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tv   With All Due Respect  MSNBC  June 27, 2016 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT

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that's going to do it for us tonight. chuck will be back tomorrow with more "mtp daily." "with all due respect" begins right now. i'm john heilemann. >> i'm mark halperin. on the show tonight a work week that started with a political bang. yeah, your brexit aftermath. your pair of blockbuster supreme court decisions which we will talk about. you also got two democratic party superstars sharing a cincinnati stage and drawing attention galore. the fact they are both women and one is reportedly eyeing the other to join her on the democratic ticket turned a morning hillary clinton rally
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into something way more than run of the mill. for the first time since elizabeth warren endorsed clinton earlier this month, the two appeared side by side. the crowd was roaring. the speeches soaring. the attacks on donald trump, definitely not boring. ♪ this is my fight song take back my life song ♪ >> i'm here today because i'm with her. yes, her. what kind of man roots for people to lose their jobs, to lose their homes, to lose their life savings? i'll tell you what kind of a man. a small, insecure money grubber who fights for no one but himself. hillary clinton will be the next president of the united states because she knows what it takes to beat a thin-skinned bully who is driven by greed and hate.
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you know i could do this all day. i really could. donald trump calls african-americans thugs, muslims terrorists, latinos rapists and criminals and women, bimbos. hillary clinton believes that racism, hatred, injustice and bigotry have no place in our country. she fights for us. she fights for us and we will fight for hillary clinton. >> elizabeth is leading the fight to liberate millions of americans from the burden of student debt. and no one works harder to make sure wall street never, never wrecks main street again. and i must say, i do just love to see how she gets under donald trump's thin skin.
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>> that clinton and warren duo in cincinnati drew quite the reaction from donald j. trump billionaire but also garnered glowing reviews from reporters on the ground and from ye oldest cable news punditry class. >> i was struck by their embrace, struck by how she completed hillary clinton's sentences but it also seemed to make hillary clinton sharper as well about her argument about why she's fighting for the little guy. >> you watch this event, it did seem like magic on that stage. >> i think democrats across the country probably looked at this event and thought they saw a pretty good winning ticket for the fall. the chemistry looked very real. >> hillary clinton clearly enjoyed campaigning with her today. that was evident as well. to have her on board the team in a full way, i think is a benefit to hillary clinton. >> hillary needs that boost, she needs that energy. she's also doing her a favor because she's able to take on the trump defensive in a way her husband attempted to do but it wasn't quite as well received. i think the girls teaming up is
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a good move. >> did you see the matching pantsuits? there they are. >> i love the fact two women in matching blue pantsuits are having a conversation about a man's hat. >> ladies, can i start with the obvious there, those blue suits, the matching blue suits, then they call donald trump goofy. >> it's a pantsuit extravaganza. >> the same hair and all. >> warren has moved closer and closer to the center ring of this race. we disagree about how likely it is she's going to be picked to be on the ticket, but does she look to you off that event like hillary clinton's running mate? >> i don't even know that we disagree about the likelihood in the sense i agree with you, it's not that likely. i look at that picture and say if hillary clinton was smart, she would consider elizabeth warren very seriously for this job. she needs energy, she needs passion, she needs a jolt of electricity and she needs to connect with the sanders voters who are still in some worrying numbers staying away from her and have not come over to her.
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elizabeth warren would solve that problem and would be -- it would be an electric thing out there. that may be why she won't pick her but i think she should. >> the dumbest thing you can do and hillary clinton knows this well is to pick somebody because they are electric or magic or good at a rally. you pick someone who can be seen as ready to be president and who you want to govern with. i think in the end, it's going to be someone in america hillary clinton thinks is a better commander in chief potentially and would more likely to spend four, eight years with. >> in terms of actual security credentials, there are others who have more. i think elizabeth warren is right when she says she would pass the ready to be commander in chief threshold. i also just think you look at again, to use the hackneyed example, you remember what happened when bill clinton put al gore on the ticket against conventional wisdom and he got that boost, a very similar thing could happen on this ticket. >> no doubt today was a special event. if you are a republican and want to deny that, you're nuts. there was a ton of energy and
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emotion in the room. and forget every other aspect of every qualification elizabeth warren brings to the table. two women who can rally a crowd, take on donald trump with that degree of confidence and aggressiveness, that is a powerful thing. she will get a big speech at the convention, campaign for senate candidates throughout the country, raise money in her own way, but i just don't think the clintons will put someone that far to the left, that much of a strong personality, on the ticket. >> maybe true. it's a reasonable horse race approximation. i will say the other thing hillary clinton was thinking today was really glad i didn't run against that woman for the democratic nomination because she would have beaten me. that's probably another reason she won't get on the ticket. didn't take long for donald trump to unleash an unusually energetic rebuke of warren's campaign trail debut. he sent out a press release calling the appearance with clinton a quote, sad attempt at pandering to the sanders wing, end quote, of the democratic party. it also called warren a quote,
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sellout for backing clinton and in a phone conversation with nbc's hallie jackson, he lashed out even further at elizabeth warren, calling her quote, a fraud and a quote, racist because he says she quote, created a phony heritage. my question for you is, not that common to see a presumptive nominee or nominee attacking a surrogate in this way. what's that about? >> punching down is normally not a good idea. donald trump, when he is genuinely riled, trump lets himself be trump. i think there might be something to that. i also think that he needs to unite the republican base. part of why he's struggling right now is he needs republicans on his side. as much as hillary clinton unites the republican base, elizabeth warren does even more. i think that he would be smarter to talk about her liberal policies than going after her personally. >> well, that's certainly true. i totally understand the politics of it. he's trying to get -- trump has
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an idealogically diverse coalition which means he has an idealogically diverse, those who are hanging back are idealogically diverse. this helps with conservatives but i got to say for a guy who has gotten in trouble not just with us, not just with democrats and liberals but with a lot of republicans for playing with racial or racist fire, this pocahontas thing is doing him no good. go after her because she's too left wing. the pocahontas thing is just not good for him. again, even with members of his own party. >> i also think, make it personal about her rather than linking her to liberals. he's in a bit of a box because she is very similar to bernie sanders and he's still trying to court bernie sanders supporters as difficult as that will be. i think he would be better served not maybe being so personal about it. >> i agree. >> all right. holy polls, batman. over the weekend there was a lot of talk about some new general election surveys. once again, hillary clinton is leading donald trump in national polls by a wider margin than she is leading him in many battleground states.
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there's a new nbc news/"wall street journal" survey that shows her beating him five points, 46% to 41%. brand new numbers out this evening, 52% of registered republicans in the survey said they are not satisfied with trump as their nominee. 45% of democrats say the same thing about clinton. there's another new national poll out over the weekend, abc news and "the washington post." there, clinton has a much larger lead, double digits, 51% to 39% over trump. but the share of democrats in that poll is significantly higher than nbc's share, counting for a lot of the difference. cbs had a lot of battleground tracker polls. those tell a different story about the race and obviously matter more in terms of the electoral college. clinton has a one point lead in colorado, two points in north carolina, three in florida, five in wisconsin, critically important states in all those races, the distance between the candidates is within the margin of error. texas university put out a poll
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that shows trump just up eight points there. one number got a lot of discussion, not about clinton and trump, but about president obama and it follows a trend line we have talked about. it's in that abc news/"the washington post" poll that shows the president's approval rating at 56%. that's the highest it's been since way back in 2011 after osama bin laden was killed. so a lot of data and again, continuing that pattern of trump closer in the battleground states, what jumps out at you? >> there's the obvious, there are two obvious conundrums to unravel, one of which is why the "washington post"/abc poll is so different. these are well respected pollsters, they have obviously different samples. they have come up with -- their picture of the electorate, one of them thinks the democrats are in much stronger position than the other. the bloomberg politics national
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poll had trump -- clinton up by 12. these pollsters are figuring out what their sample is, not by putting their thumb on the scale but by talking to people. we don't know at this point. the republican party's in a lot of trouble as a brand. could be that "washington post" poll is right. the other conundrum, is the disparity between national and state polls and mysterious as to why that would be. >> you have a state like california where trump is not competitive, state like new york, big states where you have a lot of people that will be in part of that national poll. the battleground state polls are interesting. clinton's been on television, super pac has been on television in those states. >> trump has not been. >> yet the trump people will point out to you that that suggests he's not in nearly as much trouble. generally in the battleground states he's doing better with independents and with men, and those states tend to have independents who may be more blue collar, maybe more like reagan democrats, now
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independents and got to be hard if you are a republican trump supporter or trump to say battleground states are closer. it's a big deal. >> especially given how bad his last month has been. the supreme court today announced a decision overturning an abortion law in texas, and overturning the corruption conviction of former virginia governor bob mcdonnell. we will talk about the impact of these decisions after this. ng a. amazing is moving like one. real is making new friends. amazing is getting this close. real is an animal rescue. amazing is over twenty-seven thousand of them. there is only one place wher real and amazing live. seaworld. real. amazing i love that my shop is part of the morning ritual around here. people rely on that first cup and i wouldn't want to mess with that. but when (my) back pain got bad,
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supreme court today struck down parts of a texas law that restricted the number of abortion clinics in the lone star state, ruling that the provisions in question placed an undue burden on women. the 5-3 decision was the court's most sweeping statement on abortion rights in decades and will impact laws in dozens of other states. the clinton campaign was quick to put out celebratory statement this morning, calling the decision a quote, victory for women across america. donald trump has so far not responded publicly.
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so mark, two questions for you about this. what do you think the fallout is from this decision? it is historic, by any stretch, going back to casey, there has not been a bigger decision. and what do you think the impact will be on the presidential race? >> there's a five-vote majority to support the decision and not having undue burden on women seeking to get abortions. obviously it has a huge impact on texas on actual access to abortions and in other states. and it reminds anyone who doesn't remember this that while justice kennedy is a swing vote on a lot of issues, he's been a pretty reliable vote for abortion rights and until republicans figure out a way to replace not just justice scalia, if they can do that, but someone else from that five-vote majority on this issue, abortion rights will continue to be protected and in some cases expanded by the supreme court. >> it is, you know, the roe v wade and casey, the successor decision almost 20 years later, have been most intensely
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litigated polarizing discussions maybe in our lifetime in politics, yet the basic core thing that's embodied in both decisions, which is safe, legal and rare, we are not getting rid of abortion rights no matter how the supreme court waxed and waned at this point, you can put anothe clarence thomas on the court and would still have five votes to basically go for safe, legal and rare. that's an important affirmation and shows you how something in a weird way, how kind of durable roe has turned out to be over now 40 years of jurisprudence. >> it will be interesting to see how donald trump handles this. it's a tough decision to fight at this point with making any argument that's not complicated and doesn't risk inflaming the other side. >> in our hearts we don't really think, we don't think donald trump is a wild pro-life person. his history on the issue until this campaign, he's never been a pro lifer. it would highlight an issue on which i think his authenticity is most clearly in question. if you look at the history of
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where he's been on the issue and what he's said about it over time. i think he might just leave it alone. >> very big ruling. more on that with pete williams later in the program. as well as on another high court ruling today. the justices ruled unanimously on this one to vacate the conviction of the former governor of virginia, bob mcmcdonnell, who was convicted in 2014 after he accepted gifts and vacations from the ceo of a virginia-based company who was trying to gain access to the governor and members of his team. the chief justice john roberts called what mcdonnell did distasteful but ultimately ruled that federal prosecutors' definition of an official act was too broad. i thought this prosecution was outrageous from the beginning. i'm delighted with how the court ruled. i wonder what you think the implications are for this ruling for prosecutors, politicians and the press. >> lot of politicians all over the country breathing a big sigh of relief here because this
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was -- notably a unanimous decision by the supreme court. far left to far right, everyone thought this was lousy outcome for mcdonnell. the idea that the only kind of corruption is straightforward quid pro quo bribery is ridiculous. there's a systemic thing that takes place in our messed-up system. >> reporters always side implicitly and sometimes explicitly with the prosecution until the person is either found not guilty at trial or in this case, i bet a lot of people say of course he shouldn't have been convicted. politicians should not overread the lesson and assume now you can take all the gifts you want and most importantly for prosecutors, this was not a case that should ever have been brought. there are plenty of public corruptions cases that are absolutely legit. there are some people now who have been convicted who think this will get their convictions overturned. it should not. bob mcdonnell did not do
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anything official for this guy. >> distasteful. there's a really good remedy to a lot of distasteful actions. we should write about them. the press should have covered this. it should have been a big story. if the voters didn't like it, vote him out. >> the problem with that is you don't know the facts with the subpoena power. this prosecutor, fine to investigate it. shouldn't have indicted him. up next, donald j. trump, billionaire walks back his immigration stance. we will talk about trump's interview with bloomberg politics over the weekend. crowd sounds ] oooh! [ brakes screech ] when your pain reliever stops working, your whole day stops. excuse me, try this. but just one aleve can last 12 hours. tylenol and advil n quit after 6. [ cheering ] so live your whole day, not part... with 12 hour aleve.
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the world is still pretty much comprehensibly freaking out over the united kingdom's vote to leave the european union at the end of last week. today, secretary of state john kerry met with officials in brussels amid continued disagreement between uk and eu leaders on how to begin the negotiations of the withdraw. opponents are trying to find a way to stop it as many express seller's remorse. an online petition calling for a second referendum has been signed by more than 3.5 million people and some scottish officials are exploring ways to remain part of the eu or force another vote or both. mark, my question for you is a year from now, i ask you, will britain still be part of the eu or will it be gone? >> i have no idea. i find the online petition to be kind of a joke.
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i don't care about that. i really don't under stand the scots' standing to do this. you see already markets are calming. people who predicted this would somehow lead to widespread sustained turmoil, i never thought so. i don't see that happening. >> lot of money's been lost. >> they will all make it back in the next week. there are bargains out there. >> you're not going to be my stock picker. >> to me, the biggest sign of where this is headed is the fact that within the european union, there's disagreement about how quickly we want this to happen. the initial reaction was we got to get this right away. now there's real division within countries and within the eu about maybe there's some way to patch this up. >> well, you have now got people like boris johnson, the leaders of the leave campaign, saying what i meant by leave was we still want to be part of the common market and we still want to have kind of immigration and relatively open borders weesh dt want to be part of the regulatory and tax regimes. the question will be that
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increasingly it looks like whoever will be the new leader of the conservative party and prime minister has to hold a snap election to get another vote on this. who becomes the labor leader? does labor win that election? if labor were to win the election before the end of this year, labor will have another referendum on this. you could very easily under those circumstances, there's a lot of contingencies there, but under the circumstances you could have another referendum and could end up having this whole thing go away and we go back to status quo six months from now. >> i don't think that's most likely. but it's reasonable. because the reality is after the vote, again, this is where the petition does play into it, the press is completely against exit, so -- >> as is most of parliament. >> there's not very many voices arguing in a strenuous way. even boris johnson is saying -- >> we still kind of maybe want to be in that. >> slowly head to the exit. partial exit. now it's time to talk about another big exit. not britain, but republicans who are leaving the party because of donald trump.
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in the past two weeks, the following republicans have endorsed hillary clinton. not all of them leaving the republican party, but leaving their party's nominee. that includes bush's, bush 43's treasury secretary hank paulson, the deputy secretary of state richard armitage, brent scowcroft and the former reagan administration official jim ciconni among a few others. george will, the conservative columnist over the weekend, suggested he was leaving the republican party and not voting for trump. there are a handful of elite defections, a lot more private ones. when and if would you say that these kind of elite republican defections away from trump and in some cases away from republican party will actually hurt his chances of winning? >> i don't know the answer to that question. i find it hard to think that any of those people who we just mentioned, all of whom are familiar names to you and me but no voter in america, virtually no voter knows who they are, including hank paulson. the thing that's relevant to me about it is that it's reflective
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of a thing that is actually going on in the rest of the republican party which is that trump is having, right now, getting about 75% of republicans to be for him. when you look at these national polls, battleground state polls, the republican party has not come home to trump. there's a lot of polling that suggests there's still a lot of dissatisfaction with trump. these are high profile representatives of that. to the extent they represent that, that's meaningful. >> trump's chance of winning this general election have always been and are still based on the notion of a different kind of coalition and one that says people who made treasury department decisions in the last ten years, who made national security decisions in the last ten, 20 years, they're wrong. if you like the way things are, vote with these guys. i think that would trump want their endorsements? he often will say i don't want that. i don't know if he wants their endorsements. these people care about the status quo. >> but as you know, there are establishmentarian voters, the voters version of these people. >> trump can replace them with blue collar people. >> somehow he has to get over
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75% of people who are self-identified republicans. you can't win the presidency with 75%. >> the campaign i think is rightfully, relatively -- if they have a good running mate, a good convention, if he has a good debate he can bring the party back. >> can he have a good convention if a lot of the most famous republicans in the country won't show up? >> might even help them. more from trump's scottish expedition when we come back. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis,
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that was donald j. trump, billionaire in scotland this weekend, walking back a bit his
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position on immigration during his interview with our colleague, kevin cirelli who joins us in steudio. also joining us, kasie hunt who is covering hillary clinton in chicago today. thank you both for joining us. kasie, we want to talk about this decision on abortion from the supreme court. how has hillary clinton responded to that herself and by her campaign? >> well, look, this is a decision where she of course tweeted about it immediately, saying that it was the right decision for women, but it's not necessarily something, we didn't hear a lot about it from hillary clinton today on the stump. i think had this been a different decision than the one that actually did come down, you may have heard something of a noisier reaction. but i think this was warmly embraced but not necessarily overly focused on by the clinton
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campaign today. >> kevin, you have a scoop on this and the fact that trump hadn't tweeted or put out a statement. how is the trump campaign dealing with this? >> he's not put out a statement, clearly underscoring how contentious this issue has become. i was just speaking with members of trump's evangelical board and they told me that the campaign has been in touch with them and they view this as another reason why donald trump should be president to appoint conservative supreme court judges. so they're using this to pivot to the supreme court. >> so you were in scotland with donald trump. you talked to him about what seems like a pivot on his immigration stance. just give us a sense of the flavor of that conversation and also tell us whether you had any haggis there. >> i did not. it sounded gross to me. here's what i can tell you. after we went through a truly remarkable historic day, two days in scotland with donald trump where he spoke and was criticized for speaking at two of his golf course properties, he went on a rolling press gaggle, if you will, taking us from hole to hole and commenting
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and after that concluded we then went to his clubhouse where i interviewed him more broadly speaking about this shift in tone that we're starting to see ever since he's removed corey lewandowski from campaign manager. we talked about two of the most controversial policy positions that he's put out. of course, being immigration and the proposed temporary muslim ban. in the conversation with me, what we noticed was someone who was clearly trying to pivot to a general election. he said that he wanted to ban and limit immigration from countries where there are several terrorists, with regard to the muslim ban and on immigration, of course he says there will not be quote unquote, mass deportations. >> kasie, i want to ask you one of the same questions i asked kevin, whether or not you had haggis in chicago. if you haven't yet, make sure you find some. >> i was unaware. i have to go looking for some. they have pizza here, right? >> they have both. my question for you relates to what we saw earlier in the show
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which is kind of the incredible sight of elizabeth warren and hillary clinton onstage together. we talked about what seemed like from afar, there was a lot of electricity. give us a sense of what it was like in the room. >> well, i should say i was not in the room in cincinnati. i have been here in chicago covering her speech here. but one thing i will add to the segment you guys did earlier is that her campaign is going out of its way to make sure that this is viewed as an intense collaboration. they are putting out, telling reporters about how hillary clinton and elizabeth warren rode to the event together after they were at their hotel in the morning looking over remarks together. these are the kind of details that as you both know well, the clinton campaign doesn't toss around. it's very hard to say to them hey, got any interesting color that would help inform us. a lot of times they basically laugh and say sorry, no, we don't. in this particular case, they're trying to underscore that. i think the visuals on the
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stage, the two of them, they almost looked like they were dressed alike, elizabeth warren was standing in the frame applauding throughout hillary clinton's remarks. they are definitely treating her in an embracing way. i think that's noteworthy regardless of where she stands in this kind of veepstakes back and forth, just because i think they know that it's important that they keep her in the fold and i think it helps illustrate that she can play a significant role even if it's not on the ticket. >> how would you summarize the clinton campaign's view of trump's trip to scotland? >> i think that they put out the ad that they put out says most of what you need to know about their view of it. i think they feel like if we're going to take the serious tact on this, they feel he highlighted all the weaknesses he has compared to her strengths on this and they of course have talked about having her do a foreign trip because it would
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underscore the strengths she has and i think that they viewed what came out of scotland as exactly what they needed to help push their message forward. so no complaints on the trip to turnberry from team clinton. >> before he went people were scratching their heads saying why is he spending a couple days at his private golf courses. having gone and watched what he did and obviously he weighed in on many issues of the day, do you understand the logic of it any better now, having come back? >> well, this was planned before brexit. this was planned completely separate from brexit. but it was a pretty surreal moment as we were all awaiting for him to land in his helicopter and we are getting word on twitter that cameron had just resigned. so i think just from the historical context and the parallels between trump's supporters as well as what we are seeing in the u.k. i will note that tomorrow, when trump is going to give a trade speech, in suburban pittsburgh, and of course he will be able to tap into west virginia and ohio media markets, i would expect him to really take on the
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difference in policy between senator warren and hillary clinton. i think that he is going to look and the people that i spoke with today alluded to him being able to really point a clear difference in terms of trade policy on the trans-pacific partnership between hillary clinton and senator warren. >> i recognize that the brexit vote was [ inaudible ] in the sense trump did not anticipate there would be an exit. that date was on the calendar as the date when a historic vote was going to take place. i still find it amazing that his first words out of his mouth were not when he got on that golf course on friday, was not to talk about this thing that had just happened. he should have been prepared for that regardless. did you have any sense -- prepared for the fact he would have to comment on the outcome, whatever it was. do you have any sense of why it was he did not go do the statesman thing? >> what's interesting is there were no larger leaders representing scotland there. there were local politicians
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there. that should be noted. in terms of before the press conference began when he walked into the golf course, he did do an immediate gaggle that was first before the press conference where he did comment on brexit and again, immediately, we heard from him he put out a statement before the white house did remarkably, and we did hear that he immediate ly did try to draw th parallels between the u.k. declaring independence and his own supporters. >> how is trump -- i mean the clinton campaign going to deal with trade if trump tries to get to her left, to the protectionist side, what do you think she'll do? >> well, i think that this is really tricky and one thing that's flown under the radar today is bernie sanders coming out and calling for the democratic party to reject the tpp as part of the platform, which was interesting to me, because i think it signals that if you have to say something like that publicly you are obviously trying to stir up something of a fight. they have these private negotiations going on that don't
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seem to be going apparently this would be a sign they are not going as well as some might hope on the clinton side. so i do think that it's a very thorny issue that she really hasn't totally sorted out yet because especially in that context, it would put her at odds with the president of the united states who is still at this point the leader of the democratic party. so i think that that is one place where there's an opportunity for the trump campaign. we have seen her wrestle with this throughout the primary. she was in the view of many bernie sanders supporters slow to come around on this issue and there's no real indication to me that she still feels entirely comfortable. it's one of those dancing on the head of the pin things that a lot of her aides talked about in the wake of that. i think there's an opportunity there for trump. >> i do, too. i agree. i think it will be one of the most complicated things she has to deal with if trump tries to outflank her because she has been moving around. hard to know where she wants to end up. thank you both very much.
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welcome home. >> bernie sanders not helping much. >> no. not on that. when we come back, we are joined by the man. our friend, al hunt, after this. anyone with type 2 diabetes knows how it feels to see your numbers go up, despite your best efforts. but what if you could turn things around? what if you could... love your numbers? discover once-daily invokana®. it's the #1 prescribed
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in a second. i want to ask about the subject i'm obsessed with right now, brexit. just from -- totally from the united states perspective, secretary of state kerry had some comments about this today, but from the u.s. perspective, where you sit in washington, d.c., what is it that is most disconcerting, the biggest challenge that american policy makers are grappling with right now as a result of brexit, assuming that it actually happens? >> well, the american economy is actually doing better than most other western economies but we are very dependent on how they do. if china sneezes, we get a cold and europe for all of its problems is not unimportant. the fear is that this will cause some kind of downturn not just in great britain but also on the continent and that affects the u.s. there's nothing we can do about it. but that's the fear. >> so al, you think it's mostly that economics are more disconcerting to policy makers than the potential security
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implications dealing with all the various things that america has to deal with in terms of how europe confronts middle eastern challenges, terrorist challenges, et cetera? >> well, that's a very good point. also putin. putin is a real concern. i think the challenges are really equal. the feeling is how strong can europe be. great britain has been a great ally in most of these confrontations we have had. they backed away a bit in the middle east but they really have been. if it's a weaker britain, i think that's a problem for us, particularly in the security area. >> i want to switch to your column where you look at the macro economic policies of hillary clinton and donald trump and their proposals. just talk about the vagueness of trump's proposals and where the big holes are. >> well, they both have big problems. let me just go to clinton for a minute. one of her big problems is that she has this obsession saying i'm really paying for everything. she really isn't but she tries to argue that. let me give you one example.
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infrastructure. she has a $275 billion infrastructure plan. nobody who has thought about what we need for bridges and highways and airports think that's anywhere near adequate. she will have to double that. but she won't raise the gas tax or propose that or deal with the carbon tax. how she's going to squeeze that together really will be difficult in the months ahead. but trump's problems are much as he would say huger. it's not just that -- to get unemployment down to really add jobs he relies on trade sanctions, protectionism, which no one believes. let's just take his tax plan. right now it's going to cost about $10 trillion over the next ten years. i talked to steve moore, one of two supply siders he has charged with reforming it, to make it a bit more palatable. steve says we will get it down to $3 trillion, it will be supply side and middle class oriented. you can't do that. it all doesn't fit. i think it's incumbent upon us just as my pal john heilemann
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says we ought to stay on him, his refusal to release taxes, we should stay on him. >> so his plan is to take a plan from $10 trillion over three years to $3 trillion? >> that's what they want to do, cut it by two-thirds. if he tries to do that, his principal will run away from it. you can't make it a supply side tax cut that certainly doesn't go and penalize the wealthy, if you will, and really have a big middle class tax cut without raising any taxes elsewhere. it's not feasible. >> let me ask you about the politics of each of their economic proposals within their parties. clinton has always been seen as centrist democrat, new democrat, in that mold. now she's the presumptive leader of a party that is much more in terms of its policy preferences, much closer to bernie sanders. does she have political problems with her proposals on the left of her own party? >> i think that donald trump
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assuages a lot of those fears, john. i think otherwise, she might. she's already thrown him some red meat on the trans-pacific trade pact which she says she opposed. i don't really think she does. she will go halfway on higher education. she won't go as far as bernie went. she will give him something on rhetoric on wall street. but i think one of her biggest challenges as i said a moment ago will be infrastructure because that's something all democrats should agree on but that $275 million, i hate to say this, that really is small stuff. that's not going to get you very many highways or bridges or airports. >> al, in context of the veepstakes choices, the various trump campaign folks have said they are going to pick somebody, he is going to pick someone clearly seen as qualified to be president. of the people said to be under consideration, who do you think fits that bill? >> bob corker. >> yeah? >> i don't think he will pick him. i think bob corker probably best
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fits the bill. on the democratic side, tim kaine. >> do you think chris christie would meet that bar for most people? >> not as much as corker. he has no foreign policy experience. he's an immensely unpopular governor of new jersey. there's still a little bit of whiff of scandal hanging over him. it would be a harder sell. it wouldn't be as hard as a few other people. >> what about newt gingrich? >> it's my wish. it's my dream. i have a gingrich file this big. imagine the family values party, six marriages, all the stuff that newt's said over the years. we could turn this into a five-hour show every day. >> we will just, on your behalf, we will be praying for gingrich. >> thanks, al. >> you are awesome as always. coming up, we talk scotus with the great pete williams. you do all this research
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joining us now from outside the supreme court in washington to talk more about the supreme court rulings today, nbc justice correspondent pete williams. pete, thanks for joining us. want to start with the abortion case out of texas. i erroneously suggested that justice kennedy had never voted or was a reliably pro-choice vote on the court. he's not on partial birth abortion, he voted on the pro-life side. where does justice kennedy stand now in terms of abortion and the role of the court? >> well, partial birth abortion, remember, the court struck down a nebraska law that stopped the so-called partial birth abortions. then came the federal law. that's when justice kennedy wrote the decision which alarmed advocates of abortion rights. i think that was a bridge too far for him. this really gets back to the main holding of planned parenthood v casey, the big case 25 years ago, that today the supreme court picks up the language on. what they say is that these two restrictions in texas, saying doctors have to have admitting
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privileges at nearby hospitals and the clinics have to be built to the same standard as surgical centers in terms of equipment, staffing, construction standards and so forth, they add to the obstacles that make it hard tore get an abortion but they don't add any medical benefits. for that reason, he said it's an undue burden echoing the language of casey. so it's surprising, though, during the oral argument, kennedy seemed not to be willing to go that far and he seemed to be concerned about the facts in the case. he suggested even at one point sending it back for more development about well, okay, which law caused which clinics to close so we know how the laws work differently. clearly he joined the four more liberal justices. that gave us this 5-3 ruling that would have had the same outcome even if justice scalia had still been on the court. >> talk about the implications of this for other states around the country. there are obviously a bunch of states that have similar provisions as the texas law in various regards. some have actually been modeled
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on the texas law. what happens now in those states? >> immediately, nothing. this ruling today applies only to texas but what will happen is the opponents of those laws will take the ruling, go back into court and say look, the same logic applies here in our state as applied to texas. we want these laws struck down. i would expect for the most part they will win. those laws are going to be in big trouble. this wedge of laws, this dozen or so laws like texas was a new strategy for opponents of abortion. after years of going after the patients by restricting women's access, by saying you got to have counseling or there's a waiting period or reducing the period of time and during pregnancy when abortion is legal, they said that's not working, let's go after the clinics and the doctors. today they lost. >> how do you explain unanimous ruling from the justices on the bob mcdonnell case? different from the prosecutor making a decision, a federal prosecutor sees this as not only good prosecution to bring but
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earns a conviction. how can you reconcile that? >> all you had to do is hear the organi oral argument. there wasn't a single justice that was a big cheerleader for the prosecution of bob mcdonnell. today the chief justice who wrote this opinion says it's tawdry what the former governor did but the essence of the case is what's an official act. the federal law says you violate the law if you take something like he got here cash and gifts in exchange for performing official acts. that was the question. what's an official act. the court said today the kind of stuff governor mcdonnell did setting up meetings, talking to staffers, hosting lunches, that's garden variety stuff government officials do all the time. that's not an official act. an official act, they said, is when you have a decision pending and you vote on it or you influence that decision. so as a technical matter, the case is sent back, the appeals court can look at it again and see if there's a point and a retrial but basically they send
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the prosecution back severely handicapped and not only this case, but this is going to make it harder for prosecutors to bring corruption cases against other public officials. you know the two legislators up in new york state, their cases are on hold waiting for the supreme court decision for their sentence. the lawyer for robert menendez who faces a corruption charge from the federal government that he did favors for an eye doctor from florida in return for travel and so forth, that case could be affected by this. so every time the supreme court rules to toughen the corruption laws, it takes awhile for it to work through the courts before you really know how big an effect it had. >> pete williams at the court, thanks very much. appreciate it. we'll be right back. ♪ americans are buying more of everything online. and so many businesses rely on the us postal service to get it there. that's why we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. the us postal service. priority: you
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c. bender's story about 13 executive orders trump could accomplish without congressional approval if he becomes president of the united states. until tomorrow, we have one word for you. that is sayonara. >> coming up, "hardball with chris matthews." team hillary goes on the attack. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews back in washington, where hillary clinton today teamed up with senator elizabeth warren and made donald trump wish those two had never met. hitting the tycoon fresh from his time on the links in scotland and down in the polls here at home, clinton and the nightmare of wall street went for the guy's jugular. >> hillary clinton will be the next president of the united states because she knows what it takes to beat a thin-skinned bully who


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