tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC June 22, 2016 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT
really appreciate you all joining us. thank you. chris hayes will now continue the live coverage of this historic night in the house of representatives. good evening from new york. i'm chris hois at this hour the unpress tented in the in the house of representatives is continuing to unfold. your watching a live feed of the house which we're bringing you. that is not live. a feed from the periscope camera that is recording the democrats sitting in the house now going on their 12th hour after democrats spent 11 hours occupying the house to call for a vote on two different gun safety measures conducting a kind of civil disobedience sit in that shut down one of the two legislative chambers of the united states government led by john lewis who knows a thing or
two about sit ins. it was a remarkable and unprecedented scene just an hour ago. so after this has been going on for all day and everyone's wondering what the house speaker is going to do about it, house speaker paul ryan reconvened the house as democrats continue their occupation to hold the vote on an unrelated measure. he wanted to gavel into order the house to vote to roll back obama administration protections designed to prevent financial advisors from acting against the interests of their clients and as ryan tried to conduct this bit of house business, democrats chanted no bill, no break, demanding the house not go into a planned week long recess until the households a gun safety vote. listen. >> the house will be in order. the chair wishes to make an announcement regarding the decorum in the house chamber. the chair appreciates that members will differ on matters
of policy and will seek to express those differences. but the chair would hope that the business of the house could be conducted in a fashion that respects possessively on the dignity and the decorum of this institution to which we all belong. for the purposes of the gentleman from kentucky recognition. >> no bill, no break. no bill, no break. no bill, no break. no bill, no break. no bill, no break. no bill, no break. no bill, no break. >> pursuant to the order of the house the unfinished business is further consideration of the veto of the bill 88. the court will record the title of the joint resolution.
>> house joint resolution 88 -- >> no bill, no break. no bill, no break. no bill, no break. >> the question is will the house reconsideration pass the resolution the objectives of the president notwithstanding the gentleman from minnesota mr. cline is recognized for one hour. >> okay. what you saw there to be clear about this, that does not happen. that does not happen in the house of representatives. you are not allowed to chant or wave signs or use your phone or shout. this is not regular order. this is something that it's been a while since we saw anything remotely like this when the republicans tried to get a vote on drilling regulation but this was a completely different category. we have a live image as the democrats continue to go to the microphone, this improvised set up without the official house
cameras since the house is not in session, c-span taking this smartphone feed as democrats talk and as ryan voted to move on the measure democrats continued to chant and hold signs demanding that those two votes on gun safety as votes began to be recorded chants of shame ecoed through the chamber and democrats began to sing we shall overcome. ♪ ♪ >> keep in mind how surreal this
situation is john lewis is leading democrats in a sit in to get a vote as house speaker paul ryan gavels in a vote to overturn a financial piece of regulation and as that's happening inside, outside the capitol a growing crowd of protesters have gathered to support the democratic effort, some shouting shame, we'll remember november and we're not afraid of the nra. >> look, we're not going to leave this up because we've nn energized by you. the longest person has been here almost ten hours and we are prepared to stay all night. [ applause ] >> the representative holding a pillow saying they're prepared to stay all night. a short time ago the house went
back into official recess which is why you're not seeing the shot from the cameras from c-span, it's a shot never never seen this before, i guarantee you and the reason is it's against the rules to have your smartphone out and streaming on the house floor. in these instance the rules have been broken as they're staging this civil disobedience in the house continuing to give speeches, vowing to remain as long as it takes. joining me now from capitol hill. luke, what is the latest now that the house is adjourned once again? >> reporter: i just spoke with a gop leadership and the plan is that the house rules committee right now as they're working on a motion to go to conference regarding zika legislation, totally separate from guns, then
they're going to introduce that zika legislation and put it on the docket for the business of the house and do a motion to adjourn around midnight. that's a customary tactic that the house does. it means the house is officially closed. usually that's voice voted. in this case we expect the democrats to call for a role call vote around midnight and then we can imagine what will happen on the house floor after that goes down, probably similar to what we saw which was some very spirited back and forth, house democratic members yelling shame at speaker ryan, yelling at him over his lack of desire to move forward on gun control amendments or putting them through the process. a few interesting things i picked up the representative from the district of pulse nightclub got into a heated
altercation on the house dplofl with the representative from texas. you know radical islam killed those people which representative brown took offense to all things considered and the pulse nightclub being in her district. i had an opportunity to talk to john lewis who is outside and played some of that tape with that crowd who come together to support the house democrats, he told me i feel like i relived my entire life tonight. this is clearly a moment in john lewis's civil rights career and congressional career which is quite long. a historical night but when you think about the career john lewis has had everything he's accomplished extraordinary. >> thank you. that moment between the two congre
congress members, that exchange which in some ways is a micro kochl of the political debate in the wake of that particular massacre, we get that sound for you, a lot of people are reporting on that, joining me on the phone from the house floor. we don't do interviews from the house floor normally, in fact tonight this will be my second and my second ever joining me on democratic congressman of massachusetts. okay. what now? what do you do know? >> you say that -- you ask that as if there's a plan. we're going do what we have to do. know what will happen with the vote. there are some people who want to adjourn and do this all over again tomorrow. there's some people who want to stay on the floor and we'll that decision as we go along. this is not a top down type of thing. each decision along the way has been made in a fluid way to be
imprecise. >> with respect having covered occupy wall street i've heard that before and it's not -- i think part of what's striking about this is you are a member of the united states congress and there are rules and procedures, some of those always strike me as bizarre, poorly used, manipulated by the majority in all kinds of ways and they are what they are. explain to me, explain to american voters, why this circumstance necessitated the breaking of those procedures and rules? >> very simple. most people are used to rules in a local town hall and in most cases every member can get a floor vote on a bill by making the motion. in the house of representatives in order to get an amendment allowed no matter how germane you may think it is the rules
committee has to allow that amendment to be offered. the rules committee is completely controlled by the leadership of the house which is the republican majority and they allow no amendments or allow only limited amendments. this this particular case there are two bills that we want to get to the floor of the house. they have the support of 90% of american people and all we're asking for is a vote. people can and should vote their conscious. many think we will have a hard time winning that vote but at least let us vote. let the american people decide. that's all we're asking to do. the rules of the house do not allow us to do that. we've tried every means possible within the rules. this is a last desperate attempt. >> the rules would allow you to vote if you had 288 signature. what do you say if the americans
supported this, if this was fronts of mind you should be able to get those 218 signatures and bring it to the floor of the house. >> not every member of congress is as responsive to their constituents as other members. why don't they have the courage or the conviction and vote on the floor of the house? simply put it there. they don't have to say they support until they vote and they don't have to vote red or green and the american people make that decision. >> i hope we can keep this going. i'm not sure -- >> we're going to be keeping this going for a while. >> i'm talking selfishly about interviewing members on the floor of the house which is convenient for me but something tells me we're not going to get that after this. thank you for taking time tonight. >> thank you. joining me now is democratic congresswoman donna edwards who represents maryland. they is standing in the front of
the statute area hall. what is the name you're holding up. >> this is noah posner. he was 6 years old and he died at sandy hook elementary school. we're standing here for all the victims in baltimore and prince george's county where i live it's time for us to do something and we're tired of these moments of silence that don't lead to action. >> what do you say to someone who says in the specific case of sandy hook and noah pozner and children that were slaughtered in that elementary school that the legislation you're proposing today would not have stopped that? >> the point is that we have to start someplace. we have to start someplace to reduce gun violence and the idea
that we should do nothing because we can't stop every incidents of gun violence is lewd kruludicrous and today we' calling on the house leadership to use the rules and bring two bills to the floor that are low hanging to expand background checks so we get 100% of them and to just say if you're on the terrorist watch list if you can't fly you can't buy a gun. let's start there. i believe we have to start somewhere. i mean in maryland last year more than 300 people lost their lives to gun violence. toddlers and moms and dads and aunts and uncles. >> why respectfully this issue, this bill, at this moment, on this topic, the house has been -- you have been the
minority for some time since 2010, there's been a bunch of issues, there's an immigration bill that passed, what is it about this moment you can sense from you and other members of your caucus i've been talking to you tonight that there's genuine commitment and principal at stake here. explain this to me as i'm watching this why this is happening tonight. >> we're done. we're just done. i mean the fact is that we come after these mass shootings and there have been so many of them over and over again to the house floor. we stand up, we do the moment of silence and we go back to business as usual and i think after orlando we realized that as members we cannot go back to business as usual and so if the speaker is upset that we disrupted the floor, we take our leadership from john lewis who tells us that it's important for us to be disruptive. so we're not going to go back to
the regular business of the house until we can do something to end gun violence. >> all right. i real appreciate you making time tonight. thank you very much. >> thank you. so there in the lower -- that is a live feed we have. it's a little unreliable because it's coming from facebook but it's house democrats who have been in the well of the house demanding votes on gun legislation. the house is officially in recess. you're looking at a smartphone shot however the game plan for tonight is some sort of motion back we think maybe in the next 45 minutes or so. this is not by any stretch done. the democrats have vowed to stay as long as it takes. they've been bringing in sleeping bags, representative clever outside with a pillow. speaker ryan has a limited
amount of things he can bring to the floor. he's going to try to figure out some way to shut this down without having to bring in the sergeant of arms to clear the place which would not look good. so we do not know at this moment what will happen next. so we will continue to cover this live. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. ♪
one of them was the texas representative not afraid to throw some partisan bonds here and there and he came down and had things to yell at his colleagues about the source of the violence we saw at the pulse nightclub. >> radical islam killed these people. >> no fly, guns. no fly, no guns. no fly, no guns. >> why do you want to let terrorists buy a gun. >> we're going to talk about that when we come back. real is making new friends. amazing is getting this close. real is an animal rescue.
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joiningmy is our chief legal correspondent. it's been a long time since i've seen something like that. >> he is a hothead. he was going around saying terrorisms were coming to the u.s. to give birth. it makes sense it was him but i think they're frustrated because this is is a breakdown of a norm in congress. i don't think this is the last of these that we're going to see from either party. i think when the republicans are in the minority they'll pick up this tactic. >> the other speaker had drama. the new speaker is struggling with the opposition party.
you do see fighting on the house floor. you see times where tempers flare. i have never seen anything like this. it is civil disobedience which we think of against the government. so it is a huge statement about how to respond to one of the most urgent crisis which is the gun problem and the threat of terrorism. the only thing i'll add is on the other hand any speaker paul ryan included would be expected to want to enforce the rules rather than give in to protests on the floor. this is an amazing night. >> i'm glad you bring that up because now is house minority. you have been in leadership for a long time. you've been in the more enviable position of scheduling votes and figuring out what the house should vote on. can you tell me that you or nancy pelosi would have any tolerance for this kind of thing coming from the republicans in the minority when you were running that chamber?
>> i think the majority always wants to have the floor run smoothly and have issues that it wants considered considered. very frankly if we were in the majority right now we would have brought this bill to the floor and if the majority of the republicans or the overwhelming number of republicans were against it so be it. this is not a vote by the democrats. we are standing up for 85% of americans who believe the two bills we want to bring to the floor and not just in light of the tragedy in orlando but the 33,000 other deaths that have occurred as a result of guns in the past year or on an average year. that's what we're standing up for and we think those bills ought to be brought to the floor not because democrats are asking they be brought to the floor but because 90% of the american people believe if somebody is on the terrorist no fly list they
should not be able to buy a gun and put them at risk. they believe if somebody wabnts to buy a game as this man did in orlando a couple of days before he murdered 49 people that they ought to pass a background check and it ought to be a universal background check and is there should be no loopholes. we think that the american people believe those are common sense matters. let me say our friends in the nra say guns don't kill people, people kill people. well, if we accept that premise, then we don't want to have people who are going to kill people get guns to do so with. >> respectfully by the last tally there's about 650,000 americans across the various watch lists which i believe are covered in the current
legislation but the proposal is in the senate is a more stringent list. do you believe all those people on the list want to kill people? >> of course. if they're checked out and the fbi can clear them or frankly they have some process of getting their names off the watch list but very frankly i think the american public want to make sure that people who are getting particularly guns that can kill a lot of people in a short period of time are sold only to those people that can be trusted not to commit violent acts. >> house thank you. >> thank you. >> house democrats continue on the floor. they have a switchboard number they've put up there, no bill, no break, with the #tag they are tweeting and they have the names of gun violence victims, and they are demanding a vote and saying they won't go anywhere,
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sit ins and stand ins. the change in america and by standing here tonight, standing with us, by being here you've been with us through the truth, you must never, ever give up or give in. >> congressman john lewis from georgia addressing the crowd of supporters who have asemabled on the step of the capitol would are there to support the democratic members of the house who are continuing into the 13th hour to hold the floor. the cameras are shut off. the house is in recess. they have been speaking in turns all day sit og the floor saying they're going to be go as long as as they need to and we're headed towards another vote we think on the house floor where paul ryan is going to try to come up with a procedural
mechanism to make it harder for the democrats to continue this. we are now joined by two democratic congress members. this is close to home for you. describe to me your thinking on the problem of gun violence and the legislative measures your colleagues are calling for here. >> these are simple common sense reforms we are advocating for. it's as simple as that. i was walking off the floor december 2nd talking about these measures, procedural issue to start a debate on this. it's very simple. the background checks and the terror gap, those are things that deserve the attention of the house of representatives. we deserve an opportunity to be heard on this issue. it's been up for debate multiple times and we have not received
that debate. so this is personal for me because i walked off that house floor and got the news about san bernardino december 2nd. >> congresswoman you are someone who i think has a very strong profile on civil liberties. do we have her there. >> i'm here. >> i wanted to make sure. you're someone that has a strong profile on civil liberties. the aclu is saying members should vote against the legislation, the so called no fly no buy, they say it bolsters a constitutional list that creates this set of suspension that curtails americans rights to buy a gun. >> i think if there's a problem with the no fly list we should look at that but in the meantime these people cannot board a plane but they can go into any
gun store and buy an automatic weapon, the kind of guns that are used every day in the city of chicago. we lost 13 people over last weekend, father's day weekend, 46 people were shot. it's like a war zone in some neighborhoods in chicago and it is armed by the kinds of guns that people should not be able to buy because of background checks or because they can't fly on a plane. >> would you support -- i know there are two specific pieces of legislation they'll be calling for here. would you support something like a reinstatement of the so called weapons ban that was in effect under the clinton administration. >> i would support that. what we are looking for are bills that 90% of americans nod their head and say this is what we should do. these are the kinds of measures that finally have changed the
wedge issue matter. it used to be guns were a wedge issue for democrats. i believe now it's a wedge issue for republicans because so many people are asking for these common sense measures, the kinds of things i hear about at the grocery store or gym or on my way to board an airplane to washington yesterday. >> you think your colleagues in that delegation from the state of illinois, i know there are some of them in districts that president obama won twice -- >> i have no doubt if the bills were called that they would pass and that's exactly why speaker ryan is not interested in having them called. he doesn't want to put his members in what he thinks may be a bad position. he wants them all to get money from the nra, not to have a bad rating from the nra. these are members that would have to vote for it and these
bills would be passing the house. >> all right. thank you both. i appreciate you taking time. i have the senior editor to msnbc and our chief legal correspondent who will be picking up coverage in a bit. here is the thing. no one wants the sentence voted to allow terrorists to buy guns. that's an impossible sentence. i think the congresswoman is correct about the fear of the politics on that that paul ryan has members that he wants to protect on this vote. >> i think you're right this is a situation where there is clear politics that lead to bad policy outcomes. if the government knew who were terrorists we could arrest them. >> that's not true. that's the problem. >> the thing is that we have
this whole issue around gun control and who are the good people and bad people. you can't figure out who is a good or bad person so either yier going to have a general rule that people are allowed to have guns and then you will have lots of bad people who get them or you'll have a general rule that people can't get guns and a lot of people won't be allowed to have them. a choice people don't want to admit it. >> you say you can't arrest the bad people, what they're talking about is what side you err on and it's the side we erred on we haven't proven the person was a terrorist but they got on a plane and sliced the pilot's throat. the answer we've seen according to the authorities is it's a lot easier to use an ar 15 to kill people than the scenario i
described which is why authorities say this is a good idea. we may be seeing the politics of gun control shifting. we may be seeing that. if the congresswoman is right is that this isn't just about the rules which is the breaking point, but rather about how bullish one side feels about trying to force a vote on the issue. if that's shifting that's a big change and what happens when you get near change groups like the nra and the republicans who do want to stop this want to stop it outright. >> the argument here and this is the argument the democrats have been giving me because i have been expressing my skeptic yifrm about the merits because we have there is a broader issue in "the new york times" today we have this idea of preventing people who may be prone to carrying
this out some sort of act before they do it and the difficulty of doing that. we've created this thing called the no fly list. so the danger is that you reaffirm this as the sort of space between innocent and guilty. it's the space in which you're a suspect, not in some sort of strictly legal sense but there's a suspect suspension that hangs over you. 650,000 people on the list. move that aside and the political argument is this is a crowbar that prize open the resistance. we can win here and once we win on this issue things open up for other pieces of legislation. >> maybe. i don't know whether or not that's right. some of the way the democrats are talking about guns now reminds me of the way democrats talked about gay marriage 15 years ago and we are just for
civil unions. that was not true. i think some people thought they were speaking honestly about their believes when they said that but i think there is a desire for much broader gun control. >> i think democrats have been honest. when you listen to the congresswoman she said we think we can win. >> she was talking about a support on assault weapons ban. that didn't have a lot sto do with the murders in the united states. the democrats don't think gun rights are a real right that deserve protection. >> i think the majority of democrats in congress think the decision was wrong. thank you both for your time. >> thank you. again, at this hour we're in the 13th hour of this unprecedented civsit in and we'
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>> this has been a historic sit in and it's been amazing to know that over 100,000 people today have called congress demanding that they disarm hate. we've never seen anything like this before but i think the will of the people are speaking out, that he are crying out about the inability of congress to protect their communities and save lives from the senseless gun violence and i think the will of the people will not be broken. we have a long way to go but basically the people have spoken and the ledge slatgislators tha sitting there are absolutely doing the will of the people. >> mark, you've worked on this issue for a while and i know my -- i have family members who have worked on this issue and i've watched it's trajectory, the million march in '90s, a complete abandonment by the
democrats on anything having to do with guns for a long period of time including the first term of the obama administration. where are we now. >> i came to washington in 1994 to work on issues like this and i've never seen anything like what happened today, people sitting on the floor of the house. i think the reason is the public is in a different place. it's like chinese water torture. there's no silver bullet that's going to change this issue. what's going to change it is we have mass shooting after mass shooting and people demand action and when the house of representatives which paespends long time trying to rename post offices and turns off the cameras and won't have a vote on gun measures it's a time for change. >> there is a gap between the
nra and it's constituency do you think that gap is narrowing. >> well, i think there's more intensity on the side of the people that basically want to have safer gun laws. i think they're the ones that are putting the pressure on the nra gun lobby. the lobby has to be feeling the heat because we've seen successes across the country with instituting background legislation across states and against domestic abusers and felons. i think that even in the state of florida not being able to expand stand your ground and keeping guns off campus i think the heat is on and i think it's going to get worse for them. >> she mentioned two legislative dweets for the nra in the florida state house and when i was in orlando talking to a few state representatives who
pointed out that it was unprecedented, they lost on stand your ground and campus carry and that seems like things might be changing there. >> the nra basically for a generation had the states to themselves. they were lobbying and passing bad bills and there was nobody to oppose them but after star starting with the tu son mass shooting, americans for responsible solutions, a colleague of these members of congress who was almost assassinated sprang up and they're make ag big difference. when i started on this work i took a page from the marriage equality movement which said congress is basically an immovable object. if they can't pass bills they're not going to deal with gun control. until you go to the states and
make progress there that's what we're doing and these groups are making a huge impact. that's where it begins. >> thank you both for your time tonight. the congressman from brooklyn holding the floor. >> we know the history of the civil rights movement taught us that in the face of trying to make change there were people who stood in the way. george wallace stood in the way. jim clark stood in the way. but guess what, the good people prevail prevailed. so even if the house republicans want to stand in the way, goodwill always prevail. so the question is --
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shut off. we're expecting more action tonight because after a brief vote it was gavelled back to recess we expect speaker ryan to come back and try to do more house business and we'll see how that transpires. the democrats are pledging to be there as long as it takes to get the speaker to gavel a vote on two safety gun measures. i'm joined now by two congresswom congresswomen. the senator from your state of illinois who you are going to face in the fall voted with the democrats on both these measures when it was up for a vote in the house, he voted for the so-called no fly no buy provision. what does that say to you. >> that he wants to keep his job. whenever he needs to vote like a democrat he does but really at the end of the day he's going to vote for mitch mcconnell to be the leader in the senate and he's also going to vote for extreme nooecminees to the supr
court, the supreme court is our critical last line of measure against some of these challenges to the ability for cities and states to enact sensible gun control legislation. >> you said being yourself someone who has served in the armed forces and handled what people call assault weapons that you understand what they were designed for and don't have a place in civilian hands. >> they do not. if anybody has seen what these assault rifles will do to a human body it's not something that you need to defend your home, it's not something you need to go out and hunt with. it is purely designed to kill people and kill people quickly and simply is not something that i want in my neighborhood. it is not something that should be in our cities, on our streets. i come from a family of outdo
outdoorsmen. i love to shoot on the range but you don't need an assault rifle to hunt deer. all we're asking for. we're not looking at assault weapons tonight. all we're asking for is to keep people on the no fly list from being able to buy guns and expanded checks so there's universal background checks for anyone would wants to buy guns. >> you've served in the congress for quite a bit of time. have you ever experienced something on either side whether you're on the majority or minority like what transpired tonight? >> this is historic. it's long overdue. we need to get these weapons of war off the streets of america. we should pass these two very moderate measures. so finally we have decided to say enough is enough. we're sitting in and we're going to make sure the speaker hears
us loud and clear. 90% of the public wants us to pass these measures and we're going to demand he brings them to the floor. the nra has a strangle hold on the members of congress. >> let's say paul ryan comes back and gavels in legislation on zika funding which is one thing that has been prepd by the rules committee and he gavels to recess and leaves, what next? >> what next? we understand what protest is about. we understand where there's a will there's a way. we have shut this house down today. we will continue to sit in and we will continue to raise our voices. thank god for social media. thank goodness you're covering this giving the fact they're shutting down the media so we're going to continue to speak on behalf of the american people so we can stop these horrible horrible horrible acts of gun
violence and so that people can live their lives free of violence and free of gun violence. >> congresswoman, you're attempting to move from one legislative chamber to the other. you're running for senate. the senate republicans are doing something i think is essentially unprecedented they're refusing a hearing for the president's nominee to fill a supreme court vacsy. democratsy what you are doing is unprecedented. this is not the normal order of things. what do you say to republican colleagues who say you're doing the same thing. >> what i'm saying is all we're asking for a vote. we're asking them to do the regular order and allow us to have a vote. i don't understand what the republicans are so afraid of. have the vote. if you don't want expanded background checks, if you think people should buy guns without background checks then vote no
but they don't want the vote. they're hiding from the american public. they're shutting down the cameras and not allow the american people to see what is going on. we're asking for regular order. we're asking them to do their jobs, bring the bills up for a vote. if you don't want to -- if you don't want to keep terrorists from being able to buy weapons on the no fly list then vote no. but you think that sensible legislation includes allowing people -- not allowing people on the no fly list to buy guns. if you think sensible ledge -- >> do you agree with the congresswoman that this would pass if you got a vote on it? >> i'm sorry, what did you say? >> would both of these bills pass if they came up with for a vote right now. >> yes. in addition to these first two
bills that are moderate and they're the first steps that must be taken we need to begin do look at how we ban all assault weapons and these weapons of mass destruction on the street. there are many measures that we need to take up but we need to take up these two measures no fly and no buy and requiring background checks. how simple can you get in terms of saving lives. these are easy measures for the republicans to vote for. you talk about bipartisanship, this is how you do this. >> i appreciate you both taking the time tonight. that is it. the live coverage of the unfolding sit in continues next. thank you at home for staying with us for this special edition of the rachel maddow show. you