tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC July 22, 2016 12:00pm-1:01pm PDT
place as we fight the war of our times, which appears to be terrorism. coming up here in just a few seconds, we will start the 3:00 hour here on the east coast. it is 3:00 p.m. in the east, noon on the west coast, 9:00 p.m. local time in munich, germany. the scene of the latest at least mass shooting and potential of more than one shooting location within munich, germany. too early to label this anything but a shooting. too early to label this terrorism with any specificity but are people to the u.s. are monitoring german media. the state department police reports trying to find out more. the other domestic story we are
following at 3:00 p.m. on a friday afternoon is the possibility that quite short ly we will learn hillary clinton's choice for vice presidential candidate. we have probably devoted like 50 hours to live political coverage thus far this week. the gop convention having wrapped up last night in cleveland. it has been thought and the f m former secretary of state has a campaign event in florida this afternoon. it's been thought that her supporters would be notified perhaps by twitter, perhaps by e-mail and perhaps most. perhaps they would be unveiled publicly as a ticket tomorrow. the democratic convention and domestic politics begins on monday of next week. that was before. our attention was yanked overseas. richard engel is here with me in
our new york studios. as we reset at the top of this hour, talk about the germany of 2016. the concerns and this is indeed the latest act of global terrorism. >> well, you were talking about the debate last night. and these issues are not unrelated. the fact that we heard all this talk about make america safe again and make america secure and strong. there were rmpbss to the attacks in europe. newt gingrich listed all the terrorist attacks. so there's real fear in this country and real fear in europe. the story of the year was the breakdown of the mass arrival of refugees. this year the story has been terrorist attacks.
s terrorist attacks that seem to happen with incredible freque frequency, with a variety of different methods, but the truck, a bomb, a shooter and this case it seems to be all shooters. but small group of dedicated militants who launch a coordinated and staggered attack that shuts down a city. so to bring people up to date. multiple shooters. two or more. most reports say three started opening fire a few hours ago. the shooting started at a mcdonald's, which is adjacent to the shopping mall in munich. police plooef some of the shooters continued their rampage into the mall itself. the german police say people
should stay indoors wp. >> richard engel, who has covered really nothing but terrorism and the war against it for the last decade or so. the usual role. >> so brian, this one also and we saw this after nice, a lot of misinformation that the police in munich are now trying to churn through about possible attacks as they have placed the city on lockdown. i want to play this video. this is shortly before 6:00 p.m.
in munich in the northwest part of the city. you're going to see a gunman standing calmly. he's going to cock some kind of weapon and open fire. we'll play a that for you now. >> we know there was a follow on secondary shooting at the mall. that's where we're seeing casualties on the ground. what happened after that shooting at the mall is the thing that have police not only on high alert, but locking down subway stations and train
stations in and around munich. that's at least a video of one of those gunmen. we're sort of still working through these initial reports, whether it's two gunmen, three gunmen, but again, in these shootings, we have seen this time and time again. they are becoming more and more frequent unfortunately. siems those initial initial witness reports turn oud not to be true. it feels like everyone is shooting at you. and certainly for those enjoying a day at the mall, to suddenly come under that sustained gunfire. and very controlled gunfire as well. . you can hear in that video it's controlled gunfire. this is not somebody who is opening fire in the sort of spraying the street. there's aim being taken there. it's very, very chilling video when you see the calm manner this gunman is exerting. we have seen footage photos of the same gunman then on the
rooftop of a parking garage. that parking garage attached to the mall. not clear if the photos are from before the shooting began or after, which is why at this point we haven't cleared them. >> it's chilling and cold-blooded. it's little comfort to say this, but we should any way. a much rarer circumstance than it is in the united states in large part because weapons are much hard er to come by in germany. this is much more of an extraordinary thing that they are witnessing. they don't have anything like the u.s. second amendment. they have nothing like the per capita gun ownership stats we have in this country. president obama, as the con influence would have it is stopping by the ongoing conference at the white house on policing when he talked about this event in munich. just hours ago, we carried his
live news conference with the president of mexico. as his day went along, he was briefed on this latest issue of gun violence in munich. hans nickels covering for us at the white house. >> this happened about 12 minutes ago. president obama says the situation is still an active situation. he's working together all the fa fact. the and as you menaced, he is speaking to law enforcement. he dropped by. this was an imprompt tu meeting taking place here at white house. hopefully we'll be able to play out here at the white house. president obama turned it back around and tied it back to the conversation we're having about law enforcement. it's a reminder of how dependent we really are on law enforcement. and brian, if i could, i just
spent throw years in germany back now here in washington. when you think of that in munich, the central train station. the main subway lines run through there. they take you around the ring road up to the airport. this is a crucial holiday period. as i have been reading a lot of local papers just trying to follow through what's going on with social media, there are reports from about 20 minutes ago. this is from focus online. very respected publication that an arrest has been made. but in the same report that we have not verified here, there was a report of one of the suspects having potentially exemployeesive in his or her backpack. there's a lot going on. they are like us. scrambling to get the facts on the ground. but we do have condolences and awareness of the situation. >> thank you. we have curtesy of "the washington post" filed 17 minutes ago.
we have this. these are fresh live pictures on the left-hand side of your screen. you see a member of the police or military having some stern exchange with either the cameraman or the reporter. an employee inside the shopping mall said she saw a gunman open fire outside her clothing store. the assailant described as about 6'1" wearing a black shirt and some kind of vest. moved through the corridor before leaving the building. as is the cold, calculated gunman outside the mcdonald's. as traffic passes in the street in front of him. and now "the washington post" their headline at this hour is
gunman go on rampage in munich mall. city on lockdown amid-man hunt. german police put munich on lockdown after three gunmen and they are reporting this as fact as most news organizations are. z at least three gunmen opened fire and fled the scene. authorities said a german broadcaster reported at least six people killed. we have seen some mention of this. death the president has said the hearts go out to the wounded. he will be joined in that sentiment by most of the leaders in the free world. richard engel is among our correspondents. before we go to andy. something that bears repeat iin
as we're getting viewers with each passing moment the current moment in germany. >> there's anger in germany. there's anger in europe as these attacks continue to take place. plast week it was nice. then a train station and munich now. nice isn't an obvious target. a small provincial train station you wouldn't think of a big topic. these are not new york. so even the small towns in places like germany or france are wondering are we going to be next. and that sense of unease if this was anni isis attack, is exactl what isis is trying to do.
it's always been location. syria is right next to europe. it's not hard to get there. you can go through turkey. it was much easier. and that channel has been activated. it's creating resentment toward ankle merkel, who was perceived to have opened the door to a a lot of people, to a lot of immigrants. we're going to see an angry reaction. >> they became aware of germany because of terrorism. that's what put it on the map globally, but in the years and decades since it has thrived and prospered, especially known, well known for how terrific a
tourist destination it is and will continue to be. andy ekheart is our long-time producer in germany. he's with us once again by telephone. what have you learned? >> well, i just talked minutes ago to the munich police again and they do confirm that three suspects are on the run. they are equipped at least with long gun weapons. they have not been found yet, as far as police have told me. and he said it's directly on lockdown. it's hard to imagine a city like munich that buzzes so much at this time of the year to have no public transportation going. there are reports that all taxi service has been terminated for the time being. it's blocking off streets. it must be a scary se ncenario there. there also have been reported in
some of the media that police have deployed helicopters and sharp shooters. you know the images and probably seen them of the special forces units that come solely masked and look quite scary to most people who would encounter them on the streets. so it is a gruesome scenario out there and especially because these three men have not been found yet and people are worried. they have been told to stay inside. lots of twitter messages from police and even the german government is sending messages to reenforce that that people should listen to twitter and other messages by police. and quite interesting, police saying that people should not tweet photos and videos because it could help attackers in their escape and in the process of fighting the police if it comes to that.
>> that is an absolute vital request. that is not made idolly and it's a word of caution to people here in the united states after an event like this. certainly for those intended in germany this is an unfolding action and people who feel compelled to post every moment of their lives in 2016 really should remember that in in a situation like this lives are at stake and the most innocuous thing could give away something that the police are not anxious to share putting perhaps more lives at stake. so it's a warning that should be heeded. andy, please bring us back when you know anything more. richard, all your years covering warfare. helicopters, even small ones were used as gun platforms in baghdad/iraq. >> you want to hear a scary fact? i keep track of my days worked
for tax purposes and things like that. this year, and i've been covering and living and working in the middle east for the last 20 years. this year i've spent more calendar days in europe than i have in cairo or ayman or baghdad. i have spent more days in paris, germany, brussels and other cities like that. i think that trend is continuing. it is not a good trend. you have seen the external security of europe breakdown. there's a lot of anger and fear. the idea of a german city lockdown. look all the those pictures. there's not a person on the road. all taxis suspended. the city has become a ghost town. nobody knows where the gunmen are. that suggests a pretty high degree of sophistication. maybe they had a safe house arranged.
it's not easy to disappear when you're three people the whole city is looking for you and carrying weapons. it's not an easy thing. helicopters looking to take them down, this is not just a new reality. this is a science fiction reality. >> it really is. it's the slow motion war of our tim times. not so slow motion on days like today. tom costello in washington with more. >> a couple points here. to reiterate the state department is warning and asking anyone who is in munich to shelter if it place. also urging them through twitter to reach out to their loved ones to let them know they are well. this is new. the star woods hotel chain has gone to lockdown in munich. so all their properties in munich are now on lockdown.
they are trying to make sure everybody stays where they are and that everybody is secure. look at these images, i'm reminded of san bernardino and the terror that swept through san bernardino as they had at least two suspects on the loose at the time you may recall we thought there might be more and how many people were terrified as police went on a manhunt for those suspects. and also the feeling in the streets on 9/11 as i was living in new york at the time and i know you were as well. terror of that night wondering whether suspects might strike at any moment. also a little bit more on the isis summit. the anti-isis summit held here in washington yesterday with foreign ministers and that type of protocol level talking to secretary kerry. they talked about the importance of realtime communication between countries, information sharing so police and border
kwards and airport security officials know when they are coming into contact with suspected terrorists and so they know if one country or another somebody was visiting they can share that information. that's about information flow and coordination. that was the conversation yesterday here in washington. and lastly, you talked about how this particular portion of munich was built really for the 1972 olympics. one of my earliest news memories as even then a kid who was fascinated with international developments and 1972 was when we had had 11 israeli olympic members taken hostage and killed by the pal palestinian group. they were executed. but that is where this is happening is in the shadow of the 1972 munich crisis during
the olympics then. >> we remember that coverage for abc and uttering those famous very sad words there. cal perry has more with us here in new york. >> picking up where richard and tom were talking about the surreal nature of what's happening in munich. nightclubs will be closed tonight. trains have been shut down than that includes the main train station. police have just put this out. they want people in munich to stay off the highways. i would imagine specifically the highways that run south towards the nearby borders of switzerland and austria. but this is now a city that's full on lockdown. the pictures that you're seeing live of empty streets, i'm looking at pictures on social media that extend well beyond the corner of this city. it looks like a city that has been completely put on lockdown and virtually abandoned.
>> you look at cars looking like they are on a well-traveled suburban street, but also people have just given up. they have been turned off and no one has any hope of going anywhere tonight. richard engel, you had a point you wanted to make. >> we were looking for a comparable example. there was an attack by the two brothers and then they went on the run. you remember the whole eastern sea board was crazed. where are they going to come? there were reports they were on a train. the whole eastern sea board was shut down. police were roaming the streets looking for them. and then e eventually found them and it became a very massive exchange of fire. so the question is what will germany do now? will they find them? if you remember in the first
paris attack, and i say that with emphasis because there have been several, which is notable. one of the attackers managed to get across the border and go across the border into brussels. so clearly, that's why they are shutting down the highways. that's why they are trying to prevent. people from moving. they want to keep them local. i want to keep them contained. they don't want to end up in another german city or country. >> how do you keep a city in lockdown? >> these are new pictures as we are watching. a light rain is falling. coming up on 9:30 local time. these are identified obviously as police officers. with automatic weapons in the kind of urban combat role we
have seen police and military. that's where all this traffic has stopped. there's a clump of people behind where the cars have been abandoned. it looks like heavily traveled. perhaps a bike path alongside heavily traveled suburban street and everything is stopped right there. press photographer on the right. first responders sporadically. let's not forget about them. the people attending to the shooting victims outside the mcdonald's running into danger to save other lives. there's a police officer with an automatic weapon in front of that mercedes. just terrible scenes in germany. the u.s. consulate, you see there at the bottom of your
screen. they took this seriously from the outset telling all americans and their dependents to shelter in place. as we have been saying, germany at any given moment is home to tens of thousands of americans. first of all, beginning with our large military population there. second, people living and working, contractors and employees in germany. and third, especially right now the height of the terrorist econom. the new modern berlin has attracted its share of tourist traffic. one of the kind of very current cool cities to visit if you're traveling through europe with a price tag to match. but munich has always been one
of those places that americans try to go. matt bradley is standing by. >> are you seeing five dead now? >> matt bradley, can you hear us? >> yes, i can. >> what do you have that's new? >> we are not really e seeing anything particularly new at this moment, but we're trying to get some more information for you. i have some information on some background information on gun control issues. but as of the break news, we're still trying to search for things. >> we have richard engel here in new york. richard, this urban lockdown, as you point out, not something new to us sadly. something we're already familiar with in this country. this is the global war that we have to get used to. those who aren't used to already. >> who wants to get used to this
kind of world? who wants to live in a world where three gunmen would come out, look for targets, start killing people at random. the police force swarms the streets. they lock down the roads and the skies. you have to be in your home. so the people stuck in transit not necessarily allowed to go back to their homes right now. as this hunt continues with the assumption in past attacks can provide a reasonable degree of certainty that they are looking for more targets. when the first "charlie hebdo" shooters, when they went on the run, they looked for more targets. and then one of the cousins holed himself up by the airport. and was under siege and within the out in a shootout.
the bataclan paris attackers, they left the coup try and managed to get into brussels and organized the brussels attack. they struck again. it's very important if this is a terrorist, and i think it's certainly looks that way, to find these people because there's every reason to assume that they will find new targets or potentially u go to another country, reconstitute themselves. >> let me ask a question. the wealth yellowstone in europe. a free society, yes. you were quoting such high numbers of germans who went off to join isis u. and any number over one of them who came back after that radicalization process, 250, what about keeping track of these soul when is they come back? >> it's been a real problem.
not just for germany because so many of them have come back and once they do, they can move into germany or france or belgium undetected. so that's just the german numbers. but this doesn't mean this person would necessarily be a german. it could have been someone from another european country. although isis tends to be a location specific organization. the french nationals like to attack france. it's the way of planting their flag. when isis is organized, they are organized sbo language groups and their own little cells. so it was a russian speaking cell carried out at the airport. this part is speculation, but the assumption would be some sort of german attacks so they
can plant their own flag and establish their own in their mafia network that is isis. >> all kocountries have a numbe of people who have gone off and people who have come back. it's been an issue in canada. it's been an issue in the united states. so many other european countries. . >> we spend a lot of time focusing on it and research iin this story about american who is had gone off and joined isis. it's a much smaller number compared to europe. we're talking about a few hundred compared to thousands in europe. and a lot of it has to do with two things. it's the proximity. you could go from europe through turkey and get to syria relatively easily. it was a welcoming environment. and then you have these long standing ghettos. i think that's really the only way to describe them. particularly in france where migrants feel ostracized and became breeding grounds for anger. for people for discontent.
those two things met each other. the ability to reach a horrendous battlefield and an existing well of anger and discontentment. that horrible combination has come together and that's whiy we're seeing these flare ups in almost pick a european city, almost pick a week. >> lock at these interesting pictures as you speak. on the left-hand side of your screen, this is not the center of town in munich that so many people and tourists are familiar with. this is interesting. this is obviously a kind of urban, suburban part of town where we can assume these are germans and not tourists. these look like local folks on a summer evening. but it also looks like there's something of a check point, like some of these people may be
plain clothes security personnel. hard to tell exactly what's going on. but you can see the general environment there. highway guardrail, graffiti on the bridge behind them. people dressed the way people dress. not the way american tourists would dress for summer vacation. but something is going on in the munich suburbs. we know the main story and that's a massive manhunt by air u, ground and in some cases underground. we don't often have the opportunity to revise a number down, but earlier we read aloud the latest report from "the washington post" and now from police in munich. we're happy to say the death toll is at five. we had said six earlier. no information on children versus adults. quoting from police in munich. as translated, this is a terror
situation we have. they are calling it terrorism. they are using this term because of the weapons being used. they say up to three gunmen are still at large. weapon or weapons longer than a pistol, something like a rifle, though it was very clear looked certainly, sounded like a .9 millimeter in that shaky video outside the mcdonald's. police are assuming they are still in munich. >> we're thankful for anything we can get. we're not happy to report any of this. these scenes that are coming in and some are live and some are on tape are increasingly
desperate. as richard keeps pointing out, imagine an urban lockdown friday night in the middle of summer. in one of the more outdoor oriented european cities. the light rail system snakes through the center of munich and it's not uncommon to have the train kind of glide by missing you by a few inches because everyone is cheek by jowl on the sidewalks and crosswalks. malcolm nance continues to watch along with us. he's familiar with germany. a 30-year expert on counterterrorism and intelligence. and author of the book defeating isis. malcolm, anything has come into you in the last few minutes and
anything you want to add to our larger discussion here? >> rhode islaichard gave a bril overview of the situation as it exists in europe on a strategic level. but on the street level in a city like munich, it's an integrated city. especially the area where the old olympiapark was where the giant mall is located. very wide, relatively modern. these communities are pretty well integrated. you have the turkish communities. they don't live like they live over in france in some respects. when they have these slightly ghettoized area in france and brussels. i find it quite surprising that these guys would actually carry out the attack in one location and run off and there's annen confirmed report that one of them may have been cornered and shot himself. but for the most participa, the attacks are focused on punishing
germany u. there's between 200 and 250 returns that have come back from an isis operations. intelligence and counterintelligence perspective it's extremely difficult to put man power and eyes on every individual. and so for the most part, german intelligence can only go on the leads that they have which is something that's operative. that doesn't mean 250 former isis members aren't radicalizing some of these new mie grants. aren't saying that you have come here and not going to be integrated to this society. i want to hurt you and harm you and could have had one incident brushing up against the very popular neonazi skin heads. they could create a new cell of brand new operatives who don't even have to be directed. they just inspire them and
facilitate the illegal weapons trade that comes from eastern europe and north africa. they can go out and give them a target and kill with impunity all with none of the returns being one of the shooters. >> i want to go to andy ekheart our producer in germany on the phone. i fear this death toll number is going to go back and forth. and i fear it will perhaps increase. >> i think you're right, brian. unfortunately, the death toll police just said in a press conference, which i monitored that the death toll is at six at the moment. they do not have numbers for the people that have been injured, but still say that several people have been injured out at the mall when the shooting happened. and as it is in these very fluid situations unfortunately the numbers tend to spike at some
point. let's hope that's not the case. but police are assessing the situation as they are evaluating the environment and especially looking for the men still on the run with their weapons. >> and andy, there's no better way to enforce a shelter in place order or a strong recommendation than to do what they have done. they have stopped surface transportation in munich. the german police and especially have been putting some kind of scenario and plan into place that will help them to deal with these kind of events. we had talked to police in the recent past when we visited them in munich on background and told them that they have very concrete response plans for
these type of scenarios. that's what you're seeing right now. so it doesn't come as a surprise that they immediately locked down the subway system. that they are opening main transit roads just for police and emergency vehicles. and the police are also saying they are bringing in police forces from the region. munich itself is already a big city with a lot of police forces. but they are already maxed out and asking people from other parts calling from it other parts of the country to join them in this search and to bring the situation in munich under control. >> and one more question. for our viewers who may not know, what is baa vary ya in the scheme of the larger germany. >> it's in the southeastern part of the country. the capital is munich. it's a popular state for
vacationing also because it has a lot of forested areas, lakes. these beautiful old castle may be the one that everybody knows from disneyland is one of the main attractions for tourists. so i'm pretty sure that a will the of foreigners including american. s will be in the city center drinking a beer or enjoying the sunshine. >> andy, o our long-time producer based in germany. thanks. stay in touch. cal perry here in new york monitoring everything coming into us as a light rain falls at 9:40 p.m. in munich, germany. >> monitoring a local press conference that's just happened in munich. here's what police have. the mall was immediately placed on lockdown. there's 100 civilians still inside that mall. they are about to start movering those people out.
they are coming out of that mall. they believe that the gunmen are working with, as they put it, a short handgun or pistol. that would seem to go with what we saw in that video from that mcdonald's. they didn't say the mcdopd's, but they are saying two locations at that mall. interestingly enough, police want all video that anyone has to be sent to the police so that they can review it. they are also letting people know that there are a number of videos circulating online that do not show what people think that they show. and i can confirm this with my own eyes. i have seen video from the mall attack reportedly being from germany. and i've even seen german tv stations playing video of a german drill that took place recently. the police are very concerned
that people are getting these video clips confuse d. they even cited anti-terror police downtown near the munich train station carrying long rifles. that seemed to cause a scare. they want people to stop broadcasting live for a variety of reasons. they fin you shalled the press conference by say iing this is e biggest operation in germany in ten years, which would indicate this is the latest operation in germany since the 2006 world cup, which is astonishing. >> cal perry, thanks. heartbreaking to see the pictures we just ran through of the families, a person in a wheelchair being pushed. a small child wearing a bicycle helmet as people run across the street. again, way too familiar, if it's not our country we're seeing these pictures in, it is, for example, today munich, germany. the left-hand side of the screen is where we are able to play the newest elements coming into us as now this police van is
backing up in this intersection. i've just been told this is a life picture on the left-hand side of your screen of this intersection. and again, police seldom do things without good reason. they are here for a reason. let's hope they are here because they feel they have a bead on these suspects and they are advancing on them and not that this scene has moved on. chris dickey is with us. one of the people, again, we tend to talk to when there's been a terrorism outbreak. chris, we just watched the scene of an armored personnel carrier on the move in munich. for our viewers, by the way, chris was paris bureau chief editor for "the daily beast" and newsweek. he's based in paris.
chris, when we last spoke, a deranged man had driven a truck through innocent souls watching fireworks in nice, france. now this. >> just over a week ago. one of the things this people need to keep in mind about this as we listen again and again and talk again and again about terrorism, about mass killings, about all these horrible things that are happening is how few people actually are involved in carrying them out. because what we're looking at now in europe and at the republican convention and in the discourse in the united states, is a lot of talk about war as if we're talking about a massive operati operation. even when we're talking about countries that have had a number of people go to syria and train
with isis and perhaps come back, we're talking about a few hundred here and there. yet we're often talking as if if we're going to go to war with a billion muslims. we need to be careful about that. but the broader discourse is really kind of hysterical because the reaction we all feel is we want a simple solution. we want to be safe again. we don't want this to happen anymore. but we have to recognize that there's a very small number of people who are carrying out these acts. and that should always be the perspective that we keep these things in. it's still more of a law enforcement issue than a military issue to a large extent. particularly inside europe, inside the united states. >> and chris, to your point, when you consider that this scene in munich is soil that boots from world war i and boots from world war ii marched on in such a titanic, global struggle, some days this war, to your point, carried out by a a few
individuals seems as immense to people as a challenge. >> it does. it's nothing like as immense as that. it is a challenge. it's a terrible situation. we have to do all that's necessary to eliminate these terrorist groups and track the kind of lunatics that answer the call of isis and similar organizations. i don't think politicians are wise as the prime minister of france said we're just going to have to get used to this. we don't want to hear that from politicians. but it's a fact. we will get used to it. in the meantime, such aspects of the war as our military will go on and a lot of police work and a lot of intelligence work are going to have to continue, but there are still going to be some lunatics like the hustler in nice who carried out the atrocity over a week ago who are
going to decide to turn their lousy little lives sbo huge spectacles of death. and they will succeed. >> he was indeed, especially as more became known about him, perfectly put he was a two-bit hustler with a grudge, access to a truck. as i kept saying that night, a bad idea. the wrong motivation taking advantage of people's good nature as they were milling about too many of them with families and children enjoying the fireworks on that highly populated promenade. richard engel, thanks to our friend chris dickey, this goes to the crux of your life. this is the soil that was fought over by the great powers of the earth and yet there are days when people like you and me look at this ongoing story we're covering and think how are e we
ever going to get on top of this. how are good people ever going to win. >> it goes back to frankly the problems of the middle east. and there is a fire burning in the middle of the middle east right now in iraq and syria. and that fire is still consuming those two countries. it is casting a halo of smoke that is settled on to europe. even if that fire is put out, and there are efforts underway. some people say more efforts should be done to put that fire out, that the smoke will still linger for a period. i think europe is going to face these kind of problems of isis. even after isis is removed from raqqah and removed from mosul. but e eventually the fires will burn out and these clouds will settle. these groups are not popular within the general muslim world. they do not have widespread support as chris dickey was
saying in more than a billion muslims on the planet. but right now they do have territory. they do have an army. they have the ability to recruit and amid-propaganda. so the core of the issue remains iraq and syria and its ability to inspire or direct its mull tants and project its power. i u like to think of it as an engine. it's a furnace. that engine is burning in iraq and syria and it's emit iting i clouds of smoke that are contaminating the neighboring areas. >> again, for folks listening to the tone and tenor and content of our conversation with people like chris dickey and richard engel, we lack the proof that this is isis or even terrorism. the german police said they are calling it terrorism because of the weapons was their translated statement.
we don't know if this is the kind of classic terrorism we have been covering. we are assuming all we do know is this is an apparent act of multiple shootings. we're watching this police response in germany, police work is universal, and these are police officers who were in the middle of an average friday in the summer in munich, germany and across germany. same people as their counterparts in the united states with families and plans for the weekend, and suddenly they have kind of outfitted up into an aggressive stance where they are looking for multiple suspects, not knowing the real estate we are seeing, we have seen various kind of suburban
boulevards, some urban streets and especially by european standards, vehicles are smaller and their response is not as large and they are not as equipped to handle mega-huge emergencies as we are, and my european standards this is a very robust response in germany. the control room was trying to get a note to me. cal perry has more in new york. >> we are going to take another look at the video, and a heads up to the viewers, it's a little disturbing and we are going to take a closer look than we have. here 8 gunman outside the mcdonald's. this is the first location we know there was a shooting. we also know there was a shooting at the mall, which is adjacent to the mcdonald's. you will see the gunman make a motion to him, which i believe is him putting a round into the chamber of what i believe is a
pistol, unconfirmed, of course, and the police are saying the same, they believe it's a pistol or handgun. police are operating under the assumption there were two or three gunmen. they are sweeping not only munich but much of southern germany as the highways are closed. we are waiting to get pictures of the highways. it's obviously amazing what we are seeing on the left side of the screen there where you are seeing the empty streets and the highways have also been cleared, to richard's point, very clearly trying to keep people from leaving the country and trying to keep it as contained as they can keep it. anybody that has travelled around europe knows on most days you can drive between these countries, certainly tonight that is not going to be the case, and police reiterating just as we saw at the u.s. consulate, shelter in place, and
munich is asking people to stay at home, and not broadcast anything live, and that would lead us to believe the gunmen are still on the loose, and they are hoping to corner the gunmen and then their location is given up, and that's where we are right now on a strange night in munich. >> despite the ammunition not to broadcast live pictures locally, these are live but i suppose they don't show a critical part of the response. that seems to be the universal logo of emergency medical services there on the passenger side of the front of the bus, and it's probably meant to either be a mass casualty response vehicle or ferry first responders to a scene. hans nichols who is at the white
house for us also speaks german, and has just spent the last few years in germany and listen to the german briefing just concluded. what did you hear? >> i think the most important part is they feel they have the suspects contained in the city of munich. this is going to be a regional operation and they already said police in germany are spanning this out in munich and they said they will rely on other neighborhoods to make sure they have the full force in effect and they said they think it's contained in germany, and there's a police shutdown of the city, all traffic, and then importantly, as you mentioned, brian, there's an effort not to broadcast too much because they don't want to tip-off the government. we just had a statement from the office, and they are saying they do not have that much information right now and they are asking for understanding and they don't want speculation out there. what we also know here from the white house putting on my other hat, brian, president obama
about an hour and a half ago was briefed on the situation by his homeland security adviser, and he said his thoughts and prayers are with the german people and it's a reminder why we need to support police across the country, at home and abroad. >> thank you for that. that's not only helpful but also hopeful to think that this threat, the suspects are contained, let's hope, in this one part of the munich metropolitan area. we're looking at the live pictures on the left-hand side of your screen and now we have taken them full and you can only assume what we are looking at a is sifting process, perhaps this bus is being used to ferry people who have been checked out, and people who have been stopped in their tracks on their way out of their neighborhood or into their neighborhood to their destination, perhaps people who have emergencies to attend to.
the people you encounter are going to be innocent unless they are the three or so suspects you are looking for in the munich metropolitan area. as we said, around nightfall light rain started to fall. this appears to be something of a choke point and there's a reason local media set up the camera coming up on 10:00 local time in germany, and this is a choke point for people in or out of the section. richard engel you had a note of what was shaky video on the start of all of this out on the sidewalk in front of the mcdonald's. >> we don't know this was isis. it's possible it wasn't, frankly. the assumption, and it's a logical assumption based on all the attacks we have seen recently, it is isis, but there are certain things unusual about this. one, fairly small casualty
numbers. two, fairly small weapons. they didn't stick around and fight. maybe they only killed five, six, seven, eight people -- i don't mean each number doesn't count and it's a relatively small number when we talk about terrorism, it suggests they ran away to either pick another target or save their own lives. that's generally not the isis m.o. i thought of something when we were looking at the video, do you remember the attack by the crazed right-winger in norway? >> sure. >> he set off a bomb in the city and then he went to a retreat and gunned down a bunch of his own country men. >> i am told that was five years ago today. >> if that had happened today, we would have immediately thought isis and we would have been right to immediately think isis, but it wasn't. >> right. >> so three people acting in some sort of coordination, it doesn't necessarily mean isis.
they can be using isis-style attacks, but i think we need to know who these people are. there's a couple things that don't fit with the isis propaganda or m.o., why the pistols? not terribly effective weapons for this kind of attack. why did they run away so quickly. >> why does it feel so strange for it to root not for it to be isis to break the cycle, even though every death is an absolute tragedy in this, and this just means we have deranged people without the affiliation, you know? >> that's the thing, it is some other group, some other furious group? >> i just thought about that, with the fact they were only on the ground. the german police by all accounts were on the scene quickly. >> uh-huh. >> you know german police, their counterterrorism forces are amazingly good, and the suspects were already gone.
they could not have been there for very long. it appears they know the city well enough that they found places to hide. >> yeah. that's right. >> something strange is happening here. >> one minute to go in this hour, and i will just bring you up-to-date on what you are looking at on the screen. the upper right-hand corner is the shopping mall where the first report of gunfire came from, and part of a complex that was first built, and then handed over to public use after the munich olympic games. the lower right was the first, while it was still daylight, some of the first video we got of police responding, and on the left-hand side of your screen at the light rain falls in munich, we have a bus that appears to be carrying german civilians and some first responders who appear to be displaying the logo of ems, medical services.
we see some children and we see older folks, some adults. it appears to be an ems or perhaps red cross equivalent bus taking people, perhaps who have been stranded out of position in a part of munich that is not their home neighborhood. germans have been told in this vicinity to shelter in place and to enforce that they stopped surface transportation in music. we just passed the 4:00 a.m. local time, and there's a huge massive manhunt going on, and as you have seen on the graphic, the current death toll german police are reporting is six with many more wounded. we have seen one instance of shooting outdoors, outside a