course it will be. that's what democracy is about. >> reporter: and sanders loathed any suggestion he might be hurting hillary clinton's chances against donald trump. >> reporter: when you look at those numbers, how can you argue that had this primary battle is not in some ways hurting her in a general election and hurting her numbers? first of all, i guess if we take your assumption of a logical conclusion we should go back to a monarchy and not have any elections at all. >> reporter: what if sanders doesn't win? would you pledge to democrats you're going to campaign for
secretary clinton? >> my focus right now is to win the democratic nomination. >> reporter: will you campaign -- >> excuse me. at the end of the day, we hope to win a majority of the pledged delegates. >> reporter: insisting he has a path to victory. sanders took a swipe at clinton for refusing to debate him in california. >> it's insulting the people of the largest state in our country. who have a right to hear a vigorous debate on her views. i'm disappointed all though not surprised. >> reporter: and sanders sidestepped a question about party loyalty. >> do you feel a sense of loyalty to democrats? >> i have a strong sense that donald trump would be a disaster if he were elected president of the united states. >> reporter: as for that debate, the clinton campaign said they declined the offer because they wanted to focus on campaigning here in california and wanted to focus on the general election. willie, in the coming days you can expect both the candidates
will be barn storming here in california. sanders telling me he expects to rally as many as 200,000 people for the june 7th primary. >> wow. and the sanders campaign would argue part of the getting the word out is a campaign in california. joining us now msnbc contributor mr. mike and attorney ben ginsburg. this is where i read a part of your column and you talk about it. >> at your own risk. >> bernie sanders acts -- sanders stays in the race
because his own rhetoric has become a narcotic for him. you're suggesting it's one big e ego trip. >> nobody without ego gets in to this game. he, more than anybody, sometimes i feel i'm not virtuous enough to talk about bernie sanders. no i -- you said the same thing. don't you get the idea he is so far above this and this has been a political season where you know the old line you don't want to see how the sausage is made. every day of this campaign, we have seen that. and the idea he's not -- i know hi hillary clinton can be her own worst enemy. but every day he stays in this, the idea he's not hurting her is
ridiculous. >> i agree with you. i want to know why he keeps telegraphing this message to his voters. why he's part of the delusion. i mean, he's losing. he's lost. he's been mathematically eliminated since mid march. he wants to defy math? what is sort of the string that ties reality to what he's saying? is he lying to supporters? >> i don't know if he's lying. but another wonderful line he acts like the score board doesn't matter. when you're coaching your kids and the other team is trash talking them, you finally have to say score board and he acts like the score board doesn't matter. the other thing he acts like, to me, only his demographics are the ones that matter. only his supporters are ones who count in the election. and it's a preposterous notion. >> i remember howard dean saying bernie sanders -- who knows him from vermont bernie sanders is good at playing the victim.
he's done it throughout his political career. at the moment he and his supporters feel he's the victim. >> guys, hillary clinton in 2008 campaigned until the last primary day. she stood in new york city. half her campaign was telling her she should go to denver and fight at a contested convention in denver. then she thought about it and the next day she went to her campaign headquarters and dropped out. then a few days later endorsed barack obama and went to the convention. the only question is why not bernie sanders not fighting to the end? she criticized obama to the end. the question is what happens on june 8th. i don't care what jeff weaver says. on the day after the last contest let's check in with bernie sanders and see how he
obeys. he's within his rights to campaign, campaign hard, go to california, to fight to the end. then let's see what happens. does he unify the party or not? people are worried about democratic community only need to look back to 2008, you remember well, nicole, because of the fight going on barack obama came out of nominating season six points behind john mccain and hillary clinton blessed him and the democratic party came together. >> yeah. ben, obviously -- you just did. >> nobody said he doesn't have a right. i didn't say he -- >> there are consequences. i'm with you. he has a right but the notion he's not doing her harm. >> he must get out. what he's doing is bad. i'm not saying he doesn't have a right. you're not saying that. but i'm trying to say there's a little bit of, like, there's a little bit of overdrawn melodramatic panic about how permanent the damage is and how much he's killing her and costing her the election. it's like, guys, we've been
through it before. it happened eight years ago. >> the thing we went through before all of those hillary clinton supporters who are said they would never vote for bernie sanders campaign -- they sure did. >> you know in a little note of development yesterday the dnc helped bernie sanders unleash the furies. the five people he got to appoint to the dnc's platform committee are not people who are known for comprising their views. and so in trying to bring bernie sanders into the fold, they have now unleashed some people who may not play along with that nice game of bringing the party together. >> for people watching at home what is the impact, what is the significance of getting five people of bernie sanders' choosing? >> it was part of the comprise to try to bring them in. what it means is on the platform
committee bernie sanders has been driving hillary clinton to the left the whole campaign, he has some very articulate, very knowledgeable supporters of his who are going to drive those policies that will make it harder for her to get back to the center in what is going to end up being a platform debate that could, like it did four years ago, in charlotte, get spilled over on to the floor. >> mike, isn't everybody going to come together at the convention? isn't it going to be fine and they're going it get behind hillary clinton if she's the nominee? bernie sanders will push his voters in her direction. how does it end for the democratic party? >> what has been a post factual campaign. where facts have taken a bigger beating than any candidate. it's how do you want to ring all these bells? i know it happened before and it will happen again in politics. how do unsay the things that have been said in this campaign? >> well, it happened on the republican side. a lot of people who said horrific things about donald trump are supporting him,
endorsing him. >> some of them. >> a lot of them are. >> the democrats will try and unring the bell by the choice of the vice presidential candidate. which puts a lot of pressure on hillary clinton to choose someone who calms the bernie sanders people. she fails to do that, then you get into all sorts of situations on the floor. >> but it helps hillary clinton has she shifted too far to the left. it helps she's running against somebody who on a slew of economic policies is probably on the same page if not slightly to her left when it comes to issues like trade, taxes on the wealthy, protecting social security and medicare. donald trump is not a traditional conservative. she's got much more wiggle room. >> i think the difference between 2008 and hillary colensing around obama is hillary sporters and obama supporters believe the same thing. bernie sanders supporters are
more animated by the things that animate the trump supporters. railing against a rigged economy, railing against the political establishment. i think the damage he's doing to her is the voters may never come back for establishment politicians. >> so much matters about what happens between june 8th and the end of july. rights. they're going to have responsibilities to each other. clinton, you know, obama and clinton elected themselves in a remarbly subtle and calculating way. they played their part in that. >> are if the same policies. >> the question becomes how does sanders treat those -- i agree with you about this one element, which is there was never a critique that obama and clinton offered of each other. they were fundamentally corrupt. >> right. sanders suggested that about clinton. he hand said it. it will be a harder thing in this case but not undoable to point to willie things. a lot of bells can't be unrung. >> see what you started here,
i spent 20 years active duty they still refer to me as "gunnery sergeant" when i call being a usaa member because of my service in the military to pass that on to mkids something that makes me happy my name is rogerapata and i'm a usaa member for life. usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. hey kevin. hey, fancy seeing you here. uh, i live right over there actually. you've been to my place. no, i wasn't...oh look, you dropped something. it's your resume with a 20 dollar bill taped to it. that's weird. you want to work for ge too. hahaha, what? well we're always looking for developers who are up for big world changi challenges and hospitals run better. why don't you check your new watch and tell me what time i should be there. oh, i don't hire people. i'm a developer. i'm gonna need monday off. again, not my call.
this morning the fbi is investigating whether or not virginia governor terri mccollum's 2013 campaign accepted illegal contributions. federal officials say investigators have been looking into the matter for the past several months. he's a clinton confident and one-time board member of the foundation set up by former president bill clinton. records show more than 100 donors contributed to the foundation and mccollum's campaign. investigators are look agent the overlaps and are interested from contributions by foreign nationals are barred but the spokesperson said he has permanent status. mcall life have been contacted by the fbi but pledges to fully investigate if asked. what is the impact? >> a couple of things. any conservative who thinks that the obama justice didn't is not willing to investigate democrats fairly can look at this and say
you have to give him some credit that terri being targeted now is having bad for the democrats. very bad for the clintons because he's close to them. based on what has been reported so far, this play be another case where prosecutors are looking into for what most politics is business as usual. commingling it's a kind of thing that has been going on forever. you see it here in new york with bill de blasio, you see it in some of the investigations of the conservative journalists. this is the way -- >> yeah. it's the way business operated. it's what bernie sanders railed against. it's what trump practiced and now rails against. >> this would be a big story on its own. given its connection to the clintons, given we're in the middle of a heated election campaign right now. there's a lot of smoke around it. what fire do you think they're looking for? >> based on -- i don't have any -- based on what has been reported the kind of
relationships that bob mcdonald got convicted for but now the supreme court is looking at. it's strange it's been going on for months and the governor's office claims they don't know anything about it and why it's breaking now is unclear. it's a democratic fbi and justice department. it's a democratic administration. and the fact they're looking at something suggests a potential problem. they say the foundation is not being targeted it. it involves the clinton foundation. it's not great news for the clinton. brian fallon wouldn't comment on it. he wouldn't defend terry mcauliffe's ethics. >> remember the interesting thing about this -- another interesting element is recently terry announced he was going to executive order allow felons to start voting, which was seen through the prism of the politics of 16. that's being challenged. it's going to be challenged in
court. not that the two things are directly related. it creates this kind of -- the fact that mcauliffe could be under investigation creates a context in which the could have political consequences how 2006 plays out. veterans affair secretary robert mcdonald under fire after comments he made about wait times for veterans at the virginia. -- va. house speaker paul ryan was one of many quickly reacting to the disney comparison tweeting "this is not make believe, mr.
secretary. veterans have died waiting in those lines." trump weigh eed in. hillary said va problems are wide spread. i'll take care of our vets. a spokesperson for disney spoke up. not sure it's the most important part of the story. but rob mcdonald is a good servant. he's doing his best at the va. i'm shocked he said that. >> every now and again politicians so something so stupid it reminds you that they're human. i think we had a case of that. this is the kind of thing he should have never have said. whoever looked at his briefings papers beforehand should have weeded it out instantly. it's idiotic. >> in defense of staffers i
don't think anybody scripted this line. this campaign. this is a huge campaign issue. one of donald trump's earliest issues was talking about making the experience of dealing with the va better for veterans. and if you, you know, on the show we've spent years talking about how difficult it is to access mental health services. this is a huge issue. it is an under reported issue. veterans have a very difficult time in their encounters and the substance of what he's saying they should evaluate their experience is fine. but suggesting that wait times should be cleaned up. that's the central frustration for most veterans dealing with the va. >> as speaker ryan pointed out people are dying. >> literally. >> it's a national embarrassment. actually. one of the guys who has done a great job of taking care of vets is sebastian younger. you would think that coming home would be a good thing for a soldier. sebastian explains why some soldiers who have left the front
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there's only one invokana®. ask your doctor about it by name. maybe what determines the rate of long-term ptsd isn't what happened out there but the kind of society you come back to. and maybe if you come back to a close, cohesive, tribal society, you can get over trauma pretty quickly. if you come back to an alienating modern society, you might remain traumatized your entire life. in other words, maybe the problem isn't them the vets, maybe the problem is us. >> that's a talk from sebastian junger with a new perspective on military ptsd and why it's difficult for u.s.
service-members to join civilian life. he joins us now. good to see you, sir. >> thank you. >> let's expand upon what you said in your talk there. it turns on the head the idea that some people have that veterans come back damaged and that's the reason they can't assimilate back into society and we see suicide and the other problems we see. you're putting it another way. you're saying they're coming from a place cohesive. they have to look out for the guy next to them and they don't see that when they get back to this society. >> yeah, the israeli military has a ptsd rate of 1%. because israelty soldiers are returning to a society that is familiar with the military. everyone serves. the battle front is on their doorstep. it's tribal in that sense. i studied anthropologiy in college. i confirmed that suicide, depression and the mental health
issues were low rates in the native societies in america. i had the idea that maybe the problem -- we all deal with trauma. our species has survived for 2 million years. obviously we can adapt to trauma. maybe the problem isn't the trauma, it's coming back to a cohesive society, as i said. and if you look at modern society, and some of the highest rates of depression, as wealth goes up depression goes up, suicide goes up. they should be going in the opposite direction. they don't. that's because we lost cohesion. >> is there an war in american history where the cohesive society did twist and rates for returning soldiers was lower? >> you look at the blitz in london. authorities were prepared for psychiatric casualties. people freaking out. admissions s ts to psychiatric went down during the bombing and back up when the bombing
stopped. during crisis people together. >> have a purpose. >> yeah and a wealthy modern society is a great blessing in so many ways. the one downside is that it a l and that's when you see a rise in mental health issues. after 9/11 in new york city, the suicide rate went down. the murder rate went down. even ptsd symptoms went down after 9/11. it's the cohesive effect of a catastrophe and it doesn't fall apart into riots and mayhem. people come together, and they want that. >> why can't we sustain a national conversation in this country about what to do and how to solve these problems. why can't we sustain a national conversation about our returning heroes and soldiers who come back and we haven't done any of the right things. >> to sustain a national conversation we have to see ourselves as a unity. we don't. the political parties are at each other's throats.
we live in racially segregated communities, economically segregated communities. there are politicians and leaders in media who literally talk about some fellow citizens as if they're traitors. they talk with -- >> literally? >> literally as if they are rivals actively want to hurt the country they talk about the president that way, they talk about congress. elements of the population as if they are actually trying to harm their own country. when you talk nontribally. you talk about people inside your own camp, you are dividing a society. and interestingly, it's a very deeply unpatriotic thing to do. so if that's the norm, if that's acceptable to voters to have people talk like that, you'll never have a national conversation about anything. >> sebastian, you've been such a great advocate for vets and have the respect of so many vets because you were over there with them for so long. we just played that story from bob mcdonald at the v.a. where
he compared the wait lines at the v.a. to disneyland. putting that comment aside, where are we so bad at taking care of these guys. why isn't that more of a national priority? >> bureaucracies are inherrantly cumbersome and malfunctioning and inefficient. it's in keeping with every other bureaucracy the country runs. that said, i think we should pay special attention to veterans because they did do something extraordinary for the country. a lack of political will, political infighting. you know, you're asking me to explain the problems in government. that's a long conversation. >> for a government and for politicians who love to wear flag pins and tie yellow ribbons around their office doors and talk about the truths and not step up when the troops actually need them is despicable. >> you can say no more flag pins. but just get them off your suits and clothing because then you
have to do something substantive rather than relying on a symbol to signal your support of the troops. >> wouldn't that be nice? we've only scratched the surface on this remarkable book, sebastian. it's called "tribe -- on homecoming and belonging." we'll be right back with more "morning joe." real is making new friends. amazing is getting this close. real is an animal rescue. amazing is over twenty-seven thousand of them. there is only one place where real and amazing live. seaworld. real. amazing because you can't beat zero heartburn! i take prilosec otc each morning for my frequent heartburn ahhh the sweet taste of victory! prilosec otc. one pill each morning.
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[engine revving] the all-new audi a4 is here. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is may 24th. mika has the morning off. willie, it's may and this is the time of year she goes around the world and tries to help young armed marxist rebels, trying to train them. i'm in an undisclosed location running counterintelligence operations, but, willie, you and i are going to get through this,
which may be one of the uglier days in recent american political history. i say that because of what happened yesterday. we knew -- we knew that the bill clinton allegations were coming. we didn't think they would come this early or this hard. but the vince foster charges, bringing those up and casting a light on suspicious activities behind an aide's death. that's about as low as it goes. and i'm shocked that it's already happening in may. >> yeah, we're in 1993 conspiracy theory territory right now. we've got a great group around the table to talk about a lot more than that. former communications director for george w. bush, nicolle wallace. the managing editors of bloomberg politics, co-hosts of "with all due respect," mark halperin and john heilemann. >> just 12 hours away. >> this is the pregame show. >> and washington anchor for bbc
news world news america, katty kay. donald trump took his criticisms of former president bill clinton to a new level. resurfacing allegation of sexual misconduct and even a murder conspiracy when he talked about the suicide of vince foster which has been the subject of conspiracy theories. it's something president clinton eluded to at a campaign rally this past friday. >> i know the republicans have been mean to her and say terrible things. you have to respect them. they're good at this. they delegitimize the people they don't like. you think the stuff they said about her is bad? they accused me of murder. our memories are short. it's what they do. >> so then yesterday "the washington post" published this. when asked in an interview last week about the foster case, trump dealt with it as he has with many edgy topics raising doubts about the official version of events, even as he says he does not plan to talk about it on the campaign trail.
he called theorys of possible foul play very serious and the circumstances of vince foster's death very fishy. i don't bring foster's death up because i don't know enough to really discuss it, said trump. i will say there are people who continue to bring it up because they think it was absolutely a murder. i don't do that because i don't think it's fair. both law enforcement officials and a subsequent federal investigation have ruled foster's death a suicide. trump also continued to level the allegation of rape against president clinton yesterday. his campaign posted a video to instagram that spliced a photo of bill clinton smoking a cigar over accusations he sexually assaulted women. clinton was never charged and denied the allegations when they were first
made in the 1990s. trump tweeted the instagram link with a quote, is hillary clinton really protecting women? >> no woman should be subjected to it. it was an assault. >> i tried to pull away from
him. >> trump spoke about the personal nature of his
attacks in an interview last night with bill o'reilly. >> kind of tawdry stuff. i'm not sure that this is a good thing to do that. >> you're talking about what i'm doing? i'm only responding to what they do. they have been nasty. she's been very nasty, and i said i'd like it to be on policy. >> you know that it makes the country look bad abroad and things like that. that's what worries me. i understand the clinton attack machine. i got it. and i think it has to be dealt with somewhat. but i think maybe caution -- >> i don't like doing that. i don't like doing that, but i have no choice. when shed hits me on things, i have no choice so you have to do it. >> let's talk about this as a campaign strategy for a presumptive nominee in a presidential election. in some dark corners of the internet, maybe the vince foster
story still has some currency. when trying to win a general election, how does this help? >> i think it helps about as much as accusing your republican opponent's father of being friends with lee harvey oswald and somehow implying that he may have had something to do with the assassination of jfk. i wonder what nicole -- republicans who are bob corker yesterday, one of them, what republicans who are now going and trying to treat donald trump with respect as their presumptive nominee, what are they thinking? what are you thinking? what are an -- what are people like myself thinkinging? i wonder what me brother is thinking that donald trump is -- and i'll ask him. or i'm sure he'll text me in three seconds and tell me that instead of building a coherent foreign policy, a consistent foreign policy where he doesn't
change positions every year or two, instead of building a coherent education policy, instead of building any coherent policy, that he's going out and he's dredging up murder conspiracies from the 1990s that only cukes were trying to sell 25 years ago. and this is where he is? this is how he was going to grow? this is how he was going to evolve? twitter wars against cnn because of saturday afternoon segments and vince foster conspiracy theories? >> right. and, listen, i think it's good that we spend a beat talking about this, not because the substance of these attacks are worthy of any air time but because they speak directly to donald trump's state of mind. the word inside the trump campaign is the greatest concern is how you get him to want to learn about the intricacies of foreign policy. how do you get him to read
anything other than his own twitter feed? if this is what the campaign is putting out there, this is what's on donald trump's mind. and i think that the polls last week showing him in striking sis stance of hillary clinton, even a couple points ahead in some of the battleground states really showed republicans that he can win this thing. he could be the next president of the united states. but to win over the swath of voters that you need to put you over the top to narrow the gender gap against women, you don't do it by dredging up conspiracy theories. there is a consistent strain of donald trump's political -- brief political life, and it runs through sort of giving legs and voice to the birther movement to demanding to see donald trump's birth certificate, to dredging up -- barack obama, i'm sorry. to dredging up the clinton infidelities and now vince foster. if you are animated by those topics, you are already for trump. so to win over new voters, the kind you need to win a general election, you have to move off
this stuff. >> there is absolutely, mark halperin, no pivot. i've seen no pivot over the last week or two. i've seen a candidate who seems to be going -- digging down even deeper into his bunker at a time he needs to start moving aggressively towards picking up female voters, hispanics. we can go down the list. we talked about it on the show two weeks ago that the window is very short for donald trump to actually start moving in areas to clean up some of the messes that are there when you look at the polls. but no evidence that he's doing that. in fact, he's just pushing down on the accelerator. he's driving the entire party now towards the side of the cliff. >> when he talks like that, it's the press' responsibility to move from being theater critics and marveling at his political skill to saying that the two sides are not fighting equally or with the same degree of
seriousness about the office for which they're running. >> john heilemann, you look at donald trump's approval rating yesterday. 27%. >> yeah. >> you look at the fact that 58% of americans say he's not qu qualified to be president of the united states. >> right. >> 60% of americans say they disapprove of donald trump. 76% of americans say that they disapprove of the way that he treats other people. and it's hard to believe that any of those numbers are going to do anything but go in the opposite direction of where the republican party wants them to go. and, yes, he may bring down hillary and bill clinton's approval ratings, but his go down with this, too. what exactly can anybody tell me the theory of the case inside donald trump's mind or inside donald trump's headquarters for doing this?
>> i can't and i don't think it's a question of within donald trump's headquarters. i think it's within donald trump's own mind. this is a real reflection of some of how he thinks he's going to need to win. and i just have to say, i think it's not even a question of -- clearly this kind of attack is not going to improve his dismal fave/unfave ratings with -- especially with voters who are movable in this country. i don't think he'll drive hillary clinton's numbers down very much. for anybody with whom these attacks resonates, they already hate hillary clinton and believe the worst of the clintons. i think he is setting up the clintons by going after them on this stuff so early it puts them in a position where they can be the high road candidate, and they are pretty -- because he knocked them off their game when he first raised this last december. right now they seem very resolute. being able to argue we're not going to indulge in this. we're going to stay on the high road. we're not going to address it.
we're going to go forward and it's going to be spent. there's not that much more to say once you get to vince foster might have been murdered, where else do you go in the land of clinton conspiracy? this will be spent relatively soon and the clintons will emerge better off because of the fact it looks desperate and it does n-- turned out badly. >> three women accused clinton of sexual misconduct. the women praised donald trump. willie and broderick recounted part of their accusations which the clintons have denied repeatedly. >> it's hard for me to say the word rape. i always usually say sexual assault, but rape is the perfect terminology for what happened. i had made a huge mistake by not coming forward sooner and by denying it, i had denied it. >> because you were afraid. >> oh, yes. yes, i was afraid.
and tell everybody again about the hillary encounter. >> she comes directly over to me and starts her little talk about how appreciative she was of everything i was doing in bill's campaign. and i started to just leave. i didn't want to have anything to do with her. >> and you felt that she knew? >> she grabbed me by the arm and my hand and she pulled me back into her and said very low, she said, do you understand everything you do? and it frightened me. i'm so appreciative to donald trump for bringing it -- i couldn't. it's very difficult for me to bring it forward because it's still too painful, but i appreciate his efforts. >> you're listening in the car on the radio that was juanita broderick talking to sean hannity. katty, that's the theory of the case from donald trump which is that the indiscretions of bill clinton matter only because hillary clinton, according to donald trump, enabled many of
them. >> and he's already made this case before. she is the enabler in chief of his pecadillos. and he'll bring up monica lewinsky and the way she's talked about some of these women. there is a kernel of truth there that there is -- history books have been written. books have been written about the clintons in which hillary clinton did not always resolutely stand up for those women against her husband. that's what he's trying to twist. there are these instances, these quotes about what hillary clinton has said about some of these women and he's trying to say that shows she is not the defender of women that she is trying to portray herself as. the theory of the case for him is i will go after this in order to boost my own approval ratings with women and drag hers down. >> joe? >> yeah, willie, and --
>> depressing. >> i don't know -- i want to be careful how i say this, yes. there are still unresolved questions regarding all of the women who were interviewed on sean hannity last night. no one left the lie to. not only what bill clinton did with these women but also hillary clinton's role in that which maureen dowd has also highlighted, which it's just -- it's not a pretty sight. but i can tell you as somebody that was there on the ground floor back in the 1990s, there's a reason why these issues were not pursued with more vigor, and the reason is politically, after impeachment, the american people did not want to hear about bill
clinton's sexual past. a lot of these women were brushed aside. a lot of them were treated -- they had the clinton operation. called it the sluts and nuts operation where they'd either say women came on to bill clinton inappropriately, or they were nuts. and, yes, it was a very ugly chapt chapter, not only in the clinton's marriage but in politics. i get to my point. in 1999, we saw bill clinton's approval ratings go up to 60, 61%, 62%, 63%. americans did not want to hear about this anymore. they had decided bill clinton did not treat women well and they said, okay. next topic. and they wanted to move beyond it, and they have. i find it hard to believe that 17 years later, mark halperin,
that this will have any more resonance than it had in 1999. >> well, look, joe. trump has shown since this general election got under way that he can dominate the debate every day and the clinton folks said in a prelude to this matchup they knew they had to stop that from happening. she's going to try to talk about housing and the economy and jobs. this show will not be the only one to talk about trump's tactics. it's possible, again, i think this should be less about theater criticism and more about looking at what he's saying and whether it's a serious argument for someone who wants to be president. but it's possible he can dominate days to the extent that the election comes down to which one are you more sick of? which one represents more fundamental change, which is what the voters want, and this may be a way to run out the
clock. >> but nicole, it's may. as john heilemann said. it's may. he started running out the clock pretty quickly and secondly, again, we've said it repeatedly. a republican primary is a republican primaries, a republican primary. i need five minutes with someone that much thes to win a republican primary. i can sit them down and explain this is how you win a republican primary. a general election when running for president of the united states, far, far different, far more complex. and donald trump, i'm flabbergasted he thinks this is going to move him a step closer to the white house. >> exactly because this is not what he needs to shore up, right? he has this base covereded, if you will. people know he's going to play dirty. i think republicans in losing the last two national presidential campaigns were looking for someone tough to go up against the clintons. he's proven he is that guy.
that's how he won the republican primary. but now the people that are left to be convinced to them, he needs to prove he can get his head around complicated questions of commander in chiefdom and he's not answering those questions with these attacks. he's not doing himself any political good with the people that are still on the fence about him. and, frankly, what bob gates raised on this show, the questions about temperament, he makes those questions worse. he hurts his case about temperament. he hurts his case about proving to the people who night even be impressed and convinced that he is the change agent we might need in washington, but they just don't want to put him in charge of america's military arsenal. he is hurting his case with that swath of the jury that is really undecided about both his qualifications and temperament for the top job. >> john heilemann, i agree completely. he's already got the votes that he needs.
anti-clinton votes. we believe in these sort of theories. and this is not -- i mean, this isn't a wash. when you start talking about murder conspiracy theories from 1993 and you start accusing bill clinton of rape for things that happened in the '70s, the '90s, and then all you're doing is, yes, you're locking down your 27% that approve of you nationwide. but you're just pissing off the other 60%. and making them more entrenched. >> think about the math in these last couple of days, the polling that everybody was talking about on television yesterday, including all of us that trump has -- republicans have come home to donald trump. that's one thing that we've seen. he's consolidated republican support. the other thing is he has this big advantage at this moment with independent voters. so what do independent voters
care about. the swing, the people who are going to decide this election. they're not people who are going to be moved by arguments about vince foster or, i think, about arguments about kathleen willey and juanita broderick. if trump wants to go to the idea that bill clinton was running drugs out of the airport. i don't think those are going to move voters. if you look at the polling numbers, a bunch of those people are skrrned about this moment about the fact that donald trump hasn't released his tax returns yet. that's the polling showed that in both of these polls yesterday. maybe only in the abc/"washington post" poll where you had 60% of independents saying they want donald trump to release his taxes which, to me, is a character issue. that's what they are saying. we want to know more about you. we're with you for right now but we want to know more about you and who you are. and if what he's conveying to those voters who are not perm innocently with him is that he'll be fixated on these kinds of issues, i don't think that's a winning strategy. doesn't seem to be the way to win. he's bolstering the base. he's already got the base as
nicolle and everybody else said. it seems this is not a lukely strategy to lock up an election where he is the underdog no matter what else happens. he's the underdog for reasons we all understand about the electoral college and demographics. this is not helping him, i don't think, the way i look at how this is going to play out. >> if you look at our nbc poll out in the last couple of days, hillary clinton has leads among women. also americans favored hillary clinton on women's issues in this poll, 63% to 16%. and if you talk to some independent female voters, people on the fence, they actually resent the idea that hillary clinton should be blamed for the infidelities, indiscretions of her husband. >> what happened to hillary clinton at the end of the 1990ss, more own approval ratings went up. a certain amount of sympathy for her being dragged through the press in the way that she was. you'll see some of that playing into this as well. sympathy, why should she have to deal with bill clinton and bill clinton's affairs. the other number that's interesting. look at that commander in chief
number. 33% donald trump. 43% hillary clinton. i don't think that number is just about security. it's about character. and what donald trump is doing at the moment, the way he is dragging the whole political, national political debate down into the sexual gutter of the sleaziest moments of the 1990s doesn't improve his image as commander in chief of this country. it's a character issue. still ahead -- facebook makes some changes after accusations of bias against conservative websites. plus, hillary clinton wants to focus full-time on donald trump, but she's still fighting with bernie sanders who is now warning of a, quote, messy democratic convention. first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> ugly morning in new york city. amazing. new york city and northeast, we're going to go from an ugly 60 degrees and rain to almost 90 tomorrow just like that. the heat will be turned on full blast. yesterday we had some pop-up thunderstorms. cold air aloft. it produced small hail even in areas like pennsylvania. as long as you are shoveling it
in your shorts you feel all right. it melted in a hurry. the worst weather right now through i-70 in kansas from selina to topeka. there's more to come later today. 90 million people at risk offy is vosevere storms including oklahoma. if we get any isolated tornadoes, they'll be in the western part of those states. storm just off the east coast. cool weather throughout new england and then tomorrow we flip the switch. so for today, 90s minneapolis, huntsville, raleigh. everybody in the 80s. new york city, 89 degrees. you go from 60s to almost 90s in one day. 91 in nashville. we're turning the heat up. and it's going to continue for thursday and right into the holiday weekend. it looks like a very warm memorial day weekend. looks great for the beaches except the water will be freezing cold. new york city and times square, a rainy morning. should be followed up by a beautiful, hot summer-like day
tomorrow. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. (man) oh, looks like we missed most of the show. (woman) and there's no way to restart it. (jon bon jovi) with directv there is. ♪ you see, we've got the power to turn back time ♪ ♪ so let's restart the show that started at nine ♪ ♪ and while we're at it, let's give you back your 'do ♪ ♪ and give her back the guy she liked before you ♪ ♪ hey, that's the power to turn back time. ♪ (vo) get the ultimate all-included bundle. call 1-800-directv. trust number one doctor recommended dulcolax constipated? use dulcolax tablets for gentle overnight relief suppositories for relief in minutes and stool softeners for comfortable relief of hard stools. dulcolax, designed for dependable relief
coming up on "morning joe," what do the governors think of the presidential race? former mississippi governor haley barbour weighs in on the republican side. and colorado's john hickenlooper who supports hillary clinton joins us to represent the democrats. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. one coat, yes! ♪ there is a day, for every number. ♪ ♪ there is a time, for all my slumbers. ♪
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welcome back to" morning joe." let's go right to albuquerque, new mexico, where hallie jackson is on the campaign trail with donald trump who is back on the campaign trail after stirring up a lot of dust yesterday on his instagram and twitter accounts. hallie, what's the trump campaign supposed to be focussing on today? >> well, listen, today, joe, they're back on the campaign trail. this western swing through new mexico heading out to california for fund-raising and north dakota and montana. so what you're going to see is the governor, suzanna martinez, not at his rally today. she's obviously the head of the republican governors association. why not? suzanna martinez says she simply
is really busy and won't be able to make it to the donald trump event here tonight. that's significant. she came out against his temporary proposed muslim ban. new mexico is a state where donald trump will face some challenges with the latino community and we're preparing for protests as well. also reports of finished-raising here, and why know there's a big fund-raiser in l.a. tomorrow. these are the first real big dollar donations donald trump will see for the general election as he mauks the turn to go up against hillary clinton. he's got a big naum on board. it's woody johnson, the new york jets owner. i spoke with a source close to the campaign that says that's a sign the establishment is starting to come on board for trump. johnson was a big bush backer when jeb bush was still in the race and has been somebody who has raised money for the rnc and for these republican candidates in the past. for trump, it's something that he's going to have to do as he looks to raise possibly a billion dollars for the general election, even though he's railed against johnson and against what he calls this special interest money at his campaign rallies in the past. that was then.
this is now. trump looking ahead, guys, here out west. >> thank you, hallie jackson. greatly appreciate it. let's bring in haley barbour, former governor of the great state of mississippi, and also, of course, ran the republican national committee for a very long time. governor, it's interesting, is it not, that just a few months ago, he was railing against woody johnson for giving money to jeb bush to help his family's business. now he's taking that money that he said was dirty and influential. talk about the state of the race and the state of the republican party right now. >> well, i think it's interesting that despite his very high negatives, donald trump has a real clear politics average of all the ballot polling is actual lie ahead of
hillary clinton yesterday. essentially a dead heat. both got 43 point something. trump is ahead by like 0.2 point, which is irrelevant, but in the last poll done by nbc news, he was down 11 or 12 points. he was in the high 30s and she was in the low 50s. that's a big change. that's very positive for trump. and i think it's very negative for clinton. i don't know how much of it is caused by the bernie sanders continuing effort and the -- when he says things like he wants to save the country from two flawed choices, i believe was bernie sanders' term, talking about clinton and trump. that can't be good for ms. clinton. >> do you agree that right now americans have two flawed choices with hillary clinton and donald trump? >> well, they got the two choices that they decided were their best choices. >> right, but i'm asking you --
i'm asking you what's your opinion. do you think donald trump is a flawed choice as a republican nominee? >> i think he is a better candidate for president than hillary clinton. and life is a series of choices. and if the choice is hillary clinton versus donald trump, i'm going to be for donald trump. >> well, what do you think about donald trump's strategy to bring up vince foster murder conspiracy theories from the early 1990s. does that confuse you as a keen political observer? >> well, it does, except for one thing. in "the washington post" today, which carries this story, the story says when donald trump was asked about vince foster. now if a reporter asked him a question, do you expect him not to respond? then the story will be -- >> well, yeah, i -- >> if "the washington post" or whomever it was asked him, and that's what "the washington
post" story said, i have a little -- a little bit less criticism than if he brought it up. >> if i asked you, what do you think about vince foster's death in 1993, i know what your response would be. you'd stay away from it. every other respected republican politician on capitol hill that you and i both know that want to be president of the united states would stay away from it. instead, donald trump talked about it at length and said there were -- i forget the exact words but said seriously believe that he was murdered. something fishy happened. it just didn't make a lot of sense. that's ringing a lot of bells, isn't it? >> i guess if you get asked a question by somebody out of the clear blue sky, sometimes you do make a response that doesn't make any sense because maybe the question didn't make any sense. didn't make any sense to me.
didn't make any sense to me. >> so let me ask you. do you think vince foster was murdered b eed by the clintons? >> i have no idea and have no suspicion that's the case. but i don't know. >> that, sir, is the correct answer. you don't even have to say, i don't know. >> because it's obvious i don't know. >> well, of course. but it's a little hard for me, joe, that in fairness, it's a little hard for me when some guy gets trump or anybody else, gets asked a question out of the clear blue sky, he didn't -- apparently, according to "the washington post" story, he was asked a question. he didn't bring this up. somebody else brought it up. >> governor, that is like hitting the ball off of a tee. and you hit the ball off the tee by saying there are plenty of investigations and the law enforcement officers ruled it suicide, and i believe them. mark halperin, let me throw it
to you for a question. >> governor, i want you to respond to four words. vice president newt gingrich. >> well, i think of it as six words, speaker of the house newt gingrich. i don't know what trump is thinking about vice president. there's some obvious things like john kasich, ohio, no republican has ever been elected president and carried ohio. kasich says he's not interested, but that's normally the response of somebody who gets asked by the press or gets asked by somebody else. that's different than being asked by the candidate, will you be my running mate? but newt is a bright, bright, bright guy. i think there are just some other geographical advantages with some other people. marco rubio, again, critical state, florida. popular guy. very attractive, young.
suzanna martinez came up in the previous story. outstanding governor and a tough state. really a great person. so there are lots of choices. newt is one of those people on the list apparently. i don't have any -- i'm not privy to any information, john, you don't have. >> governor, do you think trump is doing the right things to narrow the gender gap which you know is something you have to do as a republican to win a national campaign for the presidency? >> you know, if i were giving advice, i would get this campaign back to the fact that two-thirds of americans think our country is going in the wrong direction. and that's been over 60% of the polls for three years now. and the main reason they think it's going in the wrong direction is because obama's economic policies have been bad policies, and they've failed. and that's right there evident in the fact that we've had the
slowest growth in any recession since world war ii, averaging about 2.1 or 2.2% a year. median household income is lower than it was when obama became president. americans in the heartland and small business, working class, middle class people, they can't tell the difference between the recession and recovery because the recovery has been so unbelievably weak. that's why two-thirds of americans think the country is going in the wrong direction. the conditions produced by obama's policies, that's what i would be talking about if i were running for president. but, look, donald trump won the nomination. i didn't. he's going to get 12 million or so votes, maybe more than that, more than any other candidate for republican president in history. but that is the advice i would give him. let's get back on what it is that's got the american people feeling so bad about what's going on in the country and about their future. and it's obama's policies and
the results of those policies. >> all right, governor. as always, great advice. we know he's hearing it. we hope he'll follow it. former governor haley barbour, thank you for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. still ahead, we'll be bringing in the governor of colorado who is also reportedly on hillary clinton's short vice presidential list. could john hickenlooper give up the statehouse for the white house. and we'll bring in kasie hunt to see what the campaign thinks about yesterday's attacks from donald trump. groom. turquois dresses... so excited. did all her exes get invited? no one's got moves like uncle joe. ♪ should i stay or should i go? ♪ when it's go, book with choice hotels and get a free $50 gift card for
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up to 48% thicker revive your va va voom and save on any rogaine® democratic governor john hickenlooper of colorado whose name is being floated as one of the top picks to be hillary clinton's running mate. he's out with a new memoir called "the opposite of whoa, my life in beer and politics." also msnbc political
correspondent kasie hunt. she joins the table. now that's a book title. we'll get to that in a second, governor. we've been talking this morning about donald trump's disapproval ratings. and david brooks writes in "the new york times" an op ed where he asks a question, why is clinton disliked and he notes, or 57% disapproval. 60% of americans say hillary clinton doesn't share their values and 64% say she's not honest and trustworthy. what is it about -- we've talked about trump a good bit. what is it about secretary clinton that drives those numbers up. >> i think a lot of that is just the amount of money that's been spent. literally hundreds of millions of dollars. probably over a billion dollars trying to attack every aspect that her opponents can find. ever since the republican primaries began to gear up, there's been a concerted effort. it's not just paid ads.
it's research tanks, social media hits. they've been going at her every single way they can. >> governor, let me ask you about what's going on in the democratic race. you are a clinton supporter, obviously. is bernie sanders doing permanent damage to secretary clinton? >> i don't think so. i think his campaign has maid her a stronger candidate and better. it's gone on longer than i would like or a lot of people would like. he holds these values. he wants kids to come out of college without a lot of debt. she has a more incremental way of her pathway to get those goals is very different than hers. >> bernie sanders won colorado. are bernie sanders voters going to go to donald trump or hillary clinton? what's the risk there? where's the overlap in your state? >> and colorado is a very independent state. one-third independent. one-third republican and one-third democrat. that's going to be the battle in colorado. hillary clinton is going to get most of them. >> governor, you have a book called the opposite of whoa. my life in beer and politics.
you became rich making beer. that's kind of everybody's dream. >> getting rich drinking beer is everybody's dream. >> you are a geologist who went to wesleyan. >> yes. >> what is not what i'd be put down as a guess for someone who got rich making beer. >> when you are in the bottom of a great depression or recession in the late '80s, rent was $1 a square foot per year. we took an old warehouse and put a brewery and restaurant in it and it became popular. we did another one and another one. about 14 of them around the country. when we opened, we were the 60th brewery to be licensed in the united states. now over 4,000. craft beer has become a major thing. i was there at the right place. i worked 70 hours a week for many years but i was very lucky. >> your book is also brutally honest about your life. you write about your dad's death
when you were 8 years old. you write about your divorce. most politicians put a positive spin on those things and you rip off the band-aid. why? >> i ran for office in 2003. i never ran for student council and got talked into running for mayor. trying to get people to believe in government. democracy is a fragile instrument. if people don't believe in it, if they don't believe at all in it, it gets a lot weaker. rather than do a typical kind of here's why i'm great. here's what i've done, we've covered all the challenges and what we accomplish but i also wanted people to see warts and all and be transparent and as honest as i could be. >> just tell the truth and the whole truth and trust the voters and it worked. >> there's a certain hunger out there for real people with real lives and real jobs and now they'll give some 10 or 15 years to public service. that's sort of the way the founding fathers imagined it, right? >> would you advise hillary clinton to be more that way in
her own political dealings in life? >> i think to be honest, when i hang out -- this has happened once in my life. you hang out with hillary clinton, she is charming and very empathetic. she's one of the best listeners i've met in politics. i'm from that school that if you want to persuade someone, don't tell them what you think. listen to what they think and have that -- listen harder and then they open up and you can persuade them when you find a different kocompromise. she's brilliant at that. >> thank you, governor. you've persuaded me that i had a misspent youth. should have spent more time like with beer. the book is "the opposite of woe, my life in beer n politics." it hits bookshelves today. governor john hickenlooper, thanks for being with us. we appreciate it. good luck with the book. >> thank you. facebook says there's no evidence of bias in its trending topics section, but the site still is going to make changes anyway. we're going to have the details
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the editors that have a hand in the trending page. it's going to get rid of the list of top news websites that initially is assigned a level of importance at a topic. this way the algorithm could create all stories equally. and it will also make a number of other changes all in an effort to clear up the process so that no bias is injected in its political stories on the trending topics page and to just help be more transparent. remember this all comes in response to a gizmodo article citing an unnamed employee that accused facebook of treating conservative stories differently and not assigning any priority to them. the company has been under fire. it still maintains, though, an internal review found no evidence of manipulation of its stories or efforts to quash conservative news. senator john thune also sent facebook a letter demanding changes. these changes were largely seen as a response to this.
clearly facebook is denying any wrongdoing. they are taking the matter very seriously. they met with conservative personalities last week. they are on top of it. they are making changes which is somewhat unusual for facebook to be so transparent about some of its internal processes. >> it really is. sara eisen, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. coming up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? life insurance automobile insurance i spent 20 years active duty they still refer to me as "gunnery sergeant" when i call being a usaa member because of my service in the military to pass that on to my kids something that makes me happy my name is roger zapata and i'm a usaa member for life. usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. think fixing your windshield is a big hassle? nowith safelite. this family needed their windshield replaced but they're daughters heart was set on going to the zoo. so guess what, i methem at the zoo.
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welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned today. alex notified me that it is one kasie hunt's birthday today. she turns 21. how exciting. what have you learned? >> on your birthday, what did you learn? >> haley barbour doesn't have any suspicions about vince foster and if you want someone to open a bottle of beer at 9:00 in the morning, ask john heilemann. >> keep your constituents drunk and high at all times and you'll have a good approval rating. >> i'm surprised the bottle is still closed and john heilemann hasn't drunk it. >> it's my birthday. >> his her beer, not mine. >> sebastian junger has a different take of ptsd. >> this is the first day it took me two of these to get through it. joe if it's way too early, what time is it? >> it's time for "morning joe,"
but stick around because the rage, man. the rage, steve kornacki starts right now. >> the sweater rage. >> the sweater rage. >> all right. good morning. i'm steve kornacki. we're looking live at pictures of a pennsylvania courthouse. bill cosby set to arrive there any minute now. evidence against cosby being presented this morning for the first time. the first time ever in a criminal hearing that's going to determine whether or not cosby will stand trial. his accuser, andrea konsti, possibly taking the stand today. a chance she could be in the same room as bill cosby. she accuses cosby of drugging and molesting her back in 2004. much more on that straight ahead. it's a situation we'll be following closely and watch iin all hour. topping our political agenda, donald trump goes back to the 1990s. a new video going