tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC September 23, 2016 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT
today the wife of the map shn s and killed by police released her open video. we're live in charlotte, also a state of emergency declared by the governor. the video we're about to show is by keith scott's wife and widow. apartment complex to get her cell phone charger and when she came out the incident had begun. >> don't shoot him. don't shoot him. he has no weapon. he has no weapon. don't shoot him. >> drop the gun! drop the [ bleep ] gun! >> don't shoot him! don't shoot him!
he didn't do anything. >> drop the gun! drop the gun! >> he doesn't have a gun. he has a tbi. he's not going to do anything to you guys. he just took his medicine. yes, we are over here at 50 -- 9453 lexington court. these are the police officers that shot my husband and he better live. he better live because he didn't do nothing to them. that is part of the video obtained by nbc's gabe gutierrez today. one of the main points of contention in this case is whether or not keith scott was actually in possession of the gun and police have asserted though we don't know their statement according to police involved in this case was that the gun was recovered. we can't tell definitively from the video. we'll speak back here on the reporting and the chief of police has refused to release the videos saying he will no longer be making case updates because the case has been turned over to a state bureau investigations and also in the press conference he acknowledged the interest in this video evidence.
>> i know the expectation that video footage can be the panacea, and can tell you that is not quite the case. there are other factors that have to support and corroborate even what you might visually see. >> keith scott's family viewed the police videos yesterday and they made a statement through lawyer, it is impossible to discern what mr. scott was holding in his hands and his hands were by his side and he was walking back. there was a memorial held for justin carr the man shot during these related protests on wednesday. we begin with tremain lee. what are you seeing? >>. >> i'll tell you ar the release of the dramatic video earlier, we expected an emotional edge on the protest tonight. you certainly got that with many people who said it only heightened their concern that there may be some sort of cover-up and we don't have
evidence to suggest as much, but for folks on the ground who already don't trust the police the video further seeded that inclination, but again, tonight's protests expanded to 300 or 400 people, but it was peaceful the entire time. again, there were some ramped up emotions given the nature of that video when you hear mr. scott's wife saying don't shoot him, don't shoot him, it certainly added an edge, but it didn't translate into outrage or anger. for eight hours protesters marched around state. at one point they took up the i-277 highway and police in riot gear quickly overtook the highway and pushed protesters off of the bridge, not literally, but off an exit. since then it's been peaceful. here we are outside of the charlotte police department where it seems that the protest is breaking up. a few moments ago someone stood on the steps and said be safe, stay in pairs, get home safely,
but also stay vigilant, stay active and now you can see behind me, you still see a strong core group of people who have maintained their presence here on the steps of the charlotte police department. one thing that should be noted is that tonight, much like last night, the police have kind of stayed relatively low key, allowed marchers to have their way through the street. the police chief had said that the curfew between 12:00 and 6:00 a.m. will be in effect, but they're calling it something of a soft curfew. basically, if no one acts up and there's no violence police will allow protesters to ado what they've been doing all night, march, chant. >> from what you're seeing on the ground there isn't any particular different response with the video out today compared to the earlier evenings of protest? >> reporter: that's right. when you talk to, you know, an individual protester and you ask
them if they've seen the video. they have seen the video. it does anger them. i spoke to one woman, hearing scott's wife's pain, that could be my brother, my son. when you talk to individuals it certainly resonates with them, but you don't feel the widespread kind of movement among the crowd. they didn't ramp it up any more so than they did last night. again, it's been peaceful, but certainly when they talk to individuals, today was a big day, but then again, many of the folks here didn't trust the police department in the first place. they say something doesn't smell right period whether they saw the video or not and this just bolstered their claims. >> trymaine lee, thank you, as always for your reporting. the release of the video by mr. scott's wife raised questions about what can and what can't be seen and we turn to cal perry. we were in the newsroom when gabe gutierrez our colleague, first obtained this video from the family and we started
watching a rough cut and we went to work and i was looking at the key legal moments and you were looking at a breakdown and sometimes zooming in and breaking down what it is and what did you find? >> looking for answers and we as a society are so desperate for sw ares and we heard it from the chief. these are not the end all, be all answers. the video is 2:12 long. we first see these items on the ground at about 1:24. we can go ahead and put them up and we spot shadowed some of them and you see the items being flicked on the ground. these are glove sxtsz standard operating procedure, and they're putting on by the police officer with the greenish-brown pants and you will see the police officer in the red shirt and it's key this officer in the red shirt for a time line purpose you will see him bend over and pick up this glove. we keep going back to this officer with this red t-shirt and the black flack jacket and we do so because it helps us piece together the timeline.
we can put side by side now, this basically shot from the video we got today and from we had from our affiliate in charlotte a few days ago, that red circled item, we had a police source say that's the gun. allegedly that's the weapon. on the right side of the screen the video from today. it doesn't exist on the right, why does it exist on the left. these two are taken at very different times. on the left you have crime scene, police tape and you have the officer leaning over the body of keith scott. very different times and hard to tell, unfortunately, this does not give us an answer about the gun. what we do know from this video is that this poor woman shot this from a close distance. if you were to subscribe to the craziest conspiracy theories that are out there that police planted a gun on the ground that they did it not only with this woman filming, the wife and another video that has sort of emerged online from this hill sort of behind. what is clear about this video,
ari, and we talked about this all day, the use of cell phones now as almost insurance for an entire community that has a very different relationship with police than an entire segment of our community and we're seeing this over and over again. we're seeing this more this year than last year and we've had as many police videos come out this year as we did in all of last year and it's not even october. >> cal perry, thank you as always for your reporting. the naacp has called for the public release of these videos and they should be called for a release and said the questioning of the timing still remains up in the air. for more on this we turn to rodney sellers associate presbyterian seminary and a board member of the naacp. what are your thoughts after the video came out today. >> i think right now we have seen that there has been even more of the lack of clarity. the video complicates matters and we're not quite sure what's being dropped and we're not quite sure when the gun appears
on the videos, and i think we need to have some greater clarity. so the thing that we would demand more than any other point in time is that the videotapes that the police officer shot released as well. i think the more angles that we get on this, the more of an opportunity we'll have to know the truth, and this is a complex situation. whether or not there is a gun there before or after might have a great deal to do with the trust that the people have in the police going forward. so this is a great deal that's resting on what takes place and what can be seen in these videos. >> the state and independent inquiry that has taken over the case which is generally seen as a positive thing in places that do investigations this way because you don't have the local police investigating themselves, they put out a statement today saying they're going to move forward with this, but that the video as a matter of custody is still the property of the local police and they can release it or not. does that sound right to you? does that concern you? do you think that's more governmental passing of the buck? >> yes. >> actually, i think it's more
governmental passing of the buck, but more than that, it shows an inherent problem. these tapes belong to the people. we paid for them and i was part of the group that demanded that the police wear cameras originally and these are our tapes. we own them, not the state and we should be able to get access to them whenever we need to. in addition to this, turning this case over to the state bureau of investigation is wholly problematic and in part the state bureau of investigation has been taken into the hands of roy cooper and taken into the hands of the governor and someone who passed a bill that goes into effect on october 1st that says we will not be able to see this video unless we have a court order. in essence, the governor has been working against the rights and the will of the people and in this case, turning it over to the sbi might actually be handing it to the wrong hands, we would like to see the department of justice, a federal group investigate what takes place here and make sure that we have a group that truly is non-partisan, and non-involved
in this case investigate what's going on. >> and final question, reverend. at this point, according to a lot of our reports on the ground these are relatively ground and wholly peaceful protests tonight moving toward a curfew here. are these protests winding down at this point? >> well, i don't think that they're winding down. i think that they're taking different shape. people are talking about what do we do? how long do we stand in the streets in protest. we should a worship service this evening where we had several hundred people who gathered together in one instance. we had other worship areas and other activities going on in different places around the city, and i think people are starting to say now that we vented our anger and now that we talked about what the issues are, how do we begin to gain leverage on moving forward with them. how do we start to talk about what might the solutions be and how we can move toward a more productive level of discourse, so i don't think that we're seeing an end to the protest. i think we're seeing an evolution and a remanifestation
in different ways of this particular protest. >> reverend rodney sadler, thank you very much, and good luck to you this evening. when we come back, president obama's reaction to the unrest following these recent police-involved shootings. that's right after this. we thought fibers that help you stay regular caused unwanted gas. not good. then we switched to new mirafiber. only mirafiber supports regularity with dailycomfort fiber and is less likely to cause... unwanted gas. finally. try new mirafiber. from the makers of miralax.
seeing what's happened in tulsa or charlotte on television and perhaps are less familiar with not only the history of the african-american experience, but also how recent some of these challenges have been upon visiting the museum may step back and say i understand. i sympathize. i empathize. i can see why folks might feel angry, and i want to be part of the solution. yes, as opposed to resisting change. my hope is that black folks watching those same images on television and then seeing the
history representing this museum can say to themselves the struggles we're going through today are connected to the past and yet all that progress we've made tells me that i cannot and will not sink into despair because if we join hands and if we do things right, if we maintain our dignity, and we continue to appeal to the better angels of this nation progress will be made. pected. hurry in and lease the 2017 passat s
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all lives matter. the truth shall set you free. black lives matter. release the tapes. i'm begging you. please, release the truth. the truth shall set you free, and that's all i've got to say. >> that's a scene from an hour ago on the streets of charlotte tonight and our colleague here, chris hayes had a chance to speak with charlotte's mayor, jennifer meyers and the intensity of the protest surprised her. >> i'm surprised at the level of response. this does not feel like the charlotte that i grew up in. it does not feel like the city that i know has been a hospitable city to build trust and community relations. it's painful. it's very painful and again, i want to thank all of the folks that are trying to change the narrative here and trying to bring peace back to our city. we are a can-do city. we are a city that has overcome
some things in the past in a collaborative way and i am calling on people to do that again and to show the world. >> i am joined now by reverend peter wary and tamika lewis a charlotte uprising protester. >> reverend, your thoughts tonight and how all of this involves also working with the community that you've been doing, and where does it all go from here? >> well, i think first and foremost, ari, it has to begin with release of the videotapes. we've been calling for this since the chief's press conference on tuesday, and we continue to believe it's the best and first thing that must happen in order for progress to take place. i heard the mayor whom i love say that we want to get back to the charlotte we built and that we love where there's peace, but the reality is trust between the african-american community and the police has died the death of a thousand cuts, and so while
the protests may seem to have moderated a taste the fact is now people are going to move into their private spheres of influence and that death of trust will continue. police will be able to depend a lot less, i think, on cooperation and trust among citizens. >> tamika, beyond the tapes, what else are protesters calling for? >> we are also calling for the removal of the state of emergency and the national guard. we are asking along with the release of the tapes that there be a full and independent investigation on the case. we would also are calling for the demilitarization and the defunding and investigation of itself of the charlotte police department and a full repeal of hb-972 and reparations to be sent to the families affected of police injustice in charlotte and the state of north carolina. >> tamika, how did you become involved in this and how long
have you been doing these protests and what do you view as your role or the younger generation's role in concert or in contrast with the more organized african-american churches that have been doing this work? >> so i've been organizing in charlotte for the past three years. i localize here locally and across the state of north carolina as community members in the streets it is our job to keep folks safe and help their voices be amplified and maintain its narrative in the view of the media. >> how are the churches working with what we call the younger generation or pardon the term, but different folks who have been getting more involved in these issues? >> with profound respect and appreciation, frankly. every movement for justice in civil rights has always been led by youth every time, and so we are just elated to see them and to walk alongside them in concert with them, and not in front of them and not over them
and certainly not behind them, but on the lines with them. they've been on the streets and with prosters d protecting people and making peace and building conversation and the environment last night was much like boston common at lunchtime because of the work of these young people and collaboration with others. it's been a real spirit of cooperation which is why we are all chafed by the outside governmental influences which have insisted on this state of emergency and this militarization which we understand, i know, for example having lived a long time that the national guard was not the only solution to the problem of needed additional resources on the street. >> reverend peter wary and tamika lewis, thanks very much for joining us tonight. >> thank you. >> appreciate it. we will continue to monitor the ro tests in charlotte throughout
the hour and also one of donald trump's former opponents endorsing the nominee, you may have heard about it, and it was a shocker. more right after this quick break. i use what's already inside me to reach my goals. so i liked when my doctor told me that i may reach my blood sugar and a1c goals by activating what's within me with once-weekly trulicity. trulicity is not insulin. it helps activate my body to do what it's supposed to do release its own insulin.
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welcome back. donald trump and ted cruz began the republican primary fight as allies of a sort. cruz drafting basically a lot of trump's wind early on waiting and hoping the front-runner would eventually crash and burn and he could pick up that support. he had responses on sitter like the establishment's only hope
trump and me in a cage match. sorry to disappoint. #dealwithit. >> things change, you may remember and trump went at him hard on twitter about cruz's wife heidi and this meme unfairly comparing her looks to melania trump and pushed totally unfounded conspiracy theories that his dad had connections to lee harvey oswald and cruz would go on to decline to even tell his fellow republicans to back trump at the convention. >> i don't get angry often, but you mess with my wife, you mess with my kids that will do it every time. donald, you're a sniffling coward and leave heidi the hell alone. >> this man is a pathological liar and he combines it with being a narcissist. >> donald trump is a serial philanderer and he boasts about it. >> if you love our country and
love your children as much as i know that you do, stand and speak and vote your conscience and vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust to defend our freedom. >> i am not supporting people who attack my wife and attack my father. >> that pledge was not a blanket commitment, and if you go and slander and attack heidi that i'm going to come like a puppy dog and say thank you very much. >> and perhaps that is all now water under the bridge. today having overcome that loyalty to his wife and father, at least that part of the argument, he made, cruz went ahead and said he's supporting trump writing on facebook. if clinton wins we know with 100% she would deliver with left-wing promises with devastating results for our country.
my conscience tells me i must do whatever i can to stop that. >> after a lot of months of prayer and reflection that i've decided in november i intend to vote for donald trump. now i know a lot of people in this room like i have struggled with this. have struggled to know what's the right thing to do? what's the right decision and the honorable decision and i'll tell you, that's something all we can do is go to the lord in prayer, follow our conscience and try to make the best decisions we can. >> trump sounded pretty thrilled with all of this in a statement saying, quote, i am greatly honored by the endorsement of senator cruz. we have fought the battle and was a tough and brilliant opponent as you can no doubt recall trump hasn't always referred to cruz with such respect. >> lyin' ted, right? lyin' ted. >> you know, lyin' ted comes in
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patented fast dissolving formula. it starts to relieve sudden cravings fast. every great why needs a great how. hillary clinton today called for the release of that police video showing keith lamont scott's last moment and we must ensure justice and work to bridge divides. an aide said clinton was planning to travel to charlotte on sunday ahead of the debate and donald trump was also reportedly considering a visit some time last week and after the debate late today, jennifer roberts urged both candidates to delay those visits. >> we appreciate the support of the candidates. we appreciate that they're concerned about charlotte. at this point we do have very stretched resources for security and they are working around the clock. if there will be a way to delay
those visits in terms of giving us a chance to get our city back to order and more to a state of normalcy that would probably be ideal. so there you have it. the idea is they are welcome, but the city prefers a rain check and in response, they would not strain city resources and plans to go to charlotte one week from sunday and as for trump, he did blame clinton for the unrest that's inflicting our country. those peddling the narrative of cops is a racist force in our society and this is a narrative that is supported with a nod by my opponent. you see what she's saying and it's not good. shared directly and the responsibility for the unrest that is afflicting our country and hurting those who have really the very least. people that are having a hard time. >> joining me now, democratic
consultant team carney and senior political columnist at the washington examiner. good friday evening, everybody. tim, let me start with you, with the debate coming up, no one knows what the questions will be, but it seems >> the summer with he had that policing will be on the table. your thoughts on how that will go down? >> i think one of things that donald trump tapped into that most of us in the media and political elites around the country miss was that there are lots of concerns about law and order out there. and he went out and he tapped into that, and so that while we are following stories and i'm writing about, you know, the over militarization of police in ferguson, that is one side of the coin, and much of the country is thinking if this is going to weeken the police. >> what is going to weaken the police? >> so i was saying they
shouldn't have these tanks to the police, or if the police worrying about whether or not they are, you know, going to arrest the wrong guy, if they can't do stop afrisk all of thoe things we are seeing as the problems. for a lot people we think that law and order are crumbling. i think you will see trump and hillary take different sides on this reflecting very different views around the country. >> you are saying that you have written or discussed the idea that there is too much mill and that is the kind of rebuttal you have heard back. >> when i go around to trump rallies all around the country. it's not a problem that the police are armeld to the teeth. it's that they are too chained and restrained. >> we have seen that within the administration. it's a nonpartisan position. was putting out this idea of well, they are restrained by these videos. the real problem is too much individu
video and that affects how the cops do their job. he tussled with the president on that point. and video is something you can live with just like suspects live with, it tells a certain story. i wonder how this all plays into the debate. >> first of all, i find it very fascinating that people are concerned about police being suppressed in some way given the fact that crime is down in this country. so i think that there is something far more at play than just this notion that we are hamstringing the police or inhibiting their abilities to do their jobs. i think that to neglect the racial component that is involved in their concerns about police suppression, i think is a poor thing to do. i mean, i think what we have here is a situation where we have a community, the african-american community, which i can say personally i am african-american is deeply concerned about overpolicing. and i think the problem in the debate is that people believe that you can't be overpoliced
and under policed at the same time, when you actually can. so that is what is going to be a challenge for hillary clinton is to make that point in a concise way, in a nuance way during the debate at a time when you see donald trump using the division card, which he's used rather effectively, what he does is, and what he does rather well, and it's worked for his supporters, is that he says divisive things, and he point to the democrats and say, they are dividing the country. >> right. and says -- >> a long-standing tactic that has been highly effective for the republican party, and let is be clear, this tactic has not started with d >> hillary clinton is causing the negatively part. there is no evidence for that. tim, final thought. >> i will just say i talked to nypd, i talked to police around the country, a lot of them say they find the pressure to become less proactive. i talked to some real veteran
cops, the cops i grew up with in new york city and they said exactly that, that the problem isn't just that we are troo restrained or too sort of unleashed, the problem is that there is a prak dobreak down be the community and the police. and i don't think that president trump or president clinton has anywhere near the power to fix that breakdown. >> you are speaking to the fact that no president may be able to deal with something that is so rooted in the communities. a bigger question we are going to resolve here on this friday night, but tim and tara, thank you for joining us. up ahea we are doing to give you more of an update on what is going on. it looks to be very peaceful protests, very limited at this point in the streets of charlotte. stay with our special live coverage. is it a caregiver determined to take care of her own? or is it a lifetime of work that blazes the path to your passions?
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they believe one suspect is at large. this is a developing story. and we want to give you an update on it. msnbc cal perry. >> a small town, population 9,000 people, you are looking here at live pictures of the mall. we are getting it out of the affiliate out of seattle. local, state and now we are finding out that the atf is also responding to this. as you said the head line right now the shooter is still at large. ems crews have been deployed to this mall. we understand from a public affairs officer of the local police there are wounded individuals inside that mall. very typical mall, department stores on either side. we understand that the shooter entered through one of those department stores and opened fire. at this point the shooter is still at large. one of the big questions here, the i-5 highway that runs from burlington to seattle, atlas the shooter was headed towards that highway. >> that is brand new information, we'll be keeping an
eye on that story. thank you as always for your reporting. stay with us, our special live coverage here continues after a short break. don't let dust and allergens get between you and life's beautiful moments. flonase gives you more complete allergy relief. most allergy pills only control one inflammatory substance. flonase controls 6.
you are watching msnbc, we are monday otering the demon striegss in charlotte that are over the death of keith scott. they are chanting release the tapes. police pushed back on those demands to keep the dash cam video public. no official tape should be disclosed before the state investigation is over. during a press conference this afternoon separately, government pat mcrory was wonkeridering ift would clear up what happened. he backed up the chief of police that was not giving up the tapes and he said this. >> i hope up don't take this in the wrong vein, but i've watched football game last week on tv, and saw four different replays, and each showed something different. you know, camera angles, and
everything mean a lot, and there are a lot of other circumstances involved in other situations. and it's not just the camera that's involved in a, in an incident. there are many other factors involved. and it would be inappropriate for me to discuss those other factors. >> former federal pros executer paul butler joins me now. what did you think of that. >> every time i listen to it, it strikes me as incredible, that an elected leader is saying he's comparing a football game to a situation in which a man has been killed by officer of the state, concerned citizens, african-american, white, latino are marching in the streets trying to figure out what happened. all they want is the videotape. all they want is some transparency, when armed agents of the state are kill people in their name, they want to know what happened and why. the response is to bring in the national guard, to watch over the marriott hotel and the ritz
carlton hotel. all of that signified by this man talking about a football game. >> yeah. it was such an out of touch kind of remark, and you could say that maybe he had some inkling of that because we have the transcript, he says i hope you don't take this in the wrong vein, it's one of those telling sort of remarks, and the rest of the press conference, which we were watching here in the newsroom earlier today, was he never said, mr. scott's name, he never spoke really to the anguish of the family. what do you think, you know, we've talked so much about the rules and the law, and the protests, but what do you think about the humanity of it, where you see people gunned down. today we saw the video, i said this earlier, because it was so disturbing, that video starts with a wife shooting the video, worried about her husband, and it ends with a widow. what does it say about the humanity that some of these
politicians, i would say the governor included, don't seem -- even if it might be legally justified and you can walk us through why that's the case, they don't seem to stop and deal with the humanity of the loss of life. >> that is why this civil rights movement has to be called black lives matter because a lot of ople just don't get that. we have a man who the police have killed, and not rendering him first aid, that's not the first thing they do, the first thing they do is put his dieing body in handcuffs. again, that is inhumane. that not only offends basic concepts of human dignity, you wouldn't treat a dog like that. and in fact african-americans get treated like that all the time because in certain fundamental ways, we are not seen as equal. we are no the scene as fully human. >> the other thing i want to ask you that we've discussed in our reporting on this is the video doesn't show other camera the actual four shots, which is a crucial part of this investigation. but it does show the moment
before, 51 seconds about before, and there seems to be on the part of the police, whether it was deliberate or not, whether it spun out of control, but there seems to be what look the to be like increasing an escalation tactics rather than waiting. >> we have to talk about police training to prevent more videos like this, when african-american women narrate the destruction of their partners. if you get a call as a cop that somebody has a gun, you don't roll up on that person, knowingly expose yourself to a threat, and then use that as an excuse to take the person out. you communicate to the person but you cover yourself. we want our officers to be safe. that's how they keep themselves safe. we also know that a large number of the people who the police deal with are in some kind of mental health crisis, or have some kind of. >> right. >> mental disabilities, and that was true about mr. scott. there are ways to deal with that so that we don't have situations
like this. >> well, and, yeah, you say that there is a case about policing, this is a case in some people's eyes about race, this is also potentially based on what we are learning a case about someone with a serious brain trauma, according to at least to the family, and whether or not police knew that, should have known, should have been trained for it. former prosecutor paul butler. we'll be right back. [ "on the road again," by willie nelson ] ♪ on the road again [ rear alert sounds ] [ music stops ] ♪ just can't wait to get on the road again ♪ [ front assist sounds ] [ music stops ]
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when a moment turns romantic, why pause to take a pill? or stop to find a bathroom? cialis for daily use is approved to treat both erectile dysfunction and the urinary symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently, day or night. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas for pulmonary hypertension, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any symptoms of an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis and a $200 savings card. the killing of keith lamont scott has prompted a renewed
focus on how careful african-americans feel they must be with any interactions with police. yesterday in the wake of the shooting, steve harvey a come median went before an audience to recount what he has told his sons to do whenever they are pulled over. >> hands on the wheel, 10 and 2. when he approaches your car, put your wrists on top of the wheel. spread all of your fingers out, and don't do nothing. if the man asks you to let the window down show him your finger, and get that window down. get that hand back up on there, all fingers spread apart, 10 and 2, and put your wrist on top of the steering wheel. instruct him of every single thing you have to do. if you've got to reach in the back, the glove compartment, and you do it with the other hand. so, sir, i'm going to reach in here, i'm going to use my left hand. and i'm doing to open -- you let the glove compartment fall open.
let it fall open, let them put their light in it, do whatever they want to do, give them the information. always speak politely, refer to him as sir, do not raise your voice. do not talk back. submit to every single thing he tells you. >> joining me now is phillip goff, professor in policing. karla shetis, and former chicago police officer demetri roberts, founder of seven star consulting. when you look at steve harvey narrate that, people will hear different things. some people might hear that and say, right, you are supposed to submit and say, sir, and be respectful. but he's getting at something more than that, isn't he? >> he is getting at something more than that. when i saw that, you know, i'm used to steve harvey an celebrity family feud. >> ding ding ding, yeah. >> there is nothing funny about that, because literally telling your children this is a life and death situation, and if you
don't submit, you might die. it's a terrifying thing. i have no children of my own, i collect god children, i've gotten of them, when i look into their eyes and they are asking me, uncle phil, why is this happening? what steve harvey is trying to explain is not just what he's teaching them but what else they are learning. the research we do on adolescence, when a they are learning is encounters with the state are a terrifying thing that could end your life, so you must get right into a script to save it. and that script is submission, is that really american? >> it's the police are the most direct contact between the citizen and the state. and so you are teaching young people that they can be feared just for who they are. and they think they may have agency and changing the way they dress or how they look, but it's their body that is the problem. and what can we tell them about fixing that? there is no way to do that and that is an extra burden that black and brown children have to carry every day. >> and yet demetri, how do you
square that view and that record evidence, which exists in many cities across the country, with what are increasingly ranks in leadership, including chicago where you have you been, and cases like we've seen in baltimore and this case where the, a shooting officer may have been a minority as well. >> well, we have a real problem with the law enforcement culture in this country. and as we see, culture doesn't have a color. as we see, black police officer killing a black man or a white woman killing a black man, the culture and the cultural divide has to be addressed and soon. my hope is we can see programs that focus on bridging that cultural divide through diversity, inclusion and immersion. those are training workshops and conversations around building better cultural awareness in both our law enforcement
agencies, as well as in our community. because part of the reason you see folks protesting in north carolina is because they are not aware of the police policies. they have not had a seat at the table. they don't have a voice. and they don't even understand what is going on. so how do we fix this? we come up with sensible solutions, like diversity, inclusion and immersion, and we take citizens and we put them in front of police officers before they get into the community, and allow them to gain the right level of cultural awareness that they need before they get out and start policing. >> i mean, phillip, to that point, one of the concerns seems to be as you hear sometimes about racial profiling, ds has mentioned it in certain context, part ever the argument that we are hearing from some of the folks in these community is racial profiling works on multiple levels, there is profiling against minorities more likely to be suspects. and then there is profiling for other members of society who are seen more likely to be victims.
there are people who responded to this video today who said, gosh, i don't know how she even had the wherewithal to stay that far back. they would have rushed the police, and other people responded and said if you are from that community you know rushing the police means you will be the second one shot. that is that life experience. noo i think part of what -- >> part of what we are learning, it's a complex dance when you are learning how to behave ain what is a nonthreatening way. i want to go back to what the kids are learning. when i'm doing my research with adolescents, they are being told by community that they have to, especially these young boys, that they have to be men, they have to stand up, god forbid they be growing up in households that are headed by mothers with the father not around, that means you've got to be a man. they are being told at school you have to be a man. and then when they encounter law enforcement, it's law enforcement tactics to say, now i'm in control and you are no the. you are no the a man, you are a boy. that is a confusing message for
kidsn that situation. >> but even if you are a boy, you are considered suspicious, you are considered criminal, you are criminalized just for the state of being a black boy. and so the problem is that we have to figure out, not only changing cultures, but changing systems. where we are not just criminalizing an entire population of people, just for being who they are, and it's happening across different contexts, and i would disagree that people don't know. people know. people feel like police don't care, how do we change the system so people feel like they are being protected and served and not policed and under protected. >> we have -- go ahead chlt. >> we have to take a service first mentality. unfortunately the law en -- law enforcement community is taught to enforce and not is serve. we have to turn the corner and
take a service first men nationality. the side of every police car says serve and protect. >> that is a fitting point to pause on. pause and continue as the conversation will continue. demetri, karla, phillip, thank you for story. but up next, the rachel maddow show. on the last data president was called public law number 107 and it was defined in the statute as a national memorial commission. this law that coolidge signed his last day in office was to build a building that would be a memorial and a tribute, quote, to the negro's contributions to the achieve ams of america. 1929. calvin coolidge signed that law, and that law authorized the creation of this national memorial and tribute. it also provided exactly zero dollars to do that with. and so the idea of a national memorial, a national tribute, a physical commemoration in washington, d.c., of the