tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC September 24, 2016 5:00am-6:01am PDT
good saturday morning to you. i am ayman mohyeldin. breaking news out of washington state. five people dead after a man armed with a rifle opened fire in a mall north of seattle. the gunman remains at large at this hour. and gadi, where does the search stand now? >> reporter: security is extremely tight, but so far no
sign of the gunman that walked behind the macy's behind me and killed five people, four women and one man. we understand it may have happened in the makeup section of the macy's, and it's a busy mall and take a listen to witnesses as they describe what happened inside. >> i am about to walk into the macy's to go into the rest room, and i see two young girls and an older man run outside, and you know, i was kind of curious on why they just ran, and out of nowhere, the girl said gun and i turned around and i heard a shot and it sounded like a clap, and then the next thing you know, another shot, and bang, bang, bang, and i heard seven or eight shots. at that point i dropped what i had in ran.
>> the shooter is seen what happens to be carrying a long gun, and at this point it's unclear whether or not those victims were specifically targeted. witnesses have described hearing the gunman yelling a women's name possibly before that shooting, and we understand the gunman fled while the mall was going into the lockdown and he headed to the interstate and that's the last time anybody saw him. investigators have been combing that area throughout the night. the fbi is sending agents to assist with the investigation. they have said they have nothing -- no credible information to lead them to believe that there may be additional attacks out in the community, but right now a community on edge as a very dangerous gunman is still outstanding. >> let me ask you quickly, are
there any leads as to who this guy might be, and did he leave his gun behind or take it with him? >> we believe he took the gun with him and we believe there are leads being followed up by investigators right now. they are planning on releasing the information, including the identities of the victims and they may have a good idea of who this guy is, just take into consideration this is a very, very small town. those identifications have not been made public and we may learn more later this morning. >> gadi schwartz live there, and thank you. the video we are about to show is you disturbing, while
you will hear the gunshots, you will not see anybody shot. >> don't shoot him. >> new cell phone videos obtained by nbc news for the first time shows the moments before the 43-year-old was fatally shot. >> don't shoot him. he has no weapon. he has no weapon. don't shoot him. don't shoot him. don't shoot him. he didn't do anything. >> scott's wife pleasing to officers as police yell this order 12 times. >> drop the gun! drop the gun! >> he doesn't have a gun. he has a tbi. he's not going to do anything to you guys, just took his medicine. >> the family's lawyer says scott suffered a brain injury in a motorcycle accident last year, and he asked her husband to get out of the car. >> keith, don't let them break the windows.
come out of the car. >> keith, don't do it. keith, get out of the car. keith, don't you do it! >> a man that appears to be scott is standing outside the vehicle, and moments later -- keith, don't you do it! >> that was a portion of the report. we do not know what happened before this video, though the family's video went outside to get her cell phone charger and when she came out the incident had started. ron, i know you have been gauging the reaction to the video in the community and what can you tell us in terms of how it's being played out. >> i think that video ramps up calls for the police to release their video, and everybody wants to know what the police officers were on scene were seeing when they made the life and death decision to open up on scott.
after this video was released, the mayor of charlotte released a statement saying she would urge the state bureau of investigation which has taken over the investigation, urge them to release the tapes to the public shortly after that, and sbi said we are not the official custodian with the tapes, and they believe to the police department, almost as if to say it's not our call, it's yours. and they have discussions about releasing the tape. it seems like the decision to release the tapes rests here in and not in raleigh. the investigators have interviewed a lot, and they are saying to the city it's up to you to release the tapes. people calling for the release
of the tapes every night here, secretary clinton and elsewhere are asking for the tapes to be released, and what is interesting, the family got to see the tapes along with their attorneys and the police officers -- with the government, i should say, and both say the shooting is ambiguous. they want to see themselves. >> yeah, release the tapes has been the daily rallying cry. >> joining me now, msnbc contributor, and debby heinz, former trial attorney and prosecutor in baltimore. if i can begin with you, debbie, from a legal standpoint. how much did you learn from the video and is there too much ambiguity to be used in a legal setting? >> we don't really see on the
video what happened to mr. scott, but what we do know, his wife is leading, as they are shotting, he doesn't have a gun, he is trying to convey there's no eminent danger, and she is also pleading with her husband, but it's not definitive, and that's what the police officer said about the video that they have, it's not definitive, and it doesn't appear to be -- we don't see everything, obviously, there has been any immediate fear that the police are in danger. >> i think you hear 12 times saying drop the gun, drop the gun. in the video, it doesn't give us any visual confirmation that he had a gun, and does the fact that the police on the tape -- on the tape, the fact they are saying drop the gun, does that give any legal baring whatsoever?
>> no, because even the police chief said on the video that so far the public and the media has not been allowed to see, it does not definitively show on the video they are not showing that he had a gun. that's more one of the reasons we need to see what is on the video, and his wife is saying there was not a gun, and more importantly why we should see the video, and we saw once before in charleston, south carolina, where the police officers said walter scott had a gun and when we saw the video taken by a bystander, there was not a gun he had and he was running away. that's crucial. i don't think what the officers are say really accounts to much of anything right now. >> if you are looking at it from the community stand skpoeupbt they are asking for the tapes, what is your personal takeaway, did it have an emotional and
substantial impact, and do you think this will calm the situation down or add more emotion to it? >> i think that -- i don't think the release of mrs. scott's video will quell the cause for the release of the dashcam of this particular incident. i am not sure whether or not it escalates things. there are lots of the cases in recent memory that shape how we are responding to the videos and particular incident, and in chicago the delay in the release of the mcdonald tape really showed the chicago police department may have been trying to hide something. the public is looking at something and not understanding why there is not full transparency, and that's not just the public of charlotte but the national public. why are we spending all of this time parsing these different grainy photos and trying to use
other videos to piece together exactly what happened when we know there's a huge piece of information that folks who we pay to protect and serve has in their hands. it's beyond urgent for them to release the tapes and we have to deal with the consequences from that point. obviously if you watch mrs.'s scott's tape and you hear her voice, and you hear her sense of urgency, and that contributes to our sense to have more information to have the full picture. there have been too many of these cases, not just this week but in recent memory, that shapes the public's opinion, and i think full discloser and transparency is the only way to go. >> trust has become a major victim in all of this between the law enforcement and community. debbie, even though we have not seen the actual video, which we
understand has body cam and dashcam videos, and how difficult is it to prosecute a officer in a case like this? >> we have to go to getting charges files if its appropriate, and once the charges are file it's hard to get a conviction, and the problem in charlotte is the jury ended up with a hung jury, because if the police officer can say i was in fear for my own life, i was in eminent fear, whether or not the person had a gun, i thought he had a gun that he was pointing at me, and that creates a reasonable doubt and a lot of these cases. that's why video is so terribly important to see wnhat the vid actually shows, and once the video is definitive, then it's much easier to get a conviction, but it's based on what the
subjective officers' opinions are about his or her life being in danger. you have the wife's testimony, and she is obviously a very integral part of what is going on, and it's a uphill climb in most of the cases where it's not a definitive video of what happened. >> let me play you the sound bite from president obama. he addressed this issue is an interview. take a listen. >> if you have repeated instances in which the perception is at least this might not have been handled the same way were it not for the element of race, even if it's unconscience, i think it's important for all of us to say we want to get this right. >> you and debbie know the long list of names that continues to grow year by year, and i am curious to get your thoughts that we have tulsa and charlotte. are there any answers to get this right going forward?
>> i think one of the steps that we have got to take is folks -- people don't understand the seriousness of this issue. just look at the data and look at what we know on biases, and just think about what the attorney just said here, that the perception of the law enforcement officers, what the cases normally hinge on. if the law enforcement officer perceived their life is in danger or perceive a monster coming towards them, that could mean that person loses their life. nine times out of ten, this is happening to folks of color and poor forks. we understand how bias works in those split-second decisions. we need to figure out what are the policy remedies here. obviously there are folks that are calling for a complete overhaul in reforming police,
and there is going to be much more accountability on the other end of this. we don't see enough indictments and trials coming out of these cases to detour or challenge law enforcement to think about their perceptions and biases. >> james, you are talking about the issue of racial biases. you have black police men shooting black men and i am curious to get your opinion about how that is affecting this situation going forward, is it more about racial biases or police --
>> well, through the ways in which folks are indoctrinated, so it's perfectly possible for a black person to have a bias against black people, to have stereotypical perceptions of black people, and it's logical that a black police officer trained in an american institute could see black folks as criminals, and you see local law enforcement using images of black folks as targets, and it the law enforcement can indoctrinate it against them. >> thank you both for your insights this morning. >> thank you. two days before the first presidential debate, a new poll gives donald trump a lead over donald trump. how are the candidates preparing for the showdown and where does each one have an edge on the othe stay with us.
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you shall seeing a live picture of the african-american museum. hillary clinton is among the dignitaries alongside president obama and former president, george w. bush. chelsea clinton will visit pennsylvania, while elizabeth warren travels. >> donald trump suggested that ted cruz's dad was involved in the jfk assassination, it's so outrageously false and as far as i know donald trump has not retracted it or apologized for
it, and so if somebody said that about my dad, they would never have me as a supporter for anything. >> it's worth noting, ted cruz's father was at a tea party where ted cruz explained his decision. >> after a lot of months of praying and reflecting, i have decided i will vote for donald trump. now, i know a lot of people in this room, like i, struggle with this. all we can do is go to the lord in prayer and follow our conscience and try to make the best decisions we can. >> trump will campaign in virginia today. we have live reports from the campaign trail, and jacob rascon is covering the trump campaign and kasie hunt is following the clinton campaign for us.
and let me begin with you jacob, if i can, and get your intake on trump's reaction to ted cruz's endorsement. and donald trump said at one point he would not accept cruz's support. >> reporter: he said he didn't want it or need it and would not accept it and now he says he is greatly honored. this is something the trump campaign is thrilled to have. they wanted to unify as much as possible the republican party. this is a stunning reversal, of course, and you heard cruz talk about conscience. he made it an issue of conscience the entire time, stung everybody when during his convention speech he didn't endorse, and he instead said vote your conscience, and he is still talking about conscience but in a different way. he says his conscience cannot allow hillary clinton to become president and must do everything
he can to stop her. he said his decision was first that he pledged to do so last year. last year, that he must do everything he can to stop hillary clinton. he talked about number one in terms of policy, the supreme court, and he must do everything he can to make sure the supreme court is a conservative supreme court, and just a stunning reversal and we have a full page of names they have called one another, and now cruz said he and his family has forgiven trump and their focus is on beating hillary clinton. >> yeah, and left his supporters scratching their heads. and let's go over to kasie hunt, and talk to us about the preparations under way. is debate fever setting in? >> reporter: we are just a few
minutes from you, ayman, but a whole world of weather away, and they are preparing for the public event of their life times. of course, donald trump is a reality tv star and has been for sometime. this audience could reach as many as 95 million americans as it is expected to break records, and both of them are spending the weekend getting ready for it. you know, they are doing it -- you will be surprised to learn n. polar opposite wise, just like they are polar opposite candidates. hillary clinton studying as she always does. we know her to be a candidate that has debated nearly 40 times before in the races she has run,
and her aides are not worried she won't be able to talk about what she knows, and they are worried about how she might handle an attack or jive from donald trump, and they are wondering how she could get under his skin and let hget a ge of the other trump, and donald trump on the family golf course, and he's looking at tape of hillary clinton in her previous debate performances, but not doing a stand-in sessions that you traditionally would in a case like this. >> thanks tporp update. we will be watching on monday closely for sure.
the opening ceremony begins in a few hours of the african-american museum. and the museum is located next to the washington monument on the national mall and we will bring alive report from there in just a few minutes. like how hard it's gonna fall. (engine revs) the things it does to your parade. we've got a saying about rain, too: when it rains... it roars. the all-wheel-drive charger. domestic. not domesticated. ...cleasee ya!ake off. when you're living with diabetes. steady is exciting. oh this is living baby! only glucerna has carbsteady, to help minimize blood sugar spikes. and try new glucerna hunger smart to help you feel full. ♪
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don't just eat. mangia! bertolli welcome back, every one. i ap thousands have flown in around the country to be some of the first to get an inside look, and tracie potts is in washington with a preview. >> reporter: you are going to see president obama's as part of the ceremony and you will see thousands of people in the area around the museum right next to the washington monument, behind me, they have trumbo johns set up and several thousands have
been invited and others are expected to crowd around that area to see the museum. to some of the people we have been talking to over the last few days, it means a lot to bring this part of their history into american history. listen. >> i think it's amazing that there is now a national, you know, museum, celebrating african-american history and culture, especially the fact that it's in a city that historically has been, you know, a majority of african-americans. it's fantastic. >> a long-time coming and it's excited to be here for the opening and we live up the street and have watched it being built over the last couple of years and it's super exciting. >> reporter: it was pretty cool watching the building go up. it has an interesting architecture. she's right, a long time coming. 13 years, and took more than half a million dollars, $440
million to get to the day. lots of people have already been inside the museum and doing preview events over the last several days. this weekend, three days of festival events surrounding the opening, but getting inside may be a bit of a challenge if you did not get one of the online tickets, and they are backed up weeks, and unless you try it same-day, and they have same-day tickets that might get you a chance to get in, and pretty popular here. >> thank you very much for that insight. ted cruz endorses donald trump. will that really help trump? that's next. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business...
composure while you are on the convention floor and it's raining a sea of balloons, and all i remember was to keep them going so i could still talk. woah! you're not taking these. hey, hey, hey! you're not taking those. woah, woah! you're not taking that. come with me. you're not taking that. you're not taking that. you're not taking that. mom, i'm taking the subaru. don't be late. even when we're not there to keep them safe, our subaru outback will be. (vo) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. to politics now. the former presidential candidate announcing his support of donald trump late yesterday. meanwhile it's two days until the first presidential debate,
and it will focus on three areas, securing america and america's direction and achieving prosperity. joining me now, our guests and good to have both of you this morning. how big of a surprise was cruz's sudden endorsement and what was the reaction? you know the political word better than i do, and did you see it coming or was it a surprise even to you? >> as it turns out, cruz had been in contact with donald trump for three weeks and it was a meeting with mike pence that led to the endorsement. so it does not come as a surprise to the campaign, but certainly it was a shock to a lot of the steadfast conservatives who really admired cruz for not putting party over principle. and in july he encouraged voters to vote their conscience and withheld the endorsement of
donald trump. >> is there any conventional wisdom on whether this will help trump secure more support come election day? >> i talked to people that said yes it would help donald trump with the far right conservatives and i don't buy that, and you know all along he has been saying that just play an ad, play a clip briefly of ted cruz going after donald trump over comments over his wife and father, and then show a little snippet of the endorsement. looks like its pure politics. that being said, i don't think the endorsement itself will help ted cruz supporters go to donald trump but i think they are voting for donald trump anyway because it's a vote against hillary clinton because of the ideology. >> let's talk about the debate. what we are getting is donald trump is casually preparing, and hillary clinton is hitting the
books. how would you characterize that? >> one said donald trump is not cramming head head with microchips and binders, but he has no plans to go in there and wing his first debate performance, and he is meeting with advisers over the weekend. he's doing his homework but not pulling all nighters, and clinton is just poring over information about her opponent and consulting with psychology experts to determine the best ways to get under his skin, and she is studying up to make sure she delivers a polished performance and is able to handle donald trump if he comes off the hinges. >> are there lower expectations
for trump than for secretary clinton, and is it going to be a high bar for both of them once those 90 minutes get under way? >> yeah, a completely high bar for both of them. donald trump has to be preparing more than what he is saying, 75% of likely voters said they will tune in on monday and it's a very different dynamic. during the primary debates, they will say cram in what you are thinking about policy into 90-minute snippets. let's face it, millions will turn on the debate to see what are the personal attacks donald trump will hurl on hillary clinton, and how personal is it going to get. donald trump can win this thing if he comes out by buying sincere and humble because people want to see the heart behind the fire. >> we know three debate topics,
and is there anything you are hearing the trump campaign would like to emphasize in those, gabby? >> yeah, after the terrorists attacks last weekend in new york, new jeey, minnesota, donald trump can be expected to emphasize national security and fitting that into the topic of securing america, and i imagine he will bring up hillary clinton's negotiations with the iranian nuclear deal and will bring up the syrian refugee program, and her support for admitting more refugees into the u.s., and what he likes to call extreme vetting proposals that he made a central component of his campaign. >> and he is doing better in some polls on the issue of countering terrorism.
same question to you about the clinton camp, does her camp into this with a certain degree of confidence? >> to the same point gabby just said, hillary clinton wants to go on the national security foreign policy and that's where she can tout her experience, and she can make donald trump look temperamental unfit to be president, and especially with what he is rattling off on twitter, that's what she wants to make come out, and she needs to tout her policy experience, but at the same point she needs to up her presentation, and she runs the risk of looking unrelatable and donald trump could come out looking like the popular kid in school. she needs to definitely make him rattle skppl get him on feet and make his defensive, and that could hurt him and that's what the campaign is regretting the next morning. >> tell us what is the headline
tuesday morning? gabby, go ahead? >> oh, gosh, i think donald trump will surprise us, and that's going to be the biggest headline the following morning. >> i think the headline will be donald trump comes out and being sincere and humble and she will poke and proudnd he will come out and say something. you do not want to miss the historic debate. meanwhile, donald trump's muslim ban turkish president shares his thoughts on that, and the fight against isis in my interview with him. that's ahead. and the challenge of moderating the debate. on the road again ♪ [ front assist sounds ] [ music stops ]
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today. msnbc celebrating the anniversary of the global citizen. many special guests will be performing in new york central park. the goals for the organization include ending extreme poverty by 2030. it all begins this afternoon at 3:00 eastern right here on msnbc. you don't want to miss that, folks. in turkey that country's future is at a crossroads and trying to manage and pay for an ongoing refugee crisis and overcome an attempted coup this summer. in my wide-ranging interview, i had a chance to speak to the president about the arrest of journalist in turkey, and if donald trump became president would he call on the turkey citizens not to come to the u.s.
>> i don't think this is remotely possible, because politics is a marathon and it's a long process. many things can be said throughout the rallies before elections, and things will turn out to be very different post elections. no political figure, no politician in this world is confined to their own local grounds. this is something we need to know, and this is something that we need to be aware. the world is a great place and in this greatness, we have to be very aware of what we do and what we say, and i think once life brings you to a certain point you have to be even more careful. >> who would have a better relationship with turkey when they become president, donald trump or hillary clinton? who do you think would be better for turkey? >> well, you are entrapping me and i am not going to fall into that trap.
the best thing for me is to see the way of the people being served in the united states, and the choice of the american people will be the right choice. >> there was a lot of talk this week about a potential cease-fire that was signed or agreed to within the last two weeks is that is the cease-fire in syria dead? >> well, unfortunately it is a stillborn baby, a period of 48 hours was initiated, and then a week was discussed if the first 48 hours was a successful one, but it never happened. the succession of hostilities was interrupted. >> there's growing concern, the freedom of religions and media and civil liberties are being set back and curtailed and what do you think to the criticism that there's a crackdown unfolding in turkey against
institutions like the press? >> well, you are a member of a media organization, and it will be beneficial for you to start research on these allegations, on these criticisms and the source of their criticisms in order to identify which media outlets we are talking about, and if these media outlets are supporting armed terrorists organizations, it will be a very different reality. do you think a media organization is allowed to -- do you think if somebody is seized bearing guns, do you think he could be just let go, and if he is looting an atm, and do you think we can just release him because he is a journalist.
>> do you feel the world is safer in the past year president obama has been the president of the united states and on the global stage? >> the world compared to eight years ago or even before then is not very secure, is not more secure. that's something we need to see. i am saying this for my region, per se. the region that i am surded by is experiencing very profound turmoil and challenges and my country is fighting terrorism domestically and internationally. >> the president went on to say he does not blame president obama for all the problems in the middle east but a failure across the 65 different nations dedicated to defeating terrorism. digging deeper. why it's so important to find where that new york terror suspect built his bombs. that's next. ♪
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where the explosives were made and authorities are trying to contact those that knew the suspect, rahami. and our guest is the former assistant director of the fbi. good to have you with us again. you said in the past it's important for law enforcement to find out where the bombs were made. why is this so critical in the investigation? >> in the course of this investigation, law enforcement has done a tremendous job in collecting forensic evidence at the scene of both bombings and identify the subject and bring him into custody but there's still a long amount of investigation to go here. the place where these bombs were made is going to contain a tremendous amount of evidence. if law enforcement is able to get there, it really is a wealth of intelligence. they will be able to identify potentially how those things were constricted, where the
components were made and they may be able to identify others involved and find additional forensic evidence. that location is going to be just a bonanza of law enforcement. people think these people have been arrested , and there's a lt of investigation to go and a lot of intelligence, and they can use any evidence they collect at the bomb site in their future indictment and court proceedings. >> i spent a big part of this week out in front of the family home, a relatively small home and supposedly a lot of people lived in the house. how likely is it that ahmad khan rahami worked alone, and how could anybody close to him in the house not know what he was up to when he was doing things like lighting incendiary material in the backyard. >> i think they are looking for
multiple actors and making sure there were not more co-conspiracies that could pose a danger to citizens, and as they continue their investigation, again, at the bomb factory, looking at additional information that others might be involved, and in terms of him lighting off incendiary devices in his yard, that should raise a red flag. >> what is it people can do to prevent things like this? >> people have been looking for some of the fighters who had been trained in the middle east, come into the united states. as we know the playbook out of
isis and al qaeda is changing the way they do business s. to tell people to fight where they stand. law enforcement does not have the resources to totally cover this, and the citizens, the community, coworkers, family members, they are the eyes and ears of law enforcement because they have to be able to identify anomalous behavior, and looking for signs of threats, people who are aspiring to commit violence, and if they don't see that intel law enforcement, a lot of things will go forward. >> and the video surfaced where two guys left the case and left the pressure cook, and what do you make of the two guys that the police have not been able to find as witnesses to the bombing? >> typically with the bomb like that, you need a electrical charge, something, and that's why the cell phones are there, and in terms of the guys who may have found it, i think law enforcement and the fbi are
looking for the ability to obtain that bag, and there might be additional evidence there, fingerprints and dna, and that sort of thing and even documentation, and that's important. another outstanding fact. early on, still, a lot more intelligence going forward. >> they want people if they see something to say something. we're keeping watch on a manhunt near seattle for a person that open fire in seattle last night and killed five people. people have pictures of the suspect and we have a live report next, so stay with us. ...clear for take off.
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