tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC July 11, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PDT
the politics of division. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in new york. we, the people of the united states, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility. those are the opening words of our constitution. we know because we were taught them. but how are our two major political parties promising to meet these goals including ensuring domestic tranquility? we will know much of that answer in the next two weeks as the republicans and then the democrats meet in convention, adopt platforms, nominate presidential and vice presidential candidates. tonight we look at the choice facing americans or at least how
the choice is being presented by the parties themselves. tomorrow, president obama joins vice president biden and former president george w. bush at a memorial service for the fallen police officers down in dallas. the president while in europe of course meeting with nato allies has spoken out about dallas but also about the police-involved shootings recently in louisiana and minnesota. four different times over the last three days. yesterday he called upon those on both sides of the american debate to keep a respectful tone. >> this week, people felt hurt and angry and so some of this is just venting. but i think that the overwhelming majority of people who are involved in the black lives matter movement, what they really want to see is a better relationship between the police and the community so that they can feel that it's serving them, and the best way to do that is to bring allies aboard. that means -- that includes, by
the way, police departments that are doing the right thing like dallas, which has implemented the very reforms that black lives matter is seeking. that's part of why it's so tragic that those officers were targeted. >> donald trump has said the president himself is to blame for the uptick in racial violence, tweeting yesterday look what is happening to our country under the weak leadership of obama and people like crooked hillary clinton. we are a divided nation. while many african-americans agree that racial tensions are worse right now, some see it being stirred up by the partisan reaction on the right to the current occupant of the white house. as u.s. congresswoman eddie bernice johnson said today in the "washington post," quote, race relations have deteriorated greatly in the last five to eight years. it's the reality. i can tell you what the average black american thinks. they think that because our president is african-american that the white racism has been rebirthed.
i'm joined by philadelphia's former police commissioner charles ramsey, co-chair of president obama's task force on 21st century policing as well as msnbc political analyst harold ford, former u.s. congressman from tennessee. i want to start with congressman ford about the political situation. is this country more polarized than five or eight years ago? is there a racial tension in the air? is there a vicious cycle between the police forces of the country and the people who feel victimized by them? >> we have made tremendous progress in the last ten years. we have an african-american president who has been elected twice. we have a number of african-american men and women graduating from college, graduating from high school, more black women graduating from college than before, more african-americans working in corporate america. i think a great argument can be made on the other side. when you look at some of the basic metrics, economic metrics, including income, including household wealth, you certainly can make an argument that african-americans are not faring as well as they would like.
now, the police violence and brutality and some of the misconduct and obviously the tragedy in dallas, i separate that from some of the other things. it is hard to fully embrace my former colleague's comments about this racism because indeed, the president has been elected twice. so if racism was as pernicious as one would suggest, he may not have won. are they a louder group, people are more public about their views, are incidents of racial organizations or organizations dedicated to sub lattios, are they louder today? police data and other data suggests that it is. but i'm hopeful that this conversation we are having will continue in some ways but the most important thing i hope that happens is what the chief of police down in dallas has urged as well as other leaders in dallas are urging, not only for calmness but a real conversation about where we are and a real appreciation on the part of every american for the bravery and the courage of law enforcement around the country and for an appreciation by all politicians. i was proud to see paul ryan and newt gingrich say the things they said, that indeed, african-americans face a unique and unusual and for that matter, a treatment that perhaps normal
white americans as newt gingrich said, might not understand on a day to day basis. >> let's push that conversation. commissioner ramsey, let's talk about it from a police commissioner's point of view of a major city, in philadelphia, for example, where you worked for all those years. what puts it all together? how do you connect the dots of what seems to be every month or so, a white police officer shoots a black person in what looks to be troubling, say troubling situations, without going into court on this. just trying to figure it out. why would a guy shoot a fleeing guy when he seems to be no threat to the police officer. why is there what seems to be a trigger-happy situation going on here involving white and black, blue and victim? how do you put that together with the environment which seemed to be improving, i thought, the last ten, 20 years? >> well, i mean, i think first of all we have to have everything in context. certainly there have been some very questionable if not outright criminal incidents that we have seen as part of the videos that have been out there recently. but that does not reflect the
hundreds of thousands of contacts that police have with citizens every day. it doesn't reflect the number of guns we take off the street from armed suspects in which no one is injured or taken into custody. so i think we need to understand that there's a lot of activity that takes place, not all of which is bad. most of it is very, very good and positive and exactly the way you would like to see it. but i think when these things get out there and get highlighted, it does give the perception that have you got police that have gone wild and nothing could be further from the truth. but we did have to hold accountable those officers who act outside of the law. >> was this going on before it got to be the headline? >> well, in some instances, yeah. i mean, you have almost 800,000 police officers in the united states, 18,000 police departments, and you have got people that just don't do things the way you would like to see
them. some engage in criminal behavior, some engage in excessive force and so forth. but name a profession where you don't have someone who is acting outside of the ethics of that particular profession, whether you are talking about medicine, lawyers, politicians, journalists. it goes on and on. but you can't paint everyone with the same brush. >> after meeting with law enforcement leaders in washington, vice president joe biden today called for more community policing. here's what he told nbc's lester holt. >> there's a great deal of anxiety and fear, fear on the part of police officers that they become targets and fear on the part of the communities that they are in fact targets of the police. so there's a need for there to be more community policing and interaction and these police organizations ask for some help. they said we need help and more money for training.
we need more help in providing training on deescalation, et cetera. we are sitting at a concrete agenda of things we can do that can open up the avenues of communication between the black community primarily and the police departments and i think they're ready to do it and i think the community is. >> congressman ford, i'm not going to condemn the fellow down there, he's obviously guilty of what he did, he was killed in doing it, down there shooting all those police officers. what can a president do to quell that kind of anger, that would lead a person to basically give up his life to be able to kill a lot of police officers, apparently based upon digging up by the police down there, he was planning a lot more mayhem. he just went quickly ballistic, if you will, literally, at the time he heard about what happened in minnesota and louisiana so he was stirred by those police incidents. the question is how can a president mollify that almost -- well, suicidal murder? he wanted to kill himself, too. the whole thing is as horrible
as it looks. >> i think both president bush and president obama being in dallas tomorrow is a powerful symbolic statement. i think the more the president can urge leaders of faith to come together and invite communities, invite their own communities to come together as just people, as humans. one of the more touching pictures in all of this was to watch the young african-american woman, a mother of four who was shot there in dallas by that gunman and she explained how police officers ran to her and even she covered her son, her 15-year-old son, police officers, to chief ramsey's point, ran to her and protected her. she thanked the police officers. the more we can show and the more we can share those kind of stories and even in my hometown of memphis where you had a very peaceful protest with the police and protesters working together and the chief of police marching with protesters, these symbols as much as the substance right now, to chief ramsey's substance, talking about the number of police contacts a day and the positive ones and the results of police departments around the country are achieving for communities of color and all
communities for that matter are the kind of stories we need as we try to recover from a horrific week for this united states. >> former new york mayor rudy giuliani said police involved shootings represent a small fraction of african-american deaths and said the name of the black lives matter movement was inherently racist. let's hear him. >> if you want to deal with this on the black side, you've got to teach your children to be respectful to the police and you've got to teach your children that the real danger to them is not the police. the real danger to them,100 time who are going to kill them. >> when you say black lives matter that's inherently racist. >> well, i think -- >> black lives matter, white
lives matter, asian lives matter, hispanic lives matter. that's anti-american and it's racist. >> commissioner, it seems interesting of course, it seems more ironic every day in politics but newt gingrich said it's dangerous being an african-american male in this country not just because of the street violence that's there, crime, but also because of the police. rudy giuliani was just sort of, i don't know, was he just stirring trouble there? i don't know. what did you make of what he said? >> well, first of all, i don't agree with the comment he made about just the name alone is racist. people are just trying to point out an issue, a very real issue that exists in this country, and that is that african-americans die at a much higher rate than others, and when it comes to police officers and use of force, it does happen at a higher rate. now, we also have to deal with some realities and that is crime that occurs in more of our challenged neighborhoods, oftentimes those are communities of color.
we have to deal with all these things. but i mean, we are trying to find easy solutions or come up with names or name calling and things like that. we need thoughtful people to sit down and figure out what we need to do next. because right now, the police are just kind of like holding the bag for all the social ills that exist in this country. and until we actually sit down and figure out what's going on and what we need to fix it, it's not going to change. we need problem solvers, not finger pointers or bomb throwers. we got to really sit down and take this very seriously with concrete action steps. >> one of the things rudy giuliani could do to help this conversation would be to be quiet. >> we are watching the black lives matter rally of course, protest event down in chicago right now. want to ask you, commissioner, what happens to a police officer, a regular fellow or woman, male or female, black, white or hispanic who's on the
beat right now and faces some risk in a tough neighborhood? do they pull back in a situation like this and say i'm not going to stop that car with the bad light on the back, i'm not going in that club at night, i'm going to pull back? is that the tendency of a police officer when they're under fire like this? >> a few may take that attitude but the majority of officers go out there and perform every day in spite of what's going on now. listen, when something happens, you turn on those lights and you roll. you go straight to it. police officers do a tremendous job every day. sure, in some circles, they are being vilified but even that is blown a little out of proportion. the majority of people in america still respect and like the police and appreciate what they do every day. they just want fair and impartial policing. even black lives matter.
they know they need police but they want police that are going to treat them in a fair and just way. we have always kind of looked at it as police as just get the crime numbers down. but people are looking for more than just low crime numbers. they are looking for fairness and justice. the way in which they are treated, the way in which they are respected. that's when we have to focus on as a profession. >> well said. >> i agree. thank you so much for coming. very thoughtful. coming up, what are the republicans offering in the way of leadership after this cycle, this attitude about the police and violence? i said that guy went out to kill a lot of police knowing he would die, too. you cannot consider anything but a sort of suicidal anger. donald trump has tried to sound more serious momentarily. what signal will he send when he picks his running mate this week? that's coming up. that's coming up in the next couple days. he said so. he says it's down to about four candidates. plus, bernie sanders is set to endorse hillary clinton tomorrow. we'll see. 36 days after she locked up the nomination. but on policy, bernie's getting much of what he wanted. as the democrats are putting fort their most progressive or leftish platform in a long time. with one week to go before the start of the republican convention out in cleveland, there are a lot of republican no-shows.
catch this. that convention may be best known by who doesn't show up. it's donald trump's coming-out party. lot of people aren't coming in, including big names like jeb bush. of course, mitt romney and the governor aren't showing. the silence is a problem and it's about the man who may well have a problem. the "hardball" roundtable will tell us something about the presidential race i don't know.
democrats are more optimistic about their chances of winning the u.s. senate tonight. that's because evan baye announced he's running for the open seat in the hoosier state. he will be running against todd young, who was favored to win that seat when facing baron hill but hill announced he wouldn't stay in bayh's way. we'll be right back.
we must maintain law and order at the highest level, or we will cease to have a country 100%. we will cease to have a country. i am the law and order candidate. not only am i the law and order candidate, but i'm also the candidate of compassion. >> welcome back to "hardball." deep divide has resurfaced in this country in the wake of last week's events and what you just heard was a more measured donald trump promising to bridge that divide. the election of barack obama was hoped to usher in a more unified post-racial era. something the president defended again this weekend. >> there is sorrow. there is anger. there is confusion about next steps. but there's unity in recognizing that this is not how we want our communities to operate.
this is not who we want to be as americans. >> donald trump went after obama, tweeting that quote, if president obama thinks the nation is not as divided as people think, he is living in a world of make-believe. the gop front-runner has had his own issues with unifying the country because of his past comments on race. in fact, back in 2011, he made his political debut, you must admit, because he led the birther movement, questioning where barack obama was born and his past history, really. in february, trump took two days to disavow the support of david duke, then there was this. >> you know -- aw, look at my african-american over here. look at him. are you the greatest? you know what i'm talking about? >> when asked by pew, 58% of black americans say there's too little attention paid to racial issues in this country. i'm joined by miami mayor tomas rigolotto and kellyanne conway. mr. mayor, what do you feel is going on when you look at this really tragic cycle where a guy goes out and kills five police
officers, tries to kill a lot more, wounds a lot more, and apparently planned to kill even more because he doesn't like what happened in louisiana and minnesota and other places in the country where you see a white police officer shooting an african-american victim? >> i think first of all, good afternoon. thank you. i think that many cities should follow the model of miami. in 2010, we had seven civilians killed by police officers and then we took measures. we took measures and for two years now, we have been hiring professors from fiu, university here in south florida, and we are teaching each and everyone in the miami police department, we have 1400 officers of diversity and deescalation. that's important because miami is a very unique place. we have many latino communities. we have a huge african-american community. we have a big, big haitian american community. so they need to know about diversity and deescalation. what we have seen in these days recently is escalation, you know, you answer back to a police department, you have
issues. the other thing that we have done is we have established coffee with a cop. a cop is walking beat, they go and meet with the community, they have coffee, they informally talk, but we also have done something that i think is important for the soul and for the healing in any city like miami that had many, many race riots and even cuban american riot during 2000. so we are sponging the record with the public defender, with the state attorney, of more than 1,000 people and we also have been doing for five years gun buy-backs. we have bought guns from the community with gift cards that are given to us by private industry. by the way, we have taken off the street about 700 assault rifles. that's not going to solve the problem but you know, the fact that one of our major in the police department was selected as chief of police for ferguson, it tells you that community
policing is working here in miami. >> thank you, sir. hold on there. former house speaker, one of donald trump's top contenders i guess in the beginning, supporters, newt gingrich had a surprising take on race, one very different from the mayor of new york. let's take a listen. >> it took me a long time and a number of people talking to me over the years to get a sense of this. if you are a normal white american, the truth is you don't understand being black in america and you instinctively underestimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional risk. >> wow. let me go to kellyanne. your thinking about trump's answer when he says i'm the law and order candidate, people hear nixon. that's a divisive phrase oftentimes. he says he cares about compassion. is it all something that's been substantiated by his past positions? >> yes. if you look at the reaction of trump on friday, they immediately canceled all of his campaign events and he stuck to that.
he actually was supposed to be in the mayor's miami that day. he stuck to that and put out a statement talking about we need leadership, love and compassion. he also said that the two shooting victims, the african-american men and the five slain officers who were yet to mention tonight, the killer said he wanted to kill white people, especially white cops. we heard that from chief of police david brown. donald trump said he wanted to offer prayers and support for all of those families of the seven slain, the five police officers and the two african-american men, and he also had a very measured response or he said we need leadership, we need love, we need compassion. hillary clinton went out and gave an interview to wolf blitzer where she chided jim comey for being insensitive.
>> what is the republican, or if you can give us, i know you are new to the campaign, what is the trump position on dealing with this lack of harmony, putting it lightly, between the blue, the police forces, and the african-american community in this country which is real, it seems to be almost relentlessly bad news on that front? >> i think he has talked about that even today. he talked about how the police are the guardians of this great democracy and we must all be protected. he actually said today in virginia beach in a speech about veterans and reforming the awful va, he said we need law and order, we need to protect everyone. that includes everyone, regardless of gender, disability, race, sexual orientation. that's everyone deserves
protection. that's his point. you know, i think of all the accomplishments that president obama wants to count as his legacy, if you look at the polling, at the height of his inauguration, 65% of whites said that race relations in the u.s. were good, that's down to 37% among blacks, it's gone from 59% to 38%. i don't think he can legitimately say that improved race relations is part of his legacy. >> let me ask you about something you know a lot about. i think it's down to pence for vp. what do you think? >> only donald trump can make that decision. but i do know governor pence very well. i have been a pollster for him and same thing for newt
gingrich. i think either of them would be great vice presidential running mates. but they are very different. i think in mike pence, donald trump makes the whole rust belt region that was a disaster for mitt romney and john mccain more competitive. he has the 12 years in congress. you know mike pence. he was in washington before he ever became of washington. >> i think he's picking him. he said so today, in fact. donald trump said lead for somebody not another anti-establishment candidate. he's enough of that. he knows that. he's looking for somebody who has appeal to the establishment. >> unlike all of us on the east coast or at least me, i think mike pence is one of these guys who takes a deep breath first and talks second, which i sort of appreciate. he's a very measured person. >> it's novel. i'm not going to buy into it completely. let me ask you, mayor, do you have any thoughts about the vp, what kind of person donald trump should name? >> i think it doesn't matter to me because i'm not supporting trump. the reason i'm not supporting is because i don't think he's a
candidate of compassion. a person with compassion do not call people that don't look like him murderers and drug dealers and rapists. also, i don't think he has a project for law and order. i have seen in my office since we started all these conversations about the presidential elections, for the first time in 20 years of being elected first as commissioner and six years as mayor, i have been getting e-mails of people telling me go back to your country. this has never happened to me. >> do you think it was compassionate to cut benefits for the police, mayor? >> i was raised in this country. i'm sorry? >> a couple years ago you cut benefits for the police. that didn't sound very compassionate. i appreciate you trying to have a political infomercial here but be fair.
>> don't tell me about -- don't tell me, the police department of the city of miami is now one of the most well-paid. we did cut everyone's salary, beginning mine, me. i cut my salary 60% because we are going to be in bankrupt. but now we support the police. >> i think hillary is waiting for trump's vp. >> let him finish the thought, please. >> actually, this budget that i introduced last week has $23 million more for the police department than last year's budget. the police department just approved a contract, the union, 95% of the members approved a contract for three years when we are giving them not only raises but also equipment. so we are taking care of the police department. we are taking care of public safety. that is the main goal of my administration and we support the police. and they know that we do. >> we support the police, too. >> thank you so much. very impressive fellow to come on this show. thank you for all the information. kellyanne, thank you for coming on. thank you for bringing a grenade with you.
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welcome back to "hardball." tomorrow, hillary clinton, the former secretary of state and the democratic presumed nominee heads to the swing state of new hampshire. she will be joined onstage by her former rival for the democratic nomination, vermont senator bernie sanders. sanders dealt her a big defeat in that state's primary back in february but that's a long way back. the joint appearance follows this past weekend's meeting of the democratic platform committee down in orlando where democrats advanced what one clinton adviser called quote,
the most progressive platform in the history of our party, close quote. the document of party issued positions had one sanders adviser claiming they got 80% of what they wanted changed in the platform. sanders supporters claimed a number of victories including $15 an hour for federal minimum wage, that's a commitment, expansion of social security, that means people who have moderate means when they retire get a lot more than they were getting, setting a price on greenhouse gas emissions, opposition to the death penalty which we will talk about what that means. sanders lost the fight over one of his top campaign parties, language opposing the tpp. the language still needs to be ratified by the entire democratic convention when they meet in philadelphia later this month. but the document reflects the influence sanders holds in the democratic party at least on the platform writing and his determination to move the party to the left despite losing the nomination. senior politics editor of the huffington post and reporter for the "new york times" join me. what does it mean in reality when you do things saying like
let's just start with one that was hardly ever debated in the campaign. simply saying we are against the death penalty. hillary clinton's for the death penalty. the united states congress recently supported all kinds of legislation affecting the death penalty in terrorism cases. does this have any meaning whatever and also calling it cruel and unusual? it's not unusual historically, certainly. we stopped drawing and quartering so the idea there's never been anything like capital punishment is not true. what does it mean? start with that one. we debated in high school. we will always debate it. does it mean anything that the party came out against it this week? >> i think in the abstract it does. the country if you look at any public opinion polls is sort of souring on the death penalty. you have seen conservative states sour on the death penalty. but it also puts hillary clinton in a bit of a bind. we reported at the huffington post she supported the death
penalty for the charleston shooter, dylann roof. now she has a platform that rebukes her on the death penalty. in practical terms, i think it does matter. in terms of actual legislative terms it matters very little. it's not like within the first year, whatever, of her presidency should she win the white house, she's going to get a moratorium or even end of the federal death penalty. it's just not going to happen. >> so if we picked up hitler in a raid or someone as evil, if that's possible to conceive, he gets three squares a day until he dies of natural causes? that's what the democratic party is committed to now? no capital punishment in any circumstance? >> if you are arguing the merits of the death penalty there's plenty of argument to say it should be eliminated. it's costly. >> i know. in principle. against it in principles is interesting to me. what are your thoughts about whether this was a real debate or not? was there a real debate with both sides having -- making their case? hillary clinton's case, for example, to keep it? >> there was a debate there but in some ways, you kind of pointed it out, the idea that hillary clinton has come out in support of the death penalty
tells you that even if they adopted this, even if there was this big debate, their nominee, presumptive nominee, soon to be nominee is against this. i once asked senator sanders why do you care so much about the platform. it's nonbinding. he said you know, reporters always try to politicize things. in reality, he never really gave me a straight answer. part of that answer is i think him and his supporters don't really understand or really know or really don't know whether or not this platform is really going to mean anything long term. even if hillary clinton becomes the president of the united states, she might be facing a congress full of republicans who are going to fight her on all these different things. you kind of listed this idea of $15 minimum wage, a tax on carbon and of course, bernie sanders is known as someone who talked about a lot of things, said a lot of things people always agree with but can you follow through and how can you follow through. being on the campaign trail with him for months, that was one of the number one issues even his supporters asked him. they would ask him all the time at town meetings or in rallies how are you going to get this stuff done. i agree with you, but how are you going to do this.
>> let's talk about the tpp. i thought it was fascinating, hillary's people did not buckle on that. they said we won't condemn it per se. we all know that within the last year or so, she's for it, she called it the gold standard. i was in japan and tokyo when bill clinton called it fabulous. they have always been suspect. are they anti-free trade? i don't believe so. are they anti-trade? i don't believe so. when shows when it came to the crunch, her peeps on the platform committee fought to oppose condemnation of that. >> two little reporting nuggets. she has never been a cynic of free trade. in the clinton white house in the '90s, she was a bit more skeptical about nafta than some of bill's advisers. that said, the people who pushed to keep the tpp valid in the platform were not necessarily clinton's people. they were obama's people. keep in mind this is president obama's party still. he's the sitting president. he will be until january. he still supports the tpp. there are people -- >> so does biden. >> yes. there are people in the white house who have a vision, it's very long shot, that somehow in the lame duck period, maybe this
thing will get resuscitated. i don't know if it happens but it certainly wouldn't have if the democratic platform said no to tpp. >> that's exactly what i think. that's my hunch. i think they want to try to squeeze it through and get it done because it's part of the legacy. thank you. part of the whole idea of free trade and everything else, guantanamo -- well, i wouldn't put guantanamo on the list. other things on the list, cuba. anyway, thank you both. up next, one week to go before the republican convention kicks off in cleveland. next monday, believe it or not. the republicans meet in cleveland next monday. there's still a lot of big name no-shows, including jeb bush ain't showing and speaking out about donald trump today on msnbc. that's coming up tonight.
i accept your nomination for the presidency of the united states. >> i accept your nomination for president. >> i proudly accept your nomination. >> wow. welcome back to "hardball." that was a look back at the republican conventions from 1980, jumping up to 2000. donald trump was promising, actually he promised an exciting star-studded production for this year's convention but things could look a little different as the party's deeply divided over their presumptive nominee, i love that phrase, presumptive. that will be gone soon. with the cleveland convention just one week away, the list of those not showing up continues to grow. of the 54 republican senators, for example, 16 have said they're not going to cleveland. six more have yet to make a decision. whether they will attend at all. also, among those staying away, formidable lineup of past presidents and former nominee, including both bushes and mitt romney. by the way, all three bushes
counting the father. in an exclusive interview by msnbc analyst nicole wallace, she spoke to jeb bush who said trump has been smart when it comes to exploiting opportunities but he said trump's ideas will only hurt the country. >> he's a master at understanding how the media works. more than anybody i have ever seen in politics. kudos for him for kind of creating the environment and then manipulating the environment to his effect. the tragedy of this, though, is that there isn't going to be a wall built and mexico's not going to pay for it. and there's not going to be a ban on muslims. none of that is -- this is all like an alternative universe that he created. the reality is that's not going to happen. and people are going to be deeply frustrated and the divides will grow in our country and this extraordinary country still, the greatest country on the face of the earth, will continue to stagger instead of soar. and that's the heartbreaking part of this is i think people are going to really feel betrayed.
>> joining me for tonight's roundtable, eli stokel from politico, april ryan, and howard fineman, msnbc political analyst and global editorial director for the huffington post. jump in. this is the roundtable. i don't think it will be less exciting because jeb doesn't show up. jeb would make it boring. i think trump beat the boring candidates. whatever you think of the politics of the thing, it's a pretty boring cut of people. they are not locked out, they won't show up because they got beaten. that's why they're not showing up. >> yeah, they're embarrassed by the result, embarrassed by donald trump. the party with donald trump as the figurehead no longer reflects their idea of what the republican party has always been. so no surprise the bushes and romney is staying away. >> who won the ideas argument in the republican party this year? the outsider raising hell about everything or the people preserving the commandments of the old conservative values system or principles, you might call them. >> here's the difference. you said to jump in so i will. the difference is in every convention i have covered, and
i'm both proud and a little embarrassed to say this will be my 19th, the losers show up to argue their case even in their loss. for example, all the way back to when i didn't cover, 1964, yes, barry goldwater and his troops took over the republican party, but the losers were there to make their case. nelson rockefeller, very famously stood on the podium and stared them down. that's not what's happening. there's one party in cleveland and another party that's nowhere near cleveland. it's as though none of these people want to exist, want to admit that the party of donald trump exists. it's extraordinary. it never happened before. >> let me jump in here. let's be real about this and put it in perspective. i don't think it's about the ideas versus the fact that donald trump took out all the air in the room and jeb bush was talking about how he's never seen anyone like this before, learning how to work the media. donald trump has it to his advantage that he knows he's a
news maker, he's a celebrity and any time he picks up the phone to call into any network, someone will listen. any idea whether it's build a wall or do whatever, talk foreign policy, is on the table. so it's not about ideas, it's about whatever donald trump called into that morning to say and especially when he doesn't use a teleprompter. that's the idea of the day. >> my point is there isn't a party anymore. there isn't really a functioning party. >> there's a party. >> there's no functioning republican party. >> it's fractured but there's a party. >> donald trump has taken over and everybody else has taken their ball and go home. it's extraordinary. >> the overarching theme, it's fractured. you have the donald trump party or donald trump group, then you have the conservative group, then you have the religious right, then the tea party, then hose who are dealing with the military. you have all of this all on the table and donald trump, the umbrella of it all. >> here's john kasich. this is interesting. none of the bush family who are the republican establishment, i would say, just the family itself, father and the two sons, they are the party, take out
mitt romney, who was the nominee last time around, four years ago, he was nominee for president. he's not showing up. and the host governor's not showing up. kasich finds himself in a peculiar position these days. the "washington post" reports today quote, he's responsible for helping to safeguard a republican convention he will not speak at. a nominee he will not support and an arena he will probably not even step foot into. let's have some fun here, guys. i want to start with eli. you have been very calm here. stop being calm. just jump in here. i want to know who the republican nominee for vice president is going to be. i say mike pence. challenge me, offer an alternative. >> i think pence makes the most sense, although i think the other best option is probably newt gingrich, just because he's been vetted and when you think about donald trump's going to say something crazy pretty much every day until election day. newt gingrich is better than anybody else on that list at going out and arguing and defending donald trump. he spent more time in front of a
trump. i think pence helps him in the rust belt and i think gingrich is the best defender. >> you're not strong on the six wives club? eli, you're not worried about the six wives club? it doesn't bother you they have six wives between them? >> at this point in the election, why do you think that would mean anything? >> you laugh, so go for it. >> it means a lot. if you have both of these people together on a presidential ticket they can't really go after what donald trump has been saying he wanted to go after, bill clinton. newt gingrich has had some of the same issues in front of him. he had to leave congress because of some of his issues. with newt gingrich, he can bring policy and politics and knows a bit about foreign policy. one thing i'm hearing the optics, you have two older gentlemen together that might not look so good when it comes to the optics. >> your thoughts about mike pence.
>> let me offer reporting inside the trump camp. the conservatives both philosophically and strategically want mike pence, no doubt about it. donald trump himself wants some sizzle and he's not sure that mike pence is the guy to offer that sizzle. don't forget that's what donald trump is, a salesman. >> the sizzle is a guy like him as normal as he is would actually say yes. the roundtable will be coming back. howard is doing a good job. this is fascinaing stuff. stay with us.
eli, tell me something i don't know. >> you've seen the platform committee already up ending the republican platform to make the party principal look just like donald trump. tpp out of the platform. america first language, in the platform. the constitution defiing same sex marriage between a manned man and a woman, out. >> not a conservative party anymore. >> not about the rnc convention next week, about the naacp convention next week. monday, hillary clinton address the naacp convention anothers and we're hearing rumbling still the naacp is anticipaing possibly wednesday donald trump speaking at the naacp convention. we're waiting to hear donald trump's decision. >> wednesday and then thursday accepts the nomination in cleveland. big week for him. howard. >> you mentioned evan bayh earlier jumping back into politics in indiana. he was a little hesitant. that will be a tough race. even though he has money saved
that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. all in with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> i am the law and order candidate. >> seven days from cleveland. >> i think he is trying to campaign as a racial healer. >> the auditions for trumps a veep continue. >> i think women have to be able to choose. >> tonight, where the search stands amidst the chaotic convention planning. then, my interview with the black lives matter leader arrested in baton rouge. as political backlash goes. >> when you say black lives matter, that's inherently racist. >> tonight, what the dallas police chief is getting right in reaction to the shooting.