tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC July 18, 2016 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT
considering the presidency of the united states. no room for small thinking. no room for small results. donald gets things done. >> we are back and according to our math department, the convention was gavelled to a close by reince priebus at 11:41. eastern time. >> unfortunately for the speakers at the end of the roster, it had not been gavelled closed after those by the time michael flynn was done thinking, joanie ernst. the program was not set up to do things till the end.
>> let's go to rudy giuliani's speech, which was the hottest of the night. he departed from his prepared speech several times. let's listen to what he said about hillary clinton and libya. >> it was hillary clinton to advocated for the overthrow of gadhafi and libya. now libya is in chaos. hillary clinton is a caccountabe for this and much more. >> it's highly debatable how much of this she's accountable for the president of the united states made all those decisions about what the policy was going to be but they were urged on by some republicans. let's listen to mike pence in the 2011 hearing by the foreign
affairs committee. >> gadhafi must go. i'm grateful to hear the secretary of state and administration take that position ambiguously. >> that's mike pence speaking right to her. if they want to continue with that line against hillary clinton, mike pence is going to have a bit of a wrestling match in interviews coming in with him. >> put that on top of the iraq war vote. >> senator jeff sessions, let's listen to what he said about what he called the obama/clinton policy on immigration. >> the only solution from obama and hillary clinton is to capitulate to the lawlessness and give amnesty and citizenship to all. >> you'd have to tell that to the 2.6 million that the obama administration has deported. that's a record. the bush administration in eight years deported 2 million people. the obama administration 2.6 million. there are 430,000 currently in
the immigration detention system. that is more than all of the people we have in federal penitentiaries. so the obama administration has been -- and it was their political strategy, actually, to crack down as hard as they could on law enforcement so that they could then come to the congress and say, look, we're being really tough on the enforcement side, now let's work out a legislative package. they were trying to prove their toughness credentials. and then there's a quick fact that we're going to do across abc news and tony sabato jr. >> you weren't a "bold and the beautiful" fan? >> no, apparently that's lacking. he did a speech in which he said
that he's absolutely certain that president obama is muslim. that has been fact checked several times and that of course is not true. >> isn't it also true that you could fact check so many different times in so many different speeches and to be fair both conventions. you're going to have your hands full. >> the giuliani speech, for example, was mostly just rhetoric. there weren't that many things to go in and dig at and say, well, is that true or is that not true. that's been true of most of the speeches, mostly rhetoric. there's not a lot of hard fact to grab on to. >> following up with you on the libya things and mike pence, we are going to see that on a bunch of things, whether it's trade, whether it is libya, whether it is iraq, i mean, whether it's
gonzola curiel. where mike pence is absolutely opposite on things. >> we've seen mike pence finesse the situation on trade already. i think they're going to be able to do that fairly easily. this libya issue was different because tonight was all about, in effect, hillary clinton the criminal, hillary clinton the person who should be in jail according to a lot of the speakers and the audience. and one of the things that they thought she should be in jail for is her culpability, her responsibility in the deaths that occurred in benghazi, in libya. this is central to the most dramatic kinds of prosecution of hillary clinton that were going on in that convention tonight. for mike pence to have had the identical view or possibly even stronger in certain expressions of it at the time about what to do in libya is something that i don't know how to write mike pence's way out of that in an interview. another striking thing about
tonight, it was all about -- this was the veterans' night, all the veterans talking about their service and how important that is but they are standing up there in support of a candidate who does not have a military veteran in his family, who no one in his family has ever considered military service. donald trump thought about it only to the extent we know as to how to avoid military service during the vietnam war. and so that irony was never connected between the candidate they were talking about and the military service they were honoring. >> steve smith, on the pence exposure issue, let's call it, you do have -- you have a nominee here who kind of waves and and already did in the "60 minutes" interview stuff like that with the back of his hand. >> at the end of the day people vote for the ticket, not for the vice presidential candidate.
the issue that mike pence has that's a real legitimate issue and is going to play out as we move into the vice presidential debate is his position with regard to women in the military, women in combat roles. anybody with even a basic level understanding of how the united states military functions understands that the military would be crippled without its women service members across the board, all branches of service. i think it also bears mentioning that on the morning of 9/11, u.s. naval aircraft took to the skies intending to intercept what they thought was an aircraft heading to the white house or heading to the capital and those planes took off without armament. and one of those planes was piloted by a female naval officer. she was prepared to put her plane into the passenger jet to sacrifice her life. >> there were no weapons on board the plane.
she would use her plane -- >> she would use her plane to save the capitol, to save the white house. from the very first moments from the war on terror, from the war that resulted on the attacks of 9/11, women have served v valorously. you have an expectation they'll have a base level understanding of how the actual military functions. >> just my opinion, you should think about working for a campaign because -- >> you just took three pounds off steve. never again. you could just see it flashing out of you. never again. >> so much nicer here. >> we'll keep you. we'll keep you. >> chris matthews is staying up late, high above the quicken loan center. chris? >> that's right, here i am. our live coverage. our live coverage from the
prompter continues after this. i think that's the beginning of our evening. thanks for sticking around. >> sure. >> the comments we're getting is that there's a disconnect between giuliani and the v.p. nominee. the v.p. nominee was for the overthrow of gadhafi, the iraq war and giuliani is saying -- >> i think the fact that you have mike pence, who has opinions and a record of votes from his service in the house and a record of accomplishments from governor and he differs with mr. trump on some issues, i think that's a very good thing. it will lead to us a good decision because you're going to have robust debate. pence will bring some ideas, he will help mr. trump think through issues and so, you know, they'll settle on an approach. >> but i'm trying to find the course that your party is setting here. for example, rudy giuliani gave a great speech.
there's no doubt to me it was great rhetoric. it wasn't hawkish, that was sort of attitudinal, like screw our enemies and we're going to say so. but tom cotton, we talked about his warrior service, his father's warrior service for the country and his case for both afghanistan and iraq, hawkishness, these wars were good wars. we were smart to stick it out in vietnam through the early 70s. is the hawkish argument your party's belief? >> is it? >> i think what you're doing, chris, is kind of missing the point. the point is we have a big tent party and, yes, we have defense hawks and -- >> is your party hawkish or is hillary more hawk sniish? >> no, our party is hawkish, our party is for the military -- >> donald trump said it was
ludicrous to go to iraq, we should never have overthrown gadhafi. he's running completely against the tenor of tonight's speeches. >> no, i don't think he is. national security a top issue. and what people see is how terribly we came out of iraq. >> okay, if you support the iraq war, even though it was a good idea, if you thought the vietnam escalation was a good idea, which party should you vote for? >> you should vote for the republican party. >> if you believe all those things. >> chris, i'm going to have you a voting republican before this is over with because look at this. >> suppose you think toppling gadhafi was on -- >> suppose you think isis is a really, really bad organization. >> i knew you were going to change the subject. >> i told you you're going to be voting republican. >> no, you're changing the subject. >> here's my problem because a lot of people like trump because he's changing the course of our foreign policy.
he's saying we've gotten stuck in the mud in the middle east too often, we should pull back. >> what trump is saying is let's be wise, let's bring together our military leaders. what happened with the downfall of iraq? obama wasn't listening to our commanders in the field. he said afghanistan is the good war. >> yes. >> do you agree with that? these the war he wanted to go fight. >> well, we did fight it. >> and then he wanted to put more into afghanistan. then he came back and said we're not going to put any more troops in iraq because we've got 1,600 boots on the ground and we're going to add some more boots ontd the ground and, by the way, we've got this issue in syria. what people see is this -- you have seen an imploks of foreign policy through the direction of hillary clinton and barack obama. national security is the top issue. and what people are saying is,
that we get in here and we accepted a message to isis that we're going to defeat you that, we tell these terrorist organizations we are not going to put up with this -- >> was regime change a good idea? should we go into countries and knock off their leaders and chase their governments? >> what you need to do is have a -- >> should we do that? >> chris, what you have to do is have your foreign policy personnel, your state department, your ambassadors, you have to have your military personnel and they have to have a foreign policy for a fact. and they have to follow through with that. we have allies and our allies, we are there to defend them and to work with them. now to just blanket say do we do this, is that the right thing to do? you know, people don't want that. i mean, what they want is a thoughtful debate about how we move forward on this. >> you were in congress. do you think it was smart to
knock off gadhafi? >> i think that there are questions about whether it was you. look at what has happened in the aftermath and quite frankly, i'm going to tell you, i'm not the expert. >> you think we were right to go to iraq? >> i think with the information we had at that time, i think we probably made the right decision. >> what information? >> the information there dealing what was happening on the ground in iraq. >> nobody told our administration they had nuclear weapons. why did we say there were nuclear weapons. ? >> there was evidence -- let me say there was information. >>. >> there's your version of that and then there were other reports that there was information that there were weapons that were there. so did they think that they were right to go in with the information that was dpn? even hillary clinton has said that. >> i'm sure but i'm disagreeing.
>> it was available to -- >> if you want a hawk, maybe hillary is your candidate. >> she says that you were right to go in at that point in time. >> i think we have confusion here about which is the hawkish party and i'm afraid both are beginning to look like hawkish parties, with the exception of donald trump who doesn't actually sound like a hawk but your party does. >> well, i think that the thing to do is to be wise, to be juice dishes and make certain we keep peace through strength. >> that's a safe and good argument. thanks for sticking that out with us. >> chris matthews, thank you. congresswoman, thank you. we're going to take another break. when we come back, the first hints, the first whiff of a problem found in some of what melania trump had to say to this convention tonight.
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we've had a remarkable turn of events. >> something has happened, you might say. >> the start of on social media, people on twitter first started circulating eyebrow raising claims about melania trump's speech this evening. that led us because it started to pick up a lot of speed oe online, it led to us pick up the archival material and it appears there are some very tight parallels between melania's people tonight and michelle obama's speech in a similar position in the 2008 nominating convention for her husband, barack obama. >> we have put together just the first rudimentary video comparisons from tonight to '08, as with a lot of things on the appropriately named social media, this started with one person, kind of the butterfly
effect by the time most persons wake up tomorrow morning, this will likely be a thing. here now the most rudimentary edit of the passages being highlighted. >> and barack obama and i were raised with so many of the same values, like you work hard for what you want in life, that your word is your bond, that you do what you say you're going to do, that you treat people with dignity and respect. >> from a young age my parents impressed on me the values that you work hard for what you want in life, that your word is your bond and you do what you say and keep your promise, that you treat people with respect. >> because we want our children and all children in this nation to know that the only limit to the height of your achievement is the reach of your dreams and your willingness to work hard
for them. >> because we want our children in this nation to know that the only limit to your achievements is the strength of your dreams and your willingness to work for them. >> we are joined here by two political professionals, who have both seen of light and entered the world of television journalism, and let's talk about this. >> there is no university in america that would not rule this as plagiarism. there's no question that the speech writers for melania trump, melania trump could not possibly have known this was plagiarism, but the speech writers certainly did. in the second passage that we played there sequentially, 22 words out of 26 words that melanmela melania trump spoke, that's an
overwhelming, incontrovertible case. 29 word were identical with about six words slightly changed. there's just no question the speech writers who worked on this lifted it directly from michelle obama's speech the question now becomes what will the trump campaign reaction be? if donald trump is true to form, he will absolutely deny that this is plagiarism, he will not fire those speech writers or we won't be able to in any way track that they've been fired. i doubt very much they will admit to this but there's no question that that's what this is. this is pure plagiarism. >> really the highlight of tonight's speech. this turns this into a ka as it fee. this is a plagiarized speech,
what an outrageous disservice to melania trump to the speech writers on that campaign. nicole wallace talked that the trump campaign is not configured like a normal political campaign. we know tonight, as you watch the incongruity between the speeches, the lack of a theme, the lack of a day starting off with the targeting and attacking the ohio governor, right through the end of the program. hamilton is a great production, no one leaves it early. tonight, and this is a show, a lot of people left it early. this is not a good first night and now you have brought scandal to a prospective first lady in the form of her speech. just an outrageous disservice to her. >> chris matthews has been
listening to all this in cleveland. chris? >> it's devastating. here's my question and it's open to everyone. there was a speech writer, someone did a draft with all these, as lawrence pointed out perfectly, off theiobviously lil the same words, on the same sequence, following the same sequence with the same words. the speech writer who drafted this knew where he or she got it, they knew they got it from michelle obama's speech in the same circumstance and they delivered it to their boss, to their client. why would they do that? why would they do it on purpose? because this is purposeful. i know it sounds spooky to say sabotage but this was so sabotage. and they did and they got it into the news cycle. we're not even into the morning
editions yet. this is deadly. it's so clear cut that the person who did this did this on purpose. that's what's so hard to figure out, guys. >> and so obviously a place to lift it from. the very -- >> lift it from some other country, some other decade. >> the speeches to be compared to were speeches of this kind. that you have to wonder was this a deliberate act? could this possibly have been a deliberate act of sabotage? when you look at major rim, you always find a pathology, you find someone in an absolutely desperate corner and at some level knows they're going to be caught and cannot stop themselves from making this reach. and you look at it and you watch
the majplagiarism there, when y leave 26 of 29 words -- >> oh, okay, there's the change. this is bad. this is really bad. >> you've been the most recent of anyone on the air right now in the trenches of a campaign. remind our viewers the life of a speech writer, the finite world of available speech writers. these are by definition freelancers, unless it's a hugely big moving finance campaign or the white house or a senate office where they can be carried on payroll, correct? >> yeah. look, on both sides there are only a handful in both parties generationally of world class speech writers.
the mike gersonons, the chris matthewss. >> peggy noonon! >> it's an incredibly small gro don't fall top mind into that category. i do think one of the things that lawrence pointed out, i think that there is zero chance and i mean 0.0 that melania trump lifted it. that this is the worked of a campaign speech writer and it's outrage out. and what a disservice to a candidate, to a spouse of a candidate on the biggest night. >> i know on the democratic side, they have a boiler room at
the tension like tonight we saw 0 speeches up on that stage and 18 of them would have been written by the boiler room at the democratic convention. a potential first ladies speech wouldn't be written that way, right? >> it would not be written in the boiler room. it would be by someone we just mentioned or one of the elite speech writers. you're going to try to get the very, very person you can get for the candidate speech, for the vice presidential nominee speech and certainly for the spouses speech. >> so my question on this, then, is doesn't paul manafort bear responsibility for this in some way then? obviously we don't believe that melania trump wrote this herself and committed the plagiarism herself, she said that she wrote the paul manafort --
>> i don't hold paul manafort responsible. nobody is going to plagiarize the speech directly, unambiguously -- >> but who pays for it? >> but now they have to figure out what happened. they cannot put melania trump out doing what -- it is obviously plagiarized. she is a victim here, not a perpetrator. first and they better do that tomorrow morning. >> the other striking thing
about this speech was it did not include a personal anecdote, a personal at-home just us, this is a story only i can tell. rudy giuliani tried to tell a story only he could tell but melania's speech writers never tried that. so that's the other oddity in this speech. why no personal story was told in there. but, no, you could never -- no one else working at the campaign could ever have imagined that a speech writer would plagiarize like this. this is -- everybody was victimized by this, manafort was victimized, they all were. the question becomes as a potential president, what does donald trump do about this? does he have the ability to look
at those 22 out of 26 words and make a logical conclusion about what happened to his wife, what that speech writer did to his wife and what is he going to do about that? >> halle success is standing by to talk to us as part of our team covering the trump clam pain. >> noum one, this is. >> they can stop digging on this by the morning shows, to use steve's point. what do you think is going to end up being the story here? >> listen, i think there's three points to make here, what rachel said, that melania saying she read through it once but made it
with but there is question of accountability for words that were spoken. people were buzzing about her speech afterwards, the delegates loved it, a couple of congress members thought she hit it out of the the people were talking about this, the similarity between michelle obama's speech and that was as they were leaving the site. we have reached out for comment, haven't heard anything yet but i can predict that part of the response will probably be if trump's past history is any pattern, frankly blaming the media for picking up on what is a minor moment in what was in their view, a great fight.
i talked with top aide palm manafort. he the question is how is the trump campaign going to deal with this, do a study? we have seen them deny reality with confronted with it as lawrence was pointing out earlier in the past pu about and this speech was very well received the first time it was given by michele obama a. >> let me just say there's no reason to cover for the person that did this. we should find out tonight, lawrence and i worked in this.
maybe tonight we'll find out where donald trump really stands on capitol hill. this is an amazing assault on his family. all he has to do is say i didn't do it, melania didn't do it. one molt he'll show his toughness. if reagan can fire the air traffic controllers. >> he did nothing wrong. this happened in an inauguration address or something like that, he'd look like an idio. and so he ought to act and quickly before dawn, get rid of the person. >> and donald trump is not only the person who could react, the speech writer should be coming
forward right now. the speech writer should be publicly resigning. >> go ahead, halle, come out. >> paul: i -- >> halle, i was going to say the one thing i think we should be both cautious about and pay a lot of attention to is how much we learn about how the trump campaign operates through this line of ability that chris matthews has been talking about. it's very weird to cover a campaign had we all think we know what the masthead is going to being like there. who knows who wrote this speech or what relationship they have
to reports for. >> ultimately paul mann for the is in charge of it. i would expect his head to be on the gee a tooen. >> if he can't impose accountability here, how does he get the v an under control? part of trump's brand is i'm going to bring the best thing to government, i'm going to have the best people. that's an important point. i think also strength has been a hallmark of the campaign. one of the low momts was when he backed of in a debate with
donald trump when he was critical of his wife. a lot of us worked for george w. bush thought he would have reacted the same way. when the kennedy family was so involved with bobby kennedy running the campaign, sargent shriver a key adviser to it. so i think this is an assault on the trump family, by a speech writer on the staff. it's a key moment for his campaign. >> i mean, think about what this has done to melania trump, the next time she approaches a microphone with a prepared speech. this is such an act of cruelty to her and, again, i say -- i
see the responsibility as being entirely, entirely on the speech writer to come forward now, to resign, to apologize. i look at these things from a staff perspective, having served on a staff myself and this is 100% the pault of one person at least involved in writing that speech and that -- >> i would just say previous major speeches delivered by the candidate himself were, we found out, written by his son-in-law. we know it's a speech writer, we don't think it's melania trump. but who the speech writer may have been, we don't know. >> and we have highlighted and put together a basic rudimentary edit. this is four chunks in all, two
from each. and here it is. >> and barack and i were raised with so many of the same values, like you work hard for what you want in rife, that your word is your bond, that you say you're going to do what you're going to do, that you treat people with dignity and respect. >> from a young age my parents impressed on me the values that you work hard for what you want in life. that your word is your bond that, do you what you say and keep your promise, that you treat people with respect. >> because we want our children and all children in this nation to know that the only limit to the height of your achievements is the reach of your dreams and your willingness to work hard for them. >> because we want our children in this nation to know that the only limit to your achievements is the strength of your dreams
and your willingness to worked for them. >> chris matthews is at the venue in cleveland with, by my account, two journalists and a former head of the republican party. >> the former head is to my right, who will take the heat on this one. just kidding. let me go to robert and who howard. first of all, robert, you have some reporting on this. >> so trump writers just left the arena. i'm trying to figure out who wrote it, is there going to be disciplinary action? right now in trump's circle, there's a lot of anger towards the press. >> for this? >> for the reaction. >> what did they expect? >> i just.
>> phil: they find the way it has been characterized is absurd. >> chris, as i was coming back into the hall underneath the bowl here, i passed paul manafort on his way out and he looked like a happy man. >> it hadn't gotten to him. >> this was about an hour ago so it hadn't gotten to him at that point. just about the time he was leaving, twitter was beginning to blow up with this thing. it hadn't gotten big enough to get his attention at this point. obviously they were blindsided by it. >> the way we communicate in this country is traditionally through the printed word. people like us write and other. >> two things. first of all, theelania speech was very well received here. >> sure. it was the first time. >> yes, in 2008 when michelle obama gave it.
>> right. >> but the fact that it's from michelle obama as well just adds an extra -- >> this opens up john ernst, the chance to be cute as. that stick like but i also found that -- >> michael, do you think there's any possibility that the trump people can finesse this and deny it? >> no. i mean, if the paragraph in question is identical and apparently it is, you're not going to finesse this, you're not going to want to finesse this. you're going to want to get out in front of it, sack whose ever responsible for it, however many
people the anything else that has happened in this campaign and someone is going to get it and get it good. >> i want to do something sort of editorial here, i think whoever did it i, would like to talk to you right now. i've been in messes in my life, not quite like this. but your smart move is to fall the there is no advantage in time -- when it doubt, put it out. the longer you keep the fish, the more it smells. get it out, move on, take the heat and walk. >> i think mr. roberts has made a very important point here, as he examining the handwriting structure. that's one of the many
structures that donald trump have to have around him that have to have om organization -- >> he's got to fire that person immediately. >> there is one hierarchy in this campaign. the convention manager, the de facto campaign manager. >> in but he is the best for this kind of speech. this kind. >> we don't know. it wasn't landon because he would haven't taken someone else to the beech here? >> after we just became andand
of this night. >> hey there. i'm here talking about this sort of remarkable series of events that happened after what was supposed to be the crown jewel of financial to where were it's empty now but it was almost e ems -- as we saw was donald trump do what donald trump does, which is we, something nothing about the. >> tom kentucky tolls ace if michelle beau would be given a pass had she done the same thing in 2008. i think that we're all very quickly passing the responsibility on to staff and
clearly this a campaign that is poorly staffed. i think that has been clear for a long time. they sent melania trump over to say that she's immediately spee yes, the ka pain management has been poor here but michelle obama did give the speech and melania strum f. >> how ridiculous it is to see something like this happen. someone who is a first time to the convention goer and is know this the prit call pageant. it me it just seems inkred icre
>> we have seen him playing the media. i can see him being defensive of his wife, it's a group of critics who are attacking her and that it was the impact of what she said, it was the way she connected. i'm not saying that's the right thing, joe, i'm saying i would presikt i'm going to be acme for us. >> and what to posit theaters came forward and thoughs ou what we will choose. in she did. >> i don't know if you go in and touch first lady's speech.
rhetoric and talk about murder and death and tieing it all back to immigrants, an illegal migration. i mean, rudy giuliani screamed his entire speech. we had the audience made to clear the notes in the freddy grain based. they're sort of hostile. if you're a person of color, this is a weird place to be and then melania trump comes out and includiveness. then it is it melania, is it donald trump, is it somebody in the campaign? >> that's a good question.
it's going to be perhaps to text melania trump. plagiarism can only be -- number one, show that the party is unified and be talking about unity. you were there with what you saw at 4 p.m. on the floor today. the other thing is to show there's more to him than the public doesn't see. what are we going tock talking about on day two about that? nothing. >> it probably doesn't matter -- it's not an additive day and this doesn't help. >> we'll see more trump family members so they'll all know be under a let scrutiny
. >> particularly for big night speeches, for emotional speeches and thing like that. in this case when matt lauer was on the plane, all the white leather, talking to melania and donald trump and he asked about the speech. he didn't ask her did you write it. she volunteered here. >> one part of the campaign ends
and one part begins. has she gone over the speech with you? did you practice it on the plane? >> i read once over it and that's all. because i wrote it and with a little help, as possible. the second part is the unraveling of the rest of the fore. since we've been talking about this, we've heard nothing but from the trump campaign except for a push back. >> i can tell how flat footed the campaign is right now.
and here his wife's speech has become the question of the hour on national television and there is not one tweet from donald trump about this. if he was ready to go out there and mount the defense that this is not plagiarism, if he'd made that decision, he would have probably tweeted that decision already. the decision about how to handle this is still being made. >> no question about it. i want to defend melania trump for a second. i've spent my entire career around musicians, as you have -- or at least. he's probably the best writer as president since linkin oo.
a-list politicians to work with speech writers, they give direction this those speeches and even though the speech writer might be, hey, i watch the speech. always the principle tall thank now, it's all work on it. >> milania trump did say the pords. i didn't take that serious will when she said that. i took that to be the politician version of" wrote the speech." they gave one to me, they plut it, i chris matthews et al will take it away from cleveland. eat, or building the best houses in town. or becoming the next highly-unlikely dotcom superstar. and us, we'll be right there with you,
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