tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC September 5, 2016 2:00pm-3:01pm PDT
>> there's so many people like trump who look at us like we're not their equal. i'm sick of it. i have had it up to here. >> trump's biggest surrogates are rudy giuliani, ben carson and chris christie. trump was also in ohio today meeting with union welle erlead cleveland and talking to reporters on board his jet. >> it's going to be so vital to this country to bring back our jobs. our jobs have been taken like grant took richmond. we have never had a case like this before, and it's getting worse and worse. >> and with just 64 days until election day, the latest polling average shows clinton holding on to a nearly 3 1/2-point lead in a four-way matchup. let's bring in l. joy williams and former aide for george h.w. bush, eric and steve cortes, member of the national hispanic
advisory council for donald trump. and i'm going to start with you. you worked for a former president who i think a lot of people may be missing right now as they see where the republican party has gone. but it is interesting that who you don't have out there for donald trump includes, we know george herbert walker bush has not been well but his son, the former president george w. bush, john mccain who was a former republican presidential candidate. you don't have mitt romney. you don't seem to have the a-list heavy weight republicans out there for trump. why is that? >> well, i think it's because of the candidacy of donald j. trump. surrogates in the surrogate game is one of addition, not subtraction. he is shedding surrogates and credible voices to go around the country and talk for him when he should be adding them. new voices, different voices. that's not happening. and it's a problem for his campaign. >> not only not having the former presidents. we'll have the current president of the united states stumping for hillary clinton. joe biden. really the a-list of the
democratic party out there in full force. does it send a message down the ticket that the party is not fully on board with the candidate? isn't it problematic that all of these non-white republicans who manage to win statewide office, the nikki haleys, suzanna martinez if they could go out there and stump for their candidate. they're not there. isn't that problem atuc? >> we can't say all. i'm certainly a nonwhite republican who is stumping very hard for donald trump. your previous guest just insulted me because we've gone very down the list of surrogates. i'm one of themp. but i would say this. in the campaign, we're almost proud that some of those republicans aren't on our team because, guess what? we're not part of the establishment. we're not part of the crooked, d.c. crony establishment. republican and democrat. that has made most of americans' lives less safe and less prosperous. if you want to talk about mitt romney, john mccain, a couple people who lost disastrously. if you want to talk about even
george w. bush and i'll be bipartisan in my criticism. most americans report is had a pay raise in this century since the year 2000. the policies on this administration, the policies of the previous administration are not working for most americans. what donald trump has done is said we have a resounding new way and we're going to include the republican party, of course. but we are more than anything not anti-democrat. we're anti-washington. we're anti-establishment. >> and i'll ask you this as a strategist. it's fine to sort of run against washington. but if you don't have the speaker of the house who won his primary very handily against a pro-trump opponent. so what steve is saying is they don't need them. you don't need the governor of ohio, john kasich in a state of ohio where essentially he controls the apparatus of get out the vote? you don't need the governor of ohio? you don't need these guys? >> it depends on the strategy. as we heard the surrogate talk about, the strategy is to put up the current nominee, donald
trump, as being anti-establishment and being the different than what washington has seen before or even we've seen in the white house. for their particular strategy, they believe they don't. what is amazing to see is then how does that get down into the ground? if you are talking about those individuals that you can bring out to help bring out the vote and do the coordination on the ground to actually get voters to the polls, if you don't have those individuals doing that or helping with that, donald trump can't be everywhere. and certainly the national surrogates in rudy giuliani and others can't be everywhere. you need people local on the ground in individual precincts in order to bring those people out for election day. that's what's going to be missing. >> at the end of the day, rudy giuliani is not even popular. there isn't a person of color in new york that likes rudy giuliani. new york and new jersey are
going to hillary clinton. you need john kasich. you need ohio. >> you need to pick up advocates for your message and your campaign as the race gets closer to november. donald trump n his campaign have not done that. >> even people who say they're for him like marco rubio aren't helping him out. let's go over to the democrats. one of the big sources of tension between -- there are many. we can do an hour on it. this sense that she doesn't give access to us. she won't let reporters near her. well, she finally did allow the press on her plane which means reporters will feel they're getting access to the candidate. let's play a little of that. this is hillary clinton talking about whether she's happy to see us. >> hi, guys. welcome to our big plane. it's so exciting. >> what do you think? >> i think it's pretty cool, don't you? you're supposed to say yes. i am so happy to have you all
with me. i have just been waiting for this moment. and i'm -- no, really. and i'll come back and talk to you more formally. i wanted to welcome you onto the plane. >> she's not happy to see any of those folks at all. it was funny because it was so shame filled. does anything change with granting more access to the press? do you expect the coverage of her, the tone of it will change? >> i really don't. this goes back decades. we have a pretty good example. when she gave her book tour, amazing access. a couple of weeks. sat down. media matters added up 3 1/2 hours of television interviews. sat down with the best and brightest of the tv world. she got hammered in the press for doing it. they absolutely don't like her. she was phony, not authentic, out of touch. we have aconcrete example. she did open the door, granted a lot of access and they just
hammered her. so i don't know if it's going to change the coverage or not. again, this dynamic goes back to the '90s. there's been a lot of chatter over the weekend about how "the new york times" is covering her. paul krugman wrote this column in "the new york times" basically chastising how, though not by name, his own paper. we're losing track of what this campaign is about. people are so lost in the scandal narrative, they can't get away from it. we've seen this before. this is the latest chapter. trump hasn't -- people are not allowed on the trump plane yet. but -- >> he's not a clinton. >> the press is mostly fixated on clinton access and democratic access. there seems to be a double standard. democrats are always supposed to welcome the press in and republicans are able to sort of keep them at a distance. we don't see a problem with that. don't see a lot of complaints. >> you had jean carlo, george w. bush was the master of wooing
the press and befriending them. giving them nicknames. you're stretch and you're slim. it lowers people's guard. and i'm going to do the same thing. you are a republican strategist. do you think in any way it would help him? it seems so superficial to say you need to be friendly to us or we're going to trash you as corrupt. >> we talk about double standards in politics. one of the first rules of politics would be to understand that there is a double standard in politics. the worst mistake you can make it a blunder that feeds the narrative about you and your weaknesses. hillary clinton has handed these out like candy. so we can have a debate. i hope we do, about whether or not the foundation did things that were improper, right or wrong. but the fact of the matter is hillary clinton is making it so easy for her detractors to take shots at her and, to me, you know, again, we can talk about the validity of those arguments. she has not help herself at all.
>> do yau agree with that? >> i don't think she's handed out anything. every revelation we've had on these e-mails, a year ago, pay for play, quid pro quo. now it's -- >> it was. >> no it wasn't. >> sure it was. krugman's article was so -- >> pay for play is the trump foundation. >> we'll talk about that later. and you know i like you a lot but the problem is even the stories that were about this supposed pay for play. we didn't find any but it looked bad she had the foundation. we're going to pak sure you're in that block. and we want to make sure we get steve back in here. one thing that also happened today. we continue to have this back and forth on the question of whether or not donald trump wants to deport everyone that's in the country, undocumented or not. let's play donald trump on his plane today talking about his immigration stance. take a listen. or not. do we have that? okay. we'll come back. oh, no.
>> it's going to be a two-way street. and with me, it's got to be a one-way street for a while. i'll be honest with you. >> it's kind of hard to hear that. i'm going to read for you. he said i'm not ruling out anything. no, no, no to become a citizen you'll have to go out and come back in through the process. you'll have to get in line. the reporter says a lot of republican plans about letting people have legal status. just to let them live here, work here. people who have lived here for a long time, contributed to society. he says we're going to make that decision into the future. at this point can you tell us definitively, you don't work for the campaign, is donald trump saying that people who are here having jobs and families can stay or they have to go? it seems like he said both. >> what i think, joy, he's been accused continually of flip flopping on this. i don't think he's flip-flopped at all. he's been remarkably consistent that there are a couple of bedrock principles. one is we must secure our southern border. we've not done that for decades.
the second is there's no path to citizenship. if you came here illegally, you cannot be rewarded for illegal activity with citizenship. he's never wavered from that. where there's some ambigutity. this is leadership, not flip flopping. he's said we'll get to that. we have much more priorities at some point given the most dangerous people out, getting people living off the system out, living in sanctuary cities. once we do that and control our immigration system, if there are people who have been here illegally many years and have not in any way siphoned off the system, we can talk about their status. that's leadership. by the way, it's in stark contrast to hillary clinton who says within 100 days i'll give you a path to citizenship and will reward those who came illegally to hop the line in front of millions of immigrants from asia, from eastern europe, from latin american countries who did it the right way legally. >> as a result of supporti inin
daca, she's way ahead in the polls. look at your face. he was talking. your thoughts? >> i don't know why we're discussing this as if he has a concrete plan to do anything. i don't know why we're discussing him as if he has a concrete plan to do anything. >> can we speak in any greater platitudes than that? he talks about having a plan and basically just him getting up and talking about the broad strokes or the overall things that he wants to do in terms of securing the border. we're not clear about how a wall is built. who is going to pay for it or any of those things that people -- you know, aspire to because, yes, they want some security. yes, they want some path to citizenship. but there is no detail of going -- >> hold on. he hasn't been unclear about any of those. >> that's why we're talking about it. that's why people are asking questions. >> no path to citizenship. >> what happens is surrogates like yourself then come on tv and explain it for him, but your
candidate still has not explained it. >> i've actually heard trump surrogates say when mike pence is talk, he's talking as mike pence and giuliani is talking as giuliani. that's not the way it works. they're supposed to be able to say the same explanation as each other and they haven't been able to do that. eric, isn't this overall, and the reason we really, i like having you here on this, this is the problem. we're attempting to discuss donald trump as if he's mitt romney or george w. bush or like a traditional candidate. there's nothing traditional about it. >> joegeorge w. bush didn't los. >> romney and mccain did. >> this is a concern democrats and hillary clinton supporters have. trump does not have an immigration policy, a tax policy, doesn't have anything policy. and campaigns used to be about policy. they used to be about agenda. we don't talk about what hillary clinton wants to do as president. we don't talk about this amazingly liberal democratic agenda. e-mail foundation, optics,
optics, clinton -- with trump, kind of policy, but, if we just had a policy versus policy debate it would be a stark and revealing debate. >> we'll have more on this with this panel. that's an important point, even for us, the media. we only talk about optics and whether or not trump is pivoting. and we don't dig into the policy. you actually now are seeing in a lot of voters that they don't know what the policies of hillary clinton are. and those have been out there. my panel is coming back later in the show. trump's donations to state attorneys general and the questions they raise.
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i have a lot of respect for her. never spoke to her about that at all. and just have a lot of respect for her as a person, and she's done an amazing job as the attorney general of florida. >> donald trump today answered questions about a $25,000 check the trump foundation gave to florida attorney general pam bondi in 2013. as "the washington post" reports this week, trump is now paid a $2,500 penalty to the irs for that gift. because the trump foundation, a registered non-profit, violated tax laws by giving a political contribution. trump organization officials have claimed the violation was an honest mistalk and say trump has reimbursed the foundation. news of this donation is raising eyebrows. at the time, bondi was considering whether to investigate fraud allegations against trump university. and wound up not pursuing the case. bondi isn't the only state attorney general to find a -- to find a fat check in her campaign coffers from trump. in june, the ap reported trump
donated money to greg abbott's successful gubernatorial campaign, three years after abbott dropped his investigation into trump u. i'm going to start with you because pam bondi, who we both well known, has not been able to really escape the story but it hasn't seemed to hurt her. my question is whether this winds up hurting donald trump in some way. >> only if the democrats decide to make it an issue. let's play a game. let's take out donald trump's name and plug in hillary clinton's name and ask what would have happened in hillary clinton paid off a democratic state attorney general and had a favorable decision afterward. donald trump would be going crazy. all of the corrupt hillary epithets would be out there. why is this not the exact case of corrupt donald doing something that clearly is pay for play? one off maybe. twice a trend. greg abbott, pam bondi. >> that's a question for the media. you haven't heard the calls to
shut down the trump foundation or much about this story at all to be honest. this seems to be as direct an instance of what looks like pay for play as we've seen so far. >> for 18 months the press has been looking for a pay for play for the clinton administration. started in the spring of last year. they haven't found it. this is exactly what they have been looking for. this is, as he said, this would be all over the news. one mention on the sunday shows over the weekend about it. very little headlines or things like that. previously "washington post," "new york times," "usa today," all wrote editorials. you'd have to shut down the clinton foundation. not because they've done anything wrong. it just doesn't look good. we've got trump sending $25,000 checks to get investigations shut down. where are those editorials. where is that thunder, lecturing tone about how trump really needs to figure out how to abide by the ethics. this is an amazing double
standard. >> you would shred hillary clinton if the clinton foundation paid $25,000 to an attorney general who then ended an investigation against them, right? you'd come on this tv and shred her. >> absolutely. >> why do you suppose there's silence on the other side? >> i said this in the last block. double standards exist for a reason. the clintons have made it easy to take pot shots at them for the way they've conducted themselves in office and out of office. there's plenty to go after -- >> what gives you a good reason to believe that it's okay for the donald trump foundation to directly essentially hand over $25,000 to stop an investigation. where is the equivalent that behavior. >> there is no scenario where that's okay. i'm not going to defend trump. the equivalent is setting up your own e-mail server specifically because you did not want the kind of scrutiny that you knew would come if all of that -- if all those messages were -- >> is that the equivalent. >> it is for me. >> the equivalent, i remember bill clinton had an ill advised
meeting with loretta lynch on an airplane. they sat and talked and the world blew up. here's a smoking gun of a check not in one case, not in two cases, where you have -- >> no smoking gun? >> the central issue, trump university for the ultimate donald trump con on the table. >> how about one of loretta lynch's employees deciding not to pursue further indictment against hillary clinton. >> are you trying to allege there's some evidence that's -- hold on. for this to be the same thing, there has to be a check in bill clinton's hand, handed to loretta lynch. that's what this story is about pam bondi. >> wanted to turn the ap story into knots trying to confuse everyone. the reality is -- the reality is over half of the private citizens that hillary clinton visited with when she was secretary -- >> not over half. she visited with 1,700 meetings. 1,700 meetings of which 84 were with people who also were donors to the clinton foundation. >> 1700 were private citizens.
i read the ap story. that's how -- >> the ap story has been shredded because -- >> because why? >> i'm going to -- >> it was a small sub set. >> do you think -- hold on. >> not in a position to -- >> we're not going to have a you and me debate. do you think meeting with a nobel peace price lauriet required him to write a check? there was no evidence that's people wrote a check first and got a meeting. and many of these meetings got -- >> why did she set up the private server? >> what does that -- >> you just blurred two stories. >> my point is -- >> if someone tells you who they are. he's maintained, bragged about the fact when he wants someone to do something his way he pays them and gets them to do what he wants them to do. >> -- does not excuse headquartehillary clinton. >> here is the key difference. donald trump is a private citizen. yes, he has admitted that to some degree there was pay to play that he tried to get access from politicians which, by the way, significant business people
do all the time. >> wait a minute. wait a minute. >> the difference is -- >> steve, are you saying that significant business people regularly engage in pay to play and that that's okay because they're private citizens? >> no, it's not okay. it's not okay. >> you just said that he's a businessman and -- >> it's illegal. >> it's not okay. >> no -- >> donald trump has hinted that something -- >> a voice at the table. and what he's saying is this. he wants to end that system. and he's going to do it. by the way, donald trump gave donations from his personal fortune that he made -- >> no, from his foundation. the -- >> he made a mistake in that case. >> he wrote it from the foundation. you're not an allowed to do that. >> he reimbursed the foundation. >> you're saying that's all right. >> you're honestly saying it's all right -- >> he said it was a mistake. here's the -- >> he had to may a fine because it's illegal. >> and he said that was a mistake and he reimbursed the foundation and it was a tactical mistake.
it wasn't a pay to play in that case. >> it was a pay to play. she didn't pursue an investigation into trump university -- >> he supports a lot of politicians, including pam bondi. >> we've already had a "new york times" investigation attempt to find any evidence that donald trump has given money out of his own pocket. he's given money out of the foundation. his own checks don't get written somehow. >> well, the difference is, his money is his money. the clintons who have barely had -- >> where did he get his money? he doesn't give his own money. >> after serving in office have become generationally rich by selling access and by building ious all over the globe. the best example by far, the cleanest by far is the russians via canada giving $200 million to get 20% of mrkamerica's uran supply. >> okay, i don't even know where to go with this. your witness.
okay. >> what strikes me is the orwellian nature of this conversation. they take the very things that they accuse hillary clinton of being involved in or alleged of, supposedly, maybe, possibly and here are smoking guns in two cases. you just heard steve say donald trump admitted to being involved in pay for play which you and i know is illegal in the united states. you cannot do pay for play behavior pooum not saying it hasn't been done. he admitted to it. what you heard him now alleging the russians have been involved with the clinton campaign. the one sector of this campaign from a foreign policy perspective that caused the head of the cia to say donald trump is an unwitting agent of vladimir putin. orwellian. >> donald trump referenced this idea of what he did as a private businessman in terms of what we're calling pay for play. let's take a listen. >> nobody knows the system better than me. which is why i alone can fix it.
>> eric, your witness. >> again, the larger problem with the press is the optics police. so the clintons are going to be held under this microscope. every piece has a concession. two-thirds of the way down, can't find anything wrong but it doesn't look good, doesn't look good. here donald trump, it's wrong. it looks good and it's wrong. and we don't -- >> why does it always not look good? >> and we don't see those lecturing editorials, condescending editorials. this is the clinton foundation. if you ask the people who watch the charity watch or charity navigator, they say if she weren't running for president, this -- the clinton foundation would be seen as one of the great charities of our generation. >> that's not true. that's totally untrue. that's totally untrue. >> nobody has disputed the good works the clinton foundation has done. no one has -- >> the press says just shut it down. just shut it down.
it's very condescend -- >> some in the press -- >> those are the h lines. >> are you trying to tell me -- >> are you saying the mainstream media is in the pocket of donald trump? that they're favoring the trump narrative? i find that preposterous. >> what drives us crazy and keeps us up at night is that donald trump is the person that has to adjudicate this argument on behalf of the party. if it were anyone else, we would be winning this debate. but we're dealing with a novice in so many things. in donald trump. and we are letting a generationally winnable race slip through our fingers. because of topics like this. >> the ultimate trump fan and partisan but doesn't jean carlo make a good point? there's no getting around the fact that somebody like jean carlo would be great if he was advocating for you, but the reality is that you can't get the jean carlos to advocate for you. you can't get the republicans
who have great respect among the media to argue for your candidate. they won't do it. will now not admit you're to the point you can't get traditional republicans to make the points you're making? you can't get them. >> no, i won't admit that. and we are staging an insurgent campaign. that's almost not a campaign, it's a movement. we're upending washington in every sense. republican and democrat. it's difficult, tumultuous. we've made a lot of friends and a lot of enemies. there's a lot of people in washington. we've sent supposed conservatives to washington, d.c., for 25 years who quickly go k street very, very quickly and become big government, crony capitalists. >> do you want to name names? who are you talking about? >> absolutely. john boehner will be one. >> he's not there anymore. >> he was there for a long, long time. >> mitch mcconnell. >> what about the current speaker of the house. >> ambiffulevalent but i'm worr
about him. >> would it be helpful to have him on your side to win wisconsin? >> yes, it would be. and we do have him on our side right now. but my point is this. we are up ending the political order. this is a movement. it is a -- >> you said that. i'm going to let them back in. >> we hear a lot about upending the political order which i take great offense to. someone who has been in this game for almost a quarter of a century. >> you should take offense because we're coming after people like you. >> if you are a trump supporter, you are a supporter because you agree with his stance on certain issues like immigration or because you're tired of the quote/unquote politics as usual. so how is it that we now have a candidate who has equivocated all over the place on issues such as immigration to the point who follow policy like me don't even know what the hell he believes in or is it the donald trump that loves saying i'm not a typical politician but has the opportunity to go to mexico and speak truth to power, he equivocates n cowardly slinks
away without having addressed the issues. then goes to arizona in a room full of his supporters and screams and yells and we're back to the same guy. which is it? all by the way as a means to winning an election. >> we probably don't have time to go over all of them. he went to mexico and acted incredibly presidential. he put to rest worries and legitimate worries because he's never been a politician. can he operate on the international stage. >> i don't think he did that, but we're going to give fernand the last word. can donald trump win in his insurgency, kicking aside essentially the entire republican party along with the democrats? >> not with this message. elections are about addition not subtraction. let me close by saying trump university. he tried to invalid the judge, judge curiel. now we have two cases of pay for play, because let's not mistake what it is. in the case of the governor of texas when he was attorney general, now pam bondi. follow the money. smoke and fire there because he
knows this was the ultimate con. >> and i agree with you. i think this should be a much bigger story because it's a much more direct -- there's fire here. this isn't just smoke. they'll all be back because we're having so much fun. next, my interview with j.d. vance about the impact white working voters are having on the presidential campaign. the no.1 choice of dentists. compared to oral-b 7000, philips sonicare flexcare platinum removes significantly more plaque. this ithe sound of sonic technology cleaning deep between teeth. hear the difference? get healthier gums in just 2 weeks vs a manual toothbrush and experience an amazing feel of clean. innovation and you. philips sonicare. save now when you buy philips sonicare. philips sonicare. ♪ ♪ philips sonicare.
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this labor day our annual celebration of the american worker arrives during a presidential election that's emphasized the concerns of workers. in particular, the white working class. because it's this base of voters who donald trump has to thank for winning the republican nomination. and hillbilly elegy offers some message into why trump's message resonates with white working class america. i spoke to j.d. vance about his book yesterday on "a.m. joy." j.d., thank you for being here. i read so many pieces about your book and seen so many interviews with you. i have the book here. can't wait to dive into it. your story, first of all, is fascinating. the way you went from rust belt unit to yale. can you give us a synopsis?
>> i grew up in a rough and tumble area. my family struggled with a lot of things people are struggle with. thanks to the promise of my grandparents and them playing a positive role in my life, i wassawas able to get out. i joined the marine corps. and i went from there to college n then to yale law school. i've had a pretty good life. a kind of classically upward mobile life. the book is about why there aren't more books about me. why was one of the lucky few and why there weren't more lucky like i am. >> one thing fascinating about your story and the story you tell about who you call the hillbilly world that even sometimes earned the contempt of fellow white americans is how similar some of the pathologies you talk about are to the pathologies that normally people assign to african-americans. that these ideas of the way you're raised. mostly by your grandparents. able to use the military to get a college degree.
that's familiar across racial lines. why do you suppose there's such a huge gulf and distance ideologically between african-americans and people from where you -- like the ones you came from? >> well, obviously, a lot of it goes back to 40 or 50 years ago when the two groups sort of diverged because of certain policies that were supported by nixon, by goldwater and so forth. so some of it has its root in that history. a big part is because of the way that black americans have been discriminated against legally, i think black americans have tended to focus on politics of race and which party is going to provide the most racial uplift or tear down the most legal barriers. white americans have typically voted their pocketbook. voted politics of class. and so they have tended to not necessarily overlap. they have sometimes, of course, but most of the times often voting for different groups. >> it's interesting you say voting the politics of class or pocketbooks.
the way we tend to think about white working class americans, people mostly think they vote sort of against their economic interests. they become very anti-union, for instance, even though that's what lifted up white americans after world war ii and gave them economic opportunity. they tend to be against policies that help the poor even if they are in need of social services or food stamps. why do you suppose that is? >> well, a big part of it is the folks in the white working class are a little uncomfortable with the idea that they need handouts. so a lot of times even though they may be voting against a candidate who is going to give them something economically, a lot of times they're voting when i say voting their class, they're voting pride in who they are. they have a little leeway because they're not as destitute, of course, as minority groups of poor folks of other minority groups. but partially just because they have built in some ways the politics of pride and that's in some ways often takes precedence over the economic stuff.
>> and how much does race play into it. it's impossible to talk about anything when you're talking about american history without talking about race and you make the point in a lot of ways that even if the white poor are economically struggling, they still, i guess, in a sense, have that sense that they got it over african-americans in terms of their rank in society. how much does that play into this antipathy to the democratic party which has become the home of black voters? >> sure, well, i definitely think it plays a part. there's definitely a significant chunk of the sort of david duke vote that's supporting donald trump. but i don't think it's majority part of the white working class. there's some racial anxiety, there's some economic anxiety but also cultural anxiety. there's the anxiety of seeing too many heroin overdoses in your community, rising mortality rates. it's probably more complicated than even race or economics. it's probably sort of all the above.
we should recognize the role that race plays but shouldn't be too reductionist about saying this is just a racist group of people. that's not what i see in my own family. i don't think it gives enough credence to how much these folks are really struggling. >> this is an excerpt from hillbilly elegy. it's not entirely clear how trump plans to bring factory jobs back to the southern ohio or rid eastern kentucky of the prescription drug epidemic or cure western pennsylvania's teenagers of their heroin addiction, yet for people who no longer believe in the american dream their parents and grandparents, slogans may be enough. making america great again may sound try to ite to some but to it's music to their ears. why is this group of americans so pessimistic and explain a little more why donald trump's slogans resonate with them. >> yeah, well, part of it is that pessimism is rooted in something legitimate. if you think of my grandparents life, they expected and really that was worn out by reality
that their kids would have a better material life than they a have. it's gone to where they've seen the prospects sort of fall off. that pessimism creates a certain detachment from their country, a lack of faith in the future and donald trump is obviously exploited that lack of faith to a people who feel their country isn't that great anymore. the slogan, make america great again, actually resonates. >> and talk just a little bit as we wrap up about barack obama and whether or not for a lot of the country, barack obama's, leks helped them believe they could move forward. why is this so much in the obama era. >> there's a growing sense that the elites of our political and financial world are unlike people like me. they talk a certain way, act a certain way, have certain educational credentials that most people in my community don't have. there's this growing sense of
cultural chasm between the people who make it and the people who don't. and, frankly, a lot of people i grew up around are wondering if they're on the wrong side of that line and ever able to join the good side again. >> well, it is a fascinating book. this is the book. "hillbilly elegy" a memoir of family and culture in crisis. congratulations on the success of the book, j.d. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. all right. after the break, the unsoftening continues. stay with us. now, with one talk from verizon... hi, pete. i'm glad you called. (announcer vo) all your phones can work together on one number. you can move calls between phones, so conversations can go where you go. take your time. i'm not going anywhere. (announcer vo) and when you're not available, one talk helps find the right person who is. hi, john. (announcer vo) so wherever work takes you, you can put your customers first. introducing one talk-- another way verizon connects your business better. learn how at onetalk.com.
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i think what he's talking about is a pause. after the two to three million get put out of the country because they're committing crimes, hurting americans. >> donald trump, as he expressed in one of his interviews recently, would find it very, very difficult to throw out a family that's been here for, you know, 15 years. >> donald trump is going to tell you exactly what he thinks. sometimes you'll agree, sometimes you won't, but you'll never have to wonder. >> donald trump sent his surrogates out to clarify and perhaps resoften his immigration policy. chris christie and rudy jewgiuli claim the promise to deport anyone in the ucountry illegall only applies to those who have
committed crimes. that's left fellow republicans confused. >> some people said it was hardening. some said softening. i just said confusing. >> senator flake on to declare to cnn's jake tapper he cannot vote for trump. trump tweeted the great state of arizona where i just had a rally, amazing people, has very weak and ineffective senator jeff flake. sad. joining the panel, you guys were all here. okay. don't laugh. very sad. so all right. we talk a little bit about immigration earlier but we want to go back into it again because i want to play donald trump in phoenix on wednesday. this was the speech that he gave in phoenix, arizona, in which he seemed to definitively say what his policy was. 'tlifb. take a listen. >> anyone who has entered the united states illegally is subject to deportation.
that is what it means to have laws and to have a country. >> extreme vetting. i want extreme. it's going to be so tough. we will break the cycle of amnesty and illegal immigration. we will break the cycle. you cannot obtain legal status or become a citizen of the united states by illegally entering our country. >> okay. that was the phoenix speech. this is kellyanne conway on sunday, also talking about immigration. this is the campaign manager, kellyanne conway. take a listen. >> we don't know where we'll be. we don't know who will be left. we don't know where they live, who they are. that's the whole point here. we have actually never tried this. he will rescind all those executive amnesties and try to work with the congress. at least he's trying to solve a problem. >> so steve, you have said earlier you think this policy is clear and definitive. it doesn't seem clear and definitive because each of the
surrogates seems to be saying something different. kellyanne conway seems to be saying something different. is what we are seeing here an attempt to try to get hispanic voters, latino voters, to take a second look at donald trump by saying he's softening but also to keep the hard liners who like trump because of the wall and the hard line on board? >> i would argue it doesn't have to be either/or. legal hispanic immigrants and legal immigrants, period, whether from asia, eastern europe or wherever they're from in the world, legal immigrants often despise the fact that illegal immigrants are able to hop the line and cheat and get in front of them and compete with them, by the way, in the labor market. it's not an either/or scenario. >> why is donald trump at 22%' in the latest nbc online poll with hispanics which is 5% less than self-deportation declaring mitt romney and why in the latest public poll he's at 23%, about the same, from august 20 to 28. why is he losing hispanic voters
because the vast majority obviously of hispanic voters are either born in the united states or people who lawfully migrated here. >> i will be the first to concede we have an uphill battle of convincing voters of color we have their policies at heart and have their backs, frankly, in terms of policy. i want to convince them, i think donald trump does, too, that the democratic party has taken them for granted for far too long. it's not so much that their lives matter, it's that their votes matter to the democratic party. we are telling them something very different. donald trump went to detroit -- >> wait. we are going to get into that. that's not what we are talking about here. we are talking about hispanic voters and immigration. fernand, do you think it is possible to have in the same coalition hard line anti-immigration voters including people of the alt-right who have a racial reason for wanting non-european immigration to stop and hispanic voters? >> no. i will tell you why. you have just seen in those clips why we should stop calling hillary clinton the democratic
nominee and start calling her the presumptive president-elect. donald trump has touched the third rail issue, immigration. this is not flip-flop. this is a face plant for donald trump. he was elected the republican nominee on an iron-clad understanding with republican primary voters that every single undocumented immigrant, every single one would be deported if you were elected. he used that bullying tactic to elbow aside jeb bush, john kasich, rand paul, ted cruz, marco rubio, the list goes on and on. the only thing that those extremists on undocumented immigrants hate more than leaving a single undocumented immigrant in this country is having hillary clinton president of the united states. this is why they will turn on donald trump because i still believe that even though hillary clinton is going toin this election, she would have been very vulnerable to a challenge by some republicans and the con of the donald trump candidacy was to elbow aside some of the republicans who might have beaten her and instead now backing off on his signature
issue, let's make no mistake about this, anything less than the deportation of all 11 million undocumented with donald trump as president is a backing off, a face plant on his signature issue and it's already cost him this election. >> that's simply not true. that's simply not true. >> how is it not true? >> the bedrock principles are no citizenship. if you came here illegally you can -- >> he has wavered on that. he also at one point was not clear whether or not he supported birthright citizenship. he has been on both sides of that, too. for you to say he never wavered, there's a reason -- >> he wavered in the last 48 hours. >> how is this even a conversation? >> he has said consistently from day one and he's never wavered, secure the border -- >> he said he never wavered. that doesn't mean he never wavered. >> no, he's never wavered. if you come here illegally you cannot become a citizen. period. he has never wavered on that. >> the reason we are having this conversation is that nobody even on your side, in the republican party, knows what donald trump's
immigration policy is other than that it's hard line which turns off hispanic voters. i did today go to the eastern parkway labor day parade. one of the things that's really great is that you can come from somewhere like guyana, jamaica, and you can hold on to that heritage, be proud of it, wave your flag, and still also be part of the fabric of the country. it isn't just hispanics who are immigrants. there are immigrants of color who are black, who are of all races. does this message that donald trump has delivered, whatever the muddle is, does it hurt him further with those immigrants, non-hispanic immigrants? >> absolutely. this is another as you talk about the third rail of immigration, the often missed conversation about immigration is that it's always concentrated on latinos and hispanic and folks from mexico and never sort of the totality of the immigration that this country experiences. we mentioned before from europe,
from eastern europe, from africa, from everywhere, everyone wants to come here. everyone is allowed to hold on to their heritage except if you are latino or if you are african, you know, if you are black. right? so because no one ever disparages at least in this current time because there was a time i ttalians were. >> i just want to make the point you are absolutely right. we are out of time. we will have you guys back. thank you, all. i was told to hold this up higher. people can't see it. there it is. it was from my honk and wave earlier. coming up in the next hour, one of the presidential debate moderators says the candidates are free to lie all they want. he's not going to correct them. to monitor refinery operations, so our engineers can spot potential problems from any angle. because safety is never being satisfied.
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