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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  September 22, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT

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it's pretty awesome. learn how your business can save at together, we're building a better california. all right. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> this community deserves answers. >> state of emergency. a third night of unrest in north carolina. tonight, what police are now saying about the video of the death of keith scott and why they're not showing the public. plus -- >> it just seems that there's a lack of spirit. between the white and the black.
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>> donald trump rolls out his unconstitutional plan to grab guns and stop crime. >> i would do stop and frisk. i think you have to. >> as his running mate urges americans to move on. >> this talk, this talk about institutional racism and institutional bias. >> and the shockwaves of charlotte and tulsa reach the nfl. >> i'm saying it straight-up, this is wrong and we need to do something. >> "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. tonight, major developments in the two police shootings we've been following for the past week. charlotte, north carolina, is in a state of emergency at this hour. as a third night of protests is under way. and in the shooting of an unarmed black man in tulsa, oklahoma. there the police officer has been charged with first-degree manslaughter. more on that in a moment. first, these are live pictures of downtown charlotte. last night during the second night of protests following the shooting death of keith scott,
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another man was shot as police took positions in downtown charlotte in riot gear. that man has, according to our affiliate wncc, recently died. we have not yet independently confirmed that. police say he was shot by another civilian. they're reviewing video to make sure none of their officers were involved. during unrest that continued after that shooting, further property damage occurred. police fired tear gas, additional civilians and police suffered injuries most classified as minor. governor pat mccrory declared a state of emergency about 11:00 p.m. and the national guard was deployed. questions about the police shooting death of keith scott which triggered the unrest, questions as to whether or not he was armed and if so whether he was pointing his firearm at police coupled with refusal of police to release video of the incident fueled mounting calls for transparency. today charlotte's police chief said he was honoring the request of the scott family to show the
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video of the shooting to them but bud not release it to the public during the course of the investigation. >> there's a difference between disclosure, allowing someone to see it, that would be the party that feels they've been aggrieved. that's what i'm going to do. release would be to the masses. that's what i'm not going to do. what i can tell you what i saw, i was clear when i talked about this before, is the video does not give me absolute definitive visual evidence that -- that would confirm that a person is pointing a gun. i did not see that in the videos that i reviewed. >> wcnc obtained a photo from a witness of what appears to be a gun. the affiliate verified the photo with a police source that said it is the gun found near mr. scott's feet. issues of transparency are front and center in this case particularly since governor mccrory signed highly controversial legislation in july restricting the release of police camera recordings. that law doesn't go into effect
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until october 1st meaning that restrictions on releasing police footage will soon be the new norm in the state of north carolina. >> when you signed the bill that takes effect in october, going to limit empbl moven more body dashcam video. in a situation like this, wouldn't one frame go a long way into showing who's right and who's wrong. >> i strongly disagree with your interpretation of the state law so i'll let you read the state law. i've read the state law and i stand by the chief's comments that he made earlier today. >> the family of keith scott which has now seen that dashcam video chose not to appear at a press conference today. through their attorneys expressed frustration at the position of which they find themselves in defending the actions of the victim. >> the police shot mr. scott. the police are the public servants. he's a citizen. so this concept of transparency, you know, yes, we want transparency. yes, we don't create the facts. we live with the facts. okay?
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but you can't take the burden that is placed on law enforcement and sworn officers and public servants and put that on a deceased person or the family who's in mourning. it's my understanding that his wife saw him get shot and killed and that's something that she will never, ever forget. >> family of mr. scott has now released a statement through their lawyers after seeing the video which reads in part "when told by police to exit his vehicle mr. scott did so in a calm nonaggressive manner. police did give him several commands, he did not aggressively approach them or raise his hands at members of law enforcement at any time. it is impossible to discern from the videos what, if anything, mr. scott is holding in his han hands. when he was shot and killed, mr. scott's hands were by his side. he was slowly walking backwards." they're calling for the videos to be released from the public. officer brently vinson has been placed on paid administrative leave while authorities
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investigate the shooting. state investigation has also been requested by the local district attorney. activated under a state law when the victim's family prequereque such an investigation. justice department, fbi are currently monitoring the situation. now, we turn our attention to tulsa in the shooting there, a death of terence crutcher last friday which you see in the video. the police officer who fired those shots, that one shot, betty shelby, was charged with first-degree manslaughter. a warrant has been issued for her arrest. arrangements are being made for her surrender according to the tulsa county district attorney. joining me from charlotte, senior pastor of mayfield memorial missionary baptist church, naacp and local clergy, is calling for the shooting video to be released. reverend, first, tell me why you think it's important this video be released. >> good evening, chris. i believe the video should be released because of the unique
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circumstances in which it find itself. that is, transparency is so greatly needed because i believe the zeitgeist demands that we pay attention to the context in which this particular killing took place. just hours after terence crutcher was killed. then mr. scott is killed. but also in the context of a city in which randall carrick is tried and was fired but was set free by a hung jury, so in this context, also in a city suffering through the things that charlotte economically is suffering through, that is the middle class and the poor of charlotte, there is a real powder keg happening here and it has begun to explode. i only say begun to explode because the lack of transparency is slowly building the tension in this city.
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so to the extent that the release of the videos will alleviate that tension, it's a really good idea to do so. >> i want you to respond to an argument that i've seen others make that, in fact, that it would be the opposite. the release of the video would enflame tension. we've obviously seen two pretty rough nights in charlotte. last night the devastating news of the death of that man. we have not yet confirmed that independently but at the very least, he was shot. he was on life support. what do you think happens next in that city? what do folks need to make sure we don't have violence like that that we saw last night? >> sure. the assumption that releasing the videos would create more violence presumes that one knows what's in the videos. and if we know what's in the videos is damning evidence, then perhaps that's the fear. however, according to the chief, we don't really know what's in the videos.
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moreover, to the contrary, notwithstanding, the chief said there were several people, officers at the scene with body cams on that did not have them turned on. so we really don't know what releasing the videos will do. what we think needs to happen next are a few things. number one, the videos need to be released. that goes without saying. number two, we're calling on the governor, we're calling on the city council, we're calling on the county commission, we're calling on the mayor, we're calling on the attorney general of north carolina, to declare where they stand with regard to releasing those videos. and thirdly, we believe that -- we've spoken to our mayor an this, there needs to be a task force on police violence in charlotte that brings together business leaders, clergy as well as political leadership on an ongoing basis. and fourthly, we believe that
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and we have asked for at various levels from federal on down, we have asked for an automatic trigger of an independent investigation of every police-involved killing of a citizen of color. now, we have an investigation going on. an independent one now, appar t apparently, from the fbi. the state bureau of investigation. however, we believe that a department of justice civil rights division investigation -- >> right. >> -- is really what is mandatory in a case like this when the tensions have been so high. >> reverend, let me get your response to one more thing. republican congressman who represents part of charlotte, man by the name of robert pittinger offered this theory for why people have engaged in protest and property destruction, some of the other things we s we've seen the last nights. take a listen. >> grievance in their mind is the animus, the anger.
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yes, it is, it is a welfare state. we have spent trillions of dollars on welfare, but we put people in bondage so they can't be all that they're capable of being. >> do you believe the cause of the frustration and unrest is the resentment of white people because they are successful and the protesters are now? >> well, i know mr. pittinger and like him very much, however, i'm very disappointed at his analysis of the situation. i should tell you that having been black in the united states of america for a very long time, none of those things has any presence in reality. primarily, people are angry and upset because there is the sense in our city right now that we are black citizens, african-american citizens, are living in a police state. under an army of occupation.
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not to mention the fact if one looks at the harvard study, what's happened in a city like charlotte, 50 out of 50 major cities in country, upward mobility out of poverty, and if you look at the data, the middle class has been hollowed out, eviscerated in this city such there are the working poor that we clergy meet every day who are working two jobs and three jobs and cannot afford a place to live. and on top of that, now there are these signals that are being sent and african-americans are not a monolithic, in other words, we are not stupid. we have the ability to analyze the signs of the times. case in point, we finished meeting with the mayor and the city council about 2:00 this morning and as we got back to our cars, we were accosted by about 50 officers arresting 2 people and told to go home. the pastor of the church was told, get in your car and go home. one of our white colleagues who was there was tapped on his
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shoulder standing near the arrest and was told, excuse me, sir. >> all right, reverend -- >> this is what contributes. thank you. >> reverend wherry, appreciate your time. i want to look at the live demonstrations happening in uptown charlotte, the third night, of course. see a very peaceful scene right now. it was peaceful last night and then there was gunshots ringing out. devastating news that a person who was in that crowd was shot. he was on life support earlier today. there are some reports that he has since died. we have not independently confirmed that. obviously the city extremely tense and on edge. we have confirmed, actually, i should say, that that individual who was shot last night during the unrest in charlotte has died. police have not named who the person fired the gun is. they say they're reviewing to make sure none of their officers were involved. they called it a civilian on civilian shooting. i want to bring in my colleague,
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tremaine lee. what does it feel like on the ground now? >> we've been on the ground before and always talk about the calm before the possible storm. right now here in downtown charlotte, relatively quiet but for the whirl of the helicopter above, driving out of the airport, the thnascar hall of fame, you could see guard troops gathering. behind me, i saw a bus full of what i assume to be national guardsmen coming in. it's calm at the moment and i've been talking to some clergy who say that they've been working all day trying to, dealing with the activists in terms of nonviolent protest, figuring out a way to reach the nonviolent protesters, those who have been disaffected. so often we see in various communities where the clergy doesn't have a true connection to the community. when the mayor stands up and police chief stands up and you have a line of older clergy members talking abo inin ining
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they don't have that connection here. i was talking to a minister here who said there are silos of group and organizations yet they do have a pipeline to the young people and they're trying to get their voice. but as we've seen in baltimore, we've seen in ferguson, depending on what the police do, their mere presence can be somewhat provocative. >> right. >> i talked to a number of people who said last night the protesters had been peaceful until they get downtown and see the guardsmen with their riot gear, with their shields and batons and may have sparked unrest. obviously foolishness unfurled clearly. again, the concern is the authorities, how provocative will they be and how will they handle the situation tonight, if, in fact we get a large number of protesters like last night. >> trymaine lee will be monitoring the situation. i'm always glad to have you as a reporting resource. thank you, trymaine. appreciate it. coming up, just four days away from the first presidential debate, hillary clinton is taking time off the trail to
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prepare. donald trump said he'd rather not to be fact checked. what to expect monday ahead. donald trump's stop and frisk proposal after this two-minute break. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me. ♪ using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the framework... wire... and plants needed to give my shop... a face... no one will forget. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at
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crooked hillary clinton is the most anti-gun, anti-2nd amendment candidate ever to run for office and as i said before, she wants to abolish the 2nd amendment. she wants to take your guns away. >> for someone who calls his opponent a gun grabber and paint himself as a defender of 2nd amendment, donald trump has an odd proposal to reduce violence in u.s. cities, take people's guns away. he's been talking a lot lately about his vision of life in america cities, places are according to him, quote, you walk down the street, you get shot. yesterday facing a fox news town hall in cleveland that's set to air tonight, trump was asked by an audience member who he would do about it. >> there's been a lot of violence in the black community. i want to know what would you do to help stop that violence, you know, black-on-black crimes. >> right. well, one of the things i'd do, ricardo, i would do stop and frisk. i think you have to.
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we did it in new york. it worked incredibly well. and you have to be proactive. i see what's going on here, i see what's going on in chicago. i think stop and frisk. >> first off, trump is wrong about stop and frisk in new york. since stop and frisk was phased out after a federal judge declared it it unconstitutional in 2013, crime in new york city has remained at historic lows. this despite predictions from people like trump adviser rudy giuliani and others that it would spike. faced with the media backlash over his comments, trump falsely claimed this morning he'd only been asked about chicago. >> i was really referring to chicago as stop and frichsk. they asked me about chicago. i was talking about stop and frisk for chicago. when you have 3,000 people shot and so many people dying, i mean, it's worse than some of the places we're hearing about like afghanistan. you know, the war-torn -- >> yeah. >> -- nations. it's more dangerous. >> for a point of comparison, there were 249 significant terrorist attacks last year in kabul, the afghan capital, alone, according to the state
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department. also note fox's banner during that segment, "gotham city gone wild." as i just mentioned, violent crime in new york has not gone up since stop and frisk ended. in fact, it has continued to decline. falling over 5% in just the last two years according to the nypd. still, donald trump says stop and frisk is the right tactic for police and knows just how it will work. >> if they see a person possibly with a gun or they think they have a gun, they will see the person, they'll look and they'll take the gun away. they'll stop, they'll frisk and they'll take the gun away. and they won't have anything to shoot with. you know, the police, the local police, they know who has a gun, who shouldn't be having a gun. they understand that. >> joining me now, vince warren, executive director of the center of constitutional rights which filed the class action lawsuit in new york that resulted in stop and frisk being declared unconstitutional. i want to start with this, the 2nd amendment aspect of this then we'll move along with the 4th.
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you know, it's somewhat -- you know, here we have a situation right now, you know, as we watch things unfold in charlotte, north carolina, which is an open carry state, there's a question about a gun, obviously, you can't brandish even in an open carry state. you have donald trump saying they know where the guns are, should take the guns away. i mean, starts thinking -- what exactly is going on here with the reverence to the 2nd amendment then somehow it doesn't seem to apply to certain populations. >> yeah. i've always been challenged by that question, with respect to the 2nd amendment, where people are like, we should have our guns and no one can take them away, unless, of course, they're black people that have guns then everybody should take them away. in fact, there's a conundrum there. when you think about gun control laws and how they were passed, they were initially passed to keep guns out of the hands of free black people. >> for that reason, ronald reagan in california did not like the panthers with guns on the steps of the capitol. >> that's exactly right. that's a conundrum that's happening. i can't make sense of it.
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the whole 2nd amendment nra lobby doesn't make sense to me to begin with, frankly. >> talk about -- you know, i think people -- to hear stop and fric frisk called, people who are constitutionalists in the center right, right of this country, a federal judge in court after hours of testimony flatly declared the way it was implemented in new york was unconstitutional. >> yeah, it was a 9 1/2 week trial we did, almost 200 page opinion. it is flatly unconstitutional as it was done by the new york city police department and as you pointed out, there are two pieces of it, the 4th amendment and ratchet it up to the 14th. the 4th amendment means police officers cannot stop and frisk people based upon their race, alone. they can't stop them because they look shady. they can't stop them because they have a hunch. they need a reasonable, articulate suspicion. we had 5 million stops over a number of years in new york and the evidence showed that for the vast majority of them, there was no articulate suspicion.
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>> here's my question to you. were your crossing your fingers after stop and frisk ended on the crime statistics versus some part of you saying, oh, my god, we're going to be blamed for this if crime shoots up. >> well, i think people were very nervous about that connection. i think at the center for constitutional rights we were not because we had done our research and we found that there is no credible report that showed any link between stop and frisk and the crime rate whatsoever. so stop -- that actually bore out. so if stop and frisk declined, that would have no effect on the crime rate at all which is the opposite of what mayor bloomberg was saying. what i was crossing my fingers about was there wasn't going to be a spike in crime unrelated to any kind of police program that people would blame on the decline of stop and frisk. >> what does it say to you about the moment we're at politically that this is what the republican nominee is saying, this is his solution to places like chicago where we really have seen a bad spike in violence, particularly shootings and homicides. >> i think, you know, the way that i would answer that
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question is that the idea of stop and frisk is something that people think is a good idea. even though the evidence demonstrates that it doesn't work. they think it's a good idea, even though it's racially discriminatory. day feel like it solves a range of sort of problems that they see that are visible. what's really happening, i think this is our big challenge in these days, is to match the facts and the statistics to what are good policies. and i think we can see some very good policies around policing that don't involve blanket stopping and frisking of people because they're african-american walking down the street. >> all right. vince warren, thanks for your time. appreciate it. >> thanks, chris. still ahead, mike pence suggests the best way to heal the country in the wake of unrest following police-involved shootings is to stop talking about racism. i'll play you what he said after this break.
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in colorado today donald trump's running mate mike pence weighed in on recent police shootings of black americans arguing while everyone deserves a fair, thorough investigation, application of law, americans spend too much time in the wake of such killings discussing racism. >> we ought to set aside this talk, this talk about institutional racism and institutional bias and when tragedies happen, which i consider any loss of life to be a tragedy. again, to move away from the rhetoric of division an to embrace the rhetoric of unity. >> some of trump's allies have gone so far to suggest were it not for barack obama, america would not have a racism problem at all. >> i don't think there was any racism until obama got elected. we never had problems like this. i'm in the real estate industry.
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there's none. now, you know, the people with the guns and shooting up neighborhoods and not being responsible citizens, that's a big change and i think that's the philosophy that obama has perpetuated on america. and if you're black and you haven't been successful in the last 50 years, it's your own fault. >> today in the wake of that interview, kathy miller apologized and resigned as trump's campaign chair in ohio. she maintained in an interview with nbc news after her resignation her comments were g not racist. america in the midst of an intense ongoing conversation about race, racial discrimination, policing, one driven not just by protesters on the street but by athletes who harnessed the nfl spotlight to force the conversation into tens of millions of americans' living rooms. richard sherman's powerful statement in support of colin kaepernick up next. over time, they get even better.
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seattle seahawks cornerback richard sherman took the podium yesterday, reporters expected him to talk about his team's game this weekend against the san francisco 49ers but after briefly addressing the game, sherman declined to take questions, instead delivering a statement before leaving the podium. >> more videos have come out of guys getting killed, and i think people are still missing the point. you know, the reason these guys are kneeling, the reason we're locking arms is to bring people together, to make people aware that this is not right. you know, it's not right for people to get killed in the street. i do a lot of community service.
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i go out there and try to help kids and try to encourage them to be better and to aspire to more, and when you tell a kid, you know, when you're dealing with police, put your hands up and comply with everything and there's still a chance of them getting shot, and no rep cush n repercussions for anyone, that's an unfortunate time to be living. you know, it's an unfortunate place to be in. it's not a lot you can tell a kid. there's not a lot -- you can try to inspire, inspire a person when you say, hey, we need black fathers to be in the community to stay there for your kids, but they're getting killed in the street for nothing, for putting their hands on their cars. that's the unfortunate par, that's the unfortunate place we're living in and something needs to be done. so when a guy takes a knee, you can ignore it, you can siay he' not being patriotic, not honoring the flag. i'm not doing any of those things. i'm saying it straight up, this is wrong, and we need to do something. thank you, guys.
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have a blaessed day. >> the movement sherman referenced kicked off by nfl quarterback's colin kaepernick's silent protest during the national anthem is growing. taken up by sherman, players at college, high school, pop warner level, as well as athletes in other sports including u.s. soccer player meagan rapinoe and the wnba fever. the movements that precipitated it keep happening. two black men killed by police in the past week. kaepernick who says he's been getting death threats is on the cover of the new "time" magazine and has become a national lightning rod. a poll finding he's become the most unliked player in the nfl, a league in which players accused of rape and other crime are superstars. fans claiming they would stop watching the nfl in the protests continue. it forced nfl commentators who grapple with issues to weigh in on profound issues of racial justice and that has resulted as
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you might expect in some very hot takes. >> no matter how passionate you are, no matter how much of a burden you have for a social issue, you don't let it get in the way of the team. and the big thing that hit me through all this was this is a backup quarterback whose job is to be quiet and sit in the shadows and get the starter ready to play week one. >> 49ers' linebacker eli harold said those prompted him to raise a fist in solidarity with his teammate, kaepernick. joining me now, former wide receiver donte stallworth. i want to get your reaction. are you surprised by what a kind of powder keg this has been in these first few weeks of this season? >> no, i'm not really. and it's becoming more of a thing where as you noted earlier that a lot of sports, not just football, professional nfl players, but sports across the spectrum of this country, are
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actually acknowledging not necessarily the method of what colin kaepernick is talking about, but the issues that he raised and that to me has never been at the forefront of this whole spectacle of what he's tried to accomplish and tried to raise, you know, raise awareness for for people as he said, himself, who don't have a voice. >> if you were in a locker room right now, if you were still in the league and playing, how would you be thinking about what you would do? because it strikes me how every player's got this choice they've now been presented with, where, you know, in every game, when they're preparing to do this very difficult, violent thing, which is play professional football, they got to make this choice about what am i going to do? >> yeah, it's interesting. it's easy for me to say what i would do either way, one way or another. i never looked at what these guys were doing, and a couple of these guys i actually know personally, but i never looked at it what they were doing was, you know, holding contempt for our country or having some type of contempt for our men and
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women in uniform. to me, that has just been a distraction from what the actual issues are, but as you see, you know, day in and day out, just these last couple days has shown it down in charlotte and also in tulsa where these issues are happening over and over, so the conversation has been, i would say, probably ferguson was one of the bigger issues that really made guys look at themselves and look at each other and say, hey, like what's going on? what can we do about this a? to me, another big thing people aren't talking about much is colin kaepernick decided to donate $1 million, his first $1 million of his contract to organizations in the bay area, the 49ers have matched that for $1 million and he's also, you know, even though he's the most disliked player in the nfl, hi jersey sales were up to number one, and he's also committed to donating nothose as well. same thing with brandon marshall, committed to donating
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$300 every tackle. these guys are not only talking the talk but they're walking the walk by putting their money where their mouths are. >> do you think -- how do you see fans responding to this? what struck me that's so fascinating about the situation, this is america's pastime at this point. surpassed all other sports. it's a multibillion dollar busine business. go through a year, the top rate shows are all primetime football games. you know, people, there are tens of millions of people across the political spectrum who are now confronted with this conversation. >> yeah. and that's the biggest thing that colin kaepernick wanted to do, he wanted to raise awareness for these issues and unfortunately, we are reminded, begin, you know, with the happenings in charlotte, we are reminded that this is not an issue that's going to go away, unfortunately, until there is some awareness on it. the justice department has had all these investigations from cities from baltimore to cleveland to ferguson to albuquerque. so, you know, when you hear the
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vice president or hopefully the candidate that's running for vice president with donald trump say that we shouldn't be talking about, you know, these issues of racism, that just doesn't make any sense to me. and that's another thing that colin kaepernick talked about, he described both hillary clinton and donald trump as two of the reasons, two more reasons why he's looking at a lot of these issues around the country as the way they are and obviously both donald trump and hillary clinton both having issues, you know, with her e-mails and the other things, donald trump is just a complete mess, so we don't have enough time to talk about him. >> that's true. donte stallworth, thanks for your time. >> thanks, chris. >> appreciate it. coming up, we'll check in on what's happening on the ground in charlotte tonight. that's next. ad again ♪ [ rear alert sounds ] [ music stops ] ♪ just can't wait to get on the road again ♪ [ front assist sounds ] [ music stops ] [ girl laughs ] ♪ on the road again ♪ like a band of gypsies we go down the highway ♪
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if you want help improving your a1c and blood sugar numbers with a non-insulin option, click to activate your within. ask your doctor about once-weekly trulicity. police in charlotte have just issued an unawful assembly order on the third night of protests followsing the shooting death of keith scott. joining me from charlotte is nbc's tammy litner.
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tammy, what's going on right now? can you hear me, tammy? tammy -- >> reporter: hey, chris, there's about 200 protesters out here. sorry, we're having a hard time hearing. they've been on the move. we're about a block and a half from the onliy omni hotel are everything happened last night. there are at least 75 police officers if riot gear out here. earlier than last night, they've started telling the crowd to disperse from unlawful assembly. you can see some people over here still. this is hours earlier than last night. happened last night as soon as they told the crowd to disperse for unlawful assembly, that is when they started sending off tear gas and flash bomb grenades. so we're hoping that doesn't happen tonight. chris? >> all right. tammy leitner there in charlotte. like she said, they are dispersing the crowd earlier than they did last night. it was last night after the crowd dispersed when the tear gas that those shots were fired which killed one of the people that was in the group. we still don't have the full
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details of what went down there. you can see there's about 200 folks assembled again tonight. t trymaine lee talking earlier about how he had spoken to members of clergy who were going to be out tonight. i've been in a number of these situation and often what ends up happening is a sort of long and protracted negotiation between numerous sides until the crowd fully disperses, but you can tell that there are some folks who don't look like they're quite ready to disperse. joining me now from charlotte, national reporter for "the new york times." what are you seeing down there? >> from what i'm seeing, just walking over here, there were hundreds of people in the street. the people as far as i can tell have not -- it's not turned violent. it's not what's happening last night. from what i can tell, people are in some ways kind of hoping this night goes a little more peacefully than last night. as you know, last night was kind of -- it became sporadic and really scary. the idea of that person being shot. so i think people are really in some ways -- they're obviously still passionate. the family of keith scott today said that they want people to be
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out expressing their opinions. they want people to be out talking about the injustices but did ask for people to be peaceful and for them not to break up their own city. i think that's kind of what i'm seeing. >> yeah, last night the news, the news of the shooting last night was really awful, and i wonder if folks feel kind of a hangover from that, a trauma from what happened last night. >> i think people are definitely feeling trauma from that. i should say i think a lot of people that i've talked to are feeling trauma from a lot of the different shootings. obviously i'm here in charlotte and talking about keith scott, but there's also that shooting in tulsa, oklahoma. i talked to that family yesterday for a long time. all these other shootings and all these other hash tags. people are feeling a deep trauma seeing a lot of people be killed and there's a deep trauma because a lot of the cities have gone out and been parts of protests. the idea people are catching their breath from ferguson, the idea we had an american city burn down a few years ago and
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now this in charlotte. i think some people are carrying that trauma from several years ago. >> yeah, do you get a sense in terms of the folks -- there's sort of been a spectrum of these protests from protests that feel very organized, that feel like there's a lot of sort of civil society groups that are there and sort of organizers, there are those who feel much more organic and much more sporadic. where has this been in terms of that spectrum? i know you've covered a number of these kinds of protests. >> i think like most protests that i've covered it's a mixture of both. i've talked to some people who i know have come down and are organizers in some ways, professional organizers. they deal with different activists, deal with different organized groups that have 50 c1 -- those are those who say they want to see what's going to that in the keith scott case and feeling pushed and led to come out and tell people what's going on in their city. it's a mixture of both.
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both of them are very passionate. they are, of course, people who in some ways do this for a living, know where to go, know what chants to say and know what signs to put up there. then there are the people that are feeling very passionate and very upset at what's going on and want to share in that way. >> yemiche of "the new york times." thank you. stay with us. we'll be right back. did you read every word? no, only lawyers do that. so when you got rear-ended and needed a tow, your insurance company told you to look at page five on your policy. did it say "great news. you're covered!" on page five? no. it said, "blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah..." the liberty mutual app with coverage compass™ makes it easy to know what you're covered for and what you're not. liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance.
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let's go back to charlotte now where nbc's gabe gutierrez is with one of the scott family attorneys, justin bamberg. gabe? >> reporter: hi there, yes. speaking with justin bamberg, one of the attorneys for the scott family. justin, tell me, you just saw the body cam footage and the dashcam footage that the family had been asking to see, correct? >> yes, sir. >> reporter: what did you see? >> well, let me start off by saying it was painful to watch, not just to see him get shot and killed, but to see the reactions on his loved ones' faces. what i see in that video is an individual who is sitting in a car who gets out in a calm,
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peaceful manner. he never appears to be aggressive. it seems like he's a tad confused. i don't know if he's getting yelled at from too many directions. his hands are down. there does appear to be some object in his hand, but you can't make out what it is. at the moment he is shot, he's actually stepping backwards. >> reporter: did he have a gun? >> as far as i know, i don't know. you know, we know that law enforcement is saying that he had a gun. i have not seen any definitive evidence aside from what law enforcement is saying. >> reporter: now, earlier in the day, during your news conference, you had said that you weren't sure if you wanted the video to be released. the family wasn't sure. you wanted to see it first. that is, at the time, was in direct contradiction with at least some of the protesters that wanted transparency, that wanted this video released. at this point, is the family calling for this video to be released publicly right away? >> absolutely. the family wants the police department to release both of the videos that we saw today and we want the public to see it, let them draw their own
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conclusions and i think it will have a very big impact on what we see going around us in charlotte. >> reporter: the police chief has come out and said specifically a gun was found on the scene. you and the family dispute that, of course. we've also seen but we've also the still image according to police sources to our nbc affiliate wcnc that appears to show within the moments following the shooting a gun at the feet of mr. scott. what is your response to that image? >> when i look at the evidence that i have seen, being the dash cam footage and the body cam footage, i do not see a firearm. i do not see a firearm on the ground. i do not see a firearm at any point during those videos. that is what i can speak to. >> so you're not commenting on that picture specifically. you're commenting on the video. >> i'm commenting on the specific facts that we are aware of and have seen with our own eyes. >> tell me a little deeper about the videos you saw. it was three body cams and then a dash cam video, or break down
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exactly what type of video you saw. >> we specifically saw the dash cam footage from a vehicle that is parked and catches essentially the entire incident from him stepping out of the vehicle to him being shot and him falling on the ground. we also saw a body cam footage from what appears to be the officer that broke out one of his windows. of course, when that officer circles the vehicle, the camera catches just the back of his head. so it actually doesn't see anything thereafter, and there were some problems with the sound on that video. those are the two videos we saw. >> the police chief said today he could not make out whether mr. scott was pointing what he said was a gun, he couldn't make out whether he was pointing that gun at all. you are saying you didn't see any type of gun, but walk me through step by step when did the video start taping and does it answer the question of what happened here? >> it leaves more questions than
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answers, honestly. this video picks up where he's sitting in the car. you have two officers positioned on the far side of a pickup truck yelling commands at him. you actually can't see the other officers too well on the dash cam footage. it shows him stepping out after some time and it shows him putting his hands down, walking calmly and it shows him stepping back at the moment that he is shot and killed. >> thank you very much, justin bamberg, the attorney for the scott family. >> gabe gutierrez with scott family attorney justin bamberg. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back.
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learn more at mr. trump how is debate prep going right now? >> i think it's going -- >> democrats for trump. >> we've got four days to go until the debate. biggest question for me, what will actually be debated. clinton's e-mail server, trump's alleged fraud or will they get to hear what the nominees will do as president? could go any direction. so far trump's brazen offensiveness has meant the campaign is about his personality and statements coupled with jabs about clinton's server management. and she's given it quite a bit of thought. as the huffington post points out, clinton's plans are as unambiguously progressive as any from a democratic nominee in
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history and almost nobody seems to have noticed. joining me is jonathan cohn, senior correspondent for the huffington post. a great piece. a comprehensive look at her policy vision. one thing that struck me that i think i actually learned, the first bill she would introduce would be a big infrastructure spending jobs bill which is an area that there's now some -- trump is basically saying we need something like that. you think maybe that could be something that there would be bipartisan support for. >> you would think so in a normal political environment, right? infrastructure is a popular idea. it's popular with the public, right? you talk about building bridges, modernizing our airports, improving the electrical grid. trump, as you say, has been for it. traditionally infrastructure is something the parties can agree on. the problem is, you know, president obama's also been trying to put forward an infrastructure plan, and he hasn't gotten very far. right now the politics in congress are so dysfunctional that even a newly elected
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president, if you imagine hillary clinton coming into the white house, having won the election, it's going to be really hard to get something like that passed. >> i think there's a relationship between that obstruction and how little the campaign coverage particularly has focused on policy because i think there's this belief that like what's really going to happen. so she's got a college tuition plan, a policing reform plan, a plan an autism, a plan for access for people with disabilities, tax rates going up for the rich, real estate, et cetera, i'm sorry, estates, there's all this stuff and what is this other than binders that you have in your office in brooklyn? >> right, right. there is this policy fatalism. and i think everybody feels it. i think if you talk to people who are around clinton, they would make two points. three points. first, they're not ready to give up yet. maybe they can get an inf infrastructure bill, maybe action on immigration. but if they do end up with a really obstructionist congress, they hope they can get some
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small progress along the way to these goals. they get a little bit of money to help people with child care. a little bit of money to help people with college tuition. the feeling is if you can at least start down that road and show people that government can make a difference in their lives. that creates a foundation for action later. and then, you know, there's a whole lot that can be done through executive action. and if you talk to progressives, if you talk to the people around clinton, they are very focused on that. they are very aware of the fact that the president has a lot of authority to set regulations and to enforce regulations. you will see a lot of attention if hillary clinton is president. to thinking about, all right, who do we put in charge of anti-trust enforcement. who do we put in charge of regulating the drug industry? and they are going to look for their spots. at least this is what they say, to try to implement their agenda that way. obviously, you can't do as much with executive authority as you can by passing laws, but you can make progress. >> yeah. >> i'm really curious to see how much she can drive home in the debate context. because i think it would be
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useful for her and i think it's been difficult to sort of break through on this stuff. jonathan cohn, thank you for your time tonight. appreciate it. just four days until that debate. you can see it here on msnbc and tune in sunday. the rachel maddow show starts now. >> when they passed the civil rights act of 1964, there was a lot of worry by people that supported the legislation that even though it was doing the right thing, even though it was taking the country in the right direction, even though it would alleviate some of the most acute injustices in the country that at the time were really tearing things apart, people who supported the civil rights act of 1964, even the people who built and wrote the civil rights act of 1964, they had to worry that that legislation might actually make things worse in the country before


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