tv Meet the Press MSNBC July 18, 2016 1:00am-2:01am PDT
how long he'd been here and if the 911 call that drew officers to his location was the 911 call of a concerned citizen or perhaps something more sinister. some key questions that need to be answered here tonight. meanwhile all three of the law enforcement officials who were killed have been identified by their respective agencies. montrell jackson, matthew gerald with the baton rouge police department, jackson 32 years old, father of in fantastic son matthew 41, had joined the force a year ago. officer brad garafola, been with baton rouge 24 years, he was 45-year-old. three law enforcement officers were also injured in this attack. one in fair condition, treated for nonlife threatening one in
critical condition. the huge law enforcement presence we saw on this street earlier today has scaled back dramatically. we're told officers were able to get surveillance video from neighboring businesses. we don't know what, if anything, it shows. they continue, like i said, chris, to look into the background and possible motives of the gunman in this case. >> how about the other wounded officers. what kind of condition -- is there one in serious or critical condition? how are the others doing? >> that's a great question. two of those three officers, you've got to remember, dealing with two different police agencies. the officer who was critically injured, he was with the east baton rouge sheriff's office. another one of their officers treated for nonlife threatening injuries. that third officer we're told fair condition. so right now a lot of thoughts and a lot of prayers in the community with all three but especially that officer in critical condition, chris. >> thanks for that. sarah geloff down there in baton
rouge. cal perry in new york in the newsroom with more information about the shooter. people are intense, wanting to know, motive, background, life experience, what drove this former marine to do what he did today? >> absolutely. we're starting where investigator are starting, trying to follow the denlg tal footprint. included in youtube videos where the shooter says he has affiliations to no group. >> i'm affiliated with the spirit of justice, nothing else. nothing more, nothing less. you see com boss with cosmos. that's me. i created that. that's what i'm affiliated with. conversations with cosmo. >> what is conversation wall street cosmo? it's a website, domain name back
to kansas city. it has been raided in the past few hours. there's also a twitter page, conversations with cosmo. we're searching for motive here, that's sometimes a difficult thing. a number of posts on the twitter page would lead taos believe that the shooter had something against police. he tweets, since 2000, 149 people died at the hands of police. to date no officer has been charged in any of those deaths. he tweeted this morning at 1:00 a.m. in the morning, quote -- this is very eerie -- just because you wake up every morning doesn't mean you're living. just because you shed your physical body doesn't mean your dead. again, investigators are going to be looking at this entire digital footprint, as you said, trying to find a motive for the shooting. >> let me ask you, how active was he online? was he a guy people knew or only to himself. >> he was incredibly active
online. he had a blog, a blog post, something he called himself a nutritionist, a personal trainer. he had a thing he gave advice to men on books to read, music, movies. to answer the question i think you're really asking, chris, i don't think many people looked at this stuff. okay. he had a blog. new york city it was not heavily followed. it took a great deal of digging to find the blog. he wasn't well followed but extensive, hundreds of thousands of tweets. we're talking hundreds of videos. it's going to take a long time for investigators to churn through all of this. >> i'm not a psychiatrist but he seems to have created a universe around himself he inhabits. we don't know how he went from this virtual person with harmless stuff about the world
to active. moving into baton rouge, going there, perhaps, for this purpose. >> how did he move from being a decorated marine who served in iraq to going to texas, shortly after texas walked the police with violence, he said, with a body camera. how did he go from that to what we saw today. i don't know if there are answers to the question. i can tell you between the dallas shooting and today, we've had two members of the military killed eight police including a number of veterans thchl is a statistic it's hard to wrap your head around, 20 veterans commit suicide every day. that's according to veterans administration. i think we're going to be talking about guns a lot in the coming days but also veterans. >> we'll have an expert talk about that. cal perry, i'm amazed how much you've done. right now let's go to an expert
on a different level malcolm vance, terror analyst. malcolm, what do you see when lou at this? >> what i say is a jumble of ideology, mixed with circumstantial evidence from the web. until a lot of that has been confirm, we're really going to have to withhold judgment. we know this man was a shooter and marine, which might explain accuracy of his fire. use of a ruse is significant. what's more, it hasn't been confirmed yet, you know, if you go into the internet searching, "wall street journal" posted an article he may have been related to an anti-government extremist gro group, which may have been involved in many cases of fraud
and gets people like this who have mental defects to believe they have no obligations to the united states and the united states has no ability to tax or control that. that is dangerous. because as i train law enforcement around the united states, especially s.w.a.t. officers, groups that belong to these sovereign citizen type organizations, they are the first people that will go to guns with you. they are arguably more dangerous than isis on a day-to-day basis in the united states. >> thank you so much, malcolm. not much time tonight but i've learned a lot. u.s. congressman graves represents the area. thank you for joining us tonight. how is the action going over the community there in baton rouge? >> you know, this is something that folks are feeling very, very close to home. we've already seen the faces and names of officers that have been killed today right here in our own backyard.
the first response for many people, this isn't our community. to see outsiders come in is very offensive. trying to broaden the divide already in place as a result of alton sterling shooting rather than trying to brink us together as so many community members are trying to do? >> you wonder always what the role race or ethnicity played in this. once again we see the alleged shooter here, african-american guy, one of the people killed is an african-american guy. it's just so horrible, the whole thing. vile ennis violence. how does this play in terms of the police forces in your area? how do people look at this and what happened a couple weeks ago? >> chris, it's awful. i was out there this morning at the command center area talking to police officers that looked like they could bench press a car and these guys had tears in their eyes.
i talked to other family members of police officers in our community. they were afraid for their husbands and wives to even go out to work in the police force. it's awful and it's really tearing us apart to have the police force concerned like that about their safety and their security. these are the people, look, they are underpaid. these people are putting their lives on the line on a daily basis and have signed up to be the brave, courageous folks running toward gunfire while many others are running away from it. it's just wrong. first of all, need to prevent these outside folks from coming in and really turning up the intensity of these debates and let the community come together. we've had very constructive dialogues crossing all different types of folks focusing on the road forward. >> i know you're a republican but you'll agree with this, an attack on a police officer is an
attack on all of us. >> this was absolutely an attack on our community and designed to proliferate hatred. we can't let the gunman have what he wants. we need to define the narrative, bridge the the gap and bring people together in this case absolutely support law enforcement community, prevent them from having more violence. >> you sound linebacker a good guy. thank you for coming on on this night of tragedy. we'll continue to track this throughout baton rouge, of course. when we come back, donald trump and mike pence give their first television interview together as the republican ticket. trump and pence on the eve of the republican convention. our coverage continues after this.
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eight years. people in america's cities, their lives are much worse off. obama promised things would be better but they are not. jobless rates are higher. the unrest is more intense. the distrust of law enforcement is more acute than ever. it's probably because things start at the top. >> welcome back to this special. "hardball" the site of the national convention tomorrow. that was paul manafort speaking with me earlier about why president obama's policies are to blame for recent unrest in america's cities. you can expect to hear more this week after the convention kicks off tomorrow. anyway, new nbc "wall street journal" poll out today shows hillary clinton holding onto five-point lead over trump as he prepares for the party's nomination. 46 for clinton, 41 for trump. why has the republican national committee announced theme is making america safe again, which includes national security here
at home and foreign policy. anyway, throughout his campaign, donald trump has slammed hillary clinton for her vote to authorize iraq war. tonight on "60 minutes" he seemed to have a hard time explaining why he gives mike pence an attack on that vote even though he keeps attacking clinton for doing the same vote. let's watch. >> that was a war -- by the way, that was a war we should have been in, iraq didn't -- >> your running mate voted for it. >> i don't care. >> what do you mean you don't care he voted. >> it's a long time ago. he voted that way. they were misled information. i was against the war in iraq from the beginning. >> you used that as an example of her bad judgment. >> i was one of the few that was right on iraq. >> what about your running mate. >> he's entitled to make a mistake once in a while. >> she's not. >> she's not. >> msnbc an lis, michael steele
chair of rnc, national reporter for "washington post" and from mother jones. michael, i would defend trump on this ground, it would be hard to find a republican that didn't vote for the war but how does he bash hillary. >> the counter art is hillary voted the same way at the same time. i think what they need to do. this is one of those moments you roll out the candidate, go through the process, first interview and realize, oh, we haven't really talked this through yet. there's going to be a lot of that in the next few days and weeks and there needs to be. you have, again, someone like trump who has a very different position on a lot of these issues outside of where a lot of republicans have been and the war is one of the first ones. >> he had three doors to open. one newt, the other marked chris christie. all three of these guys for the iraq war, because the republican party was for the iraq war
because it was fought under command are in chief george w. bush. >> all hawks. >> not putting mike pence as commander in chief. >> he's not putting out pence as someone to win hawks. >> it's about judgment. if you attack hillary clinton for judgment you have to hold mike pence to the same standard. when it comes to positions on the war, he said he was against it, the only place we have him on record talking about this, he's for the invasion. >> that's his point of view. >> that was his point of view after the war. i found it interesting yesterday when he announced pence, he had one sentence where he was attacking free trade agreements. he said stupid people -- his words, stupid people have given us nafta and cafta. mike pence is a great guy. he didn't point out mike pence was a champion of that. >> revised muslim -- actually did not revie it last night in this "60 minutes" saying it will apply to people from certain
territories. he said this before. the fact is trump revised this from being against countries to against muslim people generally from the countries they come from. >> talked to house people. they can't believe pence is going behind the muslim ban. >> he supports it. >> pence's values, doesn't click. the thing about pence, is he a george w. bush republican or not? on foreign policy, a hawk, supported the war. a little more complicated on economics, against no job left behind domestic policy, against bank bailouts. if you're clinton you're running this guy as a hawk. >> isn't the right question as vice presidential candidate can you support your party as president. your job is to get in line, it's not trup's job to get in line with mike pence. >> that's the key part, which is why when you go back to the opening question about the war, at the end of the day it doesn't matter where mike pence was, it matters where donald trump is.
mike pence is not running for president, he's running for vice president. hillary clinton is running for president. that's going to be the dynamic of the argument trump is going to make going forward. >> he's a talk radio host. pence, this is not someone who is going to have a complicated, rough time. >> he won't. >> let's get to something david and i talk about ideology all the time, to come out and say as paul manafort did with me tonight, to explain police shootings, this heat between a lot of people, african-americans and other people, angry cops right now. his explanation is not soc sociologic o. >> it falls into trump's trit east coast everything stinks under obama. >> bernie said this stuff. >> he said things are worse under obama. the unemployment rate, which he
referenced, is half of what it was when obama came into office. >> why is paul manafort arguing what used to be a left wing argument everything is economics. >> trump's critique things are really, really lousy now and things are responsible for it. >> david, you have to understand people feel this way. it not like they are making this up. this the feedback, the the vibe from people across the country. he's parroting back in a public square in a big way, that sentiment, feeling that's out out street. >> wait a minute. are you saying people in the republican world, left, center, right, all the way right, are saying to trump and his people, you know why we're having such anger in this country, wy we're having this fight is because of jobs being hollowed out, economics. >> economics is the underlying argument. it is the animating argument for a lot of blue-collar workers out there. i'm just saying it's all part of
a growing narrative that ties -- >> talk about economics. lou how paul manafort communicates the message and trump is calling himself law and order candidate. this isn't just economic argument, i think the campaign and art have different tunes. >> they want manafort. >> manafort talking money and he's talking law and order. >> manafort is more rational and trump is more emotional. he's trying to get blue-collar voters and what they feel. his facts are wrong but he's trying to reflect what they feel. >> this is an interesting period of judgment, manafort, mike pence and donald trump all have to agree, simultaneous equation hard to solve. michael steele, thank you, robert costa, the best young reporter there is. david cornyn, the best -- >> old reporter. >> older than robert. political reaction to what happened in baton rouge, political reaction, president obama calling for lower of
police across the country confront every single day. we as a nation have to be loud and clear that nothing justifies violence against law enforcement. attacks on police are an attack on all of us. >> welcome back. that was president obama, of course, reacting to the events in baton rouge earlier today. hillary clinton released a statement saying, there is no justification for vile en, for hate, attacks on men and women who put their lives on the line every day in service of their families an communities. donald trump took on the president and his response tweeting, "president obama just had a news conference but he doesn't have a clue. our country is a divided crime scene and it will only get worse." that's pretty rough. joining us by phone is mayor kip holden of baton rouge himself. mayor, thank you for joining us. we only have a couple of minutes. how is your city doing. >> we're hanging in, still situation is very fluid in terms of what's going on.
we are having to deal with officers transitioning from one situation to another situation but they are holding up well. now we are trying to make sure that the families of these officers who are killed are taken care of and that we're standing by them but at the same time let our city know we're going to move forward, not going to let anybody hold us back. we've made too much progress. >> this is another one of these horrific situations and you wonder what race or ethnicity had to do with it. we don't know yet. we don't know the mind of this guy. again, two white officers and one african-american officer both killed today. >> it's very, very sad story. you know, when you are going into a hospital room, for example, of one of the officer's family and you see the five-year-old child saying, basically, i know my daddy is not dead, i know he's going to come back home tonight, and then the mom saying, i am left raising four kids, that is a call to us to say we must
comfort these families and comfort them and let them know they are not in this alone. we are going to stand by them. we can't bring their father back but his efforts he put forward for us and his safety are not going to be in vein. >> i hope you're doing what the president said today, an attack on a police officer is all of us. >> we have to come together. this is going to be one nation under got, for all. >> how are you? talking to people in the 'burbs out here. how is that in the context working out between the president who has called for calm and moderate voices today and donald trump who struck back with pretty strong language. >> first of all, i went to counties predictive of who is going to win in ohio which determines everything. out in those ex-urban counties,
things where the dollar store isn't doing that great, it is an economic argument. paul manafort is right. mike pence is going to get those voters, evangelicals as well. the question isn't that, after baton rouge, nice, france, all the chaos and murder in the world, can donald trump be a reassuring figure and not just a divisive one. his inclination on twitter, again today in response to the president, and by the way, i think president obama and donald trump have a very personally antagonistic long distance relationship. they get under each other's skin very easily. donald trump goes on twitter and says this is a divided crime scene. the president an hour earlier -- >> the country is a crime scene. >> the country is a crime scene. an hour earlier the president came out and said we need to open our hearts and lower our voices. if donald trump is going to win primarily with white voters, he can't just win with those counties i went to in the exurbs
around cleveland. he's got to get corporate republicans, mitt romney republicans, suburban women. he's got to get republican leaning men afraid of donald trump. so the temptation he has on twitter is different from what i think he has to do in the hall. >> how does he avoid being goldwater and become reagan. >> that's the question. i don't know if he can or will. he's a combative guy. he wants to make the accusation. he thinks he can divide and conquer the country essentially. barack obama incubat think bait today. he said calm down. >> thursday night on the podium he'll be given a speech, will it be controlled, written ahead of time, written by manafort, will his kids look at it, will they say you can't say that. >> i've covered trump a while, the key to donald trump is make
it his idea, not your idea as an aide. i think he's got to decide if he's capable of that, because i think that's the only way he can win. i don't think he can win strictly on division. i don't think he can strictly win on the economic or racial or fear arguments and so forth. he can get close but the country is changing very rapidly. >> he can't get 70% of the 0% white vote. >> forget african-american vote, forget much of the hispanic vote. if he's going to win it with white people, he's got to win it with white people he doesn't currently have. >> that includes women from the suburbs, corporate men, people who wanted mitt romney and didn't get him and so forth will he's got everything else with pence, et cetera. >> was pence smart. >> given the available options, absolutely. out in these counties where they are predominantly white, they are predictive of ohio, that was
helpful. women, who are pro-life in those rural counties and exurban counties were solidified by trump. this convention more than trump realizes is about whether trump can be a reassuring figure. it sounds like a preposterous notion but if it remains so it will be hard to win. >> i've been trying to explain to rachel and brian, you see something different, everybody loves coming here. reporters having a large time. people in the crowd you bump into want selfies or pick, everybody in a great mood but there are people coming here for trouble. there are people who want to shut this thing down. how does trump respond when he sees pictures on the street play on national television all day thursday or sooner of people causing trouble. how will he react to that? is he going to stay calm? >> i think he's going to have
to. i think first out on the streets of cleveland today, after baton rouge especially from this morning, people were clapping an cheering for the police as they walked around. yesterday you had the thought, there are too many police around here. but today the mood was total le different on the streets. >> they want them there. >> they want them there. they were cheering for them and i think that's happening all around the country. that doesn't mean donald trump should take that psychological upper hand and grind it into the opposition. he's got to somehow figure out how to be both who he is and magnanimous at the same time. to me if he can't pull that off here where he's speaking to the whole country. he's no longer speaking to his own people. >> it would be nice if he would speak to people who not necessarily organized black lives matter but the sentiments, say to the mothers worried about their kids, african-american kids, it's it, i know why you're afraid. can he do that? >> i don't know.
we're following the three police officers killed in baton rouge. thanks again, we always have you on but what times we do have you on. it's horrible. have you been able to figure out the crime itself that led to the death of the three officers? >> well, everything is spilling out online about the gunman, chris. it looks like no underlying crime. it doesn't appear we have uncovered that, heard any of that in the news. >> what led to the incident? how did it begin and play out? >> i'm sorry. that's what i was leading up to. in other words, there wasn't any other crime other than the
shooting of the officers. so it looks like he had the gun, the mask and all dressed in black maybe shooting the gun in the air or just spotted with the gun when the officers were called. no robbery preceding, no robbery or murder or carjacking preceding it. the crime seems to be the one the officers were in and the carefully aimed shots to kill them. >> usually people go for a big hit, if you will, something that will be international, an airport, lots of people involved, lots of death and horror and that sort of meets whatever tragic purpose they have at the end of their life and they are suicidal. this seemed to be pretty small in that regard. >> well, i agree with you but small but big in his mind. small in the theater of major mass murder but big in his mind. it's on his birthday, so he's
obviously going out. he knows he's going to shoot it out with the police. has he a twisted hate belief in the police, maybe broader than that but certainly wants to kill the police. he did. he targeted him, shot him, slowly shot him. we heard the shots on the video. big in his little loser mind and big impact for the baton rouge police and east baton rouge parish sheriff's department and sad day for american law enforcement. just another loser with a heart full of hate. so there are these hate groups, these certain black separatist groups he might have identified with, doesn't mean he's a member of. if it pans out that way. or he's just an anti-government-type guy or just a madman. we don't have all the facts but certainly the police are looking there. >> what is the scuttlebutt right now at the police station, watercooler, coffee shop, when they get together back at the station house between shifts, what do you think the
conversation is in the patrol cars, squad cars, about being a police officer in 2016? >> i think they know -- police officers know because of the intelligence we put out all the time special groups that want to shoot them, black separatist groups, white nationalist, klans, despite your run-of-the-mill criminals that will should you because of their greed. they know about these groups, a small percentage of the population. they see that all the time. it's on their minds, they are on edge. they are going to change this posture in the short sense in the immediate timeframe but they are doing to be there, doing policing, and you know, democracy is going to go on. that's the great thing about american policing. they are tough, strong, they band together and they get through this. >> god bless them. good for them. good for their guts. good for having guts. when we come back, much more
>> welcome back to "hardball." conventions by very nature of the word are intended to bring people together. sometimes the most unforgettable words spoken at the convention have had the opposite effect. barry goldwater needed to broaden appeal to moderate republicans and independents but he chose defiance instead. >> i would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. and let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. >> that ripped the scab off. in 1998 george herbert walker bush faced the challenge of convincing reagan faithful he possessed the patriotic spirit of the man he hoped to succeed. here is how he truly rose to the occasion. >> i may be -- may not be the
most eloquent but i learned early on that eloquence won't draw oil from the ground. i may sometimes be a little awkward but there's nothing self-conscious in my love of country. i'm a quiet man but -- [ applause ] >> i'm a quiet man but i hear the quiet people others don't. the ones who raise the family, pay the taxes, meet the mortgage. i hear them and i am moved. their concerns are mine. >> that worked. i can tell you. i was in the hall that night. sometimes the will to win is overtaken by sheer ideological fervor. in a speech that hurt bush's chance for re-election in 1992, patrick j. buchanan stuck it to
liberals shortly after their convention in new york. >> my friends, my friends, like many of you, like many of you last month, i watched that giant masquerading ball up at madison square garden where 20,000 liberals and radicals came dressed up as moderates and centrist in the greatest single exhibition of cross-dressing in american political history. we must take back our cities and take back our culture and take back our country. >> wow. i'm now joined by national political reporter for polit co-national reporter for "new york times" and political analyst and former adviser to
rand paul. there was good and bad in terms of uniting the country and winning an election. how does trump learn from those experiences? >> he needs to be more george h.w. bush than pat buchanan. quite frankly he doesn't have it in him. wow, just watching h.w. bush there, you think, wow, what if we had a leader more about country than himself. >> suppose peggy noonan would write for him like she did h.w. >> he does need a good speechwriter, but i think it's about the man himself. >> you've decided and it's over. this is your commentary, he's no good. >> i would like to see him grow and change. i think that is a little bit stupid to expect that. >> you think he's finished. >> i don't think he's finished. i think american public might vote him into office against a
weak and a person alet of american people think should be in jail. >> my thought, he has to do what george h.w. bush does and did. >> humility. >> i don't think donald trump's brand is that. but i think what he has to do is kind of show he can be himself while also in some way be presidential. he has to show he can be true to the people who brought him here. he didn't get here by being george w. bush. >> he has the nerve to do something nobody has done before, go out there on the podium thursday night and speak impromptu, do what he does, show business thing, stream of consciousness. >> i think he's going to have notes if not a teleprompter. i don't think he's going to wing it. >> let's go back to the history here. what have you learned when you want to show your guts and say screw you and you lose.
>> you look at two people reminiscent of trump, they didn't win. buchanan, but goldwater lost historically by huge margins. >> i don't think anybody can figure out gold water except to remember he was gold water. he didn't give a damn, he said what he had to say. >> trump may struggle with impulse control but he can read the crowd. he knows he's going to be on tv at this convention. does this room -- what's the reaction he gets in the room. does he feel the juices start to flow, the remarks -- >> a real skeptic. >> 60. >> 60% of the delegates. >> i spoke to a delegate who said donald trump was the 20th choice for nominee. they are people coming here because they support rnc for
republicans. they are here to see donald trump but more than the donald trump show. >> i watched this yesterday, i thought he gave a great speech. he's revving up to give a bigger one. >> mike pence has a lot to add to the ticket. let's see if donald trump let's him have that moment. i think it's going to be very hard for trump to have a number two. >> he does get to give a speech. >> he gets to give a speech but where does it come from there. august, trump following the polls, you think kind to governor pens. >> people weren't talking about pence's speech. >> back to mike pence because he spent most of the time talking about himself. that's the awkwardness. >> watching these keynote speeches, they still have them. the purpose of the keynote speech is to rile up the party base, the people that go to the meetings from the time they are 18 and are republicans for life. they get them gung-ho. he went after obama, who i like, obviously, he went after him in a way to me was very smart
partisanship, went after him about leading from behind, it doesn't work. blurring lines, syria. he went after weakness even top people in the administration would say, yeah, it's a weakness. i think he knows where the bayonet is going to go in and find mush. i think pence is smart on that stuff. >> the fact you're able to watch this person, at least for me, the opposite experience of watching donald trump. after donald trump finished his 30-minute long meandering conversation about all the different things he wanted to accomplish and finally got around to his vice presidential pick owe. >> you know what he was doing. he was using the national television time on all the cable networks to exploit. that's what he was doing. >> of course in some ways talking about his platform. at the same time he has to be focused when he gets up there. i'm here for a reason and here is the reason why i'm here.
>> how is he going to respond to the horror that happened today in baton rouge, trump in his speech. >> the first night of the convention, the theme is make america safe again. it's going to be about law and order. melania is going to speak, i don't know how it will relate to the subject. he's going to be smart, use this moment, whether cynical or not. you hope he doesn't stoke people's fears and exacerbate fears but he is going to talk about that. >> barry goldwater and pat buchanan know know what to do. thank you. that does it for us here in cleveland. we'll have a big update on the situation in baton rouge at the top of this hour coming up. our coverage continues in just a minute.
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you can't believe your eyes crazy new super sizer fibers mascara from easy, breezy beautiful covergirl it's monday, july 18th. right now on "first look," in baton rouge, officials are learning more about the man behind the latest targeted shooting of law enforcement that left three dead and three injured. >> we as a nation have to be loud and clear that nothing justifies violence against law enforcement. >> that as security is beefed up in cleveland where the republican national convention kicks off amid an open carry law that remains in place. plus new details in the investigation into the bastille day attacks. more good news for drivers hitting the road this summer, and much more, as we kick off a busy week ahead. "first look" starts right now. well good morning on this monday. thanks for joining us today, i'm betty nguyen. we are tracking developments out