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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  September 20, 2016 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT

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bloombergpolitics.com right now. you can check out our fancy new poll decoder, where we break down the polls. we show you a detailed picture of which demographic groups support which candidates for president. it's fascinating. until tomorrow, thanks for watching. sayonara. >> "hardball" with chris matthews is next. less than a week. let's play "hardball". >> good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. well, it's six days now to the first debate between hillary clinton and donald trump, and terrorism is on the minds of many. in response to this weekend's terror attacks in new york, new jersey, and minnesota, donald trump has called for knocking the hell out of isis, profiling people here in the usa, and severely limiting immigration. also treating terror suspects as, as he put it, enemy combatants. for her part, hillary clinton called for better intelligence
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gathering, building trust between law enforcement and the muslim community here, and smashing isis strongholds in the middle east. smashing them. anyway, today the country's current commander in chief gave his final speech to the u.n. general assembly. president obama never mentioned trump by name, but it was clear whom he was talking about when he warned of a crude populism gathering around the world. let's watch the president. >> today, a nation ringed by walls would only imprison itself. we must reject any forms of fundamentalism or racism. instead, we need to embrace the tolerance that results from respect of all human beings. in europe, in the united states, you see people wrestle with concerns about immigration and changing demographics and suggesting that somehow, people who look different are corrupting the character of our countries. i do not believe progress is possible if our desire to preserve our identities gives
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ways to an impulse to dehumanize or dominate another group. >> well, with donald trump blamed president obama and hillary clinton for the rise of isis. today he said, clinton's time as secretary of state, quote, unleashed this monstrous evil upon us. he also blamed our current immigration policies. >> these attacks were made possible because of our extremely open immigration system, which fails to properly vet and screen the individuals coming into our country. it's just a plain fact that our current immigration system makes no real attempt to determine the views of the people entering our country. we have no idea who they are, what they think. isis is torturing, murdering, executing, and exterminating people in a campaign of genocide. and what is hillary clinton suggesting? what is she suggesting? you know what she's -- let's let more people come in.
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>> well, clinton today was off the campaign trail. her campaign said she held a conference call in the morning with her nasa security advisers to discuss this weekend's attack. anyway, yesterday, hillary clinton slammed donald trump for his rhetoric, which she said was helping isis recruit fighters. helping isis recruit. let's watch her. >> i don't want to speculate, but here's what we know. and i think it's important for voters to hear this and weigh it in making their choice in november. we know that a lot of the rhetoric we've heard from donald trump has been seized on by terrorists, in particular, isis. because they are looking to make this into a war against islam. >> well, donald trump fired back against that charge today. let's watch. >> her claim that my opposition to radical islamic terrorism is a recruiting tool. what the -- how does that have to do with -- i'm being tough. why is that a recruiting -- i'm much tougher than her on this
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problem, this horrible situation. because i'm tough, it's a recruiting tool? it demonstrates a level of ignorance about the terror threat that really is disqualifying for a person seeking the presidency. >> well, how will trump's tough talk on terrorism play with voters? david corn is washington bureau chief for mother jones and an msnbc political analyst. jay newton smalls is washington correspondent for "time" magazine. and boris epshteyn is senior manager to the trump campaign. i know you're with trump and speaking for him, but this argument that somehow trump's rhetoric is galvanizing our opposition against us, where do you stand on that? >> no one's buying that, chris. you have to look at the facts, okay? hillary clinton was secretary of state from 2009 to 2013. under her watch, isis truly grew. it was a failed entity beforehand, under a different name. it became isis under her watch. 80% of people who have been killed by isis have done so since she was secretary of state. and isis now is in about 20
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countries. isis has become a global threat under hillary clinton. and this is a really suede for her to try to pivot from this, when she knows she doesn't have a leg to stand on. again, libya became a failed state on her watch. syria, iraq, egypt, of all resulted in some levels of chaos. although egypt after two revolutions is out of it, but all on her watch. hillary clinton was a terrible secretary of state. and she's trying to run on a record that simply doesn't exist. >> that's not going to help around here, those kind of comments. you don't generalize. here's the question. trump's running as mr. trump. he's running as the guy who's gong to be tougher on the enemy and he's going to somehow discern who the terrorists are before they become terrorists. this guy involved in the new york thing, the suspect, apparently came here, he was a naturalized american citizen. he wanted to become a good american, by all estimates. and then somehow became radicalized on troops to pakistan and afghanistan. my question is, how do you discern the enemy that emerges in his or her own soul?
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>> well, you can't. because he came over when he was 7. and nothing that trump has said about profiling would make a different. and i have to say this -- >> he says you won't -- >> he wants to know what ideas i have. you're right, at 7 years old, he department have any particularly radical ideas. >> and boris just said something that makes no sense. we had malcolm nance on this network earlier today, and we do know that isis is using trump's rhetoric as a recruiting tool. and we had boris come on and say, we all know that's not true. he's spinning, doesn't care about the facts. and we have people on who are experts, and they say the exact opposite of what boris just told our audience. >> may i respond, chris? >> of course. >> well, listen, david, to your point, i disagree with malcolm. listen, may have -- >> he just said no one believes pit. >> sure, fine. but we know that the threat of isis has come long before mr. trump ran for president. we know that radical islamic
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jihadism, radical islamic terrorism came long before. and in terms o of what mr. trump wants to do, making sure people who come into this country don't want to hurt it. >> how would you have stopped this goo rahami from coming into this country? >> he did came when he was 7 years old. he came with his family, look at the family, look at their backgrounds? >> what would you have found? >> that's one -- >> what would you have have found? >> i don't know. we didn't have the opportunity to look. >> the father called the son a terrorist. the father -- whatever the father, whether he's dealing in hi hyperbole, the father was not part of some terrorist plot. >> i'm not hear to talk about the specific father. >> well, you're using this case as an example of terrorism that would have been stopped had your guy been president, right? >> if mr. trump were president, what we would do is make sure people who are coming into this country do not want to hurt this country. >> he's already been here. what do you do with naturalized -- boris, you're on
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this show to answer a question. what would you do to a naturalized american who you thought might be harboring dangerous thoughts. we have a free country. someone's allowed to go online and watch whatever they want. what you can't do is commit crimes. >> but you can have a conspiracy to commit crimes. you can say watching videos who are teaching you how to build bombs and discussing building bombs, and being in chat rooms is conspiracy to commit terrorism. and that is something that is a crime. >> imagine putting someone in jail for going online. >> conspiracy to commit terrorism. i would be happy to do so. >> so i spent much of today on capitol hill talking to senators about this, from the intelligence committee and the homeland security committee, and they say there are troubling signs that were missed. the fbi should have taken the father's warning a little more serious. the fact that he went to quetta in pakistan, quetta really is the hotbed of terrorism, so it's like going to -- >> where's the crime begin? >> no, you're right. if there's not -- it's very
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hard, and this is something that congress is going to have to look at, the fbi is going to look at to say, if they're monitoring all of his communications, they saw no reason to arrest him. they saw no reason to detain him. how do you stop somebody? >> here's the problem. boris, here's the problem. suppose some kids after a couple beers one night or for fun in the dormitory, say, let's look up this bomb-making thing they have online. see how it works. you going to take those kids and put them in jail? >> no, you're going to investigate their behavior -- >> you would? >> and make sure they don't mean to go and hurt americans, then nothing happens. but if it's part of a larger plot or conspiracy, of course you have to run down -- that's a lead. >> you would send the fbi around to interview kids who check out something online? you would do it, at that stage? >> if those kids are looking at bomb-making material. >> maybe they're just curious. where do we draw the line in a free society? >> you draw the line in making sure people don't build bombs. >> he said the other day, i won't spy on americans. wh bis is talking about is spying on millions of
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amican >> no, it's not. >> wait a second, boris, you had your turn. he's going to be tough on isis? we have no idea what his plans are. he's going to fire the generals, but first ask them to give him a plan in 30 days. all you get out of donald trump is talk, no policies, inconsistency -- >> let me go to jay on this. if we can stop crimes, a husband shoots his wife, wife shoots the husband, somebody does something like that, a kid robs a gas station, if we can stop crimes because we few they were going to commit the crime, we would haven't a crime problem. >> but, chris, those are lone wolf crimes. these are crimes where people need to be part of a group. >> we're not sure they are. >> he had travel. he had relationships. he had contacts. these are warning signs. >> but they're not illegal. >> they're not illegal -- >> this is a really -- >> okay, i just don't think that -- i understand the need to get tough and the requirement politically to say you're tougher than the other person. what trump has to do and you have to do is explain exactly how you, within the limits of our constitution, would protect people's rights, and also,
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reduce the amount of terrorism. now, this terrorism in this country is not regular. it's not frequent. it occurs. and i wonder whether you can actually stomp out terrorism. i don't think you can stomp it out, do you? >> you go to san bernardino, to orlando -- >> do you think you can stomp out terrorism? is that what you're saying? >> you're looking at a pattern that's picking up. >> are you saying every terrorist act could have been prevented? >> what i'm saying to you is we can do a better job of preventing it if we looked into these people. look at san bernardino. those were very strong warning signs there and those people, the wife especially -- >> we're always saying -- >> illegal -- >> there was no -- i mean, san bernardino was a husband and wife and those are very privileged communications. those are very, very hard to wiretap, frankly. and a lot of -- >> but facebook is not -- >> can i please finish? a lot of the stuff, if it's a conspiracy like it was in france, where you have 15, 20 people, they're communicating all over the place, that is something that is absolutely preventable, and you talk to experts in the united states,
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that's something that's hard to happen here because it's such a huge mass conspiracy, and we do wiretap enormously. but if it's something where it's one person logging on -- >> well, ft. hood, orlando -- >> yeah, orlando, these are lone wolf. lone wolf attacks are almost impossible to prevent. >> i don't know if it's presumption, your here to support trump, but common sense is also on this table. how do you stop every case in a free society, if somebody decides -- someone is deciding to commit a crime? individuals -- you talk about lone wolf. someone who says, i'm mad at this country. my life is no so the happy. so i'm going to do something that shows my attitude to this country in a violent way. you can't stop that, can you? >> chris, i disagree with the premise of a lone wolf. these people are not lone wolves. they're all tied by an ideology. in this case, they're all tied to isis in one way or another. >> they have facebook postings, which made it clear that -- >> donald trump attacks hillary clinton -- >> you're just yelling over me. >> -- and the president for saying that we have to fight the isis narrative, right? he just said, we've got to fight
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the ideology. >> we've got to fight the people -- the ideology -- >> without a single plan. do you have a plan? >> okay, i don't think -- i think we've got to get -- >> -- access to social media. >> i don't think it's a legal conspiracy in our system, boris, if somebody gets something onlined, they're inspired by it in a negative way, in a violent way, with i don't think that's a conspiracy. >> as an attorney, i'll tell you, if they have one conversation about planning to commit a crime, that's a conspiracy right there. >> okay, okay, that gets very close to being a police state. thank you very much, jane newton-small and boris epshteyn. coming up, this sunday, a special edition of "hardball" here at a special time as we get ready for the first presidential debate on monday. join me at 8:00 eastern sunday, debate eve. we'll be here. coming up, new information on the suspect who set off bombs in new york and new jersey two years ago. the fbi investigated rahami after discovering his father yelled "you're a terrorist." so why wasn't he stopped then? and "the washington post" reports that donald trump used
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his charity to settle lawsuits that involved his businesses to the tune of a quarter million dollars. we've got "the post" reporter who broke the story coming here. and with just six days until donald trump and hillary clinton meet in their first debate, we'll reveal our special segment tonight, how to win or lose a debate. the "hardball" rules. a look at past debates and the great lines where you knew one candidate had struck gold and the other was finished. finally, my election diary for tonight, with exactly seven weeks to go before the election. by the way, it is tuesday, isn't it? and this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ mapping the oceans. where we explore. protecting biodiversity. everywhere we work. defeating malaria. improving energy efficiency. developing more clean burning natural gas. my job? my job at exxonmobil? turning algae into biofuels. reducing energpoverty in the developing world. making cars go further with less. fueling the global economy. and you thought we just made the gas. ♪ energy lives here.
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welcome back to "hardball." investigators are learning new details about that suspect in last weekend's bomb attacks in new york and new jersey. auk meade khan ra happenmy appeared on the fbi's radar as far back as august of '14, after neighbors told police rahami's father called his son a terrorist. he yelled that at him. we also learned today that rahami was carrying a notebook when he was captured yesterday. it offered clues about his thinking, including what's been described as rambling thoughts on slain al qaeda leader, anwar al awlaki, and prior terror attacks in the united states, including the boston marathon bombing. today, federal officials are tearing terrorism charges against rahami for those bombings in new york and new
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jersey. for more, i'm joined by pete williams. pete, the federal charges, that means what? that they're just proceeding here? >> that's right, they're going to be filed in both new york and new jersey, and there's lots of new detail in the charges tonight, chris. the federal government says that he began -- that rahami began ordering materials to build bombs in june on ebay using his own name. they say two days before the bombings in new york, he recorded a cell phone video, recorded by a family member, showing him lighting something in a cylinder, in a backyard near or at the home. the 12 of his fingerprints were found on the 27th street bomb, that's the unexploded pressure cooker bomb, and prints were also found on materials with the elizabeth, new jersey, bomb that was set off just yesterday. and then they found, as far as this notebook that he was carrying, he included such anti-u.s. statements as this. you continue your slaughter against the mujahideen, be it afghanistan, iraq, shah, meaning
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palestine. he praises nidal hasan who killed 13 people at ft. hood, texas, and praises bin laden and al awlaki and closes with this. in salah, meaning god willing, the sounds of the bombs will be heard in the streets, gunshots to your police, death to your oppression. so he's now facing the federal charges in addition to the local charges. he's charged with setting off a weapons of mass destruction and bombing a public place. >> so, you may have not heard the somewhat partisan argument we just had here from someone from the trump campaign arguing that we should be intervening in these cases, long before we have the kind of evidence that you're talking about. is that feasible? like, can you go after somebody because they traveled to some place in pakistan? can you arrest a person for watching something on the internet from al awlaki? is there anywhere that you could be more aggressive that's legal and constitutional than what we do? >> none of those things are
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crimes. but here's the issue that you talked about earlier. so in 2014, a neighbor told the police that during a domestic violence attack, in which rahami was accused of stabbing his brother in the leg, while all that was going on, a neighbor said she heard rahami's father say, you're a terrorist, get out of the house. the police told the fbi, the fbi talked to him, and he said, no, i was angry, i didn't mean it. i just said in the heat of the moment i don't think he's a terrorist. nonetheless, the fbi says it did look at its databases, did look at materials in the government's databases about him. interviewed family members, interviewed friends, and concluded he wasn't a terrorist. talked to the father one more time, who said, yep, i said it and i was mad and i didn't mean it. so, that was then, and of course, then he did attractive to pakistan and afghanistan to some pretty sketchy areas. and what the government said is that u.s. citizens can go there, but they are subject to
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seconda secondary examination. when they come back, they're questioned about the reason for his travel. he said he went overseas, got married, and was trying to get his wife back here. and of course, he's from afghanistan. so it's hard to -- i'm sure some people will say, and i'm beginning to hear members of congress saying, well, was enough attention paid here? but there's nothing here that would have put him under arrest. and even if he was on a watch list. that would have meant that they paid a little more attention to hill when he traveled. i wouldn't believe that the information that i just sketched out would qualify him for the no-fly list. so that's -- it is always a problem. >> you've done it the way i thought it was. thanks so much, pete williams. let's bring in national security analyst, juan zarati. this debate we had, it may have seened buffoonish, but the idea that we can arrest someone because they're contemplating a crime. contemplating is not illegal. >> and it's a very difficult
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spectrum from the fbi. because they're not looking at just criminal behavior, but criminal suspicibehavior. >> we're not looking for an ethnic group, we're looking for a mind-set. and i think that guy, boris epshteyn finally admitted it, the argument that david jumped on, yes, it's a mind-set, an ideology. you can be 22 years old and not buy it, 23 years old and have bought it. and that's a reality. >> and i think what this notebook reflects is that this individual, rahami, bought into this ideology, this narrative. he clearly has followed the lineage of it over time, bin laden, anwar al awlaki, it's about markers of how this ideology manifests. how does the fbi find those markers, how do they put it together? and frankly, how do they put it around the array of individuals that they have to worry about? keep in mind, they're looking at over a thousand cases, 50 states, and he can't be on everybody 24/7. even the individuals they they
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know are potentially problematic. >> i remember back in the '60s, a father could yell, if your hair went too long, you're a hippie, that doesn't mean you're a hippie. you're not living on the street corner drugged out because he doesn't like his haircut. today a father yells at his son, you're a terrorist, because he doesn't like the hair, doesn't like what he's saying. you can't arrest a guy for looking like a terrorist, but the father knew what he meant. >> the problem the fbi has, anytime there's an incident like this, you look back, hindsight's 2020. all of this looks in collection to be difficult, and then you start discovering more about it, and it becomes difficult. >> there's a tom cruise movie about it called "minority report." >> a great movie. >> but totally sci-fi. the fbi's whipsawed. the time they've engaged in arrests, sting operations, they get charged with entrapment, going too far, too aggressively, when they don't do enough, and they are required to close cases where they don't find
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information that leads them to further suspicion. >> they can't watch -- >> it's by guideline and law. the fbi agents are required to respect constitutional rights. they're also charged with preventing attacks. that's a very hard balloons. and i think we've got -- >> you know why donald trump calls all that constitutional stuff? pc, politically correct. that is the challenge we're in as a country, how free are we going to remain. we want zero terrorism, it may require going all the way to the end. and i think americans say, we're going to do our best as americans. >> the expectation is zero tolerance, we strive for that, but certainly don't give up our rights and constitution. >> thank you for being our expert. up next, another scoop from "the washington post" about donald trump's charity. you might call it that. "the post" reports that the trump foundation used money from other people to settle lawsuits that involved his businesses. the reporter who broke that story is coming here next, right here. and this is "hardball" the place for politics.
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clearer skin is possible. i'm milissa rehberger. here's what's happening. one air force pilot is dead, another injured after a youtube spy plane crashed shortly after takeoff in california. pieces of the cold war era plane was spotted roadside. pieces ejected during the training mission and the investigation is ongoing. and the head of wells fargo told congress today he accepts full responsibility for the unethical sales practices rampant within the company. lawmakers blasted the ceo after millions of fake accounts were
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opened in customers' names. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." this morning, the washington poo post reported that donald trump is using his charity foundation to settle lawsuits involving his businesses. "the post" found four examples where they found that trump may have violated laws against self-dealing, which prohibits leaders from using their charity money. this comes after the trump foundation paid a $2,500 fine to the irs after it was revealed the foundation had improperly donate $25,000 to florida attorney general, pam bondi, with around the same time her office was considering a fraud investigation into trump university. well, both donald trump and pam bondi deny any allegation of pay
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pay-for-play. and he's also under from the attorney general of new york. nbc's parent company, nbc universal, made a 500,000 donation to trump foundation. joining me right now for more on this, i'm joined by the author of that article in "the washington post," david farenthold, political reporter for "the washington post." david, explain this use of money, use of foundation money for business personal purposes. >> well, we looked at two cases where two businesses, one time it was a golf course in new york. both cases, they got into legal trouble. and both settlements agreed to make a donation to charity, but in both cases, the business didn't pay anything. a trump used a separate charity with other people's money to pay those -- >> so it's not trump's money in the foundation? >> as far as we can tell, he hasn't given a donation since 2008. it's other people's money. >> in other words, he's dipping into money that isn't his and using it. like going into the collection basket at church and give me a
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handful of money. is it any different than that? >> he's taken this money in the charity, supposed to do charitable work, and using it to pay off obligations that his businesses have already occurred? >> why did he stop giving money in '08? the trump foundation has the name trump on it. if they give money away, he gives it away, he gets credit for giving money away. he occasionally uses that money to pay bills with. >> it's really unusual. a lot of rich people create foundations, put their money on it, and give their money away. >> that's why it has their name on it. >> that's the expectation he trades on. one, it's unusual that trump hasn't put any of his own money in, and he continues to put other people's money in, people are under the impression it's trump's money he's getting. >> what do you make of the fact, what we jumped on last week, he paid $25,000 to a political action committee, which is politics, which his foundation money. and then somebody that works for him, i guess a joker, came out and said, that was intended to
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go to some pregnancy emergency situation for young women or girls who get pregnant, who don't want to have abortions out in kansas city somewhere. the idea that trump is giving money to that organization is ludicrous. and that was his alibi. >> it's even more complicated than that. they say that trump gives, in order to give to this political group in florida. and somehow, they first confuse it with a charity in utah. so they cut the money out of the trump foundation. then the irs tells the foundation's accountants tell the irs, we didn't give any donation to pam bondi, to his group in florida. we gave the money to a different charity in kansas. >> it looks like he's giving money to a politician down there, with an attorney general, so they won't prosecute. so anybody who's watching it, who says, why are you making a contribution to some attorney general down in florida whose offices is investigating or could well investigate and diet you for trump university. that looks like, you know, politics at its worst. >> the real question is, when did pam bondi ask trump for the docks? because she did ask. and when she did -- >> she said she did it on the
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record. she had the conversation with trump, give me some money. >> we don't know when and what the two of them knew about that possible investigation at the time. >> you're doing great work. follow the money, bob woodward, right? thank you, dave fahrenthold. up next, six days to go until donald trump and hillary clinton meet in the first big debate. it's next monday night. when we come back, "hardball" rules about who win or lose. political people, i know you are like me, love these pictures of -- well, it's going to be reagan going at it and lloyd benson going at it and all of these people doing their best and worst to show you. our panel and the two guys running for president, both hillary clinton and trump, how not to lose a debate! and how to win one. we'll be right back. it's coming up monday night, by the way. and on sunday night, on the eve of the debate night, of course, of course, join us, please, there it is, the big graphic, with 8:00, this coming sunday night, a especially edition of "hardball," the night before the first debate. you're watching it, "hardball," the place for politics.
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would you go into the marital arena if she hits the you with the women thing? >> i don't think i'm looking to do that, bill. i don't know what i'm going to do, exactly. you know, it depends on what level she hits with you, if it's fair or unfair. but certainly, i'm not looking to do that. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was donald trump on fox last night, on whether he would bring up hillary clinton's marriage in the upcoming presidential debates. he said it would depend on conditions. anyway, in just six days to go now until our first showdown on monday. it's sure to be high stakes television. so he we wanted to look at how a candidate can win or lose a presidential debate. here's what we learned over the years. rule number one. one-liners can work, whether they're prepared or not. a well-delivered comeback is often the only thing the audience remembers after the dust settles. when president jimmy carter was criticizing ronald reagan in the 1980 debate for his opposition years early to medicare, reagan
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famously dismissed carter's attack with this memorable remark. >> these are the kind of elements of a national health insurance important to the american people. governor reagan, again, typically, is against such a proposal. >> governor? >> there you go again. >> well, in the vice presidential debate of 1980, lloyd benson famously delivered this devastating blow to dan quayle after quayle compared his experience to that of john f. kennedy. >> i have as much experience in the congress as jack kennedy did when he sought the presidency. >> senator benson? >> senator, i served with jack kennedy. i knew jack kennedy. jack kennedy was a friend of mine. senator, you're no jack kennedy. >> that camera angle killed. i'm joined now by the roundtable. eugene robinson, msnbc political analyst and column u.s. with
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"the washington post." and howard dean is an msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the dnc and former governor, if not president, of vermont. let me ask you, you've been in these debates. >> republic of vermont. it seems to me there that lloyd benson was ready, he had heard that this guy was going to try that again. and with a good clubman, he said, you're not getting in the club. >> of all of the debates i've ever seen, i still feel terrible over dan quayle over that one. benson actually put him in a texas barbecue and fried him in about 30 seconds. i couldn't believe it. >> but he needed -- colleen, he needed quayle to make the claim. he couldn't have done it if quayle hadn't said, i'm john kennedy. >> you need your opponent to set you up sometimes. and debates are made up of moments. and only a few lines survive. and so sometimes hillary clinton gets mired in the details and it's the one line that actually -- >> gene, you know this business like i do. somewhere in new york now or in new jersey, the golf course, donald trump and roger ailes are
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sitting around figuring, how do they construct one of these moments. ho do we know when the time is right to whack back? >> you know, you can only prepare to a certain extent. you can get some one-liners, you can imagine situations and have a -- you know, have a line prepared, but, you've got to have the opening. the opening has to be there. and you've got to be quick enough to, you know, to jump in. >> to kill. >> go for the jugular. rule number two, show your heart. candidates who are afraid to open up themselves can pay a price on the debate stage, especially if they appear too rehearsed, unemotional, or just uninspired. case in point, 1988, when michael dukakis, the governor of massachusetts gave a boiler plate answer to this very perm question from bernard shaw. >> governor, if kitty dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor an irrevocable death
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penalty for the killer? >> no, i wouldn't, bernard. i've opposed the death penalty for my entire life. i don't see any evidence it's a deterrent and there are better and more effective ways to deal with violent crime. >> colleen? that killed him. i'm not completely sure we, but i think i know why. >> he didn't even flimplg. he showed no emotion about the prospect of his wife being raped and murdered and he just focused on the principle. and people -- viewers want to see someone who looks presidential, but they also want to see someone who's an actual person, with feelings. >> that kind of answer worked in massachusetts. that state, it works. >> but it didn't work anyplace else. it was bloodless, right. and look, this is a big opportunity, i think, for hillary clinton, because, she doesn't often show herself. she doesn't show the heart. when you get to see the person, as you did, in new hampshire eight years ago, she does very well. she connects with people. >> i'll tell you one thing she can do. if trump asks her about her marriage, she's going to turn
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him into toast. that's something she cares about, she's passionate about -- >> the fact that she stuck? >> she stuck by bill clinton. she's going to say, i've been married to the same man for 35 years, whatever it is. she's going to look at trump -- and -- i don't think trump's going to do that. he's not stupid, but if he does do it, he's going to get skewered. >> when it comes to his marriages, he's judged on the curve. >> that's the problem, he's judged on the curve on everything. >> it's television stupid. when it comes to style and appearance, the first debate between john f kennedy and richard nixon showed this medium. kennedy showed up tanned, rested and ready, his dark suit showed out and he projected youth and vigor. meanwhile, nixon had spent two weeks before that debate in the hospital with a staph infection after banging his knee on a car door. perhaps most famously, kennedy had the help of a professional makeup artist, while nixon relied on something called lazy
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shave. nixon's chin glisened with sweat, and his light-colored suit made his pale comparison look washed out. the chicago "daily news" speculated that he had been sabotaged by a democratic makeup artist. howard? >> it's true. appearance matters a lot. you know, a lot of consultants have showed me this, and i absolutely believe it. you want to see who's going to win the debate? turn off the sound. watch how the two candidates portray themselves and hold themselves on the stage. >> it's not all -- because nixon beat kennedy among women, if that means anything. it's not like, he's a charmer who's going to win. hillary clinton, appearance is no problem. trump -- the hair. but, you know, i wonder how much prep they're going to -- i think it's psychological. we'll talk about it at the end of the show. if you come in there self-confident. of course, kennedy was bred like this aristocrat. he knew, i'm better than him. and a terrible performance by mitt romney in the first debate, where he walked in like he's a better man than the president.
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it drove me crazy. i thought it was repellant, but it worked. >> he creamed the president in that debate. >> that self-confidence. >> yeah, absolutely. >> what do you know? when you get in the debate, do you ever feel if you're going to inwith or lose based on how you went in? >> i know it's actually true. you can get stiff -- i've been given a stiff upper cut by a couple of people. i had four really confident people recaall ganging up on me. >> we were rooting for you. my whole family. >> i appreciate it. >> it wasn't our fault. rule number four, sunts are high risk and can easily back fire. we've got to go back to al gore. he made that goofy attempt to intimidate george w. bush by walking right up beside bush as he was speaking. it proved to be an awkward, that's understating it, moment. let's watch this moment. >> i can get something positive done on behalf of the people. that's what the question in this campaign is about. it's not only what's your philosophy and what's your position on issues, but can you
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get things done? and i believe i can. >> that body check of w.'s, i know it's not intellectual, colleen, but something about most guys i know watching, will go, what a gooba. first of all, men don't like guys coming in their space. they're either robbing him or whatever they're doing, get away from me. >> he's trying to be too clever by half. and if you spend all your energy trying to trip up your opponent, you trip yourself up. >> remember the long kiss? >> you need to focus on putting your best face forward -- >> i thought that kiss at the convention was almost as weird. the roundtable is staying with us. this is "hardball," the place for politics. more of these clips, coming up. having fun. ♪"all you need is love" plays my eyelove is finding a different angle. my eyelove is season 1, episode 1. my eyelove is making a story come alive. eyelove is all the things we love to do with our eyes.
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well, is the patriarch of the bush family backing his family -- i'm sorry. i'm ready. >> standby! >> anyway, on monday, former president george herbert walker bush reported told board members of his point of life foundation that he planned to vote for the democratic nominee, hillary clinton. however, a spokesman for president bush told nbc today, the vote president bush will cast as a private citizen in some 50 days will be just that, a private vote cast in some 50 days. he's not commenting on the presidential race in the interim. in other words, it's a non-denial. by the way, we're just six days away from the first presidential debate between hillary clinton
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and donald trump. you can catch it all right here monday night on msnbc. i'll be joined by brian williams rachel maddow for complete coverage starting at 7:00 eastern and lester holt moderates the debate at 8:00 eastern. and we'll have post-game analysis from the spin room at 10:30. that will be me there in the spin room and stay with us for midnight coverage. i'll be there until 2:00 in the evening, as usual. and we're on sunday night this week. join me at 8:00 eastern for a special edition of "hardball," as we get ready for debate night. we'll be right back. real you shi ne through? introducing otezla (apremilast). ne through? otezla is not an inje. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months, with reduced redness, thickness, and scalinesof plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't take otezla if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. otez may increase the risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression
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difference between iran and the embassy in lebanon. iran we were held by a foreign government. in lebanon, you had a wanton terrorist action where the government opposed it. >> let me just say, first of all, that i almost resent, vice president bush, your patronizing attitude that you have to teach me about foreign policy. >> what do you think? it's a little tired to talk about it. the first woman candidate who will probably be the front-runner going into next week's debate. does trump have any particularly dangerous territory in this regard? >> there's a lot of dangerous territory there for donald trump. we've seen him struggle not to say something offensive when women have challenged him. we think back on the primary debate, megyn kelly, carly fiorina's face. this week when he talked about the pastor -- >> what's to stop hillary clinton good for the gander, good for the goose, what if hillary clinton unloads on him with every bad thing he's ever
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said about women. i think she won that exchange. >> she might look obviously in the clinton camp they must be trying to figure out how to get under his skin. how to provoke what they know is there just waiting to erupt. >> how about saying like, you haven't called me crooked yet, donald. when will you get around to crooked? that's what you call me when i'm not here, but i'm here. >> she says that after she reminds him of the money he took from his charity. >> you've been watching the show tonight. rule number six is that gaffes are amplified on the debate stage. gerald ford learned that the hard way when he made this claim about the soviet union and the cold war. >> there is no soviet domination of eastern europe and there never will be under a ford administration. >> i'm sorry. could i just -- did i understand you to say, sir, that the russians are not using eastern europe as their own sphere of
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influence. >> each of those countries is independent or autonomous. it has its own territorial integrity. >> imagine the cold war and the berlin war coming down about 13 years ahead of schedule. >> he did this by accident, but trump actually believes this putin propaganda. this was an accident. >> why did jerry ford say that europe was independent of russia? >> it had to be like a brain spasm. just he blanks. >> i heard he was briefed by a guy that briefed him said that he briefed him that the people don't see themselves as part of the russian world. >> see themselves as german or polish or whatever, but they definitely know the russians are there, okay? >> the tanks will roll. this is great fun. i hope the debates are as good as this. when we return, my election diary for september 20th. six days before the presidential debate is coming on this monday
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election diary, september 20th, 2016. well, there's a lot of psychology in who wins a presidential debate. for the first encounter it has already begun. hillary clinton took much of today off presumably to sharpen herself for the big night. trump said she took the day off because, quote, she needs the rest. trump's not the first
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presidential debater to try to get into the other guy's ear. when kennedy went up against nixon he acted like he never met the guy. it rattled nixon to the core. they had been working together in the congress for years and had been friends early on. nixon expected a duel between old colleagues. kennedy came across like a yankee executioner. i don't think nixon ever got over it. mitt romney talked down to him. it may have struck you as repellent, it did me, but it worked. the president just couldn't or wouldn't stand up for him. fortunately for president obama he got it right in the second and third debates. who will be most sure of themselves out there when they have to go face-to-face, who will have themselves convinced that they're the most secure person, who will seem in command, who will radiate strength? because this is one time there will be no applause to mark success. who will signal who wins is the poise of the candidates themselves. the one who sweats loses. the one who smiles wins.
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as the great winston churchill once put it, i like a man who grins when he fights. that's "hardball" for now. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in" -- >> they're bringing in, in many cases, this is cancer from within. >> donald trump's descent into darkness continues. >> we want to make sure we are only admitting people into our country who love our country. >> tonight, filmmaker ken burns on what he sees when donald trump speaks, and the dangerous logic behind the trump campaign. >> if we had a bowl of skittles on this table and 3 of the 1,000 in there were poisonous, would you take from the bowl? >> plus if you thought the donald trump charity looked like a slush fund before, wait until you hear the latest from "the washington post." then hillary clinton on the shocking tulsa shooting. >> maybe i can, by speaking directly to white people, say look,s

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