tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC August 3, 2016 12:00am-1:01am PDT
nominee is unfit to serve as president. >> -- president obama lambastes republican support for trump. >> there has to come a point at which you say, enough. >> his question for gop leadership. >> why are you still endorsing him? >> this as trump openly hoped for the economy to go down the tubes quickly. >> the numbers are getting worse and worse all the time. if they get real bad, i hope it happens fast, so they'll all blame me. >> plus, trump's son and daughter on sexual harassment. >> ivanka is a strong woman, i don't think she would allow herself to be subjected to that. >> don't worry about that baby. i love babies. actually, i was only kidding. you can get the baby out of here. >> when "all in" starts right now. >> i think she might believe me that i love having a baby crying while i'm speaking. >> good evening from new york,
i'm chris hayes. it's trump against a gold star family. trump against obama, trump against his own party. or just another day on the trail here in 98 days from the 2016 election. trump's feud with the chaun family, the muslim american parents of an army captain killed while serving in iraq is the latest outrage to bring condemnation from paul ryan, mitch mcconnell and most forcefully senator john mccain. but just as with trump's proposed muslim ban, his star of david tweet, his attacks on the ethnicity of judge gonzalo curiel, and countless other controversies, top republicans have stopped short of withdrawing support for their party's nominee. today in a press conference with the president of singapore, president obama had a message for those republican leaders. >> the question, i think, that they have to ask themselves is, if you are repeatedly having to say, in very strong terms, that
what he has said is unacceptable, why are you still endorsing him? what does this say about your party, that this is your standard bearer? there has to be a point at which you say, this is not somebody i can support for president of the united states. even if he purports to be a member of my party. and you know, the fact that that has not yet happened makes some of these denunciations ring hollow. >> calling donald trump woefully unprepared and unfit for the presidency, president obama argued the stakes of this election go far beyond partisan politics. >> this is different than just having policy disagreements. i think i was right and mitt romney and john mccain were wrong on certain policy issues, but i never thought they
couldn't do the job. and had they won, i would have been disappointed, but i would have said to all americans, this is our president and i know they're going to abide by certain norms and rules and common sense, will observe basic decency, will have enough knowledge about economic policy and foreign policy, and our constitutional traditions and rule of law, that our government will work. but that's not the situation here. and that's not just my opinion. that is the opinion of many prominent republicans. there has to come a point at which you say, enough. >> trump responded with a
statement calling president obama, quote, a failed leader who along with the secretary of state clinton created a foreign policy that has destiblized the world and made it unsafe. he's the one who is unfit to be president and hillary clinton is equally unfit. trump's attacks on the khan family come at a critical juncture. recent polls showing hillary clinton with a sizeable bounce after the democratic convention. the latest poll puts her eight points ahead of trump, up from just one point a week ago. according to the hill, the trump campaign e-mailed surrogates this week calling for an urgent pivot away from the khan controversy. reuters reports the trump backers asked capitol hill to put out statements showing their support. it appears no such support was forth coming. today two of trump's surrogates distanced themselves from his comments about the khan family. >> it's just inappropriate for us in this context to be criticizing them and i'm not going to participate in that. >> i think it could have been
handled better. i think he knows that. my advice to donald would be very simple. i'll tell you the advice i would give him. you have one person to attack, hillary clinton. >> today, representative richard hana of new york, became the first sitting gop congressman to endorse hillary clinton to, quote, being a good american who loves his country is far more important than parties. hana is a realliative moderate who faces no political consequences as he's set to retire at the end of the year. meanwhile, in an interview with "the washington post," trump refused to support paul ryan and john mccain in their upcoming primaries. joining me now, a republican from texas who has endorsed donald trump. congressman, let me ask, do you want to take back your endorsement of donald trump, or are you still sticking with that? >> i'm still on the trump train. >> what do you think of the way that he's attacked the khan family?
do you agree with medal of honor winner dakota meyer who says trump owes them an apology? >> i think it's really tough being in donald trump's shoes, when you've got the media looking to put the worst possible spin to everything that you say. >> wait, are -- >> donald trump has said he honors the service of the khans. >> he also offers if the man who gave his life in iraq was instructed or not allowed to say anything. what do you think of that? >> that was donald trump speculating and there are a lot of folks within the republican party would love it if he would stick to the script. but the american people are tired of the focus group tested platitudes we hear from the clinton campaign. >> when he says about a mother who stood on stage, later explaining that she's so grief-stricken at images of her son, she couldn't bring herself to speak and implies that the woman has been instructed not to
speak, do you think that's decent on the part of donald trump? >> again, i don't think you can pick someone's motivations and know what's in someone's head -- >> congressman, what would it take? presumably i'm going to assume there's some set of pronouncements from your party's nominee, some set of policy proposals that would cause you to rescind your endorsement. would you agree with that? there's a hypothetical set of things that would make you reskinned your endorsement. do you agree with that? >> sure. anything could happen. but right now, you've got donald trump versus hillary clinton and it's a real clear choice. >> could you provide me with an example of what kind of thing would be in that category? because what's confuing to a lot of people from the president on down, what it would take for a republican such as yourself to rescind your support for him?
>> you could come up with hundreds of things that he could do, but, again, he hasn't done them yet. and everything that you and the media are blowing out of proportion, it's tough. listen, i've been out on the campaign trail following it. and donald trump has every major network looking to put the worst possible spin on every word that comes out of his mouth. and he's going to speak from the heart and not read canned speeches. >> do you think the medal of honor winner who called on him to apologize was blowing it out of proportion? >> again, i think a lot of these calls are being fed by you guys' spin. go look at the actual spin. it's not as bad as press reports make it look. >> so you're just going to stick with this the next 98 days and basically wherever this train goes, through whoever biggoted muck it may travel, you're on the train?
>> the train could get derailed, but it hasn't yet. and i think it's going to take a lot to make hillary clinton a person who tells lies to cover up her lies look better than donald trump, a man who speaks from his heart. >> so far he's doing it. congressman, thank you very much. i'm joined now by republican strategist rick wilson, who i should say, strongly opposes donald trump. i mean, i guess there's nothing. i have to say, like today -- first, let's start with this. forget all the khan family stuff, anyone with a basic sense of decency can understand why it's indecent. forget the politics of it. trump today trolling paul ryan, playing footcy on twitter, talking about ryan, i'm just not quite there yet, not there yet, spitting back in his face the phrasing that paul ryan used in his dithering over whether to
endorse trump. what do you make of that? >> this is a guy who's vengeful and petty and small. it should remind republicans that this isn't a republican nominee. this is a virus that has infected the republican party. and he's eating the host from the inside out. he will never be a transactional person. he will never have any of the things you do in politics to build your party, build your movement, et cetera. it's all trump. this is only about him. this is only about his ego and his gratification of his little revenge fantasies. and today with john mccain and paul ryan both, who swallowed an enormous river of bile for this guy, and have defended him over and over again, you know, i can't wait for both of those gentlemen to be past their primaries. because while it sucks they can't say what's in their hearts, they're both in contested primaries right now, and you get this political
imperative underneath it. on the other side of it, donald trump's pivot to the general election is still mostly about slamming his fellow republicans. it's a mystery. >> here's what's so striking to me. again, we're in the realm of -- we're so far from the realm of policy at this point. aside from things like the muslim ban. like what would he do on day one. we're in this sort of bizarre nether world of kind of arm chair psychology. you know, every single person that has come into his orbit have walked away diminished, with their dignity essentially eaten. it doesn't seem accidental. this is the m.o. of this guy. and if for no other reason of the self-preservation of dignity, you think more people would take the ted cruz route, having witnessed that. >> you look at a guy like chris christie, when donald trump said, go fetch your shine box, chris christie tugged his
forelock and said yes, mr. trump. he abased himself in ways that you would normally have to pay a professional to do. this is a guy who revels in humiliating his vanquished opponents, who revels in rubbing it in your face after he's beaten you, or if he perceives himself to be in a superior position. you don't build a team like that, you don't broaden your appeal like that. this guy is playing out bizarre revenge fantasies against people that ran against him. it's always on the tip of his tongue to go after jeb or marco or cruz or anyone else who slighted him at any point. >> if you sit and watch his campaign events day after day, there's a long rift in which he relives the primary. like a big chunk of the stump speech, just getting himself worked up over that. rick, thank you for the time. appreciate it. joining me now, reporter from "the daily beast" and "washington post." the richard hana news doesn't
strike me as a particularly big deal. former staffer of jeb bush, and close staffer of chris christie who have come out and said not only am i not going to vote for the guy, i'm going to vote for hillary clinton. what are the conversations on capitol hill and professional republicans like around this topic? >> it's a particular type of republican who at this moment is migrating away, rushing away from donald trump. i've seen this, especially with loyal, long-time republicans, mostly women. you look at sally bradshaw, the aide to jeb bush. maria camela, the former aide to new jersey governor christie, and you see a lot of republican women, and of course with hana, the new york congressman, really uncomfortable with trump. it's not an ideological discomfort, it's temperamental. >> there's some word now from how the nrcc, betsy, is going to handle this, or the group that
has to coordinate down-ballot, house congressional race. there's not a ton of vulnerable republicans. but a dozen in districts -- actually more than that if i run the tally in my head. what do those folks do? they cross their fingers and hope for the best. politico published a memo sent to these republicans and the line that stuck out to me, they said, if you supported trump in the past, but feel like you can't support him anymore, just own it. just come out and say it and be honest with it and take the hit. i think it's fascinating that a branch of the republican party is telling elected republicans that it's okay for them to disavow the republicans' presidential nominee. this is uncharted territory. i think it shows that a lot of republicans are looking for life boats at this point. >> do they think he can win? i mean, i think it's worse for them if he does.
if he wins, then he fundamentally and permanently transforms the republican party. if he loses, they can be like, okay, woo, that was embarrassing, let's get back to it. do they think he could win? >> they do think he could win. they think the political winds could be in his favor. the grassroots organization for trump is behind in many key states, battleground states, but because trump represents this pop lus movement that is almost non-partisan, if he can drive out white working class males, he could have this new coalition, and you mix that with skret clinton's also high negative numbers, there's maybe a brew for trump, but most people are skeptical. >> that's the case to be made, although i remain unpersuaded. we'll see, of course, as time goes on. if you could buy stock in a politician.
the one stock i think that's probably gone up highest in value since clothing in cleveland is not hillary clinton necessarily. it's ted cruz, betsy. and i think every day that goes by, what he did in that arena, looks more and more perceptive, just a sheer level of self-preservation while you watch everyone else abase themselves. >> i would say there are two counterpoints to that. ted cruz's numbers have taken a nose dive since that happened. back home in texas, things are not looking good for him. if you make your stock purchasing decisions based solely on that, cruz isn't the best pick. the other problem with cruz, with what he did in cleveland, he didn't oppose trump for the reasons that sally bradshaw and richard hana opposed trump. cruz said the reason he felt he could not support trump, particularly at the texas delegate breakfast was because trump went after his wife and his father. he made it clear it was personal, it wasn't about policy or perceived bigotry or temperament problems, that this
was something between him and trump. that said, lots of never trump folks will see cruz as the principled alternative going forward and other folks will be pretty skeptical. >> on the point you're making, it's a provocative one, maybe cruz had the best convention in that he's positioning himself for 2020. but that's a gamble. who's to say the republican party, whether trump wins or loses, is going to be reverting back to this ideological movement, conservativism? >> that's a great point. here's the one lesson i've learned cover the iraq war in 2003. you vote and you conduct yourself in politics, bent towards what the long-term first order judgment of what's best is, and not in short-term political gain. there are so many democrats who voted for that war, who had their careers practically destroyed by it, because people told them in the minute, in the moment, this is the way the polling goes. and if anyone has learned anything about that, it's probably hillary clinton who now
>> at my father's company, there are more female than male executives. as president, my father will change the labor laws that were put in place at a time when women were not a significant portion of the workforce. policies that allow women with children to thrive should not be novelties. they should be the norm. he will fight for equal pay for equal work, and i will fight for this too, right alongside of him. >> just two weeks ago at the republican national convention, ivanka trump put a feminist face on her father's campaign. a moment that feels -- one week
after calling ayles a good friend and personal friend, donald trump was asked, what if someone had treated ivanka in the way ayles allegedly behaved? >> i would like to think she would find another year or another company if that was the case. >> this morning trump's son attempted damage control and ended up making it worse. >> my father runs a company and that is an absolutely no-go anywhere. that's very much the case. ivanka is a strong, you know, powerful woman. she wouldn't allow herself to be objected to it. and you should certainly take it up with human resources. and i think she definitely would, as a strong person. at the same time, i don't think she would allow herself to be subjected to that. i think that's the point he was making and i think he did so well. >> after that, fox news anchor gretchen carlson whose lawsuit against ayles, tweeted --
and fascinatingly, megyn kelly, who has not commented at all about him, despite reports that she told investigators that roger ayles sexually harassed her, responded to eric trump's comments with one word. sigh. lisa, first, i want you to just react to -- your reaction to hearing this sort of idea which i think is very common place that fundamentally there's some problem with the woman at issue, if this kind of thing happens. >> well, it obviously happened to gretchen carlson. it probably happened to megyn kelly. it's happened to me. it's happened to the majority of working women. no matter how strong you are, no matter if you are a known sexual harassment attorney, as i have
been for many years, there's going to be that guy in power who's going to try to grope you, who's going to say something inappropriate. it's just a fact of life for working women, no matter how strong you are. and how dare anybody with the name of trump blame women for sexual harassment. thank god we have laws to protect us. i encourage donald trump and eric trump to read them. we don't have to leave our job, or our career. >> here is ivanka trump herself in her 2009 book. that type of thing has happened to me before, many times actually on my father's construction site, but in those cases, they never realized i was the boss's daughter when they started hooting and hollering. didn't much matter how i responded. so to your point, it can happen to anyone. >> absolutely. and it does. we have to stop focusing on the victims, who are men as well sometimes, i've represented them
too. we have to focus on perpetrator. roger ailes is getting a $40 million pay-off. my client has accused donald trump of sexual harassment since 1997. there was a settlement at that time that went all to her husband, for his company. she didn't get a dime. she's been asking for an apology, and she still hasn't gotten it. donald trump's son, trying to do damage control, has dug him in deeper. >> tell me how this works generally. people talk about hr, i think there's probably a lot of hesitancy to go forward, because there will be hassles or recriminations, once you enter the legal arena, how do these cases shake out? >> the best thing a sexually harassed worker can do is gather evidence, hold on to it, and document it.
put in writing what your compliant is, give it to hr and hold on to that. that protects you. the company has an obligation legally under title 7 and state laws to do a prompt, thorough investigation, punish the perpetrator and protect the victim. you cannot be retaliated against. and it certainly happens, people are fired, or lose their jobs. definitely see a lawyer. now you have two claims, your original sexual harassment claim and a retaliation claim, which often is the stronger claim and there are a lot of lawyers who will be happy to represent you in that. >> thank you, lisa. >> thank you. trump's last ten list. a running tally that literally had any other candidate said or done, it would have ended their campaign. it's just 24 hours old, but it's already outdated. we have more things to add right after this short break.
>> last night we gave you an update on a segment we like to call trump's last ten. a running tally of things that had any other candidate said or done them, probably would end their campaign, but not donald trump. we had to wipe out our previous board, erase it clean and replace it all the new controversies trump has brought on himself the week of the convention. now we are in full general election mode, this list is already out of date. so let's a moment to remember some of the stories. number eight, trump suggesting u.s. military support for nato members should be conditional on whether they met their financial obligations to the alliance. number nine, a trump adviser who
is saying that hillary clinton should be shot for treason for mishandling e-mails. we now bid those controversies goodbye to make room for three new ones since yesterday. our new number three, trump said in his daughter was harassed at work, i'd like to think she would find another career or company. number two, after a recipient for the purple heart medal gave a copy of his medal to trump at a rally, the republican presidential nominee, who received five draft deferments, said, i always wanted to get the purple heart, this was much easier. finally our new number one, trump seemed to root for the economy to tank. i hope it happens fast. and if it does, he'll make sure to blame the democrats. >> because the numbers are getting worse and worse all the time. if they get real bad, i hope it
she said, well, no lawyer would let somebody release a tax return when they're under audit. it's a routine audit. i've gone through audits, which i think is very unfair, for 15 years. i have friends who are very rich who have never gotten audited. i'm audited every year. maybe that's because of politics, who knows. >> most presidential hopefuls release their tax returns by the time they're nominated. not donald trump. candidates are not legally obligated to release tax returns. trump's refusal goes against long standing precedent in the interest of transparency. he's now citing an audit as the latest reason as to why he's not releasing his tax returns anytime soon. although as "the washington post" points out, richard nixon did so in the middle of an audit. billionaire investor warren buffett called trump out on it.
>> i've got news for him. i'm under audit too. and i would be delighted to meet him anyplace, anytime, between now and election, i'll bring my tax return, he can bring his tax return. nobody's going to arrest us. there are no rules against showing your tax returns. and just let people ask us questions about the items that are on there. [ cheers and applause ] >> how many of you would be afraid to have your tax return made public? you're only afraid if you got something to be afraid about. >> joining me now, david k. johnson, author of "the making of donald trump." it's out today. you've written this book in the last 15 hours. not sure how this happened. all right, first of all, let's start with the basic factual stipulation. you've covered taxes for 20-plus years.
that is the case. >> and i'm not a lawyer. >> so you could release -- there's no reason -- >> not only could you do it. but take him at his word. he doesn't want to release the returns under audit. that's 2012 forward. let's see your returns from 2011 back to 1980. hillary clinton's returns are all available, back to the '70s. there's no reason for donald not to release the returns, by his own standard, that are no longer under audit. >> one of the reasons i wanted to have you on. he says so many outrageous, offensive things. ultimately he's a guy with no public service record to look at. >> right. >> all he's got in the record in private business. and there's very little documentation about that in some ways. this is the way that you would get some sense of the guy's dealings. how good or bad he is, right? >> ask hillary clinton about
when i reverse engineered her tax returns and how furious she was. i showed that they paid more than twice as much federal income tax, as needed. i can tell you a lot if we had donald trump's tax returns. i could tell you how wealthy he is from the value of the buildings and the depreciation. but donald has a long history, and i go through this in "the making of donald trump," of using two sets of numbers. he claims his golf course in los angeles is worth over a quarter of a billion dollars and tells the property tax officials, it's worth ten. his golf course in westchester wount county, it's worth over 10, for tax purposes, it's worth 1.4. a number of the columns i've written at "the daily beast" the national memo and other places,
they've shown that there's tremendously strong evidence of tax cheating by donald. i can give you the best example of this. in 1984, the city and state of new york odditied his tax returns. he field a schedule c, what freelancers file. no revenue, zero revenue. over $600,000 in deductions. i know you'll be shocked to hear the auditor say, we'd like documentation for this. he had none. he still ordered an appeal. his long-time tax lawyer testifies and when he's shown the new york city return, he goes, well, that's my signature on the photocopy, but i didn't prepare that document. well, the only other person who could have done that would be donald trump. >> wow. >> and my first national investigative reporting award 40 years ago was catching somebody who used a photocopier to put their name on someone else's medical records. donald participated in the empty box scheme, he didn't get indicted or he would have lost
his casino license. all of the money coming out of kazakhstan and other former parts of the soviet empire to his businesses, which one of his sons has acknowledged. and all of his tramps with the son of the reputed mob boss here in new york city, a violent convicted felon, who took the broken stem of a margarita glass and plunged it into a guy's face, took 110 stitches. ran a $40 million stock swindle for two crime families. i have photos and video. he was with them in colorado, arizona, florida, and new york. he -- >> point being and i want to be clear. i don't want to cast aspersions. a number of questions have been raised about where had his money is coming from.
who does the future president of the country owe money to? who they're on the hook to. all of that would be answered in tax returns, which in some ways become more important with this candidate than ever before. >> particularly if he owes money to people who are connected to vladimir putin. that should be very, very troublesome. we need to see his tax returns. absolutely need to see them. >> thank you for stopping by today. still to come, it's donald trump versus a baby. no, you didn't mishear me. the tape you do not want to miss. that's just ahead. don't go away. (lock clicks)
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(laughing) call now for your free information and free gift. (soft music) ♪ (colonial penn jingle) thing 1 tonight, donald trump is obviously not the typical candidate, doesn't follow all the rules and social niceties of average politicians. but some things are unavoidable for a person running for office. like the classic kissing babies routine. here he is last week, holding two babies at once. how sweet. here's another shot of that a few moments later. listen, babies are hard, they cry. although check out that swift handoff. but today, he had a true politician's test.
a crying baby during his stump speech. take a look. skpnkts i'm very close to china. i have the biggest bank in the world as a tenant of mine. don't worry about that baby. i love babies. i like it. what a beautiful baby. don't worry, don't worry. the mom's running around, like, don't worry about it, you know. it's young and beautiful and healthy, and that's what we want. >> well handled, sir. in case you missed it, his response even inspired chants of "moms for trump." you may be thinking, is there anything more to the tape? of course there is. and that's thing 2, in just 60 seconds.
i hear that baby crying, i like it. i like it! what a baby. what a beautiful baby. don't worry. >> pretty gracious of trump, right? that is until his patience for that baby ran out, exactly 53 seconds later. >> they have ripped us to shreds. ripped us absolutely to shreds. actually, i was only kidding. you can get the baby out of here. that's all right. don't worry. i think she really believed me that i love having a baby crying while i'm speaking. that's okay. people don't understand. that's okay. >> two things, that's actually kinda funny and also, babies are hard, although that definitely could have gone worse. >> all right, get him out, get him out. >> knock the crap out of him, would you? seriously. >> like to punch him in the face, i'll tell you upon. face, i'll tell ya.
so when donald trump's nomination began to look like a real possibility, a number of conservatives began to rally behind the never trump movement. it was around that time they started posing the question to myself and friends, how would i or other people react if democrats had nominated a temperamentally unfit, uncoherent candidate with no electoral experience as their party's standard bearer. it's a hard thing not to speak about considering the current president is opening call for republicans to withdraw their support for trump. ross dugoutit tweeted, imagine a race where the choices were -- and today slate said, imagine if sean pen were the democratic nominee, would you willingly cede the white to ted cruz if it meant keeping sean penn away from the levers of power? would you vote for cruz just to stop penn. analysts say it would be better for mitt romney or john kasich.
could have guessed by this moment, i have decided, in 2020, to run for president. >> kanye west announcing his 2020 campaign. josh barrow, senior editor and msnbc contributor, and sam seared, also an msnbc contributor. you're all worked up about this experiment. which i think there's a kernel of something useful for liberals and anyone with die-hard politics. the what if democrats had their own trump thing. >> yeah, i guess my point is, it makes more sense to say, what if democrats had trump, not even their own trump. because it shows just how absurd the idea is. i mean, it's not like donald trump parachuted in and all of a sudden won the lottery and that's how he became the nominee. there's something uniquely problematic about the republican base that elected donald trump their nominee.
and there is no analog on the democratic side. any problem that you can find with donald trump that is shared widely is something that is unique to the republican party. and that's why we see, the needle has not moved on donald trump in terms of what i've said in the past, is the normal electorate. it's a uniquely republican phenomena. >> i think there are two separate questions here. one s would democrats nominate someone like this? i think it's true the democratic party is more resilient than the republican party. there was an insurgent in the democratic party that got put down. bernie sanders was a much less ridiculous person than donald trump and even he was not able to overcome the establishment candidate. i think the second question is, what would democrats do if they ended up in this situation? i think the incentive that republicans are facing, if they decide to fight each other during the general election, they're all going to die fiery political deaths and lose their re-election races for congress, those incentives would apply.
i think there would be pressure to line up behind a terrible candidate. and alex braceon, congressman from florida, who is trying to run for the senate, who seems pretty mentally unstable, and he's in a primary they think he's going to lose, but he's the sort of person, if he were to get the democratic nomination, that's who you would have to think about. would democrats say this person is responsible enough to have his fing or the nuclear button? >> let me say this about grayson. because of his -- both his stances on progressive issues, which he's been a stalwart progressive, and because he likes to fight with republicans, very flamboyant fashion, has been beloved by a certain part of the democratic base. the allegations from his ex-wife, for 20 years, he repeatedly abused her. immediately, the two groups who endorsed him, rescinded their endorsements, which is precisely
the check on this behavior which was in every way lacking, which speaks to your point about the asymmetry. >> i don't think grayson is analogous to donald trump. the problem people have with donald trump is not necessarily that he's a bad person at home. it is, the guy is completely devoid of policy. every single thing that you would want from a candidate, from a president, this guy lacks. alan grayson may be, as you claim, mentally unstable, or have other issues, but i think, this is a guy who could actually >> the other thing, he served in congress. it's more like the ted cruz thing. the reason i find it destructive it, watching all this, i said at the top of the show, it reminds me of iraq back in 2003. watching these people make these short-term political calculations that are so obviously the wrong calculation on the substance and merit of
the thing, thinking that they're going to get over for the next three months. they're going to get over, they're going to sort of duck underneath the wave and they're going to survive, not realizing that that's not the way it works. >> my final point is, to even propose this thought experiment is to delude one self that there isn't a problem with the republican base. the republican paul ryan and mcconnell are making these decisions is not because they're not sure what it would look like in five years. they're afraid of their voters today. that's why they're making those decisions. that's what being ignored, is there something uniquely problematic with the republicans? >> paul ryan's district is not as republican as you might think. so if he broke with donald trump, he would have real risk of losing the general election to a democrat. so paul ryan has not been a profile in courage. i wish he had stood up to donald trump, but he faces strong incentives to do what he did, and i think a lot of people would make the moral failure to paul ryan has made there. i think a lot of us would step back and wonder if we would rise to the occasion.
>> i'm not judging his morality. i'm saying the incentive structure is the problem. >> right. the other thing i'll say, there's this broader problem of what facts people find credible. back to the grayson thing, the response of the people on the left wasn't, that's made up. it's all a conspiracy. when you get rid of it the structure of belief in the way that has been laid waste to on the right for 30 years, you can forgive anything. because anything can be a conspiracy, anything can be the hatchet of the people trying to get them. and you never have to do with any first order issues because you can explain them all way. josh, sam, thank you for joining us. that's "all in" for this evening. rachel maddow starts now. >> thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. in the presidential election of 2008, president obama beat john mccain pretty badly. obama beat mccain more than 2-1
in the electoral college. obama that year, he won indiana. he won north carolina. he even won an electoral vote in nebraska. obama v. mccain was not a landslide, ala lbj in 1964, or ronald reagan, 1984. but obama beat mccain pretty soundly. much worse than people expected heading into that election. election night 2008 was on november 4th. and then 2 1/2 months later, the end of january, 2009, it was time for george w. bush to leave office. it was time for barack obama to be sworn in as the next president of the united states. and you know what barack obama did on the last night before he became president, the last night before his inauguration in 2009? he spent that final night before his inauguration at a black tie