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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  June 28, 2016 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT

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it is obviously a prime target. but we have to wait until perhaps the day light hours to get a claim from any terror group and to have a clearer idea on the final death toll. >> that does it for my coverage this hour. "hardball" starts right now. good evening. i'm chris matthews in new york with an update on today's terrorist attack in turkey. at least 28 people were killed and another 60 injured when at least three terrorists blew themselves up at the istanbul airport. witnesses say they first opened fire with automatic weapons. we have new footage that appears to show the explosions, though nbc news has not independently confirmed this. we should warn you, it is graphic. i it's security video that appears to show one of the gunmen being shot by police, falling down and then detonating his explosive.
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another video from security camera footage playing on a computer shows another explosion inside the terminal. a senior u.s. counterterrorism official told nbc news it is very likely, his words, today's attack was the work of a group of 35 terrorists dispatched by isis. the official said the attack might be the first of several tied to the end of ramadan. well, last march the group claimed credit for coordinated attacks on the brussels airport and metro station that killed 32 people up there. also tonight, why did an order to rescue ambassador chris stevens and fellow americans not get carried out? why were no american planes headed to libya that fateful night? donald trump today travels from pennsylvania to ohio, hitting the same red-hot issues of trade and immigration that roiled the british decision to leave europe. that's coming up tonight on "hardball." first, for the sixth time in a year, two of them here in the u.s., another major terrorist attack, another major european
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city is reeling. nbc's richard engel joins us now from istanbul. richard, thank you. give us a sense of where this lies in the context of what we have had already in terms of terrorism from san bernardino all the way to turkey in istanbul to what might be coming. >> reporter: well, the concern is that this was just the beginning and there may be more isis attacks in turkey or elsewhere. as you said, we reported several weeks ago that u.s. intelligence had picked up that isis had forward deployed more than 35 suicide bombers to turkey with the idea of carrying out attacks during the muslim holy month of ramadan. we never knew if they were going to be carrying out attacks in this country or if they were planning to transit through turkey to carry out international level attacks and simply using turkey as a gateway. after today's attack, a
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counterterrorism official told me this was highly likely linked to that forward deployment carried out by those militants and that this could be the first in a series of attacks because if the militants want to carry out attacks during ramadan, there is only one week left and this has been the first of what is presumed to be isis attack during ramadan. >> what is the reason for attacking during a holy period? why is that somehow timely in a terrorist's mind? >> reporter: in a certain sense, it is seen as more holy, more deserving of sacrifice. this is a long tradition of this frankly in muslim holy war, in a good sense and a bad sense. it has been used by isis and other extremist groups as a rallying cry that if you are going to give your life up and going to carry out a suicide attack, better to do it during
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the holiest month when you get the most blessings for it. >> thank you, richard engel. let's bring in msnbc's cal perry here in the newsroom with more graphic videos from the scene of the attack. >> as we review these videos, the picture we are seeing here is one of really heroic work by the security forces. this is the video of one of the bombers as he runs through the airport. he's shot and taken down by one of the security officials. you see the gun there sliding across the floor. then it's another ten seconds or so before he's able to explode his explosive device. the key here being there was no civilians around him at this point. we are also learning as richard engel talks to witnesses there, the first bomber was taken out outside by a member of the turkish security forces. the second one managed to detonate his explosives at the entryway of the airport. we believe this in fact was the third bomber who was shot by authorities and then still exploded his vest. that extra security measure,
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that extra bit of security outside the airport may have saved dozens of lives, as difficult as that is to imagine at this point. >> amazing pictures. thank you so much. senior u.s. intelligence official told nbc news this attack has the hallmarks of isis. so the official added, our long summer of discontent has just begun. anyway, joining me, msnbc terrorism analyst laith alcori from flashpoint, investigation risk analyst anthony rowan to my left and former cia terrorism analyst, tara maller. thank you. let me start right across here. to try to think about this from the question that the average person watching the show would have. we had the french train in august 2015. we had paris of course november. last year. then san bernardino december of last year. then brussels at the airport in march of this year.
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orlando, june of this year. istanbul now, june. is there any pattern to these? do they have something to do with geography, opportunity, vengeance? what do we make of this pattern if there is one, or isn't there one and is that the heart of terrorism? >> well, there is a pattern. the pattern is that they are increasingly sophisticated attacks and they are happening with greater frequency in the western world. and that is it. this is the new reality for us. we are -- >> how much brains does it take to pack yourself up with tnt and run into a crowd and blow yourself up? what do you mean, sophistication? >> the attacks are planned. there are surveillances conducted ahead of time. they are thought out. they are coordinated. each person participating in the attack has a specific role. in this case, the turks were quite adept at understanding and analyzing what happened in brussels and changed their security technique and moved it
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to the outer perimeter of the building. this saved countless lives. it appears these terrorists were attempting to penetrate one of those security points by blowing it up, this way allowing a pathway for the others to pass through. so when we are talking sophistication and tactics, that takes a little bit of training, that takes some bravery and this is the new reality. >> suicide brave? >> well, i wouldn't want to commit suicide. i don't know about you. >> i don't want to build these guys up, brain power or guts. >> but they have to be trained. but american airports and american facilities are not prepared to deal with this, as well as the turks dealt with it today. >> let me ask the same question. does that sound sophisticated, the idoiidea of one person goin, like charging an old medieval fort, one person blows the gate, the others rush through. >> we have seen a string of sophisticated attacks and the sophistication is not about
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strapping yourself with explosives, it's about building the explosives yourself. >> what did you see when you watched that surveillance tape? we haven't certified it here but look, we are looking at it as a prospect of what happened. the guy was shot down, he's still alive, his leg was dangling a bit at one point. all of a sudden, boom. what was he doing there? >> there was question of whether he detonated that vest or it was detonated due to him being shot. so that's not clear. what is clear is that there were at least three suicide bombers. that's coordinated. they attacked likely multiple parts of the airport or at least two different parts of the airport and what appears likely here is that this is taking place during the month of ramadan as we mentioned and during this month, you know, the frequency of attacks just goes higher. this is a call made specifically by isis spokesman just days before ramadan to specifically strike during this month against what he labeled civilians better than military.
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this seems to essentially follow in the footsteps of what he called for. >> throughout the islamic world of millions of people, three million people or so, a billion people, rather, they are thinking about this and thinking why attack turkey which is the most western of all the islamic states, i guess you can say, islamic countries. was this an attack on modernity? what's the motive? most people think of indonesia or pakistan or muslims living in india. what would be the motive behind something like this? >> there are a few reasons. this is a major airport, the tenth or 11th largest airport, has a huge international traveler base going through there. turkey is part of the coalition, turkey is striking isis in the heart of syria. there are a number of reasons. in terms of the attack itself, i agree that it was coordinated and there were explosives used but i don't want to sort of overestimate that these attacks we are seeing although increased in frequency, i don't think that they are necessarily all increasing in sophistication. we see terrorist groups time and time again hit the same types of targets, transportation targets
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have always been the top of the list. we see them using the same types of tactics, suicide bombs, more recently shootings, and some of these to be honest don't require that much funding, don't require that much training and the case of orlando or the home-grown cases, very little contact or operational training. so i don't want to sort of give them the boost of saying these are increasing in sophistication. coordination, maybe, because they had multiple bombers but a lot of these attacks, we don't know if these individuals travel to syria and iraq and got training. we don't know enough about that. turkey has high foreign fighter flow into syria so it's possible. but it's too early to say whether or not they were inspired or acted on their own. a lot of these people are inspired and have never actually had operational training or met with individuals in the group themselves. i don't want to overstate the sophistication. terrorists can be very successful unfortunately with low sophistication. that's why's an asymmetric tactic. in orlando, one individual with a gun in a night club was able to create the most death and
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destruction in a mass shooting in u.s. history. i don't want to overstate the sophistication but it doesn't matter. a low sophistication attack can still cause a large number of casualties, unfortunately. >> let me ask you about bombing. we don't have all the information, at least 28 dead, maybe more. a.p. is reporting many more. at least 100 injured badly, probably. look at that guy. we just watched there. maybe lost his leg. bombing. what's bombing in terrorism have to do, it always seems to involve bombing. is that one sure way to blow yourself up, certainly, and the suicide bomb strapped to the body seems to be part of this cult of suicide, martyrdom, if you will. >> they can have multiple switches, as my guest pointed out here, that once they are shot and killed, they can have an automated switch that if it's not held down, the bomb goes off. >> dead man's switch. >> that's right. but bombing can create tremendous collateral damage. the reason they want to get
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inside the terminal is that the same bomb will commit much more damage inside a terminal because of the enclosed space than outside the terminal. so in terms of planning and sophistication, it's required to have surveillance of the location, rehearsals, training with the weapons, training with the bombs, and it does require a level of planning to make -- >> does it require the help of somebody in isis land itself, if you will, in the place, the part of syria and iraq which they hold as sort of a semi-country now? does it require the participation of that homeland if you will of theirs to do these kind of things, or it's just a networking thing? >> well, it takes some money, it takes some planning, it takes safe houses, it takes some weapons. it takes bomb building. all of that requires administration. so we have the administration portion. >> this doesn't look lone wolf to you? >> this is not lone wolf. and it requires the execution
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portion. all of that requires a lot of different steps. >> since 9/11, we have always been aware that our enemies have one goal which is economic. they want to blast away at the west which has been so successful in the world in the last couple hundred years. maybe it's resentment, maybe this is the way to get the to them at their strength, take away their economic strength. airports, the lifeblood of countries like turkey. everybody wants to visit turkey, to go visit egypt. to live that lifeblood of tourists coming in mainly from the west, china, wealthier parts of asia, coming in with lots of money, spending it all at the hotel, on restaurants, and tourist places like that. this is going to discourage trips to istanbul. certainly people are not going to put it on their live now. >> and terror groups, specifically jihadist terror groups have made that very clear. hemorrhaging the economy of a certain country, especially world powers or regional, what they call tyrannical regimes
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will ultimately weaken their defense forces -- >> this is an islamic regime. not islamist but islamic regime. >> well -- >> maybe even islamist. >> it is certainly a country that has the majority of its people are muslim. they don't necessarily implement religious sharia law and the laws they are obviously part of nato, they are the gate of nato to the east of europe. >> you can wear a bathing suit in that country. >> you will not be banning bathing suits or prostitution, for that matter. what's clear is that turkey stands at the helm of the war against isis border-wise as well as it is helping the u.s.-led coalition or its own interests in the region. turkey is at the top of the target list for isis and other groups. >> well, tara, why don't you respond to this. this is secretary of state john kerry speaking today, for many of us i think he said this is becoming daily fare. definitely bimonthly, if you will. let's watch. >> i might just comment that i
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want to make sure according to press reports at least, are dead and some 40 wounded and we are still collecting information and trying to ascertain what happened and who did it. i won't comment further on it except to say that this is daily fare and that's why i say the first challenge we need to face is countering nonstate violent actors, for a host of reasons. >> nonstate violent actors is a long way of saying terrorists, in this case terrorists, we don't know how organized they were but the message from the experts here, tara, maybe you agree, we are talking about an organization here. it isn't just somebody who heard something on the internet. >> yeah. in this case it's not. but the problem we have been seeing is a combination of both. we have seen attacks where individuals have specific ties to isis affiliated groups. isis individuals. and we have seen examples where individuals are inspired through radicalization online. this fight will need to be won militarily in terms of taking out isis in its stronghold,
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raqqah and fallujah, so individuals can't get trained, can't have contact with these organizations, but it's a fight that will also need to be won online. stopping their messaging, their propaganda. this is where they have been extremely effective, inspiring individuals to carry out attacks in their name and those individuals don't actually have operational contact with the group. it's both. it's a little of both. >> get in the mind and heart and soul even of these people. three men apparently probably young and healthy with lives ahead of them, decided to kill themselves in the interest of blowing up a bunch of strangers at an airport. including a lot of muslims, fellow muslims. what's in their mind? >> well, you know, i'm not a psychologist and it seems when you look across these cases there's really unfortunately not one narrative. that's the million dollar question. everyone wants a monocausal explanation. in many cases it's a mix of jihadi inspiration, it's social networks of individuals they come into contact with, it's other problems potentially in their past, it's potential
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hatred towards specific minority groups as well. it's a lot of causes. that's what makes these individual attacks so hard to stop ahead of time and why people need to be vigilant, why more resources need to go to organizations like in the intelligence community and the fbi so when the individuals cross theiradar screen they can do the proper investigations. a lot of these cases the message appeals to individuals because they feel disenfranchised, may feel they don't have a voice in their society and they may to be frank have disagreements with policies by western countries. there's a combination. it's usually not one factor that goes across all individuals that engage in attacks whether san bernardino or istanbul today. >> when we were hit in 9/11 here in the city of new york we weren't hit by losers. the guys, the top four guys, the pilots who put it together were well-trained people, who could have had good careers as technical people. they were well educated. they were not losers. they seemed to be secular guys. they want to watch strip shows and stuff. they didn't seem to be mentally
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disturbed in any way. they had the usual sinful manner of a lot of people, violent or not. what is the heart of terrorism in this case? >> look, when you come down to the ideology itself and the ideology is much bigger than to explain in 30 seconds, but the idea here -- >> that's what we got. >> the idea is that the war is binary for them. the binary is that you are either with the enemy or you are with us and this -- >> so people in that airport going to south africa or dublin or wherever they were going, just regular neutralist people were seen as the enemy by these people? >> yes. and for isis all is fair in war. without the love part. and in this case, they believe that anybody who is in any capacity anti-isis will essentially be their enemy. >> your thoughts on this? people are all wondering every time this happens -- >> oversimplification. >> i agree. this runs the spectrum. you have physicians, scientists, bankers, an entire network that's not dissimilar to
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organized crime to keep this machine running. international financiers and the fight -- >> mobsters don't commit suicide. these guys do. that's the horrible tragic wrinkle. >> but simply the structure. the structure is sophisticated and runs the gamut from the very well educated to the poor and uneducated. >> we heard from richard engel, my expert in all these as well as you three. your expertise is obvious. richard engel thinks more is coming. anyway, thank you all. we will follow developments out of moscow -- why am i saying, i'm a cold war guy. out of istanbul, and how much more is coming. we will continue covering it for the next hour. including donald trump's reaction just moments ago and what this latest attack means politically for the presidential campaign in this country. next, the fallout from another terror attack. benghazi. house republicans release their long-awaited report on benghazi and while there's no new
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evidence some say of wrongdoing by hillary clinton, there's a big question about why did it take -- well, we never sent military assets to help those people. we never sent a rescue mission. why wasn't it sent? eight hours after the attack, nothing was done except talk. we will figure that out even though the president and secretary of defense did say deploy the assets. what was the snafu that prevented the military from doing anything? that's next. this is "hardball." the place for politics. with usaa is awesome. homeowners insurance life insurance automobile insurance
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i spent 20 years active duty they still refer to me as "gunnery sergeant" when i call being a usaa member because of my service in the military tsomething that makes me happy my name is roger zapata and i'm a usaa member for life. usaa. we know what it means to serve. get an insurance quote and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. '. donald trump held a campaign event in ohio a few moments ago, his first rally in the key battleground states since becoming the presumptive republican nominee for president. he weighed in on the breaking story out of turkey. here he is. >> folks, there's something going on that's really really bad. all right? it's bad. and we better get smart and we better get tough or we're not
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going to have much much a country left, okay? it's bad. terrible. >> as we do follow events from istanbul tonight, another terror attack is in the news once again. here in this country. republicans leading the house select committee on benghazi today issued an 800 page final report, final report, on the 2012 attacks that took the lives of four americans in libya including ambassador chris stevens. the report contained no new evidence implicating former secretary of state hillary clinton in any wrongdoing. however, it did uncover additional information about the night of the attacks, information the committee chair trey gowdy of south carolina says has not previously been reported. among the findings was that 35 americans were evacuated by the former military officers of the gadhafi regime, of all people, which had just been depossessed with our help, of course, and that president obama and secretary of defense leon panetta ordered military assets to benghazi that night but none were ever sent. one commander told investigators that marines sat on a plane for three hours and changed uniforms
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in those three hours four times before doing nothing. gowdy did not say the prompt deployment of military assets would have saved additional lives but highlighted a top white house level meeting after the order was given and here's what gowdy said today about that. >> no u.s. military asset was ever deployed to benghazi despite the order of the secretary of defense at 7:00 that night. so washington had access to real-time information but yet somehow, they thought the fighting had subsided. after secretary panetta ordered assets deployed to help our men, the white house convened a two-hour meeting and perhaps nothing shows the contrast between what was happening in benghazi and what was happening in washington than that two-hour white house meeting. not a single wheel of a single u.s. military asset had even
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turned toward libya. >> donald trump this evening tweeted the following. benghazi's just another hillary clinton failure. it just never seems to work the way it's supposed to with clinton. that's his thought. i'm joined by nbc's andrea mitchell. since the beginning of this debate, since that very sunday we watched susan rice on "meet the press" talk about what happened, i have had really one concern. did we do our best, did the secretary of state, hillary clinton, did the rest of them do their best to save the lives of someone they really cared about? they not only just knew the guy, chris stevens, they liked him a lot. did we do our best? this report, what does it tell us about that question? >> this report does not tell us anything new about that question, because all of the reports that preceded it, now, this is the eighth congressional investigation and you had the independent investigation, the review board from the state department, all reported that there was no way to save chris stevens and shaun smith from the initial attack when they were
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overtaken. they were killed in the initial attack on the state department mission there in benghazi. whether or not there was a way to have saved the other two americans who were not killed until about 5:00 the next morning local time, eight hours later, at the cia annex, is another question. but it's highly unlikely given how far away our assets were, how there was nothing prepositioned that in fact, various airlifts were on training missions or on rehab and had not -- were not even geared up for flight. so they weren't close enough. >> let me ask you about the earnest effort question. it's a little different. >> that's another question. >> were we sure, were the people in the white house, the president on down to secretary clinton, did they know chris stevens and the other fellow was dead when they stopped trying? if they didn't know they were dead when they stopped trying, why did they stop trying? >> they knew by 7:30 or so
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eastern when they started that white house meeting, they knew he was dead. they had not recovered his body. he had not been found yet at the hospital. that said, let me make a larger point. what this report gets into very good detail on, very rich detail, because they had so many more witnesses, they did get access to a lot of cia testimony. what they have reported here is incredible lack of understanding, misinformation, confusion, among top policy makers and a failure to understand what was happening on the ground even though there was real information coming. david petraeus, they had a drone with a camera that was actually prepositioned within an hour or so of the initial attack. he was watching in real-time later that night from home, a live stream. so they knew what was happening on the ground. obviously not who was responsible, but they had pretty good information, pretty good intelligence. they never anticipated the second attack, second wave of attacks at the other facility. and there was so much lack of
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understanding about that second facility and about what could happen, so they began to believe that it was really all over and it wasn't over. it was hardly over. that is the real failure. plus the fact they did not have an evacuation plan. they ended up relying on the gadhafi people. there is new information here, we should say, there's no smoking gun about hillary clinton. she is largely untouched by this. i think donald trump in his political attempts to pillory her for this after most americans saw her survive and in fact conquer for 11 hours last fall at these hearings, are going to fall flat. >> great reporting as always. thanks, andrea mitchell. i'm joined by democratic congressman javier becerra of california. you support hillary clinton and that's fine. you might make a great vice president, that's my opinion, because i like leadership people in the house. my question is, forget the
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hillary thing for a second. does it disturb you the united states president, president of the united states, and secretary of defense, a fine guy, leon panetta, issued an order to go try to save these people and eight hours later, nothing really had been done, they had a three-hour meeting arguing about god knows whatever, diplomatic niceties or whatever, nothing got done. orders were not carried out. does that bother you? >> chris, first, thanks for having me on. sure, it disturbs anyone that four americans died that you want to find every way possible to show that we could have saved them so we won't make the same mistake again. but i think after some seven, eight, nine investigations, i think it's become very clear we were limited, limited in time, limited in resources, limited in good communication and the result was the tragic death of four americans which hopefully we will learn from this, take the lessons and won't let it happen again. >> if you had somebody or any other american out there in the third world, tricky situation, there's a revolutionary country, and you heard they were just under attack, and there may be some people still alive there,
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wouldn't you do everything you could because isn't that part of our culture to go back and try to save our people, leave nobody behind, it's an old marine rule? what do you think happened in that three-hour meeting in the white house? they were ditherring around. i want to know when there's a screw-up, a snafu here, because the other two guys were killed rea later. maybe we could have saved them. >> i know you are trying to push, push, push to find out what happened. my understanding is the president did request that we take action. he did make -- >> it's called an order. it's called an order. he's commander in chief. when he gives an order it should be followed out. >> he gave the order. >> what happened? >> that's the problem. between the order being given and seeing the military that was on the ground try to move, lots apparently happened. i wish i could tell you that we knew the answer. eight investigations haven't been ail ble to give us a reaso
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why except for as i said before, resources, time was limited, confusion ensued, so this is the result. so again, let's learn from this lesson, let's put the resources where we need it so personnel are protected and make sure we are always making sure that if you will give service to this country, whatever part of the world, we will protect you. >> you have to sing for your supper a little bit besides giving us smart answers. have you been asked for any background information as a possible vetting procedure for the vice presidential nomination? >> chris, you probably know more than i do about the process. >> you guys, did you get asked for any information about yourself yet? >> no. no. >> okay. love that. direct answer. direct answer. i appreciate it. i couldn't get that last night from a cabinet member. thank you. we know you're not on the list yet. hope you are. i think you would be great. i like leaders. i like leaders and you're one. congressman becerra of california, head of the democratic caucus in the house. up next, donald trump is sounding an awful lot like the british who pushed for
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separation from europe. what would that mean for his presidency? i do think it means a lot. as much as he screwed up this campaign so far there is still a cause out there he's been tapping into. it's about nationalism, patriotism, economic nationalism and some anti-immigration feeling. we know that. he's talking to that. that's ahead. later, much more from turkey and the deadly terror attack. we will give you the latest update on casualties and motive and the whole mess. this is "hardball." one. real is making new friends. amazing is getting this close. real is annimal rescue. amazing is over twenty-seven thousand of them. there is only one ace where real and amazing live. seaworld. real. amazing
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the trans-pacific partnership is another disaster, done and pushed by special interests who want to rape our country, just the continuing rape of our country. that's what it is, too. it's a harsh word. it's a rape of our country. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was donald trump just moments ago in ohio using the word rape to describe what the trans-pacific partnership is doing to our country. earlier today, speaking in
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pennsylvania, trump knocked the leadership class he called it that worships globalism over americanism and said it was time to declare our economic independence. >> our politicians have aggressively pursued a policy of globalization, moving our jobs, our wealth and our factories to mexico and overseas. globalization has made the financial elite who donate to politicians very, very wealthy. i used to be one of them. i hate to say it but i used to be one. but it's left millions of our workers with nothing but poverty and heartache. >> similar frustrations seem to be animating the campaigns in britain and trump's rise. among them, fear of globalization, immigration, the loss of manufacturing jobs. we know all this. in fact, in the british vote, was that a sign of things to come in america politically? mike caputo, howard ford junior,
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visiting professor at the university of michigan school of public policy, former democratic congressman from tennessee and kathleen parker, very well written and understood syndicated columnist. i do think that if you listen to the voters in pennsylvania, listen to relatives if you got any up there, we have people on our show and our producers who know people up there, my brother knows people up there, they talk a lot like people from parts of england that don't like globaloney, if you will. they have nothing left but social security. they are afraid their kids will move away and never come back because there's nothing for them in places like scranton and erie. it looks like that vote can be very tricky for secretary clinton. your thoughts? >> i agree completely. there are very similar forces at work in both cases. you know, these people's concerns are perfectly legitimate as well. what's also i think at work is
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this sense of lost identity and i think part of what happened in britain and part of what's happening with the rise of donald trump is that they are promising essentially to reinstate, to sort of reinvigorate the identity, the nationalisticidentity in both cases. you can understand why that resonates with people, it's fading away, what their ideas of what the country are and the futures of their children. if you can create a case for if we pull out of britain or if we, you know, if we elect donald trump locally at least, then all of these things will be resolved and you know, people latch on to that because they are a little bit frightened by all these global changes that are taking place. globalization is at the root of it but i'm not sure the solution is to retreat and withdraw. >> but it's the same symptom. you were inside that campaign.
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do they understand, does mr. trump understand what he's appealing to here? >> absolutely. he's understood for quite some time, even before he was going to run for president when he was considering running for governor of new york he was talking about how buffalo, where i'm flying after this show -- >> classic example. >> absolutely. hollowed out by trade deals and nafta. >> what's left? >> in buffalo? a -- >> there used to be a blockbuster's video store. that's gone. there may be a diner. not always a diner left. there's nothing. >> in buffalo, we believe cleveland is ten years ahead of us. in cleveland they think that pittsburgh is ten years ahead of them. in fact, we are all ten years behind. it's detroit, it's toledo, all around the great lakes. >> how does the anger about illegal immigration fit into that? >> that also translates into jobs. they think that people who -- >> really? it's not cultural change or ethnic differences? >> there's a touch of the jobs message as well we have seen in the polling out there. there's no surprise, donald trump was in pittsburgh and northeast ohio today because
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that's where he's got to win. those are places where he has to win. >> how do you fight this if you're hillary clinton? how do you say it's wrong, it isn't that bad? they know it's not bad when you have nothing left but social security and medicare. >> you have to acknowledge it's bad and talk about ways you will bring new jobs and create new jobs whether it's infrastructure, finding ways to invest in -- >> trump says he will do infrastructure. >> you talk about what mrs. clinton has to do. the bigger role has been technology -- >> by the way, she now says she's against the trans-pacific trade agreement. that is an embarrassment? >> look, i'm for the tpp. >> is she really for it or against it? >> i don't know. >> you don't know snnchlgts? >> i think she wants to make it better. i take her at her word. >> you said you don't know. >> i don't know if she's for it. >> she's running for president. you are backing her. you don't take her word? >> no, no, i believe she's against it. >> really? she's always been -- bill clinton was for the deal. i heard him say it ralast year japan. >> she believes the bill can be
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improved. >> the gold standard she called it. >> the reason i believe it's the gold standard is that it helps keep china out of the backyard of -- >> why doesn't she think the gold standard is still the gold standard? >> she's had a change of opinion. >> was it politics? >> i'm sure it's probably the realities of seeing how people are living in states she's campaigning in. the technology and automation, so many things have contributed to the job losses. >> you're right. there's a reason why bernie and trump jumped on this. >> and done it well. >> tough to defend the center these days, right, mr. centrist? >> may i interject? >> sure. i forgot you for a second. >> i know. it happens. one of the thoughts i had while the other two gentlemen were talking is that one of the problems that hillary clinton has despite, in addition to her change of heart on these various trade issues -- >> aren't you kind. >> yes, i am. but is the fact that donald trump and i have not written favorably about him as you
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probably know, but he does have going for him the fact that he has actually built things. very few people actually build things anymore. hillary clinton certainly has built nothing. she's never employed people. and he can at least lay claim to having some greater understanding of how these multi-national ideals work. >> so darn true. lincoln built the trans-continental railroad in the middle of the civil war. eisenhower put the highway system together in the '50s for national defense reasons because he saw what happened in germany. he said why don't we have an autobahn. these guys are builders. instead he's talking about some mexican judge who is american. he's off his game. he's off his, what's the word, off his message. >> things have changed very much since last monday. absolutely it has. i think you will see the campaign that donald trump really deserves. >> a good campaign. >> absolutely. >> that will be more competitive, put it that way. the once and future trumper. >> the original glass ceiling
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breaker pat summitt who passed -- >> she died today? >> yes. >> nobody told me. she is great. >> one of the great ones. >> a leader. thank you. i have just been hit with that. thank you. come on, kathleen. she is a great woman. i do have some heart, you know. >> no, no, no. i was just waiting for you to forget me again. >> i will never forget you. kathleen parker, brilliant, brilliant, highly read, multi-newspapered person. has more papers than anybody in the business next to cal thomas. back after this.
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we continue to follow the breaking news out of turkey. a tragic story. when the associated press is now citing turkish officials reporting that 31 people have been killed in this suicide bombing attack at istanbul's
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ataturk airport. joining me is an expert on turkey with the organization foreign policy interrupted, sean henry, former executive assistant director of the fbi, president of crowd strike services and yira hack. thank you all. i want tyou to see as you take look at this situation, the first view of is we are watching today, bombers, people with weapons, suicide people, at the airport, why the airport, what's the pattern here? >> well, scenes like this, turkey has had so many terrorist attacks just within this last year but also since 2005 starting in july in the southeastern part of the country. i think the attack that happened at istanbul ataturk airport this evening happened at a high traffic time. a lot of flights going out, particularly international flights to africa and asia at that time. so whoever carried this out, it was clearly very well planned and it is a little unusual because i have to say, ataturk
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airport is a very secure airport. even before you get into the airport, vehicles are stopped and before you get into the airport, there is very high security, a high security perimeter that everyone has to go through. what it seems happened is that the attackers attacked the police cordon, then had suicide vests that did eventually explode but this was something that seems it was very well planned. >> let me ask about the attitude of arab people in the arab world, middle east and elsewhere. how do they look upon turkey, as the westernized country of the islamic world? what is the view? it's sort of like a hybrid in a sense, a modern country, part of europe, but also islamic. how do the people who live in the more third world arab world, how do they look upon this country, as the enemy, as an ally, what? >> i would say if you are not isis, you have always looked at turkey favorably because turkey has really struck that balance of a secular and islamic
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majority country. so you have turkey as the only muslim majority country as part of nato, making overtures to israel this week. that's not an accident that this attack happened right as turkey is trying to make inroads with more of europe and normalize relations with turkey. then you have the religious extremists and zealots who see everything turkey is and stands for as a threat to this idea of an islamic state or caliphate. >> i only have a minute now. tell me what the police aspect of this is, the catch the bad guys part of it. >> at this point this is really all about collection of intelligence, to look at further down the road, what might be coming. the intelligence communities globally will be sharing information with turkish authorities, the fbi has a legal attache in ankara and the fbi will assist any way they can in terms of forensics, crime scene evaluation, et cetera. identifying who these three terrorists are is critically important to identify who else
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they may have been in contact with, exploding their mobile devices, et cetera. that's a really important part to try to prevent any other attacks or disrupt anything else that is currently being planned. >> thanks so much to all of you. when we return, the politics of terror. let's talk about the impact of the istanbul attack and what it means for here in this country politically.
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welcome back to "hardball." the turkish red crescent is
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reporting at least 35 people are dead and more than a hundred injured, which suggests there will be a lot more listed as dead by late tonight. we're joined by the national correspondent for the nation magazine joan walsh. thank you all. so i think one thing we all wonder about is when something bad happens. john kerry said it's become almost daily. but look what happened, istanbul, orlando, brussels, san bernardino, paris. we used to say dallas and we knew what we meant. these have become landmark events. >> iconic events. >> now we're thinking, oh, istanbul, another attack. >> right. i think in a normal year, this might help republicans, because it's happening on president obama's watch. >> paris helped trump.
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>> it only helped trump in the republican primaries. and now what's happening, "the washington post" has a poll out today that shows people prefer her approach to terrorism -- >> 53-49. >> that's one number. but that's handling of orlando. they prefer her temperament towards orlando. they say 44-30-something that she would do a better job of preventing the next orlando. all this stuff that you would say would be tough for democrats, seems to be helping, not to be crude. >> and they're run to certain extent by events, look at 2008 before the economy crashed, john mccain didn't want to show up for a debate. >> suspend the campaign. >> he was gone. how you react to tragic
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events -- >> it's important. this might be an example of hillary clinton's ability to lead and donald trump's ability to lead. he tweeted we need to stop terrorism, going back to a ban on muslims, going back to legislation that a majority of the country doesn't really support. >> you got to have an update. first of all, muslims and dangerous countries. maybe you listen and say, until we have it sorted out, i don't think we'll have it sorted out in our lifetime. >> again, it goes back to the idea of, do you want a president to be talking this way? this gives the american people a way to say, this is what your president would act like if we had a terror attack. donald trump will eight, we got
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to close the borders, but until then, we'll judge people by their religion. >> it's a pattern that's begun. i think paris did affect this country a lot. san bernardino did. whenever there's a mix of things, with the orlando gay club, was there something psychological with this guy that had nothing to do with the excuse he gave, where someone is just not happy in this country. >> the orlando case is a classic case of that. the key here, there will be more. it seems inevitable. with trump, he's largely disqualified himself with a lot of the electorate because of his temperame temperament. >> 2/3 of the people say, who is qualified to be president, it's still close. how do you explain that? >> it's partisanship in the united states. every race is going to be close.
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a lot of people thought after orlando, this is going to help trump. it came out the next morning, that he was right. people want not just strength, they want someone who is steady. >> what should hillary do in this situation? >> i think she should talk about how complicated it is, and the things that we're doing to limit isis. we've made progress. it's not great. >> okay, thank you, i'm being told, thank you all. much more ahead when "hardball" returns after this. ra single pa. so guys with ed can... take viagra when they need it. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain or adempasĀ® for pulmonary hypertension. your blood pressure could drop to an unsafe level. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you
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that's "hardball" for now. our coverage of the terror attack in turkey continues now in "all in with chris hayes." tonight on "all in" -- terror at the istanbul airport. tonight, why turkey is so crucial to the future of europe, the middle east, and counterterrorism. how the candidates are reacting here at home, and what the white house is saying today about progress against isis. plus, congressman keith ellison on the latest explanation of donald trump's muslim ban, and eight congressional committees later, republicans finally face the facts on benghazi. >> there are

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