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tv   The Rachel Maddow Show  MSNBC  June 24, 2016 1:00am-2:01am PDT

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great leadership. i will do everything i can as prime minister to study the ships over the coming weeks and months. i do not think it will be right for me to then the new leadership required. >> as the european markets and u.s. futures are getting hammered, the leader of the u.k. independence party heading has a message for british prime minister david cameron. >> i hope this victory brings down this vile project and leads us to a europe of sovereign nation states trading together, being friends together, cooperating together and get rid of the flag, the anthem, brussels and all that has gone wrong.
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let june 23rd go down in our history as our independence day! >> he as a message for the future of the european union. >> i'm thrilled that we've done this. i believe the other big effect of this election is not what happened to britain but the rest of europe, the rest of the eu, other countries vefr talked about leaving the eu now they are. an opinion poll of the netherlands said they want to leave. we maybe close to nnexit and similarly in a majority of there, in favor of leaving. i'm told the same may apply to swedingen, austria and italy too. the eu is failing. the eu is dying. i hope we knocked the first brick out of the wall. i hope this is the first step toward a euro of sovereign
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nation states, neighbors, friends but without flags, anthems or useless unelected presidents. >> one of the other leaders of the leave movement called for calm during this news. >> i think it is incumbent on all of us to be very calm remember that our responsibilities to the future of the united kingdom and work together to start a process, because this is simply the beginning of the process of initiating leaving the european union. in the long run, i think we will find that both europe and the united kingdom will emerge stronger as a result of this. >> as we have said, markets across europe and asia plummeted in early trading in response to the brexit news. now we have news that angela merkel will make remarks later
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this morning. boris johnson is expected to speak shortly. he is very eager for the leave campaign to be a success. welcome, bill, i heard you described its a seismic shift. >> it is. good morning. the police car going past. i'm just outside of downing street where david cameron just announced his intention to resign as prime minister. it's an earthquake not just for him but for britain. i would say for the european union and it will cause shock waves globally financially and politically. you will not only see the british stock market and other markets tumble, british currency already plueted but an affec on wall street and may be a medium term effect on american's retirement savings as a result of this. this is huge. this is the first country to
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leave the european union since its foundation. britain is not just any old country, it's a really, really important member of that union. until now it has been 58-42 broadly and just about every region except london and the country of scotland, just about everywhere, with a few exceptions voted to leave. this was a shock. nobody was expecting it. not most journalists, not financial power houses and most business leaders have campaigned for britain to stay, but the british people spoke and they spoke with a very loud voice. >> they did, indeed. it is still a 52-48. if you look at the numbers overall, this is a very divided country, albeit by less than a million vote but the total vote
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count leave. it is not ideally split down the middle but close. how do you expect it to parlay in the days ahead where you have a lot of people that want to stay and yet they are going? >> yeah, you can analyze the numbers but 100 meter sprint for the gold medal at the olympics a naught-naught second can win you the gold. no one was expecting 52 to 48% to leave the european union. i'm afraid the decision -- as david cameron and others said all along. this is revocable. there's no going back.
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britain will spend two years, maybe more negotiating how it untangled itself from almost a half century of trade deal and legal deals with the european union even comes down to 15 million or 65 million new passports because british people will not be able to have a european union passport. there's a lot to work out. this is one reason david cameron said i need to resign because i should not be in charge of negotiating with the european union when people decided to leave. it was a huge gamble by him. a gamble of his political future, a gamble on britain's future when you think that really what it started out as his attempt to kill off euro skepticism within his own party, to scare off the rebels in his party that kept going on and on
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about how bad europe was. he tried to finish them off by throwing it open to the british people. that gamble failed speblg tack larry. >> one final question, technically speaking, this has to go through parliament. u.k. parliament has to approve this. is there a time frame in which this will be done? many things have to be repeated from the '72 european communities act? >> it is an interesting point you bring up. legally this referendum, in a sense, has no forth. it is parliament that decides what happens to britain. it would be almost inconceivable for 650 british lawmakers to defy what the people of britain have just clearly said. point number one, beexpect it to be ratified in parliament.
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the timetable in fact after this vote the timetable is largely unknown. it may take two years, it might take five. frankly nobody knows. david cameron hasn't said when he will, you know, trigger the clause in the union rule book that says britain will leave and we're still members of the european union this morning but we signal our intention to leave. the time frame isn't known. it is completely new, unprecedented territory. that's what the markets, for example, hate while they want certainty and what they have this morning is huge uncertainty. >> thank you very much. here in the u.s. dow futures are down. joining me is the editor for "the daily beast." welcome to you. your initial thoughts when you
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heard they are taking off? >> my initial thought is the centrifugal forces unleashed here are tremendous. in europe there are calls for referendums in france, in the netherlands, in other countries, as well. it's a tremendous benefit to the extreme right wing. one called it a try um for freedom, the leader of the far right national party. in the netherlands the leader of the far right party. what is lost in the debate is how much fear is driving this, the migrant crisis was driving this vote, this idea that terrorism could spread from a continent to england. all of that factored in to an emotional debate about the referendum. it's not just dollars and cents story. although the crashing markets are the focus of world
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attention. >> absolutely. as we continue our conversation, we are keeping our eyes above the skies of turn bury, scotland. we expect him to make a statement. whether he will address this or the situation with his properties in scotland, we're not entirely sure. we will bring that to everyone, as well. christopher, it can essentially be boiled down to three arenas, economics, immigration and identity. are those the three arenas for which people were passionate and got their thought processes going an then made their decisions? >> that and resentment of the condescending heavy bureaucratic position always taken by brussels. the idea you have this unelected leader in brussels. nobody knows his name, nobody voted for him. you have this overlay of
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european bureaucracy that the british resented and even cameron used to talk about as been onerous and problematic. the british already had their foot out the door. they are not part of the eurozone. they don't have the euro as currency. they didn't have, in fact, real open borders the way they are on the continent. they were half in and half out of europe. now they are trying to persuade the world they can renegotiate everything and they have access to european markets like before. i don't think that is true. i think we are running in to a situation where all of the brits that retired here in france and spain who could do so because they are europeans and easily i don't think they will find it easy anymore. those europeans who were studying and working in britain, to a great extent supporting the british economy they will find it difficult, as well. i think we are heading in to, as bill was saying unchartered territory. >> as you and i have spoken so
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many times before in our broadcast, we talk about the security of the brits there. there have been certainly many attempts and some tragic lip successful ones. does this affect britain's ability to keep itself safe? was there a communal effort with the eu in terms of security it might be a stronger place as we all see donald trump landing there in scotland. we will keep an eye on that as we continue our conversation with christopher dickey? >> look, the coordination was never as good as it should have been. there was always coordination between british security, french and european security but gaps in it as well. on the other hand, the borders to britain were not open. the checks that were imposed even on people taking the eurostar were sometimes surprisingly tough. i don't think it will change the security environment much in
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britain. on the other hand, i think the thing we have to look at -- going back to the question of identity, this is england voting to pull out of the european union, very much england. northern ireland and scotland voted to stay. we already have sinn fein saying we want to stay in europe, we should unite with the republic of ireland and the leader of the scottish national party is saying scotland should have a new referendum and we should join europe. it is centrifugal forces in the united kingdom that may not be united much longer. >> i find it curious, the fact that scotland heldal referendum 18 months ago and it failed. it was a close vote but why do you think scotland will pursue independence in all likelihood opposed to staying with great britain when you said they argued to stay within the european union as a whole? >> well, i think they feel --
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the scottish have always felt, sometimes rightly so, neglected by england. they feel the economy is dominated by england. everything is english. people use english and british interchangeably, not the scots they have a strong sense of national identity and the european union has been a framework that allowed people to have group like the scots to have a strong sense of national identity within this overall framework of the union. that's going to be much harder as the u.k. falls out an i think the scots will try very hard to join the european union and not pull out. i think that will be a serious problem going forward. >> as we talk about scotland, we are looking at donald trump. he's arrived in scotland to much fanfare, you see probably on the front of those red hats as part of his slogan his campaign theme make america great again. in all likelihood folks have
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wearing those hats that he has had during the campaign. we don't know the nature of the comments he will be making but he will give a conference here. we will have it live. he owns property there and there's been some controversy about his property in aberdeen specifically and we will see if he addresses that a, as well. christopher dickey, thank you very much. we will keep you on retainer and not far away from us. in the meantime, as we say thank you to christopher, also letting you know michael johnson -- boris johnson, rather, the former mayor of london we expect him to make some comments, making his way too the podium. he was a vocal supporter of britain leaving the european union and he's been met with success. when he takes the podium we will take you there as well. we'll be right back. ♪ if you have allergy congestion, muddling through your morning is nothing new.
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i'm thrilled that we've done this. i believe the other big impact of this action is not what's happened in britain but the rest of europe. the rest of the eu, other parties haven't talked about leaving the eu and now they are. the netherlands an opinion poll said now they want to leave. we maybe close to nexit. and similarly in denmark. a majority there are in favor of leaving. we could be close to dexit and the same may apply to sweden, austria and italy too. the eu is failing, dying, i hope we knocked the first brick out of the wall. i hope it is the first step toward a euro of sovereign nation states, trading together, neighbors together, friends without flags, useless unelected
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presidents. we are keeping an eye on the imminent speech. we will take you there as soon as he take the podium. joining me from london, matt bradley. let's talk about the ripple effect in terms of the economy. what are we seeing? >> you are starting to see politicians like nigel farage trying to shore up positions in a new political order. markets are following suit. here in london the markets have just been open an hour. i want to share the shocking statistics, the massive ripple effect that will wash up on to the american borders once markets open in new york. the british pound already plunged to a 31-year low overnight. that is trading at $1.37 to the pound. the british stock market plunged
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7.7%, already in just an hour of trading. britain's five largest banks, their stocks have fallen by an average of 21%. we are just talking about here in britain and the european union. we haven't even seen implications in the u.s. yet. >> with regard to the united states, our dow futures has been report down as much as 433 points and even further. the turmoil we will feel here in the united states as related to the eu, as related to the british pound, is there conventional wisdom on how long that is expected to last? >> all of this is so fluid we really don't know. the thing is this process of negotiating a brexit or an exit from the european is expected to take two years but those championing said it doesn't have to be so speedy. we can negotiate for several
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years. we could see a slow rollout over the next several years and massive instability that could purr assist for quite a long time. we don't know what this is going to look like going forward. the u.s. chairman of the fed janet yellen already said it could cause massive instable for u.s. markets and a rise in the u.s. dollar that could hurt u.s. exports. >> matt bradley, nbc london. senior fellow at the new america foundation, treasury official with a couple of administrations. you have been a busy lady. what do you expect to see happen when the stock market opens in a few hours? >> definitely down in the morning, no question about that. it looks like the s&p is down significantly. it will probably start to come back a little during the day as things calm. the head of the central bank in england, their equivalent of janet yellen was focused on
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saying we have the tools necessary to back up this economy and make sure we have orderly markets. he was focused on liquidity, making sure that markets understand that players both in the u.k. and the global economy understand they are not going to let this be a contagion episode. that is important to know. he mentioned $250 billion of liquidity they are willing to put in the market if necessary. i think as he is clearly having conversations with janet yellen and leaders around the globe trying to maintain panic in the first couple of days is important. it is a weekend and we will have two days for everybody to panic. hopefully as next week unfolds people will calm down a little bit. >> what about the affect on trade? britain has been a great exporter of goods.
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there's going to be tariffs imposed and more expensive. >> they are a bigger importer. for the average britain everything they buy is more expensive both new tariffs in place and because the british pound has fallen so much. everything becomes more expensive. as they negotiate, tariff agriculture is a big deal across the eu. 40% of the budget is spent on agriculture right now and that a lot of that comes to british farmers. they have to negotiate the different pieces over the next two years. the less impact for trades immediately but because of the chop in the market, the currency coming down, because borrowing costs maybe more expensive those things will feel effects immediately. >> i will ask you to stay with me. back over to paris to christopher dickey. you may have heard nigel farrage
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talking about it may be the first brick in the wall, indicating the dutch, swedes, ill at thely may follow suit. talk to me about the french. how will it be interpreted in paris? >> i think people try to ignore the fact that marie is very strong. but the fact is all polls show right now in the first round of the presidential elections, which will be in april or may of next year, she will come out the winner in that first round. there will be a runoff she maybe will lose, probably will lose but she's a powerful politician. she's calling this vote for liberty, a vote for freedom. she's saying there has to be a referendum in france. france in 2005 when there was a referendum on what was then the new european constitution, the french voted it down. the french are not hugely
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enthusiastic about the european experiment. as a result, you have the question about whether a country that is a founding member of the economic community and of the european union, that is part of the group of open borders, part of the euro and one of the largest economies in the world and in the european union, whether it may start to debate seriously pulling out of the european union. so farage is not wrong when he talks about potential for a lot of referendum. >> so the lakelihood of all of this being wrapped up by the time david cameron leaves office as he indicate he will when the conservative party has their meeting he wants to make way for a new prime minister. these three months should be
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relatively volatile trying to figure out where things go. the fact he is staying, does that offer some stability to say all right, everybody, we realize we have had a seismic shift in the european union and we're going to calmly go away methodically exiting with a proper strategy? >> no, i don't think. i think, first of all, he says he's going to stay until the conservative party conference in october. that mean he will be able to stay until then. i think there will be a lot of instability and considering the enormous mistakes he made, starting with the decision to call this referendum, i think confidence in his leadership will be extremely low and a lot of challenges about what britain represents. we have talked about the question of scotland pulling out. that's a hot issue. there are questions like gibraltar which is sovereign british territory, spain is jumping in saying with have
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always wanted gibraltar. maybe we can have shared sovereignty. i don't think that david cameron will have the ability to see the u.k. through this crisis. >> it sounds like we need to buckle up. thank you so much. appreciate that. we are approaching 28 past the hour. a short break here on msnbc, also notable there you see the picture trained on what will be a statement by boris johnson, the former leader of london, but someone very much supported great britain leaving the brexit activity there. we are waiting to hear from donald trump. we expect him to speak in a half hour or so as he has landed and gone in the building in scotland. we are keeping an eye on that as well. a short break and we will be right back.
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at 32 past the hour, we're giving you a picture right now. that is boris johnson in the middle of that picture. he's come out and has been speaking with the crowd. set to take the podium and talk about his win, if you will. he was very much behind the leave and brexit vote. we're told he got in the car and he's taken off. he was supposed to make a statement.
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maybe doing that elsewhere. there's probably a bunch of meetings going on right now. there's certainly a shake up with the european markets which is not unexpected. let's go to london and keir simmons standing by for us. boris johnson has taken off. any idea where he maybe taking off to? >> no, but then this is probably the most important day in his political career. boris johnson is the person that most people who watch british politics closely think of the next person to be likely the prime minister. we heard that the kurpt prime minister saying he will resign in the next three months. whoever that party chooses as their leader and boris johnson is also a member of that party, that person will be prime minister. i suspect there will be a general election because there are questions about the
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leadership of the opposition, the labor party and questions about what will happen here in the parliament behind me. most lawmakers there were in favor of remaining inside the european union. how will they put through a bill that agrees to leave the european union? these are one of the many questions unfolding through the morning, which is why you see the stock market tumble, why you see the british pound drop so heavily, more heavily than it has since the '70s. the governor of the bank of england has come out to try to stabilize the market saying there is 250 billion pounds ready to -- he has 250 billion pounds ready to intervene. i guess that's about $400 billion, but with the pound dropping in value, that will be changing substantially through this morning. so the picture is difficult. there are those who argue it was
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divided despite the win for those who said britain should leave the european union. there are those that britain will be more prosperous outside of the european union and those that argues it will be less prosperous but nobody is saying that it isn't in the short term turmoil. >> in terms of what will go on in that story building behind you in parliament, how long do they have until they have to vote on this? they have to look at the referendum and the vote and they have to repeal all of the relevant legislation. it goes back to 1972 in order to go forward with the brexit. if parliament were not doing that wouldn't it be virtual political suicide for any member that votes against it, given the referendum? >> exactly that's how it would play out. what would happen is parliament wouldn't be able to agree because for various reasons, perhaps moral conscience of
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lawmakers, whatever, that can happen. what happens if parliament isn't able to vote in favor of a bill put forward by the governing party the parliament dissolves and there's a general election. that looks more likely today than it did yesterday. again, the issue is people are talking about how britain renegotiates with europe -- european leaders are calling for calm but you may have a situation where the leadership of the u.k., both the governing party, opposition party and maybe even who's elected as lawmakers is up for debate, up for election. so that whole process may have to happen before we get to any kind of negotiation with europe. there are so many parts of this that have to be worked through. one part that people haven't been talking about so much, which i think is a crucial one
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is what will washington be saying this morning? what will washington be counselling european governments, british government to do? because washington's primary interest is the world economy. that means people's 401(k)s, american families and american jobs and washington will want to see this worked through to get a settlement that is the least damaging to the world's economy and of course the white house has a lot of inpluns. then again, of course, there's a general election coming there, too. so how much influence will the president be able to bring on european leaders to say, guys, get yourselves together, negotiate, get this cleared up. >> keir simmons outside of parliament. we will speak to you again. thank you for that. joining us david smith, washington correspondent for
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"the guardian." put it in perspective, the turmoil here. there are those that would suggest as in the words of nigel farage, when asked about this slump in sterling, he said so what, we are a strong economy. it's going to be fine. this level of turmoil that keir was outlining, expected by the brexit. >>ed expected by some people, yes. we always knew it was going to be unstable time. one of my colleagues at the guardian wrote an article saying with the whole exercise there's a difference between the theoretical possibility of leaving the european union and the harsh reality when it actually hits. you know, you can talk about the possibilities all you like up to last night, but now, when you feel the earthquake, feel the earth moving under your feet it
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is quite different. so we are in uncertainty, chaos and not sure where the safety rails are. but yet in terms of the pound, none of this will come as a huge surprise to many people who forecasted it. >> the reality is it has always been the sterling, the british pound there. they never adopted the euro in great britain. at least along those lines, does this make for an easier transition? >> yes. it's mind boggling. imagine if britain had adopted the euro and now suddenly going to scrap that and reintroduce its own currency. that would be even more complicated. as one of your contributors said, britain has sometimes tried to keep one foot in, one foot out.
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you know, the currency remained independent for euro skeptics it has been a rallying point to retain britain's own currency with the queen still on it. so, that least is simpler as part of the process but also means britain is alone and the pound is vulnerable to these aftershocks. >> david, do you think there's a chance that it will be monday morning quarterbacking, as we say in the states, that hindsight will be 20/20 and they will look back and those that said people in this country have had enough of experts, they are very much behind the leave campaign. will there be signs of regret in the short term financially speaking? >> yes, i think there's a potential for buyer's remorse
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because in this debate people who were pro brexit accused the other side of scare mongering, of exaggerated warnings. now least some of them are already coming true in the first few hours. so, you know, i think there will be some who think was this such a good idea? but, you know, at the same time, i'm sure they will stick to their guns and say, look, this is short term volatility. we kind of knew some of this would happen. we still believe in the long term this is in the u.k.'s best interest. >> this seismic shift we are feeling a few hours old. still more to come. thank you for your insights. a short break here on msnbc. we are keeping an eye on scotland where donald trump at the top of the hour is expected to hold a news conference.
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the contents of which we are not sure what he will say. we look at parliament. it looks like a stable magnificent building but inside of those corridors it could be anything but. we will be right back here on msnbc. why do people put milk on cereal? why does your tummy go "grumbily, grumbily, grumbily"? no more questions for you! ooph, that milk in your cereal was messing with you, wasn't it? try lactaid, it's real milk, without that annoying lactose. good, right? mmm, yeah. lactaid. the milk that doesn't mess with you.
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it's the milk that doesn't mess with you. i think the country requires fresh leadership to take it in this direction. i will do everything i can as prime minister to steady the ship over the coming weeks and months, but i do not think it would be right for me to try to be the captain that steers our country to its next destination. this is not a decision i've taken lightly, but i do believe it's in the national interest to have a period of stability and then the new leadership required. >> prime minister david cameron there earlier this morning. he said bit further on in that news conference he would be leaving as of october. there are those that suggest he may not last that long, it all depends. joining me is senior europe correspondent. in getting ready for the coverage, i read an article in
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which it was outlined this that this is broken in to three areas. i'd like you to aeds each. the economy, immigration then identity of great britain. talk about the most salient points in each of those and why brexit has been so successful? >> the latter few won the day. what was dealt as scare mongering about the economy on the remain side didn't seem to resonate with voters, although we are definitely seeing scary stuff in the market today. the message that got through was immigration. that was the key point in the leave campaign's messaging. take control of your borders, become completely unfettered sovereign nation, decide who can come in to the country and over arching that is the identity of the british people. i think there's a lot of soul searching today, existential questions about who we are and
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what does it mean we have essentially entered in to this complex, messy divorce with our neighbors. >> with regard to immigration, great britain has had a buoyant job market. it stands a near all-time low, 5% unemployment rate. talk about those people that have come in with relative ease thanks to being part of the eu an picked up jobs from all over the eu and how it will change now. >> the unemployment rate in the u.k. is at a decade long low. the eu allows for the free movement of people. any citizen can live and work in any other member state. what that has meant in recent years is a lot of romanians and eastern europeans have come to the u.k., which has a strong economy, relatively speaking and they have come overwhelmingly to work. a lot of them, the vast majority
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of them do have jobs. they have come and sort of helped propel the u.k. economy, most high-level economic research shows they have a positive benefit to the economy, but amongst especially lower skilled, lower-income locals, they feel they are crowded out by these people coming who are willing to do jobs that are perhaps hard and not well paid. that was really a theme that we hit on and seems to have resonated with the outcome. >> a lot of those in the leave camp were trying to lash on to a campaign promise made in 2010 by david cameron. he said i will try to keep immigration to the tens of thousands every year. he was unable too meet that. why not? >> so, yes, the last numbers we had was 330,000 in 2015. far, far off from tens of thousands. it was really a pretty bone
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headed pledge to be honest. the immigration just from the eu is over $100,000. you have to cut that to zero and cut noneu imgrigs as well to meet that target. it was an ill-fated pledge that we're just now getting around to the implication and ramifications of that promise. >> okay. jason thank you very much for phoning in. approaching a 0 past the hour. a short break here on msnbc and be back with more coverage of this dramatic day overseas.
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v. we are continuing our break news coverage on last night's historic eu vote and the break down over there 58-42% vote, only a little more than a million votes separating. the total number 17,410,000 asking to leave and remaining the number there, 16,141,000. so there are a lot of people who wanted to remain and it will not be happening, at least for two years or so. they are expected to have to use that time to figure out how to extricate themselves from the european union. let's go to susan in the studio with me, a fellow at the new america foundation, former treasury official for the clinton obama administrations.
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for anyone watching thinking how will this affect me in my trading day and investments, things are down across the board. the dow down 68, the s&p down 68, the dow down 58. had been worse an the nasdaq down 143. how will it affect people's pocketbook and how should they react? >> initially you want to take a breath. nobody should be diving in to sell everything in their 401(k) immediately. this will probably come back in a few weeks. certainly a month or so. we have circuit breakers in our markets right now. if it goes down 7% in one day, the market stops for 15 minutes to take a breath. 15% another breaker and 20% it shuts down completely for the day. i don't think we will hit the 7% market breaker in the u.s. in the u.k. they will get to that point. they have different circuit breakers set up there. in terms of how you are watching the market, it will look like a
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bad down day but not catastrophe. this is not the 2008 financial crisis. that is not what is happening in the u.s. >> the extent to which great britain will be on shaky ground for sometime. it could table up to two years before they figure out how to extricate themselves from the eu. does that translate to volatile any in the united states over that period of time. >> i think it will surround certain sectors not across the board. we are seeing the bank stocks in the u.k. get hammered down 30% earlier i think part of that is the uncertainty is people expect interest rates may rise in the u.k. because the cost of borrowing increases and banks are dependent on interest rates. a lot of uncertainty concerning for the banks. you might see that volatility in bank stocks. in the u.s. the bank stocks will not see that same volatility.
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>> you have gone on record saying it would have been better for the u.k. to stay in the eu from a fiscal perspective, what happens now? >> i think it would have been better. and president obama is on the record saying it would have been better b. that has an interesting dynamic as to what role the u.s. can play in terms of what happens going forward here. i think we will see short term turmoil. i'm a little puzzled by david cameron's statement today. i think it would have been better for him to say we will have a period of stable and putting a date on it created now certain to have instability for three months. >> thank you very much for bringing stable to this crazy time as we cover this brexit. thank you so much. we will wrap up this hour and be back at the top of the hour with more. we are keeping an eye on scotland. donald trump is expected to take the podium in thee or four minutes. we will see if he is on time. ♪
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ladies and gentlemen, dare to dream, but the dawn is breaking on an independent united kingdom. we fought against the big merchant banks. we fought against big politics. we fought against lies, corruption and deceit. let's get rid of the flag, the anthem, brussels and all that's gone wrong. let june the 23rd go down in our history as our independence day. >> the world has

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