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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  September 23, 2016 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT

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concerned if clinton becomes president. if trump becomes president, the champagne corks will be popping. >> a strong statement from someone who knows the issues. i'm ari melber. you've been watching msnbc. have a good weekend. "hardball" is next. >> charlotte on edge. this is "hardball." good evening. i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. we're following developments out of charlotte today in the case of tuesday's fatal police shooting of keith lamont scott. nbc was first to release video today capturing the shooting. the video was provided to us by the attorney for the scott family and it shows scott's interaction with police. you can hear his wife's voice in the recording, as the scene plays out. the video obviously is disturbing and while you will hear the gunshots, you will not
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see anyone shot. we do not know all of the circumstances that led to this incident. >> don't shoot him. don't shoot him. he has no weapon. he has no weapon. don't shoot him. >> drop the gun! drop the [ bleep ] gun! >> don't shoot him! don't shoot him! >> drop the gun! >> he didn't do anything. >> drop the gun! drop the gun! >> he doesn't have a gun. he has a tbi. he's not going to do anything to you guys. he just took his medicine. >> drop the gun! let me get [ bleep ] up here. >> keith, don't let them break the windows! come on out the car. >> drop the gun! >> keith! don't do it. >> drop the gun! >> keith, get out the car! keith! keith, don't you do it! don't you do it! keith! keith! keith, don't you do it!
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[ gunfire ] [ bleep ] did you shoot him?! did you shoot him?! he better not be [ bleep ] dead! he better not be [ bleep ] dead! i know that much! he better not be dead! i'm not going to come near you! i'm going to record you. he better be alive! you better be alive! yes, we're over here at 50th -- 5493 lexington court. these are the police officers that shot my husband and he better leave. he better leave. because he didn't do nothing to him. he -- ain't nobody touch nobody so they all good. i know he better live! i know he better live. how about that? i'm not coming to you guys, but he better live. he better live. y'all hear this? you see this, right? he better live. he better live. i swear he better live. don't shoot him.
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don't shoot him. he has no -- he better [ bleep ] live. he better live. where is -- he better [ bleep ] live. i can't even believe -- i ain't going nowhere! i'm in the same damn spot! [ bleep ] . that's okay, did y'all call the police? i mean, did y'all call the ambulance? >> the city of charlotte has been racked by days of protests since the news of the shooting. last night, protests remained largely peaceful. the police have called for the public to release any and all videos that they have. hillary clinton echoed that request in a statement that says, charlotte should release police video of the keith lamont scott shooting without delay. we must ensure justice and work to bridge divides. and late today, clinton's campaign announced that she will be visiting the city of charlotte this sunday, that just a day before the first debate. nbc's ron mott joins us now. he is in charlotte. so, ron, the dispute this week between the family and the city
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in the aftermath of this has been whether he had a gun and whether that officer who shot him felt threatened. you have his wife there, saying that he doesn't have a weapon. you have the police saying, repeatedly there, drop the gun, drop the gun. obviously, there's a lot of audio here. not as much in terms of a video record. what is the family hoping that releasing this will achieve? >> well, i think releasing this tape is clearly emotional. you can hear it in this wife's voice. and that's going to evoke some sort of a reaction from people who are closely watching the developments in this case. one development we can tell you about tonight, steve, just came out late this afternoon, from the mayor herself, jennifer roberts. it's a statement, echoing what secretary clinton has said about the release of the body cam and dash cam video. she says, quote, in a statement, i respect the investigative process and i want to ensure the integrity of the independent investigation of the state bureau of investigations. i urge you to use every resource
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at its disposal to get this done and release the information to the public, as quickly as possible. now, this is a dramatic change in position that the mayor had just last night at 11:00 eastern time in an interview with brian williams, where she reiterated the government's position here, that they believe releasing the tape was not necessarily -- would not necessarily be beneficial at this time, while the circumstances of this shooting from tuesday continue to be investigated. now, today, the local police department, the charlotte-mecklenburg police department transferred custody of this case over to the state bureau of investigation. it's an independent investigation now, because there are police officers involved in this shooting. the fbi now will make all statements going forward with respect to this case, so there is now even more pressure now to have this public release of these body cam and dash cam videos that the families saw with their attorney, along with the police department. those are the only parties who have seen the official tapes of the shooting from the police officers' vantage point.
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as you mentioned, the tape released by mrs. scott does not show his shooting, but it does, in fact, you hear the emotion and her pain following it. steve? >> you certainly do. nbc's ron mott on the ground there in charlotte, thank you for that. and we're joined now by nbc law enforcement analyst, jim calve na, and also with us, collette forest, a member of the charlotte ncaap, and katie peralta, a reporter for the charlotte observer. so katie, this pressure we're hearing about, in the last few minutes, the mayor of charlotte weighing in. you have hillary clinton weighing in. the family putting this video out in the hopes of prodding the police department to release the dash cam video. any body cam footage they may have. what is your sense if that will make the police department budge and release their video? >> honestly, i have no idea. i wish i had a better educated sense of where this was going, but in all honesty, it does evoke a lot of emotion. i can say that for certain.
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people on all sides of this discussion are going to feel something when they listen to that tape. and i think you'll see that playing out in protests throughout the weekend, demonstrations, whether they remain peaceful, i think that remains to be seen. what the cmpd does, i think that's anybody's guess. >> jim calve na, law enforcement expert, watching and listening to that tape we just played in its entirely, the central dispute here the this week between the family and the police has been about whether keith lamont scott had a weapon, had a gun. again, you hear his wife there saying, he doesn't have a weapon. you have the officers there saying repeatedly, drop the gun, drop the gun. what is your reading based on what you're seeing here? does it shed any light on that? >> i think it does, steve. i think the totality of the circumstances show that mr. scott had a gun, but having a gun does not mean the shooting is justified. so let's back up for a minute. the police chief said they found
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a gun there. there's a photograph that was released a few days ago of a gun at the scene. and now this video is released. if this video is broken down very carefully, you can see, behind the officer in the red shirt, just after mr. scott is shot, an object on the ground behind him. the officer moves back with his left foot and sort of secures that, straddles that item. i believe that's the pistol. and he stays with it. you can see it starts on the nbc frame about 1:05 seconds into it. 1:08, the officer kind of moves his left leg back, he straddles that pistol, i believe, on the ground. he stays with it. later on, when the still shot is taken, that officer has moved ahead to mr. scott and they're trying to render some kind of aid, first aid to him, and the gun is visible, which showed up in the still shot. so i think, really, the totality of the evidence shows there's a firearm involved. now, that doesn't mean the shooting is justified. also, the frame shows -- there's a few frames that show early on, about 50 seconds into it, mr.
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scott's back, as he's coming back by the pickup truck. so we know we heard the descriptions of him walking backwards. it's very brief in this iphone video. it has to be slowed down and stopped to see it, but he actually is, you can see his back towards his wife. and it looks like his hands are down, from the way you can see it. so the officer who fired is going to have to articulate that, you know, there was some reasonable cause to -- that he believed that his life and the life of others was in imminent threat of death or serious injury. you can't just shoot someone for having a gun. so there would have to be some other reason to do that. but i think the call is about, you know, he did not have a gun. the evidence seems to be mounting against that pretty clearly. and the discussion needs to probably move on from that. >> collette forest with the charlotte naacp. let me ask you, watching this vo video, what do you see in that videotape? >> to me, even hearing the
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speaker talk and speak to it, there's confusion. he says there's an object, but he later on says the officer had to move his leg to be able to clearly see what's visible. i think that we need to have the video released, so either two exonerate cmpd and to validate what they're saying, that there was a gun present by mr. scott, or to vindicate the scott family, as they have said the entire time, that he had no gun. we're talking about an individual that suffered a brain injury. that's when she says, tbi, that's traumatic brain injury. i grew up with this family. mr. scott's mother word with my aunty at a health care facility. mr. scott's twin sisters took care of my grandfather when he was dying of cancer. so he comes from a caretaking, health-providing family. so if you truly wish to move us
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past the point of peace, release the video so it can either corroborate with what cmpd is saying or it can vindicate what the scott family is saying. but the longer that you dig into your refusal, i feel like you're only building the distrust that the community, african-american and others, feel and are feeling towards the position. and as it relates to the recent reversal of mayor jennifer robert, what we have to recognize, she's up for re-election next year. so she is not looking at what's best for the community or what's best for the family, because if she did, she would have immediately called for the release of the video. right now she's trying to salvage her very infancy mayoral campaign for next year and try to restore some kind of credibility to her mayor's office. >> well, earlier today,
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charlotte police chief putny regarding the release of the videos. here's what he had to say. >> i know the expectation that video footage can be the panacea, with and i can tell you that's not quite the case. there are a lot of other factors that have to corroborate, even which you might visually see. but the process is pain stakingly slow sometimes. >> katie peralta, i guess that's the question here, too. i mean, there's the issue of whether the video should be released. there's also the question of would the video resolve some of the questions here. the police saying even if the video was put out there for the public to view, that there was ambiguity in it. it's an ambiguous video. and watching the video today, you've got the police saying, "drop the gun," you've got his wife saying he doesn't have a weapon. you've got the wife saying, don't do it, don't do it, unclear exactly what she's refer there. seems there's some ambiguity.
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would it necessarily clear things up to have the police video, or the possibility that we may never be able to fully piece that together? >> that i think last point that you just made, that we might never be able to piece this together might be a real possibility. you know, it's now more than two days after the fact and there are still so many questions that linger. and i think that the longer that we wait or the longer they wait to act on this or to do anything or to be transparent, which they have stressed from the beginning is something of utmost importance to them. the locker that they wait, the worse it looks and the more frustrated people are going to get looking for answers. it just seems a little bit strange that still at this point, there are so many questions. and if there is this evidence that could be available, i don't know, you would think that maybe -- i don't know. it's just -- it remains to be seen what they're going to do with this. but i think that it's going to certainly cause a lot of heated debate here in charlotte. >> and again -- >> and chief putny --
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>> i'm sorry, go ahead, collette. >> because chief putny himself is saying initially that the video doesn't resolve anything, exhaustively, and there is ambiguity, then why wasn't his first statement, let's do an exhaustive, right now, i don't want to speak in a definitive polls. let's do an exhaustive search of evidence and gather the facts before we speak to it. but straight out the gate, he was definitively saying, he had a gun. he was definitively saying, it was pointed towards the officer. so if he's now saying, backing up, as jennifer roberts is, that there's a lot of ambiguity and the video will not answer all questions, then why on god's earth did you come out of the gate so twin tufly? >> well, jim cavanaugh, can you speak to that? the law enforcement, the police chief down there making definitive statements at the var beginning of this, saying that the video is ambiguous, not releasing it, but being definitive in his version of
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what happened. is that unusual, from a law enforcement standpoint. what was going on there? >> yeah, i think the chief probably should have held his state. that was a good point that was made there by the speaker. because, you know, he may be getting reports up the chain of command that the officer who fired had a gun pointed at him and he's reporting that. really, what he needs to do is say, okay, we're going to investigate it and look at the video himself. i think the video may show that mr. scott had a gun or the object in his hand may not be clear in the video, but it's going to turn out to be a pistol. they're going to have the pistol that's been recovered. maybe traced. i think you see it in the new iphone video. but it's possible mr. scott never pointed the gun. or you can't see that in the video. so then the officer would have to articulate why he fired. did he see a movement? because he would have to be able to articulate his reason for pulling the trigger. but one things that people haven't discussed, steve, i believe mr. scott was somewhat confused here. because the first vehicles that
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arrived that shot into the parking lot there were unmarked. there is a marked cruiser that comes in, but initially, there's some unmarked suburbans and vans and you know, he's sitting in the truck facing away from them. i think he probably becomes confused, maybe thinks it's a robber. you know, i've been on many raids like that, people don't know what's going on. and then he becomes confused and maybe if he was medicated, maybe he just wasn't acting right. so i think there's some confusion on the part of mr. scott, who was involved in no crime, committing no criminal act, may have legally possessed the gun. i'm not saying that having the gun means you can shoot him. i'm just saying the facts are mounting that there is a gun there, and it is in the video, you hear the officer's command. there's an officer in a red shirt who's standing next to the passenger door of the truck, looking right in, looks like it's there in still pictures. so i do think probably there's a pistol here. the question is whether it was a justified use of force by the officer who fired. that's a different question. >> okay. jim cavanaugh, collette forest,
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katie peralta -- i'm sorry, we've got to get into a break here. i appreciate all of you joining us. and again, this situation, obviously, hillary clinton going there this sunday. certainly, we have not heard the last of this. and we will be keeping an eye on what is happening in charlotte throughout the hour. we are also, while we do that be quopting to look ahead to the first presidential debate. at will be coming up this monday. both hillary clinton and donald trump are off the campaign trail, as they enter their final preparation before that face-off. we're going to talk to two of our political experts about what to expect. plus, how can clinton beat trump in that first debate? and what does trump need to do if he wants to put a win on the board? we're going to talk to two people, one from each side, who know just what it is like to prepare for the biggest stage in presidential politics. and the latest polls show clinton leading nationally, trump maybe needs to do something to close that gap at the debate, but we've gone inside the numbers to find out just how big trump's channlleng is going to be. the polls right now show people have some serious questions
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welcome back to "hardball." we are just three days away from the first presidential debate between donald trump and hillary clinton, in this crucial period, the candidates seem to be preparing in very different ways.
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hillary clinton has spent three days off the trail this week. she's been studying up on debate material, watching video of trump's past debate performances. according to "the new york times," the goal is to get under his skin. quote, mrs. clinton has a thick do dossier on mr. trump including analysis about his psychological makeup, that clinton advisers described as critical to understanding how to knock mr. trump off balance. mrs. clinton has concluded that catching mr. trump in a lie during the debate is not enough to beat him. she needs the huge television audience to see him temperamentally unfit for the presidency and that she has the power to unhinge him. trump's approach seems more lax. here was his campaign manager, kellyanne conway earlier today. >> i don't think he's locked up in a cabin for two weeks, like other people have been or currently are, cramming their heads with microchips and binders. >> is he -- >> he's a brilliant man. >> is he doing mock debates? and if so, who's playing the part of hillary?
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>> no one is playing the part of hillary. we all know hillary clinton very well. she's easily flummoxed. she did not see bernie sanders coming in the primaries this year. she did not do well in debates against barack obama in 2008. and she never saw -- she never anticipated our comeback in the last five weeks. >> and for more now, i'm joined by hugh hewitt, host of the hugh hewitt show on salem radio network. and jonathan capehart, opinion writer for "the washington post." both are msnbc political analysts. hugh hewitt, the trump campaign loves this contrast. the idea that clinton is huddled with a team of researchers and psychologists and they're spending all this time on it, and meanwhile, trump's sort of just going to show up and be himself. that's the contrast they like. do you think trump's actual approach, though, is that hands-off, or is he quietly behind the scenes, doing more studying than we realized? >> when i was on the stage, when i was there four times with him, is he is a practiced television professional, who spent hundreds of hours on stage. but he is not a binder breaker, as kellyanne conway just did.
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she's the toughest teacher in the high school. i don't think she should try to bait him. she will kill him. he will kill her if she tries to bait him, because he's the better performer. she's the better student. >> what do you think of that, jonathan capehart risk for hillary clinton if she shows up with these attacks designed to get under his skin and unhinge him? >> look, i think that secretary clinton is in what i call a damned if ya situation. damned if she does, damned if she doesn't. damned if she tries to overtly get under his skin, if she goes on the attack first, personally attack him. there's a danger of him either looking like the ap teacher with the hidden heart of gold or as someone said, i think on our air, that, you know, she might look like tracy fleck from the movie "election," someone that's unctuous and annoying, but very
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smart and hypermotivated. and i think there's a lot of psy ops going on here, where everyone's communicating either in print or on television what their candidate is or isn't doing. but i think donald trump runs the risk, at a time when polls show that people view him as someone who's temperamentally unfit and not ready to be president, to sort of wing it on a night when many people think that the biggest television audience ever will be watching, two people debate to see who should sit in the oval office, arguably, the most important and toughest job in the world. >> yeah, well, hugh, so this is -- hillary clinton had a little different preparation for this than donald trump, and in the democratic primaries, it was basically one on one up there with bernie sanders. she got more of an experience like she's going to have on monday night. and the republican primaries, ten candidates, commercial breaks, trump could talk for two minutes, disappear for ten minutes. this in many ways is a new setting for him, to be in a more
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rigorous environment like that, he's going to have to fill a lot more time. if he's trying to appear presidential, it's less about attacking the president, more about proving substance. do you think he's up to it, filling 90 minutes, in a way he didn't have to in the primaries? >> i think so. i think he's physically up to the task. it will not even be a problem for him. i don't know if she's fully recovered yet from the pneumonia. but i've got to say for the parents out there who just heard jonathan reference the movie "election," don't have your kids watch that movie. that's not really the movie you want them to learn about elections from. but she's a prohibitive favorite. the patriots are going into play the browns a week later, she is the patriots. donald trump, on the oddsmaker side are the browns. >> even if the pats are on their fourth string quarterback by then. jonathan? >> steve, a couple of things to keep in mind. this will be terrain that donald trump has not trod before. it is a 90-minute debate, no commercials, but the other thing that people haven't clued in on
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is no audience reaction. if you looked at all of those debates, between donald trump and the 15, 16 other people, he fed off of the applause or the boos or the laughter or the cheers from the audience. there will be none of that. that is donald trump's oxygen. and whether he can sustain a 90-minute performance one-on-one with no commercial breaks, without the ability to hide remains to be seen. i'm not convinced. >> all right. jonathan capehart, hugh hewitt, thanks for the time. up next, we've got two people who know what it's like to get ready for the biggest stage in presidential politics. that is straight ahead. this is "hardball," the place for politics. there are two billion people who don't have access to basic banking, but that is changing. at temenos, with the microsoft cloud, we can enable a banker to travel to the most remote locations with nothing but a phone and a tablet. everywhere where there's a phone, you have a bank. now a person is able to start a business, and employ somebody for the first time.
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i'm milissa rehberger. here's what's happening. president barack obama today vetoed legislation that would allow families of victims of the september 11th attacks to sue saudi arabia, saying the bill would hurt u.s. national security interests. the move sets mr. obama up for a possible first veto override by congress. and representatives of the u.s. and russia met today, but made little progress on how to stop the syrian civil war. that is according to u.s. secretary of state, john kerry. back to "hardball". >> welcome back to "hardball." the outcome of the first presidential debate between hillary clinton and donald trump depends in large part on whether they can successfully execute their strategies once they come face to face on monday night. republican pollster frank lutz
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says for hillary clinton to win, she is going to need to prove her case that donald trump is unfit for office. here's his advice to clinton. says, quote, her mission is to demonstrate that every time he talks on the global stage, his words could defile the office, embarrass the country, and yes, even provoke a war. your objective should be to put donald trump and everything he has stood for on trial. as for trump, he needs to break that narrative and deflect clinton's attempts to box him. conservative commentator pat buchanan wrote, trump has to convince a plurality of voters who seem prepared to vote for him that he is not a terrible risk and that he will be a president for which they can be proud. the trump on stage at ofstra university will have 90 minutes to show that the malicious cartoon of trump is a libelous lie. but he says, trump does not have to show a mastery of foreign and domestic policy details. he has to meet and exceed expectations, which are not terribly high. i'm joined now by msnbc
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political analyst, rick tyler, who played donald trump in mock debates, when he was an adviser to the cruz campaign, as well as former michigan governor, jennifer granholm, senior adviser to the pro-hillary super pac, correct the record. well, rick tyler, with an introduction like that, let's start with you. if you want to prepare a candidate to face donald trump on this stage, you've done it. the clinton campaign's trying to do it right now. what's your advice to them? >> i think it's probably feeding his own words to him. and that is, she needs to memorize a lot of his quotes about foreign policy and some of the absurdities that he's said and just challenge him on that. having said that, i think that she has to convince the country that she is likable and honest and is in command of the facts. those are her strengths. donald trump has to convince people he has the temperament to be president. my speculation and my guess is that donald trump will show up and be disciplined for this 90-minute debate. and because he's graded on a bell curve, he'll probably perform very well. >> jennifer granholm, let's pick
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it up there. if that's what happens, if kellyanne conway, who's been trying to discipline donald trump, she's been doing a pretty good job keeping him off twitter, i would say. she's toned it down on there, if that's the standard. if she succeeds in getting him to show up at this debate and doing what rick tyler is talking about, that he's there, trying to look presidential, he's not trying to look presidential, we're not necessarily seeing the primary season donald trump that we saw in the debates, what does hillary clinton do? does she try to prod him, try to provoke him, or just try to be more presidential than him on that stage? >> well, i'm sure there will be some element of trying to play his words back to him and see how he responds. i'm sure there'll be some element of drawing out and calling him out on the lies that he's told in the past. i betcha there'll be some kind of debate bingo card, which lists the top ten donald trump lies, like, you know, that he opposed the war in iraq or opposed going into libya. but what this is really for her is a chance in an unfiltered way
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to talk to people and say why she is going to fight for them. what is in her heart, to come across, and i think rick is right about this, to come across in a way that counters the impression that the right has tried to build up about her, that she's not likable, but that she really is. she's got a sense of humor. everybody knows she knows the policy. she's got that down. but she has a chance to speak directly to people about why she's going to fight for them. and why he is completely unacceptable. >> what's the key, rick tyler? you've studied him. you've gone head to head with him. what's the key? if you want to throw donald trump off his game in one of these debatedebates, what do yo? >> i think that's exactly what he's prepared for. feed his words to him, where it's obviously that what he has said is wrong and she's trying to make a fool of him, or to mock him, somehow. that would normally get under his skin. it may get under his skin, but he can't allow it to. and i think that's probably what his debate team is coaching him
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on, that if he gives in to that temptation, that he's going to lose. >> and jennifer granholm, let me ask you about the expectations that we have a pat buchanan quote there. i keep thinking back to george w. bush, al gore, those 2000 debates, those fall 2000 debates. the expectation gap heading into those debates. al gore was supposed to be this peerless debater. george w. bush was supposed to be sort of clumsy on stage. those were the perceptions when people saw them head-to-head, they were surprised in many cases. they say, well, bush was a little better than i thought, and gore was maybe a little weak. that disparity ended up benefiting bush. are you concerned that could happen with trump here, too? >> of course! correct the record has done a compilation of all of the network anchors who have admitted that he's being graded on a curve. so, we're hopeful that, you know, stations like msnbc, nbc, are going to -- >> but jennifer, can i ask you -- can i ask you, not from the standpoint of a top-down, what the media tells people to
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think, perspective. i'm telling you, from the perspective of americans who have seen a version of donald trump in the primary debates, who was very sort of in your face with opponents, if a different donald trump shows up at this debate, just to the everyday voter watching them on tv, forget what i say or anybody says in the media, are you concerned how that voter is going to react? >> yeah, but here's the thing. she has an opportunity to point this out. the man has spent his whole life conning people. and here he is, conning you again. mr. con man is now conning you into thinking that he can be presidential. this is one time. this is 90 minutes. but remember, he's got a full record that we can continue to remind you about. don't be fooled. >> the only problem with that, governor, is that, you know, there's going to about 100 million people that are going to tune into this debate and a significant number of them not paying that close of attention, not like you and i, and there's no context. there's not going to be enough time to explain on either side, you know, to prosecute, if you
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like, hillary's lack of leadership as secretary of state or donald trump's many scandals over the years. not to develop them. so people may come and look at donald trump, and if he is disciplined, and they'll see a donald trump they didn't expect. it's always about expectations. if they come to say, this is the guy everyone's been talking about, seems kind of reasonable to me. and my prediction is, both of the candidates will probably do fairly well in the debate. i don't think there'll be any defining moments of a winner or a loser. and that's usually how most debates go. it will be the post-narrative of the debate. the day after. that's the day the campaigns can never forget. they've got to make sure they get their story out there. and whatever narrative develops out of that, that's who will win the debate. >> yeah, i think that's true. >> rick tyler and jennifer granholm, i've got end to it there. thank you both. i appreciate it. some good pre-game talk right there. up next, the big challenges facing donald trump heading into that first debate. hillary clinton has got the lead in the polls now and a majority of americans say they have serious questions about whether
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trump can actually be president. the plausibility test. that's ahead. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. constipated? trust number one doctor recommended dulcolax use dulcolax tablets for gentle overnight relief suppositories for relief in minutes and stool softeners for comfortable relief of hard stools. dulcolax, designed for dependable relief runstaying in a differentns hotel every night. so i use the hotels.com rewards program to earn free nights. which i can use for my new friends here. thanks, captain obvious. you're welcome. roger that, sir.
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all right. welcome back to "hardball." we're just three days away now from the first presidential debate between hillary clinton and donald trump and heading into that big showdown, let's take a look at where the race stands right now and what the big challenges are facing the candidates, as they head into it. let's give you, first of all, nationally, it's good news for hillary clinton this week. remember, last week, the stories were about the polls tightening. maybe it was the fallout from hillary clinton's health scare at ground zero on the 9/11 anniversary, but this week, look at this. the past three national polls, a new one out just tonight, mcclatchy and marist puts her up by seven points. our own nbc news/"wall street journal" poll, seven. our survey monkey online poll puts her ahead again. these are healthy leads that clinton seems to be reestablishing an average, all the polls out there, a
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three-point lead. that's trending pup and we can also show you this. the polls we have out there raise a real question about where the ceilings are for these candidates. how high can they climb in their support? and really the question is, is hillary clinton's ceiling higher than donald trump. and if you go back to the beginning of september, you can count nine polls where hillary clinton has scored 48% or higher. nine polls where she's hit at least 48%. how many for donald trump? zero. so hillary clinton has been able to climb higher in these polls so far than donald trump has. when the race has tightened, it hasn't so much been because donald trump's numbers are rising, it's been because hillary clinton's support has been falling. so that could be key as we get to election day. is that offering us a clue about whether the ceiling is just too low for donald trump? that's something to think about. also this. think about this heading into the debates. some basic questions voters have about these candidates. a simple question here, is the candidate qualified to be president? look at that advantage hillary clinton has over donald trump,
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just 30% of voters right now saying donald trump is qualified to be president. so there's a plausibility test there. a plausibility problem right now for donald trump. that's something he has to address at this debate. how about this, as well. the question, does the candidate not respect ordinary americans? hillary clinton's numbers not good this. 48% say she does not respect ordinary americans. the trump campaign has been trying to drive that message home focusing on her deplorables comment. but donald trump, 60% of americans say he doesn't respect ordinary americans. that's a challenge for him. how about and this one. we don't see numbers like this in presidential races, but we do this year. the question is, is the candidate racist? half the voters right now say that donald trump is racist. just 21% for hillary clinton. of course, with the news in charlotte this week, the news in tulsa, the issues of race and policing, likely to come up in this debate. that number probably worth keeping in mind, as well. so some of the numbers to have in your heads as we head to the debate. right now, we're going to head
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over to the "hardball" roundtable. mckay coppins, a senior political writer with buzz feed. and we have a national political reporter for bloomloomberg. and i've been too slow walking over here, so i'll keep talking as i climb the stage, take my seat, and say hello, mckay coppins. all those numbers we just ran through there. is it realistic to think after 90 minutes of debate on monday night against hillary clinton, that that number of people who say he's not qualified to be president, that that falls? that the number of people who say he's a racist, that that falls. can he make progress on monday night? >> he may be able to chip away at the margins. but when half the voters, 50% say that a candidate is racist, that's a pretty heavy charge to level in this country. and i think most voters take that very seriously. and i don't think most people watching a debate for 90 minutes, no matter how well a candidate performs, is going to change their minds overnight. if he turns over a new leaf or something in this debate and continues it through election
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day, maybe he can chip away at it a little bit more, but i don't think that you can fundamentally change the electorate's perception of you with one debate. >> and this is something i've been wondering about, because we talk so much about, these are the two most unpopular nominees ever put forward by the parties. and hillary clinton's personal negative numbers, unfavorable numbers, they are through the roof. donald trump's in most polls, they're through the roof and even a little bit more through the roof than hers. they're both very hard. my question when i start seeing poll numbers like that, on the question of racism, i don't know if this can really be measured in polling. there a possibility, though. he is more unlikable, he is more severely objectionable to people than she is. they may not like both of them, but the degree to which they dislike him is more intense. >> absolutely. and that's what the clinton team is hoping, right? they're hoping they can make the case. this new add out today, where she has this horrific series of statements that he made about women. and she has these young girls watching these stapltements. it is horrifying for any woman
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or father or brother to watch this thing. that's what they're hoping to do, say, even if you don't trust her, even if you have issues with hillary clinton, you cannot trust him. he is far, far worse. and the trump campaign is hoping to do the same thing with hillary clinton. they're hoping to say that, you know, i may not be your favorite republican, but i am far better that that clinton or any clinton, because that's something that brings republicans together. they're hoping that's true and we'll have to see. >> you mentioned the ad the clinton campaign is out, we have that. let's take a look at what the clinton campaign is putting up here. >> i'd look her right in that fat ugly face of hers. she's a slob. she ate like a pig. a person who's flat-chested is very hard to be a 10. does she have a good body? no. does she have a fat [ bleep ]? absolutely. >> you treat women with respect? >> i can't say that either. >> all right. >> uh. >> all right. so by the same token here, with
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all these negatives we just went through with donald trump, all the negatives the clinton campaign sees there, he's within striking distance of her, especially when you start looking aft some of these battleground state polls, he is not that far behind. so he needs something, but he maybe doesn't need that much. d >> he needs, number up with, to break hillary clinton's firewall in colorado, pennsylvania, and virginia. those are the three states she's maintained a lead even as she's slipped in other states. he needs to maintain his lead, and flip one of those. and the only way he can do that, with he's got to pass the plausibility test. he's got to move those numbers. if not, if this many people cannot imagine him as president, don't think he has the basic qualifications for the job, that's a very difficult thing to fix and that's what he's got to try to do. otherwise, he can get very close to her in recent polls, but he's not going to be able to flip these swing states. >> the roundtable is staying with us. up next, ted cruz finally comes around. he is backing donald trump despite their ugly, and that is putting it mildly, praimary
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battle. this is hard baril, the place for politics. 77 no, only lawyers do that. so when you got rear-ended and needed a tow, your insurance company told you to look at page five on your policy. did it say "great news. you're covered!" on page five? no. it said, "blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah..." the liberty mutual app with coverage compass™ makes it easy to know what you're covered for and what you're not. liberty stands with you. liberty mutual insurance.
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let's just get a sandwich or something. "or something"? you don't just graduate from medical school, "or something." and we don't just pull smoked chicken, bake fresh foccacia and hand-slice avocado. there's nothing "or something" about it. we're back with the roundtable. mckay, jeanne and sahil. we've come a long way from when
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donald trump accused ted cruz's father may have had something to do with the kennedy assassination. >> he was with lee harvey oswald prior to kennedy being shot. and nobody even brings it up. they don't even talk about that. that was reported and nobody talks about it. but i think it's horrible. >> after refusing to endorse trump at the republican convention in july ted cruz today posted on his facebook page that he will be voting for donald trump this november. mckay, what's going on? was ted cruz surprised at the reaction of the republican party to what he didt the convention? >> yeah, well, so, yes, i have heard from people close to ted cruz that he was not expecting quite such a dramatic reaction at the rnc. but i think what also is going on here is ted cruz is up for re-election in 2018. he's just by nature of the very combative, divisive first term in the senate he has had, he does not have a ton of allies in the state republican party oar
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the national republican party, the kind of allies that an incumbent traditionally has. he's worried ba primary and needs to make sure the conservatives are still on his side and i think made the calculation that supporting trump is a necessity to keep those people on his side. >> will it do it, though, or is it too late, too transparent? >> it's a politician playing politics. nobody is surprised by this. we saw marco rubio, i'm not running, now i'm running, i can't stand donald trump, i'll go speak at the convention. i do think voters actually do forgive them. i do think it will work. because i don't think anybody is surprised when a politician says, it's in my best interests now to endorse. so i don't think anybody will look askance at that. i think it will work for them. >> the roundtable is sticking with us. up next these three will tell me something i don't know. that shouldn't be too hard. ♪
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we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. tell me something i don't know. >> a moo study out by the rand corporation provides a rare glimpse into the candidate's health care plans. hillary clinton's plan is expected to ensure 9 million people at the cost of 90 million. donald trump's plan to repeal and replace obamacare is expected to add $3 about billion to the deficit and cost up to 20 million americans their coverage. >> something we might be hearing about in that debate. >> we had a chance to talk to
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congressman brick lazio who was famously the one who approached hillary clinton on the podium in the new york senate race and it was just fascinating to hear him talk about his recollection as to what happened, and what he says his campaign manager approached him before, said your numbers look good, but you got to be tough out there. you can't let her get the better of you. that's when he approached and it wasn't rehearsed and he said, i regret it because it was never me. that's all we remember from that debate, which goes to show no matter what you say, it doesn't matter. it's how you present and you got to be yourself. >> you think he ever gets tired of talking about that? >> hates it. poor guy. >> my colleague at buzzfeed covers the hillary clinton campaign. she has a great in depth story about a debate inside the clinton campaign and among democrats how to approach donald trump from a messaging standpoint and the ultimate decision to disaggregate him from the rest of the republican party saying he's even more extreme than the rest of the republicans. this is causing a lot of waves in progressive and democratic
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circles who are worried about down-ballot races and the implications on the rest of the leaked. this is something we'll keep hearing about. check out the story. >> mckay coppins, jeanne zaino, issahil kapur, thank you. all in with chris haes starts now. tonight on "all in." >> don't shoot him. don't shoot him. >> cell phone video of keith scott's fatal encounter with police released by his wife today. >> did you shoot him? >> charlotte braces for reaction as community leaders demand to see the police dash cam footage. >> i was adamant i'm not going to put out one piece of evidence that could further inflame and not tell the full story. >> the latest from the streets of charlotte and the discussion happening across america of race and policing. >> referred to him as sir, do not raise your voice, do not talk back. >> then, three days until the first presidential debate, both siwo

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