nation. and i'm going to take hoozyer ideas. let's make indiana the first state to make donald trump the 45th of the united states and send another hoosier to the vice president office. >> good morning, welcome to "am joy" and coming to you live from erie island, -- coffee, and donald trump has picked mike pence as his running made. he spent the indiana governor packing. he traveled home to represent a gop rally in indianapolis. some wondered why trump soaked up to soak up the spotlight with a rambling 28-minute speech and when he went back to mike pence before talking about himself. and where pence diversed on
trade policy but hillary clinton tweeted this out during the saturday morning appearance. well, we have plenty to say about pence. here you go. and listed all of that. and now with me is al cardin and joan walsh, thank you for being here. and first, al, you were a jeb guy. he is a never-trumper. where are you on mike pence. does it make him more attractive to you as a republican. >> i like mike pence. i support mike pence. when i was chairman of the american conservative union he was head of the republican study group. so he respected intellectually in the congress and respected as a governor. the retail politicians is donald trump. the insider will be mike pence. his job is to convince the 30 governors to go campaign for the ticket and convince house members who are skeptical that the ticket is a responsible one and he'll be good judgment to the equation. >> but it is an interesting
choice on the part of donald trump. he is gone with somebody who is an evangelical and shore up the base even though they were with donald trump and somebody that the capitol hill version of the party will be comfortable with but he hasn't done anything, in this convention is different from 2012 because you don't have the young, non-white stars. no nikki haley, no marco rubio. and not a lot of diversity on the stage. and as you, yourself are adding new parties and voices to the party and are you upset that trump has doubled down on essentially white voters. >> i tweeted there are more hispanics playing in the final of the british open than speaking at the rnc convention. we're rich -- senator tim scott is here and we've done so much better out there in promoting
minorities and this should have been more representative but we'll see how it comes across. at this time, i'm on the fence. >> and you're a maybe trumper. and joan, you did have an immediate response from the clinton campaign to this pence pick and it zeroed in, in particular, on two constituency groups, mainly women and lgbt people. let's look at this right out of the box clinton ad that talks about pence. take a look. >> are you willing to hold up this entire budget over defunding planned parent hood. >> well, of course i am. >> i long for the day that roe
versus wade -- >> i think this represents them blinking to the washington insiders but giving up the thing that made him scary to democrats which is that he is unorthodox on lgbt and praise planned parenthood but not the abortion part but he does go on his new york values, what ted cruz knocked him for and he is reaching beyond the base and playing to the narrow republican base and not a play to any other voters, not a play to voters of color or to women. i think it makes it tougher. and i think it underscores the tent to which this -- underscores the attempt of the establishment to get so conservative because he is awful on choice issues. he signed a bill that would require women with abortions or miscarriages to bury the fetus.
he led the charge to de-fund planned pla planned parenthood. >> and at the same time, al, he waffled on the freedom restoration act. and some evangelicals are angry at pence and think he is not conservative enough because he doesn't go all the way on the bill that they thought discriminated against lgbt people. do you think there is a risk of having pence out there takes away from the unorthodox part of trump's plan that might have helped him with others. what do you think? >> evangelicals are an important part of the base and that box is checked by mike pence. this is going to be determined by who is liked the least. the poll put out today is 50% are voting for trump because
they don't like hillary clinton and 50% are voting for hillary clinton. and i think it is all about the base. and we'll see what turn-out is like but if you don't get your base out there -- >> it is a base election. >> i have to play this little clip from 60 minutes, the joint interview with the two candidates together because of the thrones. i'm playing it because they are sitting on golden throwns. >> there is a lot about it. >> it is interesting. and this is mike pence attempting to answer the question of whether he is going back on his earlier pledges in his political career not to engage in negative campaigning. let's take a listen. >> what do you think about your running mate's campaign and the tone and negativity about it. >> i think this is a good man talking about the issues the -- >> but name calling? >> you have to believe it. hillary is a crook.
>> that is a negative. >> i call her crooked hillary. i didn't ask him to do it. but i don't think he should do. because it is different for him. >> i just -- i look at -- i'm looking over at trump like, this is how it is going to be, huh? right? donald trump is going to jump in and answer the questions himself and mike pence is sort of furniture, a golden thrown furniture. >> you are talking to someone who is for civility and problem-solving, that is not the norm there. but trump got to where he got by being difficult with fear and concern and he won't change who he is. i don't believe that mike pence is the retail candidate as i said. i think he is the insider trying to get the party comfortable with supporting the ticket. >> i did feel sorry for pence. his eyes looked die. he rail -- realized, i signed off. and even though he doesn't say
crooked hillary, he has to be there and it doesn't look like it sits well for him. >> and for the other party, he could campaign with marco rubio who doesn't want trump near him and campaign in the re-elected in north carolina and states where republicans have vulnerable, right? >> right. and he will bring out the base and in some senate races he will play well and in others he won't. i don't know what he does for marco rubio in florida. you two know more than i do. but i think marco rubio needs to reach out. does mike pence help with that. >> another reason for mike pence is, look, we're not doing well in diverse states like colorado and virginia, but midwest is the tree to winning the white house and pence is a werner and he will spend time in those states.
>> and we talked to steel workers in lorraine and i think ohio is the pivotal state. so i think that is true. i can't let you go without getting a prediction. could trump win florida. >> tough but not impossible. >> thank you. you'll be back on later in the show. and up next, taking a look at a part of cleveland where you won't find a single republican voter. true story. stay with us. ♪ ♪ take on the unexpected with a car that could stop for you. nissan safety shield technologies, available in the altima, sentra and maxima. now get 0% apr for up to 72 months, plus $500 bonus cash. ♪ and i quit smoking with i'm chantix.
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republican. jacob soberoff shows us what is happening in cleveland. >> in ohio's primary in this cleveland precinct and in several others, donald trump didn't get a single vote. he shouldn't take it too personally. neither did any other republican. and beyond the three precincts without a republican vote as the cleveland plain dealer discovered, in additional 15 east of downtown, only a solitary voter cast a ballot in each for gop. >> what is the deal with not having too many trump fans around here. >> people want somebody who will speak to their needs and issue. >> this reverend preached in the heart of this democratic strong-hold. >> have you ever met a trump supporter that has come into your church or in this neighborhood? >> no. >> not one. >> never. >> do you have the best barbecue in town. >> in the world. at wayne whitmore's in mt.
pleasant, republicans have their issues. >> what are your important issues. >> the kids and he's going to be their president and so it is harder for them. >> who did you vote for? >> hillary. >> you look at me like i'm crazy. >> he's not the right material. >> what makes hillary the right material. >> because she's already been in politics. >> she might not be the right one but we have the best one right now. >> trump might need these voters to win the white house and despite the convention taking place miles away, when it comes to politics, it is a world apart. >> and jacob is here joining me now with jamil smith for mtv news and a cleveland native harping on the cavaliers winning for like 20 minutes. >> tell me about it. >> that is all we hear from jamil now. and so jacob, you go into the
precincts with no trump voters, granted, how important is that in swinging the state. are they outliers? >> good question. if you look at why mitt romney lost ohio in 2012 in cuyahoga county, if he would have done better and there is the outer ring that is the more suburb white and republican, frankly, areas, but if he would have done better in the county and the city, he would have had a chot. >> this is a diverse city. it is diverse with latinos and african-americans and really diverse so is this a state that trump is realistically targeting. it is close in the polls. >> it is hard for him to overcome his reputation as a scavenger and a business man. hes had a company that made cold calls to sell sub prime mortgage calls. i don't think he has a receptive party here and the republicans
have conceded the african-american vote and i'm not seeing any effort to make up that ground. >> and we have our nbc news and wall street journal poll, and we have 84% for clinton and 7% for trump and white different, trump at 50 and clinton at 37% and then you go to ohio and get a big goose egg for donald trump, zero for donald trump, with the margin of error that could be up to 3%. the voters that you talked to, what was their objection of trump. >> like you heard both of the men and the women in the piece say, they don't feel like they relate to him, like he has what it takes to help folks in their neighborhood. it comes down to that. we were talking before i came out, i met a gentleman who lives in one of the neighborhoods that i was in, and when he heard mike pence speak differently, what that could mean for the trump
numbers, i can't tell you right now, but for him, maybe give-a second look. >> and donald trump has gone after muslims and hispanics and mexican-americans and he hasn't specifically -- but he hasn't directly gone after african-americans so there was some thinking that maybe the working class or the blue-collar jobs might boost trump. what do you think about that. >> those in my neighborhood would say he went an african-americans when he called president obama a kenyan and saying he was partially responsible for the orlando attacks because he has inspired them with his "black lives matter" rhetoric. i think black people could see what trump may or may not be presenting to them. he doesn't have to say an open slur but we know he is dising them. >> and the abc washington poll asked should the next president
put a major focus on improving race relations and 83% said yes f. you are looking at a country divided racially, donald trump is putting the country in a strange place. did you get that people need to worry about that? >> to me, what it comes down to is when i go to the barbecue place and at the church, people say he doesn't get what it goes on here. it might not be a drill down on particular issues, like for that one woman it was education. but i don't relate to it. >> were there people with cultural affinity to donald trump. he is a celebrity. >> business is what came up in the neighborhoods and some of the neighborhoods could use more and new jobs and i think they see a guy like donald trump and say well he has been successful in business, how is he going to help me. i'm not sure i've heard that from him yet. >> we're here in cleveland but back in brooklyn, i hear people chatting about donald trump in a
predominantly black neighborhood, yeah, donald trump is a baller and rich and for the first time i heard ridicule, saying he is not rl a billionaire and the -- he is not really a billionaire and the turn in his small scientific sample, do you detect any of that. >> that is what happens when you run for president. you are exposed to this scrutiny. he would have been better off if he retired as a reality star and left his legacy to the annuals of history. if he is running for president, we are getting to know who he actually is. >> we did a story yesterday about some of the sub-prime issues that did hit cleveland hard. and trump was selling real estate ideas and did you get from people in the neighborhoods that donald trump is dishonest in terms of his business. >> well, yes, from some. but in the neighborhood, when you walk down the street, i think 118th at the beginning of the piece and you look at the
houses that are empty and abandoned and if that message is communicated to those neighbors where this man is running for president, that is not a good thing for donald trump. >> and you heard one of the women say, hillary clinton may not be the best but she is the best we've got. >> there is a definite and heavy strain within the african-american vote with people who think this is the only person we have to stop donald trump. this is all we've got. so whether or not she has some warts, whether we agree with the welfare bill or the other things during the clinton administration, we're going to vote for her. >> and i have to ask you about republicans and we're talking a lot about donald trump, but not finding a single republican voter, period. and even talking about in '12, what do you make of that. >> mitt romney, in the general election, was skunked out in 16 precincts in cuyahoga county. so donald trump in the primary was 0 for 3 and mitt romney did
far worse. so that is not a promising sign for donald trump in the general election. >> no. he did better than mit. the 47%. this is a lot of fun. thank you for being here. and up next, an unflinching look into the minds of undecided swing voters in another part of ohio. don't go away. if you have a typical airline credit card, you only earn double miles when you buy stuff from that airline. wait...is this where you typically shop? you should be getting double miles on every purchase! switch...to the capital one venture card. with venture, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, everywhere, every day. not just ...(dismissively) airline purchases. seriously... double miles... everywhere. what's in your wallet? now you can't spell nutriam i right?t nut, i mean whose to say it's pronounced nu-triton, anyway? my mixes contain delicious nuts,
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good-paying, blue-collar jobs. after the plant closed, the town was anchored by two big steel plants, u.s. steel and republic steel that have been around since the 1890s. but all of that has changed. >> so i want to start out by asking you to raise your hand if you worked or have ever worked at u.s. steel. all right. unanimous. now raise your hand if you've worked or work at republic steel. now i want you to raise your hand if you still work at either of those places? just one guy. lee simons was forced to retire when republic steel shut down operations and shedding 200 jobs. >> when i grew up, i thought it was a place that would be there for ever. when i personally started in a plant, we had 8300 people working. >> we went from manufacturing to
dollar stores. >> driving through the town of 64,000 people, it is hard to miss the number of dollar stores. >> at the height of it, we were growing fast and the future looked bright. >> when we came to the american legion hall in lorraine and sat down with these seven life-long steel workers all who voted for barack obama and six out of seven voted for the president again in 2012, we asked them who they thought was to blame for the way things are today? seven years after the auto bailout that saved detroit and supposed to help steel towns like lorraine. many blame nafta and other free-trade deals but tim blake, a third generation steel worker, forced to retire from republic steel after 35 years, said the slide began well before the 1994 trade pact with mexico and canada. >> i wrote a song in 1982 and i
recently just put it back out there, and 34 years later, exactly the same thing happened. ♪ so their shutting down our factories, bringing steel from oversae a overseas and turned their back on this hard-working town. >> and when president clinton was in office, guys were working. and so we would support him even though you may not agree with nafta, you we working. but then you slowly started to see the jobs disappear and it is a trickle down effect and it keeps going on and now it continues and like you said, the tpp, there is nothing left of us. there is no steel manufacturing being done in lorain again. >> and we'll hear more from the ohio voters in the next hour. and up next, trump's lessons on how to win the housing crisis. stay with us. ♪
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following the cavaliers first ever nba championship, it is all eyes on cleveland for the second time this summer. this week tens of thousands of people are expected to flood the city for the republican national convention and what are we likely to see? amped up security, check. and publicity, check. and something you won't hear about during the four-day extravaganza. when the housing bubble peaked and burst and ravaging neighborhoods in cleveland and across the nation. trump through his business seminar trump university taught students how to cash in on the mortgage foreclosures like the one here in cleveland for financial gain. and joining me now is cleveland city councilman and daniel
mcgrath. and tell us about this story about trump university and the crash that took place here. >> well all of this was going on in cleveland in sort of 2005 to 2007. everybody was seeing that the foreclosure mess was hitting hard here, with the subprime loans and the banks were seeing this might go off a cliff and some responded and some didn't. and trump set up a fake school where he is going to teach people how to make money off of foreclosed properties and they have been in seminars and there were lawsuits because it wasn't just banks and trumps and people using fake names and it made the mess much worse. >> and what did that do to the neighborhoods like the one you represent. >> it is devastating. when you see this many properties foreclosed on and
passed back and forth with reckless disregard and that caused abandoned properties and properties that were striped and a loss of value of properties. >> and from cnn, there was an extraordinary interview with a former trump university instructor and he talks about what they were pushed to do and let's take a listen to that. >> there an e-mail you wrote, i just spoke to austin and the older retired couple who had to pull the $30,000 for the gold and she said it is done and should be in monday. >> that is called sales. >> is that called ripping off an old couple. >> absolutely not. >> $80,000. >> that is sales. that is a sales e-mail between two sales people working on a deal. i don't know if those people had the money or not. they could have been putting up their last dollar. i don't know. >> and buzzfeed has put out sort
of the ads run in newspapers for trump university that said if you are not a millionaire by december 2008 you didn't atoward my foreclosure -- didn't attend my foreclosure workshop and many are making millions and so can you. and does that make sense. >> trump wasn't doing seminars in ohio, he was concentrating in the southern states because there was more money there. but the telling thing was the texas attorney general office had a study they did in 2009 that said the training material we received indicate that the trump university three-day seminar attendees are taught to prey upon homeowner's financial turmoil and target foreclosed property. it is coming from the texas a.g. and saying that trump is fraudulent in his dealing with the tunds but telling people to -- students but telling people to prey on this stuff. >> and the texas attorney general with drew that
investigation and so did the florida attorney general pam bondi who is speaking here. and that is interesting. and i want to talk about the new york attorney general, snyderman, what he had to say and this was on morning joe back on july 2nd. >> this is fraud. this is a straight up fraud. it is like selling people something you say is a mercedes that turns out to be a volkswagen. and even if some people like the volkswagen, it is still fraud because it is not a mercedes. >> and you've seen texas and new york and why hasn't the ohio attorney general looked into this. >> our attorney general has looked into this, but not necessarily trump but other partners. i've showed up at the hotels where they are doing the seminars and i've gone after this and the attorney general has got good settlements and they've dealt with the aftermath of the foreclosure crisis which is demolition and clearing the
table because we have a lot of distressed left behind. and so after one, they are going after many and they are getting settlements which is why people drop them, because they get the settlement to clear it up. >> and were there successful numbers of people that came forward and said they were defrauded. could this wind up in campaign commercials here? >> that is part of the story. part of the story is that he was selling this fake school idea, how is he going to teach people but people aren't focusing on what he was teaching, he was not only defrauding the attendees, he was telling them to defraud other people as well. so it is kind of -- >> what do you mean by that? >> that he was teaching people how to use shell corporations and fake corporations to buy 100 properties and keep flipping them and then not pay the taxes and just dump on them. so he was doing more than just defrauding the attendees, he was helping to put on a lot of city
like cleveland another layer of things. >> what do you say councilman, to people who say we know this about trump and he is still a businessman and billionaire and hired more people than hillary clinton ever has and so what do you say to people who say so what? they listen to the a.g.s and they don't care. >> it is sad what people have compartmentalized what we are willing to accept and that is not what a leader should be. we have folks that should have to step up and take responsibility. when all you can say is i will bankrupt the next company and that is what these folks have done. >> and marco rubio went after trump on this issue and john kasich did not and who will not setting -- set foot in the arena from what i understand. why didn't he use this more, do you think? >> i think if you watch john
kasich in how he's dealt with president in ohio, he's tended to run toward the middle. and that is probably why he's not in the -- why he's not in the race any more. so he's not -- he's not taking any kind of views on this. he's been working kind of -- like in the background, tony. >> yes. >> but on a state or local governmental level this is clearly something you are thinking about. >> this is a big issue. what is very sad and i can't wait until we get past this to talk about the housing market and real things in our neighborhoods because nobody is touching that issue. eight years ago we had a forum and we brought in hillary clinton and barack obama campaign and had a great session talking about what is going on in our neighborhoods. we have to get past the international -- the name-calling, everything that is getting people riled up and get to really bricks and mortar and how we'll fix our communities and our neighborhoods. thank you for being here and thank you for the great story.
hopefully people will check it out. it is an important story and you're right we need to get past the politics and talk about the cities. and coming up next, i sit down with tamir rice's mom to see what has and hasn't changed since the death of her son nearly two years ago. ♪ ♪ (vo) you can pass down a subaru forester. (dad) she's all yours. (vo) but you get to keep the memories. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. try phillips' fiber good gummies plus energy support. there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. it's a fiber supplement that helps support regularity, and includes b vitamins to help convert food to energy. mmm, these are good! nice work phillips'.
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boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don't plan on slowing down any time soon. stay strong. stay active with boost®. today "am joy" is live from cleveland where the republican national convention is one day away. earlier this week i sat down with the mother of tamir rice, killed here in cleveland in 2014. in the wake of recent police killings in louisiana and most, the mother of the youngest victims of police shootings continues to speak out. miss rice has been critical in the past in the lack of response from one particularly prominent local resident, lebron james, telling news one this year that, quote, it is quite sad that
lebron james hasn't spoken out about my son, unquote. comments she doubled down on during our interview this week. >> absolutely. he needs to speak out more. it was a great win he brought to the city of cleveland that was much-needed. but he needs to speak out and say something. i mean, you are in african-american, you have -- you are african-american and you have two black boys. other athletes need to say something. >> and on wednesday james and other stars did answer the call to say something. dwyane wade and chris paul and anthony opened the espys by addressing the recent activity. james urged the audience to denounce all violence, declaring, we all have to do better. and we'll hear more from samaria rice and that is next.
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in the next few hours, thousands of people are expected to convene here in cleveland for a demonstration of peace and unity. participants will meet on the hope memorial bridge and join hands in silence for 30 minutes. a response to recent shootings of african-american men and the killing of five police officers in dallas. with high-profile cases of timothy russell and mal he's williams when cops shot into their car during a high-speed chase. and one was killed while holding a bb gun in ohio, an open carry state and tamir rice shot while playing with a pellet gun in a cleveland park in 2014. i spoke with tamir's mother and asked her about her family and the gop election coming to her
home town. >> samaria rice, thank you for being here. it is a difficult year and a half for you and your family, tell me first of all how you and your daughter are doing. >> well, we are doing okay. there is always a struggle to deal with a situation like this because we suffer from having anxiety and severe anxiety, and depression and up and down with weight loss and stuff like that. so it is always a struggle. >> and what goes through your mind given what happened with you, with tamir, when you see the protests over philando castile and alton sterling, what goes through your mind. >> i am wondering what is wrong with ohio and cleveland because i live here.
and i don't know what is wrong with the people up here. it seems like, you know they're not awoke or something. >> your son, tamir, was the youngest known victims of police shootings in the country. do you feel that the "black lives matter" movement has accomplished concrete goals. did they achieve something. we did see the district attorney here did lose his re-election and you have a new proximate so do you feel that "black lives matter" has achieved real goals since timir's death. >> i appreciate "black lives matter" for stepping up to do the things they did for tamir. i just appreciate them for stepping up and showing me what unity could look like. >> you have yourself become a public speaker and an activist on this issue and you spoke on
may 4th at kent state at the may 4th commemoration of the massacre and the jackson state shooting in which local and state police opened fire on this predominantly black college. what message, when you speak at these events, what message are you hoping to convey to people. >> definitely unity and that my white privileged americans need to stand up with us, this is affecting all of us. not just sit back and just look at us like they're not part of the problem. just to have some unity and some change across this station. >> we're here on the eve of the republican national convention so politics are on a lot of people's minds. on the democratic side, you sat down with hillary clinton and you were among the mothers who have lost children to both gun violence and in their communities and police-involved
violence. what did you feel you got out of that meeting, if anything? >> i feel that she did hear us and she understood where we were coming from, but we need for you to just understand, we need some action behind that. >> the president of the united states has had to speak numerous times about deaths of young black people and young black men and boys like your son. give him a grade. how is the president doing on making progress on changing this environment in which families like you have to suffer this kind of tragedy? >> president barack obama -- i don't know what you're doing. i don't know how you are able to sleep at night and just sleep and wake up and see that another murder has happened on behalf of the government and nobody is getting any justice at the department of justice. you know what i'm saying. i mean, he did some things. but that is fine. we're talking about lives being
saved. so i don't even know what category to put him in. i'm just very disappointed with him. >> your governor, governor kasich, he has not weighed in tremendously on these issues of police-involved violence but what would you tell the governor if he were here right now. >> that i'm very disappointed in him. he has not addressed not one of these police murders in the state of ohio. he claims to have a civil rights platform and we haven't heard nothing about it. a task force program, we haven't heard nothing about it. i'm just truly disappointed with the public officials in the state of ohio. >> and republicans are coming here to cleveland, to this city where not only your son was killed not far from here, john crawford, the other cases you've talked about, and have you heard and is there outreach for the republican candidate and if you
did get that outreach, what would you want to hear? >> i don't feel a need to endorse any of these presidents -- these candidates at this point. none of them is really talking about what needs it -- what needs to be talked about in america. at this point, i feel sad for america. i do. i really do. but if anybody -- it would probably be hillary because she is a woman and hopefully she can understand being a mom. hopefully donald trump don't be the president -- lord, jesus don't let him be the president, because it is going up in flames, i'm telling you, it will go up in flames before their eyes. >> are you worried about violence at the cleveland convention? >> i heard. i am. i heard people were being allowed to carry guns. this is an open carry state. but are you going to allow them to carry the guns in convention.
that is a recipe for disaster. uh-huh, that is a recipe for disaster. but i won't be a part of nonof the activities or festivities, i won't be around. >> sam aria rice, thank you for your time. >> well, don't go away. while we know who the veep is on the republican side, we can play veep stakes with hillary clinton. stay with us. there is so much more "am joy" at the top of the hour. there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber.
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senator tim kaine, we love cleveland, auditioned for the role of hillary clinton vp pick with the performance of truck attack dog. a review said he nailed most of his lines and talking with his hends and slipping -- hands and slipping effortlessly into spanish. but he is still not ready to commit. clinton held a day of private meetings at her home with a few other potentials. elizabeth warren, john hickenlooper and secretary castro. clinton is considering her options amid heightened attention of terrorism in the wake of the attack in france and whoever she picks will face-off on a debate stage against mike pence. and her decision may be imminent. according to politico, she will announce the vp this friday, possibly in the battleground state of florida. with me joan walsh and nina turner, and the panel has been
assembled. so ladies, it is good to be here. i'm here in your home state. good to be in cleveland. >> can i say that. >> we understand. i'm a knick fan, we're giving homage, we love it. so let's talk about the swing state of ohio. because sherrod brown, when we went out to lorain, ohio, and these were steel workers who couldn't decide and who were in play for both trump and clinton and they unanimously said sherrod brown, and he is not on the list. what do you think of that. >> i think he should be considered. we need a swing state. they haven't won the presidency without ohio and democrats since the 1960s so i think he should be in play. >> it would be my choice if john kasich were not up to replace him. he would be on the short list if it weren't for that. >> let's talk about tim kaine. he got his chance to do his
audition this week. let's look at him talking about mike pence. let's take this for a test drive. we're not going to not do that. but we did see tim kaine go on the stump for hillary clinton and what did you make of his performance. >> he did okay. in terms of energy, secretary clinton needs someone with a different type of energy so i think a senator like cory booker would bring that energy. but he didn't do bad. there is no criticism there. >> here is the theory of the case. now that donald trump has gone safe and picked somebody like pence who is not newt gingrich who wouldn't get out there on the debate stage and now do you think hillary clinton should also go safe. what do you make of that. >> i don't want her to go safe. i feel good about the fundamentals.
i feel like the obama coalition and the base is strong but i don't think you could go safe in a race like this. i don't want to say -- poor tim kaine, everybody said he is boring but there are concerns he is pro-free trade and -- >> and vice president is still a big deal. in orlando, the democrat, i was there and the one that refused to absolutely say the words we are against the tpp in that platform so i have to agree. go big. go big. >> i want to zero in on that, nina. that is an important point. so donald trump who is against free trade, one of the big things of the campaign, he picks a guy for every free trade. >> and the wars. >> and for the ptt. so now you have hillary clinton who is against the ptt. >> and when bernie sanders came out strongly against the tpp. >> and should she drive that home. and warren is still hanging out there because of the terrorism
she is off the table because they need to double down on a military pick. >> i don't think anybody should be off the table. americans are fatigued with war. and we have been over the last seven years. and the president has had to fight on multiple fronts but we haven't had people concentrate on us, we the people in united states of america. so yes, people are concerned about us and what are you going to do at here at home domestically. and i don't think any should be off the table because of war. >> and i think booker is not off the table. >> and chris christie gets to pick his replacement. >> but they learn the hard way. and in 2008, that you put a lot of senators in the cabinet or on the ticket, you have problems back in washington. >> because they've had such a bad year, they won't let him have a good day. so let's talk about the people most in play. with tim kaine and elizabeth warren. and there is a call for the
secretary. and we talked about this on "meet the press" which will air later on today and i think shirley sherrod when i think of him and is there any redeeming quality that would make him toward somebody you would go toward. >> i wouldn't say redeeming but i don't see what he brings necessarily in terms of having a vp pick. but people vote for the person running for president. so he has skilled. all of the people have some set of skills but i believe the secretary needs somebody that complements here in -- any presidential candidate needs somebody, from a swing state, do they bring millennials in and that is a place where they are deficient when it comes to bringing in the millennials. >> i'm not hearing much in the last couple of days about tom perez but i think he is an interesting choice on the civil rights front. >> yes, absolutely. >> he came after joe arpaio and he gets people involved on the
civil rights front and labor. he is tpp because he was in the administration and wasn't able to walk away from it but he is progressive on income inequality and i've seen him out on the stump for her. >> what happened to castro? >> i think he is too inexperiences. i think he looks good on paper. he is great. nothing against him. but when they are looking at standing next to her, is he presidential? >> but yes, i think he is. bring the youth factor in. yes, it is. >> and i think it is about experience. >> he could do -- i mean look at the republicans around, he could do it. he could do it. >> and donald trump so scrambles playing field of what a candidate can look like. hillary clinton can almost go in any direction. and so i do wonder, is there one particular candidate -- elizabeth warren, you could make the case is the x-factor
candidate but is hillary clinton convinced, i'll ask you, is she convinced she needs an x-factor or is she the driving force the way trump sees himself. >> i think they would like to have two driving forces. she is not donald trump. she would be willing to say we need more star power. she is married to one and worked for one in the white house. i think she would be fine with it. i think she's probably looking carefully at the polls and what does she need. >> i have to answer -- lebron james. that he should run for president. >> could you imagine. that would be fabulous. and i have to ask you this, nina, you were part of the sanders' campaign and a surrogate for him and having so many time with the passionate supporters for bernie and which supporters out there or somebody we haven't talked about, which energize the bernie voters the most? >> i think possibly senator chair brown, because he is from ohio and warren, but there are
progressives not pleased before -- for california she came out for the secretary. but i think the clinton campaign and democrats would do well to pay attention to the progressive wing because if they are not excited, they will come out to vote and skip that and they might not come out to vote. and i was at grassroots and there is a concern about who the vp pick will be. >> and pence on the ticket and the potential for energizing women and particularly among white women that republicans enjoy, does that make a further case for warren? >> maybe. i think that pence scares women. i thi i think pence is a terrible candidate for trump trying to draw women. his record on choice -- i don't know that pence makes it more likely that she'll choose warren. i just think she is looking at what does she need. and i don't think she could take for granted that the left wing
side of the base is going to be there for her. >> it is an uncomfortable question and i'll throw it out to you. have the democrats done a poor job of fielding enough of a bench that they have enough choices in a situation where hillary clinton finds herself looking for a running mate. >> not just here but in the future. and enough in terms of diversity. i want -- i support bernie sanders, but i would love to have seen an african-american run for president, a latino run for president, bring it all. one thing about the republican side, at least they had diversity on that side. it might not been the diversity except for my ohio, who did ohio proud. i'm going to put that out there. he did a good job nationally. >> he did. >> but your point is dead on, we do need to fill a bench. you think about donna edwards out there but the quick answer is yes. >> but we're back to 1984 where no black women were being vetted for the female -- that was the female vice president.
we've seen no black women on that list. >> and america, we have to give them a shot out and there is only two, so how do people emerge to those positions they have to be in statewide offices and there are only two african-american women. >> and the diverse problem is a big problem. but in terms of the bench, we have ruled out three or four or five and we could do more people because we don't want the governor to -- >> so there is a deep bench if you are not worried about snatching a senator from a red or a purple state. >> but you're bringing up the point, we have to go beyond those people. >> isn't it also true that whoever becomes the next president is going to be constrained significantly by whoever controls the united states senate. that is so important. so democrats can't afford to gamble with the senate, right. >> that is true. >> so they are going to pick somebody. >> let's throw al franken into the mix. >> and his governor is democrat. >> yes. >> all right.
well we have some breaking news. we're loving this conversation. we're going to frances rivera with breaking news. take it away. hi there. this is frances rivera at msnbc headquarters in new york and british colombia out of baton rouge where there are multiple protests after the police shooting of alton sterling, the 37-year-old african-american man. we also know that from the baton rouge police department that there has been a shooting just now that has involved two officers being shot. the extent of those injuries we still don't know. police are also saying that the suspect in this shooting has been shot. we don't know the extent of the injuries as well. we also know from the police department in baton rouge that this is still an active scene. that they are trying to get civilians out of the way. as we know, baton rouge is a hot-bed of tensions in recent days following the shooting
death of alton sterling by police. a lot of protests there and also the funeral of alton sterling just happening on friday. but again, reports from the baton rouge police department that there are multiple people shot there in baton rouge. at least two police officers have been shot. the extent of the injuries we still don't know and we're following this and seeing if this is at all related or having anything to do with the protests that we've been seeing in recent days in light of the alton sterling shooting. we'll keep you updates on this and follow this here at msnbc headquarters and keep you posted as this develops. i'm frances rivera. i'm going to jim cavanaugh right now. he is here with me. jim, as we're getting this information in, again, we don't know if this shooting has been in any way related, but again certainly a seen of a lot of tensions with the protesters that we've been seeing in the
past weeks. >> that is right, francis. within the last week, the baton rouge police and the louisiana state police and atf broke up a plot to shoot that group of police. they caught some people in the act of burglarizing a gunshot and apprehended one at the scene and he gave a statement that they were trying to get ammunition to kill police officers and they recovered six of the eight guns that were stolen in that burglary and they arrested three of the participants immediately and the other day they were looking for another one. so it is a seething tension after mr. sterling's death. of course there has been a lot of protest for social justice and civil rights but there has been an element that goes to violence, a small element. and the protesters and the police and the community, to support the officers. but it remains to be seen what
happened here. an ambush of baton rouge officers. but the sad thing is it is easy to get the police, because they are in uniform. you call them and they come. so you call the police, the police arrive. so people bent on hurting the police, they have the first advantage. now the police are stronger trained and they are many and they can get that -- beat that back like they did in dallas with their smart tactics and heroism in that shooting. but initially, they are subject to being seen because he know who they are and ambushed because when you call, they come. so let's hope the officers -- there is no fatal injuries here. >> we're following this breaking situation out of baton rouge, louisiana. where there are reports from the police department that multiple people have been shot there in baton rouge. two officers are shot. we understand from them that the suspect has been shot as well. don't know the extent of
injuries of the suspect, of the gunman, or the two other officers shot. but jim, as you're joining me here, talk to me about the situation knowing there are already tensions heightened and protests taking place, i'm sure there are law enforcement -- the heavy presence of law enforcement there already at these rallies. and given that threat, talk about the extra precautions that knowing that in light of the news that the lives of police department officials and officers there in baton rouge are threatened, what other precautions could have taken place? >> you are right. you make a great point, francis. because what happened in baton rouge, is when the police picked up the intelligence they were going to be attacked after the gun shot burglary, they had to change their status on the ground but couldn't tell the public. so then they appear with
s.w.a.t. officers who are armed and have to be able to rappel a firearms ambush and they see that as people efr over -- overstretching the military and then there is the attack of the dallas police officers. and the police are caught in the middle. that is where they leave and they have to accept it. but they are not able to tell people like they were last week, that, look, we have this threat and it is real and they are going to try to kill officers an we're going to have to change our status. so it looks like too much to people. and of course there has been violence in baton rouge on the street just with demonstrators. there has been people crossing the line, normal civil disobedience, i'm not talking about that, but people hurling objects and fighting with officers and so very tense in baton rouge.
and this is just sort of the growing event as it is happening since the sterling death. >> as of yesterday, we know the protests were happening around the baton rouge police headquarters. how difficult does that make it in light of what is happening right now, details very sketchy as we try to gather more information but how difficult is it for their operations in knowing that there are these group of people who are protesting there at the headquarters? >> right. well it draws man power to protect the peaceful demonstration. you have a peaceful demonstration at headquarters that is for civil rights and social justice, the police aren't really afraid of that or the people doing that but that does take their resources. then they have to have the detective divisions an the tactical officers ready to deal with somebody who might shoot them or even shoot them at another location. so it is a big drain. of course, baton rouge is the
state capital and you have the louisiana state police and the help of the fbi and the atf and the u.s. marshals and all of the agencies will help but it is the man power drain and it is tense. it needs to get a chance to calm down, get these officers some medical attention. make an arrest. they said they made an arrest so that is a good first step in the breaking news. >> jim, as we're hearing more before the news and i'm sure in other areas already tense that we've seen in dallas and especially in cleveland, with the beginning of the republican national convention underway and the efforts and the enhancements of security there, how might other departments and other law enforcement groups watch what is going on here and maybe change or alter their plans for security in light of this? >> well, you know, officers have been doing that and certainly ramping up since dallas. that was a seminole event in law enforcement to have a sniper
kill five officers in downtown of one of america's major cities. and so everybody, police commanders, officers around the country, are aware of that. they are training, they are moving and sharing their intelligence and using their state centers. it is a big intelligence challenge, francis, because they have to try to find the one or few who would do this. and speaking of people who just want to demonstrate for a civil rights and social justice, so the killers hide amongst the good-hearted -- they hide amongst the good-hearted and you talk about terrorist and lone wolf pacts, but this is someone who gets a gun and decides i'm going to kill an officer because he wears the blue, i'm going to kill him. so it is a real challenge to pick up and stop that. baton rouge, atf and the state police did a great job on this
gun shop burglary because they stopped an attack and arrested three and maybe they got the fourth one and secured six of the eight guns that were stolen and they stopped the plot. but again, you have to try to stop every plot. so it is a real challenge for officers. >> jim, how might that also hurt as far as you see somebody out there who has intentions of doing harm to law enforcement, to police and saying there was this plot that had been thwarted and stopped but only gives them more fuel in wanting to do harm as we're seeing now with at leaf one officer shot in baton rouge. and the determination that somebody may have in wanting to do harm to police. >> right. it gets down to intelligence and gets down to again the community helping officers, reporting crime and staying somewhat on the edge. when you get that kind of help -- that is why in a democracy, you cannot police without the people behind you. so you have to have the people behind you.
and everybody has to look at it that way. i saw a photograph of a news -- yesterday where a man who was laying in the street in nashville with a sign protesting police and a motorcycle -- a motorcycle cop blocking the traffic to prevent him from being run over. so you see a protest for social justice and civil rights against the police and at the same time the police protecting him from being run over the traffic because he is on the double yellow line of a main street. so this is what democrat looks like in peaceful times. but when you get to people shooting the police, that changes the whole event. so it is -- it is an urgency there in baton rouge it has reached a crisis status with the broken plot and the officers attacked today so they have to get on their game. i think they are. they are doing everything they can. it is hard to stop one lone man
who decides to get a gun and attack officers. >> i want to update on our viewers if you are just joining us, we are getting information on this latest shooting out of baton rouge. and our first images as we are looking here on the left of your screen. we understand from the baton rouge police department there are reports of multiple officers who have been shot. we know that some of the officers have been transported to the hospital. a suspect has been reportedly shot as well. we don't know the except of those injuries. and we understand that the situation is contained. again, this is coming out of the public information office of the baton rouge police department. but as we wait to find out more information and looking at the first image on the scene and some of the reporting hear from nbc news is the scene of the shooting was not far from baton rouge police headquarters where we understand we know in recent days, as late as yesterday, saturday, there were still some very active protesters who were there outside of baton rouge
police headquarters. some of the protests have been put on hold with the death, the funeral of alton sterling and that has sparked the tensions in baton rouge as we've seen the shooting death by police of alton sterling outside of the convenience stor i want to bring in mark claxster from the alliance and we don't have confirmation that this shooting with one officer shot is in relation at all to the protests that we've been seeing in baton rouge, but what initially can you gather? >> the initial response is what a traumatic and devastating impact on law enforcement across the nation. and especially considering the events in dallas a couple of weeks ago and how difficult it makes policing and how difficult it makes -- establishing good, positive relationships with the
community and the challenges are many. and this really exposed -- this is an officer's nightmare, a police officers' nightmare. they operate in extreme, vulnerable operations, going to things that others run away from and being exposed and open and in the course of normal duty and operations and then having the responsibility to continue to do the work of policing, taking reports and assisting those people who need assistance, aiding folks in their desperate time of need. and then you add this increased sense of vulnerability, which it is right now, with policing, it makes the job that much more difficult and hard to maintain a good structure and a good solid foundation for doing public safety and service. >> and when we have these discussions, we have the discussions following the shooting death of alton sterling
and also in minnesota and in dallas as well where we saw the importance and heard the importance of bridging that gap between communities and police departments. but then when you have something like this happen again, where there is a plot that have been stopped as far as people trying to steal weapons there in baton rouge, but then you hear about this with people who are just set on doing harm to police and making that statement known. how can that continue? how can that bridge even begin to be mended? >> it sounds like because the environment is so tenuous and it was tenuous even before this occurred and i think jim made an important point and that is that police and public safety relies on communication and cooperation from the community. and when you have issues and evens that shake the very
foundation of that trust and respect, it really makes it very difficult to operate. but a key component in this investigation, in any investigation, is the cooperation of the community. it is invaluable. so the additional challenge, along with the tactical challenges and the safety challenges to the men and women who serve on the streets as police officers is how do you then bridge those gaps and re-establish or establish those lines of communication in this type of an environment. and that just goes to show we're not talking about individuals who are part of the larger protest movement or calling for reform or just general activists, oftentimes these individuals operate as agent provacares and establishing
communication between the police. >> you're just joining here on msnbc and we're following an investigation into a shooting in baton rouge, where the sheriff's office said this is an active scene. we believe one officer has been shot and possibly two or more. from our reporting we understand the officers have been taken to a nearby hospital and that the suspect, the gunman in this shooting is also shot. though we don't know the extent of the injuries of the shooter or the officers at this point. we know it was an active scene around area described as an area not far from the baton rouge police department headquarters where active protests have been taken place. they were trying to get civilians out of the way and it was an active scene although the suspect has been shot and contained. this is information that is fluid and is just coming into msnbc. but from what we know in recent
days, the tensions there in baton rouge with the protests happening, even as late as yesterday, saturday, outside of police headquarters in light of the alton sterling shooting by police that we've been seeing the protests, those protests died down a little bit on friday as alton sterling was laid to rest. but again a shooting in baton rouge involving at least one police officer who has been shot and transported to the hospital. jim cavanaugh, are you still with us? how do we go about this knowing this is an officer with the baton rouge police department and then you also have baton rouge sheriff's deputies and offices working this as well and how do they go about dealing with this from here on? >> right. our report, francis, is that it is baton rouge police department. there is the sheriff's office and state police and those are
some of the units involved in the area. the first step is who did the shooting and they have shot and apprehended the suspect. that is when the investigation begins, who is he, did he act alone and did he have help from conspirators and they will take his gun and trace his i.d. and they will run that down and who is this guy and why is he acting this way and is he a person who has a mental disability, is he a person with a criminal record seeking revenge, is he a person trying to act on the political climate of the moment? it takes a -- a twisted mind to say i'm going to go out here and just murder two polices or to attempt to murder -- attempt to murder two police officers because i don't like the way things are going in the country. that is a pretty -- >> and jim, if i could jump in as we're getting more images from the scene in baton rouge
where this police-involved shooting has taken place. there is somebody that we have obtained from the cbs affiliate in baton rouge during the time where the shooting actually happened and if we could run that and play it and then we'll talk about it. [ gunfire ] >> as we're watching this for the first time, video from the site of the shooting in baton rouge where clearly can you hear the gunshots. we don't know who took this video. we don't know the circumstances of why they were recorded. but again, it doesn't seem to be -- this is a place that is described as close to police headquarters with a -- where the protests have been going on. but clearly from that video, it doesn't appear to be any kind of protest site. >> right.
it is hard to tell from that quick review of a few times, but it looks like a radio car in the front lower screen and you could hear some shots but you don't quite know. somebody apparently took their camera out to do it. but nevertheless, how far away is it? if it is a close-in attack, a handgun could be used. but if you are across the street, you have to be capable to hit an officer. so more likely if it is a distance shot, if it is a rifle like we saw in dallas where you have a shoulder-fired weapon so you could shoot it across the street. so we don't have the details and we don't know what was used. we do know one suspect was shot and apprehended. so that is -- that is an important factor. there is more video coming in so maybe that will clear up some of the location aspects of it. it looks like under the bridge
there at 12, they have some cars stacked up there and the scene of the shooting, we just don't know. >> and again, as we're getting this information in we don't know if this shooting of at least two officers shot in baton rouge is related to the ongoing tensions there and the protests outside of police headquarters. especially given this location here, jim, and the video that we saw where we heard the gunshots, it took place in this roadway under the overpass. again, just finding out this information, since it is just developing, we don't know the conditions of the officers and now we're -- we seem to be getting conflicting information on whether the shooter is in custody. so we're hoping to confirm that as we find out more. but jim, in talking about police, and just going about in this community in baton rouge or other where we have the tensions, where we have the officers where, yes, the job is
to keep people safe and keep the protest sites peaceful, but now, as we've seen, the consciousness for the officers to keep themself safe as well. >> right. that is exactly right, francis. but i think they will continue across the country to keep demonstrators safe. the police will not change their mission. they will change their tactics a little bit, their intelligence a lot. they are going to change their strategy so they can protect themselves but they won't change policing and protecting america and protecting the demonstrators. none of that will change. so we might see a stronger posture visually somewhere. but the downside of that is people then react to that. it is overmilitaryization. but when you have this, you just can't walk out there with no protection. you just can't walk out there some like -- like some kind of a
move, you have to have some protection. that doesn't mean everybody is in an armored car, but it means there will be heightened alert. you may see s.w.a.t. officers that you normally wouldn't see in other places. but that is not a cause for alarm, it is a cause for the threat to understand the threat that is out there. when s.w.a.t. officers, tactical officers are deployed for the right reasons, then nobody should be worried. >> okay. all right. >> the only problem is if they are deployed for the wrong reason at the wrong time like against a demonstration. but when it is used correctly, it is not a threat to any of us. >> jim, hang with me a little bit. i want to bring in mark claxton from the black law enforcement alliance and as you are watching this video and hearing about the details slowly coming in about two officers shot, and again we don't know the circumstances of the shooting and what happened and what led up to it, but repeatedly we're seeing these officers out there, from what i
brought up with jim as well, the priority is to keep communities safe and protests peaceful. but also to take care of themselves and make sure they are not in harm's way. >> absolutely. and i mean, that the job. that is the essence of the core of law enforcement. that is policing. and so the job, as you indicated, they are not going to shift away from doing what police have sworn to do. they are going to continue to do the job. it just makes it that much more difficult and often times what happens is the reaction, the response from the police will be a slow one because they have to take additional steps -- to have additional safety measures so simple jobs, you have to have official back-up and personnel with you. >> what is the risk of that? you bring up a point. response might be slower and hesitation there and with the tensions that we're seeing and police who may say, yes, in fear of over-stepping bounds, in fear
of going too far, that they might be a little bit more reluctant and then in essence as a result putting themselves in more harm's way. >> well, i don't think the response is slow for that reason. i think the response will naturally be slow because the departments have to take additional steps. so whereas under normal circumstances you may have one patrol car or two police officers, now you try to get as many police officers responding to even the simplest of jobs as possible. so you have additional man power needs which tend to slow down response times and you'll have additional back-up and more resores than you -- resources than you would have on the simpler jobs that they have. and also before that, you are going to increase your intelligence gathering so there are additional debriefing of individuals you come in contact with, people who have been arrested and because you want to gather as much information as possible in order to kind of plot out how you will respond to
simple law enforcement calls. >> mark, i apologize for the interruption but getting word here from the baton rouge mayor that three officers are seriously ill in the words of the baton rouge mayor, and feared dead. so gets new information from this shooting in baton rouge, according to the mayor. here at the nbc news, hearing that the three officers are seriously ill and feared dead. actually that is the mayor talking to reuters. so again as we're hearing this, jim, you hear about these situations and you hear that there is an active shooting, you hear there is an active situation there and the hopes are that maybe somebody was hurt and that it wasn't serious but then you hear news like this, it certainly makes it even more dire as far as the situation. >> well, it is hard, frances, if
the -- this is from the mayor so this is heart-breaking information that the officers have lost their lives. in the instant case, the police department has to deal with who did it. do they have them? there is conflicting evidence of whether the shooter is apprehended. that is the first order of business. consoling familying aies and mes and that will all transpire. but we have to get the climate back down, the hate that you could shoot the thin blue line and it will change something. it will not change anything. peaceful demonstration and demands for social justice and civil rights will have an impact on us is a good thing but when anybody calls for violence and takes up violence, that does not advance america in any way. we should listen to the words of the leaders -- president obama and president bush at the recent memorials, listen to those
words. that is what matters. so -- >> jim, stand by. i apologize for interrupting, we are hearing from the baton rouge mayor. mayor kip holden, are you with us? >> yes, ma'am. >> please update us on the situation, especially on the officers who have been shot. >> yes, ma'am, the latest report, there are three officers dead. and there are several that are wounded and being attended at a local hospital. but right now, the situation is still very fluid. they are trying to get information as to whether or not there was one shooter, two shooters, whether both of the shooters are dead. they are trying to go back and research what is the rational behind this foolishness that is happening here and then getting all of that information together based upon several different scenes. >> mayor, tell us what happened? was this in any way kecked to the protests that we've been seeing outside -- in any way connected to the protests that we've been seeing outside of police headquarters, what do we
know? >> i'm not sure if it is developed from that. but the rhetoric spilled during the course of the funeral and the whole week and people who want to light a fire under people and pour gasoline on it, i have to believe that some of that is related to that because these minds have been overtaken by people who are pushing for things of this magnitude to happen, maybe not of this magnitude, but everything has been a lot of anti-police. but that is only a small percentage. the overwhelming number of people in baton rouge and east baton rouge parish are not buying into it. >> and they are seeing the harm and danger now that three are killed in this shooting and several others wounded. where did this happen? i don't know if you are looking at your screen on msnbc. was it in this area where the shooting happened? where was the shooter and where did they encounter police?
>> i can't tell you the location of everybody because i'm still headed out to the scene. but basically it was an ambush-style scene and we respond and low and behold and there is someone firing on our police officers and we have three dead. and this is an area a mile from the police headquarters. >> so mayor, it wasn't any kind of protest setting. >> no, ma'am. protest, atev. >> and police responded to a call? >> yes, ma'am. >> and essentially in your words, they were ambushed by one, possibly two shooters, is that correct. >> that is correct, ma'am. that is absolutely correct. >> what was the initial call? was it to 911? >> the initial call was shots fired. when an officer hears those two words, the response is immediate and everybody in that area goes to that espn ascene and takes t up position of safety and even in a position they thought was safe today did not turn out to
be safe. >> and mayor, what can you tell us about the shooters? were they in a vehicle? >> no, ma'am, i don't have any of those details yet. >> but when you have your community, baton rouge, who has been seeing -- and, sir, are you with me? >> yes, ma'am. >> you have in the past weeks have been so filled with tension between the community and the police department. we've seen what happened in dallas. and now the reality is that three of your own officers have been killed in this shooting and several others wounded and are being cared for at this moment. talk to me about your concern for your community and for your city in light of this happening and how -- how would you begin to reverse that, reverse those tensions? >> well, first of all, we're going to release this week, the chief andry going to go -- the chief and i are going to go back and do some basic evaluation. but like when the officers were
involved in the two shootings, and i told the chief, and i told him yesterday, chief, if there are reports of a person being armed or shots fired, in this case a person being armed with a weapon, then send a supervisor out at the scene at the same time as these two officers are there so we could have somebody with more supervisor skills to begin to see and call the shots as to what we need to do. so those things will be put in place. mental health packages will be put in place. ministers and community leaders, we have to step down and stop the dividing line and close the gap and that will have to be put in place. but it will take an all-out effort to move this city forward because this is a great city. unfortunately we're having bad times over the last two and a half weeks. >> and mayor, before your city even begins to move things forward, we're talking about at least three funerals you'll now have to have and plan for your very own and we saw this and how
it essentially ripped the city of dallas apart having to bury five of theirs and now in your situation with the recent shooting, you have to bury three of your own officers. >> yes, ma'am. and it is going to be a tough, tough time for all of us. when you see the people who, when they put that badge on and take the oath, to uphold the law and protect the citizens and yet the same people who took that oath, now we have to have funeral services for them, that makes it a tough, tough time for the city and for the parish and all of us. but yet we need to tell people, remove the stumbling blocks that have been put up and start putting up building blocks to make us better. >> as we're getting more information here and it is information that we so hate to report, especially in this given time, that three officers from the baton rouge police department have been killed in this shooting, do you have any other numbers as far as how many are hurt? >> no, ma'am. i don't have those numbers. i've seen numbers ranging from
four to seven. >> four to seven other officers that are hurt. and by that, you mean four to seven who may have been shot by these one or two shooters? >> yes, ma'am. >> all right. anything more you can tell us about the shooters initially? we were getting information that maybe one or two of them have been shot and they are in custody. do you know anything more about that? >> no, ma'am. i'll be getting that information shortly. >> and tell us, are you on the way to the scene and if you are looking at this image on your screen, can you describe it for us on relation to the call of shots fired and the location. >> ma'am, right now, i don't have a tv in front of me. >> okay. i understand you are on your way. >> i'm devoting my full attention to you. >> i appreciate that. and i appreciate that given this time and with what you are dealing with, with the shooting deaths now we know from you of the three police officers that maybe as many as four to seven other officers are hurt. it looks like an entrance to --
pardon me. i apologize. mayor, i'm getting information in my ear and i wanted to repeat that. all right. mayor, i'm going to go ahead and let you go. i appreciate the information that you've provided to us. and again, if we could just be the first of the condolences that you'll receive again with three of your own officers from the baton rouge police department killed from this shooting. thank you so much, sir. >> yes, ma'am. and thank you. bye-bye. >> if you are just following us here on msnbc, want to update you on the situation out of baton rouge, louisiana, where the mayor just spoke with us and confirmed three of the police officers from the baton rouge police department have been killed in the shooting. as many as four or seven other officers hurt in this. we don't know if this shooting has been in any way related to the protesters that we've been
seeing out side of police headquarters there in baton rouge in relation to the alton sterling shooting and that death by police. we know alton sterling was put down to rest -- laid down to rest, his funeral on friday and now we are hearing reports from the mayor in a at least three of the officers have been killed and four others injured. i want to bring in msnbc ari melber, who is at the republican national convention site there in cleveland. and on a day where we're supposed to focus on so much of the news being the republican national convention, yet we're getting word of another deadly police-involved shooting. >> that is right, francis. i think we've been reporting all weekend about the security arrangements here and there is extensive security as there would be for any secret service level event featuring a party nominee but if anything heightens security given the mood of the country and the shootings around the country.
>> yes. >> i wanted to mention, that one of the interviews confirmed that the police and the mayor views this brand-new shooting as a ambush-style attack and legally that is significant because that suggests according to the early information they have, quoting the mayor's office, this was some sort of ambush or deliberate targeting of officers rather than a crime scene where you might have officers simply responding to something and then having a violent altercation. obviously either way, it is a terrible tragedy when you have any loss of life with officers and hear reports of three officers killed. but it is obviously, as well, significant given the context of what we've seen around the country. a significant tension regarding allegations of police brutality or excessive use of force and separately the deliberate targeting of officers of people who swear to protect the community, to serve the community and will have to do that and then are targeting
simply for doing that, for their public service, a matter of great controversy and as many have put it, a matter of great evil, targeting officers. so it is significant as we still get the numbers as we've been keeping an eye on this and reporting on it throughout the morning that we have the officers killed and at least three or four others injured according to authorities and saying this is an ambush-style attack as well. i would note that many may remember alton sterling was the man who was in the police altercation and ultimately shot and found with a handgun on july 5th there in baton rouge and a black man whose killing was responded to by local protests in the community as a matter of great controversy. we know that the department of justice has opened an in inquiry into that police shooting so that in that community is heavy on the hearts and mines of many people and again i would note that is an open investigation. so we don't have, from the
authorities, on that original matter, any great conclusions about what happened and whether that use of force was legally justified and in this shooting unfolding in the last hour, hour plus, we don't know much more than what the thauthorities hav said. we are not reporting in any way a direct link. but authorities believe this was an ambush-style, that is to say a deliberate attack on officers. >> that is tough, considering the tensions we've seen there and even the mayor saying that during the protesters, that there are people out being vocal and really having words of just so much hate against the police department there in light of the shooting death of alton sterling and in light of the protests we've been seeing in front of the police department. but certainly we talked about this in light of -- initially how this all started in louisiana, in minnesota, in dallas. the dialogue that needs to happen. and yet we're seeing increased violence here most recently with
this shooting in baton rouge, with now the killings of three police officers, many as many as seven injured. but then you have this where the mayor said, we have to move this city forward, but yet, the priority is going to be burying these three officers. >> and other things we know about the scene, it was within a mile of police headquarters. it took place, this attack, and these three killings, on a sunday morning obviously. this is not the profile according to the authorities with again, what little information has come out thus far. this is not the profile of a street crime response that turned deadly. this is the profile of something that as the police put it, an ambush. police officers, we can report were backed up by others. 20 others were seen in garb and
vests. if we could put the map back up on camera, we could see, this is according to authorities, the scene where right there, that's in essentially a busy int intersection about a mile from the police station. it's a daytime shooting. we don't know everything, but it has the hallmarks of a disturbing attack style scene rather than as i mnentioned of what you sometimes see in an overnight altercation. officers respond to one situation that escalates or guns are drawn. that is the profile we know given this juncture with three killed and four or more injured. >> when they responded to shots fired, and those officers did respond to this scene, they were deliberately attacked, ambush style in the words of the baton
rouge mayor in this, and the shooter, one or two possibly, were there to make deliberate harm to these officers. we don't have confirmation whether it was one or two or they were in custody. we have original reports they have been shot, but again, we don't have any confirmation on the extent of those injuries. from the mayor who confirmed to us that three of those police officers have been shot and killed, is as many as seven others injured and are being cared for now being rushed to the hospital. i want to bring in jim cavanaugh once again. the atf is getting involved. when you hear how this came about and it didn't appear to be an altercation that got out of hand or part of the protests we are seeing. people who deliberately shot at police to do harm. your take on that especially with the mayor's words of being
an ambush style on these officers. >> the call was shots fired, and when we talked earlearlier, you have the police come. they are going to come to help and save and do their investigation mission. so this call -- this is not unusual in police ambush case that's preceded by a call to 911, and some involved murder of one or two officers start like that. there's a call and the officers respond. it's a copycat from dallas. in addition, the atf and louisiana police it was four people a week ago. conspireing to kill baton rouge officers. they had guns and stole eight guns from a shop and were trying to get ammunition. that is -- the dallas shooter,
frances, was one guy. the conspiracy broken up this week was four people. that's four people. now, today, we don't know how many shooters are involved, but clearly, they laid an ambush. we see the highway blocked and there's a number of officers dead. three is your reporting, and maybe more shot. the shooter or shooters is shooting the responding officers. you're getting multiple cars. not one. as that happens, as you drive up, you know, this guy may shoot or shooter may shoot as they arrive. to be able to shoot seven officers indicates to me that it may be more than a handgun. it may be more like a rifle, and, you know, as they are driving up, responding to the call, he may be shooting them. >> at this point, jim, we don't have any confirmation about the
shooter. whether they have been shot, whether they are in custody. knowing that the atf is involved, how will they yield to get a handle on this? >> it's total teamwork here. it's the baton rouge p.d. has the lead on it. it's their officers killed. they will get tremendous help from the sheriff's department from the atf, fbi and others. there's no shortage of help to get the killers and drag that through how they are connected, where they sourced their weapons and who conspired with them. they have a command post going on in baton rouge already since this transpired. the death of mr. sterling, and dm
demonstrations some of which are violent. they have been spun up and they have to be on a different posture. police across the country, are on alert, but baton rouge and dallas are on a different posture and level. they have to spin it up more to see, are there other like-minded people? we get copycats who think they can act out. it's an end game of death or apprehension. the shooter in dallas is dead. these shooters are likely apprehended. if not, they will be or they are dead. there are people that will make that calculation, but, you know, it's a calculation of a madman regardless of the motivmotive. >> you heard the mayor, saying, this is a far percentage of the hate that has been spewed after
the protest and the hate towards police department and law enforcement overall, and he said it represents a small percentage of people there, and yet so powerful. in this case, three officers killed and for those that are hell bent on doing damage and harming police officers, they might have been inspired or motivated that there was that plot that was thwarted, the four people there they caught trying to steal ammunition and guns and that may be more motivation for somebody to do more harm. >> and rhetoric matters. anyone who calls for violence and says the police should be harmed. anyone who wants to attack the police, that level of discussion fuels madmen who think they have support. that should be condemned. if you are a righteous citizen or someone who wants civil rights, we support that.
you want to march for that, police protect you for that. when they say, we want dead police and dead cops, right-minded citizens will condemn it. that's when we get. we get people listening to that call and acting on it because they think they are getting broader support. it's the same in the terror world. if you don't condemn it, they get stronger and they think we can get support from the broader community. once that support doesn't exist and it's condemned, they don't get any traction. and this should not be put on demonstrato demonstrators. demonstrators want justice, and they want the prosecutors to act, and they want investigations of police shootings. there's nothing wrong with that. that's as american as we can get. >> that's the hard part. when you are trying to
distinguish a difficult part. who want to get the message out and who want to improve relations between law enforcement, and different parts of the communities as well, and doing it peacefully so you have this handful who want to do harm, and frankly, maybe cheering this on and praising the people behind this and injuring at least four. >> you have this element. you will have that element on the web. you have black nationalist hate groups just like you have white hate groups that spur that on the internet. the voices have to be small and condemned. when it breaks out into the stree streets, those voices, it has to be small and condemned. are you violent or promoting violence? that has to be condemned. in the police service, we have loo to be at ourselves and say, is this a bad shoot? is this a bad interaction with the officer? most officers support charging a
police officer who used unjustified force in their ap apprehensi apprehension, and they speak about it. some people shouldn't be police officers, but we have to take its course and we can't murder our over own officers. >> stay with us as we continue to follow this breaking news. i'm franson rivera, and we're in new york following breaking news out of baton rouge, louisiana where the mayor, kip holden tells me three police officers have been killed after an ambush style shooting in baton rouge. there have been shots fired, and when the officers arrived, one or two suspect shooters full on attacked the officers. we understand there are four to seven officers who have been shot and are