tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC August 2, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
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♪ using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the framework... wire... and plants needed to give my shop... a face... no one will forget. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink i have jumped fully into the first block of lawrence o'donnel's first block of that does it for us tonight we'll see you tomorrow. it is way past time. i'm sorry i hit the top of your show. >> that means you have to stay for the rest. >> okay. >> you can't go home. >> i owe you, i'll dwo anything.
>> if you're big fans of donald trump's kids, you might not like what's coming up later in the show or you just might be very disappointed in your heroes, the trump kids. first, i first raised the issue of donald trump's mental health last year when so much of the political media was chuckling along with the campaign and finally the media has stopped laughing and is more and more coming to recognize the clear and present danger that president obama identified today, donald trump is unfit for the office of the presidency. it's becoming more and more clear the biggest disqualifying factor as donald trump as president is his mental health. >> nominee is unfit. he keeps on proving it. >> i filled the calls all day yesterday.
everybody was talking about his mental health. >> he's a black hole. >> there is nothing inside him to sustain and make him feel good or worthy. >> what does this say about your party, that this is your standard barrier. >> don't worry about that baby, i love babies. actually i was only kidding, you can get that baby out of here. >> you're not going to find me being critical of mr. and mrs. khan. it's inappropriate of us. >> why are you still endorsing. >> if i change my mind, i'll let you know, i don't support it. >> even if you can't stand donald trump, you think donald trump is the worst, you're going to vote for him. >> he's a deeply, deeply damaged human being. >> he has no awareness of what it is he's doing and the kind of pain he's inflicting. >> without empathy, the leader is no leader. >> there has to come a point in
which you say "enough". >> today president obama said the words about candidate nominated to be his successor, unfit to serve. >> i think the republican nominee is unfit to serve as president, i said so last week. and he keeps on proving it. the notion that he would attack a gold star family that had made such extraordinary sacrifices on behalf of our country, the fact that he doesn't appear to have basic knowledge around critical issues in europe and the middle
east and in asia, means that he's willfully unprepared to do this job. >> the very first thing on the president's list there is the thing that changed the presidential campaign this weekend, donald trump attacking a gold star family, the parents of army captain khan who was killed in action in iraq in 2004 when he saved the lives of his fellow soldiers and many other bystanders. captain khan's parents made their first appearance on this television show. after that trump lashed out at them. much of the country responded. you don't have to have been watching donald trump very attentively to not be surprised that he attacked mr. and mrs. khan because he attacks everyone who doesn't praise him. apparently some people made the mistake of thinking there was a limit to donald trump's cruelty.
in the first republican debate donald trump claimed that his public cruelty to rosy o'donnel should be forgiven because he was talking about rosy o'donnel. >> you've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals. >> only rosy o'donnel. >> no it wasn't. >> notice the republican audience loved that. they agreed with donald trump, that there's no such thing as cruelty. it's all laughable as long as it's aimed at rosy o'donnel. and much of the media seem to have no problem. they forget they he called "new york times" collins a dog and she's not rosy on don nel. i wasn't surprised that he attacked mr. and mrs. khan, no
one should have been surprised that he tried to demean mrs. khan as a muslim woman, who was not allowed to speak. even though she had already spoken to the nation on this program before he publicly attacked her. it was a sick thing to do and there is plenty of reason to do donald trump did it because he is sick, mentally ill. no matter how many times donald trump called women dogs, most in the political media were never going to question his mental health, but the line he crossed over the weekend with the khan family has finally directed the question of what's wrong with donald trump at the right target, his mental health. >> everybody was asking me about his mental health. it was all everybody was talking about yesterday. it's not like there was talking points that was shout out by the dnc or by anybody else. everybody was talking about his mental health yesterday.
everybody was calling me, saying, what's happening to him? what is wrong with him? >> somebody has got to do a psychological profile and figure out why he acts the way he acts and is it really unhinged. >> it's not the donald trump that i've known for over a decade. >> in the washington post eugene robinson's carried the headline question, is donald trump just plain crazy? gene robinson wrote, i thought he was being crazy like a fox, now i'm increasingly convinced that he's just plain crazy. at this point, it would be irresponsible to ignore the fact that his grasp on reality appears to be tenuous at best. >> i spoke indirectly and directly with president putin who could not have been nicer. if putin wants to go in and i got to kw him very well because we were both on 60 minutes. we were stable mates and we did
have well that night. >> i never met putin. i don't know who putin is. >> i'm going to read you a list of behavioral traits and you tell me, through the tv, if this reminds you of anyone. having exaggerating sense of self importance. expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it. exaggerating your achievements and talents. being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate, believing you're superior and only can be understood by equally people. having a sense of entitlement, expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations, taking advantage of others to get what you want. being envie you of others and believing others envy you, believing in an arrogant or
hotty matter. those are the diagnostic criteria for narcissistic personality disorder listed with any illness. and these lists with any illness are not every patient shows every symptom. you have to have a really huge narcissistic personality disorder to exhibit every one of those symptoms every day, in every public moment of your life as donald trump always does. a german physician was the first to note the condition now known as pathological lying back in 1891. here is a perfect example of just how sick donald trump's lying is. >> accept the recommendations. >> i'll tell you what i don't like, it's against two nfl games i got a letter from the nfl saying this is ridiculous, the nfl did you want want to go gens
the debates because they're going to be pretty massive, from what i understand. >> that's what donald trump look like when he's lying. he looks exactly the same as when he's telling you he loves his children, which is not a lie. there's nothing different about the way he speaks when he's lying. he didn't get a letter from the nfl. he knew he was lying about that. but that's not the sick part. lying in and of itself isn't sick. here is your choice about that particular donald trump lie. he is so sick that he told a lie knowing that the lie could be checked and proven to be a lie, but he couldn't stop himself from telling that lie, or he is so sick, his mind is incapable of grasping that the lie he was telling could be and would be proven a lie within minutes, as it was when the nfl immediately said, of course they never sent
him a letter. the pathological liar leaves behind lies the way an elephant's foot leaves dead ants behind with every step, never looking back, never feeling anything other than the exhilaration of telling the lie that makes donald trump feel so important, the big guy, who gets letters from the nfl. joining us now to consider all of this, dr. george simon, clinical psychologists and an expert on manipulators. he's the author of "in sheep's clothing" understanding and dealing with manipulative people. on the washington post and msnbc political analysts and mark singer staff writer, arthur of the book "trump and me" george simon, start us off here, this talk has been going on, now,
certainly starting with this morning on this network. but it's been coming to this for a while, there have been various pieces written about trump's mental health here and there, how should we think about this. >> well, we need to make a distinction between mental illness and personality and character disturbances. there's a difference. sometimes we see people's way of looking at the world, their way of dealing with other people, the very style they adopt of interacting with the world at large, sometimes we look at that and we see a pattern, a set of attitudes, a pattern of relating that boggles our minds and we think that it represents some form of mental illness or insanity. but this is a style that appears to work for a lot of people. it appears to get them what they want. it gets them the success they strive for in their own minds,
they're winning at the game of life, and so they adopt these strategies thinking that it works for them. and there's a big difference between personality and character and mental illness. >> mark singer how would you expect these traits to work in the oval office? >> well, i hate to think about it, of course. but what george simon just said is absolutely consistent what i observed, i spent a lot of time with donald trump almost 20 years ago. his lying was so reflective it didn't bother me. i just said this is the way the guy talks. it was so transparent. i remember one time i was waiting in the lobby and the mr. trump says come upstairs. i get out of the elevator there's trump. i don't normally do, and the apartment had been on lifestyles of the rich and famous. >> you had seen it on tv
already. >> sure. all the time. and it had been widely publicized. i just said, okay, that's okay. it didn't under mine my pleasure. you know, the excess of his home. >> you know, we're hearing from mark singer is what we heard from tony schwartz who wrote donald trump's auto biography and he's credited as a cowriter. there's no surprise about who he is seeing now, he's always been this way. >> and i think the question that we have to answer is, what happened to make us have this conversation now. you raised it a long time ago. there have been articles since he announced his candidacy about whether he had narcissistic personality disorder or other problems. and i think that people who aren't psychiatrist or psychologist, what he did to the khan family shook them in a way that nothing else could, because
here was a family that had lost their son, a mom and dad who lost their son in service to the country and instead of giving a million different answers he could have given to george stabt what he said about that convention. he treated a family that lost their son with cruelty and brutality and political calculation that i think just threw everybody into a different place. once people saw that, they then began to go back and say, wait a minute, what about all of this lying and there have been lies about trump from the very beginning. what about his attacks on everybody who crossed him, everybody who crossed him. does that tell us something. but i'm still not sure we would be here if he hadn't done this awful thing that he did to the khan family. >> let's listen to what he said to bill o'reilly tonight. when bill o'reilly was trying to
advise him that he shouldn't be getting in fights with gold star families and he especially should not be picking on the mother of captain khan. let's listen so this. >> you can fight me. you can come at me. but if there's some little muslim woman who loses her son. she can set you on fire and you can say thank you i hated those trousers. >> i didn't fight her. >> we'll talk -- >> please remember i was -- i was viciously attacked. and all i did was respond to it. and it ends up being a four-day story. >> there's two guys who both need a lot of analysis, bill o'reilly's depiction of some little muslim woman, but donald trump says i didn't fight her. i didn't fight her. please remember i was viciously attacked. what he never said, what he never could bring himself to say in that conversation is a single positive word about anyone named
khan. not mr. khan, not mrs. khan and not captain khan who has been dead 12 years now. george simon, he's denying in his response to bill o'reilly that he got in a fight with these people over the weekend, but we all saw it. >> yes, and that's a common thing for folks with character disturbances to do. it's not that they don't know what they do, it's simply that they feel entitled to do it. and donald trump, by the way, is not the only person who has this problem. you know, we live in an age of character disturbance. it's unfortunately defining issue of our time. that's why i've spent my career writing and talking about it. in one way i'm glad that we're having this national discussion these days because our problems are not really rooted in our economic woes or our other social ills. it all goes down to character and we're having a great discussion right now and we're
getting a real lesson in what can happen when these disturbances come to extreme. >> that he believes he entitled to do it. it seems to me he's always justified in whatever he says. >> oh, he absolutely believes that. i do wonder, though, i thought about a lot about this question, does he believe his own lies. i'm not a doctor. i do wonder if there's alternate hasn't that he inhabits all the time and all the traits you describe in narcissist. he's remarkably consistent that's why you're correct in saying none of this is a surprise. >> we have this tradition where presidential candidates release medical records, donald trump released the ridiculous phony letter saying that donald trump is the healthiest man in america
months and months ago. we've never asked for and never been given any mental health evaluations for these people, which is probably more important than their actual physical health. >> yeah. that letter that the doctor released read like it had been written by donald trump. >> yeah. >> maybe it was up from vladimir putin. it was an amazing thing. yeah, i think it would be, we want all of their medical records and that would include records on psychiatric help. psychiatric thing is tricky because if somebody is a decent reasonably normal person who wants to be better and seek psychiatric help, we shouldn't sort of hold that against them and you worry what the media might do with na that. but in a case like this where there are so many things obvious, we want to know more. but i think this whole story, also, is a warning to the media.
we tend to look at somebody and judge them by whether they win, so if little marco or lying ted or all that nasty stuff he was doing kind of was out of bounds it worked we let it go. it took a big event, a particular kind of event to force everybody to face up to how often he lies and attacks people and the fact that he never gives ground or apologizes even when he should. it's a blessing for the voters that this has happened early enough that we can take a really hard look at who this guy is. >> george simon, do you have any advice for voters about how to watch a candidate like this? we've never had a candidate like this for president with this kind of behavior or any advice for the media about how to deal with a candidate like this? >> well, i think the country is getting a real lesson on how important character is and how
important it is that we hold people to account. what we believe really matters. what we believe about each other really matters, the attitudes we hold, how we regard one another, how we treat one another. these things really matter. and that's going to matter to the voters come this november, i think. >> george simon, mark singer, thank you all for joining us and i really appreciate it. >> good to be with you. is there anything that donald trump can say or do to lose the endorsement of house speaker paul ryan? i'll give you my answer coming up. later a report tonight that the trump campaign staff is "suicidal" that's the word in the report. and we'll find out what he's thinking about donald trump. o) when you hit 300,000 miles. or here, when you walked away without a scratch.
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we have breaking campaign news, meg whitman, huewlett packard executive tells the "new york times," i will vote for hillary. i will talk to my republican friends about helping her and i will donate to her campaign and try to raise money for her. that is the latest republican switch to supporting hillary clinton. here is what president obama said about paul ryan, mitch mcconnell and john mccain's support of donald trump. >> and the question i think that they have to ask themselves is, if you are repeatedly having to say in very strong terms that what he has said is unacceptable, why are you still endorsing him? >> well, it certainly isn't because donald trump is
enthusiastically supporting them. he told the washington post that he's "not quite there yet" on whether he'll endorse paul ryan in his primary election today. he also said he would not endorse john mccain. >> you know, never been a big fan of john mccain. i hate the way our veterans have been treated by john and other people. >> here is why paul ryan, mitch mcconnell and probably mccain will stick with him until the very bitter end. when a new politician comes out of nowhere, establishment politicians take notice. this happened in 1992 with ross pe r perot. and he was explaining the importance of the deficit and he soared so high in polls that he was actually in the lead in the spring of 1992.
he ended the race with 19% of the vote, which was huge. bill clinton was elected in that three-way race with only 43% of the vote. from that point forward, every democrat and republican wanted to know how to appeal to perot voters after that campaign, i saw ross perot coming out of private meetings with the democratic speaker of the house and democratic majority of the leader of the senate who were eagerly trying to figure out how their party could appear to perot voters. he then had meetings with the republican senator. donald trump is the new candidate from out of nowhere who has excited passions that republican leadership must pay attention to because it will be impossible, just mathematically impossible for republicans to control the house or the senate without trump voters. if passionate trump voters, the ones who love donald trump the most turn away from the
republican party because the republican party turns away from trump, republicans will be one election away from losing control of the house and senate. and so paul ryan and mitch mcconnell will continue to do the only thing they know how to do to hold on to control of congress. and that is to never, never abandon donald trump. they will continue to issue statements disagreeing with trump when they have to, as they did when donald trump attacked the khan family. but those will be weak statements that never mention donald trump's name and never specifically repute him. they both seek know mathematical choice of retaining control of congress and nothing is more important to them. joining us now, david, associate ed tore after the washington post and author of six best selling political books,
including the "clinton enigma" jay in am in milwaukee. david, this situation is something we've never seen before and you take the long historical view of these kind of things. do you see any other option, any other political option for speaker ryan or mitch mcconnell at this point? >> well, they always have the option of being profiles encourage. that should be an option for any politician. you might be right in your argument, it could also be true that if they stick with trump, they go down the tubes with him, eventually, or sooner rather than later. so i think that, from the very beginning, they've had a very bad set of choices here. looking at the long view of donald trump, you know, every
politician that i've ever studied is a narcissist to some extent and has a huge ego. but donald trump, there are no -- there are no equivalents in any way. every equivalency is a fall equivalency when i characteristics. >> you've written about life in the oval office. how would you imagine donald trump operating in the oval office? >> i don't know that he can imagine it. i remember once when i was covering jessie jackson and i asked him, what are your first 1 hyundais going to be like? he pulled his hat over his head and started laughing. i think that's the way a lot of the media and the public feels about imagining donald trump in the oval office. i think -- it's a dangerous thing to contemplate. >> charlie sykes, take us inside this drama now with donald trump and speaker ryan. you're out there at speaker
ryan's district. and here you have donald trump saying very friendly things about the tea party challenger to paul ryan in the primary election next week. donald trump saying, i don't know i'll endorse him. and, you know, there's always something in these weird scenarios where you want to see the other part of the story and it would be so fascinating to see a president trump dealing with a speaker, paul ryan, after the way candidate trump has dealt with speaker paul ryan. >> oh, yeah. you know, one of david's books, one of my favorite books that he wrote was called "when pride still mattered about the green bay packers kwtsz i guess paul ryan has had to ask himself. does pride still matter? and how much are you going to swallow. how much are you going to kiss the rod here. and, you know, i tend to agree politically with your analysis, except for one thing, that you identify the first part of your show is that donald trump is not
a normal candidate. and i think that the discussion that you had and some of the comments that president obama made are important. one of the mistakes we made is trying to think about donald trump as a normal candidate. we normalized him when he's anything but normal. do those normal cal lculations apply? paul ryan and mccain are dundment tally decent human beings. what they're yolked to and what they have to put up with may bring them to the breaking point. i just don't know. i think they have to ask themselves, what profits of the main to gain the whole world if he loses his soul, for donald trump, really. >> david mairs, he has under financed campaign. it turns out he cannot afford president usual campaign the way he claimed he could. and here you see meg whitman not just saying i'm going to vote for hillary clinton.
she's going to do everything she can, including big fund-raising help for the clinton campaign. this, again, is one of those moments where she's showing absolutely no hesitation about jumping across the aisle to hillary clinton. >> you've seen more of that this week than ever before. i think you'll see more even next week. but from the very beginning, it's been a total mismatch in terms of organization and fund-raising and just knowing how to run a campaign. the trump barely has a campaign. you know, as you pointed out earlier, many people on his staff are quote/unquote suicidal. there's no match there. and as you've seen this week with first of congressman and then one of ws assistant and now meg whitman i think there's some momentum building to un -- derail donald trump. >> charlie sykes for paul ryan again, in his district what
would it cost him, in his district, to turn against donald trump now? >> actually, very little. he won't do it between now and tuesday. he's got about an 84% approval rating among likely republican voters. he lost the first congressional district 19 points. what i think will happen is after tuesday, maybe, i'm hoping, maybe this is the -- we're experience, that he will feel a little bit liberated to take a step back and say we've been rationalizing is this guy going to change, grow, better. the reality is he's not getting any better. it's getting uglier and this is who he is. they have to decide whether or not they're going to continue to rationalize this. paul ryan should win. he should win with at least 70% of the voetd and i think that would be a striking result. >> i'm writing that down right here, charlie.
>> go ahead. >> one of the lies donald trump told today to my newspaper was that paul ryan asked for his endorsement, which, of course, he did not. >> charlie sykes and david, thank you both for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> thank you. up next, report tonight that the trump campaign staff is, and this is the word "suicidal." poor mouth breather.
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breaking campaign news tonight, meg whitman the former ceo tells the "new york times" she will back hillary clinton and work to get her friends to vote for hillary clinton. there's also breaking news about what appears to be chaos in the trump war room now. cnbc's john har wood reported this. long time ally of paul manafort. trump's campaign manager manafort not challenging trump any more. mailing it in. staff suicidal. >> joining us now chief correspondent and reporter for the "new york times." suicidal was used figuratively, right. . i want to calm everyone down. and so we're getting additional reporting tonight from trump campaign, said trump campaign source, in reax to this meeting in reaction to your report,
tells me it's all true and way worse than people realize. what do we need to know about this? >> well, as you know, lawrence, whatever a campaign is going badly and things are going very badly for donald trump right now, you have strings within the staff and between the -- strains within the staff and depending on who is messing up in what way. this is unusual because donald trump has such singular control over the daily message of the campaign and resists being managed. there was a thought that after the primary ries and headed int the entirely different ball game, he was going to become a more normal candidate. his first campaign manager brought in paul manafort who has done this before, veteran manager on a national basis of republican campaigns. and it simply has not looked like a traditional republican campaign with a candidate, you know, picking needless fights
with people that it's only a loser for him to pick fights with and so it's not surprising to me that people are frustrated and, you know, along with the frustration, there's a bit of butt covering by people in the campaign saying that's not what i did, it's what the candidate did or what another staffer did. >> it's usually this stuff doesn't happen until the other campaign opens up a big very lead in the polls. right now hillary clinton's got a lead going in the poll, it's not the kind of lead that make people's panic. >> true, she went into the conventions with a solid lead, not a wide lead. his convention was not terribly effective. her campaign was -- her convention was extremely effective and then what you've seen since then out of the chute, the first polling, and we take these with a grain of salt, polling right after a big event, you can't always rely on that. nevertheless it's all been in one direction and pretty
substantially and then when you follow that up with this, having a fight with the gold star family, with going after john mccain and paul ryan today, things that serve no purpose to benefit the campaign, it is not surprising that people are jumping ship from meg whitman to the congressman, to a couple of staffers, sally bradshaw who are prominent republican campaign circles. they bolted and people are starting to feel like, well, is this just about trump or is this going to hurt the party as a whole and what do i do to protect myself. >> thank you. coming up, those great trump kids, remember how great everyone covering the convention said that they were. not so sure about that. they might not be quite as great as some people seem to think. t you're really made of. after five hours of spinning
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evidence of that. none of them have achieved anything that wasn't by supported by their father's money and none of them seem to show any interest in anything other than accumulating more money, just like their dad. when they travel to parts of the world where bill gates, the richest man in the world has devoted himself to giving back by helping improve living conditions for people who have experienced generations of depravatio depravations. the trump sons spend their time killing the local wild life. one of the animals went to defend his father's comment that if his bother encountered sexual harassment in the workplace, she would find another job. just quit and walk away and find another job, you know, finding another job is always that easy. this morning, eric trump explained his father's response this way.
>> what you're saying, she's a strong, you know, powerful woman. she wouldn't allow herself to be objected to it. by the way you should take it up with human resources and she would as a strong person. at the same time i don't think she would allow herself to be subjected to that and i think that's the point he was making and i think he did so well. >> and there you hear what sounds like the thinking of a thoroughly spoiled brat who works in daddy's workplace and believes that women are subjected to sexual harassment in the workplace because they are not strong like his sister. the trump family belief seems to be that strong, powerful women do not allow themselves to be subjected to sexual harassment that it is the woman's choice to allow sexual harassment to be heaped upon them in the workplace and that strong and powerful women that eric trump was talking about, the one he was talking about there, his sister, has not found the strength or the power to come forward and say, that's not
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>> you hear the whole mental health thing, the whole mental health thing and it was all is solved by the fact that i'm not wearing a tie. one year ago i came on this show wearing a trump tie. >> yes you did. >> the first statement i made about trump as president. i made it right on this. the show did a lot for me. we worked together. i don't think he should be payment. and then he did stuff that should be classified as bug nutty. he attacked carpy trash, a las vegas musician. >> they use to called that punching down. >> it's just insane. >> i'm going to do a magic trick while you're talking. i'm going to make one book stand on top of the other and see if that -- well, it's, you know, anchorman not very good at it. trump's mental health which was the first subject under discussion here today. can you contribute anything
having spent endless hours with him in the board room? >> bug nutty. >> that's the official diagnosis from the board room? >> he's fine in the board room. this is the thing that no one is saying that the skills are not transferable. celebrity apprentice a guy who is volatile, capricious, random, that's terrific for reality television. he should have never gone into politics that's true for a lot of people who are very good at their jobs. you don't want to move him into -- which i think is very serious job, president of the united states. >> very serious. >> i want today go out on the limb here. >> he's crazy. >> by the way, it was a fake board room? >> yes. >> and he didn't have a job to offer me. well -- years ago he had a showroom that he went bankrupt. he had no job to offer me and i have a successful career that my father did not give me and has
not gone bankrupt. >> we're going to do facebook live. >> i'll do more magic tricks like this. >> that was awful. >> we'll be right back. >> you're in this book, by the way. >> i am? >> yes. >> it's amazing. this is humira helping me go further. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. doctors have been prescribing humira for over 13 years. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection.
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to watch the facebook live thing. i don't know. there's some stuff on the prompter. and chris hayes. >> yes, as always chris hayes is up next. . >> tonight on all in. >> i think the republican nominee is unfit republican support for trump. >> there has to come a point at which you say, enough. >> his question for gop leadership. >> why are you still endorsing him? >> this as trump openly hoped for the economy to go down the tubes quickly. >> the numbers are getting worse and worse all the time. if they get real bad, i hope it happens fast, so they'll all blame me. >> plus, trump's son and daughter on sexual harassment. >> ivanka is a strong woman, i don't think she would allow herself to be subjected to that. >> don't worry about that baby. i love babies. actually, i was only kidding.