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tv   The Place for Politics 2016  MSNBC  August 16, 2016 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT

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man. and he gets caught every day. gary, casper, thank you very much. thank you for joining us and staying through that thank you, lawrence. have a very good night. i'm ari melber broadcasting here from our world headquarters. 11:00 p.m. in new york, 8:00 p.m. on the west coast. donald trump, as you may have seen, wrapped up his speech in west bend, wisconsin. he was scheduled to hold that rally late this afternoon. the campaign announced it would be a special address on law and order. the speech was located though not in milwaukee as trump seemed to suggest at times, but 40 miles away in west bend. here's what was said moments ago. >> just like hillary clinton is
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against the miners, she is against the police. believe me. you know it and i know it and guess what. she knows it. those peddling the narrative of cops as a racist force in our society, a narrative supported with a nod by my opponent, shared directly in the responsibility for the unrest in milwaukee and many other places within our country. [ cheering and applause ] >> they have fostered the dangerous anti-police atmosphere in america and all throughout america. >> just in that short excerpt we're playing for you, i have three explosive charges from trump saying his opponent hillary clinton is anti-police. he didn't give evidence for that, saying that she, quote, nodded toward racist depictions
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of police. a very specific charge. and then thirdly, perhaps the most charged given the violence and unrest, he said she was in effect in directindirectly or p responsible for that violence. we're going to show you the appeal donald trump made to african-americans if we have any of that sound. >> the democratic party has taken the votes of african-americans for granted. they've just assumed they'll get your support and done nothing in return for it. they've taken advantage of the african-american citizen. it's time to give the democrats some competition for these votes, and it is time to rebuild the inner cities of america and to reject the failed leadership of a rigged political system. >> that was the argument from donald trump. as you may have heard just moments ago on lawrence
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o'donnell's show, he was making that argument in west bend. now that is significant here because it was billed as this certain type of speech. an interesting choice to be clear for a speech that was directly bringing up race. one political reporter already pointed this out online. according to the census bureau, west bend, wisconsin, is 95% white. i want to get to our panel here. mark thompson, liz smith, and katy packard. thank you so everyone. mark, i'll start with you. your thoughts on this address. i know you watched the entire thing for us here in the newsroom and particularly on the geography, at times donald trump made it sound that he was addressing the inner city, that he was addressing black voters. there's a big difference between west bend and milwaukee. you don't even get away with
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saying you're in harlem if you're in the upper west side around here and that's a lot less than 40 miles. >> you're absolutely right. thank you for having me, ari. west bend is an hour from milwaukee. if he was concerned about the african-american community, he should have gone into the african-american community and heard some of the concerns about what was going on. it sounded as if david clark wrote his speech because he's been saying that on "hannity" and fox business and elsewhere. same old cliches. it's the same cliche we've always heard. the democratic party takes african-americans for granted. the democratic party hasn't done anything for african-americans. but what has the republican party done? to use the term looters as a generalization, to talk about hating the police, to call people in general violent,
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that's not speaking out to african-americans. he had a chance to do that. i was in cincinnati. he was invited to come speak at the naacp convention in close proximity to cleveland and he won't go. >> my feelings are hurt. i mean, this is a guy whose wealth was built on his father's discriminatory rental practices. >> that's right. >> has he ever even made a building with housing for working people with affordable housing? has he done anything on that level to help improve lives, because that's part of what goes on in communities where there are these kind of incidents with police and there's poverty. it is not just police hating and drugs. he just loved african-americans together and just painted this chocolate city version of hell. >> and you raise an important point, both of you, which is he
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speaking to african-american voters in theory, because not obviously in practice based on the data in the region, or is he talking about african-american to appeal to different voters, which is a political question for you, liz. i want to play him discussing that in the context of saying hillary clinton picks the wrong sides in these battles. take a listen. >> my opponent, hillary, would rather protect the offender than the victim. big problem in our society. hillary clinton backed policies are responsible for the problems in the inner cities today and a vote for her is a vote for another generation of poverty, high crime, and lost opportunities. i care too much about my country to let this happen. >> that kind of rhetoric we know is fairly effective in a small voter turnout republican primary because it is gospel that hillary clinton is to blame for
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a whole host of things. with this as a general election strategy, looking to you as someone who has run democratic campaigns, does this work the same way to a general election audience? >> no, i don't think it does. what i think that rhetoric showed is i would love to see donald trump go and speak directly to the black community. i don't think he ever will. his rhetoric tonight made me very glad he didn't go to the city of milwaukee, which is facing a lot, which is sort of a microcosm for a lot of the unrest we're facing. the last thing we need is him going out there and stoke these divisions and saying somehow democrats are anti-law enforcement and somehow pit communities of color against the law enforcement community. what we need are voices of calm, voices like president obama's. president obama is out there saying, you know what? black lives matter. we also need to respect law enforcement and the hard job they have to do, and we have to figure out ways to reform policing to bring our
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communities together. you know what? donald trump didn't talk about one reform he would make to improve policing. the ferguson report came out with very comprehensive reforms that, oh, i think only nine out of 17,000 police districts -- >> i think you raise an important point. there's a rich discussion around policing. not all the issues are automatically ideological or partisan. he did say he wanted to support more police officers. unless you want to do the cops program, which was started under president clinton in 1994, you're not going to have a lot of federal funding. if you do, that is still federal tax dollars. congress says leave that to the states. katy, i want to bring you in and throw onre piece of data at you. among african-americans in the poll, hillary clinton 91%,
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donald trump 1%, katy. >> well, you know, this is a perfect example of a donald trump speech that is very light on policy and very heavy on bumper sticker slogans. he had a great opportunity last week to go to my hometown of detroit, michigan, and have a very substantive conversation about the plight of the inner city in this country and to look at the things that are starting to work in a city like that. without a doubt, there is a lot to criticize about democrat policies and democratic leaders who have failed the inner city and the african-american community, but donald trump speaking about it in bumper sticker slogans without offering policy, what he's going to do to change life for the african-american community or for the inner city residents of this country, just isn't the
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answer. i don't think the african-american voters he seemed to be trying to target are buying it. >> i agree. i don't think that he's making any appeal. he definitely didn't make an appeal tonight. it was a little bit schizophrenic and paradoxical to be in that environment and talk about assaults on police and talk about crime and blame it on the democratic party and the african-american community and hillary clinton and everybody and then say i want the african-american vote. >> coming from where? based on what? i agree with you. he showed absolutely no evidence at all of even being interested. it was almost like watching a drunk phone call. that's what it is like when you see him. sometimes when he's on the teleprompter and it is more constructed, it is like a drunk call. >> on the politics of it, they did want to say this was a big special address. aides said he's going on prompter, which is their way of saying he's got something to
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say, but this was really a stump speech sprinkled with a little extra law and order drama. >> totally agree. it was a bad copy and paste job of all his previous prompter speechers. >> which is better than plagiarism. >> let's look at donald trump's policies and let's look at how they would help the african-american community. you know what his economic policies are? giving huge tax breaks to corporations and millionaires and billionaires via repealing the estate tax. you know what he feels about voter id? he supports voter id, voter suppression, efforts that are aimed primarily at suppressing the black vote. >> i'm no defender of donald trump, but to say he supports suppressing the black vote is a little bit of overreach.
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the republican party does support voter identification. that's not the same as suppression. >> yes, it is. >> i'll disagree with you. the supreme court has just thrown out a lot of the republicans voting id ideas. >> that doesn't make it suppression. >> yeah, it does. they pretty much called it that. >> it's a modern day poll tax. >> it is. >> it is meant to suppress the votes of black voters, latino voters, college students, women voters. >> the elderly. >> you can go down the list and you can call it voter id, but let's be real. it is a voter suppression tactic. >> let me ask you, katy, what else would you want to hear from the rest of the republican party. because i'm old enough to remember a time, three to four weeks ago, where donald trump would give a speech and there would be some attempt to respond or echo it. we see it a lot in politics and surrogate.
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i don't know if it is just me, but lately it seems like he did the foreign policy national security speech yesterday. he did this tonight. we're not hearing from any republicans other than his inner buddy circle of chris christie and rudy. is that right? >> well, i think people are just tired. they're tired of having to go out and defend what sounds like nonsense half the time. i don't blame that. that's why i don't support donald trump, so i don't have to go out and defend that. >> i'm tired, katy, but we have 45 minutes left in this live show. keep going. >> if you want to look at somebody who has substantive policy that they're proposing, real things that he's proposing that would be done for the inner cities of this country, paul ryan has a great agenda. i would be happy to see donald trump plagiarize some of the things paul ryan has said. i don't think donald trump is serious about proposing real
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substantive policy change. he just wants to sputter these bumper sticker slogans that don't have any substance behind them. >> that may say something about the state of the race when your best hope is that paul ryan could sock puppet donald trump at some later date. the whole panel stays and we have more to talk about. we have a little bit more from the law and order speech today with donald trump saying he's not going to pivot. we have new numbers showing problems in the senate. also, we have a video of mike pence doing the best he can do. roger ailes advising donald trump on those big debates. "new york times" says it is on. we'll get into whether it is a good idea. stay with us. both on the track and thousands of miles away. with the help of at&t, red bull racing can share critical information about every inch of the car from virtually anywhere. brakes are getting warm.
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our live coverage continues. coming up, donald trump is saying he's not going to change the popeye strategy. he is who he is, but there may be one change on the horizon for him in the general election. also trump about to get his
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first classified intelligence briefing. that is tomorrow or starting in 45 minutes really. some people say he shouldn't get it even though he is the nominee. stay with us. for partners in health, time is life. we have 18,000 people around the world. the microsoft cloud helps our entire staff stay connected and work together in real time to help those that need it. the ability to collaborate changes how we work. what we do together changes how we live. man, my feet same time tomorrow, fellas!? dr. scholl's massaging gel work insoles absorb a hard day on your feet for comfort that keeps you feeling more energized. dude's got skills. dr. scholl's work insoles. when heartburn comes creeping up on you. fight back with relief so smooth and fast. tums smoothies starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue.
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and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. tum-tum-tum-tum-tums smoothies, only from tums. it's great to be here tonight. [ cheering ] >> i'm honored also to be joined this evening by governor scott walker, eat gentleman and a really great governor. >> that was moments ago in wisconsin. we are back with our live special election coverage. trump wrapping up his day with that law and order special address. many republicans aren't with trump and that is starting to
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make some things awkward, even for his running mate. this is what happened to mike pence, his running mate, in new mexico earlier this evening. >> our republican governor refuses to endorse you or mr. trump in this election, and she is one of many republicans that are deserting. why the unprecedented number of people who are deserting you and mr. trump in your own party? >> yeah, let me say susana martinez is a great friend of mine. she's a great governor. she's done a great job for new mexic mexico. >> it is no fun when it goes down like that. you're all here. we always say all the panels are great. it's not true. sometimes we lie. this is a truly great panel. smart, funny. >> oh, come on. >> you're also my most recent panel. you look at the tension, right?
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you can feel it. we played that clip for not what was said, but for what wasn't said, which is pence is -- i feel for him. he's in there. he's trying to bring it together. he wants to respect the person who asked the question. he wants to respect the popular governor. this is a hard spot for mike pence, and he is looking out for a career that could last longer than donald trump's career as a republican potentially. >> that's exactly right, ari. that's what makes it so hard. he's constantly twisting himself into a pretzel. he knew this challenge was going to be there. there's nothing that's changed since when mike pence took the position of running as vp to today, so he was walking into it. he knew he had a tough job to do. i think the trump folks were hoping he'd be able to give more to the ticket, maybe even it out more. but again, donald trump with what he's done in the last three weeks has made it almost
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impossible for governor pence to do what his job. >> katy, speak to the politics of that because the running mates do matter. susan is basically saying, look, if you get asked to go open for kanye west and go on that tour, you know what's going to happen on that tour. there's going to be excitement, but also tough days. is that right and did mike pence make the right bet here? >> a vp candidate brings you two things. trouble and their home state. in this case, we're not everyn e sure he's going to deliver indiana for donald trump. the truth is i think it is very clear this was a pick that donald trump made to get him through the convention. he picked a very conservative candidate, somebody that those on the convention floor would embrace and celebrate. it would comfort them to feel like he was going to, you know, sort of act like a republican come fall. trump has largely sort of forgotten mike pence since the convention and has kind of moved on.
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mike pence has made a bed he has to lie in. i think he's doing the best job he can under the circumstances, but i don't think this was a great choice for mike pence. >> it all sounds like it is so much under duress. marco rubio from the primaries was recently pressed on squaring the statements he's made about trump's competence and his honesty with supporting him. take a listen to this, mark. >> okay. >> look, i told you guys. i have stood by everything i've ever said in my campaign. that said, we're in a different place now. now we have a binary choice. there are two people in the world that are going to be the next president, either donald or hillary. >> what i wonder is whether trump could have done a better job trying to bring some of these people in so it wasn't just so raw. >> you think? >> i think he sabotaged himself throughout the whole primary process. he ran everybody down, made
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jokes about everybody. i agree with what you said about pence, too, susan. i think that's why he made the choice. i think it was a very practical choice to make. he'll get some more publicity out of it and more name recognition, but trump has forgotten about him. he is going to overshadow whoever he has a running mate. >> he seems to be kind of man alone on an island, a very bad standup, not getting any kind of responses. >> the democratic nominee, hillary clinton, is not actually having such an easy ride of it either when it comes to her trustworthy numbers. the governor of new hampshire yesterday, i believe it was, was asked three times -- she is running against kelly ayotte for the u.s. senate -- is hillary clinton trustworthy. she would not answer the question.
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she ducked it three separate times. hillary clinton does have her problem when it comes to certain issues and people who are trying to get behind her in certain races. >> you don't feel like her vice presidential candidate is spinning off on its own. that's what we were saying. >> let's be clear here. neither candidate here is perfect. these are the two most unpopular candidates in american history. i just really want to stand up for kanye west first. bridge too far comparing him to donald trump. >> why? >> i am pro music. >> unpredictable. rambunctious. >> i'm not going to shed new tears for him because he did take a bailout. >> i think trump is like the kim kardashian of politics. he's a brand without any kind of real -- i trust kim kardashian more with the presidency than
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donald trump. >> maybe hillary clinton to at least some republicans is more like the bob dillon. whatever you have done and whatever respect we can have for the service you have provided, you're not where you used to be. what do you think of those attacks? >> i think those attacks will backfire on him. >> do you think they're sexist? >> yes. >> i do too. >> where they will backfire is with women. if he goes down that route of attacking her stamina, attacking her personal life, the people he's hurting the most right now are women. >> right. >> those suburban women romney voters are slowly turning their backs on him and i don't think that's going to work. >> you think it is not only wrong, but dumb. >> it's dumb, yes. >> the panel stays. ahead, donald trump getting that first classified briefing tomorrow that we talked about.
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we have a former fbi official that is going to join us and break it all down, give us the details. the clinton campaign, the trust issue, and all of that straight ahead. make the baconator. because while some other guys use frozen beef from far away. that's 9,429 miles away. wendy's only uses fresh beef from ranches close by. so we don't have to freeze it. then add six strips of bacon, cooked fresh in an oven never a microwave. topped with plenty of... (all together) cheese! without a single veggie to get in the way. proving once and for all... that only wendy's has the bacon and the ator to make the baconator. [music] jess: hey look, it's those guys. jess: are you good to drive? shawn: i'm fine. jess: how many did you have? shawn: i should be fine. jess: you should be? officer: go on and step out of the vehicle for me. bud: see ya, buddy. good luck! so, it turns out buzzed driving and drunk driving,
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tomorrow in a secure fbi facility somewhere in new york donald trump will receive his first formal classified intelligence briefing. sources have told nbc news that the briefing will be thorough, but it won't be super secret.
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what does that exactly mean? presidential nominees typically get these briefings for the past 50 years. shawn henry is former assistant director of the fbi and those of which he speaks. walk us through how secret this is. how does it work? >> these briefings are classified as secret. in reality, they're much more sterile. we're looking strategically what some of the risks are to the united states and to the public and american interests around the globe. they're talking about hot spot type issues whether it be terrorism, nuclear proliferation, geopolitical issues as opposed to the president of the united states who gets a more tactical brief. this is a very different type of a briefing, ari. >> who does the nominee get to bring with him? how many people from the fbi typically are there?
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how much back and forth or questioning is there? does the nominee shape the briefing or not? >> yeah, so the briefing will be done in an fbi facility. but it will likely be done by the office of the director of national intelligence, which oversees the 16 intelligence agencies in the united states, intelligence community. it will be several hours likely, and there will be some exchange back and forth. it really is going to be dictated by the candidate. the candidate may have some advisers with him tomorrow, and those advisers will be folks he brings along with him. i don't think they'll be limited. those people will have to be read in, get some type of security clearance for the day. they'll be advised they can't use this type of information outside of that facility because again it is classified. one of the big challenges is going to be to compartmentalize
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that information. it is difficult for those in the government to remember when they have heard something in a classified manner. >> you focus more on the substance than the optics, but how important is it for donald trump, as we would say in the olympics vernacular, to stick the landings on these, that he walks out in a manner that helps the public, that he is being presidential and responsible? do you see these formal traditions as a part of that process for him as a candidate? >> these go back to the truman administration. you mentioned that earlier. it is about getting the candidates prepared. they're going to be going into the debates. the american people needs to hear what the candidates think about particular national security issues. they're on the campaign trail. this is really about getting them prepared. when they come out, they've got to be careful. they want to address the issues
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that are important based on the risks and the identified threats, but they don't want to reveal anything that could jeopardize american sources and methods and the way we collect intelligence. that's the big challenge. >> shawn henry, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you. up next, donald trump attacking hillary clinton in that big speech, but perhaps more interesting "the new york times" reporting that former fox news chief ceo roger ailes is going to be involved in prepping donald trump for the debates. is this a good idea? the hot panel will weigh in next. let's feed him to the sharks! squuuuack, let's feed him to the sharks! yay! and take all of his gold! and take all of his gold! ya! and hide it from the crew! ya...? squuuuack, they're all morons anyway! i never said that. they all smell bad too. no! you all smell wonderful! i smell bad! if you're a parrot, you repeat things. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance,
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>> don't be complacent my friends because even though we're doing fine right now i'm not taking anybody anywhere for granted. >> in our new survey poll, clinton up nine points on trump. that's almost out to double digits here, but there's still numbers inside that survey that don't sit well for clinton. just 11% say she's honest and trustworthy. the whole panel is back in the mix. liz, i'll start with you. u work from martin o'malley who ran against hillary clinton. there is this thing, the numbers bear it out, where there is incredible skepticism toward her even among democrats, whether you call that clinton fatigue or something about the way she presents or as her allies say as she has faced a strenuou 30-year
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campaign, is this working off trump's popularity? >> i don't think they're going to be able to move her personal trust numbers much, but i think what they're trying to bank on and what they're going to promote is that she is a person you can trust with the nuclear codes. she is a person that you can trust to fight for middle class families. she is the person that you can trust to go out there and fight relentlessly every day and never give up. >> you sound a little talking pointy. >> maybe i do. >> if we were at a dinner and you were talking like that, i would be like who is this person. >> it is only because you didn't do uh or i think at all. >> so clear. >> because i think that is the reality. that is the reality here. >> i understand what you're saying about what she wants to say about herself. i think this is a referendum
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election. if it is a referendum on donald trump, hillary clinton wins. if it is a referendum on hillary clinton, donald trump wins. >> donald trump doesn't have the discipline to stay on message five days a week. >> exactly. they've burned in a message in pennsylvania and north carolina. why they're moving out of virginia is they burned this message that he is not trustworthy. it is not that she is. it is just he's not. >> i want to let clinton off the hook with these numbers. i want to show the facts here. you remember that song "all of this above"? i'm not going to make you sing it. >> thank you. we'll do it later. >> that's not the hillary clinton situation in these numbers. when you ask about how you would describe clinton, when you ask people, 42% personality, temperament to serve, 23% cares
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about people like you, 20% shares your values. none of the above 52%. the opposite of all of the above. >> i don't quite get it frankly. i'm not going to trash all the poll numbers, but i will say when i was in high school in college -- >> you're going to say rigged system. >> no. i used to do some of these political polls. you call up. if you didn't get a certain number done by the end of the night, you were kind of in trouble, so i think sometimes some of the numbers can be a little bit odd. you find of like sometimes rush through and falsify -- i hate to say this, but there was a little bit of mischief that happened with all that. i don't understand the trustworthiness problems with her. i think it may be more fatigue. >> but you don't have a problem with her being ahead in the poll against trump? that number is good? >> right. you're absolutely right. i worry about --
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>> i vote by the tnumbers. >> it's only august, even though the numbers are the way that they are. >> mark? >> i think it's conditioning. part of that is a fatigue. there's so much negative about her. it's been out there for the past 25 years. you talk about songs. i work in radio. you hear a song on the radio you don't like. the radio station keeps playing it. in a couple of weeks you're singing it. >> i must like this. >> and that's her. i will also say and some people poo-poo this, but i think history will judge this whole ordeal as sexist. i think there's scrutiny that others don't. when women are too ambitious, what are they called? what are think referred to? how are they disdained? >> i worked for a woman candidate in the senate. it was one of my first jobs in
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government. i remember people coming up to me going i've heard she's really hard to work for. i was like all the senators are hard to work for. they're u.s. senators. have you met them? it wasn't untrue that some of the senators were demanding, but it is like only the women senators are demanding. it is a double standard. >> but here's part of the problem. the next president of the united states will not be liked or trusted by the american public. that is the dynamic that this race is running under. >> i feel like you're changing the subject. >> i don't feel that way. >> do you think there's a double standard against hillary right now? >> absolutely. there's no question about it. hillary clinton, if she would have said half of what donald trump said and called it policy, she would have been killed. >> she would be roped out of there. >> there's a double standard on a lot of different things. she's being treated different
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from donald trump and donald trump is promoting -- when he says she doesn't look like a president, he's saying she's a woman. look at her and a woman shouldn't be president. >> all i was going to say is look at him. then what i was going to say was is what's interesting about gender and both of you were saying about strong women, i remember women being anti-hillary clinton when she was running for senate because she didn't leave bill. i feel like she gets all this angst based on what he did. >> we have to fit in a break. we'll come back to it. the panel stays. still ahead, the reports i mentioned earlier of trump bringing on roger ailes as a key debate adviser, which the campaign has started to deny. what role might he play? stay with us. your grandkids spot a 6 foot banana that you need to win. in that moment, you'll be happy you partnered with a humana care manager
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reports out late today that donald trump may be enlisting a controversial figure to help him prepare for those all-important presidential debates. roger ailes is advising trump on debates according to four sources who spoke with "the new york times." ailes resigned from fox last month after sexual allegations from staffers, including a lawsuit that is still ongoing from gretchen carlson. he has denied those allegations. the trump campaign is saying that report that trump and ailes were working together is false. they say they're long time friends, but ailes has no formal or informal role in the campaign. plenty to debate about this. our own chuck todd did ask donald trump about whether the chairman would take a role on
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trump's campaign. >> finally, roger ailes, is he helping you? is he advising you? >> i don't want to comment, but he's been a friend of mine for a long time. some of the women that are complaining, i know how much he's helped them and even recently. when they write books that are fairly recently released and they say wonderful things about him and all of a sudden they're saying these horrible things about him, it's very sad because he's a very good person. i've always found him to be just a very, very good person and by the way, a very talented person. look at what he's done, so i feel very badly. my campaign is doing pretty well. >> the panel is back with us. we are joined by hunter walker. susan, i'll go to you first. the significance of this in republican circles. >> if it is in fact true and the campaign is denying it, they can't afford to get caught in a lie. the campaign needs to settle this in the next 12 hours because this is going to be a problem if he gets caught in a
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lie. that being said, roger ailes is someone who donald trump does respect. and when you bring someone with his credentials into a campaign, all of a sudden your staff don't know anything and you have this magical expert. it happens at every level of a campaign when you're doing debate prep. they're going to help you through this, and he will, i believe, listen to roger ailes and roger ailes is a very smart man. the allegations against him are horrendous and obviously everyone is saying that's going to hurt him with women. i don't think it will matter when it comes down to real voting numbers. >> politically? >> yeah, politically. if roger ailes can get through to donald trump and provide him with a great way to nail this debate, he'll be a hero. >> hunter? >> i would agree with that. if lies and sexual harassment charges could hurt donald trump's candidacy, he wouldn't have won the nomination in the
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gop primary. he's already shown to be teflon to that. >> we have here multiple allegations that have been reported by multiple outlets. there's an ongoing investigation. you can't put that on the level of anything with donald trump. >> no, but there's been negative comments he's made over the years. >> on his campaigning? >> yes. but ailes, he pioneered a lot of the dark arts of politics that we know, including the attack the media playbook that nixon used. we now see trump using. today we saw a bit of a new donald trump. i don't know if it was someone else's influence. >> i agree with some of what people said and disagree with other things. donald trump does need someone who can tell him no. clearly there's no one on his staff who can tell him no.
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he's tapping out those crazy tweets like nobody's business. roger ailes is obviously accused of some very horrendous and offensive things. and when donald trump has historically bad numbers with women, why would he want to associate himself with someone like roger ailes? two, roger ailes was brilliant at making fox news a right-wing echo machine and building it up, but donald trump needs to get out of that right-wing echo machine. he needs to talk to people who can tell him how to do a broader message. [ talking simultaneously ] >> the counterpoint to that and there is an issue with the so-called pivot to the election, the counterpoint is whatever you think about roger ailes and the allegations against him, as a political matter it is certainly true he helped richard nixon
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reinvent himself from a right-wing caricature to a general election candidate and bush senior. >> but how? southern strategy. willie horton. the most base, icky, bad ways to go about not expanding his base. the fox news audience that roger ailes helped develop, they're ageing white men. >> you're saying we're not necessarily looking at the 1988 electorate he was so good at. we're talking about fox being to the right and that's fine, but don't forget how it got developed. it was an anti-clinton machine. that's when it started. roger ailes has devoted the last 25 years going after the clintons and developed a network based on that. the wealth of information in how to position them that he has that he can offer donald trump is just tremendous. >> i think hillary does provide
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a huge opening for trump because both their unfavorables are very high. trump's just happen to be a lot higher than hers. if he is able to home in on her and focus on her, that would be really good. he's done really well with the red meat base, but he needs to start thinking about the independents. >> the political judgment is they're not admitting to this yet. they're trying to workshop it. we have to take our last quick break. we have more afterward. stay with us.
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tonight donald trump continued his attack on the media. he said they are part of the, quote, rigged system. that's a theme he's hit before, but he's been particularly hard on the press lately. hard enough that today one of his supporters is telling him to move on and it might surprise you who. >> now you're seeing what happens when you go after the media. it doesn't work. it never works going after them if you are the candidate. it makes you look small. besides, despite what many people think, the media isn't on the ballot. >> hunter, is rush limbaugh correct? >> i have spent the last couple of days talking to trump campaign officials about their war on the media, and they really think it is going to work for them. and they point to really
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historically low approval ratings that the media has among the american public. they're sort of engaged in this weird dialogue with the media where they're sending out these media bias offender e-mails regularly and they're just going to their press list. >> liz, hunter is certainly correct. the approval ratings for a lot of the press is really low. it's something that makes me feel bad about myself. >> are you willing to take responsibility for it tonight, ari? >> i think that's part of the healing process is owning the problem, but also understanding my own self-loathing is my fault. look, you can score a point or two, but you don't win a national election over saying that somebody over there was unfair to you. >> yeah, and i feel sick to my stomach, but i agree with rush limbaugh. every second you're fighting the media you're not fighting your opponent. hunter and i worked closely
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together in 2012 when i was the director of rapid response for barack obama. i spent all my time making mitt romney's life hell. >> attacking the media is a losing strategy for donald trump. he was made by the media. for months, we heard how donald trump came to be. he ran his campaign based on free media. for him now to be attacking the very people that he basically won his primary off because they couldn't stop covering him is insane. i agree with liz's point. why fight the media when you can fight hillary clinton? it is a much better way to go. >> rush limbaugh, i had almost forgotten about him. he's gotten very small in this last election, and i agree with you completely. even by fighting the media, he still is in the media, so the beat goes on. he keeps himself newsworthy by saying the most outrageous
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things. >> the beat goes on until the break of dawn or at least until midnight. that is the end of our special live coverage. i want to thank our fun and interesting panel. that is all for i'm excited, as you can probably tell. i'm not a very good actor. when i get excited about something, you can see it. i'm excited because i got you something. we were looking in the nbc archives today, for something totally unrelated to what we found. that's a long story. but what we came across was some footage from the presidential election in 1988. now, you may have seen little pieces of this, little snippets of this have been sort of dug up and posted elsewhere this year, because of its relevance to what's going on right now in our politics. but what we found today was the unedited whole thing, and it's nuts. i mean, everybody always says

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