tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC September 6, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
country's direction? are they ready to sign their name to one more underwriting of the country's establishment, or are they ready, given the chance, to take a choice on shaking up the american political system to its roots, to its foundations, to make the politicians of this country, of both parties, shutter? to take a chance at putting a man like donald trump in lincoln's chair? that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> the scams, the frauds, the questionable relationships -- >> labor day sprint is on, and hillary clinton, unloads. >> he clearly has something to hide. >> tonight, renewed controversy over the trump foundation and alleged pay for play. as team clinton thinks they've found the campaign's first real scandal. >> of course i asked donald trump for a contribution, that's not what this is about. >> plus, inside trump's big national security push today. >> a short number of years ago,
wasn't even a word. now the cyber is so big. >> unpacking the new nbc news battleground map. reporter gabriel sherman on today's massive headlines from fox news, and the new push from the hispanic chamber of commerce, to block the vote in the wake of this pch. >> if you don't do something about it, you gonna have taco trucks every corner. >> when "all in" starts now. good evening from new york, i'm joy reid, in for chris hayes. with labor day behind us and 63 days left until election day, hillary clinton is moving to turn the tables on donald trump. telling reporters on her campaign plane today that when it comes to his allegations of corruption, trump needs to look in the mirror. >> his trump foundation has been fined for illegal activity, when it made a political contribution to the attorney general of florida at the time she was
being asked by her constituents, to investigate trump university because of the effects that these people that she's responsible for had experienced. >> for weeks, trump and his allies have been accusing clinton of pay for play, alleging without a shred of legitimate evidence that as secretary of state clinton handed out political favors, in exchange for donations to the clinton foundation. he was at it again tonight at a rally in north carolina. >> hillary clinton using -- and you know this -- she was using state department to dole out special favors and access to her friends and to her donors. totally special favors. it's called pay for play. >> trump continues to make that attack even though he boasted about giving money to politicians in exchange for them doing his bidding when he was still just a businessman. >> i give to everybody. when they call, i give. and you know what, when i need
something from them, two years later, three years later, i call them, they are there for me. >> when i want something, i get it. when i call, they kiss my [ bleep ]. okay? it's true. they kiss my [ bleep ]. >> wow. in september 2013, according to public records, the donald j. trump foundation donated $25,000 to a political committee associated with florida's attorney general, pam bondi. the donation came just four days after bondi's office indicated that it was considering joining a new york state lawsuit against trump university. bondi subsequently decided not to join the trump university lawsuit. bondi admits she personally solicited a donation from donald tru trump. though a bondi representative said the solicitation came weeks before her office announced it might join the lawsuit. trump seems to be denying the conversation with bondi took place at all. >> no, no -- i never spoke to
her. first of all, she's beyond reproa reproach. she's a fine person. never spoke to her about it at all. >> pam bondi? >> she's a fine person. never spoke to her about it at all. >> bondi said no one in her office opened an investigation into trump university and that there was no basis to do so. today she added to her defense the claim that she's being used by clinton for political gain. >> let me tell you, i will not be collateral damage in a presidential campaign, nor a woman bullied by hillary clinton. this is about her trying to deflect everything she did as secretary of state. >> last week, "the washington post" reported and nbc news confirmed that trump paid a $2,500 penalty to the irs in connection with the donation to bondi after a complaint from a watchdog group. because charities like the trump foundation aren't allowed to make political donations. they also reported in 2013, the trump foundation did not notify the irs of the donation to
bondi. instead listing a donation, also for $25,000, to a kansas chair with a name similar to that of bondi's political group. representatives for the trump organization told "the post" that trump has now reimbursed the foundation for the $25,000 from his personal account. and they blamed the improper filing on a series of mistakes and clerical errors. a trump spokesman telling nbc news, this was a minor issue that was brought to the attention of the foundation and addressed immediately. after he said he never spoke to her about donating to her campaign, he was asked what he expected to gain for the donation? >> i've known pam bondi for years. i have a lot of respect for her. never spoke to her about that at all. just have a lot of respect for her as a person, and she's done an amazing job as the attorney general of florida. >> joining me now, steve cortez,
surrogate for the trump campaign. always good to talk to you. >> thanks for having me. >> i spoke to you last time when you came on the air with us on the holiday. i asked you about this, what certainly does appear to the naked eye, to be an exchange of an donation for backing off of an investigation. and this is what you said. i want to let you take a listen to it. >> donald trump is a private citizen. yes, he's admitted that to some degree, there was pay to play. that he tried to get access to politicians. which, by the way, significant business people do all the time. >> so do you stand by that? that there was pay to play, that business people do that all the time? >> i do not. and i'm glad you have me on. i admit when my candidate made a mistake. i made a mistake there. i was talking about a broader issue, which is that business people, particularly very successful ones, they pay to play, meaning they want to have a seat at the table and they
want to drive policy, but it made it sound like i was talking about this specific case. and i don't believe that at all. i'm glad i can clarify that today. i don't think remotely that donald trump was pay for play in this case. and here's the reason i say that. the fact of the matter is, new york is literally the only state of all the attorneys general of 50 states, the only state that took any actual action here, the new york attorney general, who is an incredibly politicized attorney general. the other 49 states decided there was nothing here. there's no there there. donald trump didn't pay off all 49 of them. he does give money to, as a private citizen, to many politicians who he believed in pro-growth messages and pam bondi in a state of florida, where he has enormous holdings and has built many jobs and significant businesses, he supports her on the philosophy, absolutely. but there's no pay to play here, and i'm glad i can clarify that.
i misspoke, quite frankly. >> i'm glad you clarified that. but not all 50 states decided to investigate trump university, despite many complaints of people who felt they were bilked by the university. you have two other attorney generals who did. there's been more pushback in terms of texas's attorney general, saying there was a large gap of time. but in pam bondi's case, the gap between the donation and the decision not to pursue the case was literally four days. how do you explain that small gap of time? >> joy, i will -- listen, again, i will admit when i'm wrong. i admit when my candidate, when the optics look troublesome. and the four-day gap, it looks troublesome, it does. but always, let's keep that in context. let's say it was pay for play,
and i'm not saying it was, but let's say it was, $25,000 to the attorney general of florida, if we want to compare that to $200 million to the clinton foundation for the government of the united states signing off on selling 20% of our total uranium capacity to the russians in scale -- >> you keep bringing up a story that i've never heard up before. i know you want to get that talking point out and i want to stay on topic. >> it's not a talking point. >> you said you admit the optics of that four-day gap look bad. what about the idea of saying it was a different charity? why would the trump organization claim they'd given the money to a completely different charity and not just admit that it went to pam bondi, when she admitted she asked for a donation? >> she did ask for a donation. and the details here are boring. but down the line, the clinton -- excuse me. the trump organization thought that the organization she was talking about, which supports her campaign, was a charitable
organization. and so the trump foundation thought it was a charitable to charitable donation. >> are you saying that the trump foundation did not believe it was giving money to pam bondi's organization? that they accidentally donated to her? because they're not saying that. >> it was an error. >> how did they end up giving it to a completely different organization? >> it had the same name. the details arie boring. if we want to talk about nefarious donations, let's talk about saudi arabia giving tens of millions of dollars to the clinton foundation. >> the reality is that all of the donations to the clinton foundation were discoverable. they were in a database that people were able to search, and there was no money going to the clintons themselves. no direct benefit to themselves. >> that's not true. >> it was charitable in exchange
for nothing. you're asking for a lot of benefit of the doubt. but you've given no benefit of the doubt, despite the a.p. tried and didn't find any pay for play. just said it's optics. here we have what does look like a quid, a pro, and a quo, and you are saying, give us the benefit of the doubt. >> i'm admitting that i don't love the optics of a four-day gap. that's trouble somesosome. but this is peanuts. >> it's not peanuts. >> the clintons spent $50 million on travel. that is not a foundation. >> i'm going to end it here, but i can promise you, we'll talk more about the media later. but if the a.p. or any media organization had a pay to play on the clinton foundation, trust me, it's all we'd be talking about. this is not peanuts.
it's troublesome. but good on you for admitting that it doesn't look quite kosher. joining me now, paul waldman, contributor to "the washington post," author of a piece headlined "trump's history of corruption is mind-boggling," so why is clinton supposedly the corrupt one. also with me, molly ball for "the atlantic." you just heard the defense put forward by steve cortez, very enthusiastic surrogate for donald trump. but he's tried to say that the clinton foundation is much worse than what looks like a very direct case of pay to play. how do you respond to that? >> i think we should look at the two different cases separately. it's really not a case of what's worse and what's better. i think each of them should be examined individually. and one of the points i've been making is that the clintons, when it comes to this kind of issue, hillary clinton gets examined in a different way than donald trump does. with trump, there's so much trump news going on, that what
tends to happen with stories like this, and what was what's happening until a day or two ago with this story, some news organizations, in this case "the washington post," will do a story about it, that one reporter will report, and then it gets published and it disappears, and we don't talk about it again. and you have a whole string of these kinds of issues, whether it's trump university or the trump network, or this case with pam bondi, where there's a story or two, and we move on the next time he says something outrageous. the difference is, when it comes to hillary clinton, when there's something like the release of a new batch of e-mails, there's an all-hands-on-deck mentality, where dozens of reporters will be assigned to it, to investigate every nook and cranny to see if there's anything there that looks untoward. and even if there isn't, it drags out over the course of days and weeks and gets mentioned again and again and again. whereas most of these trump stories, they land and they just
disappear. >> yeah, i think paul krugman was getting to that same issue when he wrote a column, excoriating the media, including his own newspaper, saying hillary clinton gets gored. he writes, many of trump's multiple scandals, what appear to be clear pay-offs to state's attorneys general to back off investigating trump university, get remarkably little attention. indeed, the associated press story admitted in the story that they didn't find any direct quid pro quo. it was all about optics and about her meeting with nobel peace prize winners. why is it these two are covered so differently? >> i think the sheer volume of outrageous stories involving donald trump poses a challenge to the news media, because there is always something new, because there are so many scandalous things that he's been involved
in, coming one after another. also, there's a difference in the way this plays into the candidate's narrative, or positioning. you have trump basically admitting, basically selling himself as someone who bribes politician. and so the fact that these things come out that kind of look like he's bribing politicians are not that off-brand for him. and he's painted hillary clinton as being the nexus of a corrupt system, not the briber, but the bribee, which is a significant difference, the alleged bribee. so this plays into his narrative about a whole corrupt system of people whose personal and professional dealings are intermingled in government. so it contributes to the crooked hillary picture that he has portrayed. it's our job as reporters to talk about what the candidates say and to fact-check it and hold them accountable, but also to understand what voters are hearing. it's clear that what voters have heard about hillary clinton has a lot to do with this narrative, and of course we should portray what the facts are and report on
both candidates fairly and truthfully, but it's our job to understand why voters are getting that impression as well. >> isn't it the case, they're hearing it from us? so what voters are hearing is the narrative as repeated by the media. so this sounds like a circular thing. molly saying, we need to tell voters what they're hearing, but they're hearing it from us. >> right, those narratives don't drop down from the sky on stone tablets. they're created over the weeks and months and years, on the decisions that journalists make the decision on what things to report. with the clintons, you have this 25-year history, where they've done a lot of things that rn questionable, or skated close to the line. and you have a lot of non-scandals that were successfully whipped up to the point where there's a presumption on the part of a lot of people in the media, that whenever something like this happens, even if the facts don't really support any kind of nefarious goings on, then
there's something there. if there's smoke, there must be fire. and you see that in a lot of the way these stories get covered. when you have a batch of e-mails that gets released and you see somebody tried to get some favor but didn't get it, it's still reported as though it's something nefarious. >> we are out of time. thank you very much. still to come, confessions of a clinton reporter. one journalist's indictment of the media unspoken rules and double standards for covering hillary clinton. and some important perspective on the list of 88 military leaders who endorsed trump today. and why hillary clinton says the trump campaign is one long insult to those who have worn the uniform. that story in two minutes. it's easy to love your laxative... ...when that lax loves your body back. only miralax hydrates, eases, and softento unblock naturally. so you have peace of mind from start to finish.
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by nbc news and the iraq and afghanistan veterans of america, and airing right here on msnbc, both hillary clinton and donald trump have been touting their national security chops on the campaign trail. in a town hall style event in virginia this afternoon, the republican nominee took questions from his highest professional military supporter, retired general michael flynn. >> to stay on isis a little bit, you have described military, cyber, financial, and ideological -- >> cyber is becoming so big today. it's becoming something that a number of years ago, a short number of years ago wasn't even a word. and now the cyber is so big. and you know, you look at what they're doing with the internet, how they're taking -- recruiting people through the internet, and part of it is the psychology. because so many people think they're winning. and you know, there's a whole big thing, even today's psychology, where cnn came out with a big poll that trump is winning, it's good psychology.
>> today, 88 retired generals and other military officials endorsed trump in an open letter. among the few familiar names on that list, retired lieutenant general william boykin of the u.s. army, who in 2003 cast the war on terror in religious terms, saying, quote, we are a christian nation and the enemy is a guy named satan. then there's retired air force lieutenant general thomas mcinerney. who in 2010 publicly backed an army doctor refusing to deploy to afghanistan because he didn't believe obama was born in this country. years ago, there was an ad supporting mitt romney. at a rally in florida today, hillary clinton accused her opponent today of disrespecting military service members. >> trump companies have fired veterans because they had to take time off to fulfill their
military commitments. and we all saw him disparage the khans, a gold-star family, who lost their son in a car bomb explosion in iraq. his whole campaign has been one long insult to all those who've worn the uniform to protect our most cherished american values. >> joining me now, charlie pierce from esquire. let's give trump a grade, he sat with general flynn and said the cyber is so big now, and then he pivoted to his cnn poll. what did you think? >> i mean, you have -- given the fact it was a house audience, with a house emcee, you give him a b for doing that fairly well. i mean, that pretty much assumes that the bar is located about 15 feet below the surface of the earth, but that's the way it goes. >> and let's talk about the clinton retort to that. because here basic case is that the trump campaign itself is an
insult to people who have worn the uniform. let's play the clinton campaign ad that's out right now, called sacrifice. >> i'm hillary
clinton and i approve this message. >> i know more about isis than the generals do. >> john mccain, a war hero. >> he's not a war hero. he's a war hero because he was captured. i like people that weren't captured. >> donald trump compared his sacrifices to the sacrifices of two parents who lost their son in a war. >> what sacrifice have you made for your country? >> i think i've made a lot of sacrifices. built great structures. i've had tremendous success. >> those are sacrifices? >> it's a pretty powerful ad, but donald trump, by the polls, is doing better with military families than hillary clinton is. is that the kind of ad you think that can cut into that lead? >> i think it ought to. but you think it ought to have cut into it six months ago and it hasn't. so what do i know about anything in this campaign. i think one of the things that interests me about this and will
certainly interest me tomorrow night when you have your town hall with the two of them, i think secretary clinton is going to give you sophisticated policy answers. i think donald trump is going to beat his chest. now the problem with those two is, number one, beating your chest is much better television. and number two, there is a feeling out there in the country that it's just dying for donald trump to go three consecutive days without lighting his hair on fire. and if he sits there tomorrow night and acts like a tough guy, but not a crazy guy, he's going to get an immense number of points. and the other thing that i find very interesting, particularly in light of what the president did today in laos, is to notice how much of our politics and culture and our very lives have been militarized since september 11th. foreign policy debates are virtually -- well, it's a little bit about trade now, which is a good thing. but by and large, they're all
about the military posture. even the backlash against cap c -- colin kaepernick was framed in military terms perfe. so the mixture of foreign policy and military policy has to be nuanced. and that's the kind of thing i'd like to hear from both of them tomorrow night. how they're going to handle that mixture. >> thank you for reminding us that politics is theater. and one reason donald trump has been able to stay in it, he understands the theater. charlie pierce, many thanks. and the commander in chief forum, hosted by nbc news and the iraq and afghanistan veterans of america will air right here on msnbc at 8:00 p.m. tomorrow night. new polling shows donald trump leading clinton, and hillary clinton leading trump in texas. making sense of the barrage of
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do i think there is a different standard for trump than for me? and do i think that a lot of these issues that are raised about trump are dismissed because somehow the american public has factored into their assessment of him, you know, that that's the kind of guy he is, right? and i can only say, look, this is not new to me. you can go back and look at a lot of what has been said about me by so many people, going back 25 years, and so it's something that i've just accepted. >> on her campaign plane today, hillary clinton answered a question about whether the press
might treat her with a different standard. we should note that pretty much every presidential campaign criticizes their press coverage at some point. but after decades in the national spotlight, what if it's possible to detect trends in the way hillary clinton has been covered? the headlines, confessions of a clinton reporter. the media's five unspoken rules for covering hillary. the author of that piece will join me ahead. you push and pull and struggle and fight
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to the consternation of many, the new cnn poll was just released, and trump is winning. meaning -- meaning, you're winning. i'm not winning. you're winning. >> with 63 days to go until the election, there's a bevy of new data, as we head into the final stretch. but the question is, what to make evof it all. getting the most attention is a new cnn poll that shows donald trump with a two-point lead over hillary clinton among likely voters. but when cnn moves from likely voters to registered voters, then it's clinton with the narrow lead, three points over trump. more on those differences and what they mean in a moment. but for now, let's look at some of the polling which will tomorrow which candidate gets the 270 electorate votes needed to become president. right now, nbc's battleground map has clinton with a 272-174
electorate lead before key swing states are factored in. it shows texas as likely to go republican, "the washington post" has a new poll that shows trump is struggling in places republicans have consistently. joining me now to help make sense of cornell belcher, former pollster for the democratic national committee. let's start with the cnn poll. trump is always happy when he gets good polls, so he made this his talking point today. when i dug through, and when the team here at "all in" dug through the cross tabs, we found that number one, the registered voter sample in the poll is actually larger than the likely voter sample. and she's winning in the registered, losing in the likely. and then in the way that they did their demographic mix, for their likely voter sample, 28%
of people they sampled describe themselves as democrats, 32 as republicans, 40 as independents, which is not what the real electorate is. there are nor democrats than republicans in the actual electorate. why would a polling firm structure their sample that way? >> you know, it is really odd that -- because it doesn't look anything like the actual electorate has looked the last couple times around. there should have been red flags to cnn and that polling sample all along the line there and how completely out of line with what the last couple elections have looked like. why none of those red flags stopped them and made them rethink some of what they were doing, or made them wait or go back in the field, it's kind of odd to me. it really is odd to me. they are an outlier here, when you look at the demographics of that poll, it looks like a universe of voters that quite
frankly the last couple elections does not bear out what their world view is. part of this issue is, you know, good polling is both an art and a science. you know, you can know the science, but if you don't get the art part of it right, it's problematic, in understanding sort of who your electorate is going to be, is part of that art. who you let in as a likely voter is part of that art. i think in 2012, a lot of the romney polling, a lot of the republican polling, you know, they didn't let in a more diverse, younger universe of voters, and that's why they went into election day thinking they were going to win, when we on the obama campaign did let that in and we understood we were going to win on election day, and they did not. >> a lot of pollsters, where they make their bread and butter is not on the registered voter sample. but these polling companies go on a limb when they structure their likely voter sample and
some firms like gallup made their samples seem more republican. in this case, that does seem to be helping donald trump. but they are also showing him gaining among independents and, like, white men. could there be an underlying trend they're catching even if their sample looks a lot more like a midterm electorate than a general election? >> no, i think that's right. we are in love with the horse race number. what i argue all the time, the horse race number is the least important number in a poll. because the horse race number is the most fluent number in a poll. it's going to change over time. what is important are the underlying factors in a poll about issues and about sort of where voters are. >> right. >> truth of the matter, if you go back to 2012, barack obama had some really strong advantage over mitt romney on fighting for the middle class. >> sure. >> making hard work pay. those were just as predictable for some of us -- >> as the horse race.
before we go, i want to really get in. sorry to stop you. you participated in a focus group that talked about some softness among black millennial voters in terms of their interest and excitement about the campaign. i want to play you a sound bite. donald trump was on bill o'reilly tonight and he was asked, if he's not doing well with black voters because of birtherism. take a listen. >> so you think your birther position has hurt you among african americans? >> i don't know. i have no idea. i don't even talk about it anymore. >> it's there. it's on the record. >> i don't know. i guess with maybe some. i really don't know why. but you're the first one that's brought that up in a while. i don't think so. >> so very quick compound answer from you. number one, do you think democrats should be concerned about lack of strong support among black millenials and is
birtherism hurting him overall? >> i think democrats need to be concerned that young african americans who were cynical about politics before barack obama, are turning cynical again, regardless of who the top of the ticket is. and donald trump is struggling with african americans and hispanics because of racism, plain and simple. >> cornell, thank you. another cable news earthquake today, fox news settles a roger ailes' lawsuit and one of their primary anchors leaves. gabriel sherman has the latest. but first tonight's tasty thing 1 and thing 2 coming up next. no, only lawyers do that. so when you got rear-ended and needed a tow, your insurance company told you to look at page five on your policy. did it say "great news. you're covered!" on page five? no. it said, "blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah..." the liberty mutual app with coverage compass™ makes it easy to know what you're covered for and what you're not. liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance.
thing 1 tonight, an actual taco truck showed up on donald trump's corner. it's the latest reaction to comments made last week on this show by the founder of latinos for trump, marco gutierrez. >> we need to understand that this is a different time and we having problems here. >> what problems? what problems are you talking
about? >> my culture is a very dominant culture. and it's imposing and it's causing problems. if you don't do something about it, you gonna have taco trucks every corner. >> so on saturday, trump visited a black church in detroit as part of his new shore up the white suburban vote by appearing to court people of color strategy. while he was inside there were protesters gathered outside. one brought more than a sign. the owners of a taco truck rolled up, parked it in the hope that the republican presidential candidate might glimpse it on his way in, according to npr. it was a smart business decision, the truck was so popular, they wound up resorting to surge pricing, which upped the cost of a tasty taco treat by a dollar. american enterprise. but that wasn't the only response. we'll tell you about something that could have real implications and i'll give you a hint.
it's quacalled guac the vote. that's thing 2 in 60 seconds mp '. i had trouble getting there on time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a sleep aid plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. for pain relief that can last into the morning. ♪ look up at a new day... hey guys! now i'm back. aleve pm for a better am. afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown patbefore me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me.
in the days of social media reaction to the weird coded warnings of taco trucks on every corner, made by the founder of latinos for trump on this show, one hispanic organization is sensing an opportunity. the u.s. hispanic chamber of commerce announced guac the vote, saying its initiative, one delicious ambition, to have a taco truck in front of every polling place in 2016. they're encouraging taco truck owners to help register voters. in july, they made their first ever presidential endorsement backing hillary clinton over trump. the chamber's president and ceo says of the latest initiative taco trucks are american small business at its finest. 50 states of taco trucks at polling stations on election day would make one hell of a statement about the reality of hispanic patriotism in america.
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against her former boss and currently donald trump debate prep adviser, and six weeks after he stepped down, fox settled. "vanity fair" broke the news that fox paid out $20 million and offered an apology to miss carlson. the statement reading in part, we sincerely regret and apologize for the fact that gretchen was not treated with the respect and dignity that she and all of our colleagues deserve. joining me now, msnbc contributor and editor for new york magazine, gabe sherman, who keeps breaking news on this ever growing story. so let's get the latest on this. last time we spoke, you were saying that essentially to get around the clause in her contract, that she couldn't sue fox. gretchen carlson sued roger ailes. so why is fox the one settling? >> as i reported, a condition of his severance agreement with 21st century fox, he's indem niified, that they will cover his legal expenses. it's a maneuver, that even though she sued him personally, the parent company will pay his
legal expenses. and this will settlement impact the other women? because she's not the only one. >> as other people have reported and myself, there are other women, i think two, who have come forward, that are in final settlement negotiations. so we know that at least three women now, including gretchen carlson will have settled. >> will ailes have to pay any money out of his own pocket? >> too early to tell. the gretchen carlson case is closed. he will not be paying that. >> and greta van susteren was said to leaving the company. >> inside fox, they're saying she attempted to renegotiate her deal after he left. she exercised a clause in her contract that allows her to leave in roger ailes is no longer running the network. sources have told she she was unhappy at fox and decided now
is the right time to get out. >> what was weird about the exit statements, it was indicated she was unhappy with the climate at fox news, but she's been fully supportive of roger ailes. >> yes, while she supported him publicly, i have heard that she was not aware of the sexual harassment allegations against him. when she realized the scope of all the women coming forward, i think she was troubled. >> any idea where she's going? >> we'll have to wait and see. up next, a campaign reporter spills the tea on covering hillary clinton with five unspoken rules. that's next. nships you stick with.
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learn more at tiaa.org of all the things that have been written about hillary clinton lately, this headline caught our eye. confessions of a clinton reporter, the media's five unspoken rules for covering hillary. jonathan allen writes, as a reporter, i get sucked into playing by the clinton rules. this is what i've seen in my colleagues and in myself. according to allen, here are the rules. one, everything, no matter how ludicrous sounding is worthy of a full investigation by federal agencies, congress, the fast right-wing conspiracy and mainstream media outlets. two, every allegation is believable until it can be proven false, and even then it keeps a live of its own in the conservative media world. three, the media assumes clinton is acting in bad faith until there's hard evidence otherwise. four, everything is news worthy, because the clintons are the
equivalent of america's royal family. five, everything she does is fake, and calculated for maximum political benefit. joining me now is the author of that piece, jonathan allen, co-author of the book, hrc. and michelle goldberg, columnist at slate. i'm going to start with you, jonathan. backing up your statement of the hillary clinton rules, that she's sort of guilty until proven innocent, and that those rules don't apply to other people -- think donald trump -- mediaite posted an analysis of how much cable news covered trump's pay to play versus clinton's foundation story. there have been 644 mentions of the clinton foundation and pay to play on the three major networks. and the number of time pay to play and pam bondi have been mentioned, 11. your thoughts? >> i'm not surprised. look, i mean, there's more information available about
hillary clinton than any other public figure ever. a lot of it required to be disclosed. some of it voluntarily disclosed. reporters do what they can. they look at that and write about it and say, look, there's part a and part b and they must equal part d. we haven't seen any fire in the clinton foundation and state department nexus. now, i think people wonder whether the president will be unduly influenced to contribute money to her campaign or give money for speeches, they're reasonable. but the imbalance is telling, particularly where you have a situation with donald trump, where there's at least as much smoke there as with any of the clinton foundation transactions. >> and it's more specific. >> much more specific. >> and the other thing you've heard people complain about, the
media has dropped the issue of donald trump's taxes. let's listen to hillary clinton hitting that very topic today on her plane. >> the list goes on and on, the scams, the frauds, the questionable relationships, the business activities that have stiffed workers, refused to pay small businesses. so clearly his tax returns tell a story that the american people deserve and need to know. he clearly has something to hide. we don't know exactly what it is. but we're getting better guesses about what it probably is. >> given the fact that there are these rules we're talking about, and that she has such a toxic relationship with the press, they're not favorable toward her. is it going to work for her to goad the media into covering things like trump's taxes, et cetera? >> i don't think so. i think the problem with the media is not that they're not covering things that trump has done wrong. it's just that trump, there's so many outrages, so many
violations of political norms, so many scandals, so many lies, so much secrecy, that it becomes very scatter shot. the news expands to fit the space available. in hillary's case, it's a couple of things that are rehashed over and over and picked over for any little scrap of news. with trump, there's such a churn of, you know, new information, new outrages, that you can barely keep up with it. the weird thing about trump, he seems to benefit by replacing each old scandal with a new scandal. >> with another one. and jonathan, the thing that is weird and interesting, and frustrating for the clinton campaign, the things that you hear about her, they create an ingrained image that you hear reflected back from voters. whereas with trump, do you feel anything of his things are becoming engrained in his voters's minds? >> we think he's also been hurt by a variety of things he's said
and done. i don't think donald trump is getting off scott-free, as it were. the biggest prize in journalism is the takedown of the clinton empire. so reporters are going to go after that, editors are going to go after that. there's an incentive to do it. it sells. as a result, they have a tendency to then have a sort of connection of interest, i think, with the republican candidate here, of going after clinton and amplifying etach other. >> you have groups like larry claimans. can hillary clinton counterreact that by letting reporters on her plane and traveling with them? >> i think a little bit. the news expands to fit the space available. the fact that she doesn't give anything new ever, and also the secrecy does create a presumption, that she's hiding something, as opposed to to just that she hates the press and cherishes her privacy. so, i think, yes, establishing
more of a rapport with the press would be helpful and giving them something else to report on. >> do you see any trump rules developing, very briefly, jonathan? >> the trump rules i see developing, are no matter what reporters say about what he's done, he does not seem to be losing his base. >> and hillary clinton has a huge perception problem. >> and trump also has a perception problem. the point is, it's amazing that hillary's poll numbers are eroding in the wake of exoneration after exoneration after exoneration. and that doesn't seem to be abating anytime soon. but thoth. that is "all in" for this evening. a reminder tomorrow night live at 8:00 p.m. right here on msnbc, the commander in chief forum, hosted by matt lauer. you don't want to miss that. the rachel maddow show starts no now. how are you, my friend? >> i'm really excite body this thing tomorrow. we have to remind everybody, it
was a long weekend, your brain was wiped, but you have to remember that on your schedule. >> please take lots of pictures. >> my dad is a member of the intrepid so i've done the behind-the-scenes tour there and everything. i'm excited about it. >> thank you, my friend. >> bye. >> thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. okay, mississippi. mississippi, seriously. it's, you know, this is the start of the campaign supposedly. when mississippi comes up from the news in the way it did today, you could be forgiven for thinking that it might still be the weekend, maybe it's still monday morning, maybe you're asleep, maybe you're dreaming and this isn't the real world. but, no, today, in the real world, on the first day after labor day, which is the traditional start of the campaign season in american presidential election years, today mississippi, this news today about mississippi was apparently for real. it is almost imposs