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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  May 27, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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using the arena to play basketball as late as june 9th. that's four weeks before the convention starts. it takes at least six weeks to set up for the national convention. what's amazing is this problem did not come up out of the blue. they knew this might be a problem back in 2014. in fact, their original convention target date was in june. one of the factors they considered when they ultimately pushed it back to july was that cleveland had just signed king james back onto the team. that's part of the reason the republicans pushed their convention back to july. but if lebron james and the cavaliers win tonight and go to the finals, that july date will not have been pushed enough. they tried to account for it. they didn't. donald trump has said he wants this year's republican convention to have more of a showbiz feel. how about more of a sweaty basketball arena feel? watch this space.
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that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again next week. now it's time for continuing live coverage for tonight's breaking news. for that we turn to ari melber. we are monitoring the situation in san diego. the scene has fairly calmed after those protests did at times turn violent this evening. more than a thousand protesters gathered outside the san diego convention today where donald trump was holding the rally, just 16 miles from the border with mexico. this is the closest donald trump has actually gotten to the u.s.-mexico border since all wait back in august when he visited laredo, texas. there was a clash between protesters and police outside the convention center even as trump was speaking and addressing fans. now, after the rally ended, you've probably seen some of this if you've been near a tv. the situation did escalate. trump supporters were leaving the rally and they were able to
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move around a large police presence and confront anti-trump protesters which led to arguments, clashes, and unfortunately a few violent scenes. the san diego police declared an unlawful assembly. that was around two hours ago and they moved to disperse many of the protesters. at least three arrests were made, according to police. joining us now from the scene in san diego, nbc's katey tur. thank you for joining us. what can you tell us about how things have unfolded and what they look like now. >> well, things are considerably calmer, as you just said s, ari. they have pushed the protesters quite a dance from the convention center. that's where they are holding the line. last we heard, there were about 100 protesters who were being stubborn, if you will, and refusing to leave. the police department repeatedly giving an announcement saying that if you do not disperse, you
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will be arrested. despite that, only three arrests so far for the day, and that is despite quite a number of clashes. protesters came out earlier by the thousands to voice their anger against donald trump, many of them clashing with trump supporters and also clashing with police. a number of those protesters trying to pierce the barricade, breach the barricade to get to the convention center where donald trump was speaking inside and getting into a fight, really, with the cops who were trying to push them away. other protesters got into it with supporters as supporters left the convention hall. the police were trying to avoid any clashes, avoid any confrontations by putting the 10,000 or so supporters that were inside that convention hall by sending them out through the back door. but many of them came around and decided to confront the protesters regardless, and that's when we saw some of the violence break out. that's typically what we do see at these trump events that draw
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large-scale protests. they are calm and relatively peaceful until the supporters are let out of the venue. and by that time everybody has been waiting around for quite a bit and they are -- the ones that are still waiting, some of them are certainly itching for a confrontation, and that's what we see happen. donald trump has been in california three times this week. he was in albuquerque earlier this week. each time, each of those appearances were marked by large-scale protests. this seems to be the norm now when dond trump goes to a larger city. ari? >> all right. nbc's katy tur, thank you. we'll go back to davjacob basco who was there. we were showing some footage from earlier this evening when people were holding donald trump's red make america great
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hats up in the air and burning them. tell us about the scene and how it relates to other protests in context. >> reporter: so right now if we start with what we're looking at, this is a wall of police officers, clearly, and they have given what they say is their final warning, and they have been shooting what they call pepper spray balls. in fact, we have one of them here. it's just filled with pepper spray and it makes it hard to breathe, it makes your eyes burn. and whenever a protester -- we'll swing around and you can see the few that are left up close-ish, whenever they get close enough and they don't move fast enough, then the officers shoot these balls and then they come up and they make arrests. as we swing around, and you'll see mostly media, but back there there are other protesters. in total there are probably only a few dozen left out of nearly 2,000 to begin with. how does it compare to other protests we've seen? this has been -- this has lasted about as long as any of the
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other protests we've seen, and it's been about as intense as any we've seen. we saw personally up close a lot of fist fights between supporters and protesters. the san diego police department was incredibly prepared for this. they had barricades, they had buffer zones, they had a massive police presence. but as we've seen, and katy talked about this over and over, that when the protesters stick around until after the rally and the supporters come out and the two groups find each other, there is no real plan for that. all the plans seem to break down as they did tonight. we saw supporters mingling with protesters, you got the fist fights. the police in riot gear tried to move in and separate them. it didn't really work because there were still some "make america great again" hats within the protester crowds, and then you got more fights. we're down to only this, a few dozen left. the officers who are willing now to use these pepper spray balls coming in to make their arrests. we've seen probably a dozen or
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so protesters detained and that's the scene so far. >> jacob, a lot of the protest groups we heard from, including leadership in advance said they had an explicit message that donald trump had the right to hold an event, but they wanted to stand up specifically on immigration and what they consider bullying or hate speech from him. how much of that seemed to be the focus of people that you saw in your own reporting versus some of what looked like a minority or a handful of people who were also, beyond those messages, getting violent or scuffling with officers. >> so, ari, we spent a lot of time with groups before they actually come out to the protest. we didn't do that today, but we did that earlier this week. and as you say, a lot of the leaders, they were very insistent and very determined to make it peaceful. some even wore special vests, and they want that message to wring through, to come out that it's about build the wall, it's about deporting the immigrants, and that's what they're really not happy about.
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but what you see on the ground is that when all of these folks who are really excited or they have this common enemy in donald trump, they get really angry. and it turns into "f donald trump, f donald trump" and that is the message that comes across. once the leaders and the more organized groups leave, which is usually before the rally ends, then you get those who start to just go after police. what does this have to do with donald trump at this point? they're just going after police. there are no supporters left. and that's what the message becomes a lot of the time. >> nbc's jacob rascon on the scene. we want to turn to senior reporter for politico in new york. ozzy, i want to play some of donald trump, because there is an interaction between the environment that he sets, the protesters' reaction, and then
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how he vibes on that, if you will, and he's got a real way with it. let me let donald trump into the conversation as he talks about the groups he can still win over. take a listen. >> we're going to take care of the hispanics, we're going to get jobs, we're going to take care of the african-americans who are really suffering in this country. and hillary clinton can't do a damn thing for them, and she never will. and guess what? she doesn't want to, okay? she couldn't care less. >> that's his appeal. he is in california. he knows about the protests but he's speaking about minorities in a way that i'm not sure even he believes it. >> it's interesting you mentioned the climate. what he's done before, he's invited violence among his supporters towards protesters. and now you're seeing it sort of playing out. once he got called out for it, he's tried to in some way moderate that tone. but it's very clear that the
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tone that he sets from the podium is being echoed to what you're seeing in the streets. people now are used to politics as theater, politics as sport. when you have a guy at the top of the ticket sort of saying, knock that guy out, and he's tried to walk it back since, you get these supporters that think it's okay to have debates like this. we saw it during the debates. he's on stage hurling insults, they're not really arguing about policy, and people think this is how you pick a leader. >> there is a leadership aspect to that, certainly, in the course of the conversation. jim, walk us through from the security perspective what it means for officers to try and keep the peace in an environment like this when they know it is political, when they know the cameras are there. it's no secret the press goes and will cover more of these things because we're watching. by the way, that can be good if the cameras help keep everyone accountable and can expose what's happening, but obviously it can also create an echo
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effect because people sometimes do use, as you know, disruption as theater in and of itself. walk us through the policing part of that. >> well, you know, you got to give san diego police an a-plus for effort here. what they did tonight so far, a thousand demonstrators, maybe just three arrests. we haven't heard of any great injuries. the thin blue line were out in force planning leadership, preparation all played in there, ari, as you described. you know, with the reporters, and you're just discussing it, you got the two groups, the trump and the anti-trump forces here. it's like a european soccer match. they're against each other. we've reduced the political discourse to this, and we're going to see this all through the summer, so across the united states, police chiefs and commanders and sheriffs, they've got to get ready for this kind of civil disobedience. we've also got to put it in perspective. a thousand protesters, mostly they're out there with pinatas of donald trump, signs that say,
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whatever, trump is a chump or sgchlt that something. that's not a rriot, that's not hurting anybody. when it becomes hurling things at police, it can get worse in the gaslamp district later with the drinking. >> we're showing some of the signs, even aggressive signs, that's political speech. there is a wide berth of protection for that in this country, even if you want to say things that some people feel are too much, you certainly have that right as long as you don't go over the line of conductor n inciting violence. in your view, three arrests here. does that mean the police declined to do more arrests or there were really only three offenses? >> these were people they could arrest. there are probably a lot of people they saw they could arrest but they had to break the line. they're trying to keep the integrity of their line, and they will move out to pick off some particularly violent people
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or people they really feel they have to arrest and then move back to their line. because they don't want to get dispersed too much, they try to move as a unit. there's a civil disobedience and training for this is very specialized so they know how to do that. so, no, i think three arrests were good. it shows they weren't overreacting, it shows they probably arrested some people that committed some violence. i think their actions in total. if you watched the sdpd, that's a 36-riot baton you notice that the officer is holding with two hands. it's designed to push a crowd back, it's used with two hands. you train on that with very small steps moving forward. it's a very planned and trained event, and they have the right kbim equipment, they have the flexed cuffs, the helmets, they're not overusing gas. it's a good night tonight for san diego pd and also for the
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protesters on either side where there is not a lot of injuries or bad things have happened so far. but i do think -- >> we're looking at these scenes and some of them are obviously visual wael arrely arresting, a vast majority of what went on, according to police themselves, was lawful and peaceful. ozzy, in closing, you look at this and you say on the one hand, you talk about trump's responsibility. his aides say politically, whether you like it or not, they were telling nbc news, this helps us. this shows that our opponents look bad. is that true? >> it plays into the stereotype or the caricature of trump as a tough guy who can tame an unruly crowd. the world is dangerous and look at this tough guy standing up. >> the strong man. >> the strong man argument. it helps also in the sense that clinton's people had wanted to talk about trump's past remarks, building the wall, and any time you have a process story where we're talking about protesters,
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who threw what, you're taking away attention and time to convince undecided voters if there's any left -- >> right, and if that is the norm for months on end, you get into that question whether it completely drowns everything else out. jim and oz zyozzy, stay with me. we'll have more on this. bernie sanders versus trump. will they or won't they? it depends on who you ask. also we'll check on san diego where trump says they brought out all these protesters and we'll monitor that this evening. it's 7:00 p.m. on the west coast, and we will be right back. you do all this research
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i think it would get very high ratings. it should be in a big arena somewhere and we could have a lot of fun with it. we've actually had a couple calls from the networks already. >> would you get on a debate stage with bernie sanders? >> i would love to. yeah, i would love to. >> he would love to. that was donald trump just yesterday saying he was willing to debate bernie sanders, but as i say, that was yesterday. today, of course, it's a different story. >> you know what? you don't want -- if you're in first place, you don't really want to debate a guy who is in second place. it could end up i'll be with bernie. but they don't want bernie. look, he's a socialist. give me a break. have we come that far? have we come that far? i don't think so. >> it's a lot of free association. now, here is how bernie sanders responded to the news that trump says now he won't do the debate. >> well, i heard that he was going to debate, and then i heard he was not going to debate
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me, then i heard he was going to debate me and now you're telling me he's not going to debate me. well, i hope that he changes his mind again. mr. trump is known to change his mind many times in a day. and i would -- you know, trump is a bully, he's a big, tough guy. well, mr. trump, what are you afraid of? >> nbc's chris jansing is joining us from santa barbara, california where bernie sanders will hold a rally tomorrow. chris, what can you tell us? >> reporter: well, i think you could hear it in his voice, bernie sanders trying to bait donald trump a little bit. they put out a couple statements after that in addition to those comments you heard. truth be told, the sanders campaign never really believed that donald trump would do this. would they love to do it? absolutely. has it helped them to be part of this new cycle? absolutely. i can tell you from being at an event earlier today, there was a tremendous amount of excitement from bernie supporters who said they don't feel donald trump has really been taken on on the issues that they care about,
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things like income inequality, the $15 minimum wage. having said that, i think there is a sense that this is all settled now. it did give bernie sanders an opportunity to remind people that hillary clinton, who they thought was going to -- they thought they were going to debate here in california, decided she wasn't going to do that. so in the meantime, he is running around this state. he is doing so many events that by the time june 7 comes around, his folks think he will have talked in front of as many as 250,000 people. he's doing whatever he can to get free media. he gave an interview to the young turks earlier today when he was asked, interestingly enough, whether or not he thought hillary clinton could lose to donald trump, and he said he did think so. in fact, that he was scared to death that would happen. and why do you think he said, i'm running around the state like i am? so this is a campaign that is full speed ahead for the next 10
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days or so, hoping that they can go into this convention with some momentum. i also talked to folks who are at these rallies, and these are dyed in the wool bernie sanders supporters. could you vote for hillary clinton if she is, indeed, the nominee? here's what they told me. >> there is no way i want donald trump in there, but i'm a bernie or bust. i'm not for hillary, either. >> so if she's the nominee, you won't vote for her? >> no, i won't. i'm bernie or bust. >> i'm absolutely never hillary. i'm bernie or bust. >> reporter: if hillary is the nominee, will you vote for her? >> i have to vote for her, but i want bernie in there. he's my primary choice. but yes, we have to keep pushing hillary to the left if possible. >> reporter: that really is what you hear from a lot of his supporters, that they absolutely are true believers, they want him to keep going. they think something is going to happen, maybe, that will allow him to win the nomination at the convention.
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short of that it's been clear for a long time, ari, as you know, what they want as the absolute minimum, and that is to continue to push hillary clinton to the left. i mentioned the $15 minimum wage. there are a series of issues they are going to take to the platform committee. now they have five members of the platform committee and they're going to push for those hard. ari? >> that's right, and that will be another really interesting place to watch the rubber meet the road on policy as well. chris jansing, thank you for your reporting. coming up, we'll have another live report in san diego where trump spoke to that large crowd, up to 25,000 people earlier, and some of the protesters tonight are still refusing to leave the area. when you lease the 2016 es 350 for $329 a month for 36 months. see your lexus dealer. we do it for the ones who rise before it shines. the ones who labor for what they love. ♪
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quite like the human foot. introducing the 255 horsepower lexus is 300 all-wheel-drive. with twenty-five percent more base horsepower. once driven, there's no going back. all right, get him out of here, get him out. somebody said, by the way, why are you going to san diego? why are you going to california? you already won the primaries. you don't have to go. and i said, very simply because i said i was going to go, i have to be here, right? and i really like when they put
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up latinos for trump, latinos. we're going to do great with the latinos because i'm bringing back jobs. >> donald trump in san diego earlier today there, bringing it. now, as we've been reporting, that event was at times overshadowed by those anti-trump protests outside. back with us from san diego, jacob rascon. what are you seeing now, jacob? >> reporter: so now what we're seeing is officers on their bikes ready to move this way toward the last couple dozen protesters. we have moved around the corner from where we were before. there they are. and i'll switch around now and show you that on the other side we have swat teams ready to move forward as well. they gave their final warning more than 30 minutes ago, maybe even 45 minutes ago. they've been detaining people, they've been shooting their pepper spray balls, and this is the last group of people, though
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they just keep running every time the police come. one of my colleagues commented to me just moments ago, when is the last time you heard anything about donald trump? and it's true that in the last more than an hour, at least, there have been no chants about trump, it's all "f the police, f the police." that's not uncommon, we've seen that, that after the rally is done when the supporters leave, it becomes about the protesters versus police. it's not uncommon. we're seeing it again here in san diego. ari? >> you make a fair point. this came up a lot when people were covering the occupy protest. there was this policy-object yen -- policy-oriented wall street thing going on, and this other thing going on. you're saying in your own reporting you're not seeing anything about the rally anymore, so from what you can tell, who is left and what are their ends here, what are their
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goals? >> i believe we may be losing jacob rascon, and that may be because of battery power. we have henry walker hoere from yahoo news where he is a political correspondent and hunter joining us on the phone. hunter, i'll talk to you first. whether or not there is a big ground outside, before he comes on, over the loud speakers in a very ominous sort of braggadocio way, there will be basically a big, loud announcement that says, "we'll kick anyone out we have to" and then there's cheers and that's long before this thing starts. that's been part of his political messaging. >> yeah, and they actually adopted that announcement after there was some violence at the rallies, and it urges people not to attack the protesters. and, you know, i think it's
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really weird to see an american election fighting in the streets becoming normal. but, you know, we have trump supporters showing up at these events, there's things like this lion's guard on twitter that's dedicated to identifying protesters who may show up and outing them to security and other trump supporters. we've had bikers and other groups saying they're going to swarm the conventions. so you see both sides gearing up for these trump rallies and getting ready to fight. >> zeke by phone here joining us. it's an obvious political observation that donald trump has benefited greatly from all the press coverage, and we can say that even as we cover him. yet at the same time, it has been pointed out in the "new york times" today an article about all of his troubles in pinpointing hillary's problems in a week where there was actually an obama administration report from the state department, critical to her tenure on the e-mails issue. a lot of republicans are saying that didn't get much attention because the trump show with all
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of its out-of-control excitement is getting attention. is that something anti-trump protesters actually fear? >> that's right, ari. it's really interesting to talk to republicans today just on that point. donald trump has been very committed, certainly, even this week with the firing of rick wiley and the reshuffling of that campaign, that trump is doubling down on the trump show. this is going to be trump's campaign. he's not really going to professionalize it. to that point he doesn't really want to or have the capacity to give in to other issues, whether it be looking for opposition research on hillary clinton beyond "that's a terrible, bad thing." he likes to keep the folks' attention, good or bad, on himself. that's what he has experience with for more than three decades. >> yeah, and to that point, he has one main communications aide, the times reporting they've struggled to hire a communications director and
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other strategists. it's partly because he doesn't want to give up the wareins at all. he did touch on hillary clinton, it just didn't get a lot of traction. here is donald trump talking about that here. >> thank goodness for e-mails, i love e-mails! they never really go away. hillary, did you hear that? they never go away, hillary! you know, hillary is missing -- hillary is missing 30,000 e-mails. i have people that will retrieve those e-mails. i don't think they want to find those e-mails. because, frankly, what hillary has done is criminal, folks. >> that's his opinion or prediction. so far there's been no finding or criminal wrongdoing, although there is an fbi investigation. in terms of the style, how much is this impulse doesn't allow for much oxygen?
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you said backstage you'll call his office and he'll pick up and talk to you because he seems to want to talk to reporters. >> i called him last week to talk about a story i had done on his mob ties. we found another mobster of the many, and he just picked up the phone right away. i don't think that was a traditional, strategic move. >> you're a digital print reporter type. hillary clinton hasn't done an interview with the "washington post" in 13 months. i would say that's the other extreme of not doing interviews with tough questions. he does the opposite, he does everything. >> the clinton campaign is in a crouch. the clintons have been through it with the media, they don't really want to engage. also i'm hearing that they're really, really happy to let donald trump be in the spotlight. because he has these million mini news cycles with controversies over what he's done in the past, what he said. yesterday we saw that whole thing where he referred to elizabeth warren as pokecahonta and ended up angering native
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american activists. today he called san diego a third country, and i've heard optimists tweet that out a little bit. i suspect we'll see that more. he's happy to dominate the media cycle. >> we are now here in a bit of a general election mode. do people get sick of donald trump, or do they feel he is suddenly becoming slowly normalized? >> yeah, just to quibble a little bit with hunter's point there, it would be that there is certainly a lot of hope that donald trump is sort of exposing himself on television, things like the pocahontas line, some of the other controversial statements he's made, some of the stuff he's said in the past being dredged up, that that will change things, that will change the public's perception. that hasn't happened yet, and the frustration from the clinton campaign yesterday when donald trump was holding that press conference in north dakota, they
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were very frustrated that their candidate was giving a speech and the cable network and reporters were covering an empty podium and the other candidate couldn't break through. that's something they're still struggling on how to deal with. it's true they can't get attention for their candidate and that donald trump would spoil himself in the general election with his comments, but they're making a bet right now, and they're certain to find a way to get their candidate press attention because donald trump is so good at dominating news cycles. >> hunter, stick around, i want to talk more with you. thank you for being here. president clinton has a new strategy to win the states. you'll never believe what that includes, straight ahead. r my diabetic nerve pain any longer.
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welcome back. president obama making history becoming the first sitting president to visit hiroshima where the united states first dropped anatomic bomb 71 years ago during world war ii. the president marked the moment with a call to put an end to nuclear weapons around the world. >> the radical and necessary notion that we are part of a single human family, that is the story that we all must tell. that is why we come to hiroshima. so that we might think of people we love. the first smile from our children in the morning, the
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gentle touch from a spouse over the kitchen table. the comforting embrace of a parent. we can think of those things and know that those same precious moments took place here 71 years ago. those who died, they are like us. ordinary people understand this, i think. they do not want more war. they would rather that the wonders of science be focused on improving life and not
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eliminating it. when the choice is made by nations, when the choices made by leaders reflect this simple wisdom, then the lesson of hiroshima is done. the world was forever changed here. but today the children of this city will go through their day in peace. what a precious thing that is. it is worth protecting. and then extending to every child. that is the future we can choose. a future in which hiroshima and
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hadn't voted republican in decades. >> i want to focus on 15 or so states. because we have to win. and i want my energy to be put in the states where it could go either way. and we're going to play heavy, as an example, in california. now, no other republican wouldn't even go to dinner in california, they wouldn't do it. we're going to focus on new york, which everybody -- if, for instance, ted cruz or any of the guys, good guys, but they're more traditional. if they won, if they got the nomination, they wouldn't spend 10 cents in new york, they wouldn't go there, and they wouldn't do well there. >> trump did hold two different rallies in one of those states today. california, those events grew crowds and protesters. joining us all the way from california, nbc's katy tur in san diego. what jumps out at this is the blue states, and he cites two
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states, and new york, where it is so high in democrats that he would have to turn over democrats or do a massive turnover program. have you seen evidence of which way that would work? >> reporter: i'm not even entirely sure he meant 15 new states or if he meant 15 states total. we tried to get some clarification from the campaign today and they did not respond to our request. but he did say he would focus on places like california, like new york, places that have been traditionally democratic. he was in california this week and he has a little bit of a few numbers behind him when it comes to being able to turn out more voters. republican registration is up, i think, about 60% here, a little bit more than 60%, but democratic registration is up more than 200%. and the majority of those are latinos, so he definitely still
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has a tall hill to climb when he's going to try to be getting over in states like california. he has had quite a bit of higher voter turnout across the primaries. almost every state that he's won has seen higher voter turnout, but there was a political report, a political investigation analysis that showed that many of those voters were already general election republican voters, they were just new primary voters. so it's unclear if donald trump will have any more voters come november, but the candidate and the campaign is staking their claim on these new states, states like california, states like new york, maybe a little bit more with states like pennsylvania where they have a better chance. states they believe they will have a chance in that no other republican has had a chance in in the recent elections. >> katy tur reporting from a blue state that may not be blue for long. thank you for watching.
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ahead, why bernie sanders says he's so anxious to fight in that state of california. he says he has a fear of donald trump. i'm mary ellen, and i quit smoking with chantix. i always came back to smoking. i was absolutely frustrated, absolutely. i did not think chantix would work as well as it did. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. chantix reduced my urge to smoke. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. some had seizures while taking chantix. if you have any of these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of mental health problems, which could get worse or of seizures. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic
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looking at the democratic race tonight, bernie sanders explained exactly why he says hillary clinton has him, quote, scared to death. >> are you worried that hillary clinton is going to lose to donald trump? >> am i worried? am i worried? why do you think i'm going crazy? why do you think i'm running all
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over the state of california doing three rallies a day? we're going to have a letter going out to superdelegates today or tomorrow, as soon as i'm finished with it. am i worried? i'm scared to death. but i see what trump is. trump is a phony, trump is a m demagogue, trump is willing to say terrible things and lie in order to get the vote and win. i'm not sure hillary clinton can effectively compete against him. i'm not saying she can't win. it's an excellent chance she can win. the likelihood, if it is trump versus clinton, i would say in all likelihood it is her. >> i think bernie there sounds like any democrat and a lot of analysts, which is, clinton more like toll win, can win, and yet, who knows? >> yeah, we were sort of talking about this before.
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the clinton campaign really needs to find a new strategy to deal with trump. he's dominating the news cycle. we saw her this week try to make this really detailed push on housing. and it got totally swept up in trump revisiting the vince foster conspiracy theory. i think a lot of people in the party are worried, but they're also worried that bernie might cost her. >> when you listen to bernie right now, do you hear anything, in your view, as a political analyst, as a reporter of these things because they have cycles and they have patterns that tells you if he's loses he's not ultimately going to get on board with her in the general election? >> he's going to have to be part of that winning strategy. the people that he's spoken to that have been energized, that have economic anxiety, that feel like there are two sets of rules. they need to be convinced not to just stand in the street and protest donald trump but actually need to show up and
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vote for hillary clinton. he needs to be part of that conversation. it is hard to imagine hillary just sort of taking that for granted, especially when you're seeing so much strife around what the democratic platform is going to be, her having this problem with not only the inspector general's report but the e-mails. bernie sanders is a collective voice about the economy. >> what is the example there for that? is he a howard dean-like figure who may ultimately lose but is seen within the party, and particularly the base, as having tapped something so important that it's transformative? >> i don't really know what's going to happen with bernie. i've tried talking to people in his orbit, and they said he really doesn't have this kind of traditional insight or politician thing where, like, he'd be able to be her running mate, not that she's offering, or join her cabinet. i don't know that he's really going to be a surrogate or be with her on the trail. i think one big worry for the
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clinton campaign is he just dominated them with the youth vote, and they need to figure out how to get that segment of bernie's base maybe without him. >> and ozzy, he has a credibility with a cohort with the party that most democratic politicians in d.c. don't, and he's also in cahoots with debbie wasserman schultz. he's saying let me use my supporters and my network to mess with democratic opponents. >> that's where we have donald trump stepping into this sphere and dominating so effectively. she's also being used to attract people that are engaged by bernie sanders. what he does going forward is unknown. he obviously wants to stick around and have a voice. he obviously after years in the congress has the kind of attention most people would die
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for. >> you mentioned twitter. it's remarkable after many democrats for a long time felt frustrated the party didn't hit hard enough, was asleep at the wheel, wasn't as tough as republicans in the cog of the machine. there are c donald trump tweeted, fantastic job on handling the thugs who tried to disrupt our very peaceful and well attended rally. greatly appreciated, exclamation point, hunter. >> that's so much of what we were discussing before. does hillary clinton decide to engage donald trump on his terms? can she pull the discussion in another direction without making a controversy a minute. i think ozzy made a good point that she does have a good conversation with the bernie
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base, she has shown willingness to spar with trump on twitter and has really gotten his goat sometimes. as of right now, some of the republican mega donors and the money in wall street's sphere hasn't necessarily flocked to donald trump. if we see hillary really embrace warren, but will it give trump a more traditional jeb bush style money arsenal that right now he just doesn't have? >> obviously, can you afford anything else if you're looking at a base election? >> no, these seats with the protesters, they're engaging partisans, people who have already decided. how do you convince someone at this date who is undecided who may not even want to vote, how do you convince that person to come out? i don't know if these protests are going to convince someone, but they're definitely sending up red flags saying you have to be engaged. >> and are you giving them something because it's a whole lot easier to win with something
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than nothing or just negativity. ozzy and hunter, thank you. we appreciate it. i'm ari melber. tonight on "all in" -- >> we have a border problem that is so insane, it is so ridiculous. >> trump draws crowds both for and against him in california. as he touts a bold strategy. >> i actually think we're going to win california. plus i have property here. >> why he now won't debate bernie sanders. but will face clinton. >> we know a lot about donald trump. he roots for himself, not for you. >> then the least-surprising supporter to board the trump train. as a former rival -- >> a con artist. named donald trump. >> is now falling in line. plus the president's historic trip to hiroshima. >> we must have the courage to escape the logic of fear. >> his message on nuclear weapons and yet highlights the

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