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tv   NOW With Alex Wagner  MSNBC  May 31, 2016 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT

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>> good afternoon, i'm chris hayes in new york. donald trump's press conference today was meant to clear up the mounting questions about his donations to veterans and veterans groups. you'll remember in january during his fight with fox news, he canceled on a debate that network was hosting just days before the iowa caucus and instead held a much publicized fund-raiser where he said he raked in $6 million for veterans groups. now four months later he's frustrated with the media for checking up on those claims. >> i raised close to $6 million. it will probably be over that amount when it's all said and done. but as of this moment, it's $5.6 million. i sent people checks of a lot of money and i'm going to give you the names right now, which is what you want. and instead of being, like thank you very much, mr. trump, or, trump did a good job. everyone's saying, who got it, who got it, who got it and you make me look very bad.
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when i raise money for the veterans and it's a massive amount of money, find out how much hillary clinton's given to the veterans, nothing. >> speaking of hillary clinton, she leads trump by just two points in our weekly poll. she'll join me in this hour live. we'll talk about that and some other stuff. as well as donald trump's press conference and the latest news in the ongoing e-mail scandal. let's start with the donald trump campaign. katy tur has been covering it longer than just about anyone in the business and joins me now. katy, that was really quite a -- it was quite an airing of grievances at the press conference today. >> yeah, i don't think we've had a press conference that's been that contentious in quite some time with the donald trump campaign. he was angry from the get-go. felt like -- it seemed like he felt like he was being forced to reveal who he was giving this money to, who he actually raised all this money for, saying that he wanted to keep it secret because he believes that donations are none of anybody's
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business. the reality is, though, as you mentioned earlier on, this was a fund-raiser back in iowa that was heavily publicized and heavily touted by the campaign, and the reason why he didn't show up to the fox news debate that was moderated by megyn kelly back then. they've talked about it a lot on the campaign trail. donald trump has raised $6 million for veterans, they get large cheers for this and the campaign pushed back and was quite angry with reporters when they tried to follow up on that, tried to get an accounting of where exactly that money goes to. it's a very simple question to the campaign, one that was positive. you said you've raised this money for the veterans foundations, who exactly is it going for? seems like one of the easier questions for the campaign to answer, but it was not one that they enjoyed. nbc news has learned that 27 of the 41 charities that he listed today have, at least those have gotten the money. at least 11 of those 27 have
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gotten money in just the past week alone. and donald trump himself confirmed that he gave just over a million dollars to the marine corps law enforcement foundation. that was done recently as well, after a number of reporters pressed him to reveal exactly where he was going to give that money that he pledged. he didn't like it one bit. take a listen to how he answered reporters earlier today. >> i have to tell you, the press is so dishonest and so unfair. i've given a lot of money and raised a lot of money for the vets, and i think when the press portrays it differently, the press is being very dishonest. so i don't like that. i don't like dishonesty. >> is this what it's going to be like covering you if you're president? >> yeah, it is. let me tell you something, yeah, okay, it is going to be like this, david. >> here's the reality. it's about transparency. donald trump has a business background, he doesn't have a record in politics, he doesn't
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have necessarily a record of following up his words and promises with actions and that's what is needed if he's going to be going to the white house. when we've asked him to release his tax returns to find out exactly where he's giving his money and how much money he happens to be paying to the government in taxes, he's refused to do so. so there isn't much transparency when it comes to the donald trump campaign. and it has seen that behind the scenes, he has a lot of "yes" men, and what he wants from the reporters on the campaign trail are "yes" men as well, people who accept what he has to say and go after his opponents instead of going after him, for the same sort of accountability that anybody who's running for major office should expect. chris? >> all right, nbc's katy tur, thank you for that. let me introduce today's panel. susan del percio, kathryn rempel and joining us for the first time, glen thrush, from
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politico, who has a fantastic podcast that i recommend you check out. great to have you. two quick factual stipulations that are important. he said that he didn't want these to be public. he literally went around iowa and new hampshire with publisher's clearing house style novelty checks -- >> schumer style. >> yes, exactly. so just keep that in mind, a, and b, just to be clear about the timeline here, back when he did the event, he said at the podium, he listed all the people who gave money. he said donald trump, another builder from new york, a million dollars. which was, i gave a million dollars to the veterans organizations. it was wasn't until reporters started snooping around and said, we just want to know where you gave it. tell us where you gave it, we just want to confirm, that he then, like a week ago called and gave the money. it's pretty clear, or let me just say, one could not unchairitably come to the
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conclusion he was not going to do that in the absence of reporters calling. >> his own spokesperson claimed the money had been given. that's what's so crazy about this. >> on the record, in a televised interview. >> multiple times, i believe. >> they claimed the money had been given, disbursed already. >> and he said you're not going to find out who it is, he said it's not going to be public. >> now it's time for donald trump to wake up and find out what it's like to run for president or elected office. the press holds you accountable for things. other people will hold you accountable. you don't get to do everything you want on your timetable. people will ask you questions and they will stay on you until you answer them. >> he also reminds me of my uncle who sent me my bar mitzvah check last week. >> 15 months late, i sent a wedding gift. >> and i finally called about it after all these years. he gets non-disclosure agreements from practically everybody he touches. people he's been married to,
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people who have worked for him. i've always wondered why somebody in the democratic party doesn't establish a big money super pac to fight legal battles for people who want to break through non-disclosure agreements have to say. >> but they're all bound up in contracts. >> right. and i think this is an underreported aspect of the campaign. forget about the tax returns, which are a huge deal. we don't know what percentage of his income is being spent on charitable contributions. that's really the litmus. >> i want to be fair here, because there are things that are terrible about the campaign press. okay? i could spend an hour telling you press critiques, sometimes they come from bill clinton, sometimes they come from trump. there are certain things we chase that in the grand scheme of things aren't that important. >> here's the biggest problem, today he had a great story. it's never too late to do the right thing. he was giving away millions of dollars, and he stepped on his own story by attacking the
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press. >> by saying, you didn't say thank you. right? >> to your point? it's intriguing to me, is this what it's going to be like if you're president of the united states and he was like, yeah, this is what i'm going to be like. he hasn't changed. i thought maybe he would mellow with the no pivot. thought he would mellow as the establishment came on board, but as to the non-disclosure agreement, we're going to see the same donald trump. >> it wasn't just the -- i mean, he went after the press a lot and in the kinds of terms that make you wonder about what it would be like as president when he has to deal with the press. but also, he went after the judge in the civil suit at trump university for the third time in three days. he went after the governor of new mexico, who he took this swipe at while he was a rising star in the republican party, latino woman with high favorables. >> because she doesn't support him. >> he went after bill crystal.
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the whole thing was just an opportunity -- this was about veterans. the whole thing of him pursuing -- >> i think he can't help himself. it's like a reflex for him. he calls it punching back. and it's a reflexive punch. if he feels attacked, he gets defensive and he cannot turn down an opportunity to insult someone who he believes is attacking him. >> and wasn't it -- he was talking about john mccain where he said, i don't like people who get captured. this is a man who -- [ all speak at once ] >> going back to the other party, i think it really does matter when you look at what he's doing as far as trying to diffuse other potential situations. attacking the press, trying to discredit the press, trying to discredit this judge, because he knows stories are going to come out. and that's his m.o. i don't think it's going to work, but that's what he tries to do. >> what i've heard from katy and from the trump press, for the first six months or so, the
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phenomenon of trump overwhelmed the journalists. we're starting to see a level of defiance and scrutiny in the trump traveling press and among others that we haven't seen up to this point in time. so he keeps taking the rubber chicken and going after the reporters, abobut the reporterse less prone to cut him some slack. what i would like to see is realtime fact-checking of trump. i think this is the first candidate in our lifetime that we need a kyron at the bottom of the screen with life fact-checking -- >> we pioneered this form. had something called trump-check live. during the time where he was doing speeches in our hour every night. we did this and prepped ahead of time. we have like the pop-up video. and other networks have done similar stuff like that. a, the realtime part of it can be hard, but i agree, that sort of knocking this stuff down becomes its own kind of undertaking. what to me is so key about this story, there's just one singular
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fact at the heart of this. he said he gave a million dollars to veterans groups. and he did not. and that's it. you can draw, you dear viewer, dear citizen, draw whatever conclusion you want about it. that's just the way it shakes out. >> donald trump doesn't get judged like any other politician. he gets judged by the public, that's why his be ins are stistil -- why his numbers are -- >> that is not a law of political physics. one of the things that needs to happen, this is the thing that drives me crazy, when i hear reporters talking about everyone getting desensitized that this guy is a fact-free candidate. that's baloney. he gets tagged with this, he has a core of people, we know where the electorate is. 40% of the voters are going to vote for him anyway. but if you keep hammering him away about the truth that he's saying and the falsehoods that he routinely peddels --
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>> he barrels through. he lies again and again and he gets fact-checked on them and he just repeats them. [ all speak at once ] >> so the question is, is the damage already done? because he's the nominee? so there's not much you can put back into the bottle, because he's the republican nominee. >> he's going to compete in the general election. >> exactly right. >> in april, in the nbc news/"wall street journal" poll in april 12% of voters believed donald trump had the right demeanor to be president. take one part of this, this is someone who has a civil case before a federal judge. okay? now he doesn't like this case, and i understand, people don't like judges they get. he's going after the judge day after day after day. said the guy is mexican. he was born in indiana. just think for a second, that's one thing when you're a private citizen. it's another when you're the nominee for president. it's another thing when you
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think about the president of the united states, if there were judicial decisions he didn't like from a specific judge, going around and essentially rhetorically slamming the judge, these are outside the norms of sort of some basic -- [ all speak at once ] >> he will continue to talk through all of this until the first debate when people start paying attention. regular voters. we love to talk about it, we've been doing it for a year. but the fact is, people will focus on the details. the debates will happen. those fact-checks will matter much more then. but he is going to continue to have his way and barrel through because everyone else is buying into it. >> in terms of the data, he's not teflon. in the sense that he's the least liked candidate in modern history. he's 8 to 10 points more disliked than hillary clinton, who is coming in right now number two, who has had 30 years of coverage of her. it's not like this just all bounces off into the ether.
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>> going back to your point about calling out judges, there's a historical precedent for a candidate calling out judges. his name was george wallace. >> that's right. >> not just warren, frank johnson, who did the desegregati desegregation said he wanted to give him a barbed wire enema. >> and pil has behaved in a way that is in the context of the president of the united states, if it was in another country, we would call it essentially strong man. >> but he got support and trump is playing off the same playbook. >> but his -- maricopa county's electorate is no america's electorate. >> agreed. but the man is the nominee of the republican party using similar language, similar style, similar bullying techniques. i think there's a part of the electorate that likes that. >> absolutely. >> but going back to susan's point, once you get to the debates, we reset a little bit
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and i think american voters will -- >> i just think as a sort of broad abstract point, not particular to this candidate, the combination of someone who is really, really has a lot of petty grievances all the time and is inclined to pursue grudges with the most powerful office in the entire world, that's an intense combination. >> i think in his case a lot of voters see that as a selling point. he is the grievance candidate. he has a grievance oriented populace. >> that goes to the wallace line. i'm speaking for myself, i find that as something to give me pause. >> hillary clinton also had a list of people that she wanted to really hurt after the 2008 campaign and that resurfaced. >> by the way, that story is not really true. >> thank you. >> that was a list -- the main person on that list was adrian
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el y elrod, probably the most liked staffer on the clinton campaign. >> but they have a history are being known for wanting to settle the score. >> but she's not a bully the way trump is. >> of course not. >> if she's going after a federal judge -- there's a difference in terms of rewarding friends and punishing enemies, which every politician in the world does to a certain extent and grade on a scale. then there's how you marshall public opinion to do the same. still to come, speaking of hillary clinton, my one-on-one interview with hillary clinton. but first is california a must-win? she's spending more time this week there ahead of next week's primary. more on that after this. but with added touches you can't get everywhere else, like claim free rewards... or safe driving bonus checks. even a claim satisfaction guaranteeeeeeeeeee!
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>> bernie sanders about to take the stage for a rally in santa cruz, california, one of three events he's holding in california today. both democratic candidates are pushing to win that state ahead of the primary on june 7th. hillary clinton picked up a key endorsement when california governor jerry brown decided to back clinton. i'll talk to hillary clinton in just a few minutes. steve patterson is with the sanders campaign and kristen welker is covering from brooklyn. feels like sanders is getting quite a good reception by and large across the state of california thus far. >> reporter: you know, we heard that endorsement from jerry brown this morning for hillary clinton. and sanders responded the way we expected to, kind of lumping him in with the establishment. putting him in the same category
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as hillary clinton, as the dnc, as the democratic party. his supporters, i gotta tell you, they eat this stuff up. they love when he is defiant. and he has been really since he's been here in the state of california. another part of that is the strategy here, which seems to be really just to blanket the state with bernie sanders' rallies. he plans to go to 200,000 with the amount of people that he wants to get eyes on at a sanders rally. so far they're over the 100,000 threshold. they want to push that into the primary here in california. we've been talking to some of those people. a lot of them boisterous, loud, and very young. a lot of them so young that this is the first time voting. so they don't really have a party affiliation, anything to latch onto. they're not here to see the party beat donald trump. they're here for bernie sanders. you know, we asked them. sanders doesn't really have the math as far as the super delegates, the pledged delegates, the unpledged
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delegates, even really the popular vote and what's their thought about why they're still here? they said, again, it's the revolution, it's the message, it's someone with a new idea that we want to see carried through. so here in the state of california, it's bernier bust. chr -- bernie or bust. >> sanders held a huge rally in oakland. i saw reports of tens of thousands there. then goes with danny glover to the oracle arena, walks in at half-time, warriors down at that point, they have a huge third-quarter comeback, i saw warriors fans making jokes about having bernie sanders attend every game of the nba finals. >> reporter: he got a huge response for that. talk about comparing his campaign which many people now see as a hail mary to the warriors and what they did last night, people love that. they eat it up and bernie knows how to work it. >> steve, thank you. kristen welker is in brooklyn. you could write a whole book
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about the jerry brown endorsement today because of the history between jerry brown and bill clinton back in '92 when jerry brown played the role of bernie sanders to bill clinton as that played out over the primary. how big a deal do you think that was for that campaign today? >> reporter: right, well, there were contentious moments between jerry brown and bill clinton back during the '92 race, during the primary. we know how that ended up. but a very different story today. this is a significant endorsement for a couple of reasons. jerry brown, very popular with democrats. a 77% approval rating. 56% statewide, and he sent his endorsement letter to democrats and also to independents. that's critical. independents can vote in the primary and they're going to be the big question mark next tuesday in terms of who pulls out a win in that state. let me read you a little bit of what jerry brown had to say. he said, the stakes couldn't be
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higher. our country faces an existential threat from climate change and the spread of nuclear weapons. a new cold war is on the horizon. this is no time for democrats to keep fighting each other. the general election has already begun. hillary clinton with her long experience, especially as secretary of state, has a firm grasp of the issues and will be prepared to lead our country on day one. the significant part of that, this is no time for democrats to be fighting each other. increasingly you hear this message from democrats, particularly from secretary clinton's surrogates. they're saying it's time to unify and take on donald trump. secretary clinton has canceled events in new jersey to head out to california to try to win that state, where polls are showing it's going to be a tight race. senator sanders has been defiant, he's not getting out of the race, fighting for every vote in california. there is, of course, a reality to this math, which is that secretary clinton has almost put this race out of reach.
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she could clinch with a win in new jersey, which would be before all of the votes in california are tallied, but california's significant because it has so many delegates. if she wins that state, she would really take away senator sanders' last argument for staying in the race. and also it would allow her to head into the convention on very solid ground. so all of the focus here on clinching california. chris? >> thank you very much. let's bring this to our panel. i just love the sub text history that jerry brown raised. the moment in the debate where bill clinton's finger-wagging, you are not fit to stand at the same podium as my wife. >> are you talking to me? >> you seem like a perfectly nice guy. [ laughter ] it's sort of an amazing moment. jerry brown was the sanders of that race. >> jerry brown is a different guy now. >> yes, he is. >> i was at an event with him probably six months ago and it was probably the most
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entertaining tutorial on politics. we talked about his sky-high approval rating, and he said, i just had the good fortune to come in right after arnold and the economy tanked. so i rode it up, and he said, i'm going to be getting out just as the recession is going to hit. so he has this unbelievable vision at this point from having his brains bashed in a million times and had two essential political lives to really understand that luck and timing has a lot to do with everything. >> at a certain level when bernie sanders says jerry brown is part of the establishment, that's not wrong. >> it's not wrong, but the jerry brown-bill clinton primary was the first time i voted, so i remember that clearly. and he was the bernie sanders of the day -- >> but what makes him establishment and not bernie sanders who's been in politics -- >> that's the point that i was making. and what i think is interesting for me, from my perspective in
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the democratic party, jerry brown really reshaped the california democratic party. it's a model party for the country and i think what's interesting is that you can have the mix of quote/unquote establishment, i wouldn't call it that from the bernie sanders vocabulary, but also a bernie sanders-type of candidate to actually be involved in democratic politics, work within the party to reshape the party -- >> but to his point, we talked about independents being able to vote in the primary on next tuesday. the demographics of the state -- voting demographics have changed so much since arnold schwarzenegger even, in 2000, the last time he was elected, whereas you have democrats ticking up a couple points to the high 40s. you have republicans going from the mid to low 40s down to the mid 30ss and the independent number going to 34%. so that's a huge number. it's also interesting to see who they will go to, because a lot of those independents were
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former republicans most likely. >> and she won that state in 2008. it's a huge latino and african american population which favors her. so i think it looks good for her in california. >> historically we're going to look back at this and everybody hates when i say this, but this race effectively ended on march 15th. >> mathematically? >> math nematicallymathematical. what i want to know and no one has articulated. what is the end game here, what do they want? we're not just talking about convention? does he want to be vice president? i did an interview with tad devine in which he hinted at that. i just want to know what these guys want. >> we'll find out. sanders has received twice the amount of support from young women primary voters than clinton has. what can she do to flip those numbers? that plus my interview with hillary clinton coming up. there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber.
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with one week until the
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california primary, the race there is tightening. both hillary clinton and bernie sanders are battling over every single vote, including young women. nbc news exit polls show that sanders has won a sizeable percentage of women aged 17 to 29, leading clinton, 68-31%. we caught up with young democratic voters in san francisco to hear about which way they voted. >> i think it goes back to what you just said, actually. because i feel like she's been in the public eye so long, that she's put on a lot of masks to protect herself. i think that if young women want to connect with her, she's going to have to open back up. >> how does she do that? she would say that she's not a natural campaigner. >> she's not. >> she's not her husband. she's not bernie sanders. >> go ahead. >> i actually think she's a good politician. when i think of vintage hillary, as you mentioned, there's a lot of good feelings that i have. i feel like she stood up for a
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lot of things, you know, back in the '90s that some i didn't agree with and some i did. but i think that up to this point, she has compromised so much and has back pedalled and just kind of -- you don't really know where she stands anymore. >> i think she's having a hard time about figuring out what the world wants and how to give it, and i frankly don't fault her for it. she's been thrown through the mud for 25 years. i understand that she has a hard shell. and i think it's gonna be hard for her to unravel that. >> show me your vision for veterans affairs, about mass incarceration, and not in sound bites and vague terms, platitudes. >> the only word that comes to mind when i think of hillary is plastic. it's not natural, organic, rich with soil and vibrancy. her beijing speech, you know, women's rights are human rights. she has a legacy of this. she doesn't want to defund
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planned parenthood, and she wants to fund them even more. reproductive rights is something that's been very important to her and she has a legacy on that. >> so why do so many women your age, in their mid 20s, support bernie sanders, do you think? >> i think that hillary has to do a better job of connecting her struggle as a woman to the things that she's had to do. so i think she hasn't done a very good job at that, explaining how her role in politics and public service has been impacted by her gender. >> back now to the panel. these have been fascinating. chris and others have been doing these informal focus groups. what do you think? >> two points. one ever tof the participants w getting on hillary for being a slogan ear and not articulating her policy proposals. i think this person's perception of the candidates is flipped. bernie sanders is the slogan ear, you know, break up the
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banks, et cetera. hillary clinton, if anything, has gotten maybe too in the weeds for the tastes of this electorate. the second point i would make is that this authenticity problem that hillary clinton has had for ages and is the case amongst all ages of voters, i think is especially problematic for young people, for the youths, in the age of instagram and hash tag, i woke up like this, young people are particularly sensitive to image management in a way that all voters are, but it's particularly true of young voters. >> what i found interesting in that interview, "vintage hillary", that's not a good thing. and hillary clinton's legacy. again, thinking of her in the past, they don't think of her as someone moving forward. frankly that's been part of her issue the last couple of months. she hasn't been able to get behind any type of message, and the campaign is struggling to kind of define itself without going too far to the left, trying to still be mainstream.
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>> i do think they've been able to articulate a message. what's interesting -- >> what is it? >> i think a lot of what is being described as maybe skepticism among the folks in the focus group is actually an argument for why they might support her if they don't now. the fact that she's been around for a long time and been able to articulate her positions on issues, she has been an activist, but because of her public view, she's had to create this shell, but with that, she's been able to -- she's at the point that she is now, about to be the nominee of the democratic party. >> i think hillary clinton has a very clear message and always had a very clear message is that is competence. nobody gives a damn about that message. so the issue is not that she doesn't have a message. it's that she doesn't have a popular message. >> she doesn't have a brand. >> here's the message i would say, that they have been communicating and i think this gets to that. it's really, the message is, steady as she goes.
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that's the message, steady as she goes. look, things are headed in the right direction, they have been through this entire administration, we need someone at the helm who is steady and competent and is not going to invite, i don't know, disaster. >> but it's hard to get people excited about that message. >> i agree. >> she's got four million more votes than anybody else, so there are people excited about it. >> no, there are people supporting her. you don't see it in a movement like you saw bernie sanders starting a movement, donald trump starting a movement. for the good or bad, they've started movements. >> i want to make this clear. there are people that are super enthused about hillary clinton. here's what i think is true. it may not be the same as they are enthused about bernie sanders or donald trump, but do i think, when we say, steady as she goes isn't a message or people don't like that, what we're also seeing is it's uninteresting for us. there are people that do like that message. >> i think it's very much
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against the tide of the electorate right now which is blow everything up, have a political revolution -- [ all speak at once ] >> if that is the case, the data point that people who theorize that have to contend with, barack obama has a 53% job approval rating. that is in significant tension with the idea that the elect ofrate's mood right now is to blow everything up. >> that's higher than it was in the past. >> the highest since 2009 except for re-election. >> they're doing cart wheels in the west wing over that. we have five months to go. we don't know how this election will be defined. this might be the election of the first woman president and regarded, by the time we get to the fall, as being a historical moment. we still have time for that momentum to take place. >> this is the fundamental question, and i don't think it's wrong that the electorate's mood is wanting to blow things up. i just think there's been a
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tendency to focus on the aspects of the electorate that is clearly sending that message, and less on the fact that as he said, she's got four million more votes than anyone. >> that's the point i was making. trump is now the nominee because of the attention on the movement, even if the movement is really scary to me. but there was all this attention on that very specific movement as opposed to, is he actually telling the truth? >> coming up, jacob soboroff will take us into the delegate math for hillary clinton and bernie sanders. stay with us. dad, you can just drop me off right here. oh no, i'll take you up to the front of the school.
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you can't really frankly have a conversation about whether or not bernie sanders can win without asking the question, what are super delegates. bernie sanders answer to that question today would be something i don't want you to focus all that much on. and the reason is, they make up a huge chunk, a 500-delegate portion of the 770 delegate lead that hillary clinton currently holds over bernie sanders. how is this going to play in california and across the country on june 7th? i did a little digging and this is what i found. >> you've been hearing for a while now that things aren't looking good for bernie sanders to win the democratic nomination for president. >> you think he's still got a chance? >> no, i don't. >> so what gives? why on the eve of one of the last presidential nominating contest system the race still going if it's out of reach? >> well, technically it's not. sanders is behind in the total delegate count, but there's still a chance. june 7th, california, montana,
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new mexico, new jersey, and north dakota democrats vote. the biggest prize, california, not only has more delegates on the line than any other state, there's a huge crop of unpledged delegates, known as super delegates, for their super human ability to help a democratic candidate become a democratic nominee with their superpower votes. >> what about if he gets the super delegates? >> i probably don't understand the process well enough, about you my daughter tells me he's probably done. >> do you think he's done? >> i do not understand it. >> oh, different daughter? >> yeah. >> bernie sanders is going up against hillary clinton on the democratic side. you think he's still got a chance? >> hopefully not. >> hopefully not? so he's a trump guy. last question. do you know what a super delegate is? >> yeah, it's on the democratic side, governors and they can vote whatever way they want. it's a weird process. >> it is weird. that was totally the correct answer. >> yeah, it makes no sense. >> a super delegate is a delegate to gets to vote for
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whoever they want, regardless of the popular vote. there are 714 of them this year, mostly currently and former party leaders, including bernie sanders and bill clinton, and their votes count way more than yours or mine. here's why. they make up 15% of the 4,765 total delegates. a candidate needs half of those to win. you get there using pledged delegates determined by the popular vote, and these super delegates who really can tip the scales if it's close. so if super delegates decide to come over to sanders' side and chances are that isn't going to happen because of clinton's pledged delegate lead and he scores a victory in california and other states, he still has a chance. >> why does this color not just have a popular vote and be done with it? >> so you don't like super delegates? >> i don't like super delegates and i don't like these primaries. the only thing you see on television is trump and sanders and clinton, and it's just terrible. >> partially my fault?
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>> yeah. >> that gentleman doesn't like super delegates, but right now, hillary clinton does, and if you factor that in, all she needs is 71 to cross over the finish line to clinch the democratic nomination. she could do that in new jersey early in the evening, that's why the bernie sanders campaign is saying, do not look at the super delegates, focus on the pledged delegates, because we can go all the way to the convention perhaps in that case, because the super delegates vote at the convention in july. >> jacob, thank you very much. i'll be back with more in just a moment. i've made plans for later in case this date doesn't go well. likewise! but, funny story. on top of that? my mom is my best friend. uh oh. yeah. oop! there's the rescue text from my roommate saying she needs me. wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi double cash card does. it lets you earn double cash back: the citi double cash card.
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all right, so that explainer from jacob on the state of the race on the democratic side,
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sanders campaign in a somewhat awkward position of trying to explain that the majority of pledged delegates does not give someone in a technical sense the nomination, which is technically true, but it's a tough one to pull off. >> right, it's basically saying this undemocratic system that you have said is rigged against you by the democratic party hacks is what you need in order to beat hillary clinton. so it's the paradox of attempting to try to co-opt a system that you've done nothing but trash. >> and he is a super delegate. >> bernie sanders himself? >> yes, i'm wondering in the past did he not vote for anybody, is he voting for himself in this election? >> he probably is. >> he carried vermont by 80 points. >> but he's astute at democratic politics and super delegates. if i remember 2008, they flipped from hillary to barack obama. >> right. >> and that was a major turning
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point in the campaign. so they do have the ability to change -- >> but they were sort of working to ratify the results of the pledged delegates. the key here is, they exist in this sort of abstract sense as a check on raw democracy of the primary electorate. but in a functional sense, they don't overturn popular votes. >> but at the end of the day, this is a tool that bernie sanders is using to keep people supporting him, to keep enthusiasm for his campaign, to keep it going for the convention, to keep poking hillary clinton, whether it's who's going to be on the rules committee, or what have you come july. he needs to really start figuring out what he wants because he can string along people with this argument for a while, but come july, he needs to say, all right, folks, we need to get behind this. >> right. and the big question to me is, what happens after the 14th? we just saw a poll that had her up by 13 points in the stanford
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poll in california, real clear politics has her about up eight. who knows if he can outperform that. it's possible that you could have a day that he wins california and she clinches the nomination. >> which mathematically won't make a difference. if she loses california, it won't make a difference mathematically, but symbolically, it will matter because we'll be talking about it on tv, but also if you want to turn the bernie supporters to her, it hurts the argument for that. because then they can say the popular will of the people is that bernie has been gathering steam, why should we toss our support to hillary? >> he has leverage by the money he's raised, the votes in the states that he's gotten. he's got that. but as this goes on, his leverage decreases by the day, particularly if elizabeth warren starts playing on this field. >> or the president of the
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united states. either of those would be huge. i think the date to keep in mind is the 14th. the 14th is the actual last contest, which is the district of columbia's primary. after that, there's nothing left. that's the final day that anyone will be casting a vote in a democratic primary contest. that to me is the date where it's going to become clear within, i think, 24 hours, 48 hours of that, if all this talk about taking the convention is essentially a way of maintaining enthusiasm throughout that date and then they say no, or they're serious about it. because -- >> what are they going to do during that time? >> great point. because there's a certain kind of fuel that is flowing into the engine of a campaign when you have contests. when you don't have contests, it's hard to keep the fuel flowing. >> that's the key. because bernie is going to have to pivot in his language and not go after the process as much, not go after her as much, and they're going to have to find a way to bring all of his supporters to her, leading into the convention and beyond that.
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>> doesn't seem like that's a priority for him at this point. >> certainly not right now. >> it's an emotional process. i watched this in 2008, it took her a while to reckon with the fact -- remember, she had a head fake in new york, i forgot which primary she won, where we had expected her, we were arrayed here, expecting her to quit and it took her another week to quit. she's got to come to his realization, bernie does, that all the success he's had, doesn't really amount to the nomination. what's going on right now, you have a lot of clinton who are afraid of pushing him over the edge. >> you cannot -- particularly from the candidate and from directly her sort of inner circle, press people will tweet negative things sometimes. >> the night of the new york, i had a blind quote which i thought was not that big a deal and the sanders campaign raised a million bucks off that blind campaign. so there's a real sensitivity to her pushing him out of the race. >> we don't do that. we don't do that.
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he has a right to run. >> all right, so a slight change of plans. we were running a countdown clock to talk to hillary clinton, which as you see, has not happened, she's been running late. so that does it for this hour, i'm chris hayes. i'll be back in three hours with "all in" at 8:00 p.m., where we'll show you that interview with hillary clinton. first, the libertarians running mates gary johnson and bill weld are up next. "mtp daily" starts next. >> if it's tuesday, just how never trump are you? meet the ticket of ex-republican governors who think they are the answer. tonight the libertarian ticket joins for their first joint interview. johnson and weld. this is shis "mtp daily" and it starts right now.

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