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tv   With All Due Respect  MSNBC  September 12, 2016 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT

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senate. that is fall for tonight. chuck will be back tomorrow with more. "with all due respect" starts right now. i'm john heilemann. >> and i'm mark halperin. with all due respect to those conspiracy theorists who think hillary clinton has a body double, don't be ridiculous who would ever do? >> thanks, guys. we'll take it from here. ♪ it is a beautiful day in new york, and we're feeling great. try not to get too grossly generalistic. we devote this episode to covering two storylines that are currently defining the presidential race. one was self-inflicted. the other poorly handled. both have hillary clinton now on the defensive. in our afternoon meeting here at "wadr" we debated which is a bigger deal and, thus, which should lead our program.
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so we couldn't decide. flipped a coin and we decided to weave in some baskets in a moment. but first, democrats today are dealing with the fallout from a medical incident that forced hillary clinton to leave a september 11 commemoration ceremony at ground zero here in gotham city early yesterday. hours after video surfaced on social media, appeared it to show clinton stumbling as she was helped in a black van saying she was did goed with pneumonia friday, got dehydrate d at the event and overheated. her campaign aides were all over tv today explaining and insisting saying clinton has no other illnesses besides pneumonia, and they acknowledge, though, that the campaign should not have kept the media in the dark. >> i this i that in retrospect we could have handled it better in terms of providing more information more quickly and it is our intention in the next couple of days we're going to be releasing additional medical information about hillary
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clinton. there's no other undisclosed condition. pneumonia is the extent of it. this is the hillary clinton that as secretary of state logged all those miles on behalf of representing us abroad this is somebody whose impulse and instinct is to always press forward. that was her instinct on friday. that's the type of president shelt be, always look iing to squeeze more into a day, to do more and to push ahead. that's just who she is. that's how she's wired. >> no today this thing, several super prominent members of clinton's team refused to answer in live television interviews when they were pressed whether they were in the loop about her knpneumonia diagnosis. >> it was interesting because they say pneumonia friday but she was coughing very badly a week ago and even before that if you remember. this wasn't the first time. so it's very interesting to see what is going on. like you, i see what i see. the coughing fit was a week ago, so i assume that was pneumonia, also, i think it would have been. so something is going on, about but i just hope she gets well and gets back on the trail.
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we have to see what's wrong. i mean, we have to see what's wrong. whatever it is, it is, i'm ready. >> so health is an issue now, right? >> i think it's an issue. in fact this week -- this last week i took a physical and i'll be releasing when the numbers come in, hopefully they're going to be good. i think they're going to be good. i feel great. >> that was an uncharacteristically subdued donald trump. we rolled the wrong tape. clinton's associates of what they knew and when they knew it. >> did you know on friday that she was ill? did you know she had the diagnosis of pneumonia? and, if so, what did you advise her to do? >> well, she obviously saw the doctor on friday, got the diagnosis of pneumonia and in consultation with her doctor, she decided to power through that. >> did you know about it? >> i'm not going to get into details about who knew her m medical information. >> i'm just going to say the
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first time that i talked to hillary about this was sunday. i'll say it like that. i don't want to get into the character of communications, but i reached out to her as soon as the incident happened on sunday, and we had a good dialogue there. other than that, that was the first time we talked about this. >> so trump, as you heard in the sound bite we played previously, was more restrained than he normally would be in such a circumstance. clinton, as we heard from brian fallon, her spokesman, is expected to release additional medical records later this week and to get back on the trail. so, john, what are the implications of this lyclinton health story and the way the clinton campaign has handled it? >> i want to make a couple of really obvious points. the first is how long -- how important this story is depends on what hillary clinton's actual health situation it is and we have an account of what it is. i have had pneumonia, walking kn pneumonia, and had a similar thing happen to me. if that is all this is, this story will subside and not be of any real consequence. but that is an open question.
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the second thing is that it seems to me that the one thing that comes out of this, the fre pressure builds for both of them to be more transparent about their health, that's a good thing. the country deserves to know more about people of this age in terms of their physical condition is if they're about to be president of the united states. >> as you said, that's good. let's see what it says. i don't either will have anything disqualifying. the clinton campaign has once again hurt itself with the press as the watch guards of the public interests in terms of there being transparent -- the trump campaign isn't transparent either. i do believe -- i do believe it this has put her exposed to the extent to which she is somewhat isolated from her team. not a surprise to either of us. her campaign manager seemed to be telling kate snow he department know she had
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pneumonia. she's a very private person. i worry if she's elected president that, once again, she will, on a regular basis, put her own desire for privacy, understand that on a human level, but on a professional level if you want to run for president, you want to be president, unfortunately, you have to give up a little bit of privacy. >> the reality is we interviewed kellyann conway and you asked her who the doctor was who conducted trump's physical and she didn't know. they claim kind of exceptional special status in terms of how to deal with the press and how they deal with their senior teams. >> she is missing two of the last 60 days of the campaign. if she continues to get sick and sometimes it's hard to shake this, off the trail, not good. >> i'm going to add one more thing, just for anybody who says this isn't an important issue, in terms of the political implications, dan fowler, former dnc chair, is calling for an hrc, a hillary clinton contingency plan. there are some democrats who are spooked about this. democrats. not just republicans trying to
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capitalize. there are democrats who are spooked. that is not all. obviously we talked about the other big story and we'll get to that now. the clinton campaign trying to clean up her comments that she made on friday night when she declared at a fund-raiser that half of donald trump's supporters were, quote, a basket of deplorables. clinton expressed regret for those remarks a day later, but trump's team is trying to capitalize by putting $2 million behind this new ad in ohio, pennsylvania, north carolina, and florida. >> speaking to wealthy donors, hillary clinton called tens of millions of americans deplorable. >> you could put half of trump's supporters into what i skaul the basket of deplorables. the racist, sexist, xenophobic, islam phobic, you name it. >> people like you, you, and you deplorable. you know what's deplorable, hillary clinton viciously demonizing hard-working people like you. >> trump continued that line of attack during his speech to the national guard association in baltimore this afternoon.
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>> our support comes from every part of america and every walk of life. these were the people hillary clinton so viciously demonized. she called these patriotic men and women every vial name in the book. she called them racist, sexist, xenophobic, islam phobic. she called half of our supporters a basket of defloshls. >> mark, what do you think are the long-term political implications of this basket weaving story? >> unlike the health thing, this will go all the way through election day. democrats need to be pressed on what they think of it just as republicans were all pressed on what romney, mitt romney, said about 47%. i think that's a double standard right now that shouldn't exist. they should be asked what they
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think she said. she did apologize. that helped a lot. i think that the big controversy of overusing the word half will stick with her and you will see a lot of trump supporters energized by what she said, and the press will side with trump on this which is these days rare. >> i want to be clear about a couple things. it is clear donald trump has traded in racist, bigoted, nativist at times during the campaign. the right makes up the trump base of support. i think she was 100% right to call it out when she gave the speech and really nailed that right on top of the head. i do not think it was -- it's a wise thing to have done politically or otherwise to cast a blanket aspersion on what could be something like 30 million american voters if he gets the number of votes roughly that mitt romney got in 2012. and so i think it's going to give trump a talking point. it's going to rev up the
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republican base. might a little on the democratic side. if she had it to do over again, she would not say what she said that night. her apologize recognizes or is indicative of the fact she thinks she went a little off her skis on this. >> it's clear they realize there was a mistake. you don't attack the voters. she said half of them were economically disadvantaged and pitiabl pitiable. >> calling out bigotry is good. instances of bigotry, racism, good. blanket aspersions not good. >> we agree the two storylines will continue at least into the week despite the clinton campaigns that tamm pd them down. long-term, though, i've already said i think this one presents a bigger threat to her than the health story. do you agree with that? >> again, i go back to my very first answer. assuming that this was a garden variety case of walking pneumonia and other than that she is in fine health, assuming
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that's true -- >> assume away. >> assuming that, yes, this has longer political legs. if for some reason it turns out she has other health complications or other health issues, those could be much more significant than this it gaffe. >> i watched bill clinton in 1991 and 1992 campaign terribly sick, as he would say, sick as a dog, as donald trump might say, sick as a dog, and it was hard. it rendered him a less effective candidate. she, i think you've seen over the last week, i've coughed so hard with allergies i've gotten pneumonia. that can happen. she better hope she doesn't get sick again. it could keep her off the trail and more likely to make mistakes. >> when i had walking pneumonia and i went down with it, i was on vacation, and i spent the better part of a week really depleted and i'm 20 years younger than hillary clinton is. how long -- a couple days off the trail will help her but i don't think she'll be back to full strength by thursday and there's not many days left
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before election day. when clinton left ground zero, the ground zero ceremony early, there was a period of mass confusion among campaign reporters covering the event after clinton's team failed to give the media timely information about their candidate and her whereabouts and what was going on. the traveling press have long complained neither has agreed to follow the precedent of past nominee when is it comes to it transparency and the notion of the protected pool. the protected pool relates to reporters are to observe, a small subset, the candidates, all of their public events in case major news breaks or, let's be frank, something physically threatens happens to either of the candidates. there's a reason, of course, why another name for the protective pool is the body watch. so, mark, we agree that presidential nominees should have protective pools just as the president of the united states does. in the wake of what happened over this weekend there's going to be more pressure on these campaigns to adhere to the norms. will either succumb or will both
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succumb to the pressure? >> i think they've gotten past the conventions. they've gotten into the past labor day. i don't think either wants a full-time protective pool and neither needs it for the coverage. i don't see what leverage we have. we have to make clear this is not about the media. this is about the public interest, people who might be president in january. it's a horrible development. our colleagues have worked hard who cover the campaigns if full time to turn this around. it would be much, much better for everyone, including the candidates to get used to the notion that if you want to be a major party nominee you have to let the press be with you. i don't think it will happen. i hope i'm wrong. >> there are people out there in the world who the same way they complain when we want press conferences we want it because we want to strut and preen not because we want to hold them accountable on camera for the public interest. this is not about reporters' comfort or convenience. this is stuff can happen and reporters are trying to do their jobs and it's, again, in the interest of the public to allow them it to try to do their jobs
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by creating these situations where they can be with the candidate all the time. the leverage, with these two candidates, our leverage seems to be less than it's ever been even if we bang our hands on the table. >> there's a lot of hypothetica hypotheticals. what if that video didn't exist? all right, up next, we enroll in an electoral college math class. the numbers behind donald trump's most likely paths to victory, narrow as they are, when we come back. isaac hou has mastered gravity defying moves to amaze his audience. great show. here you go. now he's added a new routine. making depositing a check seem so effortless. easy to use chase technology, for whatever you're trying to master. isaac, are you ready? yeah. chase. so you can. they (engine revs) things about rain. like how(engine revs)nna fall. the things it does to your parade.
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welcome back. there has been a lot of focus on donald trump's narrow path to winning the white house this november. based on our many discussions with strategists in both campaigns and outside the campaigns, it would seem trump's sim mris and likeliest state-by-state victory scenario runs what we like to call the big four. if the republican nominee keeps the traditionally red states in his column, he will have to win florida, ohio, pennsylvania, and north carolina to cross the 270 electoral college threshold.
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these four states would give him 273 and make him our next president of these united states. >> all right. but then when you play with the other possibilities after that one, you look at the map, you see just how much of a tough road trump has. pennsylvania is a state democrats have won for nearly three decades consistently it at the presidential level, the biggest obstacle to sweeping the big four. it if he loses the keystone state his next simplest path is not that simple. florida, ohio, pennsylvania and north carolina. he would have to win two additional tossup states, iowa and nevada. then he would have to win new hampshire which the asosociated press has in the lean democratic column. even if deall that and that's tough to do, it would be 269-269 the electoral college and it would be thrown to the house where maybe trump would win but it would be complicated. so, to me, the big four is really a reason why they're f
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focusing on the four states so much because iowa right now a lot of polls show him ahead by winning new hampshire, what i call the silver state because i can never remember if it's nevada, that's tough. it's not impossible there are polls that show that state even. these two scenarios are the most likely. you can see one has no margin of error and one's got -- >> new hampshire has basically been a blue state for a long time. nevada, the demographics play strongly because of the number of hispanic votes. pennsylvania is in line with the voter trump is trying to get at. the white working class voter. i understand why they're trying to do it. if you listen to david plouffe and others, the registration advantage the democrats have, why they have won the past few cycles, there are strong reasons to think pennsylvania will again be fool's gold.
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>> the second scenario back up. how does trump maybe get over 269 with that additional map? one thing they talk about is maine where the electoral votes are apportioned by cd. they could win one in maine to make it 270 to 268. you look at the rest of the states, wisconsin, virginia, michigan, colorado, those are probably the only ones where he would have a chance to pick it up. you just see again trump has to do a lot of encroachment into blue states he's not currently that strong. on the other hand, if he can win three of the big four, again, a big if, but if he can win those, all states competitive right now, he has a chance to find it. but it's tough. >> this is why i don't think this needle threading strategy will work. the only way he can win is there's such a wave on his side towards the end that places that aren't currently in reach like virginia, a tight swing state, becomes a place like colorado.
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when we come back we'll ask our good friend from nbc katy tur what pepe the frog has to do with politics. anncr: want feedback that helps? verified reviews. another reason to join angie's list for free. this new ac guy is not that good. no he's not. anncr.: need job done right? search top-rated providers on angie's list. join for free. w...i was always searching for ways to manage my symptoms. i thought i had it covered.
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that grows along with you and your family. legalzoom. legal help is here. political correspondent katy tur covers the trump campaign. there's this most transparent or appear to be the most transparent war. what do we expect on medical
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records from trump? he says he's going to put things out. >> i've been going back and forth today trying to find out when he saw his doctor last, they're saying last week, but specifically what day, what city, which doctor, what he plans on releasing, is it going to be more than just my cholesterol level is this, my blood pressure is this. are we going to get family history? his personal history? has he ever had an operation for anything? >> what is the reason they're doing it? >> they believe that they can -- let's find out what they put out. so far the only thing we've gotten from the campaign in regards to his health is a letter saying he would be the healthiest guy ever to hold the white house. >> right. but do we even know who the doctor was yet? >> we don't. we've asked. >> the original guy has been widely derided and mocked given his appearance on some other issues. >> we don't know if it is the same gentleman or if it is somebody else that would not suffer the same mocking as this guy did. >> on her health, donald trump was uncharacteristically
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retrained. he didn't completely lay off. he did more than say we wish her the best. that is not the reaction we would have seen a month ago. >> you've seen giuliani go on the attack on this issue so many times as a surrogate talking about how she's frail and how she's very sick, and we've heard donald trump say repeatedly that she doesn't have the strength or stami stamina. >> nicolle wallace said there's no trump 2.0. what you see is what you get. this would seem to me to demonstrate, and you've covered it more than us, as much restraint as he's ever shown in a situation like this. >> i wouldn't call this trump 2.0 in any way. if you look at the positives it and negatives, donald trump going on the offensive saying she's very sick, look, she can't be president because she's not going to make it through the presidency, that we ward does he get? who is he convincing? on the other hand if he pays respect on 9/11, doesn't go on
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the attack, continues it for the day and is measured and wishes her well, a lot of folks will say, i expected him to go on the attack, to get very negative. mae this is a more mature donald trump. the reward outweighs the risk. >> i want to talk about the pepe the frog thing because it's quite fascinating. explain the pepe the frog meme and how it relates to our current events. >> "the daily beast" has a brilliant deep dive into who pepe the frog is, but needless to say it started out as this white nationalist underground symbol. it got co-opted into the mainstream. katy perry even tweeted an image of it once. now the white nationalist movement is trying to bring it back and make it their own again. they've done that successfully during this campaign season. and so you often see, and i'm sure you have this like i do on my twitter feed, people trolling you about donald trump and attacking you about donald trump will often have that face as
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their ape v avatar. it's become a dog whistle for the white nationalist movement. >> roger stone have re-tweeted things? >> roger stone tweeted an image of the movie poster "the expendables" but called it the deplorables. it's donald trump's face. pepe the frog face. there's also alex joan, the n e noted conspiracy theorist and my low, the alt-right head, if you will, or this icon of the alt-right in the image. donald trump jr. posted it on his instagram. a flood of reports came out that he is post iing a white nationalist symbol and also my low on his own instagram page. the campaign says that donald trump jr. just like his father denounces any sort of white supremacy but it's still on his instagram page. this is not the first time that they've been connected to white supremacists. donald trump has re-tweeted white supremacist.
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b bannon has ties in terms of trying to expand on their message. why get into it? >> and doing it at the moment they're trying to capitalize on the deplorables. >> katy tur. we'll have you back in a little bit after a block. up next, take a little bit more look at hillary clinton's health issues with some docs after this. ♪"all you need is love" plays my friends know me so well. they can tell what i'm thinking, just by looking in my eyes. they can tell when i'm really excited and thrilled. and they know when i'm not so excited and thrilled. but what they didn't know was that i had dry, itchy eyes. but i knew. so i finally decided to show my eyes some love. some eyelove. when is it chronic dry eye? to find out more, chat with your eye doctor and go to it's all about eyelove, my friends.
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keeping the power lines clear,my job to protect public safety, while also protecting the environment. the natural world is a beautiful thing, the work that we do helps us protect it. public education is definitely a big part of our job, to teach our customers about the best type of trees to plant around the power lines. we want to keep the power on for our customers. we want to keep our community safe. this is our community, this is where we live. we need to make sure that we have a beautiful place for our children to live. together, we're building a better california. "the new york post" is reporting that when hillary clinton left ground zero yesterday her van was directed to an emergency room before it changed course. the story suggests that a campaign operative decided mid route to go instead to chelsea lyclinton's apartment ditching police escort in the process.
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that story is right on the front of "the new york post" website. we're interested to see whether others will corroborate the story. we wanted to convey that to you before we go to our guests to discuss the medical side of the story, dr. john torres, an emergency care physician and msnbc medical contributor. dr. torres, just give us a sense of -- without -- well, give us a sense of in a situation if you had a patient who was hillary clinton's age who had an incident that occurred like this, would it be your inclination to send at that patient directly to the hospital, to an emergency room? >> let me put this in perspective. having worked in the emergency room, we frequently get ambulance calls and the drivers, paramedics and emts will say here is the situation. we have a 68-year-old female that collapsed due to heat environment, maybe some other issues going on, has pneumonia. my advice would be to bring them to the emergency room. we need to find out why they collapsed. we need to recover them, rehydrate them, probably iv fluids, and go from there to
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make sure nothing dangerous happened. to some extent i am surprised she was redirected from the emergency room. that would be the step that i would think would be logical in a situation like this. >> do you think if we asked 100 of your colleagues, all 100 would agree or is it a matter of judgment and opinion? >> i don't think 100 doctors will agree on anything but i think at least 98 of them would agree and say, yes, did he haef given the circumstances she's had, given the fact look iing a the video and having 20/20 hindsight she collapsed in the. a 68-year-old female, even without knowing the pneumonia part of it, you'd want to know why she collapsed and correct whatever is wrong because that's not normal. >> if she had been your patient friday and you diagnosed her with pneumonia, lots of people who are hard working involved in demanding profession work through illness. i think all three of us probably have worked when others might not have. so would you -- what would you have told her on friday, a 68-year-old woman with pneumonia, if she said i'm about
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to go on a cross-country trip? >> anybody, 68-year-old woman, man, i would say the same thing. here is the deal. your body needs time to recuperate, three to four days. you need good rest. i'm not talking bed rest but good rest away from exhaustion, away from stress. if you don't get that, two things might happen. number one, it will probably take a lot longer to recover. instead of ten days to two weeks, three or four weeks. number two, the other thing that might happen, at some point your body is going to get so exhausted and worn down it will tell you it's over. it's time to relax. i'm going to make you relax right now. i think that's what we saw there. her body got to the point it said you're not choosing to relax. i'm going to make you relax. i think that's what happened. >> what about the con tanlousness question around k w pneumonia. the campaign says hillary clinton is not contagious. we've now had reports that multiple campaign staffers also are sick, maybe with similar or exactly the same thing. chuck schumer now is saying he has pneumonia. just explain the contagiousness of pneumonia to the extent it exists.
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>> it's always kind of the chicken and egg thing. who gave what to whom? and you can imagine during a campaign she's doing a lot of handshaking a lot of baby kissing, all those things, where germs spread. this happens quite often, and we all are encompassed by germs. we all touch germs all the time. out of ten people who might get these germs, one might develop pneumonia and that could be for a variety of different reasons. once you get pneumonia, you're not going to give pneumonia but you might pass on the bacteria or virus that causes it and it's up to their body to fight it off and hopefully not develop pneumonia. you can imagine her crew there is basically campaign staff in an enclosed environment, frequently on buses and planes where they're passing these germs among each other. and the stress of the situation exhausts them, brings their immune system down, they're opened up to more of these illnesses. it doesn't surprise me they are getting more sick and it's spreading around the campaign staff. pneumonia is not con ttagious i
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and of itself but the bacteria that causes it can float around. >> hillary clinton's released more medical data than donald trump but none has released as much as some past candidates. what do you think are bottom line that must be released in order to give the public confidence that this is a complete sense of that person's medical status and history? >> as a doctor the first thing i ask for is what is your past medical history? what illnesses have you had, what surgeries have you had, what accidents have you had that could be contributing to what's going on now? on top of that i'd want to know what screening tests have you gounder and we're talking mammograms, any screening tests, what have they shown? are you still being followed because that have? have you had any biopsies because of that? a more thorough history, what medicines are you on right now, what have you been in the past, why were you able to come off them. like you said, we have some information from them but not enough to make good decisions. >> let's talk about colono
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colonoscopies, how many should they have had, when should they have most recently had one? >> the recommendations are to get one when you're 50 unless you have higher risk factors to, start twh you're 50 and depending on that one, they say ten years later, so get one when you're 60. if you've had some issues where they saw the first, they might say two or three years after that. again, we don't know because we haven't gotten that information. at a minimum probably two but possibly even more. >> really basic question here, again, hillary clinton is running for president. there aren't that many days left. she is eager to get back on the campaign trail. her campaign says that and we believe it given her work ethic, but if you had a patient who was not running for president and what happened to them is what happened to her yesterday, how long would you give them -- would you compel them to be on bed rest before you let them go back to work? >> what i it tell my patients, number one, you don't need to be on bed rest per se but rest, putter around the house, do crossword puzzles, watch tv, sit
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on the couch. three or four days of that kind of rest and two weeks of low-intensity work, not very strenuous work, not very exhaust ing work. she's on the campaign right now so she has to do what she has to do. i have other patients who are working and have to put food on the table. i tell them the same thing. if you don't rest, chances are you're going to extend this and you might get to the point your body says we're going to make you rest. >> so she is back at full steam in just two or three days. you're saying there's some risk. you think there could be a risk this recurs and gives her problems further down the road? >> definitely because she has not recovered from this pneumonia in two or three days. she is on antibiotics which is great. a great medical staff taking care of her. her body needs that timeo recover and if she doesn't give her body time to recover it's going to fight back. things are going to happen. it's going to take longer to recover or we might see what
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happened again. >> do plane flights retard recovery from pneumonia? >> the plane flights might help a little bit. you do get jet lag depending on where you're going which can exhaust you to a certain extent. you go out to the airport and by the time you get to where you're going you're just tired. but at the same time it does give her that opportunity to rest. it gets her the opportunity to be away from the crowds and the public and all the things she has to do where she has to bring her "a" game every single time, so it gives her that opportunity to rest which should help her recover. and hopefully, again, she can do that but more hopefully she can get the time periods she can rest and get away from it all. >> dr. john torres, thank you so much for coming on the show. coming up, we will talk to a couple of democratic strategist s about the state of hillary clinton's campaign and if you happen to be watching us in washington, d.c., listen to us on the radio at bloomberg 99.1 f.m. we'll be right back. i work 'round the clock.
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dizziness, or confusion. ask your doctor if you're tresiba® ready. ♪ tresiba® ready ♪ they automatically shrinkn itemthe pricesjet carts, of millions of other products. very impressive. whew... it's got a little kick to it. at, we're always looking for money saving innovations. with us now from washington, d.c., the democratic pollster and strategist joining us here in studio, liz smith, a democratic strategist, the former deputy campaign manager for martin o'malley's presidential campaign. liz is also the director of rapid response for president obama's 2012 campaign. and katy tur of nbc news is back with us. cornell, let me ask you first, which of the two things it
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currently going on with the clinton campaign, her health or remarks about donald trump supporters do you think represents a bigger threat to r candidacy now? >> i don't -- you know, her health is an issue but i'm not a doctor. i don't want to talk about that. i don't think the remarks she made about donald trump's voters actually offend the large swath of voters that were part of the obama coalition that she actually needs to win over. i think that's more of a problem for -- those people who are offended by those remarks, they were never going to vote for hillary clinton in the first place. so i'm worried more about those voters, particularly the young voters who are part of the barack obama coalition who are less than enthusiastic right now. >> liz, what do you think about how on this health thing, just tell me from a standpoint of as a communications professional that you are how do you think they handled the day yesterday? >> i think they have even a
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admitted not well. look, they face a pretty tough choice here from the beginning. one of the options here was to be transparent, and if they were and said up front she had pneumonia, they would have emboldened people like rudy giuliani and the quacks, not about who have mds, who are going out there and saying all of these irresponsible things on tv but the way they chose to handle it was not to be transparent. and the way it unfolded was worst case scenario. i don't think you could have scripted it worse. the problem there is not necessarily the question about her health, it underscores her biggest weakness as a candidate, that people think she is untrustworthy and she's not transparent and now she will have to go out and release her medical records anyway. it shows why transparency you might take a hit in the short run but in the long run it's a better policy. >> cornell, it's katy tur. i have a question for you. who wakes up and says hillary clinton isn't well, i'm going to vote for donald trump? >> i don't think -- i don't
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think anyone that's a persuadable voter wakes up and thinks that. i think the problem, and i think it's spot on with this, it does reinforce it a narrative that the trump campaign is trying to run with. look, the republicans going back for a long time now, and they certainly did it under george bush, they believe in the trade of strength in a way that we democrats have not believed in that strength. they would argue that this strength -- the trait strength is the most important trait for a presidential candidate. and what donald trump is certainly trying to do is present himself as a strong candidate putin-like, if you will. and while saying she's weak. she doesn't look presidential. and, by the way, he's done this fairly successfully through the primary. i can't believe to this it day that jeb bush was undone by low energy. >> and to the health point, the american people do have a lot of common sense. they know the people running for president aren't super human,
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and they are allowed to get sick. i think it was a little bit too protective, too much of the clinton people getting in their bunker mentality and not giving the american people the benefit of the doubt that they would take her word for it and understand that she has a very taxing schedule. >> cornell belcher first, again, a hypothetical but may correlate with the reality. if you had a choice between sending your candidate to it the hospital, the recommendation of medical professionals, or some place else that wouldn't cause a headline, candidate goes to hospital, would you ever say, yeah, you should avoid the public hit. don't go to the hospital? >> you have to go to the hospital and be transparent, but on to the point you were covering earlier, they see both campaigns, and campaigns on both sides and up and down the ticket now, they see less and less reason to talk more and more to you all because we have these thousand content providers all over the place we can talk to and they don't have to talk to
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you as much. >> lis, i'm not saying this happened. a candidate says i don't want to go to the hospital, it'll look bad. i want to go to somebody's house and rest and relax. and the doctor says you should really be going to the hospital? >> i would go with the doctor. whether they take my advice or not is up to them. to be more transparent and, look, let me make one more point here because it's been left out of the discussion is donald trump, we can talk about hillary clinton's transparency issues, but donald trump still is the least transparent candidate in modern history. no tax returns. still no medical records. i know he says he's going to release them thursday. it's not like she's running against a perfect messenger on the issue. >> because of that why is she not leading by a larger margin? if he is the least transparent, if he is dealing in deplorables, which is what she says, if these campaign rallies get violent, if he says the wrong thing
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consistently, why is this lead so small? >> neither of the candidates are perfect. i mean, they're the most unpopular candidates in history. so she is our candidate, though, and i think is vastly better and more qualified candidate than donald trump. but, you know, her campaign needs to understand that she does have these weaknesses and not re reinforce them and help americans trust her more. you can do that by being more transparent. >> cornell, let me come back to the question we asked you at the top of the segment here about the baskets and the deplorables. you said that you didn't think anybody who was offended by that would have been likely to vote for hillary clinton anyway. there is another set, though, right, the democratic base and then there's also kind of mainstream republicans who are uncomfortable with donald trump. do you think by her saying these things she gets maybe some benefit, either gyning up the democratic base or reminding mainstream republicans of the
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kind of people donald trump consorts with? >> first, i think if you look at the "washington post" poll and it shows that, what, 60% of voters out there think donald trump, in fact, does have bias against women and minorities. it's not like she's saying something that is out of the mainstream. but the problem is, and this we see time and time with democrats sometimes will pull back, we'll say something and then pull back. and that's a problem especially for the younger votes and the democratic base who say we want people who will fight, stand up for what you believe in and fight, and that also plays into the whole strength narrative. >> everybody stay with us. we'll take a break. we'll come back and talk about some research cornell belcher did on the obama coalition and hillary clinton's chances of reassembling it right after this. you don't just learn how to drive... or solve the world's problems... be a dad... "or something" and we don't just make sandwiches "or something" we hand-slice avocado,
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we are back with cornell belcher in d.c. and lis smith in the studio, also katy tur helping us out.
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cornell, one of the things was the research you have been doing. jonathan martin wrote about it in "the new york times." some focus groups you did and some polling that you did that identified some problems hillary clinton seems to be having with african-american voters and particularly with millennial african-american voters. tell us about that. >> first, you never want to wake up one morning and find your confidential work has been leaked and it's on the front page of the "new york times." that's a nightmare. that said, the problem is you do see with younger voters and young african-americans, in the obama campaign in '08 we expa expanded the electorate. early on in the obama campaign we talked about we're not going to be able to beat hillary clinton in the primary or the general election if we don't expand the electorate. 11% of our vote in 2008 were new voters. 62% of those new voters were, in fact, under 35, and they looked like the new america, browner
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than the rest of america. what does that look like in the real world in? in battleground states, as opposed to ohio being 12% african-american, it's 15% african-american and we get roughly the same vote as kerry did and win. if those voters don't come back and don't show back up, you have the john kerry electorate again as oppose d to the barack obama electorate. that's the number one problem for democrats. if she loses, she has a john kerry electorate. now these young voters have been cynical. i'm going to get in the weeds a little bit. i was also howard dean's pollster. if you talk to younger voters coming out of 2004-2005, it wasn't they didn't want to take part in change and do things for their community, they didn't think politics was a vehicle for it and they were cynical about the process and would talk about the recount and how bush stole that.
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in 2008 and 2012 barack obama was a different candidate. he inspired them. they fell in love. if it's hillary clinton or it it's joe biden or whoever, they were going to have a hard time inspiring -- again, sort of turning on these young voters who were part of the obama coalition. they were not, and this is what i told howard dean at the end of his chairmanship, we expand the electorate with a lot of voters who aren't necessarily democratic voters. they're obama voters. we have to know the difference. we will struggle unless we reconnect with them. >> now she gets 50% of those voters or 75% of those voters, is that enough to overcome the large turnout of potentially white, uneducated males the donald trump camp is trying to capitalize on. >> it's not her winning percentage. let's say she gets somewhere close to the percentage that barack obama got. it's about what the proportion of the electorate is, right? on election day if ohio -- if
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ohio is not -- if african-americans aren't making up 15%, 16% of the electorate, instead making of 10%, 11% of the electorate, it becomes difficult for her to win ohio because even looking into polls right now even again the post poll came out, it's not she's performing much better. in "the post" poll at 36% or 37%. it's not like she's getting 45%, 47% of the vote. she's not overperforming there. >> lis, the campaign is filled with millennials trying to find out how to sell hillary clinton to their fellow millennials. what more could they be doing? >> cornell, i understand how it must have been jarring to see the results of your focus group leaked. as a democrat, i would recommend all my fellow democrats to read the findings there. i think there are lessons there not just for hillary clinton but for democratic campaigns across the country. to your question, i think they
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should follow the advice of and the lessons that we've learned -- >> but how do you take the clinton brand and appeal to mill millen ials? >> this is the deal. barack obama was a once-in-a-lifetime candidate. she is not going to have the same inspirational appeal with young people that he did. other candidates wouldn't have either. once-in-a-lifetime candidate. what i do think she should do and i think, again, something we learned from cornell's findings, she needs to make an affirmative case for herself, and that's part of the getting people inspired to vote for her. right now the campaign has been a little bit of a dogfight. these personal insults and she's not laying out a case for why young black voters should vote for her. she's not talking about issues that they care about. >> okay. lis smith, we could talk about this all day and maybe we will on another day. thank you all. we'll be right back.
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we're covering all the latest on hillary clinton and her campaign at we'll see you tomorrow. coming up, "hardball" with chris matthews. sick day -- let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. hillary clinton is in chappaqua resting from a weekend that wasn't supposed to go this way. diagnosed with pneumonia on friday, she decided to, as they say in big-time sports, play hurt. as can often happen that turned out to be a bad call. under the hot sun of sunday morning her condition turned for the worst. you can judge the pictures for yourself because video surfaced of clinton waiting to get into her van after leaving the ceremony early yesterday. she was


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