re those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. even well fitting dentures let in food particles. just a few dabs of super poligrip free is clinically proven to seal out more food particles so you're more comfortable and confident while you eat. so it's not about keeping my dentures in, it's about keeping the food particles out. try super poligrip free. you don't shoot. don't shoot! don't shoot! >> protesters took to the streets in several cities overnight to call for an end to police brutality. capping an emotional and deadly week in the u.s. good morning, i'm joy reed. in a moment we will have the later on the fatal shootinged of five police officers in in dallas. we begin with protesters across the country sparked by killing of two black men by law enforcement. this week, the protests were
mostly peaceful. in rochester, new york, people were arrested. in texas this morning, we are learning new details about micah johnson, the army veteran police say opened fire on dallas police officers thursday night, killing five and injuring seven others. msnbc's craig melvin joins me from dallas. what do we know about the shooter this morning, craig? we are not hearing craig. i think we are having problems with his microphone so we will go back to him. let's come to the panel. i bring -- we are not going to do that. let's go to the men sitting here with me. we don't know a tremendous a lot about micah johnson, the alleged shooter in dallas. but we do know a couple of things that we got from police, the allegation that he was angered by the shooting of african-american by police officers so this is not a usual
occurrence. but just piecing that together, eugene, would that indicate this was somebody who probably acted by himself? >> you know, it's hard to say, i think. the police have to track down all of the leads. i think it's pretty clear you have somebody here with a mental health issue and that is lethal combination with this sick gun culture we are where guns are so readily available and capacity of bringing a war to downtown dallas. >> let's stick with that. one of the things that hapg happened during the standoff with police you had another licensed gun owner with ar-15 strapped on him and wearing fatigueses and identified by police as the suspect. he was not the guy. he was the wrong person. how much does this open-carry and the gun culture where people are openly brandishing firearms? the nra wants done. they want more people brandishing firearms in these situations. how much harder does that make police's job? >> i think my plea is to try to make this cross-partisan and i
understand that people are advocating by i find partisan politics unhelpful in this. you have legitimate gun owners who hunt, who live in rural places and not pulling guns on people. we have an urban place where guns are flowing and what do we do about that and how do you get solutions to that are practical? >> phillip, in this situation somebody possibly mentally disturbed, obviously, willing to do great harm and armed with as high powered a civilian rifle you can get, meaning a dozen trained police officers couldn't stop him and all of the police in that plaza could not stop him. i'm wondering if that is one of the arguments that people could make for having at least some form of gun reform? >> it absolutely can be an argument that people will make an an argument that law enforcement has been making. now remember very recently we had the leaders in law enforcement movement where you had police chiefs who were very senior in major cities all over
the united states calling for an end to high capacity magazines for the proliferation of particularly long guns. something i think is really important. the argument on another side is that good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns. as soon as there is a bad guy with a gun, everyone with a gun is a suspect. that is part of the issue and part of the terror and the nightmare and god forbid that law enforcement be targeted. everybody is a suspect. and everybody is the enemy in that situation. >> if somebody in that crowd had been trying to be the sort of proverbial good guy with a gun, i think a lot of people say it's in the theater of their mind thinking they would be the hero that would end this mass shooting, if somebody in that crowd had taken out a gun and started attempting to fire in the direction of where they thought the shots were coming from, they would have become a target of law enforcement. no way some, quote/unquote, good guy with a gun could somehow help police in that situation and made it worse, i'm assuming. >> hard to be category cal.
a guy was wearing body armor and firing on repeatedly and -- >> and was military trained. >> question. cross-politically in urban america, this is distorting policing and it's poisoning relationships. it's complicating the interactions the cops have with the community and we can't just shut it off. we don't have rational gun control. the cops are filling the void. it's totally absurd. if you're overseas when this happens the western world stops and say no matter how many problems we have in our country, look at this gun sickness they have in america and this is a week where that is just on display. >> you also then had in the case of minnesota in the case of philando castile another lawful gun owner doing nothing wrong at the time but the reactions police have to a person with a gun. we have to admit are actually
informed by race, right? there is a different reaction that you have that police will often have to a black man with a gun? >> that's right. the reasonable person standard is incredibly difficult to apply. so, i mean, there's a number of situations you see it. in dallas if you have somebody who decides they want to try to protect law enforcement by taking aim and law enforcement draws down on them, well, don't they have a right to self-defense at that moment? if someone breaks into a home you have a right to protect yur in you urs yourself. all kinds of absurdist things our laws are not to keep us safe. >> we had debate whether or not there should be study whether or not we are taking good enough care of our returning veterans in terms of mental health. this was a person that, you know, is now dead. so he'll never be able to be interrogated about it but had no
prior arrests or no criminal history and nothing to stop him from buying the weapons he had on him and no way to stop him other than not selling that kind of gun? >> the idea we have this backward and we are using the police and overusing the police and relying on the police and default setting and police should be used to things that are rarely needed. we need mental health reform and gun reform and need to treat each other like equals. we have, in chicago this week, they passed a law under 21 you can't buy tobacco. however young kids 18 to 20 can walk out apparently and get access to extraordinary levels of firearms and use those firearms. where are we as a country? >> yes. >> and we have to own that violence. there are people being killed in our country. >> we should not forget that the nra fought the attempt to ban even armor piercing bullets which in the light of what happened in dallas is a chilling thought that you would have an organization that would be not opposed to the sale of something
that could pierce the body armor of police officers. eugene and phillip will be back later in the show. now let me bring in msnbc's craig melvin and tremain lee who is in dallas. gentlemen, good morning. >> joy, good morning to you. we are learning a bit more about this 25-year-old shooter, micah johnson. let's start with the associated press reporting that just crossed the wires roughly an hour ago. the a.p. reporting that this goodman was discharged from the army after claims he sexually assaulted a female soldier and that is coming from the associated press. we are working to try to confirm that reporting but so far, not been able to do that. j they say he was not convicted of any criminal defense and received an honorable discharge from the army in april of 2015
and at the time discharged he was in the army's ready reserve. according to source if he was discharged for anything less than an honorable discharge he would not have been able to join or even serve in the reserves. that is new information on the shooter. we could also tell you that after some conversations with neighbors, again, when he enrolled in the army he listed mesquite, texas, which is 25 minutes east of where we sit right now. he listed mesquite as his home. there were neighbors who told our jake rascon who saw him periodically in his uniform engaging what is combat tactics in his backyard, perhaps doing some training. yesterday, we saw officials hauling things out of his home. he lived in this home with his mother for at least the last two years. among the things that they found, kevlar vests, more ammunition, diary, a journal of sorts in which he, again, talked
about combat training. we heard from officials yesterday that during the actual shooting, he was mobile and by that, we mean initially there was this thought that because of the sheer number of shots that were being fired and the directions of those shots, that there had to have been more one gunman. yesterday, officials said that wasn't the case, that this shooter, armed with two guns, a long gun, a semiautomatic weapon, something akin to an ak-47, he used that and he used a pistol as well. but i was going from floor-to-floor. he started on the ground here, he ambushes one officer. he then runs a block or two and manages to get into a building and goes from floor-to-floor and is essentially picking off these officers from high above the scene here on the ground. joy? >> very quickly before i go to tremain, a statement out of police that he allegedly told the negotiators at some point
that he was there to kill white people and white police officers. do we know if there is recordings of that audio and where is the story coming from and where is the verification for that? >> what is an excellent question. so far, no recordings. i know that question has been asked. i don't know if we are going to get those recordings because, again, there was no 911 call. this is coming from the police who were engaged in a number of hours, several hours of negotiating with him inside this parking garage that is behind me. so i don't know if we ever get that. we do know that one of our producers talked to a woman who said he was his aunt yesterday on the phone. his aunt said that this idea that he was crazy would be something that should be dismissed. she said that he wasn't crazy, that he was just fed up, that he had had enough and that he had been motivated, in part, by what he had seen in louisiana, what he had seen in minnesota this month but that this was not a
guy who was crazy. >> tremain, the next generation action that worked, the group that organized on the protests, there have been some people who have been sort of throwing them in and likening them to black lives matter and blaming black lives matter for what happened. dominic alexander said they didn't have a parade route. was there any reporting on the ground as to how micah johnson would have known where they were going to be and how much premeditation would have been possible based on how much foreknowledge there was of this protest tag place? >> joy, that remains one of many questions that still sound this tragic case. yesterday, i spoke with some of those same organizers and they said every step along the way, they worked with police officers and some of the police leadership to craft a route that served both the public good and also what they are aiming for as in terms of the march and rally. but one thing still remains
clear, joy. a cloud is over this city which covers both the police and those who support them and also those who are fighting police violence. now, i spoke to, again, the organizers and they said that while the two aren't mutually exclusive you can at once mourn the life of those officers and continue to fight the everyday acts of violence, perpetrated by the police on black men in particular. the movement must go forward but they admitted after this, there is somewhat of a chilling effect here. it's so tragic and so horrific that they are going to proceed with caution moving forward. one local activist said it might be six months or so before they get as aggressive as they had been. but every day that there are black folks dying by police bullets, they say there is still a need to push. but, again, this cloud is so dark right now that it's tough to proceed. how do you make sense of not just the motives, but the connection to the black lives matter movement. how do they pivot to say at once
that we need to ramp up the aggression and as radical as we can without promoting violence but honoring the dead in this tragic event in dallas. >> people are continuing to protest and make their voices heard. thank you both so much in dallas. thanks. up next, i'll ask congressman elijah cummings whether he thinks the outrage in dallas will finally get the republicans to the table on gun control and what he thinks of newt gingrich's surprising comments on race. stay with us. (vo) my name's nick
she loved lincoln from the start. she's his little protector. i trust dog chow to keep khloe healthy because i see the high quality ingredients that go into it. the standards that we follow are top notch. i trust dog chow enough to feed it to my dog every single day. that reminds me... anyone have occasional constipation, diarrhea... ...gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against occasional digestive issues. with three types of good bacteria. live the regular life. phillips'.
sense of this. if you are a normal white american, the truman is you don't understand being black in america, and you instinctively underestimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional risk. >> there you go. sometimes politics can surprise you. joining me now by phone is congressman elijah cummings, a democrat from maryland. i know we are going to talk with you about gun reform efforts but i have to ask you -- were you surprised when you heard former house speaker newt gingrich say those words? >> i was surprised that ed ihe it and i was surprised that he had taken the opportunity to actually try to put himself in the place of african-american men and people as we go out every day just trying to live our lives, obey the law and always have the threat of what
happened in st. paul and what happened in baton rouge, happening to us or our children. >> yes. >> i have not met yet one african-american woman, by the way, who did not tell me that they cried when they saw the situation in st. paul and in baton rouge. but, at the same time, joy, there is a very -- another part of this. they need to -- i think newt, he gets this now. our humanity and my humanity also cause me to have pain, tremendous pain when i see a law enforcement officers shot down. i mean, it was despicable what happened to them and he mourn for them and their families too. and you can do both. in other words, you can have concern about being able to be protected and serve by the police in a respectful way, but,
at the same time, care about the police officers out there giving their blood, sweat and tieears protect all of us. >> indeed. i asked senator chris murphy last night on msnbc whether or not now having had 6-year-olds church go-erses, young kids hanging out in a club, on and on and on, san bernardino, all of these mass shootings whether or not now we also add police to the grim roster of fatalities around the country, whether or not this will finally bring republican to the table on some kind of gun reform? i'll ask you really the same question. given the fact that the sloort -- alleged shooter, even though he is deceived, had the high-powered weaponry to enable him to shoot a dozen highly trained law officers, do you think this will finally bring your colleagues on the other side of the aisle to the table on gun reform? >> joy, i wish i could say yes, but i don't think so.
sadly. sadly. keep in mind that two proposals -- several, actually, that have the support of both republicans and democrats, unlimited number of republicans, but still bipartisan, the no-fly, no-buy proposal, that is, if you are a suspected terrorist, that you shents oulde able to buy a gun and the gun i.d. check information, getting that information and making it so that people who are felons not have guns. both of those are the popular, not with the rank and file in nra members and gun owners, but are not popular, joy, with the gun manufacturers and the folks who are at the top of the nra. and then, therefore, members of congress. and so i want to say that i
thought there would be change. i thought there would be change after sandy hook, after 20 little children are slaughtered by a gunman. i thought that that would cause some movement. but that does not mean we cannot give up. one of the things we do have to do with regard to the dallas situation is, joy, every time something like this happens, everybody sits around and people assume and almost urge you to go in one or two camps. either going to be against the police or you're going to be against people who are about their business of trying to make sure they are protected and served with respect. i think that we got to get away from that. we have got to be talking to each other to begin to address some of the issues. for example, any police officer will tell you, anybody who has served -- been a lawyer as i have for many years will tell you we need de-escalation
training for our police officers. some officers who may never have any training. we need anti-biased training. these are things that are very, very important. because there is nothing else that there are people who assume an african-american man is going to be violent. they assume a man carrying a gun, an african-american carrying a gun, is going to do something to them. or just an african-american just walking down the street. as one of who is approaching 66 years old, joy, i have felt it all my life. and i do not want generation after generation of african-american men to go through this, nor do i want police officers who are giving everything they have got to protect us to have to go through what these officers and their families have gone through in dallas. >> very well said. congressman elijah cummings of maryland, thank you for talking
with us on the phone this morning. >> thank you. coming up next, the nra sends its sympathies. stay with us. you focus on making great burgers, or building the best houses in town. or becoming the next highly-unlikely dotcom superstar. and us, we'll be right there with you, helping with the questions you need answered to get your brand new business started. we're legalzoom and we've already partnered with over a million new business owners to do just that. check us out today to see how you can become one of them. legalzoom. legal help is here.
but can your multivitamin to be healthy. do more for your immune health? now one a day has the first multivitamin with probiotics to support the 70% of your immune system that's found in your digestive tract. new one a day with probiotics. your multi with more. americans are buying more and more of everything online. and so many businesses rely on the united states postal service to get it there. that's why we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. the united states postal service. priority: you put under a microscope, we can see all the bacteria that still exists. polident's unique micro clean formula works in just 3 minutes, killing 99.99% of odor causing bacteria. for a cleaner, fresher, brighter denture every day.
w...i was always searching for ways to manage my symptoms. i thought i had it covered. then i realized managing was all i was doing. when i finally told my doctor, he said humira was for people like me who have tried other medications,... but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief... ...and many achieved remission. humira can lower your ability to fight infections... ...including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers,... including lymphoma, have happened; as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions,... ...and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb,... ...hepatitis b, are prone to infections, ...or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. if you're still just managing your symptoms, ask your gastroenterologist about humira.
with humira, remission is possible. just hours after a gunman fatally shot five police officers and injured seven in dallas, the nra released this statement expressing condolences to the officers killed and wounded. since thursday, several nra members have voiced their frustration for the organization for not releasing any kind of statement with the shooting of ka ste castile. that frustration continued until friday afternoon when the nra released this statement on castile's death. nra podcaster kim edwards beat his higher-ups to the punch with his comments on thursday. >> self-defense and gun ownership is a constitutionally
protected right. self-defense is a human right. and it is not one, again, that should apply based on where you live. it is not one that should apply based on your zip code or the population in your city. >> back with me is eugene o'donnell. joining me is mark claxton of the black law enforcement alliance and from st. louis paul berry 3-iii, a congressional candidate. i want to play for you mark hughes. he was the open carry advocate who was marching with the protesters in dallas and misidentified by the dallas police department for a time as the suspect and is getting lots of death threats as a result of it. i want to listen to a little bit of craig melvin interviewing mark hughes. take a listen. >> you're walking through the streets of dallas with an ar-15 at a protest. >> at a protest. >> why? >> exercising my second amendment right.
>> had you a gun. were you thinking about returning fire? >> not at all. again, i didn't know what was going on. i didn't know what was going on. i didn't know what people were running from. when it first happened, i assumed it was a fight. >> reporter: paul berry, isn't openly carrying a firearm, particularly when a situation like what happened in dallas breaks out, not only dangerous to the person who does it, potentially deadly to the person who does it, but doesn't it also make law enforcement's job a lot harder when they have to try to figure out which person brandishing an ar-15 is the shooter and which person brandishing an ah reason 15 is exercising his second amendment rights? >> well, in the situation where you have, you know, something that doesn't happen very often, yes, i can suggest it would be confusing and i think that gentleman handled it the right way. he went to law enforcement and said, here is my rifle. but there is a bigger problem here, joy. there are people that don't even carry a weapon are very concerned about their safety when it comes to law enforcement. i'm a huge law enforcement
supporter but there is an honest conversation we must have regarding this issue and it's not just people committing a crime. that is what america needs to understand. you're talking about football coaches, accountants and school teachers and janitors are all having the same type of fear. this conversation need to happen. as a second amendment supporter and i've done open-carry marches and things like that. if you have a constitutional right just like the nra said, it doesn't apply by zip code. this is something that we are going to have to get over, but i can't believe i'm saying i agree with elijah cummings but i agree with him the fact everything is not black and white and we need to have conversations. >> we don't have a ton of time. i want to come back to you on this. not people afraid of being killed by law enforcement because they are open carrying. there have been massacres in movie theaters, schools, churches. so if somebody sees you or mark hughes walking around with an ar-15 slumped over their
shoulder in walmart or in a story or restaurant, they, too, are afraid and there is a possibility they could call 911 and what happened to mark proffer, iii when he said a toy gun in walmart could happen. isn't this whole idea of brandishing terrifying weapon weapons in public kind of crazy? >> well, we have to be willing to address what the issue is. now here in missouri, i'm in the urban area of ferguson in the city of st. louis, there is absolute concern. i operate -- i'm a bail bondsman by trade and i am often with a weapon without a uniform. but we have to ask ourselves the question why is it in other areas where you don't have the concentration of african-americans we don't have this problem. you can go down to popular bluff and a man walk in from hunting with rifle or gun on his side there is not 911 calls or
activating s.w.a.t. you ban ar-15 you'll have other massacres with other weapons. you can't ban all guns. you can't ban heroin or trafficking from this country. instead of keep on hammering upon, you know, these what i call silver bullets that aren't going anywhere that they are trying to do with the missouri -- excuse me, the u.s. house, let's talk about what is really causing the injury. >> mark, let's get your take on what was just said because i think if somebody walks into an ar-15 no matter their color it would scare people. your take, mark? >> open carry is an openly provocative act and excitement if you will and multiplies the danger for law enforcement multiple times. as a gun owner and as a supporter of second amendment rights, it is -- it just is irresponsible. i mean, as a gun owner. i mean, even securing your firearm and your weapon should
be a top priority, but the act itself of open carry makes law enforcement policing, you know, ten times more difficult because you have to decipher and filter out the possibility and examine it. it's a provocative act. those individuals who support it understand quite clearly what that is. >> eugene, there is also the glaring fact that open carry is not evenly applied by race. that when somebody has a toy gun, a kid like tamir rice or john crawford iii in open carry state they are reacted different by law enforcement. do we have a secondary problem with open carry it can't be exercised in the same way by african-americans? >> congress has 10% approval rating and earning it because people are sick of debating societies across the political spectrum. the clever blogger. the intelligent point scorer who got human lives being lost.
we don't have to have ideological can you top this. what allows gun owners to legitimately have their guns and we staunch the bleeding and the life that we are losing every single day in this country? every single hour in this country. and the police with all of their problems, people recognize they go into difficult situations, they try to solve them. that is why their percentage of approval is in the 50s with racial disparity. but they are there standing and delivering. the political establishment has to stand and deliver and stop this ideological headache producing point scoring that is not solving real problems and this is a life or on death matter for the police and for the people they serve. >> thank you all. up next, we will talk to the congresswoman who reminded the house oversight committee what the real story is. ♪
using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the framework... wire... and plants needed to give my shop... a face... no one will forget. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink we'll have a free waffle. see what the power of points can do for your business. some free bacon. free eggs. should we add free syrup? you know what, let's treat ourselves. enjoy free hot breakfast with a tall glass of free wi-fi. get up to 20 percent off as a hilton hhonors member at hampton.com.
doctor comey, i would rather be here talking to you about the fbi's investigation and their resources to those individuals who are acting under color of law, who have apparently admitted egregious violations in the killings that we have seen in the recent days. but, instead, mr. chairman, i'm sitting here and i've listened patiently as a number of individuals have gone on national tv and made accusations against director comey directly and indirectly because he recommended against prosecution based on the facts. >> u.it was a five-hour maratho hearing looking to grill fbi doctor james comey over his agency's decision not to bring criminal charges against hillary clinton over her use of a private e-mail server. taking a moment to talk to our
colleagues about the life and death issues they haven't been keen to hold hearings on, she spotlight the killings we have seen in repeat days. i want to warn you some of the video may be disturbing. here is alton sterling was shot and killed in baton rouge selling cds outside of a convenience store. and then in minnesota, castile was shot and killed by a traffic stop for an allegedly broken taillight. i was telling you in the break you gave me and my team life with your incredible statement thaw made in the moment. did you feel that the carrying that you were a part of was a waste of time, quite frankly? >> we were having an investigation of the investigation. we were grilling who is inarguably one of the most greatest prosecutors in the united states of our time, a man
who is beyond reproach in that he has been put into those positions by nearly the entire senate. first in the bush administration as the deputy attorney general and now as the fbi director under president obama. so this is someone who everybody knows before he made his announcement that he was beyond reproach. the republicans, democrats both said whatever he comes out with, we can believe it because this is the man to run the fbi, this is the man who will not -- is apolitical and not do politics. immediately after him stating he was not recommending prosecution of hillary clinton, then it becomes a different story and we have to i didn't know pmpugn hid talk about how a year and a half investigation, condensing five weeks of work and talking about that it's a conspiracy theory and it was orchestrated how the announcement came out at the
same time that she was doing a rally with the president. it was ridiculous. >> yes. >> when there are so many serious issues we should be discussing in congress at this time. as i was saying to you, just as we were having that hearing, there was a man preparing to shoot police officers in dallas. and those are the gun violence, the culture of violence that we have right now is one that coress suld be dealing with and that is the reason that we have this sit-in several weeks before. >> sure. we know there have been eight investigations of benghazi which is where the e-mail gate came from originally which is essential four time more investigation than we had of 9/11. we haven't seen congressional hearings of that magnitude or any i can remember on the issues of gun violence or issues of policing and communities of color. do you expect such hearings to take place after dallas? >> it's interesting. i think the pressure is on speaker ryan, as well as the republicans, to have these
hearings right now under the house rules, they control what hearings are going to take place. what debate, what votes are going to be coming to the floor. at one point, they had said we were going to have votes on gun violence and then they took it off because they had they didn't want the american people to b believe the democrats in the senate forced them to have those votes so they need to look again and have more discussions on the issue. the issue is beyond ripe. it's turned rotten. it's turned rotten in congress and in america. we disrespect our constituents and we disrespect the american people by not having the debate and by not having votes and let people know where everyone stands on issue of assault weapons and reauthorization of the assault weapon ban and on community policing and ominous bills for give more money for officers in training. this is what we need to do. we can't pass legislation to have the cdc study the effects of gun violence in america.
>> yeah. these are things that congress actually could actually make a difference in people's lives on. >> exactly. >> they are not going to reinvestigate in five hours the e-mail gate and somehow find a smoking gun. dynamic, stacey, so great to meet you. >> you too. this is violence affects all of our communities. i was with a group of young six graders and asked do you know of someone who was shot? and only a one in class of 30 did not raise their hands. >> thank you for that dialogue on national television. some are trying to say dallas is the beginning of a civil war. seriously. we will have more on the story when we come back.
thank you is what we say. but we mean so much more. we mean how can we help? we mean what can we do? we mean it's our turn. to do our part. to serve you, for all you've done to serve us. ♪ so to all of law enforcement, i want to be very clear. we know you have a tough job. we mourn those in uniform who are protecting us who lose their
lives, and we applaud them and appreciate them because they are doing a really tough job really well. >> president obama gave that measure speech on thursday praising the heroism of police as he called for reforms in the wake of the police shootings of two african-american men. but hours later after a gunman shot a dozen police officers in dallas, some rushed to construct a narrative in which the president and nonviolent activists pushing for police reforms were responsible for the violence. among the first was former illinois congressman and conservative radio host joe walsh who tweeted this is now war. watch out, obama. watch out black lives matter. punks. real america is coming after you. unquote. joining me now is national political strategist williams and smith and leon wolf is managing editor for red state.com. thank you all for being here. leon, i start with you. first, give you real kudos.
it's not often that i get to retweet red state.com but you wrote really movingly and i think exceptionally on your perspective on what the breakdown and trust between communities of color and law enforcement means. is this something that on the right is sort of a commonly held belief or are you kind of an outlier on that issue? >> joy, i've been talking and writing about this for sometime. but i do think that it's becoming a more common belief and understanding and i think a large part of that is due to the increased prevalence and frequency with which people are taking these cell phone videos and really showing it to people. i think that it's one thing for people who live in white middle class sush suburban to hear stores are police brutality but i don't think they believe those stories because it was different from their experience in dealing with the police was. i think seeing it on video happens so frequently, not just
with the situation in minnesota and baton rouge but even some of the other less lethal videos come out where black people are stopped by police for broken taillights saying i'm getting tased and pulling it out of their car asking why am i pulled over and why am i being arrested? those sorts of things i think are driving home to people maybe this is a problem more pervasive than we have previously understood. >> i'll play you what texas lieutenant governor dan patrick had to say because he had a very different take what you've been saying and folks like places at reason.com have been saying about these issues so take a listen to this. >> i do blame people on social media with their hatred to police and i do blame former black lives matters protests. last night was peaceful and others have not been and we have heard of pigs in the blanket. >> black lives matter has disavowed pigs in a blanket chant and stuff like that. what do you make of this blaming
black lives matter which is advocating what you had in your excellent piece for the violence against police? >> well, i do think that it's a little bit ridiculous. and as a conservative, i, obviously, don't joagree with t rhetoric you hear at the black lives matter protests and so on and so forth. i think so much polarization on this country on this issue. people tend to fall into one of two camps, one of which says that everything police do is wrong and then there is one that says everything police do is right. i think that both of those are kind of contributors to this problem. the truth is as i said in my pieces is somewhere in between. i think that probably the vast majority of interactions that people have with the police are professional and courteous and everything goes fine but i think there are instances where those interactions go off the reels. i think in some portion of those interactions the police are at fault and when that happens in a number of cases police are not
held accountable and i think it's a problem. >> i come to the panel at the table. jamil you have thing the people are hearing that people have to articulate. you can be really appalled by the assassination of police officers and also be really appalled when people get killed in a traffic stop by police. why do you suppose that still has to be said? >> i think because, largely, the conservative message is those two things are irreconcilable. i think frankly what we have on the conservative message every time something like this happens is messages like joel walsh and there on this representative blaming, you know, they blame the activists and they blame the people who are actually trying to make things more peaceful. we continually have to explain over and over again our reality, that this is a problem, that this was a problem long before anyone could take a cell phone video of it. and so if people just simply believed black people and other people of color, when they talked about this kind of
harassment before, i think we would be a lot further along. but we continually every single time one of these things happen, we have to continue to explain ourselves and explain our reality. >> it's interesting because, the other thing that seems to happen is president obama gets blamed. he comes out and tries to make a statement to bring the country together and gets a response like the one i'm playing from texasman louie gomer. >> this president has had a gift. he has had the opportunity to bring us together, to be uniter, not the divider. and every time he's had the chance to bring us together as a nation! when i would look to him, okay, bring us together. he would say the most divisive things. he always comes out against cops but then he would usually be wrong! this administration has supported black lives matter as even their leaders have called out for killing cops! >> i have to say that louie
gomer screamed at the top of his lungs at john lewis and his other colleagues in the house during that sit-in and have to put that out there. >> yeah. >> what is it that you think somebody like louie gomer wants president obama to say? >> i don't know what it is that they want him to say. listen. the protests and the activism we are doing is holding up a mirror to america and to those responsible and saying, look how ugly you look. and the response that the elected officials that some conservatives have, they are responding to seeing their ugly face being shined back on them. and so that is a response. so you want the president to make you feel good about the ugliness that is happening? that is impossible. you want the president to say something to make you feel about that? that is impossible. so, obviously, we don't, you know, view the president's statements that way and it's just amazing that there can be these two different views. the president is not doing anything to make anybody divided. he is simply showing there is a
divide in america. >> i wish we had more time. would you write a post for me, leon, about what you would want as a conservative to hear the president say that you think conservatives would be more open to? would you be willing to do that? we will bring you back on! >> sure, absolutely. >> i am your editor. >> i don't know about that now but i understand we are probably out of time. >> we are out of time. i am now the editor of r redstate.com. i'll ask you next hour, leon, as you're coming back. a divide in our country displayed in one simple map. stay with us. gle packs... so guys with ed can... take viagra when they need it. ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension. your blood pressure could drop to an unsafe level. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. ask your doctor about viagra single packs.
you only earn double miles when you buy stuff from that airline. wait...is this where you typically shop? you should be getting double miles on every purchase! switch...to the capital one venture card. with venture, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, everywhere, every day. not just ...(dismissively) airline purchases. seriously... double miles... everywhere. what's in your wallet?
we have been talking about the tragedy in dallas, texas. a dozen police officers shot, five killed. but straight up i-35 from dallas, texas, right bisecting the country up interstate 35 is falcon heights, minnesota. when we come back, we will talk about why justice has been so elusive for victims of violence like philando castile in our next hour. using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the fruit... veggies... and herbs needed to create a pop-up pick-your-own juice bar in the middle of the city, so now everyone knows... we have some of the freshest juice in town. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink see what the power of points can do for your business.
does your mouth often feel dry? multiple medications, a dry mouth can be a side effect of many medications. but it can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath. that's why there's biotene, available as an oral rinse, toothpaste, spray or gel. biotene can provide soothing relief and it helps keep your mouth healthy too. remember, while your medication is doing you good, a dry mouth isn't. biotene, for people who suffer from a dry mouth.
which saves money.rance a smarter way, like bundling home and auto coverage, which reduces red tape, which saves money. when they save, you save. that's home and auto insurance for the modern world. esurance, an allstate company. click or call. esurance does insurance a smarter way. they offer a single deductible, which means you don't pay twice when something like this happens, which saves money. esurance is built to save. that's home and auto insurance for the modern world. esurance, an allstate company. click or call. there goes my sensitive bladder. sound familiar? then you'll love this. incredible protection in a pad this thin. i didn't think it would work, but it does. it's called always discreet watch this. this super absorbent core turns liquid to gel, for incredible protection that's surprisingly thin. so i know i'm wearing it, but no one else will. always discreet for bladder leaks
♪uh oh. oh. henry! oh my. good, you're good. back, back, back. (vo) according to kelley blue book, subaru has the highest resale value of any brand. again. you might find that comforting. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. please officer, don't tell me you just did this to him. you shot four bullets into him, sir. he was just getting his license registration, sir. >> while we continue to track the aftermath of the fatal ambush of police officers in
dallas thursday night, we don't want to lose sight of the two shootings by police that precipitated the protesters where that start. a civil rights right into the death of alton sterling who was shot and killed at a convenience store where he regularly sold cds in baton rouge, louisiana. witnesses in the store recorded the shooting. a day later in minnesota, philando castile was shot and killed by a police officer who pulled him over for a broken taillight. his girlfriend and her young daughter was in the car. the girlfriend live streamed the incident. she had castile was armed and reaching for his license when the shooting happened. >> they pulled us over on the side of the rote for a broken taillight. when he was reaching for his i.d., he told the sqer had he a firearm to carry and the police
took four five shots into him for no reason! they took his life for no reason! they did this to my daughter and to me and i want justice and i want peace! >> the context what we all know is that very unlikely that she will see the justice that she wants. let's take a look at this graphic from mapping police violence.org and represents fatal shootings by police in 2015. 97% of the cases no officer was charged with the crime lite blue represents the cases where the officers were charged and dark blue stick figures are fewer and cases where officers were convicted of a crime. knowing stats like that is partly what encourages people like castile's to give their children careful instructions for interacting with police officers. castile's mother spoke to just was that with an interview with
nbc news. >> i said the first thing you do if you get stopped by the police, you inform that you have a weapon if you have it on you and imply. whatever they ask you to do. do it. comply, comply, com most likepl. that was my main issue. you have a better chance of coming out alive than not complyi complying. what is the difference of complying and you get killed any way? >> thank you all for being here. sima, i come you to on this first. the mother of philando castile makes the point that alarms a lot of people. in this case he did everything right. he is a lawful conceal carry holder. according to his girlfriend who is the witness to the shooting, he told the officer i have a firearm, i have a license to carry it. and then according to the girlfriend again, he was asked to get his license and registration. he reached for it and was shot
any way. but in a case like that, isn't it still highly unlikely that the officer will be charged with a crime let alone convicted? >> yes. and that is for several reasons. to begin with, the subjective view of the officer. the officer, we don't know what type of training he had and we don't know how that training stuck to him. that his reaction time was so quick without assessing the situation properly. then we have the issue of who is going to prosecute this guy? is it going to be a district attorney or even a fed? and these arms of the justice system, joy, they are connected to each other and that is the problem. sometimes it's as if you are prosecuting your sibling. >> the thing is that in that case, i think that is one of the important points, eugene and don't police officers know that? they know the prosecutor is essentially on their team, right? >> this is really hard to fix and complex, because as sima says, the subjectivity, this is
a blue state, red state, democrat, republican, just very hard thing to fix. how do you send the police into these situations and second-guess them is a very difficult situation. at the same time, they can't open the door for abuse. i think one of the startling things here, cops will tell you that are on the ground, african-american -- is very, very understanding of mistakes and screw-ups and have supported and grand jurys and trial juries but i think they feel double-crossed there and feel they have been snookered and they have put their trust in the system and the system is not trust worthy. that has to be fixed. >> so many problems on the part of look at the castile case. the plain terror the officer is exhibiting he is afraid in the moment and he is cursing and freaking out after he shoots this man. doesn't attempt to render aid and then detains the girlfriend, the police department key obtains her overnight and threw her phone. it feels like everything that was done was wrong. yet, don't those officers still go into that incident really,
number one, looking to cover for each other and, number two, pretty confident they are going to get off? >> i don't want to get into the mind of the officer but you just showed the statistics, right? so in the minds of the officer at that moment, there is terror. i don't think they are thinking about, i'll probably get off at the end of this. i do think what they are thinking is the consequences for doing the wrong thing here are me not going home and that is the only thing they have to be concerned about. >> are they also thinking about ways to make sure that the scene and their stories all match up? there is behavior. if you look at the alton sterling case the owner of the store saying they took the video, the surveillance video from his store without a warrant. you have the same thing happen in chicago where the burger king video is confiscated by police. you have this detaining of the girlfriend overnight. i don't think she was arrested. is that even legal? >> that she was detained without -- >> detained overnight. >> no, no, actually, yes. you can do that, right. that's true. that's true. she was detained but, at the
same time, if she is just questioned as more of a witness, as opposed to being prosecuted, that would be allowed. >> do you think that in a situation like this, if it's found that what the officers did, the way that they conduct that traffic stop, let's say, was against procedure, that they did something that violated the rules of the department or the rules in that state, in that case, would there be a prosecution possibly? >> i think they have to go through the administrative process with the police department and then they would investigate before prosecuting and wouldn't want to jump to a prosecution too quickly because that could diminish the value of the case. i think they will investigate but i don't know if they are going to prosecute but i have to say i think a big problem here is the lack of training. this officer seems very, very young. so i would think a seasoned detective or a police officer, eugene, may have more experience and they are not going to react that quickly. he was out of his mind, this guy! >> the problem here is the pieces not fitting nicely together and one of the pieces
and the more we have these conversations are necessary and more accountable is necessary. the ironically the less choice we have for people, the best and the brightest are not taking it so you have -- >> is that saying we can't have accountability because officers won't take the job if they are not free to do what they want? what is sounds like to the public. >> maybe not recognize sibncilae problem. >> you can't critique law enforcement otherwise you won't get good law enforcement. to the issue of training i want to talk about minimum standards. in what other on profession will you say i'm doing what is legal. the minimum of what is legal. if a doctor said just what is legal not to get malpractice you would go to another doctor. >> in medical school you don't have one day on anatomy as opposed to in police training you may have eight fourthours o fourth amendment and not long ago. >> you are told what is legal and what is not legal and you will go to jail.
that is not part of it and too many law enforcement agencies taught on the lass as the minimum standard and aspire to a minimum standard. that is how training sometimes gets developed. >> let's talk quickly. let's talk quicker! in this case you see what looks like officers pinning a man down and shooting him when he appears to be no threat to them. in a case like that, what could possibly be justify doing that? >> i think this is the real important thing. we got to desegregate these case and stop comparing them. cases you got armed and dangerous people and people here traffic stops and not desperatedos. how do you debit to the solutge to fix these. not easily fixed. the cops feel on camera they are using force and their job in part and feel they are exposed and they feel they can be at any moment somebody could say that is criminal and any lawyer, how could you advise someone as a police officer now to use force and be absolutely sure they are
vindicated? >> i agree with that but the crucial part -- >> the cops -- they are not engaging in communities willing to be engaged. these pieces don't fit nicely together. >> we don't know what happened before the video. a big piece of the puzzle. we don't know before the video. i have a problem with his position. because alton sterling seemed to be on his back so i feel that was a less threatening stance, even though he was a convicted felon and carrying a firearm. >> but selling cds. >> no, no! i completely agree. i do, i do agree with that. like i said, i think less than of an argument for shooting him when he was on his back. he wasn't in an offensive position. he was surrendered. yes? >> i think it's clear -- i want to ask you, very quickly! one of the issues broiling my simpla ti social media time line is new patent by apple that could disengage the cell phone. is the next sort of beat in this ongoing dialogue about policing
for law enforcement to try to get out of being filmed by people's personal cell phones? >> it's a concern you have the scorpion elements. the ability to get into a cell phone and the ability to turn off the cell phone, right? i do have concerns. that as we move forward in the brand new land of technology that the state is going to have undue power to turn on and turn off surveillance on black communities and of black communities, right? i think it's something we are going to have to look into. unfortunately, the technology is ahead of the civil liberties conversation. >> one of the things the officer in the castile case did they throw the phone and didn't realize it was still on and still recording. up next, the presidential candidates react to this week's violence. stay with us. been making
dog chow for 36 years now. my dog girlfriend is 17 years old. she's been eating dog chow from her very first day and she can still chase squirrels. she can't catch them, but she can still chase them. after 17 years i'm still confident in feeding her dog chow because i see the high quality ingredients that go into it. i'm very proud to make dog chow right here in edmond, oklahoma.
youthat's why you drink ensure. sidelined. with 9 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. for the strength and energy to get back to doing... ...what you love. ensure. always be you. words panera lives by. no artificial flavors, preservatives, sweeteners. no colors from artificial sources. 100% of our food will be clean
by year's end. that's food as it should be. ♪
we cannot, we must not vilify police officers. remember what those officers were doing when they died. they were protecting a peaceful march. they were people in authority making sure their fellow citizens had the right to protest authority. and there is nothing more vital to our democracy than that. and they died for it. >> hillary clinton, yesterday, during an appearance at the ame church conference in philadelphia. the aftermath of a dallas police ambush she cancelled
an event with vice president joe biden and donald trump cancelled an event and spoke. >> we must stand?
solidarity with law enforcement we must remember is the force between civilization and total chaos. the deaths of alton sterling in louisiana and philando castile in minnesota also make clear how much work we have to do to make every american feel that their safety is protected. >> leon, i'm coming to you. i does you before we finished in the last segment, what you would want from a conservative point of view. what is it the conservatives want to hear the president say and we start with president obama on -- in times like these when there is gun violence or in an incident like dallas. what does the conservatives want to hear? >> well, listen. joy, i'm old enough to remember that back in 2007 and 2008 liberals didn't want to hear anything from george w. bush. you could hear the sky is blue and he would have been criticized for that. i think that is the kind of point that the conservatives have reached with president obama after the guy has been president seven or eight years the people on the other side of
the spectrum are not interested in hearing what he has to say. i didn't have a huge problem what the president said on friday. i thought a lot of it was pretty good. the only thing i would say that i with be critical of was th this -- the kind of foray into the gun control issue because i think if you look at what goes on in other countries, the prevalence of guns is not related to police killing their own citizens. the country of iceland last
year for the first time in their nation's history, first time ever, had a policeman kill a civilian. first time ever in the history of iceland. they have a high incident of gun ownership and same thing in fin lad and sweden. they don't have the same prevalence of law enforcement killing civilians. i think that is one of the things that kind of, you know, set a lot of conservatives off what the president said. i thought, overall, i thought his pitch was pretty good
yesterday. >> i will say australia had a direct experiment in this and they reduced the number of guns in their society and reduced their deaths from guns. we want to move and talk about the current political candidates. is there something, jamil smith, that donald trump could say or democrats would say i can concur with that? >> i think his statement was actually for him uncommonly good. but that is not really saying much when you're talking about donald trump. frankly, look. . the one thing that donald trump needed to not do was inflame the situation which is normally what he does. so with that statement, yes, there were facts wrong. yes, there was talking about the police we need to stop doing. i feel like, you know, overall, he didn't make things worse and i think this is really the most we can ask for. >> hillary clinton has a long history that people in new york know about that maybe the rest of the country doesn't in speaking to the issues of gun violence going back to other
cases in which the mayor of new york rudy giuliani was horrible and cruel. she called him out on his cruelty to those victims on the side by throwing himself on the side of police releasing the juvenile record, et cetera. she has a history on this. do you think that her history on this has actually helped her in a material way or do you think it's something that she hasn't really, i don't know, hasn't really sort of put forward for herself in her own defense? >> to your point i think something people in new york know. i think it has helped her in terms of helping to understand and being able to connect the issue. you certainly have seen a growth in her as a candidate in discussing this issue. she talked about criminal justice reform in the beginning of her campaign and even her statements in the interviews i've seen in the past 48 hours that she has released or has
done. there is the vocabulary and the context she is talking about it is different and more toward those of you who have been protesting and taking action on this. that is, i think, a kudos to the movement overall in that they have shifted the conversation on that. and contributing to that is what we had earlier where this need to say where -- >> that you need that. that this current movement is pushing against that. that is what we need to do. no one is talking about the -- we all agree. i have family members who are currently on the force that i want to see in the deacon row when i go to church every sunday. we know that the mamt jority ar going to do their jobs. what we are asking you to do is rooting out the people who are not and holding people accountable who are taking people's lives. >> and make the climate such that officers who do want to come forward don't feel afraid
themselves and don't feel intimidated. leon you said we reached the point that conservatives are tuning out whatever president obama has to say. project forward to if hillary clinton becomes president. because i think the conservatives reach that point with the clintons 30 years ago, right? she is already at that point with the right. are we simply to look forward to four more years of talking past each other on really every issue, but even in moments like these, my family was not fans of ronald reagan but when he did a speech after the "challenger," everybody listened to him. >> i think there is a real sense and it's growing on the right that criminal justice reform is something that needs to be taken up by conservatives that this is a issue we need to deal with regardless of who the president is or who in power or federal government. it's a big government issue as
well and one of the things that i think gets swept under the rug under this whole discussion, especially if you look at the ferguson doj report one of the main things they spent a lot of time talking about was the reason police come in contact with minority communities so often is that cities budget for things they can't afford and turn to the police departments into these armed revenue collectors to go out and essentially extract the hidden tax in a minority community. that is not something that conservatives support and i think a lot of people are opening their eyes to that i think will continue to occur whoever is in the oval office and i hope to be the case. >> a good point. something that can be done. that is material you withcan im right now. >> you need to change the laws and policies overall that create this climate. but i don't want to miss there is also something -- lots of things on the federal level that can be done by both congress and
possibly leading from whoever it is occupying the white house. i mean, just a simple thing that i've been talking about in pushing is the requirement for police departments to actually report the deaths of unarmed -- of whether it's unarmed or deaths in custody in general is a suggestion. it's not mandatory. what happens is if you do not report this as law enforcement across the country, you lose federal funding. >> right. >> there are some things that can be done to, you know, put more accountability measures in to be able to collect the data but then also to introduce clear, concise accountability measures to demonstrate to communities of color that we really have an interest on preserving your life. >> one of the great tragedies is dallas was doing that. >> right. exactly. they deployed the de-escalation tkes that president obama recommended. i think we are hearing wonderful word but, you know, we need to
actually do more than try to close the empathy gaps and we need to see policy and what they are going to be doing. >> don't talk at me, just do some stuff. >> put that on a bumper sticker. thank you all for joining me. you guys are great. up next, we take a look at what it means to be black nen in the wrong place.
the mere fact that my nephew had a firearm in his vehicle, he had a ccw permit. therefore, he had the right given to him, the perms permission and privilege of the state of minnesota to carry a firearm on his person. >> i think he was just black in the wrong place. >> that was valerie ka stecasti saying her son was black in the wrong place. this is a map of minneapolis. if you look at the mississippi river down the middle everything to this side is minneapolis. everything to this side of the river is st. paul.
now the black dots that you see on this map represent where there are more african-americans. look at minneapolis. lots of african-americans who live on this side of the mississippi. go over to st. paul, the red dots represent where you have more white americans, where the community is whiter. you see not a lot of black dots here on this side of the mississippi. now let's take a look at falcon heights. the place where philando castile was pulled over and died. look at those dots. lots of red. in other words, philando and his girlfriend pulled over and stopped in falcon heights that looks demographically like st. paul where not a lot of african-americans. was he black in the wrong place and did the police officers that stopped that car react to them because of where they were? and who they were? we will bring in our panel after the break. first, listen to an ohio police officer named nakia jones. look at her react to the shooting of alton sterling by police.
>> so why don't we just keep it real! if you that officer that know good and well you got a god complex you're afraid of people that don't look like you! you have no business in that uniform! take it off! [ screaming ] >> if you're afraid to go and talk to an african-american female or male or mexican male or female because they are not white like you! take the uniform off! you have no business being a police officer! been trying to prepare for this day... and i'm still not ready. the reason i'm telling you this is that there will be moments in your life that... you'll never be ready for. your little girl getting married being one of them. ♪ ♪ that reminds me... anyone have occasional constipation, diarrhea...
...gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against occasional digestive issues. with three types of good bacteria. live the regular life. phillips'. put under a microscope, we can see all the bacteria that still exists. polident's unique micro clean formula works in just 3 minutes, killing 99.99% of odor causing bacteria. for a cleaner, fresher, brighter denture every day.
using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the fruit... veggies... and herbs needed to create a pop-up pick-your-own juice bar in the middle of the city, so now everyone knows... we have some of the freshest juice in town. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink would this have happened if the driver or the passenger were white? i don't think it would of. so i'm forced to confront and i think all of us in minnesota are forced to confront this kind of a racism exists and that it's incumbent upon all of us to do what we can to see that is doesn't happen and doesn't continue to happen.
>> back with me is phil and retired nypd detective mark claxton is joining us along with wesley lowery. my executive producer is from this part of the country. we talked in our preshow meeting about these demographics that you have minneapolis that is heavily african-american and falcon heights is heavily white. if you follow that mississippi river that i showed on that graphic all the way down, you'd actually get to baton rouge, louisiana. if you want to make it really surreal and get into kind of the map of it. but that is is the point, phillip, right? you have african-americans in spaces where they are not maybe expected and when they are pulled over, they are pulled over with a special aggressiveness. is that what you found in your experience with these issues? >> exactly what officers believe and it drives a lot of their behavior. i do training with law enforcement all around the country. in fact, for the last two days we were in d.o.j. with law enforcement executives about 30 plus. we were talking about how this stuff works out. and what happens is when you
were assigned to a precinct or a division as a beat officer, right? you were told, all right, you want to make sure the bad people are not coming in and catch them. the best way to do that who is out of place? who is here for the wrong set of reasons? to train officers out of that i get that. that is a stereotype. that's wrong. but it's accurate. >> but they still do it. >> it's accurate, right? what do you say back to them? but it's accurate, right? you have to actually have some statistics. when people people say i hate to say it but it's driven by the crime rate in black community and they are committing more crime. we now contest that, right? we got the national justice database and have these data and we can test that. our new report says that line of argument doesn't hold water. but you got to bend. you got to base it on a facts and evidence. i encourage people download the report and share these data because the only way you can, you know, respond against anecdote and stereotype is with
that. >> "the washington post" is keeping tabs on the number of of people shot and killed by police. staggering numbers. 465 shot to death in the first six months of 2015 and number up this year 491 people in the first six months of 2015. -- 2016. alarming numbers but the actual rate of police officers as horrific what happened in dallas being killed are actually quite low or, you know, significantly lower than that. >> of course. a police officer is shot and killed by a suspect. something about every ten days in the united states and no one who i know who works in these spaces who recalls police as advocating police officers being killed. however what we also know is that police officers shoot and kill three people every single day of the year. right? over almost a thousand every single year. and that is probably the lowest it's ever been in american history. you can only imagine that
previously prior to reform with less transparency this was worse, right? especially during times where we have crime upticks previously. so what we know is that police officers are killing a lot of people. we know that it has not gotten any better in post-ferguson world. the shootings in fact, are increasing. we know black americans are 2.5 times as likely to be shot and killed by police. than white americans. and that does not correlate as phillip talks about that does not correlate to crime in any way. baltimore has not seen a huge uptick in police shootings this near, nor has st. louis but st. louis is particularly bad on police shootings. it also does not correlate to whether or not the person who was killed was more aggressive, right? black people who are killed by the police are not, in fact, more aggressive than while people killed by the police. in fact, the opposite. white people have to do more based on our analysis to get themselves shot and killed bill the police than a black person does. >> i think so much evidence on
youtube. look at some of these aggressive encounters between white citizens including armed citizens. the open carry folks in texas have posted videos of themselves confronting very confrontation with a gun on them and nothing happens. mark, i want to go to you on the subject of the part of what we are seeing here is more interaction as well and more encounters between african-americans and police. the statistics the latest are that black drivers 31% more likely to be culled over and you say more physical interaction? mark? >> yeah. absolutely. let me just start by saying there is no save haven for black folk, regardless of what community you're in or what area you're in or what part of the nation you're in. the rules of engagement still apply. the elements of the famous, the talk that black mothers and black faernthers have given the
children throughout the years still applies across the board. even when you examine, as the doctor was saying, the statistics, when you examine and when you have them to examine, there seems to be still a reluctance or refusal to acknowledge the crisis level you're in, if it pertains to the safety and security of black people. so that is a reality that we just have to deal with. and accept the fact that law enforcement, policing enforcement is really racially based and applied. and statistics bear that out. the reality of blacks across the nation bear that out as well. >> i have to play tony cornish who is a state representative in minnesota reacting to governor mark dayton saying that if that encounter between philando castile and the police happened, if castile was white, would not have happened. the governor is trying to please certain people by playing the race card in the minnesota shooting. i want to ask you about the tick
in media we are seeing since both of us in that business of going to whatever it is that is in the history of the dead person. right? of saying, well, you know? person who was culled by a police officer has this many speeding tickets or has this many traffic tickets or this many arrests or something in their background that makes them somehow less worthy of sympathy when they have had these fatal kron confrontations with police. what is that in our business? >> it is our job as the media to hold powerful people and powerful institution accountable. when a police officer, an agent of the state kills someone, our responsibility, our burden of proof, our onus should not be on the dead teenager in the street. on or on the dead mornl in tthe car or the dead son or daughter shot on the sidewalk. our focus should be on holding accountable the police officer, the government. we forget very often that police are the government, right? they are the arm of government that are -- that people interact
with the most and the most directly, right? but, unfortunately, and part of this speaks to a media diversity issue as well. the black armed man must be a thug and be violent and his rap sheet must explain. even felons, even people with rap sheets, in fact, don't deserve to be shot down in the street necessarily, right? they deserve to have a full investigation of their killings, even someone armed with a gun deserves to have a fair -- you know, so very often, people who would like to distract from a more systemic conversation try to make the conversation about the anecdote. we listen to their rap lyrics what is happening and happening in policing nationally. >> why, phillip, you see families rushing to find the pictures they want of their loved ones out there before
media mind their facebook page for her scurriless looking images. >> it's distressing how many people have a number of godchildren who are black and adorable and have joy in their lives both in the morning and the rest of their lives. it's disheartening to me to talk with their parents about, well, i have these photos in case it happens soon. right? to have that as part of the conversation. i have to bring it back to this narrative. there is a narrative that it's not -- it's not race. it's poverty. and that has be in policy discussions a long timesh. it's not race, it's criminalability. it becomes irrelevant how we litigate our innocence in the public's fear. to have black giving birth how they protect not just their lives but their image. right? and the reputation of their race and why the facts are so incredibly, incredibly
important. >> mark, i'll give you the last word on this. given all of that, four police officers who are, you know, doing their jobs in a suburb, mostly white suburb, encountering black motorists, for whatever reason. this one they had was a broken taillight and we don't know what is behind that traffic stop. what could change in their training that would allow nonblack officers confronting that couple in a car or that gentleman selling cds maybe in a neighborhood that was more white than black? what about training could actually change the nature of those interactions? >> well, let me broadly apply this and say not only the white officers, but black and latino officers because we have to be mindful that we are dealing with a police culture. so even if you change the complexion or the race of the police officer, you'll find the same troubled statistics. training, people often bring up training as an issue. and i believe, as many people believe, there should be additional training. there must be additional training to maintain
professional standard. you need additional training. but let's be clear about something. police officers don't have a problem with training in white neighborhoods. so they have training. they have necessary training. there could be additional training. but what there really need to be is a transformation of the current police model on. if you move away from heavy-handed aggressive policing and more towards public service community policing models, you'd have less interactions and less of these violent interactions and fatal shootings but it's not simply a training issue because the training seems to work very well in white neighborhood. >> yeah. i think that is the glaring fact that we all have to deal with. thank you so much to all of you. pres appreciate. coming up, loretta lynch, the attorney general, makes the case for unity. stay with us. entures fit well. before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. even well fitting dentures let in food particles.
just a few dabs of super poligrip free is clinically proven to seal out more food particles so you're more comfortable and confident while you eat. so it's not about keeping my dentures in, it's about keeping the food particles out. try super poligrip free. but can your multivitamin to be healthy. do more for your immune health? now one a day has the first multivitamin with probiotics to support the 70% of your immune system that's found in your digestive tract. new one a day with probiotics. your multi with more.
♪ ♪ take on the unexpected with a car that could stop for you. nissan safety shield technologies, available in the altima, sentra and maxima. now get 0% apr for up to 72 months, plus $500 bonus cash. ♪ i want to remember some of the too many lives lost this week to violence. alton sterling was 37 years old
when he was killed by police officers in baton rouge, louisiana on tuesday. sterling had for years sold cd in the convenience store parking lot where he was killed. family members said he had recently obtained a gun to protect himself from muggers. he was remembered as a joyful and generous man by his family. sterling's family and friends held a traditional second line parade in baton rouge thursday to celebrate and honor his life. philando castile was 32 years old and remembered this week as a kind gentlemen man who cared about the st. paul minnesota schools as he worked as a kitchen supervisor. phil as he was known was engaged to be married. his girlfriend and her 4-year-old daughter were in the car when he was killed. officer brent thompson joined the dallas area rapid transit police force in 2009. he was was 43. he had just married a fellow officer two weeks before he was killed. officer thompson had trained
police officers in iraq and afghanistan and had been an instructor at a texas police academy before joining d.a.r.t. the d.a.r.t. police chief remembered officer thompson as a great officer who served admirably. dallas police officer patrick zamarripa was 32 and he served three tours of duty in iraq as a naval security fer. he was married and had two children. a 2-year-old daughter and a stepson. his family remembered him as a dedicated, passionate police officer. dallas police officer michael krol was killed in the line of duty thursday night. he had previously worked for the wayne county, michigan, sheriff's deputy before moving to dallas to join the force. sergeant michael smith served with the dallas police department for 28 years. he also served in the army for seven years. officer lorne ahrenes had served with dallas police department since 2002 after spending ten years with the los angeles
sheriff's deputy. he was married to a dallas pl police detective and was remembered by colleagues as a big man with a big heart. we will be right back. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension. your blood pressure could drop to an unsafe level. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. ask your doctor about viagra single packs.
zblvrnlgts after the events of this week, americans across our country are feeling a sense of helplessness of uncertainty and a fear. now, these feelings are understandable and they are justified. but the answer must not be violence. the answer is never violence. i urge you to remember today and every day, that we are one nation, we are one people and we stand together. >> attorney general loretta lynch was among the many officials calling for peace and unity. but after so much loss, grief and anger, many are asking how can can the country come together and heal? joining me now -- thank you both for being here. i'll start with you, sister, i
understand you both of you are delivering among those delivered 1,000 clergy signatures to the republican national convention calling for an end to extremism. tell us what that's about and what you hope to gain. >> well, joy, what we are looking at is the chance to change the direction of our nation. over 1100 clergy members have signed on saying they are leading their congregations to making a difference, to healing the gaps, to reweaving the fabric of our society and we are calling on both political parties to engage in the rhetoric, the healing, not in further division. police train iing can help in se settings. but what we need is training for our people that we are community together. that is what needs to change. >> and reverend barber, it is expected that people of faith such as yourselves would call for peace, for healing, end to extremis extremism, but what is it that you think practical people can
do to change this really terrifying climate we're starting to see in the country? >> well, thank you so much. good to see sister simone. this higher ground moral ground declaration we've been delivering to this nation and our leaders, there's a scripture that says when my heart is overwhelm ed, lead me tohe rock that is higher. jewish text. what we're sag is we first of all, in our political structures, we have to move away from this left right conservative liberal, this limited morality, so, the declaration says that economic sustainability, is a moral issue. dealing with health care and education and equal rights for lgbt immigrants, voting rights, are moral issues and if we don't start dealing with them, we get
stuck in the puny language of left versus right. how much death do we have to see to scare us to life? how many have to die for us to deal with the proliferation. there's a study at columbia university school of public health that says 250,000 people died every year from the lack of health care, poverty and low education. we have to transform our discussion of these issues as just being political to being deeply moral ibs and that's why clergy are coming together. >> sister, you've clashed with some on the right before on these issues. do you expect something different this time? >> well, yes, i do, actually. i see speaker paul ryan is engaging the issue of poverty. i don't agree with some of his solutions, but at least he's
engaging the issue, but more importantly, what i've seen from our bus tours another one which starts on monday, is that the people will make the change. it's up to us to be community. >> indeed. thank you for being with us. we really appreciate you and we will watch for your efforts. thank you. that is our show for today. watch tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern and up next, alex whit continues our coverage and congratulations to serena williams for winning wimbledon! go, serena.
you stay up. you listen. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future, we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped families just like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready, start with us. doing the right thing has never been easier. legalzoom. legal help is here.
your but, during the day, fine when yothey can move!em on. in the morning... noon... evening... enough is enough! it's time to use fixodent plus adhesives. with just one application... ...they give you superior hold, even at the end of the day. so you can keep enjoying your evenings. fixodent. strong more like natural teeth. fixodent and forget it. ♪ using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the framework... wire... and plants needed to give my shop... a face... no one will forget. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink
hello, everyone, it is noon here in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west and here's what's happening now. in just a few minutes, president obama will speak from warsaw, poland. that's where he has been attending a series of nato meetings after a shortstop president will return to washington tomorrow night. a full day earlier than