tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC July 13, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
i'd like to see some fist cuffs down there on the floor. just shut me up now. >> you want 1968, chicago. anyway, thank you very much. >> always a pleasure. >> that's "hardball" for now. thank you for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. >> tonight on "all in" -- >> this man is the nominee of the party of lincoln. we are watching it become the party of trump. >> after a week of escalating racial tension, clinton calls trump ignorant and dangerous. his campaign is as divisive as any we have seen in our lifetimes. >> we'll look at her attack strategy as polls tighten in some swing states. then trump meets with his vp finalists. >> it's a little bit like the apprentice. >> but as he selects his latest team member, news he's seeking millions in legal damages from a
former aide. plus -- >> she didn't earn the nickname notorious rbg for nothing. >> plus, trump's response to justice ginsburg's criticism. and aun tenor all-star fail. when "all in" starts right now. >> good evening from new york, i'm chris hayes. with polls showing racial tensions reaching new highs and the country reeling from a week of violence and pain that expose said raw differences between americans, hillary clinton today went to the old state capital in springfield, illinois, where nearly 160 years ago, abraham lincoln proclaimed the house divided against itself cannot stand, to give a speech about race and division that doubles as a full-out assault on the politics of racial white grievance that are inseparable from donald trump's presidential campaign. >> his campaign is as divisive as any we have seen in our
lifetimes. it is built on spoking mistrust and pitting american against american. it's there in everything he says and everything he promises to do as president. this man is the nominee of the party of lincoln. we are watching it become the party of trump. and that's not just a huge loss for our democracy. it is a threat to it. because donald trump's campaign adds up to an ugly, dangerous message to america. >> trump has actually been, by the standards of donald trump, relatively restrained in his reaction to last week's events. but even when trump is moderating his rhetoric in an attempt to seem more presidential, even when he seems
to be trying to reach out to african americans, he ends up, as clinton pointedly noted today, making it all about himself. >> there is still some black americans who believe that the system is biased against them. what do you say to them? >> well, i've been saying, even against me, the system is rigged. when i ran as a -- well, for president, i could see what was going on with the system, and the system is rigged. what i'm saying is, they're not necessarily wrong. there are certainly people where unfortunately that comes into play. and i'm not saying that, i can really relate it very much to myself. >> trump is also returning to one of his signature tactics, fabricating events to demonize his political opponents and push for his agenda. he's previously claimed that thousands of new jersey muslims were seen on television celebrating the september 11th attacks, a claim that flies in the face of all evidence anyone
can find. last night in two different appearances, he was at it again, this time regarding the man who murdered five police officers in dallas. >> the maniac that some people asked for a moment of silence, for him, for the killer! for the killer. >> when somebody called for a moment of silence for this maniac that shot the five police, you just see what's going on, and it's a very, very sad situation. >> as tpm notes, there is no evidence this moment of silence never happens. even clovis said he's seen no evidence of a moment of silence for the shooter. last night paul ryan was asked how he can support a man like trump. >> it concerns me when the republican leadership is supporting somebody who is openly racist and has said islamophobic statements, wants to shut down our borders, can you tell me, how can you morally justify your support for this kind of candidate, somebody who
can be very destructive for our country? >> first of all, a few things, that basically means you're going to help elect hillary clinton and i don't think hillary clinton is going to support any of the things that you stand for if you're a republican. i'm going to go fight for the principles and the solutions that i believe in and the candidate that i think is so much more likely to put those into law because i know hillary clinton won't do that. it's a binary choice. it is either donald trump or hillary clinton. you don't get a third option. it's one or the other. and i know where i want to go. >> it's that attitude among conservatives and republicans and no matter what outrageous thing trump says or does, that hillary clinton is automatically no matter what, somehow worse, that is probably a large part of what is keeping this race as close as it is. the latest national poll shows trump within three points of clinton and a slew of new battleground states show trump with a slight edge. joining me now, keith ellison of
minnesota, early bernie sanders supporter who today endorsed hillary clinton. so you know a thing or two about binary choices. i thought that was such a good question to paul ryan. you have said he has said racist things. how can you support him? paul ryan says, yes, but otherwise it's hillary clinton. what's your reaction as someone who has to work with paul ryan? that's a colleague of yours. >> you know, i like paul ryan, and to a certain extent, i feel bad for him. but this is a moment of moral choice. and if he says that hillary clinton is worse than a openly racist, muslim-hating misogynist who wants to build a wall to exclude mexicans, who thinks that an american judge because of his mexican lineage cannot be fair to him, if you're saying that hillary clinton is worse than all that, then i just think
that that just is ridiculous, it's absurd, and it really starts to damage the inspector's credibility. and i don't say that easily, because i think that, you know, paul ryan, you know, could be a great leader for our country. but i think that he is in a moral choice moment, and so far, he's choosing wrong. >> i wanted to go through some of the polling on race in the country right now. because obviously, you know, race and -- is always a sub text in american politics, sometimes it's just right out there in front and it fluctuates. in the era of obama, it's impossible to avoid, in any day, polls showing americans worried a great deal about race relations has spiked, particularly in the wake of the black lives matter movement. today it's 69%. last year, it was 38%. so how do you -- you're someone
who represent black, white citizens, people of color, people of all faiths. how do you think about the politics of this in this particular moment? >> you know, this is a moment where leaders just have to call for human solidarity. we have to focus on what we all share. so when i go back to the fifth congressional district of minnesota, minneapolis and the suburbs around it, including st. anthony, by the way, i talk to constituents about what matters to them most. and i listen to them. what i hear people talking about are things that anybody of any color or any religion or any sexual orientation can get with. they cannot earn a decent living if they're working class folks. they're worried about retirement if they're in their 40s and 50s. worried about sending their kids to college. if we focus on what really matter, we can get there. you have to talk about the issue of race, but i can talk to white constituents about racism, if i at least acknowledge that life is not a crystal stair for them either.
>> right. >> so if i say, look -- >> you're not giving them a long lesson in their privilege in those interactions. >> right, right. how do you go to somebody white looking at a foreclosure of their home and tell them that it's worse for african americans. they're like, maybe so, but i'm the one looking at being homeless. so you gotta talk to people about the fact that all americans, of all colors, this economy's not working for any of us. you know, the fact is, yes, statistically, african americans and latinos are getting hit harder, but it's something that we can have real solidarity across racial lines on, to raise the minimum wage, to lower the cost of going to college, to make sure there's real consumer protection. we have a chance for racial solidarity because all of us, unless you're in the top 1%, are really struggling in this economy. like you take for example the
environmental movement is a big deal in my district. you might say, yeah, more african americans are suffering from asthma and air pollution-related illnesses, but there's a lot of white folks, a lot of white kids with inhalers. so you just got to talk to the reality of everyone, not exclude anyone. make sure that people know that you care about them too. i think if you do that, we can get there. >> representative keith ellison, always a pleasure to talk to you. thank you for your time. >> yes, sir. >> joining me now, anita dunn, senior adviser to president obama's 2008 combine and served as white house communications director for the obama administration. anita, let me start with you. the speech today by hillary clinton, which i thought was quite good, you know, she is trying to do this very difficult thing which is to try to re-create the obama coalition, which is a coalition that knits together a minority white voters and massive majority of all other voters to form a majority
and she's doing it as a person who is going to succeed the first black president. >> well, she also is running to be the first woman ever elected president, and i think if you look at recent polling, you see that gender gap is really widening. not the least of which because of donald trump and what he stands for and everything he has said. no, it's an interesting dynamic right now. hillary clinton in the last week, has addressed character issues, not by going out to talk about character issues, but showing her character, going out and at this time of great divisiveness and unrest in our country, you know, talking about what we need to do to move forward. i think we always tell candidates, show, don't tell, what you're all about. i think her speech today was an important speech that people are going to look at and they're going to see not just the attacks on donald trump, but also her admission that maybe she'd been part of the polarization problem as well and she could do better. >> cornell, that to me is what
continues to be so striking about the polling data we're seeing. this is someone who basically isn't running -- in donald trump, isn't running a campaign by any standard of anyone else, 50 employees to 800, he's spent zero dollars on ads to tens of millions. okay? he's said things that have offended every different group, many different groups of the country. and you know, it's a 4.5 point ball game. the gravitational force of that pollarization, we are getting to see just how powerful it is up close. >> no, if you are the clinton campaign, there has to be some concern here for democrats across the board. when you do see that we democrats are spending money and running, i think, a fairly good campaign, and you see the public polling that's out today, she's not pulling ahead. and she's still running behind sort of obama's performance
numbers. but what she's doing right now, i think, is important. she is defining him. and one thing we know about politics, if you get to define your opponent, you're probably going to beat your opponent. i think she's done a very good job of defining him. i think he's helped along the way with that. and to that speaker who was given a question to speaker ryan earlier, i mean, i hear the same thing in focus groups all the time, with young voters who rejected donald trump because they see him as a racist. and one young woman referred to him as kkk. but the problem with some of that obama coalition, their disqualification of donald trump has not automatically went they move and support hillary clinton. so she still has to turn a corner here and give them something to vote for, which i got a feeling she will start to do here fairly shortly. >> a huge part of the fluctuation we're seeing in the polling is post him wrapping up
the election. he's sort of gone around 39, 40, 41%, that's basically the floor for a general -- for a major party nominee. >> the floor. >> it's her that's sort of moved up and down. i think the e-mail story last week, extremely careless in people's minds, has been part of what's been difficult for her to pull ahead. >> well, you know, chris, i think that's a huge part of it. what we have coming up, though, we have the two conventions. there are really three places during this process where people's attention is focused on kind of leadership issues. vice presidential selection. conventions. and debates. the convention is the opportunity to kind of tell america what you are about. going to cornell's point, which i totally agree with, it's not going to be enough to disqualify donald trump, who does a pretty good job of that on a daily -- >> right, because he can't sink below 39 or 40. >> but she does need to go out there and tell people what she's
about. i think the convention will be the beginning of that process. >> i want you to react this the beginning of this person's speech, where she talks about imagining yourself as a trump supporter. take a listen. >> let's put ourselves in the shoes of donald trump's supporters. we may disagree on the causes and the solutions to the challenges we face. but i believe, like anyone else, they're trying to figure out their place in a fast-changing america. >> what's your reaction to that? >> i think the fast-changing america is something that is gripping a lot of middle america. and i think part of that fast-changing america is the demographics. >> right. >> to your point, chris, we have a president in barack obama who got -- who is the first president to ever win that office with such a low percentage of the white voters. and, look, in a decade, two
decades, you're talking about a close to 50/50 country. so there's a lot of anxiousness out there. and i think that's where most of donald trump's support rests, in that anxiousness. democrats need to give voice to that anxiousness. one of the things you see going on at the same time is voters, top-tier issue concern, rising about the division in our politics. so that's a place for opportunity, i think. >> i had a thought today, wasn't it crazy that period of time when a bunch of people convinced us the most pressing issue for us was the deficit. that seems really odd, like another universe now. thanks to you both. still to come, with the republican convention five days away, organizers are $6 million short of their budget, speakers' list is spitill tbd. plus an update on the search for trump's vp. that story right after this two-minute break.
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>> we have just learned that donald trump will announce his vp pick on friday in new york, according to paul manafort. this news coming on the same day trump is demanding $10 million in damages from a former campaign staffer, accusing him of trying to spread suggestive rumors about senior campaign staff. the legal claim first reported by the associate press is against former senior campaign consultant sam numburg, who was fired last year. the claim alleges a number of leaked incidents in violation of a confidentiality agreement. meanwhile, lawyers are fighting to keep trump's testimony in a lawsuit against trump university, from being released. a decision that is left up to, and you probably remember this name, u.s. district judge gonzalo curiel, who trump has said poses a conflict of
interest because of his mexican heritage, since trump is building a wallwall. all of this happening while trump trying to narrow down candidates for a running mate. he's met with gingrich, jeff sessions and his older children met with chris christie yesterday. joining me now, howard dean. you've been in politics a long time. have you ever heard of the principle essentially initiating legal action against the staffer mid campaign for $10 million? >> the answer is no, but this is so classic trump. trump has used lawsuits as a weapon throughout his entire business career, and whether they're frivolous or not has nothing to do with any of it. what he knows is if he can sue somebody for $10 million, that somebody, especially if it's a consultant is not likely to have
the money to defend it. so then it goes away as long as he signs a non-disclosure act agreement and so on and so forth. this is so classic donald trump. >> remember, we recall here that it's the lawsuit against trump university that has precipitated his week-long rant against the ethnic heritage of the american judge who is presiding over it, which is probably his campaign's low point. being immersed in a whole bunch of ongoing legal matters is part of who he is, but also can be quite politically damaging. >> i agree. and i was chortling to myself as you were playing the video, the pictures of the judge and trump. so here's trump's tactic. he slanders the judge and goes after his ethnic heritage, then he says he can't give him a fair trial because he slandered him, i think the judge is thinking over this pretty carefully. he didn't want to get reversed. no judge does.
my hope is, for the sake of the judicial system, he'll slam trump as he deserves to be. but your basic point, this is not a good thing for any candidate. on the other hand, this is a candidate who seems not to be able to -- not to have to apply any of the rules that normally you apply in campaigns, to himself. >> so you've got now, it looks like the field has been narrowed, right, for this vp position. mike pence, governor of indiana, most traditional. little interesting to jeff sessions, the senator from alabama came in, an early supporter and christie and newt gingrich. how do you think this decision should be made, whether or not, how he's making it? >> you know, i can't tell you. because first of all, i don't know how he's making it. i know newt fairly well. he's very funny about this. at one point he said, yeah, i don't expect to be vetted, because he'll probably make up his mind on a whim with a day to go. who knows. this guy is totally unorthodox.
maybe he's flipping coins or playing three-card monty to see who he wants to pick. >> we got some news today that sean hannity chartered a flight for newt to visit trump in new york. hannity's on his air being like, i'm really going to be disappointed if it's not newt gingrich. now he's flying newt gingrich to indiana where trump's plane broke down, which is why they're meeting in indiana, to make sure he gets his audition. >> yeah, we'll find out on friday. this is too difficult to handicap. trump is so unorthodox that i think it's almost impossible to have any reasonable prediction about who he's going to pick. >> one of the interesting political science results we got out of 2008, the sarah palin choice actually really did hurt mccain, that there were points that came off him, which is a rare thing to happen in either direction. there is actual downside risk if you pick the wrong person, but it doesn't seem like any of
these people will be that for trump. >> i think that's probably right. what mccain didn't realize was that sarah palin was his demographic. he thought he was appealing to younger women, and in fact, sarah palin appealed to people who were like mccain, old white guys, who thought she was sexy to skin a moose. that was a miscalculation, it didn't work. they didn't do the vetting, they didn't do the polling. i doubt trump's done polling either, but i do think he probably wants a more establishment person so he can connect and have a dialogue with these people he's offending every single day in his own party. >> i'm rooting for gingrich because i think they'll be the most entertaining. howard dean, appreciate it. still to come, ruth bader ginsburg isn't backing down from her criticism of trump, and trump is rapidly escalating his attacks on justice ginsburg, as you might imagine. the latest on that after this short break. i mean i really see a lot of
great - you know, when you watch your show and all of the other shows...
>> it's pretty rare that politicians, much less the speaker of the house, are asked to remark on comments made by a sitting supreme court justice, comments that have nothing to do with that justice's official capacity. the justice in question in this case is ruth bader ginsburg. it was not part of lawyers arguing before the court or opinion, they were just interviews about donald trump. and her comments criticized him. house speaker paul ryan was asked to respond. >> i find it very peculiar, and i think it's out of place for an appointed branch of government. that shows bias to me. those of us who are in the elected branch of government, who get elected to things, i
think that's perfectly in the realm. but for someone on the supreme court, who is going to be calling balls and strikes in the future, based upon whatever the next president and congress does, that strikes me as inherently biased and out of the realm. i think that's something she should not have done. i don't think that shows she intends on being impartial in the future. >> josh earnest was also asked about it. >> does the white house have any concerns about that kind of language from a supreme court justice, or feel that it's appropriate for her to be making those kinds of -- opining in that way about the presidential election? >> well, she didn't earn the nickname notorious rbg for nothing. >> eye roll. so what did justice ginsburg say about donald trump? we'll tell you next.
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>> i don't think it was good for him, and i don't think it's something that a supreme court judge should do. given the fact that they're probably going to be facing some kind of decision in the future. and this clearly calls into question her bias. >> so supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg isn't mincing words when it comes to donald trump. she's drawn criticism for it. she said, i can't imagine what this place would be, i can't imagine what the country would be with donald trump as our president. for the country, it could be four years. for the court, i don't even want
to contemplate that. she added, now it's time to move to new zealand. i don't want to think about the possibility, but if it should be, then everything is up for grabs. monday, she said this. he's a faker, he has no consi consistency about him. he says what really comes to his head at the moment. he really has an ego. how has he gotten away with not turning over his tax returns? the press seems to be gentle on him for that. trump responded, i think it's highly inappropriate a united states judge gets involved in the campaign. i think it's a disgrace to the court and she should apologize to the court. then he said, just ginsburg has embarrassed all by making very dumb statements about me. her mind is shot. and this. is she going to apologize to me for her misconduct? big mistake by an incompetent judge. and this. if i win the presidency, we will swamp justice ginsburg with real
judges and real legal opinions. he even went so far as to question her mental faculties. >> for her to come out and so say the kind of things, there's almost something wrong with her. i don't think anybody's ever seen that before. >> so are you questioning her mental capacity? >> yeah, i think i am. i think i'm questioning perhaps her mental capacity, yeah. >> sure, why not, i'll do it. joining me now, co-author of the life and times of ruth bader ginsburg. you know her better than i do. you have a bit of a personal relationship with her, you've written a book about her. the first interview, i was like, she got out over her skis. but she's done this two more times. like she wants to attack donald trump. >> my experience of her, she does not get out over her skis. she's deliberate in every public
pronouncement. i think it needs to be seen as someone who has played by the rules her entire career. she's an institutionalist, she believes in the norms of the constitution, of the court. and i believe based on her statements that she is incandescently furious about the normalization of donald trump. because he stands as an affront to everything that she has worked for her entire life, including respected norms, including respecting the judiciary, civil rights and her commitment to feminism. i think that has made her so angry, that she's broken there any sort of precedent that has ever existed before. of hers. >> his response is not surprising at all. we'll swamp her with opinions. i don't know what that means. >> it's interesting verbiage. >> that's not surprising. but we've seen ruth bader ginsburg in public life and on
the court for some time. scalia would occasionally say something -- >> clarence thomas went on rush limbaugh. >> there was the scalia duck hunt with vice president cheney in 2002. >> sat at the fox news table at the white house correspondents dinner. >> exactly. so i think it's surprising coming from her. the point i make, if we had a bush v. gore situation, this -- it doesn't create any tangible problem, because justices can do whatever they want. but it does create political perception problems. >> right. and we're hearing from some of the people who admire who wish she had been more specific in her critique. but again, i think this is a product of how angry and upset she is. and she believes that extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures. i want to point out to you, that she's usually the master of the sub tweet. she is not somebody who levies insults against people lightly. >> right, right. in her opinions, particularly, you can tell who it's at, but it's just up to the --
>> it's very polite. she was close friends with scalia. when she was asked about it, she would talk about how this shows we can disagree without being disagreeable. she's out there calling trump a faker. she's not treating him like a polite adversary because she doesn't think he merits it, and she thinks the risk is very great. >> and if he wins, it's all gone, like basically the eventuality of him winning is so cataclysmic it's like some inverse pascal's wager. like i might as well say what i believe, because lord all-mighty if he wins, the house is on fire. >> yeah. >> i just want to remind me, when we talk about the norms of the court, 120 days into a nominee who has not even gotten a hearing, which is a pretty egregious violation of afe really important norm, which is advise and consent. this has never happened before, at least not in recent times. >> justice ginsburg talks all the time about how the senate
vote to confirm her was 97-3, that obviously included many republicans. yes, it was a democratic-controlled senate and a democratic president who appointed her, but i noticed orrin hatch did not condemn her this week. he was her grand champion on judiiciar judiciary. so those norms are gone too. the norms in which a president a year before the end of his term n nominates and the senate holds a hearing, those norms are long since gone. i've always thought that's a deep affront to how she thinks the judiciary should function. the american people have to decide. that's not an independent judiciary if you're putting it up to a vote. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. still to come, as the republican convention faces a slew of problems, new signs today the stop trump effort may be within striking distance of, at the very least, making it interesting. don't go away.
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♪ oer the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming ♪ >> thing 1 tonight, performing the national anthem in front of a large crowd is not easy. the star spangled banner has tripped up many an entertainer. sometimes the lyrics are difficult to remember. our kinder neighbors to the north have a less demanding national anthem to sing, but they do have a history of botched performance as canadians. they're just like us. and last night, before major league all-star's game in san diego, the tenors were invited to sing "o canada," everything
was going swimmingly until about the fourth line into the song. ♪ ♪ we're all brothers and sisters ♪ ♪ all lives matter to the great ♪ ♪ >> if you're not familiar with the canadian national anthem, i'll spare you the tease and just tell you right now, those are not the lyrics to the canadian national anthem. a quasi explanation as to why the anthem was altered in thing 2, next. ressn. ressn. and everywhere i look... i'm reminded to stick to my plan. including preservision areds 2. my doctor said preservision areds 2 has the exact nutrient formula that the national eye institute recommends to help reduce the risk of progression of moderate to advanced amd... after 15 years of clinical studies. preservision areds 2. because my eyes are everything. & in a world held back by compromise, businesses need the agility to do one thing & another.
only at&t has the network, people, and partners to help companies be... local & global. open & secure. because no one knows & like at&t. ♪ ♪ we're all brothers and sisters ♪ ♪ all lives matter to the great ♪ >> that's the canadian quartet of the tenors altering the lyrics to the canadian national anthem. instead of the lyric "with glowing hearts, we see thee
rise ♪ he also held up a sign "all lives matter" which is essentially used to undermine the message black lives matter. he caught the other tenors by surprise during his solo, they continued on singing the anthem in french. not surprisingly, the group received backlash from their fellow canadians. the group apologized for pereira altering the lyrics and inserting a political and what many consider a dismissive statement in its place. called his action selfish, noting the other members of the group were shocked and embarrassed by the incident. the tenors are deeply sorry for the disrespectful and misguided lack of judgment by one member of the group acting as a lone wolf. the singer released an audio statement noting black lives do matter and tweeted he had hoped for a positive statement that would bring us all together. that was my singular motivation when i said "all lives matter."
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five, count them, five days until the republican convention kicks off in cleveland. i will, of course, be there. organizers are still $6 million short of their budget for the big event. the host committee raised aroun primary cycle, only about $1 million since trump became the candidate. most elderly statesmen are staying away from the convention, including the past two presidents and nominees. many who form the life blood of the party are dreading what's usually a big party. one saying, i would rather attend the public hanging of a good friend. it's now been a week since trump said he would be releasing his list of convention speakers, and still no sign of an official
line-up. tom cotton has confirmed he'll be speaking and rudy guiliani is also set to speak. along with mitch mcconnell, paul ryan, and trump's family. the platform committee has signed off on changes to the republican platform with a new nods to the presumptive nominee, including new language to manage better trade deals to put america first and also a physical wall on the southern border. they reject-- tomorrow poses th remaining hurdle in donald trump's path to formally accepting the republican nomination, that's when anti-trump forces on the rules
committee will try to pass a measure unbinding gop delegates, allowing them to vote their conscious, instead of following primary results. that stop trump effort may be within striking distance of forcing a big messy debate on the convention floor. as chaotic as that could get, the real mess may be happening outside the convention. protesting the convention in an open carry state. next. romantic why pause toc take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas for pulmonary hypertension, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away
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who do you talk to for military advice right now? i'm hillary clinton and i approved this message. well, i watch the shows. i mean i really see a lot of great - you know, when you watch your show and all of the other shows... while dold trump watched tv, as secretary ostate, hillary clinton negotiated a cease fire in gaza. a reduction in nuclear weapons... took on vladimir putin... and std up against the traffickg of human beings. a steady leader in an unsteady world. >> the law of the state of ohio,
we have open carry. which means we'll follow the law. if the law says people can have open carry, that's what it says. whether i agree with it or not is another issue. >> now, no guns will be allowed inside the republican convention, which is, of course, controlled by the secret service. but outside the secure perimeter, the laws of the state of ohio apply, which means anyone who owns a gun can openly carry it in public, that includes the 5,000 delegates, 15,000 journprotesters and journalists already descending on the city. the new black panther party, a somewhat fringe, militant group disowned by many of the original panthers founders, described as anti-semitic, they say they'll be armed too. hundreds of law enforcement officers will be on hand, but if
that's not enough, bikers for trump will be there too. >> we'll be in position to help protect the police. i myself won't be carrying a gun, but i can't speak for the rest. i know many bikers do have concealed carry permits. >> we're expecting a record-setting heat wave across america next week too, if all that wasn't enough. mole, since you're there in cleveland, how does it look, in terms of where all these people are going to go, because i know a lot of people, obviously people descend on a place for a convention, but given the kind of atmosphere of frankly really intense violence that's happened this year in the united states, but also the violence we've seen in some protests and trump events, what's the physical lay-out feel like there? >> well, look, even the barriers have not been set up yet.
the preparations are still in early stages, as far as the logistics. so what you describe is certainly the potential for a combustible mix, but i don't think most of those people have landed yet. i personally have been in the basement of the convention center, watching the platform committee meetings, and that has been peaceful, except for rhetorical rhetorically. but the streets of cleveland, there are no signs of actual disturbance or gathering yet. you don't see people camped out in preparation yet. i think that will all be next week. >> nick, you had a piece today about white grievance and the trump campaign, it gets at a lot of things we've seen in this campaign. and one aspect of the wrenching towards the middle of the discourse, what were extremely fringe parts of american political life, avowed anti-s
anti-semittics. >> it's not that trump has lured them in, it's set a predicate by talking about a muslim ban and black lives matter in the way that he has. i think he's made people feel, it's okay to talk about the way i feel, it's okay to talk about these things. and that in turn, has driven some people towards a sense of whiteness as a political identity. and it's normally kind of submerged and subsumed and other things, patriotism, america. he's encouraged people to think of themselves a little bit as their own special interest group. >> somebody uses the phrase identity of politics for white people. >> and this is a white nationalist figure. he said trump has introduced millions of people to our ideas in a way that they can grasp. >> and a lot of those people will be in cleveland. >> yes. and a lot of those people are
provocateurs in a real way. and a lot of people are online, in obscure conferences. they're anonymous. they don't really often have the courage to come out of the shadows. i'm very curious if we see that kind of combustion for the convention. >> there's been this conversation, i think it's been a useful one in many ways, about empathy, particularly in the wake of what was such a horrible week last week, putting yourself in someone's shoes. and i've been obsessing over, if i was the person charged with security for the cleveland convention, given what happened last week, how unbelievably impossible the task would seem in certain respects. how is cleveland going about preparing for this. >> we've seen the reports that they're preparing for a heavy security presence. i don't know the details of the police training and to what extent they're going to make sure that the officers try to de-escalate whatever conflicts
there are. weave seen in a lot of protests that that's an important thing and the police have a big role to play in how these conflicts play out. but as nick was say,iing, we ha no idea who is going to show up for this withing, what kind of anger is being released, how much seething anger is out there, and how the efforts to unify have been mostly temporary and not that well received. so it will be interesting -- i've had a lot of my friends and relatives tell me, be careful out there, other reporters bringing gas masks and bulletproof vests and really taking precautions for what could be a really scary situation and of course we hope it's not. >> and i should say this. this was 2004 republicans in new york, and there was a huge amount of protests and demonstrations. i think a lot have actually --
the nypd some things well and some things not well at all. a ton of arrests they were unable to justify later. a huge lawsuit from all that. i think we should be clear about the fact is, there's an important kind of focusing role of these conventions, in terms of public dissent. and also important for the powers that be provide security, that they provide a platform and outlet for that. >> there's nothing more powerful than to protest power under the power of protection. an armed society is a polite society. a pretty good chance to see cleveland how polite it is, if both sides are armed. >> and we should make the point, even if the law allows it, most people don't go around, we've not had the cultural conversion that would be necessary for that to be a sort of normal thing.
molly ball in cleveland, see you in a little bit. molly and nick, thank you both. that is "all in" for this evening. the rachel maddow show starts right now. >> thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. one of my favorite political ads of all time, ran on tv in a presidential campaign before i was born, so i've only seen it on youtube. but it's great for a couple of reasons. one is that tv ads are usually like a minute long or maybe 30 seconds long. this one, weirdly, is 19 seconds long, which is strange. even more strange than that is the fact that it has zero script. it has no words. it's just this kind of creepy and then hilarious and then ultimately sort of nauseating laugh track. you have to listen right to the end for the nauseous part of it. but that's the whole ad.