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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  September 20, 2016 11:00am-12:01pm PDT

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tolerance and respect for all human beings. >> that's president obama at the united nations. earlier today he made his eighth and final speech to the assembly, using his time to take a long view of his legacy and indirectly attack donald trump. we're joined by nbc's ron allen from outside the united nations. if there's one thing we need to know about the president's remarks today. what is it? >> reporter: that the president believes am a global world, we're all interconnected. it's not time for isolationism. it's time for the u.s. to be involved in the u.n. and work out solutions to the world's problems in a multilateral way. on issues of trade, education. the president is saying that we have to be inclusive. we can't be exclusive. yes, that echoes a lot of what's happening in the election. there are not so subtle attacks at donald trump. this is mostly about a broad view of the president's view of the world. as you said, cementing his legacy. >> nbc's ron allen. thanks so much.
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that does it for us this hour. we're back on the road tomorrow in battleground ohio. in the meantime i'll turn it over to my colleague, thomas roberts. >> great reporting there on the historic moment for the president. he know how his september is going, october he'll be hitting the campaign trail hard for hillary clinton. good to have you with me. law enforcement sources telling nbc news today that back in 2014 ahmad rahami was the subject of a review by federal agents. we're learning rahami left behind a note in a journal. the 28-year-old now recovering from gunshot wounds at university hospital in newark, new jersey. our reporters are on the ground with the very latest in this investigation. i'm joined by pete williams, nbc's justice correspondent, msnbc's outside rahami's home in elizabeth, new jersey. pete, let's talk about the encounter the family had with the fbi from years ago. how did they get on the radar of the fbi?
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>> reporter: at least the fbi took a look at the family. what happened was there was a domestic violence scene when the family was living in perth amboy, new jersey. they say ahmad rahami stabbed his brother in the leg. while all that was going on, while all the commotion was going on, a neighbor told the police that she heard rahami's father say, you're a terrorist, get out of my house. when the police heard that from the neighbor, they told the fbi. the fbi talked to the father and he said, no, no, no, i said that in the heat of the moment. i don't think he's a terrorist, but as long as you're here, i think he's hanging out with unsavory people like gang members. so the fbi opened a review. they interviewed family members, interviewed other people and they concluded there was no indication, no evidence whatsoever of any terrorism connection, but they interviewed the father again who said again, no, no, i said it in the heat of
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the anger. i don't think my son is a terrorist. and the case was closed. >> i want to talk about the journal investigators found. rahami's father spoke to reporters this morning. how is he characterizing the exchange that he had with the fbi? >> reporter: well, thomas, he did not elaborate on it. that was something that threw journalists office here at the time he was saying it because he came out, there was a big media skirm around him and he began to talk saying he told the fbi -- or he spoke to the fbi two years ago, but when i actually pressed him on that, what exactly he said, he didn't have much to say. take a listen. what did you tell the fbi two years ago? what did you say to them? two seconds, two seconds. what did you -- did you speak to the fbi two years ago? >> reporter: now, in between that kind of moment where he walked out of the front door, got in his car and drove away, we had a chance to ask him.
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we kept asking him, what did you say to the fbi? they knew. the fbi knew. i spoke to him two years ago. now with pete's reporting we have a better sense of what this means, that disturbance triggered by a neighbor, the fact the fbi spoke to him. it gives us a little more clearer sense of that timeline. interesting also around that same time, we learned from the congressman who represents this district that, in fact, ahmad rahami had e-mailed that congressman asking him for help for a visa, to bring his wife into the united states. this was a wife he had married in pakistan. he wanted to bring her back here into the u.s. the congressman did, in fact, follow up on that request. he reached out to the embassy in islamabad. the embassy replied she expired on an expired pakistani visa and at the time of the application she was pregnant and so denied. at that point the congressman said the case was closed. he never heard back as to whether she made it here into this country or not. thomas? >> thanks so much. let's go back to pete. let's talk about this journal or the notes investigators were able to find at that scene in
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linden, new jersey. it was on rahami, correct? >> that's right. we had initially been told it was found with the pressure cooker bomb that was unexploded in new york, but now we understand that's not correct. that it was found -- he was carrying it at the time. what we're told is it's kind of a rambling, choppy hodgepodge, as one person said, a collection of thoughts, about previous terror attacks, including the massacre at ft. hood, the shooting there, and the boston marathon bombings and some praise for anwar al alaki. those who studied his speeches so there's a consistent theme there. officials say they found nothing to indicate any interest in isis on rahami's part, at least in their initial look at his past and he didn't seem to have much of a social media presence, but they haven't found anything that indicates isis interest, but there is this reference to al
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alaki. >> there's been no claim from isis for any direction, responsibility, correct? >> that's correct. >> pete williams, ayman in new jersey, thank you. donald trump talking terror this afternoon. the republican nominee in north carolina today where just moments ago he discussed this weekend's bombings in new york and new jersey and he made his case for stricter immigration laws. take a look. >> these attacks were made possible because of our extremely open immigration system. attack after attack from 9/11 to san bernardino to orlando, we have seen how failure to screen who is entering the united states puts all of our citizens in great danger. >> so we have the campaign trail covered. msnbc kasie hunt is in brooklyn, new york, near the clinton campaign headquarters. jacob, we just saw donald trump
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there wrapping up his latest speech, his latest stump speech. how are folks in highpoint receiving this? kind of a hard line approach or do they prefer the softer trump? >> reporter: it's interesting because this has been a central message in his campaign, always liking to turn the conversation to refugees, calling them trojan horse, talking about them as snakes, as he likes to tell this story on the trail. and now really liking to hit this message hard in the wake of these attacks, but as i talked to a lot of people about specifics of how trump likes to talk about immigration, i find a lot, and i found this today as well in talking to people in line, that many people who come to his rallies, his base, are almost more anti-hillary than they are pro-trump. and some of them will admit that they wish that he wouldn't talk about immigrants in a certain
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way, snakes or trojan horse, but they're so against hillary clinton and so excited, in their words, that the possibility that a real outsider has a real shot at the presidency, that they're okay to give him a pass on some things because they really don't want to see hillary clinton get into office. a lot of supporters have said that they really wanted him to stay focused on attacking hillary clinton. a lot of them are happy from the fact he's reading from a prompter. that appeased a lot of supporters who were worried he wouldn't be able to stay on message. in regards to his message specifically today and yesterday, talking about whether rahami should be treated as an emmy combatant, when you ask specific questions like that, usually the supporters, even those in line for his rallies either don't know about them or will give him a pass because they say, we can't see hillary clinton become president. >> we were just looking at new video of donald trump, a little meet and greet at a local restaurant there in high point.
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real quickly, though, as you talk about donald trump's immigration message, if i was watching and hearing it correctly, it seemed, jacob, the crowd was goading him into the mexico, the wall stuff. am i correct about that? >> reporter: sure, they did, in fact. he started talking about jobs for 30 seconds. he jumped right into national security, terrorism. he was interrupted 30 seconds into that and they said, build the wall. it's still central to his campaign. here he didn't bring it up in the first couple minutes, so the crowd interrupted him and wanted him to talk about that. he didn't repeat it, that i can remember, for the duration of the speech. thomas? >> thank you very much, jacob. let's go to kasie hunt. how is hillary clinton fighting back? it's completely different from the donald trump message?
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>>. >> reporter: that's right. hillary clinton is approaching this the same way she has essentially been doing since she gave that national security speech in angie a few months ago, right after donald trump became the presumptive republican nominee. that's to basically set herself up as the person who is experienced, who's been in the situation room, who's dealing with these crises in a sober, responsible way. so, this is as much about the content of what hillary clinton is saying, the policies and words that they're putting out on paper as it is about their overall posture. and simply showing hillary clinton in leadership style positions. you saw her, for example, doing a press conference a few weeks ago with an array of national security leaders. a bipartisan group. you saw her listening to them, talking to them. today she held a conference call with her top national security staff, some of whom are democrats, some of whom are independents or long-time intelligence professionals, for example. that's all designed to be along
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those lines up. see her meeting with u.n. general assembly members here this week. all of this is trying to underscore this message thag trier to send, in their view, donald trump is unfit to be commander in chief of the country. they're quick to seize on his back and forth over libya, for example, his saying now that he felt one way about it when, in fact, he's on record saying he felt the other way, et cetera. you can expect to see more of that. now, the challenge for hillary clinton here throughout this is, one, figuring out how to talk about what's gone on under the obama administration, in which he team knows she bears responsibility for secretary of state. considering what has developed with isis. and, two, simply, you know, making sure that they're presenting a posture that's tough enough. if you look at our polling, for example, it shows that more people trust donald trump to fight against terrorism, even if they trust hillary clinton more
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to be commander in chief. so, they realize that that's something that voters are focused on. they have to figure out how to balance it going forward. they also have to figure out how to start selling hillary clinton in a positive way. that's something that they wanted to do, of course, when she fell ill and now, of course, she's focusing more on debate prep. they have to figure out a way to work that in. >> that's coming up next week at hofstra. we're down to the wire on that. jacob, the trump campaign dealing with these two negative headlines, "the washington post" story about trump using fines -- paying fines by charity funds and then the other one, the don jr. tweet and skittles. how are they responding? >> reporter: right. so, this is a report out of "the washington post" about a quarter million dollars from the trump foundation used to settle lawsuits. nbc news working on confirming independently this report. but this goes to a number of things, including transparency, including his tax returns, which even many of his supporters, according to recent polls, do
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want to see. we would find out more about his charitable donations there and as well we've talked about the trump foundation before because of the pap bondi donation in 2013 where he was fined for that $25,000 donation. in addition, he's running, of course, largely on his record as a businessman, leadership and how he handles his organizations. so, this reporting is very interesting. you know, when you ask supporters about it, they haven't heard about it. and they seem to sort of wave it away and say that the press is biased against him and that the real truth will come out later. about the skittles tweet, we were talking about this earlier, i wasn't surprised and a lot of his supporters weren't surprised about this tweet because it fits into the message from the trump campaign over the last year about immigrants, comparing them to a trojan horse or to snakes. now to skittles. the campaign doesn't have an
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official response about it, but don jr. who sent the initial tweet is -- had been tweeting since arguments that would support his theory or his comparison there. he's on record a week ago, in fact, talking about this as well with a paper, i believe, in philadelphia. >> we have to be able to vet people coming into our country. if we had a bowl of skittles on the table and 3 of the 1,000 in there were poisonous, would you take from the bowl? you wouldn't until you could figure out which ones were bad. our own state department has said, hey, we really don't know. i don't think we can take those kind of risks. >> reporter: there were a few supporters we talked to who said, well, i wish he wouldn't have compared this complicated situation to skittles, but they said more important is the truth. they say that we don't know that all the people coming in are safe and so we agree on principle that something more needs to be done. so they give him, it seems, a pass on that as well.
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>> jacob rascon in high point, north carolina, and kasie hunt in brooklyn. coming up, i'll speak with former congressman peter hofstra. we'll find out what he thinks about donald trump's position about immigration, also that don jr. skittles tweet. we'll talk about that. also, the pulse question for you today -- don jr., that tweet and image that used skittles to make a policy argument against admitting refugees into the u.s., does he have a reason to apologize? let's take a look at how you feel so far. 66% say yes, 34% say no. check it out. cast your vote, pulse.msnbc.com. at safelite, we know how busy life can be. these kids were headed to eir first dance recital... ...when their windshield got cracked... ...but they couldn't miss the show. so dad went to the new safelite-dot-com. in just a few clicks, he scheduled a replacement... ...before the girls even took the stage. safelite-dot-com is the fast, easy way tschedule service anywhere in america!
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decision-making, her policies in iraq and libya and syria are responsible for the rise of isis. her attacks on me are all meant to deflect from her record of unleashing this monstrous evil upon us. >> donald trump from north carolina delivering that rally speech in high point. trump has repeatedly used that line to hit hillary clinton's record on policy. joining me is peter hofstra, one of donald trump's national security advisers. thank you for joining us. we know you've been active on twitter. i'm sure you've seen don jr.'s latest tweet where he used the bowl of skittles to compare the syrian refugee crisis. in your opinion, what does that send other nations as far as a trump global policy as far as
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our constitution? >> skittles and the constitution is an interesting place to go. let me put it this way. i think when you look at skittles, they probably have -- they don't probably. they have a much better vetting process in place for their product than what the u.s. government has in place for vetting refugees coming in from syria. >> so, it was during your time as house intelligence chair, on that committee you played a role in creating that position, director of national intelligence, now james clapper fills that role. what do you think the u.s. intelligence agencies can do better to stop a lone wolf? let's use the rahami situation from new jersey and new york. if evidence comes forward that indicates the suspected bomber did act alone, what can they do better? >> it's very, very difficult for the intelligence community to get the information to keep america safe and to stop every one of these attacks. clearly, they've made
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significant improvements in terms of the integration between foreign intelligence and domestic intelligence. one of the places where they have really come up short, it's because of some of the policies implemented, places like libya and egypt used to be treasure troves of information and intelligence for our foreign intelligence services. but with the overthrow of gadhafi, what happened with mubarak, morrissey and sisi, that treasure trove in egypt has gone away so we've lost a lot of ability to penetrate into the jihadist network because we lost our local partners. >> but the jihadist network kind of grew out of the fact that we invaded iraq. that was something you voted in favor of. and now the syrian refugee crisis is based on the fact that there has been an inpouring of isis trying to organize its caliphate. do you feel regret for that yes
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vote now knowing -- hindsight being 20/20, about the instability is created for that region and now the crisis for the syrian refugees? >> you can look back, like you said, with hindsight, is that perhaps a bad vote and perhaps going into iraq a mistake? potentially, yes. some of the decisions we have made since then either created the situation or compounded the error of the initial situation. pulling all of our troops out of iraq, supporting the overthrow of mubarak, getting rid of gadhafi, letting libya become an exporter of weapons, jihadists and ideology into parts of africa and into syria, drawing a red line in syria and then not enforcing it. there are a bunch of foreign policy mistakes that have been made over the last decade that have gotten us into the position we're in today. >> just want to clarify for our viewers and listeners. it was president bush that set the withdrawal date in 2011.
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condoleezza rice wrote in her book she met with al maliki, the person serving as prime minister then. he couldn't get it through the iraqi parliament for forces of 5,000 to 10,000 to stay beyond that withdrawal date. leon panetta backs that up, that they sought to keep forces there and also make sure that u.s. troops could be shielded from any type of prosecution within that country, and that benchmark could not be met. do you think that russia is a friend or foe? would you advise donald trump to continue his flirtation with the russian president? >> it's not only donald trump that has, number one, said things about the leadership style of vladimir putin or the results of that leadership. doesn't agree with his policies and those types of things. but this administration is also continuing in developing a flirtation with vladimir putin. first, it was the reset button seven years ago. then it was kind of a cold spell. now trying to develop a
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partnership and coherent strategy to work with russia to try to stop isis in syria. >> sir, it's good to have you on today. i appreciate your candor and what you've had to say today. former congressman peter hoekstra. >> thank you. coming up, authorities are learning more about the suspect in the bombings of new jersey and new york. former ambassador marc ginsberg will be here and i'll talk to him about the scrutiny in this case bringing light to our immigration practices ♪ if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, isn't it time to let the real you shine through? introducing otezla (apremilast). otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after ju 4 months, with reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't take otezla if you are allergic
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lone wolf if he is considered that, to be become self-radicalized. joining me is former u.s. ambassador to morocco, marc ginsberg. so, ambassador ginsberg, is it clear to authorities right now, and certainly from what we've seen so far, that he could be the prime example of a lone wolf? >> it's very conceivable, indeed. the only thing we don't know yet is what he did in afghanistan, thomas. there's a pattern here of lone wolfs being radicalized online. the radicalization that occurs online usually stops on youtube and usually stops at the cleric that was killed by president clinton -- president obama in 2011, by the name of anwar al awlaki who was self-radicalized the last 15 lone wolfs in the united states. >> he was killed by a drone strike. the journal found on site there in linden, new jersey, with
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rahami included some ramblings about al awlaki. talk about youtube for a bit and that site's content. and they have refused to take down information or videos that could be self-help, self-radicalization type content. >> thomas, if the american people knew how bad youtube's management has been on this, they would be up in arms. the fact of the matter is that since 2012, both the fbi and congress have appealed to youtube to take down the worst of anwar al awlaki's radicalization sermons that call directly for the killing of americans. youtube refuses. they hide behind a 1986 act called the communications decency act. there are court cases now pending, trying to, in effect, have the judiciary compel youtube and other organizations to take affirmative action. why youtube's management has
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refused to do so in the wake of the radicalization that's occurring online is only a testament to the fact they're saying, well, some of this is protected free speech. >> there's a fine line to cross here, because also donald trump is trying to say rahami should be charged as an enemy combat yantd, that he isn't afforded certain constitutional lights. do you walk a fine line here of not wanting to sound like a hypocrite? >> exactly. if you go on youtube, there are 64,000 hits for anwar al awlaki. not all of his sermons and appearances are insightful but there are those where they are, where he directly calls for the killing of americans. that's not protected free speech at all according to the u.s. supreme court. youtube is hiding behind this law that shields it from content liability. one more thing to adhere. when you go on youtube and you look at ann war al awlaki,
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thomas, youtube is making money off his radical sermons because there's ads below his sermons. >> my twitter will blow up because people will say, why are you giving this free commercial right now in this conversation to them? meanwhile, youtube is a business. they have a right to the content and type of business model they've structured. are our policies not keeping up with the times? >> absolutely. the fact is both the obama administration and previous administrations have tried to draw upon silicon valley to be more cooperative. congress is considering statutory remedies here. all we're asking for, people like me are asking for, the evidence is right there. lone wolves are being radicalized by your content. voluntarily step forward. twitter has done a very good job of this lately, so has facebook. why isn't youtube? >> marc, great to have you here, former ambassador to morocco,
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marc ginsberg. we want to give our listeners an opportunity to find out what's taking place right now in michigan. in is -- excuse me, oklahoma, rather. this is where benjamin crump, the attorney for the fy of terence crutcher. >> you know we represent the family of terence crutcher in this most tragic killing that was captured on video here in tulsa, oklahoma. we called this press conference today to address what we believe is some misinformation that has been put out for unknown reasons. but we feel it's necessary to address this issue head on. and let us say, for the record, regardless of what is being suggested, look at the video for yourselves. you all can conclude what's on
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the video. it is there in vivid, live color. very graphic for everybody to judge themselves on whether this killing was justified or not. on the record, this was an unjustified killing. the position of the family is resolute on this matter. you all may remember when this matter first started breaking, that the public information officer suggested that the officer shot terence crutcher because he reached inside the car. that was the narrative that they put out before we saw the video. and even yesterday some representatives put forth that she shot because he reached inside the automobile.
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you all see him walking with his hands up. he's walking slowly. he's not threatening to anyone. he is -- daylight. they have several officers on the scene and they could have easily, easily resolved this matter with less than lethal force. our other attorney will talk to you about that in just a second. what we want to draw to your attention is this whole notion that he was reaching into the car. the good thing about video, it's objective, nonpartisan. it doesn't have to try to win over supporters or voters. it is what it is. when you look at this video, and you all have the video, we have
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technicians that have enhanced the video and stopped the video where you can see clearly that the window is up, there is a streak of blood on the window. it is coming down the car door to show it was contemporaneous, you see terence crutcher laying there with his hands up. this is the frame that shows the window was up. so, how can he be reaching into the car if the window is up and there is blood on the glass? it is very clear even when we just try to bring attention to simply the window, you can see that it is completely up and there is blood going almost to the top of the window. we thought it was important to
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address this misinformation that had been put out in public consumption. again, we do not believe, regardless if the window was up or down, that this shooting was justified. this is clearly a case of excessive force. and the video is there. at this time you will hear from attorney demario solomon simmons, who is a close personal friend as well of the crutcher family. >> thank you, ben. i just want to reiterate what ben said. this is unjustified regardless of the fact that the window is clearly up because of the video. you watch the video and it's clear to see that terence did not have a weapon in his hand. it's clear to see that terence was not being belligerent. the video chreely shows that he
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had his hands up. the video has no ulterior motive, it has no political affiliation, it's not trying to make a point. so the video just shows us what happened. and what happened is that terence had his hands up. terence didn't make any sudden movements. the only -- the only movement that happened is when terence was hit by the taser. he was shortly thereafter shot. and his blood splattered on this window, on this car. and it just rolled all the way down. and it pooled as he bled out without anyone coming to his aid. that's why this is unjustified. that's why this is unnecessary excess of force. this video clearly shows, and the beauty of video in daylight,
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it's undisputable. and at this time, attorney melvin c. hall. >> the only comment i want to make about the undisputed evidence that the window was up is let's back away from that in that there was no threat posed to the officers. they were not in danger. in fact, there was overwhelming force that was present there. the officers were at a safe distance away from the vehicle. there were at least four officers, all of whom were armed in the video at the time. the proper thing to do would have been to maintain a perimeter and have a discussion and try to resolve the issue
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whatever concerned the officers amicably without force. and to use rce, excessive force under these particular circumstances was not justified, it was not warranted, it was not called for, there were no circumstances that existed, there was no emergency situation that was -- that existed, there was no exposure in terms of the officers being in harm's way. when he had his hands up, that's a clear indication that he was not armed and the window to his vehicle was also up. and if you slow the video down and look at it frame by frame you'll see he's responding to being tased.
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>> now you'll hear from david riggs. >> well, i was asked to address one issue that's been surfaced. and i'm not sure of the facts about this. i'm not sure that anybody knows for certain. it's been suggested that mr. crutcher was under the influence of drug or some infoxicant at the time. we don't know that's true. let's assume it was. you have to ask yourself again, what is the proper way to handle a situation where someone is acting in a strange way and, perhaps, not entirely in control of his emotions or mentality -- mental state at that time? this is a textbook case of how not to treat someone in that condition. i heard just this morning, as a coincidence, a public announcement, public information announcement, about some -- some psychiatrist was being quoted about the fact that we have such a high level of drug abuse or drug addiction in all parts of
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our society. talked about them and how until we start treating it as a condition requiring care and concern and an appropriate approach, until we start treating it as a disease, frankly, we're not going to be able to handle that condition. in no way was mr. crutcher -- if he were under the influence of any substance, there's no way this is an appropriate way to treat him when he clearly was presenting as someone suffering from some kind of unusual mental or medical condition. we just want to put to rest the idea that somehow that justified his being treated as a criminal who was a threat to other people. not everybody who's under the influence of some drug is a threat to other people and we can't begin treating everybody in our society, at whichever level they might be from, as someone who is a threat to the rest of us because they have a serious condition known as drug addiction. we need to make that point clear.
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>> and before we open it up to questions and answers, just some things -- >> we're listening to benjamin crump and the team representing the family of terence crutcher, the 40-year-old man you see in the video with tulsa authorities who was fatally shot on friday night. now, according to those that called into 911, his vehicle broke down in the middle, kind of straddled the two-lane roadway here. and authorities arrived on the scene. the first officer to show up was betty shelby. her attorney put out a notification earlier today in her defense, saying that she thought that crutcher had been acting erratically, wasn't listening to commands, and also there was the possibility that he could have been under the influence of either drugs or alcohol. our janet shamlian has been covering the story and joins us now. as the attorney was saying, kind of making his case here in a
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public press conference, the video really tells the tale. there's the dashboard video and the helicopter video. >> reporter: exactly, thomas. they have two vantage points on this. we should clarify that ben crump promised new information in this press conference. there really wasn't that. he's really saying he wants to address misinformation he claims was put out by the public information officer and by the officer involved, betty shelby, who gave a statement to the police, to the d.a., and who is now on administrative leave. in doing so, she said that she felt he was reaching for something inside his car. their point in this presser just now is that the car window was up. there was no way that he was doing that. and that this is misinformation being put out there. what he's concerned about, thomas -- and perhaps not without merit -- is that, you know, this case is not going to be prosecuted as they would like it to be, despite assurances from the police chief of the
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tulsa police department and the d.a. yesterday. as you know, the justice department has opened its own investigation. but i spoke with terence's twin sister yesterday, tiffany, she's a chiropractor, it those are her fears as well. she fears it will be brushed under the rug, no arrest warrant will be issued and her brother will become another statistic. by some accounts, more than 160 african-american men have been shot by police this year. so, again, ben crump and his team of attorneys bringing the point forward that they feel there's misinformation out there. the video from two different vantage points clearly shows that this gentleman, terence, did not reach for the window. in the audio recording, thomas, from the helicopter, you even hear the helicopter pilot and spotter talking to each other. one of them says, well, he has
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his hands up now. so, they've got a lot of evidence here to work with. and all involved are hoping they come to some resolution on this. >> just to confirm for those on the force, that were on the scene there, two officers are on leave? >> reporter: no, one officer is on leave, and that is the officer who fatally shot terence. >> betty shelby. >> reporter: betty shelby. the other officer tased terence, but he's not on leave. >> janet shamlian reporting for us, thank you. joining me is msnbc's chief legal correspondent, ari melber. they put out the information about crutcher reaching into the video. ben crump talking about the blood remnants on the window, the fact it's rolled up. that's misinformation being
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distributed. >> certainly. this is extreme force used on someone, even if he was under the influence of something, aren't they trained how to react to that situation that won't end in someone's death? >> very extreme lethal force. we look at this aerial video, which has become the crux of this entire dispute over what happened. what jumps out at you here is howuickly this encounter escalated, how the individual here does not appear from, again, a naked eye view here of what we can see to be putting up the kind of force or threat that would normally justify the use of deadly force. the legal standard there being the threat of imminent body harm or death. viewers can judge for themselves. and if there is a case, a jury might judge for themselves what they see there and whether that looks like cooperation or not. i can tell you, again, from this angle and this is not everything we know under the sun, but from this angle, this video does suggest cooperation and does not provide the kind of video
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evidence that would justify the use of deadly force on its own. that doesn't answer the entire legal question. now, a couple other points here for context, if viewers watched some of that press conference and now looking at this rather dramatic video, the moments leading up to mr. crutcher's shooting and death, this is tulsa, where over the past nine years there have been 24 fatal shootings. this is a community that has said -- by police, 24 fatal shootings. this is a community that's said, police are too quick to act. police, i should note, have said, as they do in many of these situations, force is a last resort. as you mentioned, thomas, they mentioned their view that they were responding to some sort of threat. the other thing i'll mention quickly is this is a community where an officer last year was actually convicted of manslaughter for use of force and sentenced to four years. very rare. this is not the first time this community is looking at this kind of controversy. >> we know that officer shelby, again, on leave. the crutcher family is trying to get her arrested in this incident. we'll see how this all plays out
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and continue to follow it. we have a lot more ahead this hour, including nbc news exclusive sitdown. my colleague, kelly o'donnell speaking with donald trump's running mate, mike pence. >> this is a choice between candidates, but really it's a choice between two futures. hillary clinton is committed to the same policies that have weakened america's place in the world and stifled america's economy. >> so, kelly is going to join me next with more of that exclusive interview with indiana's governor. both on the track d thousands of miles away. with the help of at&t, red bull racing can share critical information about every inch of the car from virtually anywhere. brakes are getting warm. confirmed, daniel you need to cool your brakes. understood, brake bias back 2 clicks. giving them the agility to have speed & precision. because no one knows & like at&t.
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my colleague, kelly o'donnell, sat down with donald trump's running mate, indiana governor mike pence. kelly o'donnell joins me from norfolk, where he met her 15 years ago. what's the headline from talking to the gov senaternor?
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>> i love when we have personal history in our live shots, thomas. you remember, governor pence was first considered by donald trump for this job that seems slik a lifetime ago but it's only been a couple months ago. i was looking forward to this chance to sit down and talk to him about the issues driving this campaign. we talked about the bombing incidents in the northeast, we talked about what should happen to that suspect. he did not go so far as to say he should be treated like an enemy combatant. we also talked about the skittles controversy. he said, it's a metaphor that people are being outraged about. they should be concerned about hillary clinton's desire to seek more refugee inflow to the u.s. but we also talked about some other things, trying to get at sort of his experience being the vp nominee and how so much of the time he spent on the trail, including my interview with him now, answering for what donald trump has said or trying to interpret donald trump, in some ways being the ambassador of trump, as i refer to him at one
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point. here's how he reacted to that. >> reporter: you often call him a good man, which is a strong testament from you. have you ever been concerned when you hear about some of the issues, trump university, the trump foundation, contractors who say they didn't get paid, do you ever have a concern about how he's conducted himself in some of his business life? >> i truly do believe that donald trump has the personal qualities and the leadership and the vision to make america great again. i mean, look, this is a choice between candidates but really it's a choice between two futures. hillary clinton is committed to the same policies that have weakened america's place in the world and stifled america's economy. we have an economy that grew in the last quarter at 1% growth. and hillary clinton wants to continue more taxes, more regulation, more of obamacare, more of the war on coal. donald trump and i are committed to changing direction fundamentally in this country through less taxes, less regulation, repealing obamacare
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and unleashing the you positiwe american energy. americans hear those ideas and they hear the bold honesty with which he speaks, they know this will be a man to help lead this country back to a more prosperous and secure future. >> reporter: as we sit here, hillary clinton is off the trail today, having a national security meeting, maybe doing some debate prep, and donald trump sort of poked at her via twitter about sleep well, hillary, as he said. and he was very careful when she was ill to be a bit more restrained than we've been accustomed to. do you think there is anything that borders on being sexist in the way that he sometimes speaks about her or refers to her? >> oh, donald trump has a long record of advancing the interest of women in his organizations. our campaign manager is one of the most accomplished women in
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american politics today. i think his record and his family's record really speaks for itself in that regard. we wish hillary clinton well. we're glad to see her back out on the campaign trail. this election is of such enormous importance in the life of the nation because it represents a dramatic choice in presidential candidates than any choice i've ever seen in my lifetime. and i couldn't be more honored to be standing with donald trump who knows in the wake of terrorist attacks this weekend and at a time where we've seen america's stature in the world weakened, our enemies emboldened, at a time we have a lackluster economy, slowest recovery since the great depression. donald trump and i know with the right leadership we can take america back to the future where we're standing tall on the world stage, we're safer at home, and we have a more prosperous future for american families. >> reporter: and we are here at what was the battleship
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wisconsin, a museum in nor folk. we walked the deck of the ship as well. this is where mitt romney selected paul ryan to be his running mate in 2012. i asked him about the relationships that governor pence has with those establishment republicans. he says he's still trying to work on mending some of the frayed edges for a party that is certainly not fully embraced donald trump. >> you'll be able to see more of thatsitdown interview on this network and also on nbc. thank you very much. we appreciate it it. virginia being a battleground state. up next, your responses to our pulse question today. first, latest samsung recall may have galaxy note 7 users wondering if their phone is safe. here's "the verge update". >> samsung galaxy 7 note users have heard the story of lithium-ion batteries overheating and causing serious damage. a formal recall was announced after multiple reports of the phones exploding in cars, garages and even people's hands.
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samsung has launched a website to find out if your note 7 is safe to use. enter a code from your phone to see if it contains one of the defective batteries. samsung has introduced safety icons to mark the packages on new phones and change the battery icon to green to show users which are clear. nope, it's lonade. is that ice-t? lemonade. ice-t? what's with these people, man? lemonade, read the sign. lemonade. read it. ok. delicious. ice-t at a lemonade stand? surprising. what's not surprising? how much money marin saved by switching to geico. yo, ice-t! it's lemonade, man! fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. ...doesn't go on your wrist. technology... ♪ the highly advanced audi a4, with class-leading horsepower.
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let's give you an update on the pulse question. it had to do with don jr.'s tweet. that image he used in a skittles bowl to make a policy argument about admitting refugees into the u.s. do you think don jr. has reason to apologize? take a look, 72% say yes, 28% say no. the pulse will remain open for a little while longer. pulse.msnbc.com. i'm going to hand things over to my colleague, kate snow. >> i'm kate snow. nice to see you. we begin this hour with the latest on the investigation into this weekend's explosions in new york a

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