tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBCW July 13, 2016 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT
flamboyant former mayor of london boris johnson to be the uk's new foreign secretary, essentially their secretary of state. you may remember that he says president obama is a kenyan with an anti-colonial mindset. well, now he'll be great britain's top diplomat. which should be interesting. the uk is our closest overseas ally, and i'm sure everything will be fine. but this whole special relationship thing could get a little awkward fairly soon. that does it for us tonight. we will see you again tomorrow. now it's time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. >> rachel, where are you going to be friday morning 11:00 a.m.? >> um. uh -- >> because -- because you know what happens. >> yeah. >> that is the moment when donald trump reveals to the world. >> do you think he's going to do it at trump tower? >> of course. where else? it's the capital of republican politics now, trump tower. >> there's also the trump plaza. you never know. could be somewhere else. the trump ice rink. >> but maybe -- i think they might just come down the escalator together. why not? >> with a rose in the teeth. >> why not? it's worked so far. >> thank you, lawrence. >> thank you, rachel.
well, that is our breaking news tonight. at 11:00 a.m. on friday morning in new york city donald trump will announce his vice presidential running mate. we will take a closer look at the front-runners for that vice presidential nomination. and i will place my bet. and donald trump is at war with ruth bader ginsburg over something she said that many so-called supreme court experts believe is unprecedented and they believe that because they seem to believe that supreme court history began when they were born. >> we are watching it become the party of trump. >> i'm going to tell a lot of stories at the convention. >> this man is the nominee of the party of lincoln. >> you're going to use a teleprompter at the convention? >> i'm probably going to use a teleprompter. >> i'm honored to be considered. and humbled to be considered. >> i'm narrowing it down. i'm at three. potentially four.
but in my own mind i probably am thinking about two. >> i do not know what he's talking about. >> it's a little bit like "the apprentice." >> you're like a solid guy also. >> i would like to see the most progressive person possible become secretary clinton's vice presidential nominee. >> he submitted to crooked hillary clinton. >> donald trump spent years peddling trump university, a sham college. >> all these people who think donald trump is going to be great for their pocketbook because he's rich, he's going to be horrible for their pocketbook because he's the opposite of calm. >> i am the law and order candidate. >> he is walking volatility. >> if you want somebody who divides us up, donald trump is your guy. >> we've never had anybody with this kind of temperament. >> donald trump's campaign adds up to an ugly, dangerous message to america. >> this is the last word on campaign 2016.
with big breaking political news tonight, we are now 37 hours away from learning who will be donald trump's running mate. you can expect cable news to start those countdown clocks any minute now. 37 hours away. a short time ago donald trump tweeted, "i will be making the announcement of my vice presidential pick on friday at 11:00 a.m. in manhattan. details to follow." on a day of tough polling news for the clinton campaign showing hillary clinton's lead over donald trump narrowing in battleground states, producing a statistical tie in most of those states, the least experienced republican presidential nominee in history handed over the final vetting of his possible vice presidential nominees to the least experienced vetters in the history of vetting. his kids. and with all of the best
possible republican vice presidential candidates refusing to even be considered for the role of donald trump's vp, meaning people like john kasich, marco rubio, senator bob corker, donald trump and his vetters are now left with a list of men, and they're all men, who have no better options in politics than to run for vp, even in a losing campaign. here's what donald trump said today in an interview about the men on his list. >> so you had breakfast at governor pence's place. >> i did. >> the kids were there. how'd that go? >> it went really well. high-quality person. wonderful guy. he's always been very respectful to me and really appreciate -- you know, appreciates what i've done. politically. and we had a great meeting. newt gingrich is coming in today to see me here. we're waiting around. and then i'm going out to san diego where we have a big fund-raiser for the republican party, the rnc. who has by the way -- >> so basically, you're down to two.
>> no. i'll tell you. chris christie is somebody i've liked a long time. he's a total professional. he's a good guy, by the way. a lot of people don't understand that. but i'm narrowing it down. i'm at three. potentially four. but in my own mind i probably am thinking about two. >> chris christie is of course the worst possible choice for donald trump's vice presidential nomination. and even donald trump's kids should know that. a recent poll showed his disapproval rating is the lowest in the history of new jersey polling. so donald trump would be picking a candidate who couldn't win his home state and would have to take some time off in september to testify in the criminal trials of two people who worked for him and have been charged with crimes involving the closure of lanes on the george washington bridge. and here is what donald trump said about chris christie's own personal involvement in the george washington bridge scheme. >> so chris, who's a friend of
mine, he hit me hard. and i said i've got to hit him at least once. so i won't do this a lot. but look, here's the story. the george washington bridge. he knew about it. he knew about it. he knew about it. totally knew about it. >> he knew about it. convicted in the court of trump. and 73-year-old newt gingrich would not have to give up a real job in order to run for vice president. and being the vice president to a president who knows nothing would make newt gingrich possibly the most powerful vice president in history. and if a trump-gingrich ticket loses, newt gingrich speaking fees will skyrocket after the campaign. but newt gingrich can be almost as polarizing a figure as donald trump, which leaves 57-year-old mike pence, the governor of indiana, who has been planning to run for re-election even though indiana polls indicate that that could be a hard climb. mike pence is a darling of republican conservatives.
he has the washington experience as a member of congress that donald trump has indicated he's looking for. and in the time that donald trump and newt gingrich have had six wives between them, mike pence has had only one. mike pence is calmer and steadier than chris christie or newt gingrich in public speaking. not ch of attack dog. >> i just want to pick somebody who's very good. somebody who's solid, who's smart. i'm not looking for an attack dog. >> and so mike pence it is. if he can pass the vetting of the trump children. vice presidential vetting has been a haphazard affair in the trump campaign. you'll remember when ben carson was put in charge of vice presidential vetting for about five minutes before someone in the trump campaign came to their senses and clarified that ben carson wasn't in charge of vetting the vp and the campaign manager corey lewandowski would be heavily involved. corey lewandowski has since been fired, and a couple months ago a veteran vetter was hired by the
trump campaign. a.b. culvahouse, a man who you have to vet to find out his first name, which is arthur. why he doesn't like to admit that his first name is arthur is anyone's guess. a.b. culvahouse has been a lawyer on both sides of the republican presidential vetting process, helping potential nominees get through the vetting and conducting the vetting himself. most famously for john mccain's 2008 campaign. the campaign that produced the worst vice presidential nominee since spiro agnew who was chosen by richard nixon in 1968 and pled guilty to tax evasion in 1973. a.b. culvahouse led the vetting team that produced sarah palin and changed american politics perhaps forever. the trump children as first-time vetters cannot do worse than a.b. culvahouse did the last time he vetted a vice
presidential nominee. what donald trump doesn't have on the vp list tonight is someone who can clearly help him in the polls. but according to the latest battleground state polls, he might not need much help. ohio is a statistical tie in an nbc/"wall street journal" poll, hillary clinton at 38% and donald trump at 35%. that's within the margin of error. libertarian candidate gary johnson at 9%. and green party's jill stein at 3%. a quinnipiac poll of ohio taken at the same time also shows a tie with donald trump at 37%, hillary clinton at 36%, gary johnson at 7%, jill stein 6%. in iowa the nbc/"wall street journal" poll shows hillary clinton at 37%, donald trump at 37%, gary johnson gets 7%, jill stein 4%. in florida the quinnipiac poll shows a tie with donald trump at 41% and hillary clinton at 36%. that's within the 3.1% margin of error. gary johnson's at 7%.
jill stein 4%. and the biggest conflict in the polls today comes from pennsylvania. it's a huge polling conflict. the nbc/"wall street journal" poll of pennsylvania shows hillary clinton with an eight-point lead over donald trump at 43-35. gary johnson at 8, jill stein at 2. but the quinnipiac poll shows the opposite result in pennsylvania. it shows donald trump at 40, hillary clinton at 34. with 9% for gary johnson, 3% for jill stein. joining us now, rick wilson, republican strategist who contributed to the website heat street. charlie sikes, radio host on wtjm in milwaukee and the editor in chief of right wisconsin. and clarence paige, columnist for the "chicago tribune." clarence, since you've been watching presidential politics longer than the rest of us, i want to begin with you. your analysis of the trump field for vp candidates. and if you want to place a bet, clarence, please feel free. >> well, mr. trump prides
himself on unpredictability. i'm not going to challenge that tonight. but i agree with you. it sounded like your comments were leaning toward mike pence as being the best choice of the names that have been mentioned tonight. and that i would agree with because trump certainly he can be his own attack dog. that's what he is to such a large degree. and we know how inexperienced he is. he needs some stability, that kind of a stable balance that a mike pence can bring. pence looks virtually colorless compared to trump, especially to most people outside of indiana. but that's good. trump doesn't need somebody else to be throwing up flames there from the running mate position. and i think trump seems to be attracted toward the idea as well. we will see i think the chris christie stock is falling a bit right now. >> rick wilson, clarence is
right in reading any very transparent mind. i'm betting $2 on mike pence, and i'm going to throw a dollar in for clarence on mike pence based on what he just said. i know he doesn't want to bet. >> i'll bet with your money. >> okay. you can bet with my money. go ahead, place your bet, rick. >> well, look, i still think right now that donald trump's psychology is in play here. there is something about him that is this infantile reflexive nature where if everybody else around him wants mike pence he may just do something contrary and jump to chris christie or jump to newt gingrich. i mean, if he wants to get a good shine on those shoes every day it's chris christie. he's the guy that will engage in relentless butt kissing for the rest of the campaign and, you know, bow and scrape to mr. trump. if that's something that his ego needs, he's going to do that. i think pence is a no harm no foul kind of pick. but he'll fade into the woodwork
pretty quickly. because there's no mike pence show. there's a donald trump show. now, there could be a chris christie show or a newt gingrich show to go along with, you know, as a side show act versus the trump thing. but it's very interesting to see how the trump family psychology plays out with this. if everyone's pushing him so hard to choose pence, you know, this is not a guy who takes well to internal pressure even from his own family it seems. >> charlie, i agree with our resident psychoanalyst rick wilson about the trump complexes here. but do you agree that mike pence seems to be the most sensible choice under the circumstances? >> well, the problem is there's just so much room for the egos. and absolutely if he wants an attack dog, he wants a lackey, he's got -- he can go with chris christie. the problem with newt gingrich of course is that he's almost as much of a meg lo maniac as donald trump and he's also erratic. if things go south in this campaign you know that newt gingrich is going to take care of newt gingrich and is going to throw donald trump under the bus. so by the process of elimination you go with the boring guy. however, you do have the ivanka primary and you have the sean hannity primary and you've got
sean hannity flying newt gingrich out to meet donald trump. you've got to wonder, you know, how much clout does his number one media fan boy have in this process? you know, at some point is donald trump going to say yeah, i really want to go with the safe rational choice but i don't really want to disappoint sean. who knows what could happen? >> clarence paige, it's the toughest assignment maybe in the history of running mates. donald trump's running mate. and how much cleaning up for donald trump you have to do every day as opposed to that traditional job of attacking the other side. >> i think what's really important here is that two of them are able to work as a team. we've yet to see. but you remember the bob dole/jack kemp team back in '96 which was very disappointing. the two of them were so much apart it was hard to relieve they were in the same campaign. and that didn't help the republican side at all at that time. mitt romney and ryan worked very well together.
i think the important thing here is that pence, even if he has to run behind trump with i broom and a dustpan to clean up whatever crockery he's broken the night before, still what's important is that they're a good team. >> and we should remember that chris christie did not pass the vetting of the romney campaign four years ago and didn't even hand over all the documents that they were looking for. rick wilson, is there a future for the republican vice presidential nominee assuming that hillary clinton would win? is there a future for that republican vice presidential nominee in republican politics? can mike pence rise from the ashes of a trump loss? >> look, i think the stink that gets on you from being trump's vice president and all the erratic and bizarre things trump is going to say for the next 100-some-odd days is a political down note for the long term for anybody that gets in bed with this guy as his vp.
and so i think that's why you probably have seen an awful lot of people who would be better choices hiding out in the tall grass, you know, looking for the exits every time they see somebody from trump world coming toward them. >> charlie sykes, there's always that phenomenon people worry about before sometimes these choices of will the choice of the vp make people wish the ticket were flipped? could mike pence perform in such a way that he acquits himself well, makes people look at him and say boy, we wish he was at the top of the ticket, too bad i can't vote for this ticket with donald trump on it, and might that again give mike pence a life after this election if the republicans lose? >> no. there's no future for whatever pick. this is political suicide. you pointed out, the one guy who understands the game is newt gingrich, who whatever happens is going to be able to charge more for his fees and will go back as a commentator. but rick is absolutely right. there's a reason why it is down to these three candidates.
it's down to the sycophant caucus. because you know, none of the other plausible candidates want to be associated with donald trump. they know they will be diminished by the next several months of having to campaign and cover up for him. and they know they won't be able to wipe the stink off. so no, there is none. now, as far as people wishing at the ticket was flipped, i think a lot of republicans are going to be wishing a lot of things as these polls change. look, these polls right now reflect how badly hillary clinton has been hurt in the e-mail scandal. but you notice that donald trump has not picked up. so republicans have to be asking themselves, if it was anyone else other than donald trump what would these numbers look like? is there any republican in america that would not be doing better? >> clarence page, bret baier asked donald trump about his tax returns again tonight on fox news. he said oh, they're in an audit, i can't release them. and what he didn't ask, i wish someone would ask him, is would donald trump accept that answer in the vetting of a vice presidential nominee?
presumably all of them have had to hand over their tax returns to donald trump. >> that's right. and i would be surprised if trump would accept a running mate who didn't turn over his tax returns and somehow tried to explain to the rest of us why he doesn't turn over his own tax returns. in the past trump has been very good at changing the subject, which he did with bret baier tonight. but that's something that hillary clinton will probably take advantage of here as time goes on. >> clarence page, rick wilson, charlie sykes, thank you all for joining us tonight. appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, donald trump's new attacks against ruth bader ginsburg, and what the experts seem to have forgotten about politics and the supreme court. and in the war room tonight will libertarian candidate gary johnson take votes from bernie sanders supporters or does that mean he'll be taking votes from hillary clinton possible supporters?
and in a special last word tonight, alton sterling's son, the 15-year-old boy who burst into tears the last time he was at a press conference about his father's death at the hands of baton rouge police. today 15-year-old cameron sterling stepped up to the microphone once again. ke one. real is making new friends. amazing is getting this close. real is an animal rescue. amazing is over twenty-seven thousand of them. there's only one place where real and amazing live. ok a seaworld vacation package and eat free.
for her to come out and to say the kind of things, there's almost something wrong with her. i don't think anybody's ever seen that before. >> so are you questioning her mental capacity or -- >> yeah. i think i am. >> donald trump questioning the mental capacity of supreme court justice ruth bader ginsburg. that's next.
"new york times" editorial today. when have you seen this? "mr. trump is right." >> no way. >> mr. trump is right -- >> i don't believe it. this is a major event. i think that's the biggest news of the week. >> about justice ginsburg. >> well, she's a disgrace to the supreme court. for her to politicize the supreme court. and this is all the more reason why i hope i win. because i've got 11 justices that are absolutely incredible justices. highly respected by all. including liberal people, frankly. for her to come out and to say the kind of things -- there's also something wrong with her. i don't think anybody's ever seen that before.
>> like everyone else, i had never seen that before. a supreme court justice commenting on a presidential candidate. outright opposing a presidential candidate. ridiculing a presidential candidate. and my first reaction to it was similar to the "new york times" editorial board and the "washington post" editorial board, both of which said ruth bader ginsburg should not have said what she said. but then, in the second minute of thinking about it, i did what i always do. i wondered about precedent. what precedent did we have for supreme court justices' involvement in presidential campaigns? and i vaguely recalled that one or more supreme court justices were actually candidates for president themselves, and i wondered had they left the court? what's the story with that? and just because i had never seen a supreme court justice comment on a presidential election didn't mean that there was no precedent for involvement in presidential elections because the supreme court is 227 years old, which say little
older than i am. so the "last word" research team went to work, and thereupon we quickly discovered that the very first chief justice of the supreme court, the legendary john jay, ran for governor of new york twice while he was chief justice. the reason he ran twice was because he lost the first time and continued to serve as chief justice of the supreme court until he won the governorship of new york the second time he ran. he was followed by three supreme court justices who ran for presidential nominations and lost while they were supreme court justices. and they all continued to serve on the supreme court after they lost their presidential campaigns. and so public comment on the ginsburg situation has been limited to precedents set during the lifetimes of the people now speaking about it. aaron blake in the "washington post" actually reported,
"supreme court experts i've spoken to were unaware of any justices getting so directly and vocally involved or involved at all really in a presidential campaign." and so the "washington post" is talking to supreme court experts who do not seem to know that supreme court justices have actually gotten so involved that they have run for president while serving on the court. that's a lot more vocally involved in a presidential campaign than ruth bader ginsburg was. and so staying quiet about politics is just a tradition. it's a modern custom of the supreme court. it's not a rule. it's not a law. but is it a custom that has become meaningless? last night the always reasonable supreme court expert jeffrey toobin said this. >> this is not something that supreme court justices have done historically. it is a direct intervention in a
presidential campaign. it's an endorsement or a non-endorsement of one of the only two candidates. and if somehow this case winds up -- th election winds up in the supreme court like it did in 2000, i don't see how she could help but recuse herself. >> there is no rule or law about when supreme court justices must recuse themselves. it is completely up to the justice. and so if you believe tonight that a justice should recuse himself or herself in a case like bush v. gore if the justice had publicly expressed a preference for an outcome of that election, then why shouldn't the justice recuse himself or herself if the justice had secretly expressed a preference for an outcome in that election by, you know, voting? i'm not asking these questions to be flippant. i'm asking them because we've never asked them. i've never thought about them before this week.
i'm asking them because we've simply taken it for granted that supreme court justices will never express preferences for presidential candidates and that they will all vote secretly for presidential candidates. we presume both of those things at the same time. and in the process we have taken to pretending that a secret preference's has no effect on impartiality and a public preference somehow does. >> what she did is not just wrong ethically. it undermines the integrity of the supreme court. it's a very serious blow to that court. the supreme court has many flaws, but one of its great tenets is this impartiality and this separation from politics. and what justice ginsburg did was undermine that tradition. >> i used to believe everything that jonathan turley just said. until i thought about it. until ruth bader ginsburg forced me to think about it this week. if the integrity of the supreme
court is based on the notion that supreme court justices do not have a preference about who wins a presidential election, then the integrity is based on pure fantasy. and everybody knows that. and judicial impartiality does not require a justice to hold no personal opinions. it does not require a justice to be able to -- it requires a justice simply to be able to look at the law and make a ruling despite the justice's own personal opinion. now, no one has ever suggested that the catholics on the supreme court should recuse themselves on cases involving abortion, and none of them ever have. and catholics on the supreme court have very consistently ruled against abortion rights, in agreement with their church. and no editorial board has accused them of doing that because their religion has undermined the integrity of the supreme court, has destroyed the
justices' ability to rule on the law and the constitution. mario cuomo, catholic governor of new york and a legal scholar, famously spoke and wrote about his own personal opposition to abortion and his support for the constitutional principles identified in roe versus wade, the landmark decision making abortion legal in this country. mario cuomo was in effect biased on abortion, religiously biased. but when it came to analyzing the law and the constitution, he put his religion aside and looked at it as a legal scholar. if the 2016 presidential election somehow ends up in the supreme court, it will be presented to a court on which every justice has a bias in favor of one of the candidates and against one of the candidates. and most of those justices will have voted for one of the candidates. some of them might be voting third party this time. who knows? but there is no reason to believe now that ruth bader
ginsburg would be less capable of impartially analyzing the law and the constitution in an election case, a presidential election case than any other member of the supreme court has ever been. including the ones who ran for president. now, this is all kind of a new thought experiment area for me, and i want to check my thinking with a law professor who's been thinking about these things longer than i have. and remember, the supreme court runs on mystique. that's why they won't allow cameras in the courtroom. the supreme court needs the mystique of pure impartiality. but we haven't really thought very much about what impartiality really is and what personal opinions really mean in the world of supreme court justices. we will do that next. when it comes to healthcare, seconds can mean the difference between life and death.
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professor painter, people are saying ruth bader ginsburg cannot be fair in cases involving the presidency of donald trump were that to happen. every member of the supreme court was appointed to that court by a president. they could not be more indebted individually to the president who gave them that position. and then immediately on day one they go on and they make rulings on cases involving the president's administration. no one's ever thought there was a conflict there before. >> that's true, lawrence. i think that she can impartially decide cases involving this upcoming election if she needs to do that and cases involving a trump administration if there is one. i don't question her mental capacity or her fairness. but i do not think she should have said what she said. i think it has caused damage to
the courts and in particular if the court has to deal with a challenge from donald trump to the independence of the judiciary. it's going to make it that much more difficult to defend the independence of the judiciary in this country. >> but how does it make it more difficult to defend the independence of the judiciary? should we make it a new tradition that supreme court justices do not vote? >> no. not at all. >> but why not? that's just a secret preference as opposed to a public preference. >> yes. and i think that what this is about is public impressions of the court and these are public impressions that can be manipulated by politicians such as mr. trump, who have shown disrespect for the judiciary. he has called for the recusal of judges at the drop of a hat simply because a judge was mexican-american, for example.
and if we were to have mr. trump in the white house, there would be many presidential powers cases coming up if he attempts to do half of what he says he's going to do, and many of these cases would involve civil liberties. and we need the court to be able to rule on those cases and to convince the american people that the court does have the final word with respect to the constitution. and judicial review is nowhere written in the constitution. we've had it for over 200 years. and government officials including the president have deferred to the court. and we need to continue to have a court that garners that kind of respect from the american people. >> i think i agree with you that it's not generally a good idea to do this because it gets you thrown into a political maelstrom where it's really impossible for a justice to respond because the way the political machinery uses it, it's rapid-fire back and forth
about this. >> you're absolutely right. the problem is she's playing with fire here and donald trump is no ordinary candidate, as i've said. he has challenged the independence of the judiciary. and he has proposed a number of measures that would probably be unconstitutional. and if the court tells a president trump that he can't do something, we need to have everyone be willing to back the supreme court. >> richard painter, thank you very much for joining us tonight. really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> coming up in the war room, is libertarian presidential candidate gary johnson more of a threat to donald trump or hillary clinton?
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>> a house divided against itself cannot stand. the words lincoln spoke still hold resonance for us now. >> so much symbolism here, andrea, with the fact that this is where abraham lincoln gave that famous speech. >> this man is the nominee of the party of lincoln. we are watching it become the party of trump. >> do you hope to serve in a clinton administration if she were elected? >> that issue has not yet come up. >> and who would be number one on your wish list for her to choose as a running mate? >> she won the primary. she won the nominating process -- >> but you can have an opinion. >> i would like to see the most progressive person possible. >> donald trump spent years peddling trump university, a sham college -- >> we need somebody who is not attached to wall street. >> now he is being sued for fraud, and worse, for targeting the most vulnerable people he could find. >> veep stakes headquarters
became indianapolis today. >> i'm narrowing. i'm at three, potentially four. >> i think mike pence is his spinach he has to eat. >> it's very humble for our family to have the opportunity to meet the next president of the united states. >> but in my own mind i probably am thinking about two. >> nothing was offered. nothing was accepted. >> as of now no one really knows who donald trump is going to pick. >> and i just want to pick somebody that's very good. before i had the shooting, burning, pins-and-needles of diabetic nerve pain, these feet played shortstop in high school, learned the horn from my dad
and played gigs from new york to miami. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. so i talked to my doctor and he prescribed lyrica. nerve damage from diabetes caulyrica is fda approvedn. to treat this pain, from moderate to even severe diabetic nerve pain. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactio or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, unusual changes imood or behavior. or swellg, troublereathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling or blurry vision. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs, and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lyrica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. now i have less diabetic nerve pain. and these feet would like to keep the beat going. ask your doctor about lyrica.
you can go ahead and stick with that complicated credit card that limits where you earn bonus cash back. or... you can get the quicksilver card from capital one. quicksilver earns you unlimited 1.5% cash back on ev-e-ry purase, ev-e-ry-where. i shouldn't have to ask. what's in your wallet? time for tonight's "war room." a new mcclatchy marist national poll today shows hillary clinton five points ahead of donald trump at 40-35, which is actually a statistical tie within that margin of error. in that poll libertarian candidate gary johnson is polling at 10% and jill stein of the green party is at 5%. in that same poll when pollsters did not include the third and fourth party candidates the race between hillary clinton and donald trump actually tightened to 42-39, indicating that the
third-party candidates are actually hurting donald trump more than hillary clinton. gary johnson is now making a play for bernie sanders voters. >> if you're still feeling the bern and feeling burned because the clinton machine rolled over your ideals, there is another option. the libertarian party nominee will be on the ballot in all 50 states in a race with clinton and trump, the latest polls show me at 11%. don't let your voice go unheard. we can still fight for a future to believe in. please google gary johnson. >> gary johnson will join us on this program tomorrow night. joining us now in the last word war room are lis smith, veteran of martin o'malley's war rooms and katie packer, veteran of mitt romney's presidential campaign war room. katie packer, it could be that gary johnson is helping hillary clinton in his pitch for bernie
sanders voters because at the same time donald trump is making a pitch for bernie sanders voters. and so if they're not going to go to hillary clinton, having them to go to gary johnson is a lot better for hillary clinton than them going to donald trump. >> yeah. and i think if i were hillary clinton i'd be happy to see that movement. and frankly, if i were hillary clinton i would be sort of trying to couch gary johnson as just another republican option. gary johnson and bill weld are both former republican governors. both from sort of blue slash purple states. and i think if i were her i would simply be saying this is another option because that also serves to pull republicans that are sort of disenchanted and disenfranchised with the republican nominee and gets them to look at those candidates as potential alternatives to trump. >> so katie, let me get it straight. do you mean in effect campaign against gary johnson in a kind
of negative accusatory way, he's just another republican, which would then legitimize gary johnson in republican eyes because hillary clinton has accused him of being a republican. >> i would just sort of characterize him as republican light or the other republican candidate. like i said, these are two republican -- former republican governors. i'm not exactly sure what the appeal would be specifically for bernie voters other than that it's just not hillary clinton. i do expect that the lion's share of the bernie supporters will ultimately coalesce around hillary, and i think that bernie's working toward that happening. but certainly having these candidates out there, having a candidate that's drawing 10% of the vote. if you look back in 2000, the vote in florida which decided the presidential election and gave it to president bush was divided by only 500 votes between bush and gore and 19,000 votes -- i'm sorry, 90,000 votes went to nader. so these can be very, very
consequential candidates in these campaigns. >> lis, it's all about the sanders voters now. hillary's going after the sanders voters. she had bernie with her this week. donald trump is going after the sanders voters. now gary johnson going after the sanders voters. >> and if i'm in hillary clinton's war room what i'm concerned about is not that gary johnson is necessarily winning voters but he definitely is taking voters away and i think he's doing that for a couple reasons. i think donald trump is losing voters because people know where he stands and they think he'll be disastrous for the country. i think hillary clinton is losing voters to gary johnson and others because people don't know what she'd do as president and she don't trust her. and that's a pretty toxic combination. so she needs to go out there and tell people what she stands for and make an affirmative case for herself. in recent weeks we've seen her do a blitz of these anti-trump speeches, you know, trying to define him. we get it. he's a racist. he's going to drive our country into a ditch. but what we need to know is what
will you do? and katie and i worked against each other in 2012, and i think there's a good lesson from that, which is after mitt romney won the 2012 primary he just focused his campaign on destroying barack obama and defining him and not building himself up. and that is one of the big reasons why mitt romney lost. and that should be an instructive lesson for the clinton campaign. >> we're going to have to leave the war room right there tonight. lis smith and katie packer, thank you both for joining us. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> and gary johnson will be our guest tomorrow at this hour on "the last word." coming up, a special last word from president obama and alton sterling's 15-year-old son talking about the killing of his father by baton rouge police.ke . ask your doctor if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take viagra if you take nitrates for chest pain or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension. your blood pressure could drop to an unsafe level. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you
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one thing i would always say to my dad when he walked out the door was good-bye, daddy, i love you, be safe. and tonight we say our final "good-bye, daddy. we love you. be safe." >> that was one of officer brent thompson's four daughters speaking at his funeral earlier today in dallas. services were also held today for officer michael smith and officer lorne ahrens. this afternoon president obama cleared his schedule and brought together law enforcement officials and black lives matter activists and others to discuss race relations and community policing in light of last week's tragedies.
>> the pace of change is going to feel too fast for some and too slow for others. and sadly, because this is a huge country that is very diverse and we have a lot of police departments, i think it is fair to say that we will see more tension in police -- between police and communities this month, next month, next year, for quite some time. >> one week ago, 15-year-old cameron sterling stood beside his mother and cried over the loss of his dad, alton sterling, who was shot and killed by baton rouge police. today with his mother standing behind him cameron sterling once again stepped up to the microphone. now, if you have ever been 15 years old or if you've ever had a 15-year-old child, just
imagine what it was like for this 15-year-old boy to speak to the nation and the world today about the loss of his father and his hopes for his country. >> good morning, everyone. i came to talk to everyone about, one, about the death of my father. two, how i feel about people in general. first i want to talk about how i feel about people in general. i feel that people in general, no matter what the race is, should come together as one united family. there should be no more arguments, disagreements, violence, crimes. everyone should come together as one united family. my father was a good man. that was a sacrifice to show everyone what has been going on in life, and it should give
everyone a push that everyone should be together, not against each other. everyone needs to be on one accord, not a different note. everyone needs to be together. not apart. and i truly feel that my father was a good man and he will always be a good man but at the same time he has a lot of loved ones out here that are really here to support me, my mother, the rest of my brothers and sisters, and my father. they're here to support everyone. and i want to thank everyone that are supporting us. i want to thank them very much for supporting us. and another thing. the protesting. i feel that everyone gets -- yes, you can protest. but i want everyone to protest