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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  May 24, 2016 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT

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good afternoon, i am chris hayes in new york. donald trump laid out his general election strategy eight days ago, made people question the judgment of his competitor clinton. a lot would revolve around her husband, bill clinton. mou it is manifesting into thoroughly debunked conspiracy theories of a clinton era white house aide. and the investigation in question has long since conclud concluded, trump is bringing it back. he is putting it back in public discussion. "the washington post" asked about vince toss ter death, i don't bring it up because i don't know enough to discuss it. i will say there are people who continue to bring it up because
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they think it was absolutely a murder. i don't do that because i don't think it's fair. trump has his first campaign fund-raiser set for tonight. why is he in albuquerque for a fund-raiser? >> he is in albuquerque for a rally, chris, and the fund-raiser is something being incorporated into this whole thing. remember, the joint funding agreement between trump and the rnc was signed last week. the fundraising apparatus, machine, is only in place five or six days, which is why what you're hearing from money folks, a real urgency, need to play catch up this is the line people waited in. he is at the home of long time
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friend, tom barrett. separate from the kinds of rallies -- double. >> hillary clinton has signed her joint funding agreement last august. trump has a lot of catchup to play. he has talked about being self funded. he talked about it all through the primary, frankly for supporters, some of whom are lining up in albuquerque, it is appealing. they like that he is self funding his campaign. he was collecting donations. he has a conflict between trump's primary campaign messaging and realities of having to run a general election that's going to be very expensive. looking at maybe a billion dollars. all of that is what trump is
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looking at over the next 48 hours as we prepare for h his event. people are lining up since this morning when we first got out here. after his california swing, he had north dakota and montana, he is giving an energy, policy speech in north dakota. trump wants to be rolling out policy speeches over the next two months. ten of them before the convention. we will see how it goes. >> hallie jackson, albuquerque, new mexico. bass i will smik he will, director of new york state democratic party, political analyst joan walsh, national affairs correspondent, michael brennan doherty. the time machine. hot tub time machine. clinton wars edition. i am not sure where to start with this, let me say this. suggesting, first of all, start with this. he has a habit, trump, of
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anything raised to him, anything. >> any conspiracy theory. >> doesn't matter. i like to picture his e-mail inbox, all subject forward forward forward, benghazi sex scandal, something, any conspiracy theory, no matter how ridiculous it is. >> he likes to get the audience. it is a crowd source campaign, he is throwing stuff back out there. so far with the republican primary it's worked. i just think that bringing vince foster into the context of the general election is ridiculous and it is going to back fire. >> i'm sorry, and this is a guy put it and raised specter that ted cruz's father had a hand in the kennedy assassination. >> on election day in indiana, which he later was like i don't know, it was just out there. >> there are no holds barred for donald trump. i absolutely agree, there's no down side with the electorate.
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this works. >> michael, you're an astute observer of how this plays out. there are lots of ways of going after clinton that may or may not be effective. maybe vince foster, maybe the ex-president and his wife had a dude murdered. that's not a normal, this is not a normal campaign, they're really getting in the one, one is calling the other a possible murderer. this is not what would normally happen. it doesn't seem politically expedient to me. >> recently this week we had the she earned $23 million in speeches between when she left as secretary of state until the time the campaign got heated up. he could be talking about free speeches for goldman, sachs. >> and you could differ under
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your interpretation of the facts but the facts are there. she did give the speeches, she did get paid for it. >> that's a potent attack point for trump, he hired a former goldman, sachs guy to help with fundraising and campaign. >> he is not insulated from it the way bernie sanders is. explain this. why is it we spent the first eight days right into the '90s stuff. seems like a bizarre place to go. >> i can't speak to his mind. literally he could have seen one of the '90s era bumper sticker, if vince foster had a gun, he'd still be alive. >> i remember that one. >> that could be the reason. >> but the thing is it seems that they had a low bar to clear, maybe that's the public's bar, that the idea that he would say crazy things is sort of
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built in. hundreds of reports from people out of rally, yeah, well he said something kind of crazy, that's kind of far out there, he's still my guy. >> i talked to trump supporters, dozens, who say that, there's no way way he is going to build a wall. they seem quite level headed. it is like expression of something. saying something other than the actual -- >> he has the right values, as far as they're concerned, even if he doesn't do these things. the clintons are horrible, could be murderers he has the right values about the clintons, that's the republican electorate, that's what they believe, i don't think you take it to general election and do well. >> can we turn the topic not in language about clinton and murderer in the same sentence. take that off the table. that said i think what's important is i don't want to diminish the electorate or the
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people out there that feel a certain amount of angst and anxiety, anything you hear that pokes jabs at their view of the establishment is what's carrying the day. any sort of conspiracy theory from the '80s or beyond i think is continuously stoking the fuel. >> this feels narrow cast to me. it has been amazing to watch this, you have the sort of main conspiracy theorist, one of the most popular in american life, there's a crazy vortex of stuff from the '90s, dan bird enfiring a gun into a pumpkin or whatever it was, sitting there, and now is exploding. part of the challenge strikes me, and you referenced it, the press --
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>> donald trump can say whatever because he is the candidate. >> this plain vanilla politifact research. >> fact check. >> just say like, you know, during the indiana race when or illinois when he accused ted cruz's father of being involved in the kennedy assassination, reporters went on television and said this is definitively record scratched, pay attention. it is ridiculous. >> don't let this float as a thing out there. >> that's happening with vince foster. today is a day reporters have done their job. i don't think we see the sunday shows all debating two sides, we've got two sides. >> but the issue is the republican attack dog machine
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has for years been discrediting institutions we use to try to fact check and hold politicians accountable. so the general electorate, more so republican base doesn't trust what they say, when they debunk and fact check. >> they've also delegitimized this president and that clearly stoked fear. that the government is not legitimate, the president is not legitimate. i expect the willie horton ad to come soon. every attack ad i think he will throw at us. >> let's be clear, this is also how much they delegitimized, serious people in the republican party floated the theory it is possible the man was a murderer. had currency in elite circles of the conservative movement. >> listen, there are always crazy theory crop up on the edge of political circles, theories
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in 1992 that george h.w. bush was going to bomb iraq during the republican convention to get a boost. there were theories he was unfaithful to barbara, when was that going to come out during the '92 election. this is almost internet culture. >> channeled back through the candidate. >> a lot of people are doing this, it is almost intentional participation in trolling. and this happens left and right, you see story from whole foods in texas making a hate cake. there's an element of people will believe it, get this on the media. >> this is purpose fully done. >> i don't know. clear that robert costa asked about this. this is the standard pose of donald trump when asked, i don't know, maybe there's something there.
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that's the default posture. >> i think he is masterful at this. one of the things going back to accountability, he says something, as soon as he is checked on it, he will tweet something else. it will take you someplace else. >> i don't know is a very powerful phrase he uses a lot. he used this about -- i don't know about the seventh day add ven 'tises. >> i remember in the '90s feeling like a lot of the psychodrama around clinton and gingrich, fighting baby boomer old wars. now it is like we're -- now it is 20 years later and those themselves were weird, now when you're here and fighting the '90s war again. it is bizarre to me to imagine
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that's promising political terrain for the republican candidate to fight on. maybe i'm wrong. >> i think you're right, but i think he thinks you're wrong. it does go back to -- he would have been a better president if they hadn't been make things stick, it was also a sexual witch-hunt. i think they saw that that worked. it riled up their base, they continued it with obama, the notion that democrats are illegitima illegitimate. they'll find a way to delegitimize her. >> let me say this for context, then we will take a break. in the poll yesterday, i am losing track of the days, the highest favorability rating for barack obama, number two is bill clinton. bill clinton is not wildly
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reviled figure. >> the attacks enhanced his popularity. >> that was the moment of his peak. still to come, bill cosby will stand trial for aggravated sexual assault. first time a case like this has reached this stage. at the break, what the 78-year-old said before the judge. traitor. traitor. and i know a thing or two about trading. so i trade with e*trade, where true traders trade on a trademarked trade platform that has all the... get off the computer traitor! i won't. (cannon sound) mobility is very important to me. that's why i use e*trade mobile. it's on all my mobile devices, so it suits my mobile lifestyle and it keeps my investments fully mobile... even when i'm on the move. sign up at etrade.com and get up to six hundred dollars. [ "dreams" by beck ]
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sexual assault case against legendary actor bill cosby will go to trial. a pennsylvania judge decided the
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case should proceed after enough evidence was presented. he is accused of drugging and molesting a former temple university employee in his mansion in 2004. cosby maintained the encounter was consensual. repeatedly denied all allegations of sexual misconduct. his attorney released a statement saying mr. cosby is not guilty of any crime and not one single fact presented by the commonwealth rebuts this truth. though the court decided the government reached the low threshold required for today's preliminary hearing, we have no doubt this will be resolved in mr. cosby's favor. janet sham lean joins us with more. >> reporter: this gives us a lay of the land, what might happen in the trial. defense attorneys used the word lie when referring to andrea constant, and said why did she
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weigh wait so long with the allegations. they didn't cross examine. on the other side, we heard the prosecutors go back to the documents from more than ten years ago of cosby acknowledging that there had been sexual contact and saying that it was consensual. after the hearing today cosby's attorneys had -- were very angry. here's what they had to say. >> prove there was no crime committed, no evidence of a crime here, the inconsistencies that plagued this case from the beginning, this case should end. >> reporter: cosby waived arraignment. it is scheduled for july 20th. that means he doesn't have to come back in july, but he will be back for the first day of trial, likely to be the second half of 2016, if not pushed into
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next year. the prosecuting attorney says they only had to prove a crime was committed, they're satisfied and looking forward to going to trial. this is a significant day. more than 50 women have made some type of sexual abuse allegation against the ba entertainer. these are punishable of up to ten years in prison and fines. >> here with me, msnbc chief ari melber, karen desoto, defense attorney, former prosecutor. so what happened today was they cleared a low evidentiary bar to go to trial, right? >> the preliminary hearing is to make sure elements of the crime are present, when they're true or not doesn't matter. defense attorneys use this to get as much information.
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>> get stuff thrown out. >> get as much info as they can. >> here is my question, ari. is your understanding the defense will be, the facts as established in the deposition from the civil suit happened, that he gave her pills, she was under the influence when they had sex and that was consensual will be the defense? >> they'll reserve the right to do what they want to do as time goes on. so we are speculating. from what we have seen thus far, that appears to be the defense, they may be tied to what mr. cosby himself said. there was a moment today in the courtroom where the prosecutor referred to mr. cosby's prior denial regarding oh, did you have sex with her, he said neither awake nor asleep. the prosecutor said who talks like that. there's enough of bill cosby's denials or explanations that the prosecution thinks will help them, but a lot yet we don't know how it will go down. >> here's my question. i don't understand, explain this
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to me. you have a civil suit, okay? bill cosby deposed around the civil suit, he says under oath, he is deposed, then there's a settlement and that's sealed. >> correct. >> now we have it. why do we have it? because a judge said basically give me a break, we're not keeping this under seal like we have all these people accusing this man. >> hard to keep things sealed with criminal charges pending. there was agreement between the two of them it would be sealed, that will be one of the arguments the defense will come forward and make a motion to try to keep the depositions out. >> that seems to be a huge part of the ball game in this case. the difference between making the case with the deposition in which he is saying things that, you know -- >> unfortunately there's a lot of other admissions he made that are going to be problematic that weren't even in the deposition. that's a problem as well. >> i would second that. you were talking earlier in the show about conspiracy theories,
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how they work, people pick up anything. a trial is the opposite end of that. as you know, it is all about what comes in, right? if the evidence gets narrowed, the cosby team will do a good defense, they'll try to narrow it down. when it is said and done, the jury looks at whether they believe the one accuser and what they think happened that night, and is there reasonable doubt that something was misunderstood, was not quite maybe right but not quite rising to all of the elements of the crime. the prosecutor mr. steel said he is looking to do, that's his job, try to broaden this, bring in the other stuff, other accusers, if not bring in bill cosby's statements to painted a wider picture. >> viewing this from a nonlegal perspective, i am a citizen, do i think bill cosby did this or not, there are 50 women who have accused him of something like this. >> are you going to find a juror that hasn't heard, read the
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papers, had the television on. >> i am not saying definitively one way or the other, all i am saying is watching this passively, a pattern appears to be -- either a pattern or false accusations or pattern of real accusations. >> have you been following the case, reading the papers, that's one of the things you may get a juror kicked off for. >> what about admissibility of other stuff in trial. what jurors heard in an ambient sense, there's no way it is all coming in. >> all of that is debated and litigated. to your point, what you ask the jurors, you try to nail down, even if you have heard about this, do you think there's a chance this person is innocent, is not guilty, and if you don't, if you answer honestly, people are cynical about the system, you and i have report on segments, i will tell you this.
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when you get enough people in a room that want to report to jury service, want to be honest, i saw an interview with 20 plus women, i don't trust the man, you say thank you for your honesty. >> and also do it to get off jury duty. >> you do that, try to find people with an open mind. >> i would just say god bless the person that's like i have seen 20 accusations, but i don't know. >> the next thing the judge says can you put that aside, listen to the evidence unbiased. >> one further, the question is not what you think of 20 accusations, are you willing to think only about this one accusation, he is not on trial for that. >> the unconscious mind works in mysterious ways. >> about to get deep. >> in a legal sense, he is not, but in a broader sort of socio political sense, he is. keep in mind, this stuff was
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floating around, there was a prosecutor's race -- the social milieu in which this is operating is saturated with accusations against the man. >> if you believe in the politics of back lash, the fact that for decades bill cosby and many other prominent, powerful men basically got a free pass, no matter how many accusations there were. that also goes in the mind of some jurors. as you say, that's grist for the mill. a major change at the tsa will help cut down on lines at the airport this summer. and so... my new packing robot will make jet warehouses even more efficient... and save shoppers money. genius! (smoke alarm sounds) oh no... charlene? ...no... charlene.
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just days before start of the summer travel season, major changes at the tsa. the organization under fire over long security lines in airports
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across the country. tom costello covers the airline industry and has the details. tom? >> reporter: hey, chris, good afternoon to you. i think you have to call it a shakeup at the tsa, it involves the man in charge of airport checkpoint security, named kelly hoggan. he is now out after this what is described as debacle at tsa check points across the country, lines stretching one, two, three hours in some cases, from seattle to newark, atlanta, to chicago o'hare, across the country. these checkpoint lines have grown by the day in many cases, and the reason is they don't have enough people working the check points they've let a lot of them go in the last few years, 5,000 or so fewer screeners than a few years ago. that was the responsibility of kelly hoggan, the administrator, assistant administrator who has
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been essentially demoted to an unspecified post. now the challenge is to rebuild the work force, but no way they can do it in enough time. we are in the midst of this push with passengers coming through tsa check points, expected to hit 2.5 million over the summer. tsa makes the point it takes about six weeks once they hire somebody before they're on the job and operating on their own. in other words, out of the academy, out of the training stage at their home base and actually operating on their own, yet they have this terrible attrition problem. the reason is that they're part time, they want full-time work or get frustrated with the monday ott knee and stress of the job and walk away. they're trying to get people up to staff. that will take time. in the middle of this, they have
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a problem with terrible morale, and record numbers of travelers. so first step of this is removing this system administrator who many believe had been at the heart of the morale problems within the tsa. now we have this action, the union that represents the tsa saying that congress needs to immediately spend the money to hire 6,000, 6,000 more tsa screeners, which is as many as have been let go in the last few years and then some as we gear up for the summer travel season and beyond. at this hour the tsa continues to try to rebuild itself, and they have let go, removed, reassigned the tsa management team in place at chicago o'hare, put a new team in place there. that after last week's scenario where we had two hour waits, people missing flights, sleeping on the floor. today we had an nbc news team
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moving through the tsa checkpoint at chicago o'hare, reported minimal delays, 20 minutes or so and spot check of the whole country today shows minimal delays. on average 20, 30 minutes. really it is a tuesday in may. things may kick up when we head into memorial day weekend. >> tom costello. hillary clinton wrapped up a campaign event, a new attack on tru trump, accusing him of rooting for the housing crash. vo: across america,
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trump is toast. >> that was bernie sanders today, the campaign rally in anaheim, california promising victory over donald trump should he become the democratic nominee. meanwhile, hillary clinton has a new web video out, it highlights remarks he made in 2006 when he predicted he would make a big profit on the housing bubble pop, a line clinton repeated moments ago in california. >> donald trump said when he was talking about the possibility of a housing market crash before the great recession, he said i sort of hope that happens. he actually said that. he actually said he wa hoping for the crash that caused hard working families in california and across america to lose their homes, all because he thought he could take advantage of it to
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make some money for himself. >> so we are back with the panel. this strikes me, it is interesting to watch the clinton campaign work towards what the theory of the case against donald trump is. they started with he's just like another republican. i remember that statement, he wants to cut taxes for the rich. i thought to myself no, that's not a credible or plausible theory the reason he's bad is he is a republican. >> i think the point doing that early on, i don't think anybody thought early on he was going to emerge, it was to tie marco rubio to the extreme of trumpism to seems like it is similar. i think that's what she's doing. i don't think they thought that was the best one on one strategy against him. just throwing that out there. >> i worry about this line of attack for clinton. in a sense, she's
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highlighting -- there's a housing bubble, going to crash, and i'm going to make some -- not like donald trump could prevent that housing bubble from happening. i understand she's saying it is a wicked thing to hope for, obviously meant massive dislocation, unemployment, people losing their homes. i think it would be better to highlight at the same time he was saying this, he was telling students of trump university there is no housing bubble. >> exactly. not only that, i don't know if we have the sound in the control room, let me know if i'm wrong, there's him like oil is going to go, gas prices if barack obama is reelected are going through the roof. made a million predictions, a million directions that have been mostly wrong. >> your point, greed is one of his key selling points. he says i am going to be greedy for you. i like to grab the money. some speech went on and on, like
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a dr. seuss book, but he kept talking about how his greed was an advantage for him. >> here to me is the key thing. i feel like if there's one lesson learned from the primary, one thing that did work for awhile among republican primary voters and focus groups and polling, like this is a big swindle. a big con. he is the guy will tell you what you need to hear to get in the car, drive off the lot. it remains the most effective way to talk about the guy. you attack for policies, they're going to change tomorrow. >> one of the underlying themes of the campaign is that the system is rigged. if hillary can say he is one of them -- then i think it is effective. the more he goes on attack, more that you undermine the sense that the system is rigged, i am going to change it, but you take
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from others' pockets, it undermines that narrative. >> the greed, greed, greed, money, money, money thing worked in the primary. will it work turning to the general. what she talks about rise up the obama coalition. latino households were wiped out by the crash. >> world war ii. >> i think again you can say that didn't work and that didn't work and that didn't work, that's all true, but this is a different world. >> here to me is what's interesting about this from a sort of perspective of how it works structurally. the thing that trump is best at is giving every cable news producer sitting around here and everyone in the page one meeting of "the new york times," content for the day. i come into the building, i plan the rundown, and then it is
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today, the vince foster thing. what today shows me is they have to match that day by day. it is the structural nature of the content vacuum, if they don't have their story that day, trump does x, then the story of the day is whatever, maybe the ex-president, vince foster. they don't have that, that's what this day is weirdly about from a removed perspective. >> i think that's interesting. one of the things i would say, you compare donald trump to mitt romney, both billionaires, compare donald trump to mitt romney. one of the reasons romney didn't sell, he was elitist. i think the more you talk, strategically goes after, undermines that, you could be
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like me, but do you want to be like this guy, he is unruly, unstructured, undisciplined, that's not the kind of leader you want. going back to the greed comment, he made his money on your backs. >> that's the new line. if he wins, you lose which is a version of what rubio used. >> i see ways he can joke that okay, put hillary clinton in the white house, then she won't collect six figure checks from public colleges that are funded by taxpayers. >> that line of -- we're going to see it i think. it is harder to do that. i agree there's something potent about that to a certain extent in the democratic primary. >> and kasie hunt joins us with the latest on the democratic campaigns. what have you got?
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>> reporter: hi, chris. we're looking today at comments that senator sanders made first to the associated press where he said the convention was going to be messy. of course raising the specter of we're not sure what exactly, maybe replay of nevada, maybe protests from sanders supporters, sanders himself trying to tinker with the democratic platform. he's gotten what he wants in large part on the platform committee. listen to how he explained himself. >> i am disappointed, not surprised, she agreed to do this debate, now she has chosen not to. >> you have had a number of debates. why do you feel you need another one in california? >> been awhile. the number of debates we had paled to those she had with barack obama in 2008.
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look, i happen to think the media in general does not do a great job covering the most important issues facing our country. how do we reverse decline of the middle class. what do we do about income, wealth, equality. should we have a carbon tax to save the planet and reverse climate change. there are many issues to california, they should be debated. >> the dnc said you're going to play a big role in shaping the party's platform if you do not win the nomination and yet in an ap article, you predict a messy convention. what does messy mean, senator sanders. >> messy means, the media often take words out of context. the context was that democracy is messy. that people will have vigorous debate on the issues. >> will the convention be messy? >> of course it will be, but that's what democracy is about.
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if you use the word messy, it means people will be engaged in vigorous debate. we don't have that often in the united states. i think that's what a convention is about. i happen to believe we should have a national health care system guaranteeing health care to all people. secretary clinton disagrees. i hope there will be a vigorous debate. that's what i mean by messy. messy is where people have debate over important issues facing the country. >> you said that secretary clinton, the american people see secretary clinton as the lesser of two evils. >> what i said is media does a good job taking things out of context. what i said is her negative numbers are high. is that true? >> absolutely. >> donald trump's negative numbers are high. is that true? >> absolutely. >> that's what i said. what i mean by that is i would like in the general election for the people of this country to
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have the opportunity not just to vote against somebody, vote against trump, i want the american people to vote for something. >> to your point, your main goal is defeat donald trump. when you use language like lesser of two evils -- >> when the media don't take things out of context, i just explained the context. you asked me two questions today where words were taken out of context. you asked about the word messy. >> that's the lead. >> what i meant by that and what i said is that democracy is messy. people have debates. we don't live, thank god in authoritarian country. they may raise their voice now and then, that's american democracy. what i meant by the other statement that i think you're taking out of context is the fact that you have trump and
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clinton are high negative ratings, is that true? >> absolutely. >> and i would hope that we have an election where it is not just about people voting against somebody, i want people to vote for somebody. >> at the end of this, do you feel a loyalty, last question. do you feel a sense of loyalty to the democratic party? what would you say to democrats? >> i have a very strong sense that donald trump would be a disaster if he were elected president of the united states. his bigotry is tearing our people apart, his insults to the mexican, latino, muslims, women is not what a candidate for president should be expressing and i'm going to do everything i can to beat him. >> significant flashes of anger from bernie sanders there, and you heard him criticize the media which he did repeatedly there, i think that's a
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reflection of some of the frustration he has felt with what he and those close to him feel is refusal to take him seriously, i think there's a deeply held belief in the sanders campaign that that fundamental reality is possibly the thing standing most significantly in the way of having a chance to win the nomination and i think you heard that reflected there in that interview. the question, of course, whether or not sanders is at this point willing to do what democratic officials hope he does, which is step out of the way after the primaries set to occur june 7th or june 14th. the final set of voting on the democratic side, but it is not clear if bernie sanders is willing to do that, the question, what does the intervening five week period between end of voting and the
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convention mean for hillary clinton and how much does that hurt her, chris. >> kasie hunt, thank you very much. the panel will be back with more in a moment. don't go anywhere. from bank of america to buy a new gym bag. before earning 1% cash back everywhere, every time and 2% back at the grocery store. even before he got 3% back on gas. kenny used his bankamericard cash rewards credit card to join the wednesday night league. because he loves to play hoops. not jump through them. that's the excitement of rewarding connections. apply online or at a bank of america near you. my bladder leakage made me feel like i couldn't be the father that i wanted to be. now i use depend. i can move the way i really want. unlike the bargain brand, new depend fit-flex underwear is now more flexible to move with you. reconnect with the life you've been missing. get a free sample at depend.com. [ male announcer ] tora bora fallujah argonne khe sanh
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i want to finish up quickly with the sanders interview which we didn't get to talk about. i do think, do you think there are big platform fights? when it is this messy, what this telegraphs to me, i meant what i said about putting people on the platform committee, we're going to fight about it. >> i think that's what he means. you send cornell west, you're going to have fighting. i think the more i think about this, the craziest appointment, it dares president obama who tried to stay out of it, june
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15th, man, if sanders doesn't quietly do the right thing and suspend his campaign, keeps saying we're going to the convention, i predict president obama will come out for her. >> you might see that. but two things that startle me about the video is that one, i do agree what isn't covered as much is the fact that yes, he is picking up delegates and also picking up committee members. so the accumulation of that over these primaries does give him some leverage on the committee. >> does that matter? it is not like -- >> it does actually. >> -- the nominee is bound to implement that in the platform. it is a weird fight. >> it does matter a bit. my guess is a lot of stuff will be something that the democrats end up promoting. one of my concerns is when it is democratic politics, doesn't answer loyalty to the party, what bothers me about that and
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the fact that he is supporting challengers to debbie wasserman schultz, that hurts the party. how do we get our candidates elected down ballot. that essentially hurts us. >> i think there's a deep philosophical question about whether people feel fidelity to the part as a constitution or as a vehicle. >> only been in the party a year. why put party unity -- >> but you're talking about a lot of the issues he is talking about, some of those, presidential politics is very sexy, but on a state level, that's where you have policies -- >> i feel about parties that they have the same sort of like moral status as a unit. they exist for some logistical reasons, i don't care what the party as a thing is, we are there because that's how we coordinate certain behavior. >> some don't feel that way, it is their team. >> that's my feeling, my
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idiosyncratic feelings about that. great to have you here, thanks to the panel. that does it for us. i am chris hayes. i will be back at 8:00 p.m. the film makers behind the movie "wienner" one of the best movies. it is tuesday. is it brains versus bravado? one candidate is on message and doing it by a specific play book, the other one is off the cuff and throwing the book out the window. trump's head versus his gut. this is mtp daily. good evening, chuck todd here in

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