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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  June 30, 2016 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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all the time in the world, can we really say, that doing it all in one day might not be a better system than what we've got. that does it for us tonight. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnel. >> were they worried if they left the window open longer, donald trump might have thought to run there instead of here? >> i was thinking scott brown. >> there you go. poor donald trump. and i mean poor donald trump, if he's so rich, why has he done so why has he done so many desperate things to try to make money and trying to raise campaign money now from people who are not allowed by law to contribute to american's campaigns because they are, you know, not american. >> my wife and kids wanted me to run.
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>> they're sore losers. >> in some ways it's like i'm running against two prartys. >> that could be a mix in the plan up there to get ready to attack. >> don't sit here and tell me, steve, i have no reason to be concerned about donald trump. >> we talked about utah mike lee out today with sort of die tried against donald trump. >> he accused my best friend's father of aspiring to kill jfk. >> i am your father. >> there's not going to be a move, that's out of the question. >> they signed a pledge that broke their word in my opinion, they should never be allowed to run for public office again. >> at some point, you have to do more than tweet and speak, probably to win an election.
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>> i think bernie sanders. >> i'm going to do everything that i can to see that donald trump is defeated. >> this is the last word on campaign 2016. don flald trump has a problem with money, a big problem, poor, poor donald trump. it's the same problem he's always had with money. he doesn't have it. poor donald trump. that is why with 130 days left in the came, the republican presidential nominee still has not released a single tax return and he never will release a single tax return because tax returns would just reveal how big of a problem donald trump really has. tax returns could prove how much he's been lying about how rich he is. it has already proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he does not have the $10 billion in wealth that he claims to have. tax returns could provide the
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proof he doesn't even have the 3 billion or so that some estimates grant him. tax returns might prove that he's not close to being a billionaire. here is something that real billionaires don't do -- >> any final words of wisdom for those of us who are going to attend the trump institute. >> i think it's important to attend. you're doing to learn a lot in the seminars, you're going to learn a lot from the institute about the institute. another thing you're going to meet a lot of interesting people. it's a great place to meet people. they're sort of like you, smart, intelligences, in some cases they're beautiful, good looking, you'll meet a lot of people at the seminar that are really spectacular people. >> when is the last time you saw real billionaire, they do not do real infomercials for fake
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institutes designed to get you to part with your money to learn the secrets about how to become a billionaire. donald trump did that infomercial and put his name on so-called institute because he needed the money, that's why he did it. he wasn't doing it to help anybody. he didn't help anyone. the trump institute was a separate household. donald trump owned university. it was a thing he simply sold his name to like most of the things that have his name on it. but the students of the trump institute were fraudulently led to believe that donald trump would personally be choosing their teachers. the "new york times" reports, they copyrighted lessons were plajerized. that was all trump. billionaires much of the trump
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institute guide was stolen called "real estate masty system" the woman who wrote the book told the "new york times" she had been hired after responding to an ad she found on craig's list and the materials she used to right. she laz no idea that it had been plajerized. after writing the book, that woman actually attended a trump institute seminar and was appalled. she told the times, "it was like i was in sleez america. it was all smoke and mirrors. >> i'm self funding, it's so important.
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i was in iowa a few weeks ago, i said to the people i feel so foolish, these people want to give me millions and millions of dollars and it's sort of like anti -- >> his web site has always had a >> his web site has always had a big contribute button that you can hit big front page of his web site. now donald trump is desperately soliciting campaign contributions, begging for contributions from lobbiest, from bankers, from anyone who could possibly give him a contribution and from everyone who he promised he would never ask.
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and donald trump was caught this week soliciting contributions from people who are not legally allowed to contribute to campaigns. if foreigners living in foreign countries were allowed to contribute to american presidential campaigns, you would think that donald trump would try to make that illegal. of course he doesn't have to because it already is illegal, but he, of course, doesn't know it. several members of the british parliament received e-mails from donald trump this week begging for illegal contributions because the trump campaign has the same problem that donald trump has always had, not enough money. donald trump said last week, he was going to convert the money that he lent to his campaign into pure donations to the campaign so if the campaign would never have to pay him back for the loans. but he hasn't done that and this has a lot to do with why donald trump's campaign is struggling to raise money.
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if you make a contribution to the donald trump campaign tonight, you have absolutely no guarantee that donald trump will not actually use your money for campaign. donald trump might just use your money to contribute the campaign money back to himself. he might himself back the loans he made to the campaign with loans he contributed. big donors are sitting on the sidelines waiting to make sure if they do contribute to the trump campaign, they won't simply be putting their money directly into donald trump's personal file. and still, donald trump knows that. he knows that's why they're waiting and still donald trump refuses to file the form with the sec that would indicate those loans have been converted to contributions so the trump campaign is virtually poverty stricken.
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the campaign can't afford to run tv ads while the clinton campaign is running $26 million in campaign ads. so the trump campaign continues to do the only thing it can do. put donald trump out there on the stage and the rally where he says the things that the people who already support him want to hear. >> i have guys out there and they really soar losers, if you think about it. just remember this, they signed a pledge saying they will abide, saying, they will back the candidate of the party and now they sit back and the pledges out there and the press doesn't even go out there on them on that. they broke the word, in my opinion, what they did was disgraceful. >> how about not being allowed to run for public office if you say broke your word to students,
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students who you took money from at the trump institute and trump university. how about not being allowed to run for president if you've been accused of fraud in federal courts from coast to coast because of the money you took at trump university. no nominee for the president has ever ever come close to feeling sorrier for himself that poorer little donald trump. >> you know, when you have guys like kristol who's been calling on me for two years. it was a rough primary they got beat up. they went after me, too, we beat them up and now they don't want to endorse. you know, it's almost in some ways like i'm running against two parties. >> how did this happen? well, mike lee, you explain it. it's one out of eight senate republicans who has not endorsed donald trump and gives donald trump the feeling that he is running against two parties. >> we can go through the facts that he's made some statements
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that some have identified correctly as religiously intolerant. we can get into the fact that wildly and popular in my state in part because my state consist of people who are members of religious minority church. >> sounds like poor donald trump is going to be running against two parties all the way to election day. joining us now stuart stevens, republican strategist and the author of the new novel, the innocent have nothing to fear. and jean robinson for the washington post and msnbc. sir, i'm going to hold it the whole time. we'll get a big wide shot, where the book is there, you're there, leave it there. >> we'll get a half. >> watch that amazon number just go sky high.
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so, mike lee, doesn't sound like he's coming on board any time soon. donald trump running against two parties, that's the sensation he's going to have all the way to election day. >> i love mike lee these days. look, donald trump is getting 74% of republicans. to be a credible candidate, democratic republican, you have to get 90% plus of your own party or you're really just not in the game. 50% of the party says it likes someone elsenominee. trump won with more votes than any republican has, but it's also true he got a smaller percentage of any nominee, democratic republican october votes to cast. he should be about the business pouring the love on republicans, not saying you have to follow me, you're not alien ating them. but he's not doing a good job.
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he was at 82% and he threw out to 74. he's headed in the wrong direction. >> donald trump, when he goes out there on the rally stage, he feeds off that crowd and he uses the same material over and over again, but i patiently wait for him to say something that might appeal to a voter he doesn't already have in his pocket. and you can listen from one end of the rally to the other, usually there's not a single line in there designed to appeal to someone who is already voting for trump. >> with the money first, next caveat, probably can't get around to all of his golf courses, i'm so sorry for him. . people keep saying when is he going to pivot, when is he going to become a real general
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election candidate. he's not going to, he can't. he doesn't know how. he does what he does. he's not going to change. this is what the republican party too, frankly, to it's discredit. this is what they're stuck with and this is what they're going to have to go with in november. >> good news for hillary clinton, this is one of those four candidate polls, hillary clinton at 42%, donald trump at 31. gary johnson at 5, jill stein at >> good news for hillary clinton, this is one of those four candidate polls, hillary clinton at 42%, donald trump at 31. gary johnson at 5, jill stein at 4. the libertarians made it in 48 states at the time. the green party might not be actually available to voters in every state. but certainly including gary johnson in these polls makes a lot of sense to me, since so many republicans are looking for an alternative to trump and they'll lean more and more in the direction. >> absolutely.
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i speak to a lot of self described republicans at what has happened and would happen in their nominating process this year, who cannot vote for donald trump and who are looking for an alternative and i think many of them are quite likely to go with johnson. i think it's right to when we look at these polls, to look at it -- at them with the libertarian party included. >> another republican senator, not with trump, nevada's said, today, i'm opposed to his campaign. he did a lot of damage. it's difficult for him as far as i'm concerned to recover from his previous comments. i'll give him a chance, at this point, i have no intentions of voting for him. we're noticing that in that group, there's a certain discussed.
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and it -- they don't need time to think about it. these are people who, you know, have a serious. >> you have to know what your belief system is. i actually fine nonjudgmental. >> yes. >> but they know where they are. and they don't want to affirm someone like donald trump because he's so -- well, really, i think american values, but to their personal values. >> he specified today in his statement, but it is interesting to see that you can see a mormon political reaction. >> i also think they're using to standing against a larger majority.
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to have the peer pressure to them is nothing new. and they're going to dealing with this all their lives. and i think that gives them a lot of sort of intestinal -- >> having covered all of these politicians and feeling that romney, i've got to say, i don't feel a bit of surprise in their reaction. >> you know, not at all. i mean, just speaking circulating, as you pointed out, their religious minority, this is a man vilifies a religious minority and it's just getting started. they can't -- that's just wrong, i think, to mitt romney and to -- and to a lot of people i talk to. it's just wrong. >> gene robinson, thank you very much for joining us tonight. stuart going to need you in the war room tonight if you'll grace us. we've got possible vice presidential discussions coming up about which -- what we're looking at on each ticket, democrat and republican. and there's some breaking news on the vp search for donald trump, a new name has been
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confirmed tonight on the short list. actually, they only have a short list. there is no long list because there's not a long list of names who are willing to do it. and the meeting between bill clinton and loretta lynch of the phoenix airport is coming up. fall in love with a new daily fiber. new mirafiber from the makers of miralax. it's the only fiber that supports regularity with dailycomfort fiber. so unlike others, mirafiber is less likely to cause unwanted gas. love your fiber. new mirafiber. 4 by 4 those who jump start the weekend.
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nbc news has just confirmed that the trump campaign is vetting former house speaker newt from vice presidential nomination. that comes from a source knowledgeable with the vp vetting process. it was just this past sunday that he was saying he wasn't aware of being vetted for the job. the question is, is anyone at the trump campaign actually familiar with a real vetting process for anything?
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up next, who else are the presidential campaigns vetting for vp. with advil liqui-gels, you'll ask what body aches? what knee pain? what sore elbow? what joint pain? advil liqui-gels are so fast, they make pain a distant memory nothing works faster stronger or longer than advil liqui-gels the world's #1 choice what pain? advil. ♪
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it's here, but it's going by fast. the opportunity of the year is back: the mercedes-benz summer event. get to your dealer today for incredible once-a-season offers, and start firing up those grilles. lease the cla250 for $299 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. in addition to the great news tonight that newt gingrich is in fact being vetted to be the vp running mate. chris christie is on donald trump's short list. virginia senator cane is on running list. today politico he accepted more than $160,000 in gifts during his time as lieutenant governor and governor. this comes in the same way the supreme court nullified former republican donald's convictions of accepting gifts.
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he did follow all of virginia's state rules on financial disclose sure. but is the possible echo just too much to carry into presidential campaign. and when is the last time the attorney general of the united states met with the spouse of someone under investigation by the fbi and the justice department? well, we actually know, the last time was monday when loretta lynch met with bill clinton in a private section of an arizona airport. join us now, national correspondence at 10:00 a.m. here on msnbc. jersey boy, on the short list, now, it was reported that chris christie couldn't past the vetting of the romney campaign to actually even be in the running.
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that's before bridge gait and that's before his problem. this week it's revealed he was using private e-mail that was never turned over to investigators what are the chances of chris christie ending up on this ticket and helping the ticket, in any way. >> i think it's a small probability. but you would say a year ago, what were the ods that donald trump was the nominee. chris christie announced his intentions to run for president a year ago. he has the bridge gate baggage, he also has the same baggage that senator kain has he went to king of jordon on the meal ticket.
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he enjoyed games in dallas with jones, the owner of the dallas cowboys. i think he's offering a lot to the ticket as vp. he may bring some stuff behind the scenes, there's a lot of baggage with that guy, a lot. >> the only way he gets on the ticket, is who else looks like this. there's nobody else. >> he gets in there by locking newt ggingrich. >> i think newt still has an over chris christie in that it does see the thing he wants, to the extent he wants system rational right now is somebody with governing experience. he's not popular enough in new jersey to help carry that state. he's got all of this baggage and he doesn't bring washington experience. i think he may want it really badly, i don't see him getting there. >> on the democratic side, tim kain, you know, i've always been wondering if he's the best choice for a bunch of reasons. he's not an exciting choice for anybody on the democratic side, now has this echo with mcdonald on the gifts thing, which the supreme court said, it's legal, do you really want someone who has all of that -- in that? >> i would think that if i was
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secretary clinton, i would not. you know, there are too many questions that keep dogging her in terms of the way people campaign against her in terms of ethics that you want to find someone who is sterling clean person that's bringing integrity and no questions of ethics at all. i would think no, that's just mine opinion. >> when you're looking for a vice presidential running mate, what you do you're suppose to look at yourself in the mirror and say what is my biggest flaw in the section of the voters i'm most challenged with. if you're barack obama and you're concerned this sort of novel black candidate, you pick somebody from pennsylvania who is joe biden who is in every man. if you're hillary clinton and your biggest problem is inauthentic paw, you don't pick somebody who is a long time paul who now has this pall sort of hanging over him sort of political, you know, the kind of gifting and the kind of thing that happens in washington that makes him look a lot like
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washington. i am with you as being someone who fixes a brand problem and doesn't come with this long-time political baggage. >> let's listen to what was said about her meeting with hillary clinton. >> our conversation was primarily social and about our travels. there was no discussion of any matter pending before the department or any matter pending before any other body. there was no question of benghazi, no discussion of the state department e-mails by way of example. >> i talked to a couple of former federal prosecutors today. thought it was terrible judgment to have that meeting at that time. >> you know, i sort of wonder what either of them were thinking. and it does help feed the narrative against the clintons that they just do things that don't make sense, they're not looking at what the optics are to each other or the rest of the country. at this time when everybody was just looking, republicans are looking, benghazi, benghazi, and you've got this investigation going on, why bill clinton would decide to hop across the tarmac
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into that plane just defies rational. >> i get why he would. i get why he wouldn't be terribly sensitive to where the lines were. but a federal prosecutor and attorney general having that meeting with the spouse of someone who is under investigation by that department, i don't know prior to this week when that happened last time. >> i mean, this is the second campaign in a row, which bill clinton has been most unhelpful. >> concentrate on the loretta lynch side of it, i am very surprised at her jum. >> -- judgment. >> she may have felt some obligation. i think it was a judgment in the moment. it was not the right judgment to make. >> thank you both for joining us. up next, in the "war room" the clinton campaign might be running against two fronts at the same time just like the trump campaign. one coat, yes!
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time for tonight's war room, the war room's tonight are stairing at nate silver's calculation that hillary clinton has a 79.2% chance of winning the presidential election. but the clinton war room has more to think about donald trump. they've told mpr, i talk to bernie, bernie is going to endorse. chris hayes asked bernie sanders
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about that. >> is joe biden telling the truth, is this a loose interpretation of what you said? >> joe and i talked about three weeks ago. as i said, right now my hope is that we can reach an agreement on some very important issues and i can go forward to the millions of people who supported me and say, look, this is where we're going to go as a country. i hope it happens as of this moment. we're not there quite yet. >> with 130 days left for the campaign war room, joining us tonight veteran of martin o'malley presidential campaign war room and corin how is the bernie, hillary merger working? >> it sounds like listening a little bit to the interview earlier today. it seems like it's coming along, right. i think right now bernie has proven to be a strong advocate
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for making sure that the party's platform is a progressive one. look, i think if i were in clinton's war room, i would do a -- continue doing what she was doing last week, which was talking about expanding social security, talking about college affordability, really reaching out to bernie sanders supporters in a respectful and genuine way and not stopping there, right, just talking about minimum wage and all these other things that bernie sanders talked about during the primary and it really resinated. at the same time, she has to draw -- continue to draw a strong contrast against donald trump. so if she continues to do that, i think that she'll get to a place that's needed while bernie sanders is still moving forward and making sure that the platform is progressive for the convention. >> concentration these days on running mate, which we've talked about. there's the other factor that people can get up in the stage with you. we saw elizabeth warren. >> and donald trump.
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>> we're going to see president obama get on the stage with hillary clinton. we'll see joe biden get on the stage with hillary clinton. trump campaign, who do they have, president obama and a picture of who does the trump campaign put out there against that guy, do you put george w. bush up there, i mean, he's not going to do. i mean, who could go out there and republicans or anyone would get up there? >> i would have said mike dicta, but apparently he's backing away. he has a problem campaigning with a lot of the senate candidate, he's for 45% tariff. he's after bernie sanders. i don't know how that's going to work. nor does trump seem interested in it. i think the convention is going to be trump, trump, trump. >> as i said, we're going to see president obama out there with hillary clinton on a given day,
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joe biden on a given day, trump is going to attack the person who stood beside hillary clinton, instead of the person who attacking. >> we have a deep bench, which is more than what we can say about donald trump for sure. he doesn't have the temperament and nobody wants to stand next to him because he hasn't changed. people are waiting for him to change and he's not going to do that. the thing that really blows my mind, okay, he won 13,300,000 of the votes in the republican primary. where are you going to get that 52 million people that you need to get in addition, right, to win the general election, where is that going to come from if you're still talking to the same people that you were in a primary. and that's, you know, that's just, you know, baffles, baffles. >> i've got to get your reaction to the trump campaign vetting vice presidential nominees. you've been in the vetting, i want to ask you about the report that chris christie failed the romney vet.
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we'll do that in the next segment and try to solve it in the next segment. does the trump campaign know how to vet. all of that is going to come after we take a break. >> thank you very much for joining us tonight. coming up, paul ryan now says that the house will actually vote on a bill to make it harder for terrorists to get guns. one of the democrats who was in that house sit-in, will join us. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, and you're talking to your doctor about your medication... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage.
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strong hold of raka in syria. they rented an apartment on this busy street, paying for three months up front in cash, adding a security door, keeping the windows shut and curtains drawn. >> inside a strong chemical smell, according to one neighbor, turkish officials said the explosives used were military grade. >> neighbors say the bomb squad, forensics and special forces have all been here. >> one of more than a dozen raids across instanbul and the costal city. up next, sit-in demanding the vote on gun laws, will join us, as it appears now, house speaker paul ryan will allow some kind of vote. ♪
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until 9/11, bombs were the weapon of choice for the choice of terrorists looking to harm america. 95% of terror deaths that took place in the united states resulted from gunfire. >> that was at 4:19 a.m. last thursday during the revolt in the house of representatives. now comes the next step forward towards legislation on gun control. the sit-in protest by house democrats rattled the house of representatives to the point that paul ryan has decided to finally bring gun legislation to a vote. the announcement was made on a house republican conference call, according to an nbc news source who was also on that call. republican plan is to bring an antiterrorism legislation package to the floor and include
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a provision to prevent suspected terrorists from buying guns. joining us now is congressman david, one of the organizers of the 25-hour sit-in in the house of representatives. thank you very much for joining us tonight. we don't yet know the details. >> thanks for having me. >> thanks. we don't yet know the details of what paul ryan is bringing to a vote. i want us listen to what he said after you conducted that sit-in. let's listen to this. >> this is nothing more than a publicity stunt, that's point number one, point number two, is that this bill was defeated in the united states senate. number three, we're not going to take away a citizen's due process rights. we're not going to take away a citizen's constitutional rights without due process, that was already defeated in the senate. this is not a way to try and bring up legislation. >> so congressman, it looks like the pressure you put on has
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worked to the point of moving paul ryan, at least to bringing something to a vote. >> well, i mean, we did the sit-in because we really wanted to break this long jab and force to bring two bills to the floor. universal background checks and watch list from being able to buy a gun. it gal ve niezed our caucus but people all across the country. yesterday we had a national day of action, dozens of places across the country where people added for this demand of responsible gun safety. it will depend on what bill, the speaker brings to the floor. if it's the corn-in bill it doesn't solve the problem, it creates a process which will not work which will give you the right to arrest somebody. it will allow those on the list to still buy a gun. look, we want to vote. we want vote on two bills that will provide for universal background checks and keep guns out of the hands of terrorist. you should be too dangerous to go into a gun store and buy whatever guns you want.
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we'll keep this up and keep the pressure on. this is not just the democratic caucus. this is the american people. 95% of the american people support universal background checks, 85% closing the tariff gap. this is what american people want done and they can't why congress doesn't understand and i hope the speaker understands that now and he brings to the floor bills that will solve the problem so we can do something about the epidemic of gun violence in this country. >> you said the magic words that paul ryan is trying to mute, we're dpoings to keep this up, we're going to keep this up. we've never seen a revolt like we saw in the house of representatives. paul ryan is the very first speaker who has had to deal with somebody like this. we've seen how far you've moved him in a week. what we don't know is how far
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you'll be able to move him to get to a position where there's a bill that you can vote for affirmatively in the house. but that resolve to keep pushing, will the democrats be able to hang on to that in the house of representatives? >> absolutely. i've never seen the kind of unity in our caucus. you know, all throughout the night, i stayed there for the whole 26 hours. but we had colleagues come in, and speak very passionately, you know, every member of congress has constituents who have been touched by the gun violence, have spoken to families who have lost loved ones. we have eve seen it and we're tired where we're having moments of silence, where we say nothing and do nothing and we go about business as usual. many of us felt like enough is enough. we had to do something to break this log jam. it galvanized our caucus and demanding that we take responsible gun safety legislative and put it on the floor and pass it. if they have arguments as why they're against background checks why they think it's okay to have those on the terror watch list, come to the floor, make those arguments, vote the way you think is right and be
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accountable for that vote. but we simply cannot any longer do nothing and just continue to have these moments of silence while the country is ravaged by gun violence and expecting congress to do something about it and we don't. we're going to use whatever tools we have at our disposal to continue to force the house republican leadership to bring up bills that will actually respond to this problem and help reduce gun violence in this country. >> thank you very much for joining us from rhode island tonight and please come back to have reaction to specifically whatever speaker ryan actually proposes once we see that, thank you very much. >> absolutely. thanks for having me. >> still ahead. finally, we'll get to ask stuart stevens, did the romney campaign actually vet chris christie and reject him for vice president based on the vetting? i love that my shop is part of the morning ritual around here. people rely on that first cup and i wouldn't want to mess with that.
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we better get smart and we
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better get tough, but we're not going to have much of a country left.
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we better get smart and we better get tough, but we're not going to have much of a country left. >> we're going to have a strong border and we're going to have a wall and mexico will pay for that wall. >> what do you think about water boarding, i like it a lot. you have to fight fire with fire.
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>> i refuse to be politically correct. >> i want to take our country back. we want to make america great again. we want to make america first. it's going to be first. >> the silly hat candidate is the candidate the political fiction writers never imagined. that's what i thought, any way. until i read the new book written before trump's candidacy, although it seems to be channelling the trump candidacy. this is stuart stevens second novel. this one is entitled the innocent have nothing to fear. stuart, what i love about this is that it proves me wrong about political fiction writing. i've been saying to basically all the movie writers, tv writers, everyone is talking about, you know, political fiction and picture shows. i've been saying you can't pitch anything until the dust settles on this trump thing, it's completely -- it's made fiction writing impossible and then i pick up this.
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you've done it. you've done it. >> well, thanks. listen, i think the fault lines in our politics have always been, recent politics have been very apparent. in this book i pause ted make it more credible, could emerge. in fact, we didn't need that, apparently, because donald trump has emerged. but trump, you know, just as he was a democrat a few years ago, i think he's just feeling this and speaking to it, how much he believes it, i have no idea. >> and the -- the thing i talked about earlier is the vice presidential selection. in double down, they had passages which i read on this show when it came up, yes, indeed, chris christie was vetted by your campaign, the romney campaign for vp. he did not submit everything you asked for, including tax returns, material that standard is asked for.
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and eventually the romney campaign just said, we could never take this guy. he didn't get through your vetting process. >> you know, vetting was handled by beth meyers, she had a whole separate group of people who were in a locked room. i took the position by having gone through this in 2000 with governor bush, i really didn't want to see any of the vetting. there's no need for me to see it. and -- >> you would be told the results. you would be told this one is -- this one is not -- >> it was no need for me to know. i said i know more about this than you did. >> what i learned was i read in double down, to be honest. >> okay. >> you know, this stuff tends to leak, the best way not to have any hint, you might have linked something is not to know it. you know, i said, look, if there's something you need to talk to me about, ask, but,
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otherwise i don't need to know anything. >> i never saw any of the vetting on any of the candidates and as far as i know. >> you know who believes you right now, many and no one else. two things, i know you, i know the process you just described and i know the value of being able to say, i don't know, in certain situations like this. there's a huge value to it than if you haven't been in it, you're not going to understand it. getting back to -- getting back to this fiction, your trump character is not utterly insane like -- >> the real donald trump. >> he's not a pathological liar, if he's better spoken, actually the sentences are sentences. i would say of all the characteristics of trump we could have never anticipated, it is the utter incoherence. we would all write it, that these are coherent statements that are filled with stuff that
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you might disagree with it. but you can see the appeal that they're filled with. >> when i think of donald trump's line, i think of a pen ball machine, these are bouncing around and will say this and that without any sort of coherent thought as what it's put together. you know, i don't think that that in a novel is credible because, you know, i wanted to dark comedy push things to the edge. i thought it was important that could be rooted in what could imagine happening. i think donald trump is over the top. it's like that moment we attacked. if you and i were working on the show. what if the guy attacked the pope, right, no.
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it's an angry country but who does it trust? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews from washington. the faces are angry out there. you ask people what they think of the way the country's going, ask what they think of politicians, of the congress, and you get answered with a snarl. you look at trump, the guy out there challenging the system and all you see are the people hitting back at him. big business, u.s. chamber of commerce, and now organized labor, too. the big question is jobs. why we're losing the good ones, the jobs that let a father raise a family, get his kids into school, get a decent, even a short one, a vacation come summer.

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