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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  September 23, 2016 10:00am-11:01am PDT

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hear his wife who shot this video narrating what's happening moments before and after her husband was shot. as you probably know there's been an ongoing debate about police releasing dash cam and body cam videos of the shooting. charlotte police decided not to release those videos. we warn you this video which was given to us by the scott family is disturbing. you're going to hear the deadly gunshots but you will not see anyone get shot. >> don't shoot him. don't shoot him. he has no weapon. he has no weapon. don't shoot him. [ shouting ] >> don't shoot him. he didn't do anything. >> drop the gun! drop the gun! >> he doesn't have a gun. he has a tbi. he's not going to do anything to you guys. he just took his medicine. >> drop the gun!
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>> keith, don't let them break the windows. come on out of the car. >> drop the gun. >> keith! don't do it. >> drop the gun. >> keith. get out of the car. keith! keith, don't you do it. don't you do it. keith! keith! keith! don't you do it. [ gunshots ] [ bleep ]. >> did you shoot him? did you shoot him? did you shoot him? he better not be [ bleep ] dead. he better not be [ bleep ] dead. i know that [ bleep ] much. i know that much. he better not be dead. i'm not coming near you. i'm going to rerecord. he better be alive. you better be alive. we are over here at 9453 lexington court. police officers shot my husband. he better live. he better live. he didn't do nothing to them.
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ain't nobody touch nobody. they're all good. i know he better live. i know he better live. how about that? i'm not coming to you guys. he better live. he better live. y'all hear this? you see this, right? he better live. he better live. i swear he better live. yep. he better live. he better [ bleep ] live. he better live. where is -- he better [ bleep ] live. i ain't going nowhere. i'm in the same damn spot. what the [ bleep ]. that's okay. did y'all call the police? i mean did y'all call the ambulance? >> 2:12 of incredibly dramatic video obtained by gabe gutierrez who's been in charlotte. again, he got the video from scott's family. give us context here. how did you get it and why are
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they releasing it to you now? >> hi there, chris. the family of keith scott released that video. incredibly dramatic video of the moments preceding the shooting. they had not given this even to the charlotte police department until just now. they say they are now distributing it and that the wife is devastated. she didn't know, you know, what to do with the video. she has a mistrust of the police and how they handled this. now she's coming forward with the video. we can provide you context though. why is she outside of the truck and then coming back? as the family said before, he, keith shot, was waiting in the truck for his young son to come home. according to the attorney for the scott family his wife went
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inside their apartment in order to grab her cell phone charger. she was gone about three minutes or so. when she returned, that's when the video picks up. that's when she started recording on her cell phone. you heard that several times in the video that she's surprised at the situation. she's urging him to don't do it, don't do it. i asked the attorneys what she meant by that. they responded she was simply talking to her husband telling him to not get out of the car and don't do anything. just stop, stay calm. this video would certainly bring in a lot of questions. the family said it does not prove at all that he had a gun. if you can see the video, it's tough to see when the shots are fired. the cell phone video pans away. you see her come back to the scene. dramatic pictures. i can tell you, chris, the family wants this to get out.
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there was a debate from city officials whether to release the body cam footage and the dash cam footage. the family has seen those pieces of video. they saw them late yesterday. they say one of the dash cam videos does provide the clearest picture of the actual gunshots being fired. the video we are seeing now. we can hear the gunshots but can't see the shots fired. i can tell you, again, the wife filmed it and came back from getting her cell phone charger. horrifying moments as she hears her husband. several feet away sees him shot dead. she then walks back and talks about he better not be dead. she repeats it over and over again. certainly haunting. we should point out we did reach out to the city of charlotte for comment. according to the attorneys they had not distributed this to the police department just yet. we are still awaiting comment
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from the city of charlotte. they promised to get back to us as soon as they could. >> can i clarify? they turned over the video but not even has seen it to comment on it. i want to make sure i understand -- >> that's exactly right. we did call the city of charlotte for comment about a half hour ago. we just obtained the video a short time ago. we called a spokesperson for the city of charlotte. we are awaiting a comment from them. earlier today we heard that the investigation has now been turned over to the state bureau of investigation. for context let me go back at what the police chief and mayor has said. the police chief has maintained that according to the video evidence that he has seen, the body camera footage and the dash cam footage, the police chief said a gun was found at the scene. the attorneys, again, in the
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video that were seen for the first time breaking right now, the cell phone video. the attorneys claim there is no indication that he had a gun. we do hear officers say drop the gun, drop the gun. this cell phone video no doubt will add to the depate of what happened here. this is the first time we are seeing these images, any video really that can add context to what happened before the shooting. the facebook stream we had seen. it was the aftermath. there has been so much of the debate about the public release of the body cam footage and dash cam footage. there is so much talk about that. three nights of protest. two nights of them turning violent here in charlotte. this adds a new layer to the debate. >> it does. for people who may just be joining us and even if you saw it the first time it is difficult to take in everything you are seeing. i want people to know we have a team of experts here, analysts from legal.
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we'll take you there this minute by minute. and stop at the key moments. we have policing experts we'll talk to. civil rights experts. let's take one more look at the dramatic 2:12 of video. again you do not see a person actually see a person being shot. it does give you an idea of what the scene was when all of this happened. this given to us by the scott family. take a watch. >> don't shoot him. don't shoot him. he has no weapon. he has no weapon. don't shoot him. [ shouting ] >> don't shoot him. he didn't do anything.
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>> drop the gun! drop the gun! >> he doesn't have a gun. he has a tbi. he's not going to do anything to you guys. he just took his medicine. >> drop the gun! >> keith, don't let them break the windows. come on out of the car. >> drop the gun. >> keith! don't do it. >> drop the gun. >> keith. get out of the car. keith! keith, don't you do it. don't you do it. keith! keith! keith! don't you do it. [ gunshots ] [ bleep ]. >> did you shoot him? did you shoot him? did you shoot him? he better not be [ bleep ] dead. he better not be [ bleep ] dead. i know that [ bleep ] much. i know that much. he better not be dead. i'm not coming near you. i'm going to record though. he better be alive. you better be alive. we are over here at 9453 lexington court. police officers shot my husband. he better live. he better live. he didn't do nothing to them. ain't nobody touch nobody. they're all good.
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i know he better live. i know he better live. how about that? i'm not coming to you guys. he better live. he better live. y'all hear this? you see this, right? he better live. he better live. i swear he better live. yep. he better live. he better [ bleep ] live. he better live. where is -- he better [ bleep ] live. i ain't going nowhere. i'm in the same damn spot. what the [ bleep ]. that's okay. did y'all call the police? i mean did y'all call the ambulance? >> keith lamont scott's wife is narrating that. cal perry our msnbc analyzer of digital content is able to walk us through key moments. let's look at this. it is difficult. it's moving fast, some from a
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distance. what do you see as you view it over and over again? >> five points of reference to walk the viewers through. we want to be clear of what we see, what we know and don't know. the first 30 seconds of video i want the viewers to keep in mind this is the wife of keith lamont scott talking to the police but at times directly to him. listen for what she says about his medication. roll the first clip. >> don't shoot him. don't shoot him. he has no weapon. he has no weapon. don't shoot him. [ shouting ] >> don't shoot him. don't shoot him. he didn't do anything. >> drop the gun! drop the gun! >> he doesn't have a gun. he has a tbi. he's not going to do anything to you guys. he just took his medicine. >> she's talking there -- tbi is traumatic brain injury injury. we have heard from the family lawyer he spoke a few days ago. he said, quote, there was a very
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bad accident incurred by keith lamont scott. a year a he suffered severe bodily injuries and head trauma. that's what she's talking about. taking his medication for what doctors said is traumatic brain injury. the second part is his wife trying to get him to come out of the vehicle. take a look. >> keith, don't let them break the windows. come on out of the car. >> drop the gun. >> keith! don't do it. >> that video, we have frozen it on the car. there is san officer in the red shirt standing by the driver's side window. gives us an indication of how close the encounter had become with the police before the shots were fired. the third point of reference, you will hear the gunshots, not see them. this is the moment that police opened fire.
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>> keith. get out of the car. keith! keith, don't you do it. don't you do it. keith! keith! keith! don't you do it. [ gunshots ] [ bleep ]. >> did you shoot him? did you shoot him? did you shoot him? he better not be [ bleep ] dead. >> as we listen to this time and time again we hear at least four separate audible gunshots, possibly five. there are woods around that can echo around a little bit. at least four gunshots there. this next item, items we see on the ground around lamar scott. we'll play the next section for you and slow it down, zoom in and take a look. yep. he better live. >> we have circled this item on the ground. you see the item flicks out. there it is. there is one item on the ground. let's rerack it if we can, guys. one item on the ground and a
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flick of a second item that ends up being tossed on the ground. at this point we are simply not going to speculate about what those items may be. we have one more point of reference for you, chris. i know there is a lot here to talk about. we'll go ahead and take a look. the fifth clip. an officer leans over and what you will see -- again, this is the officer on the right with the red shirt, the black tactical flak jacket. he leans over and picks something up. that's going to be key to the investigation. this is the reason so many people are saying the police should release their version of the video. those items on the ground are going to be key to the investigation. >> the question exactly of what they were for sure. let me go to ari melber who is here with legal ramifications of this. this is obviously the first time we are seeing in real time how this unfolded. we don't see everything. we don't see what we would see from the dash cam video. we don't see what we would see
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if there was a body cam video. the family has seen that. their version differs from the official interpretation. what strikes you? >> this is extraordinary video. hard to watch on a human scale. the voice you hear is the voice of the wife. even before we get to what's legally relevant you have the human side. she's filming the shooting and what we know to be the killing of her husband. hard to watch as we did in the newsroom. preparing for the story first broken by gib gutierrez, nbc news. two big legal points i would flag. first of all the length of the encounter. the first 50 cents of the video shows the lead up to what we know to be a killing. i count 12 times officers said "drop the gun." multiple officers. legally that suggests you had more than one officer who believes contemporaneously at the time this individual was holding a gun and they made numerous attempts to get him to
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drop it. >> we don't know it was a gun but they seemed to believe it. >> let's state that again. multiple officers who are saying their belief over 50 second that is this individual was holding a gunpoint. it goes to their state of mind, not the ultimate facts of the case. on the other side of the ledger we are hearing something that police in their descriptions of the incident have spoken less about. what we know now that we didn't know 15 minutes ago is that his wife was trying to explicitly warn them while in the encounter that he had a brain injury and she believed he was unarmed. her view doesn't trump theirs but adds to the quantum of evidence about what the officers knew. >> we don't know if they heard her. there didn't appear to be a direct response about the traumatic brain injury. >> they don't address her at all. but after the shooting they seem to tell her to stay aawand we
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heard her response. brain injury is something he did experience a year before. it was presented by the officers here in a high stress situation. something else that will get a lot of attention. we can show here as part of the video once mr. scott is on the ground and four officers are surrounding him the area of cement there that you see on the ground around his body -- and we blurred the body for reasons of standards but the area on the bottom of the screen, it appears in this video to be free of objects. >> correct. >> as you know and as many viewers may remember as people in this community have been calling for release of the video saying they want more they have a still that allegedly showed an object some believed to be a gun at his feet. that's the comparison there. this is legally significant whether or not this scene, this potential incident or crime scene changed over time, why is
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there nothing at his feet. these are still photographs we have seen previous to this. >> this new video -- the still on the screen now as obtained by the family is at the moment after the shooting. you can decide with your own eyes in the comparison here that area on the right from this video obtained by nbc news doesn't appear to show an object. that raises questions. it doesn't give us answers. >> what questions does it raise? >> it raises the question of whether or not at that time from every angle was there nothing by his feet. if we got the other video, dash cam, personal body cam video we would more than one angle to say is there anything from the contemporaneous video evidence that shows an object potentially a gun at his feet. if not and the object came later how did it come later? did it come through natural,
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organic means? for example a medic moving a body that dislocated a weapon in a hollister or a waistband or through other means. i want to be clear. we are not answering those questions today. this video adds to the evidence that raises them and the police meanwhile are holding other videos that might answer the questions. >> i want to ask about legal implications of that. i'm told the gabe gutierrez who got the video and has new information for us, gabe, what do you have? >> hi, chris. speaking about the traumatic brain injury, yes. his attorneys say he had traumatic brain injury. we are learning more about it. his family says it was a motorcycle accident last year in october of 2015. he was taking medication for it. they worried he may have been confused. he was getting a lot of commands from different directions. as for the relationship with his
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wife they had been together 25 years, his attorneys said. they had been married for 20 years. they have seven children aged 9 to 20. an incredible scene for her to witness as she went to the apartment getting a cell phone charger. that's why she left the truck, had been gone for three minutes, returned and came upon the scene. let's back up. charlotte police said they were trying to serve a warrant on a different man. how did they zero in on keith scott or come across keith scott? we don't know it from the video. there are many unanswered questions. this raises so many questions that demonstrators here in charlotte have been asking if they can release the body cam footage and dash cam footage. his attorneys say again the clearest view they have seen and again saw yesterday the clearest view they have seen is actually the dash cam video which has not been publically released.
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today the police chief during a news conference saying it was now up to the state bureau of investigation. the mayor also saying she does favor releasing the body camera and dash camera footage. it's just a question of when. certainly the new cell phone video raises a lot of questions. >> gabe, thank you for the new information. i want to bring in former chicago police officer and criminal justice advocate dmitri roberts. i know you have had a chance to look at this. what's your reaction? >> it's devastating. it's heartbreaking. as a community member i am heart heartbroken. as a former police officer i have a lot of questions that need to bens a -- be answered. i don't know what's going on in the video that led officers to kill mr. scott. they are going to have to be very, very specific when they come out and talkbout this video about how their procedures and policies led to the untimely
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killing of mr. scott. clearly there is a family member present. she's yelling at the police. they did not take time to engage her, to hear what she had to say. she's saying he has a tbi. i have been in the military. i'm a combat veteran and i know well about traumatic brain injury. further, these officers know that members of our communities are suffers from mental illnesses, suffering from traumatic stress around many issues. they respond to dynamic issues all the time. they will be hard-pressed to find some reasoning behind why mr. scott is dead. i want to hear those as well. >> one thing we don't know and i want to be clear. this video is 2:12. we have been told she had been gone for about three minutes to go in and get her cell phone charger. we don't know what happened prior to when she came out and
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started filming. we don't know how long the entire incident is. i will say that when you watch it, things start to seem to move quickly. 12 times we hear "drop the gun, drop the gun, drop the gun." from your perspective is that one of the key points the police make? understanding that there are procedures in place, commonly accepted police procedures. if they felt they were repeatedly asking him to drop a gun and they believed it was a gun. we don't know whether he had a gun. we believed it w ed he had a gu. is that justification? >> again, this is early stages. not knowing the procedures at play or their policies, what i can say is it is very sketchy. before mr. scott got out of the vehicle they had an opportunity to deescalate the situation. further they should have fact-checked what was going on. he wasn't even the suspect in
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their investigation. further, when you have a family member that gets involved you should pause to hear what they have to say. there is always a point to deescalate the situations. we see the results from when that doesn't happen. >> if you will stand by i want to bring in a retired nypd sergeant and professor at john jay college of criminal justice in new york. do you agree with what we heard from dmitri or do you see this video differently? >> i agree and disagree on certain aspects. we heard the officers say it 12 times. at least two different officers say it. there is a strong likelihood he had a weapon. here is my complaint. we haven't seen the evidence photos of the gun. this is something where the police department should have gotten the information out already. some of this could have been avoided. they had been withholding the information. watching the video, i think
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there will be other videos out there. this is in a community where they should have done a canvass for surveillance cameras for another angle of this. my concern is you can see the officer, looks like he removed something from under mr. scott's body ands tos it to the side. that's the object in question you had shown with the red circle on it. that's where my focus would be at this moment. i have been involved in a police-involved shooting. you get tunnel vision. if anybody is trying to engage you and if somebody has a weapon, you are not listening to them. it doesn't matter what they are saying. they can become more of a threat to you in that situation. we don't know what's happening. right now there is still some questions that need to be answered. i wish the police department would put forward the dash cam video. if that's the clearest shot we have to look at this unequivocal to decide on what needs to be done. if something needs to be fixed. if there will be criminal charges or not. this is hanging over our heads now. it's a shame that we have to be
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held hostage, so to speak for whatever rules and policies and whatever politics are at play at this point. >> do you believe the dash cam video should be released and the body cam video? >> absolutely. i have been saying it all along. this is a situation where we saw a shooting in tulsa that they released everything, stat down with community members, showed the video. we have had pretty much peace there. we haven't seen what happened in north carolina here. that's part of the problem. the citizens right now want transparency in their police departments. sometimes they have been stuck in their old ways 30, 40 years of policing where things were done differently. we are in a new era of cell phones, videotape, youtube videos. we need to make sure we get the information out as fast as they can in order to prove or disprove alternate stories. we don't want a rumor setting
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off a riot. this is something -- >> we heard again today from officials in charlotte. they don't have any intention at this point of releasing that video. either the dash cam or body cam video. they reiterated that today. i want to go to trymaine lee who has been in charlotte. you have had a chance to look at this dramatic, disturbing video we just got in to nbc news. trymaine, you know the story. what strikes you? >> the last moments of keith scott's life narrated by his wife. don't shoot him. don't shoot him. after he's shot saying he better be alive. you can hear the pain in his voice. if there was ever a wonder why there is outrage in the streets, why there are hundreds of people blocking highways and protesting, this is it. this is just one woman's pain but we have seen it in ferguson, in baltimore. we have seen it in cleveland. now we see it here again in charlotte.
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the pain of this woman is spread across the community. you can hear it in that voice. we'll talk about whether the police will release video from the body cam, the dash cam. in that space if you don't come with full transparency it will be filled with something else. now that we have this video, we have this extra pain of this family. wonder how this will resonate in the community. we already know. while people are trying to pull themselves together there are more questions than answers. as we review the tape was there an object by his feet? did it disappear? was something else dropped? it's unclear what the objects are. all of that's fuelling the kind of distrust that so many people already have. >> we'll play the video with sound coming up shortly. i will tell you what struck me.
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the difference between how i would have, i think, reacted. although we never really know as a white woman in america as opposed to a black woman in america. i frankly would have been screaming, charging at the scene. she's very careful. in fact, at one point makes it clear after the shooting, i'm not coming to you. they tell her to stay back and she makes it clear she's not going to do that. it shows you that if you are african-american in america you react a certain way to police. i found it chilling. >> the reality is black folks in america, we clearly understand that so often your life is hanging by a thread. one false move could end up in death. this woman is emerging from her home and says he has a tbi. he just took his medication. don't shoot him. in moments her husband of
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20-some years is dead. that's what resonates in communities across the country when you are black and dealing with police departments. we have seen this time and again with recently released videos out of the casti willlo case wh mother has to compose herself because she fears her life is in danger. >> it never would occur to me, i don't think, in a situation that approaching police in most situations that i would go to them out of fear and not looking for someone to help. again, dramatic video. if you are just joining us it's half past the hour. trymaine, stand by. we have been over the last half hour showing you dramatic new video that was obtained by nbc news from the scott family. it is the time around two minutes and 12 seconds around the deadly shooting of keith lamont scott in charlotte, north
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carolina. video given to us by his wife. in it you will hear her narra narrati narrating. she's the voice that you hear as well as the voices of some of the police officers who are on the scene. there's been a debate about releasing the dash cam video, body cam video. they reiterated they are not going to do that. this video, if you are joining us, you hear the shooting. you do not actually see it. watch. >> don't shoot him. don't shoot him. he has no weapon. he has no weapon. don't shoot him. [ shouting ] [ bleep ] >> don't shoot him. he didn't do anything. >> drop the gun! drop the gun! >> he doesn't have a gun. he has a tbi. he's not going to do anything to you guys. he just took his medic >> drop the gun!
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[ bleep ] >> keith, don't let them break the windows. come on out of the car. >> drop the gun. >> keith! don't do it. >> drop the gun. >> keith. get out of the car. keith! keith, don't you do it. don't you do it. keith! keith! keith! don't you do it. [ gunshots ] [ bleep ]. >> did you shoot him? did you shoot him? did you shoot him? he better not be [ bleep ] dead. he better not be [ bleep ] dead. i know that [ bleep ] much. i know that much. he better not be dead. i'm not coming near you. i'm going to record though. i'm not coming near you. i'm going to record though. he better be alive. you better be alive. we are over here at 9453 lexington court.
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police officers shot my husband. he better live. he better live. he didn't do nothing to them. ain't nobody touch nobody. they're all good. i know he better live. i know he better live. how about that? i'm not coming to you guys. he better live. he better live. y'all hear this? you see this, right? he better live. he better live. i swear he better live. yep. he better live. he better [ bleep ] live. he better live. where is -- he better [ bleep ] live. i ain't going nowhere. i can't even leave the -- i'm in the same damn spot. what the [ bleep ]. that's okay. did y'all call the police? i mean did y'all call the ambulance? >> i want to bring in cal perry, msnbc senior editor of video and digital content. he's been analyzing the video and can walk us through the key moments. difficult always watching it when it is going through, but if
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you stop it and look and analyze it, it helps us to have some understanding and context. >> obviously difficult to watch. as we move through this hour we'll take a closer look at certain sections of the video. we are working through the edit process now. i want to get back to items on the ground. you will see them circled first in red. i want to be clear to the viewers. this video is 2:12 long. there are no items on the ground for the first 1:24 of the video. the items then appear on the ground at 1:24. what you are looking at now is a police officer picking up gloves. we know from the video that at one point a separate officer, one of the officers on the left drops gloves on the ground. a few seconds later this officer in the red shirt with the black tactical flak jacket picks the gloves up off the ground. that's something we are focused on. we want to give the viewers a look at what we are looking at.
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as you have heard from ari and gabe what's going to be very important are the items on the ground and the timeline of when the items ended up on the ground. on the left side of the screen whatever that item is that's being circled there is flicked onto the ground. you see it dropping there from that officer who is standing over the body of keith lamont scott. we'll continue to go through it this afternoon. we'll continue to zoom in on certain sections and unpack this methodically. it is dramatic. >> thank you. i want to bring our legal correspondent back in. we heard it from the retired nypd sergeant who teaches at john jay college. focusing on the gun. they needed to release the results. by now they know, right, if there was a gun they would have analyzed it. they would have known whose it was presumably. they would know if there is dna evidence on it by now, right? >> that's what you expect.
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there have been local reports about the process. but no formal police release. indeed we heard from the police chief a few hours ago, earlier today saying he was giving his final update because they were turning over the investigation to the state police. the problem is what i would call the selective release of information. they are saying they are not releasing the video. what you are looking at here today is new video obtained by nbc news shot by mr. scott's wife, not the police video that's been withheld. they are saying her not releasing it but they have been characterizing it. we are also hearing about basically some reports of what may or may not have happened to the gunpoint collected but not evidence as you heard joseph jackaloni saying you can release more information in real time about the gun you have collected. that was making a point about where you see one officer with gloves removing objects or
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attending to mr. scott on the ground. but again there you see the glove. that area arounded mr. scott's feet on the left as we zoom in doesn't show anything on the ground. so the questions here legally would be was this a potential crime scene handled properly? was it secured? if there were objects discovered later, as we see her the comparison. that was the alleged witness photo showing an object close to the feet. the still from our new video appears at least at the moment of the shooting, if we have the other image we can load it up. yeah. this is him, again, if we pull out a little bit. around the area around the feet. we don't see anything. not a glove, not an object. i don't see anything. this is the key image. investigators, lawyers and certainly members of the community, this is a photo they will be looking at.
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it doesn't appear to show anything by his feet which raises questions about the chain of custody about any alleged gun recovered at the scene. doesn't answer the question of whether there was actually a dwun. we may see police video that could show the individual holding the gun. there are a lot of questions that remain unanswered today. >> one thing we have heard from city officials in making the decision not to release the videos is it is a sensitivity issue. the family said release the videos. having said that, and we are not going to pretend this is any other case. because we know what's happened over the past three nights. we know how highly charged this kind of crime has become in america. is there a clear and substantive advantage to a prosecution or defense case to put out any of the information that they are talking about and i'm saying specifically the videos, anything they may have in terms
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of evidence on the gun. >> there are two reasons legitimately why you would withhold that information. number one, you want the benefit of interviewing and cross examining people without telling them anything about what happened so you don't cloud or distort what they may know or what they saw. you don't deny the ability to question them on issues of truth to say something we saw something that indicates you're wrong. in cases that aren't as high profile you try not to influence a potential jury pool. the problem for authorities is they have already talked about the case a lot, sometimes in ways that showed confusion and anger in the community. sometimes trying to explain what police were doing and give police the benefit of the doubt. whatever the motivations they have taken some of the arguments off the table by discussing this so much. this new video nbc news has
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obtained this hour as a matter of the investigation and the law, i think it is fair to say will put more pressure as a practical matter on authorities to say, well, if the problem was you didn't want video out there, the widow has released her video. >> this is the video she released. nbc exclusively just clarifying if someone is just joining us. the video the protests have been about, the video the family and the lawyer after viewing it called to be released, we were told again today they don't intend to release it. there is dash cam video, body cam video. this is entirely different. it is the video taken by keith lamont scott's wife. >> the other point that goes to the police version of events that's important because we are processing more information. some of the most emotional part is just watching a wife videotape a police encounter that turns deadly of her husband.
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she says, at times we hear her say did you call an ambulance? she appears to call for help herself. that part is heart wrenching. police lawyers, i'm sure would point to that the authorities here up to what i count 12 times, different officers, asking and urging and ordering mr. scott to drop a gun. drop what they believe or alleged at the time was a gun. that's 50 seconds i count within this video alone where they are doing that. that would be their argument for the justified use of force. that they had to repeatedly tell this individual to put a gun down, that he did not. they were in close quarters. cal perry showed the white truck on the right side of the screen. that's a little shaky but there was an officer advanced there. two others pull up. it escalated and that's why they acted. that would be the argument they would make. my take away is it raises some
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arguments of defense for the police on the justified use of force but raises a lot more questions about the conduct before the shooting and the chain of custody, the legitimacy of the issue afterwards. it raises troubling questions. >> i want to bring in tammy lightner in charlotte. you have been in the thick of the protests for several nights. how do you think this could impact tonight given the fact that the tape the protesters are asking for isn't this tape. >> the big question here as you said, how will the community react to this new video. this is a community on edge. we have had three days of protests. as evidenced by the boarded up building behind me. last night was calmer and peaceful. one thing the protesters maintained for the last three
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days is they want to see the video. this is not the video they were talking about. they are referring to the police video, dash cam and body cam video. the police chief made it clear it is not being released at this point. so the question is once the public sees this video shot by keith lamont scott's wife, a video that's hard to watch. will this satisfy the public? >> thank you so much, i appreciate it. i want to bring in former north carolina state senator malcolm graham. i should also point out his sister was among the victims in charleston. senator, you have been calling for the video to be released. if i can i want to play for you how the police chief has defended their decision and get your reaction. >> well, basically he said that he doesn't believe that there is a reason to do this and he's argued that for sensitivity reasons it should not be
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residence lea released. as somebody who's been on that side of it, been a family member of a victim, i wonder why you stand so strongly on the other side of the argument. >> well, first, my heart is broken for the family. having watched the film and hearing the voices of the wife it's heartbreaking. my heart is broken for her and her family. my heart is broken for our community in charlotte. transparency and accountability is important in law enforcement. over the last several years we have seen what happens throughout this country when we have black on blue violence. the thing that separates communities that move forward from those that stand still is those that are willing to be transparent and hold everyone accountable. the police department, police officers as well as the community. so i am just adamant that in this case here in charlotte because there is so much disparity in terms of what
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happened and now that the family themselves has released a tape i'm still calling on the city leaders here in charlotte to be proactive versus reactive and release the tape, make sure there is enough information out there in the community so we all can be responsive. we know there is an ongoing investigation. we respect the fact that an investigation has to be done very proper and very essential to what's going on here in charlotte. but, again, transparency is very important. the community had a great night last night. protesting peacefully. seeing this video now from the family, wet it to continue. it raises a lot more questions than answers. >> let's talk a little bit about the impact of the videos. i was looking back at a recent police shooting over the last couple of years. police involved shootings involving black men as the victim.
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as you know in a number of these cases there have been acquittals. many believe the acquittals should not have happened. is there value in holding back allowing lawyers on both sides to deal with this in a more have you seen in any way this causes harm to the case? >> we are in a new era. 24 hours news cycle. camcorder, cell phone videos, pictures. it brings news to the community instantly here in charlotte a
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year and a half ago. there was a mistrial. what's happening in charlotte is a repeat of what happened a year and a half ago. it opened that wound. that's why i believe transparency and accountability is so important and because we are in the new age of cell phone videos and social media that it is incumbent for the law enforcement officers themselves, those that are victims of themselves and for the community to be as transparent as possible making sure all eyes are dotted and the ts are crossed. >> malcolm graham, thank you very much for your time. joining me now congressman cedric richmond from louisiana and a member of the congressional black caucus. thank you very much for joining us. i know you have had a chance to view the video. what's your reaction? >> i did view the video.
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it is disturbing at least. i think now that the video is released it is incumbent upon the police department to release their video. transparency is important. when you talk about the mistrust between the communities of color and law enforcement and the justice system in general the fact that this adds to the distrust and some of the frustration and anger young people are feeling. there is an obligation to release it in this case, especially after this video is released. >> you went yesterday to the justice department. tell us about the visit and what should come next. >> there are a number of things that need to come. the department of justice, attorney general lynch should have vigorous investigations of all of the incidents from out in
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sterling to castillo, terence crutcher to keith scott. we have to be vigilant and show the american people we take these incidents seriously and we'll put the full weight of the federal government behind fact finding expeditions to term what happened. in the longer term we have to put money back into the community policings. all of those, then we have to focus on deescalation training. the one thing the video highlights ive to train officers better. >> keith scott's family made a decision. they had already turned it over to authorities but they made the decision to release it to us at nbc news. do you believe this puts pressure on the city to release the videos they have?
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>> for many people watching the video that the family released, it only creates more questions and with different angles it is angles. it from what i have seen from this video, it is very disturbing and the question becomes, could this easily be de-escalated? another way considering you have a wife out there that's talking to him, why not use her? the bigger question becomes if this was a suburban neighborhood, ahm middle class neighborhood with a wife and father in distressed, would they allow the wife to comfort or ded deescalate the situation? the last thing is the key here whether he pose an eminent
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threat, danger to anyone, and that i don't see at all. he posed no eminent threat. from this, i don't see where he pose a threat to police officers or harm to others. >> it is worth making the point the family after seeing the video and their lawyer have said they believe one of the things that would show if this video is put out there, they saw no sign of aggression from keith scott. congressman, thank you very much from taking the time. i want to go back to cal perry, he's been spending this hour going over this video point by point. i understand you have new information och information. >> yes, i want to go back to our still photographs that we had from charlotte. it shows the items there on the ground. on the left side of your screen, there is an officer wearing that re red t-shirt. this is the mystery that's emerging.
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you can see there clearly there is an item on the street. if we go back to the video that we found exclusively through gabe, you will see that item is not in the video. there is no item there to defeat of keith lamont scott. you will notice that the police officer in that red shirt is not over the body. so this image here from the v video that we have received is before the image now that you are seeing on your right of what appears of what people are saying could be a weapon. it is important as we unpack this that we understand the time line. on the left before and a few minutes after, that gap, those minutes, that's going to be key and that's why we are seeing so much ramped up pressure on police to release the body cam foota footage. >> lets bring in john barnette, he's a civil rights activist who knows the scott ph's family.
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i will just ask you, do you have any firsthand knowledge, did you have any firsthand knowledge of this video or why they decided to release it to msnbc? >> well, we had multiple videos. i got one this morning in my facebook inbox. what happens is i think this particular wife did exactly what walter scott's family did. they waited until they had an attorney and they gave it to the hands of that attorney. back in the days, you would give this video to the chief of police. because the trust factor that we have across the police officers, they trusted this attorney. it is funny because it is like deja vu, this man's name is keith scott. the attorney is representing both of the scott's family. the mystery is somebody took the video. we never have seen the video of
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walter scott's. with this mystery thing going on with this gun, who knows what would have been covered up. the chief of police of charlotte waited three days to release something that should have been released, you know, three days ago. and the sad thing is we don't know what's going to happen tonight or at the panthers game on sunday. we got to be transparent and the police have to be transparent across the country. why wait almost a week to charge this officer. they did wrong. if i shoot somebody, i would go to jail, don't wait a week or a month. they waited two years to release the video for jonathan ferrell for the dashcam video. and the lawyer sued for $2 million and putting some charges and complaints on him. they need to do right. even if you had a gun or what happened that night of travon
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martin's, i crashed in the grave. innocent blood is crossing the graves and the truth is coming out. i pray tonight, charlotte won't be a fire. >> john, you know this community and this video, people only have been seeing it the last 55 minutes and we just obtained this and we have been going through it carefully and trying to point out what we see. it is not conclusive and we don't see the moment. we have not seen those other videos that have bn called onto for police to release, but you know your community. what do you think the impact of this going to be? >> it is a sad thing about this video is that i am strong enough to wait for the legal process to take its place. the young people out here, that was out here last night, they don't have all those marbles together up here. that's who i am concerned about.
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this weekend, we are mobilizing a hundred men. i am going to have to get you out. just got to calm down a little bit. the hundred man that's being passed is getting these men to work with the police. the police need help. you got some 25 or 26 years old that are scared of these young men with their pants pulled down. we have to deal with this issue in america. somebody got to deal with that. if not, we'll have a lot of funerals and not only is half of american men across the country and shelby, north carolina, the truth the matter is, that's the first that ever got shot. that's the same place where dylan roof ended up that shot nine people in church. we got a problem in america, we got to talk. we got to really sit down and the chief needs to be transparent. he should have released this video, we got a problem and try to hammer this thing and lets
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put cops in jail or do something or it is going to get worse. i pray that charlotte is going to be safe tonight. >> john barnette. thank you. i want to bring in our joseph colon, retired professor and justice of new york. i have a few minutes, gentlemen. something was raised by our previous guest that i want to ask you about. they wonder why police did not engage the wife in order to deescalate this situation and in terms of demetri, was there a way to bring in his wife. she's yelling about the fact that he had a traumatic brain injury that he just taken his medication, could they legitimately brought in the wife and deescalate the situation, or does that put her and them in
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danger. >> it never puts officers in further danger to bring in a loved one or somebody that can help deescalate the situation. we have seen it all the time and negotiations and engagements with other communities. it is never a further danger. what i will further say is there are multiple officers on that scene. one of them could have broken away and pulled her in or gather her story and relay that information back to their fellow officers. further, they should have just listened. lets outside of police procedures and bringing it back to human factor. they're dealing the situation where somebody is coming in and there is more here to be considered. these officers actions have me questioning their policies and procedures but more so of what their realing intentio intentio. >> joseph, if you want to comment on that and pick up what he says. nobody knows how they'll react in a given situation, most police officers never find
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themselves fortunately in a situation where they have to fire a weapon. having said that, is there something that could have been done, again, knowing that we are only seeing one view of this and knowing that we don't have all the information that you would suggest to deescalate a situation like this? very quickly. >> sure, take cover and concealment that you had the opportunity whether to shoot or don't shoot. i said it before that it was a close encounter that they could have backed off from this. the only problem is bringing someone to the scene is not that safe and also you don't know if there is a dispute between the husband and the wife or agitating the person more. that's rule number one when you bring in somebody else. listen, i see a lot of training issues here. i see a lot of use of force issues and that's something that needs to be looked at right away. >> joseph and demetri roberts.
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thank you to you and thank you to all of your guesour guests. that's going to do it for me, i am chris jansen. thomas roberts. >> it is so hard to watch and i use that word lightly because also, i do put myself in a different situation, to be able to shoot that and have that refle reflective belief that this is something that i have to do. the emotion of watching that is a little overwhelming. chris jansen, thank you very much. >> nbc news just obtained the video of the deadly shooting of keith lamont scott. you are going to hear his wife in the video, who shot it, narrating

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