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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  July 14, 2016 3:00am-6:01am PDT

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>> i suspect some time tomorrow that mike and i will both get phone calls and one of us will be packing our bags to go to new york and the other one will be going to watch it on it, v. >> yeah, that sounds like someone with confidence. >> that is the apprentice. >> that's someone who is confident. >> do you think it is going to be newt? >> i do. i think it's going to be down to
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two. i still think that is going to be what happened. really great way to start the show. just diving off. all right, good morning, everyone. thursday, july 13th. with us on set we have legendary and msnbc contributor, mike barnicle. they mock you every time. >> it's love. >> president of the council and foreign relations richard haus and in cleveland, ohio, managing editor of and manager of "all due respect." >> what is that? >> it's a plant. >> somebody got shot. >> how terrible. >> they need to clean it up. mark halperin. >> in nashville, tennessee. >> we're safely in 1957.
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john meacham with the nashville -- >> okay, good job. what a good crew. >> we're leading up to, yeah, always know the truth. john, so, we're leading up to the vice presidential sweepstakes. this unlike any others because trump is running it like a reality game show. sort of like "apprentice" he makes people try out. >> walter mondale brought people up and down that driveway back in '84 and it's hugely, it's fascinating, i think partly because i would bet a significant amount of money that maybe even mr. trump right now is not sure, as he likes to say. he's intuitive and he reacts off the cuff and i suspect he's doing that right now. >> hillary clinton doing the same thing. i mean, she's been trying people out because you want to see how they perform in public and get a feel for the relationship and this is someone you're going to
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be spending a long time with. >> hillary is down to three people. one the former dnc chair. the former governor of virginia and, three, the current senator of virginia. >> that's three. >> that's right. >> all tim kaine. >> not just three of them. but it's going to end up there because it's boring, right? is that bad to say. >> if i'm her i'd like to win virginia and he's run the dnc and been a governor and a senator and he knows foreign policy and he checks every box except for the, whoa, hey, he's exciting. >> we should look at the swing state polls and see if you still feel that way. donald trump will unveil his running mate tomorrow. the aannouncement will come in manhattan at 11:00. children and his son-in-law have been meeting with the top tier finalists. new jersey governor chris
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christie met with trump family members tuesday. with trump's plane temporarily out of commission for mu acanical problems the meetings continued in indiana. newt gingrich met with trump for two and a half hours. those senior campaign sources tell nbc he's not a fine list for a vp. trump met once more with governor mike pence this time at his family's home. >> mrs. pence and i put out a breakfast spread late last night and some flowers and served coffee and warm breakfast this morning and just had good conversation as a family together. these are good people. this man is going to be a great president and you can really tell a lot about a person when you get around their family. >> i think that pence has a terrific ability to bring together the regular party and to reach out to many, many people you serve with in the
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house and that he's known through the governor's association and i think he would be a very stabilizing force. i think a lot of people who are a little jittery about donald trump would feel reassured talking with pence and that he could spend a good bit of july and august bringing back the party regulars and getting them inside. doing for trump what george h.w. bush did in 1980. i am an outsider. i'm oriented towards moving the great base of the party and communicating big ideas and i think trump's got inside does he want a second person that is really as effective on television or does he want somebody who is really good on reaching out on a personal basis that trump may not be able to reach on his own. >> i tell you, chris christie is somebody i have liked a long
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time. he's a total professional. he's a good guy, people don't understand that. but i'm narrowing it down. i'm at three, potentially four, but in my own mind i probably am thinking about two. i just want to pick somebody that is very good. i want to pick somebody who is solid, who is smart, i'm not looking for an attack dog. frankly, i'm looking for somebody who really understands what we're talking about. >> you're really tapped into the thinking here. who do you think those two are and what do you think the logic is? >> i think it's probably newt and pence. >> i think it's newt and christie. >> i think without a doubt it should be christie. >> chris christie can prosecute the case against hillary clinton better than anybody else. and, you know, people worried about the bridge. i see that as a positive. you bring up a bridge investigation and go, yeah, they investigated me for closing one
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lane. they investigated hillary clinton for actually putting america's national security at risk. we'll talk about them every day and we'll be just fine. >> i would say, joe, the role of the vice president has changed in the last four presidencies. the old vp pick was about regional balance on the ticket, right? it's really change under to more of a counselor role. when you think of the last four vice presidential picks, it was joe biden, dick cheney. and, so, i think if chris christie does feel like he's more in that counselor role. >> he really does. >> people say, oh, it's 26% in new jersey, that's one or two day stories. at the end of the day, i always found that in politics, mike, people do not care what's in the rear view mirror, they care
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what's ahead of them. >> trump's selection is very important because it will come down can the person who is selected succeed donald trump if anything were to happen. i mean, anything. if trump agitates congress to the point where they decide to impeach him. can the vice president succeed the president? the democratic selection for vice president, though, is kind of even more interesting because of the presence of former president bill clinton in the white house. >> yeah. no doubt. >> mark halperin, tell me why i'm wrong. i think newt gingrich. let's say it's down to newt and pence. i think newt and trump together are just two volatile chemicals you wouldn't want to put in the same container. mike pence, mike pence is just not ready for this. i mean, it takes a special person to be ready for dealing with the chaos that donald trump's campaign can bring every
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day and he's been accused of having sort of, i know mike served with him and him being an able guy and i think he'll be an able leader. but as far as the rough and tumble, he's so off brand from donald trump, that it makes absolutely no sense and i think bad things would happen. >> i wish you all had been with me in indianapolis yesterday in my year's covering presidential politics i never had a day quite like it. part of it was just a spectacle. but part of it was a family really trying to make a decision as a family on what to do. even though the rest of the family believes it is up to daunld trump himself to decide. i think all three of them are risky in some sense and could be solid picks if launched correctly. >> let's talk about the risks. we know why newt's a risk. we know that pence may not be
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ready for primetime, this type of carnival atmosphere. why is chris christie a risk? >> well, i think if the first thing i'd say is not just the bridge, but, remember, four years ago when mitt romney was considering him. very drawn for picking him the reasons about his strength. you need that. but other betting issues from the past that the romney lawyers look at and say this is just a breach too far. christie never addressed those things in the context of the national campaign. >> are those things not extraordinary small compared to the man at the top of the ticket? people don't want to get consumed by chris christie's stories from the past when they ve so many stories to focus on with donald trump. >> well, did you think people would be consumed by dan quayle's draft record? just the history of this.
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>> donald trump was on the top of the ticket. we're in a new world. >> i agree, but also in a new world where the democrats will go hard at whoever is picked. donald trump's chances of winning how many days between now and hillary clinton and how many are about other things. to me, that's the biggest risk with christie. >> what made yesterday so unusual for you? you said it was the most interesting day you encountered presidential politics. >> covering the vp stakes and we're in indianapolis and went out to the governor residence because i had nothing better to do and not much going on and then the trump kids pulled up in a motorcade shortly after donnell trump pick showed up and the rest of the national media showed up and most of the action was back at the conrad hotel downtown, a nice property, by the way, where trump and pence
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had dinner the night before. gingrich and sessions flying in and the meetings going on and trump doing an interview with fox where he says, as you played earlier, i'm down tato two, may three. trump saying going back down to two. the two gingrich says is gingrich and pence. i was told by two people do not rule christie out. christie is still in the mix here. >> so, john meacham, let's go back to and donald trump watches this show and he's watching now and his family watches the show and they're watching now. of course, 84 million people across america watch. >> there's that. there's that happening. >> they haven't picked out of the box. >> maybe they are, maybe they're not. >> but if we go back, the disasters for vice presidential selections -- >> right. >> aren't they the dan quayles
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who aren't ready for primetime that have the deer in the headlight moment when pressed by lloyd benson. the geraldine who wasn't quite ready for the onslot of dealing what was happening with her husband. admiral stockdale. you can go down the list. i always say and with all due respect to scott walker, who i love. he was one of my favorites early on, he's just not ready for the big stage. he's a great shortstop but a double a shortstop. that's my argument for chris christie. he's been there. we saw him throughout the fall. he delivered the best town hall meeting addresses across new jersey. he made us cry around here talking about his friend who died. he gutted the future of the republican party, marco rubio.
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finished him in one dedebate. he's been a prosecutor. am i carrying his water right now? no, i'm not. just doing my political analysis. if you want to avoid crises down the road, isn't the first thing you do is get a lloyd benson type who has been there before and not going to wither in october? >> the way i sometimes think of it is the best kind of vice president passes the helicopter test. can you imagine in a moment of grave crisis this person getting off the helicopter and taking over? and by that standard, dick cheney worked. by that standard back in 1980, therati though reagan was not excited about it, it's why vice president quayle, spent four years of trying to recover from that moment. and it's why al gore worked in
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many ways. so, i think you're right. i think my own view is that speaker gingrich feels like, you know, donald trump with a more, with a dorkier vocabulary. does that really do it? but i think secondly, vice president's when they offer a reassurance sense that if the worse happens, they will be able to run the country with a steady hand. >> it's the first sort of presidential decision. yeah, mark. >> just real quick. i think all three of these guys have downsides and they're being discussed. if trump markets whatever one of the three successfully, gingrich in particular very unorthodox pick. if they market them successfully, i think they can move on and get the focus back
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on the top of the ticket, they just have to explain why did i pick this person? why is this person the best? i think they can do that with any of the three. christie has the most upside, if he performs. >> hands down. >> we bring you into this. both newt gingrich and chris christie have been through the fire. i mean, newt gingrich has had as much negative press written about him and, yes, that's a negative. but also newt gingrich is still standing. newt gingrich has been through hell and back. a lot of it has been his own fault but newt gingrich is still standing. newt gingrich and chris christie has been through the fire. the "new york times" tore chris christie to shreds for a year and a half. chris christie is still standing. that's my concern with mike pence. >> not only been through the fire, but they know the issues. there's a sense that they've
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been around it long enough and internalized it and both of them in that sense have a major ramp to get ready. look, when vice president -- they need to get through the first 48 hours. you don't want something happening moment one where that becomes a story or a problem. then they've got to get through the campaign and that's where the counselor role comes in. you always need to break it into the three bits. can you get through the first 38 hours without a crisis or a scandal and not hurt you in the campaign and hopefully help you. if you win, can they be a side kick. >> how long do you want to hang around with this guy? >> that's another thing about pence, donald trump is not going to want to hang out with mike pence. >> oh, be nice. that's not very nice. >> no, i'm just saying, i know donald trump. i know mike pence, i like them both. you would not sit them next to each other on thanksgiving. >> try out on twitter where he
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was trying out and doing his twitter attack lines against hillary clinton. not his natural role. with christie important to note he was one of the first established republicans to back donald trump. he was -- >> he was killed for it. >> picking chris christie. >> he was there when no one was there. >> picking chris christie sends an incredible signal. >> chris christie endorsed him on a friday when donald trump was bleeding. >> yes. >> he was bleeding and christie was there and he stepped in and the entire party turned on him. and christie stayed there. >> loyalty really matters. >> and he was, meacham he was mocked and ridiculed. chris christie, he still was. mocked and ridiculed and he stayed there. >> yeah, absolutely. and there are two reoles here. one is what we are talking about. a tactical one.
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i think richard's right. a first out of the gate and then there's through the fall. but, ultimately, i'd argue in the general election people are looking for a vice president and they want to know, can this person take over? >> we have so much to get to. but that was an interesting conversation. still ahead on "morning joe" almost something wrong with her. that's what donald trump said yesterday about supreme court justice ruth baiter ginsburg. >> almost something wrong with her. >> as he continues to go after her after she fired the first shot going after trump. >> i have to say, it's bizarre. it's really bizarre what she has done over the past -- >> it's a bizarre year. it's one of those things. >> but there's some people you do not expect to follow the carnival barker back and, you know, into the room. >> we'll have that. also speaking of almost
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something wrong with them, great britain. new foreign minister that i know you love. >> we can't wait to talk about that. >> you have been morris' adviser. >> he's back. >> all right, plus, nbc bill nealy goes one-on-one with syrian president add raaddis. the made r muriel and tom milsack who is a top pick for hillary clinton's running mate. what else is going on? >> all three candidates will be tonight appearing on columbus avenue. >> i'm going to be trying them out. >> you guys should come by. >>. >> chris christie.
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>> lamp shade on his head. >> and newt gingrich. >> that's prohibition on the upper west side of the city. >> a great perry como. we'll be right back. [announcer] is it a force of nature? or a sales event? the summer of audi sales event is here. get up to a $5,000 bonus on select audi models. i have an orc-o-gram we for an "owen."e. that's me. ♪ you should hire stacy drew. ♪ ♪ she wants to change the world with you. ♪ ♪ she can program jet engines to talk and such. ♪ ♪ her biggest weakness is she cares too much. ♪ thank you. my friend really wants a job at ge. mine too. ♪ i'm a wise elf from a far off shire. ♪ and sanjay patel is who you should hire. ♪
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supreme court justice bader ginsburg has been on a tear. >> dear friends. they would be laughing with each other right now and making fun of other candidates. i think she misses having scalia to bounce this stuff off of. >> telling a reporter she didn't want to think about him as president and fleeing to new zealand if he won. going so far to call him a faker and chide journalists for not pressing him hard enough on not releasing his tax returns. >> listen, that is pretty incredible. actually. >> oh, come on. >> we're talking about ethical violations.
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you as a judge, a federal judge, are not to choose sides in campaigns. >> she just did. >> she is not bound by the same rules that lower -- the circuit courts, but, still. >> more of the norm. >> how do you tell circuit court judges you can't do this, but the supreme court -- >> i don't think americans want to see supreme court judges doing hot takes. that's what he's doing. have an ego. this is not what you paid to do. >> now, did scalia ever go this far? >> scalia went hunting. but did he, did he call out democrats like this. >> she is the first to kind of break down some of these boundaries or kind of go too far, but it doesn't help how americans view the court. it doesn't help the job it's supposed to do. plenty of people out there who should offer takes on whether to be president or not or if he has
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a big ego. be on the level of a twitter commenter. >> john meacham, i remember cringing when reading a report while watching returns in 2000 actually grown when it looked like al gore was going to win and said to her husband, i guess we're going to have to be here for four more years. she said that at a cocktail party that was recounted. that's disturbing, but that said at a cocktail party, like talking to the press, it seems to take it to another level. >> i think so. i think it's not a great moment for the court. we're at a point, as we all know, the institutions of the country aren't trusted. i mean, congress i think has an approval rating within the margin of error and the court is already politicized with the fact that there are eight members and nobody wants to have hearings, the republicans don't want to have hearings on judge garland.
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i don't think this helps the overall enterprise suggesting the court is above politics which is a useful myth. >> trump tweeted if he wins the presidency, "we will swamp justice ginsburg with real judges and real legal opinions. he also says -- >> sounds a bit like justice harland, actually. that language. >> he also said she owes the supreme court and the country at large an apology for her comments about him and continued to question her fitness to serve. >> it is almost something wrong with her. i don't think anybody has seen that before. >> are you questioning her mental capacity? >> i think i'm questioning perhaps her mental capacity. for her to do that was either a very dumb mistake. "new york times" just wrote an editorial. i think i'm going to have to frame that editorial. >> "time" and the "the post."
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>> it was out of bounds. >> had to pull that out. that was some hard interviewing. coming up, told nbc about isis and the civil war there. bill nealy joins us on the heels of his exclusive interview with president assad hour. whole communities are living on mars and solar satellites provide earth with unlimited clean power. in less than a century, boeing took the world from seaplanes to space planes, across the universe and beyond. and if you thought that was amazing, you just wait. ♪ i'm in charge of it all. business expenses, so i've been snapping photos of my receipts and keeping track of them in quickbooks. now i'm on top of my expenses, and my bees.
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. joining us from beirut,
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lebanon, pibill neely. he sat down with bashar al assad yesterday. it was filmed pie the presidential press office, but no editorial changes to the contest. >> i heard you were talking to assad and that's not really something that happens every day. how did you get the interview? >> it's not. i mean, i've been asking for the interview for the last five years because i've been going in and out of syria ten times in the last five years and finally it came through. he wanted to talk to nbc news. he wanted, i think to give certain messages to the american people. it was a fascinating insight to a man who's been at war for five years. we had 15 minutes privately before the interview. and then 45 minutes on camera. i asked him 81 questions.
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nothing was off the table. i asked him if he was a brutal dictator with the blood of hundreds of thousands on his hands. i'll tell you what he said later on. this was a man he was relaxed. he wasn't just defiant, he was confident. he was relaxed. he was sure of victory and sure of his position. we talked a lot of presidential politics. donald trump. i asked him, first of, afor example, if he thought trump was too inexperienced to be president. what do you mean? look at obama, look at bush, did they have any experience in foreign affairs. did he feel that experience from any of those people were dangras? for a great country like the united states, it can be dangerous if you have someone who is inexperienced who walks into the white house. he said a few other things about donald trump and hillary clinton and we started the interview talking about the war.
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a few weeks ago in damascus he gave a speech really defiant saying i'm going to retake every inch of syria. the u.s. state department called that delusional. i asked him about that and he said, no, no, no, we are retaking territory and we could win in a few months. but the crucial factor, well, here's what he said about russia because russia, he says, tipped the scales. listen to this. >> a year ago the war was going quite differently. you made a speech in which you said you were short of troops. you have to give up some areas relucta reluctantly. what changed after that? was it that russia entered the war? that's the real reason this war is turning, isn't it? that russia is on your side. >> definitely. the russian support of the syrian army -- >> it's the crucial factor. >> it is. it is, definitely.
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at the same time, turkey and saudi arabia has seen more troops since that russia legal intervention had started. despite all that, it was the crucial factor. the reality is telling. the reality is telling that seems the beginning and the terrorism and when the russians intervened. this is reality. we have to talk about facts. not only about the performer action that they've been taking. >> american air strikes are ineffective and counterproductive? >> yes, it is counterproductive. when it is counterproductive. that is correct. >> let me just probe you about how far you might want a new relationship with the united states. isis is headquartered in your
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country. if you knew that isis was about to attack the united states, would you warn america? >> as principal, yes. because they may attack syrians that cannot blame the innocence in the united states of their official. this is not correct. as i said many times, they don't occupy my land. >> that last answer was fascinating because it was in the context of, do you want a new relationship with the united states. if you're reading between the lines one of the things he said is, look, we don't have any open channels of communication and very much hinting that he would like those open channels of communications. interesting, again, usairstrikes ineffective and going back to being a brutal dictator. his answer to that when i put it to him very bluntly was, well, his comparison was of the
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doctor. if a doctor cuts off a limb to save a life. you don't say he's a brutal doctor, he's doing his job. now, assad is a charming man, but that was a chilling response because what he was talking about are the lives and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, but a fascinating interview. it's aired already in 45 minutes on msnbc. i'm sure, guys, you wish you were there. but a real privilege to be able to ask him some hard questions. >> incredible work. nbc bill neely. thank you so much for that. >> thank you so much, bill. i think the thing that is striking about assad in 2016 for me is this a man who early on after following his father was underestimated. his toughness was underestimated by everybody. he was a dentist -- he was an optometrist and he was western. westernized. he was not going to be like his
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father and yet he has hung on and been as brutal and ruthless as any dictator this side of suss saddam hussein and still clinging to power. >> it was his brother who got killed in a car accident. he got brought in. you're right. the fact that he gave bill neeley this interview is a real sign of cockiness. and the interventions have made a tremendous difference and also u.s. policy. we're essentially going after isis, but we're not doing a lot to help groups that are going after the regime and not going after the regime. >> let me ask you this, richard. why does the administration not have an overarching policy towards syria and towards the middle east? i mean -- >> is that a correct way of putting it? >> the real answer is the principal intellectual and political mindset and driving dynamic of barack obama's
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foreign policy was to minimize involvement in the middle east. for 7 1/2 years now to dial down america's involvement and not to follow in the footsteps of his predecessor has run up against the realities of the middle east. he looks at the options and doesn't like them. it would require to reverse the foreign policy which is to get out. >> you're basically saying he wasn't nimble to the facts that were before him. >> a gap between what he wanted to do and what he was prepared to do. any time american foreign policy runs into a gap, we're going to fail. >> is it safe to say historians say there was a tremendous gap between what he was required to do. >> i think history is going to be brutal on syria, on libya, on his decision to get out of iraq now that we're getting back in it and his decisions on afghanistan. history is going to take a step back and look at these two presidents. george w. bush and barack obama
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and one tried to do too much. tried to transform a part of the world and overreacted and essentially tried to get us out and we are learning we may want to get out of the middle east and ignore it and the middle east won't ignore us. a million refugees and terrorism and still have energy. what we're seeing. his successor whoever is the 45th president in their inbox is something called syria, iraq, afghanistan, libya, yemen. he issa handing off his success in the middle of the 30 years of war. >> with, in the middle of the 30-year war where you have a president who says we're just not going to be involved. you have one president in george w. bush who brought chaos to the middle east by what he did in iraq. you have the next president who brought chaos to the middle east and europe and the world by what he didn't do. >> acts of omission, if you get it wrong, look how consequential
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it is. >> 16 years of foreign policy, i don't think a lot of people would argue with that. john meacham interviewed donald trump for the first time, we'll hear from meacham. why trump says he values talent over experience and for the issue "time" got the photographer who travlg travele the beatles to shoot trump and his family. we'll reveal some of the moments he captured. "morning joe" is back in a moment. be the you who doesn't cover your moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. be the you who shows up in that dress. who hugs a friend. who is done with treatments that don't give you clearer skin. be the you who controls your psoriasis with stelara® just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tuberculosis.
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>> it's been incredible. it's been incredible. it's been a movement. i've been on the cover of "time" magazine so many times and the cover of everything. i feel like a supermodel except like times ten. >> he's been on the cover so many times they now put the back
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of his head on the cover, okay. >> a supermodel. >> joining us now editor of "time" magazine. nancy gibbs. here to reveal this week's cover story. donald trump how for him intuition beats experience and what that would mean for the presidency. that is, yes, that crystalizes the difference between trump and others. goes with his gut. >> he has really made this a referendum on what we want in a president and what we think matters. it is astonishing to me just as a historian that we're looking at a battle between literally the most experienced imaginable candidate to the point that she has lived in the white house for eight years with the one who has, by any measure, the least experience about the actual workings of the presidency from the inside. that's the choice we're facing. i said professor meacham to help us understand not only how he thinks, but what that tells us about the presidency and what the office requires and what his way of thinking about it, what
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brings to it. >> professor meacham. >> what did you find? >> and did you bore him? >> i think we had a fascinating time. i know i enjoyed it. you know, my leader puts it very well. this is the least conventionally prepared candidate, arguably, certainly in modern times. the first person without significant government or military experience to be a major party nominee in 76 years. and the question i ask him three or four, five times over, what is he doing to prepare? what is it that we should, as mu what should the country think about bringing unconventional to the job. he was improvisational. he believes that his intuition and he believes that his gut is a virtue, not a vice.
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and his argument is, essentially, if being conventionally prepared, if reading deeply in history and briefing books is so good, then why is he the nominee and 16 other people aren't and there's a price we have to conjure with with that. i mean, do we want someone who admitted that when he talked about nato he said, i don't read books about nato, you do. but i was asked the question. and he believes that he put his finger on something when the facts were a little sketchy. the facts were off. but he thought he hit a larger truth. that's the bet one would be making about trump. >> that nato conversation is really interesting because john prester has all the skills that presidential candidates conventionally have and one of his advantages is that the cameras follow. he commands all this media
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attention and that's one of the advantages he has, the conventional candidates don't. as though the key to a successful presidency is the bully pulpit amplified globally and intensely in a way that it never has been before. john meacham can meet all the books about nato he wants. no one is listening tahim. he's not on camera. what i say is what people pay attention to. it was this fascinating kind of in the modern media global age of what is it really going to make the difference between expertise versus these instin instincts. >> the other thing i found riveting is he said i get things done. i get deals when i go into a room that other people don't. i said why, why is that? he said, why? well, i don't know. it just is. why did jack nicklaus win so many golf tournaments. why did babe ruth hit any more home runs in the american
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league. he talked about the brilliant gung golfer, what is your swing thought when you bring the club down. he replied, i don't know. i just swing, i just hit it it. trump said, that's me. it's just something special. this is the case. this is what he's bring. the argument he's bringing to the american people. his go with his gut as opposed to hillary clinton's experience. >> a recent political parallel is the brexit vote. people giving argument after argument over why brexit was there. people went with their gut and the hope that somehow a different future would be different -- >> where does it end this? >> friday. >> no, i'm saying, i'm saying with an establishment figure, a solid establishment figure. i suspect that's where this will end in america, as well. i don't think the national front is going to win.
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>> the new issue of "time" is out now. nancy gibbs, thank you so much. coming up, trump's ticket. the american running mate could be announced at any time. we'll break down the choices and "washington post" robert costa. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet?
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>> following the referendum we face a time of dprat, national change. i know because we're great britain that we will rise to the
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challenge. as we leave the european union, we will forge a bold, new positive role for ourselves in the world and we will make britain a country that works not for a privileged few, but for every one of us. accepted the job and then she wasted no time forming her new government. one of her first appointments, former london mayor. >> richard, very excited about that. >> leading brexit voice as the new secretary. he is humbled by the move. >> john meacham, that's a fascinating choice for theresa mae and her first move is somebody who is seen as really just the opposite.
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somebody who is seen as a bit volatile. >> two ways to look at this, right? this is doris curtis goodwin's idea of the team of rivals and then the lyndon johnson's view which is you want people on the inside spitting out, as asuppos to spitting in. >> interesting. >> because the most important job after prime minister is the chancellor, you have the foreign minister. and then a new position in the british cabinet which never existed. the secretary of state from brexit. a gentleman named davis. >> it's not going to be at the office. >> what message does it send the world that you put boris johnson there. >> that for britain foreign
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policy is somewhere far down the pecking order of concerns. what they care about is the economy and they care about their relationship with the eu. the special relationship. the more you hear people there talking about the special relationship, the less special it is. >> wow. okay. richard, thank you. tomorrow is the big day when we find out who donald trump is going to choose as his running mate. "the washington post" robert costa will be here at the top of the hour with his latest reporting. plus, more swing state polls that show a tight race in several key battleground states. nbc news political director chuck todd joins us with his analysis and senator tim scott talks about what it's like to be profiled by police on capitol hill. his powerful address on the senate floor ahead on "morning joe." ♪
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>> i tell you, chris christie is somebody i've liked a long time. he's a total professional and a good guy, by the way. a lot of people don't understand that. but i'm narrowing it down. i'm at three, potentially four, but in my own mind, i probably am thinking about two. i just want to pick somebody that is really good. i want to pick somebody who is solid, who is smart. i'm not looking for an attack dog. frankly, i'm looking for somebody who really understands what we're talking about. >> in many ways, donald trump is like a pirate. he's outside the normal system. he gets things done. he's bold. he's actually like a figure out of a movie and a lot of ways my entire career has been a little bit like a pirate.
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i've taken on the establishment of both parties and i've been really prepared to fight in the media. do you really want a two-pirate ticket. >> that is a great way to put it. do you want a two-pirate ticket. >> pirates of the puatootomac. >> good morning, it's thursday, july 13th. still with us on set we have political writer from "new york times" nicholas contessor soon to be verified by twitter and author of the book "democracy in black" eddie cloud jr. in cleveland, ohio, managing editor mark halperin and robert costa. in nashville, tennessee, historian john meacham. >> what a wonderful way for newt
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gingrich to put it. >> attempted to recuse myself from this segment because i consider myself something of a pirate, as well. >> you take that as an insult. >> people are making a big deal about the way trump is conducting this. gingrich's conduct is really incredible. he's acting as a pundit about his own prospects of being picked. rich larry made a pretty compelling case for gingrich as the best of the three picks, which made me think and knew about the prospects. to pick gingrich is to bring baggage past and future without a doubt because gingrich will say stuff that no normal presidential candidate could possibly imagine taking on. trump is not a normal candidate. there are people in trump's life saying a bridge too far and just too many directions regarding his past baggage and purse n purseinali
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purseinalipurse na personality. there is still upside to gingrich. how he extends the demographic map which he needs to do. >> if newt gingrich runs with donald trump, do you get permission from "the times" to write four columns a week. >> i think six would be necessary. this just doesn't make any sense to me. you are a polarizing, bully candidate. two of your candidates are -- >> you just sealed it. >> what? >> you just sealed it. >> i don't see how this makes any sense. i don't think this is something that is going to be, for either side, hillary clinton nor donald trump make a big difference. but you have to assume it will make a difference when you're making the pick. >> it's the first big decision for each candidate. >> there's some logic to doubling down on the essential core of your campaign. picking somebody to back away from it or balance it out. this is the same case for hillary clinton. double down on the idea and the contrast right there and
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certainly a newt gingrich would do some of that. >> more like triple down. >> will that confirm the inherent unreasonable of donald trump? >> you're assuming that everyone thinks the way you think and donneaw donald trump thinks he's not unreasonable. >> what about the ex-six wives matter. >> again, the -- >> talking about the social conservatives. >> they are running against -- >> that's true. >> the clintons. that issue sort of neutralizes. >> thank you for joining us. >> trying to pick somebody who has higher disapproval ratings. i mean, christie is negative. newt gingrich, i think when he left the 2012 race his disapproval ratings were around 70%. maybe donald trump would be envious. you look at hillary clinton, her approval ratings are in the low
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30s, high 20s. >> everything is the most upside down election i have seen in my life. >> it seems to me some space for me between newt gingrich and chris christie. chris christie seems to know how to, maybe i shouldn't say it this way, but stay in his lane so to speak more so than newt gingrich who is out on tv. actually, again, playing a political pundit talking about why he should be chosen and why mike pence should be chosen. >> that's why i want to ask you. you serve would him and have a history with him. 25 years ago, 22 years ago, he's the arct tect hitect. so, tell us what you think. when gingrich gets what he wants, the record is not particularly strong, right? >> so, there is an argument for and an argument against. newt gingrich brought the reagan resolution to the house of representatives.
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this is what happened when newt gingrich was speaker of the house. balanced the budget for the first time in a generation. we balanced it four years in a row for the first time since the 1920s. he passed welfare reform when everybody was raising hell saying he was throwing young babies out into the streets and he passed medicare reform and extended the life of medicare 15, 20 years while bill clinton was demagoguing it. he paid down the debt. he cut taxes. i mean, it was a pretty extraordinary two, three-year run and you could have bill clinton, of course, trying to take credit for it, which was laughable in his biography. you read the beginning of bill clinton's biography and takes credit for welfare reform and for balancing the budget. he raised living hell for two, three years. it took somebody like newt gingrich to be able to do that. he had extraordinary vision. he saw things when he started
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running in 1974 that nobody else saw. he believed in a republican majority even when i was running in '94 i laughed at the prospect of republicans taking back over the house. that's the case for newt gingrich. the case against newt gingrich, bob dole said it best on the day we were inaugurated. newt has a file of ideas. thousands and thousands of ideas. if you rifle through them, maybe one or two of them are actually good. it's a lack of focus. it's a lack of discipline. he would say things at the worst time. we are in the middle of a government shut down, willing to fight. we do put our political lives on the line to shut down the government until bill clinton agreed to balance the budget. newt gingrich gets upset because he's seated on the back of an airplane on the way to a funeral in israel, maybe if bill clinton had shown me more respect and put me in the front of the
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airplane, maybe we would balance the budget. well, we lost any high ground we had and basically we're in retreat the rest of the way. there's a reason we ran him out of town and he was just an undisciplined leader. that said, if you want an ideas guy, actually, one of his best friend said in one of the chaotic caucuses. newt, you're an extraordinary leader. you can tell us what america is going to look like 30 years from now. you just don't know what is going to happen on your own house floor tomorrow. that's newt gingrich. that's the case for and against newt gingrich. >> depends on what trump wants tause him. >> i said this from the beginning. they don't go together. it's not like reese's peanut butter cups. not two great tastes that go together. listen, if you're mike pence and you're president, you want newt gingrich. you want an idea's guy. that makes more sense. this doesn't make sense. >> bob costa.
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>> bob costa, give us your reporting. what have you got? >> based on my conversations with trump's advisors, mike pence is at the top of the list. a sense also among gingrich's friends that pence will be the pick. one of the things that changed within trump's inner circle is that they had dinner with him tuesday in indianapolis and breakfast at pence's house on wednesday morning. the campaign chairman, plus the adult children for trump, they want someone who is going to be a little bit different than their father who is not going to be the alter eagle and the combative person that a gingrich or christie will be. >> let me ask you, bob, how much do you think chris christie's past with the trump family, with jared's father, how much of a role is that playing in disqualifying a guy to me who seems to be a natural pick, chris christie? >> i think it's hurt christie's
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chances significantly behind the scenes because you have kushner pushing for gingrich and pushing for anyone really but christie. not being overtly against christie in conversations with trump, but that feeling among his friends and associates around new york that he just doesn't like the new jersey governor. he'd rather see a pence or gingrich pick. >> of course, he doesn't like him for very personal reasons. i'm wondering how much of an impact that is having donald trump getting the person he actually needs. go ahead. >> i think it's a critical thing to mention because i hear trump talks most often to paul and jerry about these kind of things right now. the family is, in a sense, a top adviser. >> so, nick, you have a front page piece of "new york times" this morning entitled "trump mines grievances of whites who
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feel lost." in making the explicit assertion of white identity and grievance more widespread, mr. trump has galvanized the otherwise marginal world of avowed white nationalests and self-described race realists. they hail him as a fellow traveler who has driven millions of white americans toward an intuitive embrace of their ideals. >> why did you write this story right now? why did you write it and why on the front page of "new york times"? >> we spent six weeks writing it. >> are you a slow writer? are you like hemingway? >> i think we felt we at the paper had not really grappled with how he talks about these issues and, more importantly, how the way he talks about it affects how other people talk
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about it. >> help me out. there is racial resentments among working class whites is one thing. but white nationanationalists, quite another. is there evidence that donald trump is specifically speaking out white nationalists for their support to whip up a sort of race war? >> no, i think what we found is the way he talks about race and asked about his endorsements by marginal figures. the way he handles it sends them in their mind a signal. i disavow and haven't heard of that person. he doesn't play the usual game of politicians who say, i don't want anything to do with that person. he sort of holds back. when you talk to the white nationals and the figures who are not part of his campaign, and part of the main stream of american politics, they say he is talking to us. he is sending a signal and, also, he is speaking some of our
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language. when he says that mexicans bring disease and crime and that islam should be banned or muslims should be temporarily banned, they are hearing part of their own language. that is the conveyer belt that fascinated me. >> frank? >> with exactly the examples he cited when you talk about the muslim ban and look at the way he handled the star of david controversy and he doesn't do what a normal politician does and come out and say in unwavering terms. you know, i want nuthing to do with this. this is not who i am. he doesn't do it quickly and expansively and i think the people you wrote about took a cue from that and signal from that and feel he's on my side. >> nick also talks about political correctness gone amuck. >> oh, absolutely. >> you don't need to be a white nationalist and a conservative to say, wait a second. things have gotten crazy on some college campuses. >> we want to be very clear
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here. the folks who are supporting donald trump, many of them are experiencing extraordinary economic insecurity. we don't want to reduce them to simply a gaggle of racists. that would be too simplistic. carries with it a kind of racist that becomes explicit. >> between racist undertone and and you said it after barack obama's 2008 speech on race. there is racism, but then there is a sort of racist resentment. why am i working next to a guy in a factory in youngstown. my kids getting a and bs and i'm white and this guy next to me is black and he is going to harvard and my kid i'll have to put in a community college. >> identifying the black kid who is getting to harvard as opposed
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the legacy who is getting into harvard suggests it is much more complicated. >> the guy on the assembly line, he doesn't even know what legacy means. >> who is he identifying as the person taking his child's place is the interesting question to ask. part of what we know is there a sense in which the zero sum approach to racial inequality. in order for us to address this cultural practice requires that we have to take something from white people and give it to undeserving people. leads to this kind of resentment. right? and then there are a host of assumptions about black folk. that they want handouts and they want something for free. >> we need to expand now beyond black folk. we now need to look, especially when we're talking about white, working class americans without jobs, they're looking at mexicans. they're looking at immigrants. i think even more than they're looking at blacks for taking their jobs away. >> but there's an interesting thing about this.
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the latest judith scar at harvard said that what is unique about the united states is that only modern constitutional state. the issue of racial slavery overdetermines, that's a fancy word, overdetermines the very notion and citizenship in this country. black, white, colors and shadows all of these interactions. not only are they ska-- the question of immigration. >> everybody's eroding white privilege. >> i would just say, this article is not saying that everyone who votes is a racist. >> make that clear. >> but what i did find in this reporting is that increasingly, white people see themselves as victims of other forces in people as the losers, right, in government and politics as a marginalized group.
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these are not usually the way we think about white people in america who are the dominant, political, economic and political players in our country for a very long time. >> john meacham, you help me write a book on the history of the republican party and we talked about while writing the book over the last 30 years resentment has played a major role in the republican party coming together. resentment against the elite media. resentment against elites and academia. resentment against elites in government. you know, basically helping everybody else out but white, working class americans. it is the others, as i said early on. donald trump versus, "the others." whether they're black, they're muslim or they're mexican. >> right. >> you know, there's a deep strain of this in american life going all the way back to the founders worrying about british conspiracy. that the british were going to
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undermine the very foundation of the republic. modern movement conservatism as you wrote about begins in many ways with the conspiracy theory that fdr had sold us out and then eisenhower comes in and they are expecting eisenhower in '52 to undo democratic betrayal and big government and, instead, eisenhower begins to manage the welfare state as opposed to dismantling it. that gets bill buckley and others upset. it proceeds forward. the great moment is after the civil rights act is assigned. and i just handed the republican party, the south to the republican party for a generation. he was wrong. it was two generations. so, you know, it is a fundamental thing. what we were just talking about the legacy of slivery is enormously important. only 50 years ago, right, in the
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lifetime, 50 years ago we were having to pass significant antiapartide voting rights legislation. it was remarkable. it was the day before yesterday. >> also fascinating as writing the book, some of the numbers we saw about how many black americans voted for republicans before that voting rights act. so, yes, the south handed to republicans, but an overwhelming number of black voters handed to the democratic party. really, it has been a split for two generations. it's pretty surprising. bob costa, you prove all the time that prev with your 15-sec answers. i'll ask you to expand a little bit more after this question. that is, where is the republican party that you talk to every day in the house of representatives and in the united states senate? is there the beginning of an understanding that the politics of resentment that they've
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exploited, that we've exploited. i'm a republican for 30 years has led them to a dead end road that now has them going to a convention in cleveland where they have a nominee that most of them are embarrassed of. >> well, in the house of representatives, a speaker in paul ryan who is in his mid-40s and came up as an aide to jack kemp. understanding the republican party needed to do more to reach out to the minority communities and tried to craft this policy agenda and hasn't gotten as much attraction as he would have hoped especially among members of his own party because of the rise of populism and a house gop pushing forward an agenda that is not driving the agenda of the republican party. you have the leadership, in a sense, grappling with this. you see at the republican national committee with their autopsy report and the kind of messages they're putting out and
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understanding that something has to change. but the institutional collapse of the party nationally, the failure of many institutions both in the economy and in politics to really have an answer for the grassroots base of the republican party makes them not follow along. >> mark, the autopsy report. the autopsy report could not have been more divergent from where the republican party ended up three years later. >> they've done almost nothing that that report recommended. i think part of the failure was the failure of the governors. the governors and former governors who ran, who tend to be the ones who have, are more in line with the realities of what that report recommended. most politically and trump beat them all and i think paul ryan, at this point, is probably the only voice with the national platform who's anywhere close to the vision of what that report laid out. >> and, yet, here you have paul ryan, a guy that i've known and loved since he was 2 ye2 years
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saying in the same sentence, donald trump is racist. his statement epitomizes racism but i support donald trump. that is the definition of a house united against itself cannot stand. the contradictions are too great. the center cannot hold. this cannot continue. >> and you mention the autopsy. look at the emerging platform. no relationship at all between the autopsy and the emerging platform from cleveland is. it's almost surreal. >> it showed they could ask nothing of him. they could ask for nothing of him. because paul ryan the speaker of the house giving his endorsement can't ask him to retract a racist statement. >> the highest ranking republican in america -- >> get nothing from him. >> listen, i don't understand the pressures that a speaker has on his shoulders, but to say, yes, what he said epitomizes racism, but he's not hillary clinton, i just, i cannot in
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1,000 years imagine those words coming out of my mouth. >> this whole thing is surreal and we started out talking about the finalists here. let's not forget. they are the finalists in part because of the number of people who took themselves out of the running before donald trump could be interested in them. when in your lifetime have you seen this many prominent up and comers in the party. donot look at my direction, i do not want anything to do with it. >> robert costa, thank you. >> we'll talk after. >> not working for you. >> thank you, bob. we'll see you in cleveland. >> we'll see you, bob, in cleveland. still ahead on "morning joe" learn more who will be speaking at next week's republican convention. chuck todd will help us break down the new nbc swing state polls. wow. >> by the way, we're thinking, frank, of doing our show from cleveland place in soho.
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could you give us a good restaurant idea? >> no, we're going to cleveland. it's going to be wonderful. >> yeah. going to cleveland place. we'll be right back. [plumber] i need to be where the pipes are. so i use quickbooks and run my entire business from the cloud. i keep an eye on sales and expenses from anywhere. even down here in the dark i can still see we're having a great month. and celebrate accordingly. i run on quickbooks.that's how i own it. why does your tummy go "grumbily, grumbily, grumbily"? no more questions for you! ooph, that milk in your cereal was messing with you, wasn't it?
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the republican national convention begins in just four days and a few dozen names on the speaker's list has just been released. mike barnicle. >> are you going to be speaking? >> no. >> you're not there? >> there conversation gets depressing after a while. >> the one we had on the break. we'll go back there in a minute. joining us from cleveland, haley jackson. let's talk about who is on the list and who is not on the list, as well. that's interesting. >> right, right. obviously, mike barnicle not on the list. i'm a little sad he's sad. i can tell you, tim tebow is on the list, guys. probably the biggest name we have. a senior campaign official confirming that he will be taking the stage next week along with people like antonio and you've also got silicon valley peter teal.
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a bunch of people that are close to donald trump, too. a long time friend, fund-raiser for the gop. we know, we have known that his children will be taking the stage, as well. but, mika, you said it is interesting who is not on the list. let's start with who we have been talking about all morning, the vp stakes. not indiana governor mike pence. what does this mean if you're reading the tea leaves. pence is maybe taking that vice presidential speaking spot thursday night or he's just not on the list because he hasn't been asked yet. there could still be some adds here. maybe bringing on board for the convention and he's not on the list either. bottom line, trump promised this show biz feel. you look at the names, not necessarily a big, glam, packed hollywood list of who's who, but you do have a lot of washington folks coming, as well. paul ryan, mitch mcconnell and formal rivals like ben carson, ted cruz, known about governor scott walker and, again, the
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people not coming. all those names you know about. the bush family. it will be an interesting week and we'll see how it all shakes out. i can't wait until you guys get here. >> what night does colin powell deliver his address -- >> say that again? >> what does colin powell come out on u.s. foreign policy? >> still a mystery, joe. >> nbc hallie jackson. many new polls in the last 24 hours paint a competitive race for the white house. a new national poll shows hillary clinton's lead over donald trump has been practically erased. 42 to 39%. new wing state polls from nbc news and "wall street journal" show a tied up race in ohio. 39-39. clinton had a six-point lead in march. >> you look at pennsylvania where she had a 15-point lead. she's ahead by nine.
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that's different from the quinnipiac poll that was in a dead heat. the iowa poll showed donald trump ahead by a couple of points. >> hillary had an eight-point advantage a month ago and now a three-point advantage in iowa. so, certainly ohio and iowa deadlocked still. >> so, this early, also, how do you read, do you even read polls and do you take them seriously? >> it matters to me. if every pennsylvania poll has hillary clinton up seven, eight, nine points. some polls show it being a deadlock then i would be concerned if i was hillary clinton. i suspect pennsylvania is actually closer to six or seven points than these polls that keep showing him tied in pennsylvania. >> a new poll from fox news finds clinton with a seven-point lead in virginia. 44 to 37. two polls out of colorado show clinton with double-digit leads in the western wing state, up ten points in the fox news poll and 11 points in the monmouth
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university poll. a tying race with likely voters in wisconsin. clinton's ten-point lead from last month's marquette poll has shrunk now at 45 to 41%. meaning trump is within the margin of error. finally, a new national poll just moments ago from "new york times" and cbs news seeing clinton losing her six-point advantage. >> mark halperin what is so fascinating is you usually have races that are 47% to 48%. it is like 40 to 40. we get two presidential candidates -- >> with the lowest approval rating you could imagine. >> pretty soon, it's going to be like 36 to 36%. >> 20 to 20. >> and two people who are pretty well known. it's not like voters, i need to learn more about this donald trump and hillary clinton before i can make up my mind. look, this is a competitive
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race. it's hard for a republican to win because the electoral college. i think the significance of the polls now is mostly psychological in terms of momentum. trump needs to go out of the first debate with a plausible argument that he can get the 270 electoral votes, that's important to win. vp pick, convention and the clinton vp picking convention and that first debate. these polls suggest totally doable that could come out with an argument that i'll win the following states and that will get me 270 electoral votes. it will be hard to go into the fall given -- >> let's bring in nbc political director and host of mtp daily, chuck todd. chuck, i'm sure like me who looked at the latest "new york times" poll 40 to 40. i mean, it sounds like halftime at a basketball game. not what you would expect. >> mirrored in all the state polls, too. that's one thing we can talk
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about places the national polls and state polls differ. in this case, one in five voters. one in five ohioans and one in five national, it's the same thing. one in five voters that are undecided, but they're probably not decided about their feelings towards trump and clinton. they're just undecided about their lesser of two evil vote here. i think that is, that is the pattern you're seeing. and the other one, joe, that is you're starting to see, really, take away quinnipiac's stubbornness or inability to poll pennsylvania. pennsylvania is a state -- i don't trust them in pennsylvania. they always have it closer than the result is. but take away pennsylvania and you see the same pattern with our polling and really most of the state polling including outside of pennsylvania. which is this, the whiter the state, the closer the race is. the more diverse, the small, but
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durable lead you see clinton opening up. look at colorado. look at virginia. look at florida. then look at iowa, look at ohio, look at wisconsin and look at pennsylvania. and if you're trump and if you're republicans. look at those numbers one more time and walk me through the path. it is just not there right now. that's a huge problem. >> you know, the polls. i don't know what the questions that were asked, but you cannot underestimate the fact that two weeks ago the director of the fbi basically told the american people she's been lying to you for two years. just reinforce so many negatives that she had coming into this race. you look at those numbers and you hear the anecdotal evidence. i'm convinced that a joe biden or a john kerry, it would be 70-30. >> frank, that's what you hear in republican circles. if jeb bush or marco rubio had gotten through, they would win 400 electoral votes.
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on the democratic side, if john kerry or john kasich. on the democratic side, you hear from top democrats. if joe biden or john kerry were running against donald trump, it would be 20 points ahead. it's extraordinary where this two-party system has brought us. >> once this is all over and we're trying to make some sense of it, how did we end up with these two candidates. how did we end up with these two nominees? there's something very wrong in the system when that is the result. >> over time on both sides of the aisle. >> i hope we have a big conversation about that because probably some reforms we need to make to the way we do this. we don't end up in a situation where americans are going to the polls with no confidence about either leader we're choosing. >> chuck todd, any gut or reporting on the vp pick that we're waiting on for tomorrow? >> look, i mean, it does seem to me it's down to pence and gingrich. >> pence and gingrich. >> one thing that i've heard from folks close to the situation has to do with the kids who think this.
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that ultimately trump will work better and play better with gingrich than he will with pence. because trump doesn't know pence well. let's say there is an issue during the campaign. trump may not give pence the same benefit of the doubt that he will give newt and you guys can figure out what moment that can be. we can all picture that moment where trump might unload on a pence. he may not unload on a gingrich. and i think that matters and then big picture wise, who makes more sense than newt, if you're trump. if you do pence or even christie, then you're going for safety. you're going for security. in some way gingrich is the roll of the dice, but isn't that the whole candidacy and isn't that the whole point here? >> i just want to say, you're right. comey did some damage to secretary clinton's candidacy, but i don't want to run past the
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claim that chuck todd just made. the whiter the state, the closer the race is. whether there were different folks, it seems to me that we have to confront what the reality is saying to us. right. that race continues to play this extraordinary role. >> i heard chuck give a remarkable. i heard chuck give a remarkable statistic. if it wasn't you, chuck, be quiet and i'll give you credit. during the democratic nominating process, bernie sanders never won a state that was more demgraphically diverse than the national average of america's population. and hillary clinton never won a state that was more white than the national average. is that right, chuck? >> i don't think that is right on the one side. you are right on the bernie sat. >> on the bernie stat. >> i think she did win a couple states that were whiter than that. >> she wanted to brick, though,
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where the money was going to win. the whiter the state, the more likely bernie was going to win. yeah, so, it sort of preordained it in both the democratic race and now national. >> joe, you were talking earlier and eddie was just referring to it. one of the great absences in the national conversation, if you can call it that we're having ongoing because of the murders and because of our inability to deal with race in this country is that volatile combination. the mix of race and class, you cannot separate them. you cannot separate them. you cannot tell one group of people who get followed when they go into home depot, black people, and not tell white people, poor white people or middle class white people why their son don't get into harvard and dartmouth. you cannot ignore it. we continue to ignore it. >> chuck todd, thank you so much for being with us.
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even though you corrected me. >> we're all being corrected. >> frank, reading your latest column of race relations in "new york times." former democratic senator evan bayh running for senator. we'll ask senator clare mccatskill whether it is the year they're taking over the senate. americans are buying more and more of everything online. and so many businesses rely on the united states postal service to get it there. because when you ship with us, your business becomes our business. that's why we make more ecommerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. the united states postal service. priority: you
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>> a u.s. senator, i recall walking into an office building just last year after being here for five years on the capital and the officer looked at me a little attitude and said the pen i know, you, i don't. show me your i.d. i'll tell you, i was thinking to myself, either he thinks i'm committing a crime impersonating a member of congress or, or what? well, i'll tell you that later that evening, i received a phone
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call from a supervisor apologizing for the behavior. mr. president, that is at least the third phone call that i've received from a supervisor or the chief of police since i've been in the senate. >> that sort of crystalizes things. senator tim scott speaking at length in the senate chamber yesterday. sharing his personal stories of being profiled in a bid to foster understanding. so, let's do more of that. joining us now, mayor of the district of columbia, muriel bowser. eddie just pointed out what he has in "time" magazine we kind of missed the story here with you. a beautiful set of letters between you and your son, which i think fits perfectly into what we're talking about here today. >> i was trying to come to terms with allison sterling's baby
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crying at the press conference and mustering up the courage to comfort her mother. i wrote to my own son explaining to him, trying to explain my own sense of helplessness and my own concern for him saying that i wished he was 7 years old, again. my child is thriving in his own way responded by saying, yeah, i sometimes wish i was a child, too. but did i remember tamir rice, he was 12. >> running a city, the capitol, and confronting these problems, what are the latest events? how do they change your thinking at all or anything that washington is doing to address? >> it certainly makes all of us want to reconnect to building great community and police relations. we feel proud in d.c. that we've come a long way in building a police department that we can be proud of.
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but every day we're focused on investing in those relationships. last year when i was here you might remember that i talked about having one of the most robust pbody cameras in the country by the end of the year all of our patrol officers -- >> what is the percentage right now of officers that have body cameras? >> we have about 1,200 of our 3,700-person force. we'll have 2,400 by the end of the year. >> the delay, is it a financial delay, administrative delay? >> no delay at all. actually, we want to roll them out such that we can study them. we have a control group out right now and then we're going to compare the two groups that by the end of the year -- >> how are you, i understand how they're used, but the results, what is on what you have captured on video now, have you applied it to any places? >> we have, actually.
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i have had the occasion now i can release footage. so it may be early in an investigation, so, i have had the occasion now to release two sets i have had the chance to release two footages. if there is a police complaint that comes in they can confidentially review the footage as well. >> what's the breakdown by race of the police department? >> we say our department reflects our city. we have to reflect in that too. i nouannounced a chance to expa our cadet program. it is for people born and raised in d.c. and know their neighborhoods. it will allow us to keep our numbers.
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>> that's critical. mike has talked about how you have people who can't afford to live in the cities that they police, having to drive, 40, 50 minutes in. >> it is still a concern for us too. >> right, so what are some of the other areas of concern other than body cameras? >> to your point they aren't the end all be all. you still have to have police that work with communities. let's face it, the way we are able to solve crime is the way we have cooperation. we make sure if there's an issue they can get their complaints heard and their complaints have a real airing. we have a fantastic chief of police, very long-term chief of police. she is focused on training and making sure our officers know how to deescalate and making
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sure we are supporting that. >> go ahead. >> it's too long. >> all right. the major of washington d.c. thank you for being here. >> thank you. celebrity apprentice vice presidential edition. "morning joe" is coming right back.
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i suspect some time tomorrow that mike and i will both get phone calls. one of us will be packing our bags to go to new york and the other one will be going to watch it on tv.
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>> that sounds like someone of confidence. >> that's the apprentice. >> yes. >> you think newt is? >> i do. >> you still think it will be newt. >> i do. i think that's what's going to happen. >> really? >> yeah. i could be wrong. great way to start the show. just diving off. all right. good morning. today is thursday, july 14th. we have mike barnacle. they mock you every time. >> it's love. >> no. they mock you. >> it's time. >> richard hass in cleveland, ohi ohio -- >> it's a plant. >> it's modern. >> somebody got shot. >> how terrible. >> clean it up.
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>> mark halprin. and -- there you go. >> mitcham with circuit 1957. so mitcham, we are leading up to -- >> no. don't do that. so we are leading up to the vice presidential sweepstakes, this one unlike any other. trump is running it like a reality game show. it is sort of apprentice. he makes people try out. >> it is like when munger brought people up and down that driveway. i would bet a cig nif dasignifit
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of money trump is probably not sure. >> hillary clinton doing the same thing. she has been trying people out. you want to see how they perform in public. it's someone you will be spending a lot of time with. you better like him. >> she narrowed it down to three people. >> uh-huh. >> all tim cane. >> no. >> it will end up there like because it's boring. is that bad to say? >> i loved him. >> tim is a great guy. she a senator. he knows foreign policy. he is exciting. i think we have enough of that to share. >> we should take a look at the swing state polls. donald trump will reveal.
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that the announcement will come in manhattan at 11:00 a.m. with trump's plane out commission gingrich met with trump for about two and a half hours. sessions went as well. they tell nbc he is not a finalist for v.p. trump met with mike pence this time at his family's home. >> we put out a breakfast spread and served coffee and breakfast this morning. just had good conversation as a family together. these are good people. he will be a great president.
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you can tell a lot about a person. >> i think that pence has a terrific ability and that he is known to the republican governor's association. i think he would be a very stabilizing force. i think a lot of people are a little jittery about trump would feel reassured talking with pence and he could spend a good bit getting them inside. i think my strength is totally different. i'm an outsider. i am oriented towards communicating big ideas and being on television. so i think trump has his -- does he want a second person who is really as effective on
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television or does he want somebody who is really good at reaching out on a personal basis to a lot of people that trump may not be able to reach on his own? >> chris christie is somebody i like fard long tid for a good t. i am narrowing it down. i am at three, potentially four. in my own mind i am probably thinking about two. i want to pick somebody who is very good, solid, smart. i'm not looking for an attack job. i'm looking for somebody that really understand what we are talking about. >> who do you think those two are? >> i think it's probably newt and pence. >> really? >> i think it's newt and christie. >> i think without a doubt it should be christie.
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he can prosecute the case against her than anybody else. you bring up a bridge information. you say yeah, they investigated me for closing one lane. they investigated me for actually putting america's national security at risk. okay. let's talk about the investigations. we talk about them every day and we'll be just file. >> the role has changed so much in the last four presidency. the old one was about regional balance. >> everything has changed. >> it has changed into more of a counselor role. when you think of it it was dick cheney, joe biden. it was not people who offered political advantage to the nominee. >> uh-huh. >> i think christie feels like he is more in the counselor role. >> he really does. and by the way, people who say he is 26% in new jersey, that's
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one or two day stories. people do not care what's in the rear-view mirror. they care what's ahead of them. >> and trump's election of vice president will be very important. can the person who is selected succeed donald trump if anything were to happen. i mean if trump agitates congress to where they decide to impeach him, can the vice president succeed the president? the democratic for vice president is more interesting because of the president's -- former president bill clinton in the white house. >> yeah. >> so tell me why i'm wrong. let's say it's down to newt and pence. i think newt and trump together are just two volatile chemicals you wouldn't want to put in the
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same container. and mike pence is just not ready for this. i mean it takes a special person to be ready for dealing with the chaos his campaign could bring every day. i know mike would be an able guy. he has been an able leader. as far as the rough and tumble he is so off brand from donald trump that it makes absolutely no sense. i think bad things would happen. >> i wish y'all had been with me in indianapolis yesterday. i have never had a day quite like it. part of it i think was just a spectacle. part of it was a family really trying to make a decision as a family about what to do even though the rest of the family clearly believes it is up to donald trump to decide.
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i think all three of them could be perfectly solid picks if launched correctly. >> let's talk about the r risks. we know pence may not be ready for prime time, this kind of carnival atmosphere. why is chris christie a risk? >> the first time i would say is not just the bridge but when mitt romney was concerned. he is the best brawler in american politics. there are others that the romney lawyers looked at and said this is just a breach too far. christie never addressed those things. >> are those things not extraordinarily small compared to the man at the top of the ticket? are people really going to get consumed by chris christie
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stories from the past when they have so many stories to focus on with donald trump. >> did you think they would be concerned with dan quail's draft record? >> trump wasn't at the top of the ticket. >> i agree but we are also in a new world where democrats will go hard at who is picked. i think trump's chance of winning is how many are about clinton and how many about other things. >> what made yesterday so unusual for you. you said it is the most interesting day you encountered. >> we are in indianapolis. you know, i want after the governor's and all of a sudden the trump kids showed up and
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then donald trump showed up sort of after it. most of the action was at a very nice problem where trump and pence had a nice dinner. press swarming all over the hotel. he says, well, i'm down to two, maybe four, maybe three and basically trump saying down to two. the two gingrich says is gingrich and pence. i was told by two people that christie is still in the mix here. >> and again, so john, let's go back to -- and donald trump watches the show and his family watches the show and they are watching now. of course 84 million people across america watch. >> that's not happening.
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>> i'm not -- they haven't picked out of the boxes. >> so maybe they are. maybe they are not. so if we go back, the disasters. for presidential elections, aren't they the dan quail? >> it's a llt moment. she wasn't quite ready for dealing with what was happening with her husband. stockdale, you can go down the list. i always say, and with all due respect to scott walker, i mean he because one of my favorites. i said he is not ready. that's my argument for chris christie. he delivered the best town hall
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meeting addresses around new jersey. he made us cry around here talking about his friend who died. he gutted the future of the republican party, rubio, finished him in one delbate. i am doing my political analysis. if you want to avoid crisis isn't the first thing you do is get a -- >> yeah. >> and the way i some times think of it is the best kind of vice president passes the helicopter test. can you imagine of grave crisis this personing getting off and taking over. by this standard though reagan was not excited about it, it is
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why vice president quail didn't work. bush won but spent four years trying to recover from that moment. i think you're right. my own view is that speaker gingrich feels like trump with a a -- people really vote for the president, that's the most important thing. secondly, vice presidents help when they offer a reassuring sense if the worst happens they will be able to run the country with a steady hand. >> it's the first sort of presidential decision. >> i think all three of these
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have down guides. mark it successfully. if they market themselves suck fli i have to determine why this person is the best. christy hz the most upside. still i head, we follow the lead in krit siding comments about donald trump. more on that, you ahead. >> you're watching ford ford. we'll be right back. with the da from over 30 billion connected devices. just 30 billion? a bold group of researchers and computer scientists in silicon valley,
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ginsburg has been going after donald trump. >> they were friends and they would be laughing with each other right now and making fun of other candidates. i think she misses havin having scalia. >> joking about fleeing to new zealand if he won and going so far as to call him a faker, denounce his ego. >> okay. that is pretty incredible. >> look at that post. come on. >> we are talking about ethical violations.
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as a judge you're not to choose sides in federal campaigns. >> she just did. >> still. >> but how do you tell circuit court judges you can't do this but the supreme court -- >> i don't think americans want to see supreme court judges doing hot takes. that's what she is doing. this is not what she is paid to do. >> did you think it would go this far? >> he would -- did he -- >> no. that's not okay. >> i don't think she is the first to kind of break down some of these boundaries but it doesn't help how americans view the court. it doesn't help the job they are supposed to do. there are plenty of people who can offer takes on whether he should be president or not. it is weird to see it be on the
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level of a twitter commenter. >> i remember reading a report watching returns in 2000. she said i guess we'll have to be here for four more years. she said that as an offhanded remark at a cocktail party that was recounted. that's disturbing. that said at a cocktail party. talking to the press it seems to take it to another level. >> yeah, i think so. it's not a great moment for the court. we are at a point where the institutions of the country aren't trusted. congress has an approval rating within the margin of error. no body wants to have hearings on -- or the republicans don't want to have hearings on garland. i think it helps suggesting the
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court is above politics which is a youthful myth. >> and trump tweeted if he wins the presidency we will swam swamp ginsburg with real judges and real legal opinions. >> sounds a bit like harlin. he also said she owes the country at large an apology and questioned her fitness to serve. >> i don't think anybody has ever seen that before. >> are you questioning her mental capacity? >> i think i am. i think i'm questioning her mental capacity. it was either a very dumb mistake -- i mean the new york times just wrote an editorial. i think i'll have to frame that editorial. >> it was out of bounds.
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>> brett really had the pull that out of donald trump. coming up on "morning joe," senator will be with us. we'll talk about the cardinals chances of actually making up seven games to catch the cubs. not looking good. we'll be back.
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i would hope all of us are -- comments of people like donald trump. and i intend to do everything i can to make certain that donald trump does not become the next president of the united states. >> donald trump spent years peddling trump university, a sham college that his own former employees refer to as one big fraudulent scheme. now he is being sued for fraud and for lying to the most vulnerable people he could find, lying to them and leaving them in debt. >> he is saying he will make america safe again. is that your response to laugh?
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>> well, i would rather not make this story about donald trump. >> okay. hillary clinton right now is enjoying a slew of really high profile democrats. >> they are going on the attack. >> joining us now from capitol hill, another one. she is a delicate flower. >> and with a soft voice. >> claire, how are you? >> good morning. >> let's talk about what's happening on capitol hill. are we sensing a spirit of unity on the hill? we have read about it. we certainly read stories about people coming together after that tragedy. are you sensing any of that on the hill? >> i think the majority of americans in this country want two things very badly.
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they want our jis tis system to treat everyone equally and they want us to protect and respect our law enforcement. a lof of us are rather than realizing our country is a country of many colors and we all have to come together. we can't divide us by our religion or race or gender. we have to really try to unify. we have trouble unifying. i think the republican party is really split in their ranks. i mean i think paul ryan is having a very difficult time with his caucus. >> just talk about the republican -- is this a.
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>> trump became a republy conditional when one party in -- >> and you just pro vied the quote of the day. our founding fathers were a little maniacal. >> well, they were. you know, if donald trump would bather to read the constitution that means there is a special obl lag -- >> isn't dla some fear donald koufrp would be.
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i laugh and go you step in the white house. >> hey, reason. i think the founding -- compromi compromise. they believed this compromise for america. republicans have failed in some basics. the idea that we couldn't even have a hearing -- >> totally agree with you. >> i agree with you there. for those starting listening do you agree harry reid failed for not getting an apropuations bill passed for years? >> absolutely. guess w >> why is washington so broken? i'm not putting this on
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democrats. i'm not putting it on republicans or democrats. >> when i came to the senate in 207 there were probably 37 to try to make proo gesed, not pin pished. let . >> so there is the problem with primary and then there is the. >> and why didn't he get knocked around for last year as well?
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>> we have to have people who want to make them realize moderation is not evil. and i know some of the bernie supporters don't like to hear that and ted cruz supporters don't reich to hear thlike to h. i know it will be. >> so let's talk about hillary clinton. can she do it and also, how is she going to sort of climb out of this low point that she is? i know you can discount polls and approval ratings but you have to look at them in light of the comey states. how does she prove she can be trued? >> i think clearly the e-mail story is problems.
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comey said d and dozens agree she has nod broke any laws. that's pretty extraordinary. >> i totally hear you on that. it's more where people's minds are on her. >> i understand. >> it's not whether or not she broke the law. >> iens whether you want someone who thinks this issing kpeb. i preticket he will pick pen m we he care more appearance you
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no he is than some and cuts a smart figure. >> something no body has ever said that about you or me. >> no. >> and i'm proud to say that. >> and i don't think he wants either christie or gingrich in the long run. pence is not capable of over shadowing him. can we stick with the cosmetic politics? not for the first time but i was speaking with one of your colleagues recently and the issue of clinton's appearance came up, not her physical appearance. it was this. i was voiced -- >> i will walk out this segment.
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>> i'm out of here. >> it was observation rather than criticism. it is when she is with people like yourself or others, she comes off as basically who is saying you no right to be in the hallway during home room period. can it be bridged? i think the country wants to see more of who clinton really is. >> yeah, i think when i came to the senate i was notable with how many worked with clinton one on one. i think she will be able to get down done.
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i think she will be terrific because of that. i get what you're saying but i think there's a double standard. i think she exudes strength and determination when she is in the public arena. part of that is that she has been beaten up. she wants to show everyone she is strong and tough and can handle it. that means her personality is different. i would say a lot about it. ted cruz comes off like yuck when he is talking. >> he is totally not -- >> i think it applies to men and women but some times i think there's more of a focus who sound strong and determined. >> i agree with that. --
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>> listen. let's go back to what everybody said about on 46. everybody saying if he could be. >> yeah, it's more p traenetrat. >> yeah. what bothered you more the neck and neck polls we have seen coming out of pennsylvania or the cardinals being seven back. >> now she will get -- >> the cardinals are in the same place you goos are. the difference is the cubs have a ris history offing it i is
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every year. >> and wl see who is there. how are you feeling? ? i feel great. >> maybe i'll get some on-set time. >> you'll get all you want. >> thank you very much. >> ahead we'll bring in kelly. h stay with us. we'll be right back. to have it. it meant a lot to him... yes, ge makes powerful machines. but i'll be writing the code that will allow those machines to share information with each other. i'll be changing the way the world works. (interrupting) you can't pick it up, can you?
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go ahead. he can't lift the hammer. it's okay though! you're going to change the world.
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presidential pick? >>. >> reporter: i am hearing it is still wide open this morning but that trump has a difficult choice on his hands because there are different people in his inner circle, people he trusts and likes who see a different fit for him in making this election. as you know, pence, gingrich, christie are the names still in this. there are differing views about what needs to take place. there is a looking at this v.p. choice over time. what is the picture? what does it represent for the party? there is the day in, day out battle for this campaign. who is best equipped to carry out the duties of a running mate? there are some differing views. there is the issue of who can help behind the scenes, who can keep him comfortable and who can
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keep him at ease to perform himself. it is to be a partner in the white hot spotlight. we know the official thing is tomorrow at 11:00. we are certainly hoping once a decision is made and perhaps whispered to a few people that is certainly coming up. >> thank you. and we have aleze jordan. the latest is called the gpo lead protests erupted around the country. five white dallas police officers were killed by a ral
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radicalized sniper. the growing unease growing around the country. a revelation for many white americans, a big government approach threat bs america's foundational principals of equality and justy fice for all. there's an opportunity for republicans to lead, retrieve and. today 2.2 americans are behind bars. it's time for republicans to admit that the system is unequal and kwaisful and do something -- wasteful and do something about it. can the republican party do
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that? >> i fmt this is something rand paul has pushed for a long time. there has ban sentencing bill that unfortunately just hasn't gotten the attention it needs. >> why is it not moouing? >> i think think they have been here than any in he cent hi ri. >> can you see a majority of the parties tearing up the mandatory sentencing bills of the early 90s that were passed in creation to the crack cocaine epidemic? >> i think they are part of the pron it m and that's simply a
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crass issue. at ho this time about a lot of equalities and that african americans have felt too often. >> do republy caps have a blind spot on this? >> i think so. this is what tim scott. >> i think it was so brave and powerful. i think tim scott getting up and saying i have been a senator for five years and i was challenged on my lapel pin. they supposed to know who they are and he was unsect against
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this race. >> i think christie could be a great person to push this. >> he could. he has done a lot in noj noj. be up next, we return from the republican can s con tenner. keep et mere here -- here on "morning joe."
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i realize our politics connect to the division many americans feel right now. as someone in the middle of a hotly fought political campaign i cannot stand here and claim that my word and actions haven't some time feels that uchb stands in the way of progress. i recognize i have to do better too. >> that is it i loved heari hl
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clinton yes. he iss as parent as hillary clinton. it is always. et would you condition. i have been ka -- but you can see a smiley face on the bottom of the camera. it is to be happy. this is a great country.
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this fact that you're asking me this question, he ends uppen i'll mac sure. >> so let me ask you something. there is question that america is pulling apart at the seams like 1968. the president of the united states doesn't believe that. most of us around this table, we don't believe that either. we believe americans, for the most part are united. what do you say to those?
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>> go out into the small towns, the cities, schools that i go to. travel with me and go with leg lar americans. they want it in the same thing. there is no question we have challenges here. i have learned a great deal about this issues. we have got to listen to the story and struggles. i would find there are formore than unites us than divides us. i think it is not netsly about the faults of individual candidates but it is about hopes and dreams and aspirations. i'm sure that clinton the prepared to have that conversation and trump is as
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well. >> all right. one of the nicest guys are have in washington. >> we hope to have you back and come on-site. >> all right. we are back in just a moment. i just saved thousands on my loan at lendingtree.com. in less than a minute, i found out how much home i can afford. i like how you shop for loans the same way you shop for flights online. i didn't realize that at lendingtree you can save money on almost any sort of loan. i consolidated my credit card debt with a personal loan.
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the country continues to be a haven for money laundering. with opposition running strongly against the iran deal there's a chance that the next u.s. administration may abandon in the face of iranian defiance. >> it is really scary. >> the safety of your employees, the threat of sanctions. >> iran is a tough place to do business anyway. it is 130 on the banks is. i don't know what 129 is but 130 is pretty bad. >> the moerl threats are even deeper. doing business is not worth the ris risks. mike, what have you learned today? >> there is an amazing array of
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celebrities that will appear. >> the line is incredible. the roster -- >> you know it's upper west side moms that are the fan girls. >> whatever. >> let's stop audiocassetting abo -- let's stop. what have you learned? >> i think it will be newt. >> what do you say? >> christie. >> i think it's christie. >> it would be the best bet which is why it will be who t not. all right. stephanie picks up live from cleveland. >> reporter: good morning. i am live in cleveland, ohio. we are days away from the republican convention. we are

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