tv Morning Joe MSNBC October 3, 2016 3:00am-6:01am PDT
ataeng voter registration event in that state. trump's running mate mike pence will attend a rally in virginia. that does it for us on it f monday. "morning joe" starts right now. >> this man is clearly unfit to be commander in chief. >> wrong. >> he is a bully. >> shut up. >> he started the birther movement. >> you did. >> he says climate change is a hoax invented by china. it's pronounced jina. >> he hasn't released his tax returns which means he's either not that rich. >> wrong. >> not that charitable. >> wrong. >> or not paid taxes in thhis life. >> warmer. >> amazing. great writing. >> i'm going to have to go with the somersault. >> it was a good somersault.
harold ford, jr., how are you doing? >> good. good morning. >> university of michigan. go blue. they looked good this weekend. >> we got to keep at it. we're not alabama. we're trying. we're alabama of the north. we'll take it. >> the engine that could. you think you can. you think you can. red sox made it into the playoffs. the indians. giants. we mourn for claire mccaskill. how about the metropolitans making it in? very exciting. and your chicago cubs, chicago. 102 wins this year. >> best team in baseball. >> unbelievable. quick question before we dive into all the crazy stuff that went on this weekend. >> you need to be on seven days a week is what i think. >> there was so much. let me ask something. something i don't understand.
so all throughout december, january, february, march, april, when it didn't really matter, media outlets have 30 polls a day. there were polls every single day. >> we can't get one now. >> and this is the biggest debate ever. this debate is going to change things forever. so we're going to be watching. nobody has done a poll. >> we're in a drought. >> let me ask you, mark, because if i was a conspiracy theorist, i would think they had taken polls and they didn't like the trend lines. why would you not take a poll -- why wouldn't cnnbc, abc, cbs. "the washington post" did a poll on likability. we know they're all hated. you don't have to waste my sunday morning telling me that everybody hates these two characters. >> there are some poll numbers coming. >> why haven't they done them this past week?
it's stupid. it's insanity. they spend millions and millions of dollars and we still have no idea -- >> what is the answer? >> there is no good answer. we have no idea how americans really reacted to the debate. why would that be? >> it has to do with the fluke of scheduling and budgets. >> that's -- >> there's some coming. >> whoever schedules and budgets should be fired because fox news is the only network that has done a poll post-debate. okay, listen. this is what we're going to do. we're going to -- get your calendars out. everybody get your calendars out. we're going to do a poll on march 12th, 14th, 16th, 19th, 1 21st, 22nd. we'll run out of money at some point but we don't run out of money until the first debate and then we'll wait a month and -- what's up? that was my pet peeve for the weekend.
how was your weekend. >> it is great. >> did you see the tennessee/georgia game. >> tennessee is coming back. >> did you see the game? first of all, tennessee won and then georgia had won and ten seconds left georgia penalty on the kickoff and josh dobbins threw one deep. >> 150 football games on the weekend. >> there really are. i know everybody is really ticked off about donald trump not paying taxes for, like, 78 years. whatever. >> i'm bummed about the tweet storm. >> i'm going to say what i'm more bummed about -- joe scarborough, you like rich people. no. it's kind of like, i'm not offended by mitt romney paying 14% taxes. i'm not offended by barack obama paying 19% taxes. i'm noted o offended by donald p not paying taxes for 15 years. paul ryan, 20% tax rate.
i pay a 55% tax rate so i'm a sucker, right? >> i share your suckerdom. >> i need a failing casino or whatever barack obama and mitt romney have. they pay 14 and 20% and paul ryan pays 20%. the thing is, my feeling is -- i think most americans are this way. if you follow the law, you follow the law. what i'm offended by is a system that allows people like donald trump to fly around on jumbo jets and live in the most opulate places on planet earth and have the best golf courses and not pay taxes. am i supposed to be mad at donald trump for that or am i supposed to be mad at government and congress for that? it's a scam. it's like hedge funders that make billions of dollars and are offended if someone comes along saying they should pay more than 14% taxes.
that to me seems to be the real scam. people are mad at me for saying this. most americans are, like, pay taxes that you're legally required to pay and we're good. >> with donald trump, if he would say what you said and said i figured out a way to take advantage of the code. i paid no taxes. i took a loss. i'm speculating. i don't know if "the new york times" story is true. if they're true, he should say that. >> he said all of that. >> he won't show us why he's such an expert in this. >> i said on "meet the press" yesterday the "times" story was hyped. great journalism. glad they did it. important to get as much information about his taxes as possible. great story. story is premised on saying he could have paid zero taxes but premised every year for the last 18 years what he made in the first year and i'm sure he made more. >> i'm wondering if you're donald trump and your stick is
strength. i'm stronger than everybody. i'm going to pound everybody. they're suckers. i'll make the biggest deal. is the press, the liberal press, are they focusing on him too much not paying taxes legally, legally, when they should be focusing on him losing a billion dollars. seriously. so seriously, you're going to do for america what you did for -- hey, thanks but no thanks. we'll go with the life-long bureaucrat. that seems to be what supporters would be more offended by. >> i think you're at the rub and where we're at another fork in the road. media will talk probably for ten days about how he paid no taxes. voters are probably to the degree that people on the fence are struggling with these candidates, they're probably more upset that he called miss universe woman fat than they are about any part of the tax -- >> what about his speech the other night? my god. he accuses hillary of the most
outrageous slanderous things. >> the worst moment as a candidate was physical mockery of a disabled person. now he's mocked hillary clinton where we know she was sick with pneumonia. press will talk for a week. people are worried about other stuff. >> the press is going to talk about them not paying taxes when, again, i think the voters that would not vote for trump because of this story would be because he lost a billion dollars in a year. wait a second. this guy is going to do for us what he's done for himself. thanks but no thanks. that's the only tax record we have of him. then you can go down all of the other stuff. you go to speeches where he's mocking hillary clinton's pneumonia and having a terrible moment when he makes an assumption about hillary clinton's personal life and her personal morality out of absolute left field. i think that's, again, if
something happened this weekend to reinforce that donald trump is not fit to be president for people who don't believe he's fit to be president, it was the speech and not the tax issue, i think. what about you? >> i agree with you on that. i still think that beyond the taxes and the billion dollar loss or billion dollars in of course, whatever it is. the temperament issue is still a driving issue for voters. i think for those voters strongly for or against trump, that's dispositive. they moved on. they know what will give them their support or take the support away. but for those other voters out there that trump are still trying to convince, many of them republicans by the way -- >> and women. >> and women. that temperament argument as displayed against this weekend is going to be a driver for them
for the next 40 less days of this campaign. >> it is. i'm going to ask both of you quickly on the tax issue i brought up earlier. we have three republicans here. this is a world record for msnbc. and, well, any network, actually other than fox. michael steele, i'll start with you. do you agree with me or not that the real outrage here on this tax story is that you've got guys that can live like donald trump paying zero percent in taxes and hedge funders pay 14% in taxes. for me to say as small government conservative that warren buffett is right. if you make a billion dollars you should at least pay 30% in taxes of year if your secretary is paying 28% in taxes a year? >> as they say, don't hate the player, hate the game. if you have the ability to take advantage of -- >> i understand that.
i'm talking about what the game should be? >> absolutely they should be changed. no doubt about that. when you set aside in the tax code an ability to sort of hide investment income or treat investment income differently from regular income when all you get is investment income, yeah. those types of -- >> nicole, somebody works their ass off all year and pay 28% in taxes all year. somebody else comes into the year worth $3 billion and figures out how to be worth $5 billion a year should they pay 14% as americans? >> it's galling to the public if they can get their brain around these massive sums of money. it's why occupy wall street had legs. it's why elizabeth warren's message about income inequality will resonate with not just the
far left but parts of our base too. >> you look at donald trump's tax policy and it's more of the same. >> i thought that trump surrogates were completely over the top yesterday in saying this is an example of his genius. if it were so, why not release taxes in his opening speech. this is squarely his brand. i figured out how to use it. >> let's show clips with giuliani and chris christie call him a genius and then mark halperin will respond to that. >> what's your response to this story? >> my response is he's a genius. absolute genius. i rather have a genius that understands the tax code that wants to reform it. >> no one has shown more genius in their way to maneuver around the tax code and genius of donald trump has been to make sure that he follows the law. >> the man is a genius. he knows how to operate the tax code for the benefit of the
people he's serving. >> it was very interesting i thought yesterday in the giuliani interview with jake tapper. i have never seen anybody bring chains to the interview but jake tapper did. did you guys see that? >> rough stuff. >> jake has had a great cycle. >> in that case, as some would say, everybody was a little overboard. i don't know it thrusting it at him -- >> it works. the problem is not hiring a great accountant and taking deductions. the real estate lobby gives donations to politicians and gets favorable tax laws. >> the system is rigged. >> the system is rigged because of special interest. >> it's like hedge funders.
they rigged the system so they can make billions of dollars and pay 14% in taxes. >> there's no indication -- >> while i pay 55% in taxes. >> there's no evidence that donald trump has a plan to reduce the interest of special interests. he's not proposed -- >> his tax plan is, like, it's just the same thing over the past 30 years. give the rich more. >> except for hedge funders. he wants to change that. >> how much do you think that's going to happen, please. seriously. anybody? i'll bet you a pickup truck. if there are any reforms, if donald trump is president of the united states and we have the same congress. everybody agree? >> there won't be. >> none. >> it's what people are pissed off. and this is, i think, harold, the danger of having donald trump if you get past the foreign policy, you've got a guy that is not going to have the
where with all to sit down with paul ryan and mitch mcconnell and everybody else and democrats who get a lot of money from hedge funders, too, and say do not even think we're going to pass a bill until you reform the tax code to make sure people that make billions of dollars a year pay more than 14% in taxes other that donald trump can fly around in a jumbo jet for 30 years and pay zero percent taxes for 15 of those years. >> i think it's difficult for an average family, working man, working woman in the country, to understand how he has his names emblazened on buildings and if he's taken advantage of these deduction, the people paying it are every day working people. >> you don't fault trump for having aggressive accountants, do you? >> at the end of the day as much as christie and giuliani say
he's a genius, he's a genius exploiting every day working people. >> everybody you work with does. >> no, they don't. majority of people i work with pay the same rate. i pay the rate you pay. >> your bosses do. >> no, they don't. i don't work at a hedge fund. my point is this, this is about trump. >> my point is that what donald trump is doing -- i think this is -- i don't mean to interrupt you. i'm obviously way off here as far as -- i think the problem is that we have the system that allows the richest of the rich to do what donald trump has done. >> that's why he is where he is. >> you ask the top real estate people and top hedge funders, he hasn't paid taxes in years. good for him. what i'm saying is nobody is shocked going, my god, he took advantage of every legal tax
loophole he could. nobody is shocked on wall street about that. they say he would be a sucker if he didn't. >> not everybody is saying that. if he's done this, he should share it and we should understand how he did it and constructive for the rest of the country ton understand how he'l change the tax code. i haven't heard him lay out anything he would change other than to say i'm a genius and smart not to pay taxes. it you get up every day and you don't benefit from investment income, it's difficult for you to understand how a guy that wants to be president has paid no taxes. we understand that. i'm saying it is difficult for connect these dots. i blame him. i'm not going to let him off the hook because he's taken advantage of the system. you and michael and nicole are right. he's probably filollowed the rules. i don't know. >> again, nobody at this table, i'm sure, and, michael, nobody would fault for taking every
deduction he can take. >> no am i. i don't know that for fact. this is all speculation. >> if the "times" story is right, nobody faults him for that. again, because i know people get confused sometimes at home because they're eating cheetos for breakfast and you should not put whole milk over your cheetos, people might be confused. i think it's gross. it's the system that we have. >> i don't mean to suggest -- >> it's the system that his entire candidacy is animated by. his entire reason for winning was that he was running against a rigged system that he had exploited his entire career. i remember mitt romney started alluding to what might be a whopper if his tax returnsver came out in the heat of the republican primary. he hinted at this. i don't know if it was rumored or suspected. i remember at the time the reason that this is not as
damaging to him as a normal politician is that he's running as a scoundrel and a guy that has worked the system. >> i agree with that. at the end of the day why do we think if the rules were written to favor the average worker that they wouldn't likewise take advantage of those rules? that's the whole crux of what we're talking about here. those rules aren't written so that they get some benefit as well. written to their disadvantage and to those that have the means. >> our system is so screwed up. you have 45, maybe 45% of americans who don't pay any income tax at all. none at all. then you've got the people at the very top that pay absolutely no taxes at all. and then you have a family that works hard and maybe a small business owner that maybe they make $250,000 a year, sending four kids off to college, if they live in connecticut at least, they're paying 55% of
their income to state, local and on national levels. people are getting screwed. the middle class is getting screwed. unfortunately i don't think donald trump is a guy that's going to go in and reform it. he could. maybe we'll be shocked. >> there are three problems. one, he must release his tax returns for the last ten years at least. he must. it's inappropriate to run for president and not. >> he's not going to. we've had this conversation. >> two, there are years in which he's paid no taxes. we know that. we don't know how many. he must speak to -- i don't like government spends its money. tens of millions of americans pay taxes even though they don't like it. he needs to address failure to serve in the military, pay taxes, how does he feel about that? third thing, no one is suggesting he's broken the law. until we see his tax returns, we don't know if accountants were overaggressive in exploiting the tax law. we don't know.
>> well said. >> okay. kim kardashian is robbed at gunpoint in paris by people dressed as police. >> she's okay. >> you said 45% of americans some don't pay taxes. there are a lot of people at the very low end. i don't know if anybody at this table who would trade with that person. there may be people who would trade at the top end. low end is people earning between 20,000 and 45,000 a year. it's that part where he says he'll exempt that people from paying taxes. we have to be careful. i don't know of anybody that would want to trade -- >> i'm not saying i want to
trade with anybody. i'm just making a point that we have a tax system that is really, really screwed up where you have half of americans not paying income tax. almost half of americans not paying income tax and then people that run the world paying 14%. while secretaries pay 28% and small business owners that bust their life their entire life, 50% of their monday confiscated by governments like connecticut's that are extraordinarily inefficient that they cannot -- one state at random, if you go to get your driver's license you're in line for 2 1/2 hours. >> power stays out for a week. >> if wind blows 15 miles an hour, lights are out for at least ten days. >> if you're lucky. >> and we're paying for that? i'm sorry. i get a lot better service in florida when i was paying zero
percent income tax to the state government. thousand times better. everybody is, like, poor florida. bull. bull. you have a category 4. the lights are on the next day. you want your driver's license. you go in. i would like to renew my driver's license. what's your name? my name is joe. >> who told you to move to a state named after nutmeg. >> it's a lovely state otherwise. >> i love the state. i am going to be there the rest of my life i would prefer not to pay 55% taxes the rest of my life. i can handle it. if you're a plumber working there your entire life and you have three kids and you want one them to go to uconn and another bu and another one somewhere else, i'm good. that plumber can't.
>> now, when we come back, donald trump was doing it to try to distract from "the new york times" story. he had this crazy speech. some would say a meltdown. i think it was all planned. all in a day's work. he said some really crazy things. we'll talk about that. also, "the new york times" reporter david barsow will be here and robert costa has new details on chris christie's role in trump's debate prep and stewa stuart stevens. first, here's bill karins. you're tracking a major storm in the caribbean that looks bad for jamaica. did this thing jump from category 1 to category 5 in, li, no time. >> in about 24 hours. one of the top five most quickly
intensifying hurricane. this is what we're going to see. we won't see too much wind damage. not direct hit of the eye. we'll see a lot of flooding and possibly historic flooding in areas of haiti. category 4 storm. winds at 130 miles per hour. forecast takes it over the next 24 to 48 hours for eastern cuba. maybe landfall in haiti on the southeast corner. most of it will head up toward the winds toward cuba. haiti, watch out. could get three feet of rain. here's the forecast path from the hurricane center. all eyes are on what happens once it gets to the bahamas. cone of uncertainty rakes the coast of florida including north carolina, south carolina. close to the united states as category 2 to 3 hurricane thursday into friday and most computer models take it in that general path. dangerously close to areas of eastern north carolina as we go throughout friday into saturday. if you're from florida through
the southeast coast, we'll have to update this forecast throughout the week and give you more specifics as we pinpoint who is going to get the worst effects from a powerful hurricane matthew. a shot of d.c. sunshine today through the northeast and mid-atlantic today. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.
she has been a disaster. here's a woman that is supposed to fight all of these different things, and she can't make it 15 feet to her car. give me a break. give me a break. give me a break! she's home resting right now. she's getting ready for her next speech which is going to be about 15 minutes in two or three days. i have a great temperament. i have in my opinion -- it's like one of my strongest things. i have a winning temperament. now, she's got bad temperament. she could be crazy. she could actually be crazy.
hillary clinton's only loyalty is to her financial contributors and to herself. i don't even think she's loyal to bill you want to know the truth. and really, folks, really, why should she be, right? why should she be? >> go. respond. mocking her health scare. talking about his temperament and then moving onto speculating about her personal life in a way that is so over the top. i've never seen anything like this. >> this was the fork in the road. >> unless it was about me. i'm talking about another candidate. i've never seen one candidate say this about another candidate. >> i talked about the fork in the road where the media is going to talk about taxes for ten days in the media around
tables like this. this is the stuff that at the gut level people are rejecting. this is the stuff that if i were running against him, i would want to make sure everybody saw. these are the traits that sort of reinforce her core message which is that he's temperamentally unfit to be president and you watch that, what's the other side? he is? >> they had to make a choice about what would be the case they make? they picked that he would not have the temperament and proper behavior to be president. he has spent from the debate night through saturday night and on his twitter account every moment giving them more and more material on this very point. >> he went straight from this universe which he got behind. he stopped on friday, i guess it was, and then we have this. >> and i asked one of his advisers over the weekend. i said it seems -- you talk about a choice i'm for him because i'm not for her.
he has a choice. tweet and lose. smash the phone with a hammer and maybe stay in that. >> he's made that choice. the thing is, you look at what he did the week after the debate. listen, i think the debate would have been a wash at the end of the day because he was strong the first 20, 30 minutes. if we ever get a poll again before we all die -- >> how about that for a standard. he made it through 20 minutes. the other 70 sucked. he would have survived it unchanged. >> you know why he would have survived it because people watched the first 20 to 30 minutes and said okay and moved on. >> if he said it was my first debate, i think i did okay, but i'll do better next time. >> a war all week with miss universe. he's freaked out about this. i'm sure he's freaked out about this tax story when in fact it's what he did in response to the tax story that's damaging to the most college educated people and
women and suburbanites he needs on his side. >> that speech was saturday night. most people haven't seen that speech or even the excerpts we ju showed. it's confounding to his supporters and you see another wave of republicans freaking out that he's behaving exactly the way -- it's as if robby mook calls him up saying this is what we need to do to reinforce the notion you don't have the tem r temperament to be president. >> people were pleading with trump to stop attacking the khan family. same thing happened this past week with miss universe. everybody, including the family, was saying stop attacking this woman. and so he stops attacking her on friday, i guess. i haven't seen anything since then. and then saturday he's talking
about hillary clinton's sex life suggesting that she has been unfaithful. i mean seriously, coming from him, it's remarkable. i always said let he who is without sin cast the first stone. he should not be throwing stones at glass houses nor should a lot of his surrogates and i would suggest nor should any of us and yet they're doing it. he's doing it in the middle of a political speech along with mocking her for passing out. >> but that's been the protocol for donald trump from the very beginning. >> we're in october. the election is a month from now. it's not going to ever end, is it? >> it's not going to end. i don't know why folks seem to expect that it will. this is the m.o. this is the way it's going to be. donald trump is the one who decides how much fuel to put on the fire and when ultimately to
put the fire out. he'll put the fire out when he's ready to start another one. that's what we saw this week. from machado story to where we are now, he decided this story wouldn't last the entire week and then on friday he extinguished it on and friday he lit a new one. we're here now on monday talking about that new fire. this is his m.o. keeps him in the news and in the cycle. >> why? he knows and his people know and his people tell him every day and his family tells him every day he needs to lay off of this if he wants to win suburban voters. if he wants to win. he goes around talking about winning pennsylvania. ain't going to happen if you offend half of the swing voters in the suburbs of philadelphia, we he does every day with these sort of remarks. >> we know the kind of voters he needs to win over. people uncomfortable with her record of being in the government for very long time and of having all of these
things that have sort of stuck to her. scandals and questions about how forthcoming she is. we've talked to these voters on the fence. he is giving them reason to land on her and he's giving them reason to say, you know what? i was willing to give him a chance, but he freaks me out. i don't want that guy in charge of our military. i don't want that guy in charge of our foreign policy. i thought i might want him in charge of our economy. i don't know. he's freaking people out. >> is that really the case though? the mysterious polls we haven't seen yet, this is still -- >> i was in north carolina and talked to swing voters and registered republicans. they are uncomfortable with him. he's giving them more examples of why they're uncomfortable than reasons to feel reassured. >> you know what i found is it's interesting and we were talking about this on friday. trump, if he would just get out
of his own way, is everybody's default. like they're his default position. he has one scandal. one explosion. people run away from him. they come back. they slowly but surely come back. he has the khan problem. they run away. comes back. >> they come back. >> you know why? in this year of change, mark, we may not get it but trump is the default position for swing voters. but he's not getting out of the way. he's not letting them come to him too be their default. >> with a better performance and a little luck, he would be a 265 electoral votes but his staff set a low bar for him. he acts disciplined for three hours and they get excited and say, look, he can do it. >> what are they supposed to do? >> smash the phone.
>> they do. do you think steve bannon is running around and kellyanne conway is running around, great, he questioned hillary clinton -- they're not. >> he was on prompter saturday night. there was a teleprompter. >> my gosh. >> it took him 25 minutes to get to it. >> they give him a prompter story. they want him to stay on prompter. a "washington post" story where he tried to get through 25 minutes and just kept going off. it was unbelievable. >> tragedy is in some ways the country embraces this. and if numbers are as close as they are -- >> we have no numbers. you know why we have no new numbers? >> we'll get 42 million votes. >> the numbers are coming.
>> before this show is on again, i predict you'll have polling. >> we have fox news poll. where is one? >> up five in that one. >> up five in that one. that's one poll. great. bloomberg, there would be -- you guys would put a poll out. >> just you wait. >> we have been waiting. it's been over a week. coming up, mika's most televised polling places. she's concerned about what happened to kim kardashian in a paris hotel. we'll be back. >> for a while i thought he turned a corner. this last week has been frankly a lost week and a week which has hurt him and shaken his own supporters. and you can't tweet at 3:00 in the morning. period. there's no excuse ever. not if you're going to be president of the united states. you work at ge?
yeah, i do. you guys are working on some pretty big stuff ov tre, right? like a new language for crazy-big, world-changing machines. well, not me specifically. i work on the industrial side. so i build the world-changing machines. i get it. you can't talk because it's super high-level. no, i actually do build the machines. blink if what you're doing involves encrypted data transfer. wait, what? wowwww... wow? what wow? there is no wow. i'm one unlucky guy.
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conservative that worked for dan burton in the house of representatives. he's been investigating the clinton's personal lives for a quarter century. kellyanne conway. bannon around this stuff for a long time. in the world of the clintons there is reportable things and gossip. >> so you're saying that trump is planning to come out with some revelation? >> i think he's tempted to. he said it at the debate. he said he would say something at the debate and then decided not to. >> between that and wikileaks thing, there's a possibility that october surprise of the tax return is going to be an appetizer on both sides. >> all right. and also, in the news, my gosh, columbia. i cannot believe the people rejected an opportunity to make
peace in a 50-year civil war. they voted down the peace agreement, which is pretty shocking. we'll talk about that when we get somebody on set. with gary johnson maybe. i bet actually he doesn't know where aleppo is, i bet he knows where colombia is. i bet he's purchased products from colombia. donald trump, 900 million new reasons to release his tax returns? but his 90 billi$90 billion dol '90s. we'll find out if the document is legal. "morning joe" coming back. [quack!] medicare only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. so think about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company.
york times." >> he doesn't speak for the table. >> he does not. >> happy to explain. >> we apologize. >> i used the word speculation also. i won't let mark hang. >> you go with the first question since you were launching the trump-like insults. >> now it's a great story. >> he didn't pay federal taxes. might not have paid federal taxes for 18 years. he made more money in subsequent years than in the first years. we don't know based on documents whether he paid federal taxes or not. >> it's a totally fair question. i can tell you that when i wrote the lead and i use that phrase could have i didn't use it lightly. it's not a phrase that normally shows up in the lead of a "new york times" story. we felt it was appropriate in this case. the first is, when you're
showing a loss of $916 million. for the ordinary person out there, they have no idea what the implication of that number might actually be. the implication -- one of the implications is that you can under these wonderful provisions in the irs tax code, you can write that loss off against another $916 million of income going 15 years forward and three years back. and it's important for people, i think, who don't -- who are not experts on the tax code and aren't in the line of work that you're in, and maybe aren't as familiar with the stuff as you might be, for them to see immediately and instantly here is actually the most important implication that flows from this number. the other thing is we've been studying his business affairs for months.
we look carefully at the question of is it possible that in 1996 he made a billion dollars. we don't see any evidence of anything like that at all. in fact, if you look at the tax return that we published, what you see is income coming in that 10 to $15 million range. what this $916 million loss means is that he could have avoided paying taxes on up to $50 million a year for this 18-year period. based on everything that we know. based on everything we've done, we have a hard time seeing how he could have been getting consistently to that $50 million range per year. so that's the reason. >> tell the story, you were saying in the break that you can't tell the whole story. tell us everything you can tell us about how you came to possess
these documents. >> the miracle of this story is that the person who sent them to us happened to send them to one of the reporters in the newsroom who is obsessive about checking her mailbox. a great reporter. i'll be the first to confess, i could go weeks without checking my mailbox. i shutter to think that i could have come to my mailbox the day after election day and found this. >> what do you know from the envelope and from the return address? >> first of all, anyone can write whatever they want on the return address. what we have said is what was written on the return address indicated that it came from trump tower. there's more to this story. i'm not going to go into it right now because we're still
chasing. >> david, thank you for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. we apologize for mark halperin. >> we have to do that a lot. all right. fascinating story. coming up, by almost all accounts, hillary clinton won the first presidential debate. so did mitt romney four years ago. we'll talk to romney's chief strategy about the head to head dynamics heading into the second showdown and asking mark halperin why he's going to the vice presidential debate on tuesday in the middle of virginia when we return. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪
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>> at the top of the hour, chris christie all but destroyed marco rubio in the republican primary debates. tore him to shreds. can he help donald trump do the same to hillary clinton? "the washington post" robert costa has some inside reporting on the governor's role in prepping the republican nominee. we'll talk about that and trump's wild, crazy weekend when "morning joe" returns. ritis with humira. humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. it's proven to help relieve pain, stop further joint damage, and clear skin in many adults. humira is the number #1 prescribed biologic for psoriatic arthritis.
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>> not a response more of a request. can america vote right now? it's not just trickle down economics. it's i don't know if i had to call it something off the old dome with no prep whatsoever, i guess i would call it trumped up trickle down economics. >> right off the top of the old dome right there. have you finished fighting "the new york times" reporter? >> it's a great story but one flaw. >> you think they oversold it? >> there was no reason to lead with something that could have happened. i don't think. great story. congratulations to them. open the mail and did a lot of good work after they got the mail. >> even that is a knock. you can't give them credit. >> great story. great work. great hard work by a lot of talented reporters. >> there's no doubt the man didn't pay taxes for the last 18 years and may have suffered
other losses so he may have never paid federal taxes. we jump on 45% of americans earning $30,000 a year. their tax returns don't look like that. >> great story. >> i salute "the new york times." it is my newspaper. it's one of the greatest. as i say all the time to my friends at the "times," i buy two every day. one to read. one to burn in the backyard every day. >> it's a great story. >> opening the mail thing, there's a little -- opened the mail and did some good reporting. >> that's how great stories can start. >> welcome back to "morning joe." mika has the morning off. thank god she's not here to see this. monday, october 3rd. we have managing editor of bloomberg politics and co-host of "with all due respect" mark
halperin and also msnbc political analyst and professor at the university of michigan school of -- go blue. what a weekend this weekend. >> big win. >> coach is crazy. >> got to keep it going. >> coach is crazy. >>assionate. >> he's crazy. former democratic congressman harold ford jr. and michael steele and joining the conversation, msnbc political analyst and political reporter for "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst, robert costa. all right. so, robert, you're the trump expert here. what the hell is going on? what are they doing? first beauty queens, the family and people close to trump get him off beauty queen and he starts mocking hillary for having pneumonia and suggesting that she had a spate of affairs. >> they're trying to turn a corner. >> wait. wait.
wait. who is trying to -- first of all, who is trying to turn the corner? >> the people around trump. >> okay. so they're trying to get trump to turn the corner? >> i haven't spoken to trump himself. i do know according to several people in trump's circle they went to new jersey on sunday for all afternoon and tried to tell the candidate it's imperative that you get ready for the st. louis town hall debate on october 9th. they had chris christie, the new jersey governor walk through how to do town halls and share some tactics and have a rapid fire. not a mock debate but intense debate session. rudy giuliani was there as well. >> is donald going to listen? he thinks i went up against this chris christie and obliterated him. what can he teach me? isn't that how donald trump
thinks? >> perhaps. one notable thing about this sunday session is that the group was smaller. you've had a sprawling crowd around trump at previous debate prep sessions especially before the first debate. generals, family members, friends. this past one on sunday, just a few advisers, giuliani, christie. >> okay. so let's go to the news. we have two things going on. we had "the new york times" story and then trump's eruption after "the new york times" story. let's talk about "the new york times" story first. my take last hour was people that want to support trump, they don't care that he hasn't paid taxes in 15 years because that's him knowing how to play the system. but they might care about the fact that he lost a trillion dollars in one year. do you think this is a story that swing voters care about? >> the loss is more of a story than trump evading taxes. going around to states doing
focus groups -- >> that's one poll i never did. i never did. >> he's coming to america. but it's been surprising in focus groups how little impact all of hillary clinton's attacks on trump's taxes had post-debate. i thought it was a withering assault. he's smart. >> he said that all along. i know how to game the system. you need to have somebody that knows how to fix the system that i game d, right? >> he's been forthright about it. it is interesting that what robert just described, the debate prep that they're doing, he still is not putting in the time and discipline doing rapid fire. that's just, like, practicing by doing a sprint and not making him go through sustained 90 minutes of rough and tumble. we're probably not going to see a change in performance.
>> harold, you have run like me. you are what you are. i don't know how you get ready for debates. i had my way of getting ready for debates. i had my way of getting ready for election day. and i did it. over and over. just like, you go in and if you're a batter and you have twitches and tweets. getting ready for this show there are things that work for me getting ready and things that don't work getting ready for this show. >> the thing that he's done throughout the campaign, the attacks and the unconventional if not all together rude andsen understand what it takes to move around a room. town hall session is different. chris christie to his credit in that primary, he did take marco rubio down aggressively and effectively. he has the ability to -- >> he's not going to change.
he's not going to be prepping. he's not going to sit there going the rebels in colombia. >> i don't believe this. by definition and no one can teach him and prep sessions are useless. what did you find that people care about? what is in focus groups that may stick against him or could hurt him between now and election day? >> temperament. trump's temperament is the number one thing that has voters on the fence particularly with concern to foreign policy. it's not necessarily about foreign policy, it's about his conduct and how he could set off nuclear war or world war iii that's something voters on the fence are concerned about. >> that's a legitimate concern. >> for me, seriously, i don't want book of eli stuff. >> this is what they're teaching him to do. stand at the town hall debate. you ask me a question about how
you're trying to -- >> mr. trump, what do you think of -- >> i said, joe, tell me more about your family and challenges you face. joe, training him to use the name. walk over to them. >> i live in connecticut. i pay 55% in taxes. >> that's all he needs to learn. >> he's not going to learn that. michael steele -- >> he won't do that. he'll use every questioner's name. he will. >> you have run as well. it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. donald trump is proving and he proved again saturday night, he is what he is, who he is, i don't think he's ever going to change. he has one month to change. why change now? >> he's not changing. this is it. this is how it plays itself out. they're going to continue rapid fire for this and subsequent debates because that's what he wants them to do. and he will absorb it the way he wants. he said in one interview a while ago he's a guy that takes stuff
that comes at him. he's in the moment. he doesn't plan and prep for that. this idea of sting down and actually sort of methodically figuring out, okay, this is what i have to do here and tactically go there, that's not him. he's in the moment. now, the concern that people have with this town hall debate with a live audience that he's in contact with, does that then trigger some other response in him that allows him to go on a rift that takes the thing off the rail. you can't control for that. >> you mean kind of like this. >> here's a woman that has given barack obama such bad advice that i guarantee you if he had the choice to do all over again, go back years, he would have never picked her as secretary of state. she's been a disaster. everything she's done has been bad. it's ended in huge financial loss and death.
i mean death on both sides. death on both sides. she has been a disaster. here's a woman that's supposed to fight all of these different things and she can't make it 15 feet to her car. give me a break. give me a break. give me a break? she's home resting right now that will be in 15 minutes in two or three days. i have a great temperament. i have in my opinion, it's one of my strongest things. i have a winning temperament. she's got bad temperament. she could actually be crazy. she should be in prison. let me tell you. she should be in prison.
hillary clinton's only loyalty is to her financial contributors and to herself. i don't think she's loyal to bill if you want to know the truth. and really, folks, why should she be, right? why should she be? >> is it done? we're done? >> ends part one. >> was he struggling that much for content that he really had to go there? did he feel like the audience was flagging and he had to throw out a bomb and start accusing hillary clinton of being unfaithful? >> he had been throwing out bombs all night. it's -- bob costa, did you get any response from the trump team following the speech in pennsylvania? >> trump is becoming more trump.
>> more trump. >> i'm going to tweet that. >> what we're seeing now is the inner circle somewhat compressing. roger ailes, for example, was not -- a lot of the veteran republicans were not there. reince priebus was there. what i hear about what they're doing with debate prep that's interesting, it's not so much a policy deep dive. trump does have briefing books but he's not diving into subject by subject. it's really about tactics. giuliani told me yesterday that they're going over past moments like when george h.w. bush looked at his watch in 1982. they're guiding trump saying stage presence matter. your gestures matter. you have to make human contact. they feel good about that. we'll see what happens. >> i was asking nicole this question. i'm curious about the polling group that you're with and the people that you've been talking to. that speech right there, you talked about him going after her
personal life. it raises a thousand questions about temperament. women seem at least through the last six months to be most impacted in the general election for that sort of explosion. and suburban voters, college educated voters, the people that donald trump has to start winning to win this election. >> he needs college educated women in particular right now. those kind of remarks don't help him at all to get those women off of the fence to start thinking this is someone who can be controlled enough to conduct international affairs as commander in chief. he really does not do himself favors when he goes off script like that. >> you're from mississippi, riot? >> yes. >> you have conservative friends and family members down there. nicole says at this point her parents aren't talking politics with her. my brother and i talk about his beautiful granddaughter. we don't talk a lot about politics. are you finding among your friends and family members in
mississippi if not a support for trump, just the very strong belief that certainly i'm finding with a lot of my friends that they cannot and they will not ever vote for hillary clinton. that means they're going to vote for that guy. >> they're going to vote for trump is a vote against hillary clinton. that's why the only thing that trump could do is if he keeps being more outrageous and gives them an absolute reason they can't do it because he seems so unstable. he really is only hurting himself right now. my mother watched the debate. she said she just couldn't take it anymore and cut it off. she can't stand hillary clinton and won't vote for her but at the same time there's no way she could vote for donald trump. >> seems to me, michael steele i hear republicans saying i won't vote for hillary clinton in a million years. i won't vote top line but vote for republicans straight down. >> what voters have been doing for the last 30 to 35 days is
very much into that space where they say i can't pull the trigger for either of these guys. i'm going to protect my senate seat. i'm going to vote for the down ballot candidates and that's good for the party in a sense that what was once a problem in losing the senate now looks like a good hold for them because of that separating the senate candidate or congressional candidate from donald trump and hillary clinton. >> you look at the senate races and it really is surprising what we're saying three months ago. just not come t fruition. you have -- it's over in ohio for the most part. portman is going to win. we thought john mccain was caught in a terrible sort of vice between having to be far enough right in the primary and then you go back to -- no. he's running away with it. the guy is up by 16 points. mccain is going to win.
ron johnson is back within single digits. still an underdog. >> kelly aott is in it. toomey is tied. what are voters out there -- it seems voters are going far more republican than they were suspected to. >> a couple things. incumbent senator who knows that they're going to have a tough race who raises money and avoids scandal and works hard with their constituents can survive a bad top of the ticket. not a blowout. trump has positioned himself not to be blown out. if trump loses state by four points, they probably would be fine. the senate race may help trump because you have seen turnout operations there coordinated with the republican national committee. almost every state that will decide the presidential race, almost every one has a competitive senate race or contested senate race and it's true that if people go vote for
portman or vote for clinton or leave the top blank, that will hurt trump. a lot of people are out there working to elect republicans. the clinton campaign made a choice over the summer. they didn't say rob portman is as bad as donald trump. they said trump is different. trump is not like a normal republican. that has normalized the notion for a lot of independents and moderate republicans. >> is that the biggest thing litt politically? >> all of these senators knew they were up in a presidential year in purple or blue states. all raised a ton of money and worked hard with their constituents. senate races -- >> they haven't gone far right. >> gun control, rob portman on drug treatment, kelly aott on a range of issues. >> would you have thought senate candidates would pull trump up opposed to trump dragging them
down? >> no. rnc said three or four months ago some officials at the rnc said, okay, we don't love the guy. here's the deal. if donald trump loses by one point, two points, we take over the senate. we keep the senate. we keep the house. if he loses by eight or nine points, we lose everything. so it does look like it's a close enough race and it looks like the senate candidates will be judged or their own now. >> rnc has played this by a lot of people who aren't necessarily trump wouldn't have been their first choice who put their focused on down ballot races and done a good job mitigating damage from trump and rob portman has run a brilliant campaign in ohio. you see pockets of hope within the republican party. >> what does it mean if donald trump is elected president? what does it mean for the republican party is he's elected?
>> i'm curious how donald trump would fill his cabinet. those something that voters are extremely concerned about. he'll find smart people and best people to work for him and mention national security times who have disavowed him but that hasn't seeped into the general consciousness yet. who would he fill his cabinet with? at the same time, i don't know that donald trump really would be able to get "the best" people like he always says. >> i'll ask you the same thing, michael steele. we talk if donald trump loses, the party goes back and it resets. but what happens if donald trump wins to the republican party? >> there's still a reset. donald trump will be bringing in a different brand of "republicanism." conservatism as we've come to know it will largely be edged a little bit particularly on some issues. >> the guy that gave a speech he
gave on saturday night, that's your standard bearer. >> again, it's going to redefine the platform. >> does the party split? >> of course it does. it's been in the process of splitting for some time now. the party has having this internal struggle since reagan left office. this battle of litmus test of conservatism. rhino this and conservative that. these battles are all around who we are and what we believe. we've talked about it on this show how that struggle is now pushed up to the surface and what donald trump has done is fully exposed it. if he becomes president, he's now the head of the party. it will be his brand that will dictate a lot of the terms. i think there will be people who will show up to be part of that trump administration but they're going to be a different kind of republican than the folks we've seen in the bush years, et cetera. >> robert costa, so talking about trump's week. what's he got planned? >> he's got a few speeches coming up. one about cybersecurity
according to a few people within the campaign. out in colorado today. in arizona. doing a west coast swing for fund-raising trying to pick it up momentum out west and then he's preparing for this debate. >> all right. thank you so much. also gre always great to have you. hope in what came after. new york magazine has a new sit down with president obama who reflects on his eight years in the oval office. first romney strategist stuart stevens is no stranger to questions about republican nominees and their taxes. his take on donald trump's conundrum, the ole miss rebels and whether he'll endorse the republican nominee today. it would be fun if stuart did that. it would be a story. udent? is it a caregiver determined to take care of her own?
what's going on? they gave me a bummed mike so how many people in this room think that maybe that was done on purpose? >> there are people who actually responded affirmatively. >> let's go to annapolis right now and talk to stuart stevens. chief strategist for mitt romney's 2012 presidential campaign and with us steve kornacki. stuart, are you ready to endorse trump this morning? >> i think i'm going to hold off on that, joe, but thank you for the opportunity. >> how is ole miss doing this year? >> we're doing okay. congratulations on alabama winning. it has to happen every few years. >> once every three years,
right? so i wonder about this tax story. most of us around the table just don't think that many americans care whether trump paid taxes over 15 years or not if he did it legally and maybe a guy taughting his business experience might have more impact. >> i think it hurts him. particularly given his running against a rigged system. he's appealing to a lot of voters to feel like they're the big powerful forces that they can't control who advantage others. classic case study that would be a tax system that allows you don't have to pay taxes if that's the case for 18 or 20 years. i think it definitely hurts him. what donald trump should do is he should release the last couple years of his taxes and just move on from there and get it out there.
otherwise it's going to hang over the campaign. >> he's not going to do that. it's interesting though. this is a lot like him saying that the system was rigged and when he lived in new york he had to be a democrat. of course he gave money to hillary clinton and chuck schumer and dnc because he had to work the system. and republicans, i still can't believe it, but republicans allowed him to get away with that in a primary process. if any mere mortal i knew case money to hillary clinton it would have been the kiss of death. >> they should have run a stronger campaign against him. there was this mistaken idea if you got one-on-one with donald trump he would win. they allowed other candidates to be the focus instead of donald trump. donald trump is at the stage of his campaign where he needs to ask voters for a second look. he needs to go out in the next debate and go out on the stump and say if you support me, i
hope i'll continue to earn your support. if not, give me a second look. i thought i knew everything about running for president when i first started. i didn't. i learned a lot. i can say anything i want in the new york media to get business that helps my real estate business. you can't run for president and be president like that. i hope you'll give me a second chance. americans are very good at giving people second chance. until he does that, he's sort of in this cul-de-sac of the same voters. >> unless you're asking for a second chance on monday morning when you just threw out on saturday night that hillary clinton probably wasn't faithful to her husband. it makes that turn a little more difficult. >> he's being patient waiting to ask for second chance. doesn't want to rush it. steve, give us your latest take on the electoral college. i talked to some that say the pennsylvania path for trump is not likely anymore and if he's going to get to 270, he needs to
find a way without pennsylvania. >> i think that's right. good news/bad news for donald trump. when you look at the electoral college, he's in better shape than romney was in 2012. he's at risk of losing north carolina. that's the only romney state he's at risk of losing. if you look at other obama states, ohio, he's ahead right now. iowa, he's ahead right now. i think florida he's behind but within striking distance in florida. nevada, he had been ahead. there was one poll that came out at the end of last week that put hillary clinton up six in nevada. that's the one that raises the question of is there a debate bounce here for hillary clinton? will we see polls this week -- >> we get one poll from nevada. >> the five before that had him up. that suggests -- >> if he wins those, he's one state away. >> if it's not pennsylvania what would it be? is colorado back in play? that's one people had written off. wisconsin is the other or new
hampshire. those are your three other possibilities there and you're getting that one electoral vote in maine and maybe, let's be honest, if he gets a big enough margin out of that rural district in maine, statewide in maine is not out of the question either. >> i was in wisconsin and north carolina the last two weeks and if i had to bet, i would say that trump would win there. wisconsin and north carolina. i think he'll probably win north carolina. >> hold those romney states and then there are paths. >> do you agree with the premise that trump is in better shape with electoral college than romney was four years ago at this point? >> it's hard to gauge without looking at internal numbers where they are. i think if you look at the early voting numbers out of north carolina, absentee voting numbers, clear that democrats are doing a better job of harvesting those votes. unusual to have a presidential campaign with unequal
organizations. for the most part, there really isn't much of a trump campaign. it's just kind of more of a concert tour. i think that you're going to begin to see this when you start looking at these early voting numbers. >> the question is, what happens? are they overwhelmed the day of? i think that's one of the most fascinating things about this election. we have basically, we've convinced ourselves that in 2004, george w. bush won because of an extraordinary effort by ken mehlman and karl rove to get out the vote operation. trump has nothing. you're right, a grateful dead concert tour that just sort of goes from town to town and tries to find the biggest audiences. if they end up winning, it obliterates every rule of presidential politics that we've made up. >> you know, it's interesting. when you look at the real clear politics average on election day in 2012.
president obama was up .7. they won by more because they had this ability to get a lot of early votes in and a really powerful organization. i just think that these are factors that campaigns count on to be able to deliver the percentage of votes that they're getting and donald trump is counting on a lot of low percentage voters. he needs to really be able to deliver those voters to the polls. it will be interesting to see if he can. >> steve kornacki, wre talking about iowa. trump ahea in iowa right now. surprisingly in one poll close to double digits. wisconsin is close. much closer than it usually is. ohio. are we talking about states here and new mexico he's closer. >> that's the other interesting one. >> are we talking about states that are whiter and have fewer black voters? does that tie iowa and ohio and
wisconsin and new mexico together? >> yeah. new mexico obviously has a large latino population. why is iowa the one where trump isn't just ahead, he may be running away with it in iowa at this point. we talked about that divide among white voters. noncollege blue collar white voter versus more culturally moderate. that's a thing in politics that exploded this year in a way we haven't seen before. so trump's strength is blue collar white. in 2012 across the country, 36% of the electorate was noncollege white. blue collar white. 36% nationally. the number for iowa is 54%. so this is a state, very few nonwhite voters. >> iowa 54% noncollege white. national number was 36. it's that much higher than the national average and that's a group of voters trump is doing so much better with.
republicans have been doing well with them for a while but trump is exploding standing with them. iowa is a state that looks taylat tailer made. this has frustrated republicans. they say wisconsin is a state they haven't won since reagan in '84. demographically if you took names off, it looks similar to iowa. >> all right. stuart stevens, thank you so much. steve kornacki, stay with us if you will. coming up, new season of "saturday night live" kicked off this weekend and the show's highest premiere ratings since the last time we elected a president. we'll have more highlights coming up on "morning joe." my business was built with passion... but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business...
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>> first, she's been battling pneumoni and we hope she's feeling better tonight. it's secretary hillary clinton. >> i'm better than ever. let's do this. donald trump has terrible judgment. he makes bad decisions. he's spent his life cheating middle class laborers. laborers like my own human father who made, i guess, drapes, or printed drapes or sold drapes. something with drapes. he was relatable and i am also
relatable. >> my microphone is broken. she broke it with obama. she and obama stole my microphone and took it to canada. they took my microphone and now it's broken. can you hear that? it's picking up somebody sniffing here. i think it's her sniffs. she's been sniffing all night. testing. testing. >> up next, "the washington post" calls it one of d.c.'s most feared groups and that's on both sides of the aisle. the ceo of the conservative group heritage action is here with his top targets on capitol hill. "morning joe" is back right after this. here i am... building a jet engine. we've been hearing so much about how you're a digital company, so you can see our confusion. ge is an industrial company that actually builds world-changing machines. machines that can also communicate digitally. like robots. did you build that robot? that's not a robot, that's my coworker earl. he builds jet engines with his human hands.
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getting too into the voting booth and throw them into a political system that has made their lives miserable. >> there's michael moore. he saw a lot of jobs moving out of flint, michigan, echoing a similar sentiment that "the new york times" quoted from our next guest. trump fulfills the urge many have to punch washington in the face. with us now, ceo of heritage action for america, michael, thank you for being here. >> great to be here, joe. >> it looks like they still, americans still see donald trump as their opportunity to punch washington in the face. >> i think trump has actually tapped into a couple things that are real sentiments out there. working class voters as you were talking about in the segment before who feel disconnected economically and socially. people that look at washington, d.c. and say this is a corrupt cesspool that works well for the well connected. the challenge is how do you connect that to something that's
statesmanlike and a useful policy solution and if you can do that, you can modernize conservatism that met anxieties of the 1980s. >> donald trump hasn't really put meat on those bones. a guy i say what the republican party needs to do is take the aei view of economics and mix it with a strong populist message. that aei view as much as we may have been raised on it is not going to win pennsylvania. it's not going to win ohio. it's not going to win these states that donald trump apparently is running pretty competitively in. >> so i think what you just said explains politics of the last eight years. you have this energy out there. people who are upset at washington, d.c. and feel disconnected in their lives and children who are different and face different problems than parents did. and you had republican leaders who said let's pretend that energy doesn't exist. >> and we sound like jack kemp
in the '80s but our answer to creating jobs is lowering the corporate tax rate and somebody in youngstown, ohio, who can't send their kid to ohio state saying what? >> this is the influence of libertarian coalition where we get caught in this trap between democrats who provide you with a solution that starts with government and republicans who sound like we're just saying don't worry. you'll be left alone. the free market will take care of it. opposed to living in the real space that exists between the individual and government, which is civil society where real compassion happens. trump says the energy out there can't be ignored in we'll be a successful political party, we have to live in the present and talk about the future. he needs to put policy meat on those bones. >> so i wouldn't say that the republican party has been the party of wall street anymore than hillary clinton and bill clinton's democratic party has been the party of wall street. we've been the party of all of
these economic theorists who sound great and make a lot of sense to us and lay the foundation for our political philosophy but mean nothing to people in the rust belt fighting for their lives every day. >> right. because it doesn't bear out to the lived experience. it's not relatable that way. it's a theory on paper. an idea that's talked about in upper echelons. people are in a space to michael's point where they are talking about their lived experience. the republican party in particular -- i saw this particularly as chairman as i traveled around the country has moved away from that. it's become so full of self that it is ignored the very people who have been the sustaining
force. i want to ask michael to dove back on something you and i were talking about, joe. where does the party go in trump wins? what type of republican party does a heritage foundation, does a cato? do a lot of gop institutions that are the backbone of the think tank world, what do they do with the guy who is so outside of what we know as conservatives/republicanism. >> i think regardless of who wins, we need to have a debate about the future of the republican party and how we tap into those policy things that are out there and what people feel in their gut and conduct it to real policy. if trump wins, the head of his domestic political transition is founder of the heritage foundation. we need to put meat onic poly bones and tap into the impulses that trump has tapped into while putting real policy solutions in place. there's no reason not to think that the people who staff out trump administration will be those types of people. if he loses, it's the same
debate. we can't go back to being a republican party that pretends you can gloss over real issues with poll testing marketing solutions. there was great example of house republican conference coming together saying we need to relabel free trade into american trade. it's not the problem with labels. it's who you're fighting for in washington. >> do you think people who have won the republican party for the past 30 years understand and can look past their hatred of donald trump to understand why this is happening and understand that unfettered free trade while they have bowed and our party bowed at the alter of that for 30 years have left a lot of people behind? do you think they can start to understand that? >> i think it's the wrong question. this is the choice. you either understand that the base of our party is not a free trade loving trickle down tax
cut loving party. you either understand it or you continue to lose. and my question for you is you uttered word statesman twice and i feel like my dogs feel whenin electric collar. he will not become a statesman, so are you presuming he's going to lose or are you saying that the bar he has to cross. what is your personal take on whether or not donald trump can win and should win? he has to be a statesman, he won't. >> take aside the question of whether his personality and the way he talks is statesman like, you need to have solutions. we can't abandon our principles. >> do you think he has to act like a statesman to win? >> i think every day he spends not acting like a statesman and getting into the nonsense from 20 years ago and 10 years ago is a wasting day where he's not connecting with people. so there's five weeks left. going out and doing what he did saturday night is just wasting an entire news cycle, three news cycles talking about that, rather than talking about the real experience of working class
americans. about the fact there are issues of nationalism that aren't the kind of ugly issues but what is the right between transnational economic immigration and still being a great country. washington is corrupt. hillary clinton and bill clinton have made fortunes off playing the insider game, doing public service but doing it for private benefit. these are real issues. issues that also knis on the right and the republican party. look, i believe trent lott is an obamacare lobbyist, bob dole is an obamacare lobbyist. there are all sorts of people on our side of the aisle who go to washington so they can enrich themselves as well. these are real issues trump needs to talk about. everything else is a distraction that gives people reasons not to vote for him, as opposed to making life better for people. >> mike needham, thank you for being with us. >> still ahead, no question donald trump had a bad week, but some are saying he may have had his worst week in his presidential campaign. some say even presidential
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i'd look her right in that fat ugly face of hers. she's a slob. she ate like a pig. a person who's flat chested is very hard to be a 10. does she have a good body? no. does she have a fat [expletive]? absolutely. do you treat women with respect? i can't say that either. i just saved thousands on in less than a minute, i found out how much home i can afford. i like how you shop for loans the same way you shop for flights online. i didn't realize that lendingtree you can save money on almost any sort of loan. i consolidated my credit card debt with a personal loan. i found a new credit card with 0% interest for 15 months. you just shop, compare and save, and it's all free.
go to lendingtree right now and start saving. this man is clearly unfit to be commander in chief. >> wrong. >> he is a bully. >> shut up. >> he started the birther movement. >> you did. >> he says climate change is a hoax invented by china. >> it's pronounced ji-na. >> he hasn't released his tax returns, which means he's either not that rich. >> wrong. >> not that charitable.
>> wrong. >> or he's never paid taxes in his life. >> warmer. >> good morning. you guys see that? >> it was so good. >> how great were they? >> amazing. >> pretty amazing. i don't know which one did the role better. great writing. >> i'm going to have to go with the somersault. >> a good somersault. that will let people know. harold ford jr., how are you doing? >> good. good morning. good looking suit. >> university of michigan, go blue. they looked pretty good this weekend. >> we have to keep at it. we're not alabama. we're trying. we consider ourselves alabama of the north. >> the little engine that could. you think you can. speaking of which, the red sox made it to the playoffs. the indians. the giants. we mourn for claire mccaskill and the cardinals who did not make it in. >> how about the metropolitans making it in. >> wednesday night, one-game
elimination. >> your chicago cubs, 102 wins this year. >> best team in baseball. >> unbelievable. i have a quick question before we dive into all the crazy stuff that went on this weekend. >> seven days a week is what i think. >> seriously, this was crazy. let me ask something. it's something i don't understand. so all throughout december, january, february, march, april, when it really didn't matter, media outlets had like 30 polls a day. constantly. there were polls every single day. >> we can't get one now. >> then everybody goes hey, this was the biggest debate ever. this is going to change things forever. we're going to be watching it. nobody has done a poll. >> we're in a drought. >> let me ask you, mark, because if i were a conspiracy theorist, i would think that they had taken polls and they didn't like the trend lines. why would you not take a poll in an entire -- why wouldn't nbc,
abc, cbs, like the "washington post," abc did a poll on their likability. we know they're all hated. you don't have to waste my sunday morning telling me that everybody hates these two characters. >> there are some poll numbers coming. >> why haven't they done them this past week? that's stupid. >> yeah. >> insanity. they spend millions and millions of dollars. >> what is the answer? >> there is no good answer. we have no idea how americans really reacted to the debate. now, why would that be? >> it has to do with the fluke of scheduling and budgets. >> that's just such bs. whoever schedules in budgets should be fired because fox news is the only network that has done a poll post-debate. and you're like, okay, listen, this is what we're going to do. okay, get your calendars out. get your calendars out. we're going to do a poll on
march 12th, 19th, the 23rd, the 27th, the 29th, and then, we're going to run out of money at some point, yeah, but we don't run out of money until the first debate. so then we'll wait a month. like, i'm serious. what's up? that's my pet peeve for the day. >> yeah. >> how was your weekend? >> it was great. football season is back. you know, so it's like all is right in america. >> did you see the tennessee/georgia game? >> tennessee is coming back. did you see the game. georgia -- first, tennessee had won, and then georgia won, and then georgia, penalty on the kickoff, and they threw one deep. >> i miss mika right now. >> yeah, i wanted to -- i know everybody is like really ticked off about donald trump not paying taxes for like 78 years. >> yeah. >> whatever. >> we're bummed about the tweet storm. >> i was going to say what i'm more bummed about, and i know
everybody is like, joe scarborough, you love donald trump. no. i'm not offended by mitt romney paying 14% taxes. i'm not offended by barack obama paying 19% taxes. i'm not offended by donald trump not paying 15% or no taxes for 15 years if that in fact, those are basically the numbers, and paul ryan, 20% tax rate. i pay, of course, a 55% tax rate, so i'm a sucker. right? but the thing is -- >> i share your suckerdom. >> i need a failing casino or whatever barack obama and mitt romney have because they pay 14% and 20%. but the thing is, my feeling is, and i think most americans are this way. if you follow the law, you follow the law. what i'm offended by is a system that allows people like donald trump to fly around on jumbo jets and live in the most opulent places on planet earth and have the biggest, like, the best golf courses all over the
world. and not have to pay taxes for 15%. am i supposed to be made at donald trump for that, or am i supposed to be mad at -- am i supposed to be mad at the government and congress for allowing -- it's a scam. it's like the hedge funders that make billions of dollars, and they're so offended if somebody comes along and says they should pay more than 14% taxes. that, to me, seems to be the real scam. and i'm sorry, i know a lot of people will be mad at me for saying this. most americans are like, pay the taxes that you're legally required to pay and we're good. >> with donald trump, if he would just say what you said and say i have figured out a way to take advantage of the code. i pay no taxes. i took a loss. i'm speculating because i don't know if the "new york times" story is true. he should say those things. >> he said all those things. >> except that he's paid zero. but he said all of that. >> but he won't show us why he's such an expert. >> i said on the "meet the press" program yesterday, the
times story is hyped. great journalism, glad they did it. wonderful story, but the story is premised on saying he could have paid zero taxes. >> he could have. >> but it's premised on he made every year for the last 18 years what he made in the first year. i'm sure he made more some of thoz years. >> i'm wondering if you're donald trump and your schtick is strength, that's i'm stronger than everybody. i'm going to pound everybody. th're suckers and i'm going to make the biggest deal, is the press, and i think the liberal press, we can say, are they focusing too much on him not paying taxes legally, legally, when they should be focusing on him losing a billion dollars? oh, seriously. so seriously, you're going to do for america what you did for your -- hey, thanks but no thanks. we'll go with the lifelong bureaucrat. you know what i'm saying? that seems to be what his supporters would be more offended by. >> i think you're at the rub,
and where we're at another fork in the road, the media is going to talk, probably for ten days about how he paid no taxes. the voters are probably to the degree that the people on the fence are struggling with these two candidates, they're probably still more upset that he called a miss universe contestant fat. >> what about the speech the other night, my god, where he's accusing hillary of the most slanderous things. >> i think his worst moment as a candidate was the physical disability of a person. now he's mocking hillary when she was sick with pneumonia. the press has talked for a week. people worry about other stuff. >> right. michael steele, the press is going to talk probably about him not paying taxes when again, i think the voters that would not vote for trump because of this story would be because he lost a billion dollars in a year. wait a second, this guy is going to do for us what he's done for himself. thanks but no thanks. that's the only tax record we
have of him. then you can go down, you know, you can go down all the other stuff. you go to the speeches where he's mocking hillary clinton's pneumonia and having a terrible moment, when he makes an assumption about hillary clinton's personal life and her personal morality, just out of absolute left field. i think that's, again, if something happened this weekend to re-enforce the donald trump's not fit to be president for people who don't believe he's fit to be president, it was the speech and not the tax issue, i think. >> yeah. i agree with you on that. i still think, you know, beyond the taxes and the billion dollar loss or billion dollars in income, whatever it is, the temperament issue is still a driving issue for voters. and i think for those voters, as you said, who are strongly for or against trump, that's dispositive. they have moved on. they know what will give them their support or take the support away. but for those other voters out
there that trump are still trying to convince, many of them republicans, by the way -- >> and women. >> and women. >> women republicans. >> yeah, women republicans. >> some people call them republican women. >> that's true, too. that works. but that temperament argument, as displayed again this weekend, is going to be a driver for them for the next 40 days of the campaign. >> it is. i want to ask both of you really quickly on the tax issue i brought up earlier. we have actually three republicans here. this is a world record. for msnbc. well, any network, actually, other than fox. michael steele, i want to start with you. are you -- do you agree with me or not that the real outrage here on this tax story is that you've got guys who can live like donald trump paying zero percent in taxes, that hedge funders that make billions of dollars pay 14% in taxes.
is it blasphemous to me to say as a small government conservative that warren buffett is right. if you make a billion dollars, you should at least pay 30% in taxes a year, if your secretary is paying 28% in taxes a year? >> well, as they say, don't hate the player, hate the game. i mean, if you have the ability to take advantage of -- >> i understand that. so i'm talking about what the game should be. should the rules of the game be -- >> absolutely, they should be changed. there's no doubt about that. when you set aside in the tax code an ability to sort of hide investment income or treat investment income differently from regular income, when all you get is investment income, yeah, those types of -- >> and nicolle, somebody works their ass off all year and they pay 28% in taxes, all year. somebody else comes in to the year worth $3 billion, figures out how to be worth $5 billion at the end of the year, because of smart investments, should that person really be paying 14%
in taxes? >> it's appalling. >> it is gross. and why do we as -- >> galling, it's galling to the public if they can even get their brain around these massive sums of money. it's why occupy wall street had legs. it's why elizabeth warren's message about income inequality will always resonate, not just with the far left, but with parts of our base, too. >> and bernie sanders. but you look at donald trump's tax policy, and it's just more of the same. >> it's galling. but to me, i mean, i thought that trump's surrogates were completely over the top yesterday in saying this is an example of his genius. if it were so, then why not release the taxes in his opening speech. but this is squarely his brand. i am running against a rigged system because i have worked it, i exploited it. i figured out how to use it. >> he's honest about it. >> let's show the clips where giuliani and chris christie call him a genius and then mark halperin will respond to that. >> what's your response to the story? >> my response is he's a genius. >> a genius? >> absolute genius.
>> the reality is he's a genius. i would rather have a genius who understands the tax code, who wants to reform it. >> there's no one who has shown more junius in their way to maneuver around the tax code and the genius of donald trump has been to make sure that he follows the law. >> the man is a genius. he knows how to operate the tax code for the benefit of the people he's serving. >> you know, it was very interesting, i thought yesterday in the giuliani interview, with jake tapper, i have never seen anybody bring chains and a trident to an interview, but jake tapper did. did you see that? >> rough stuff. >> jake's had a great cycle. >> yeah, but i mean, in that case, as some would say, everybody was a little overboard, but he like -- i don't know if actually thrusting the trident at giuliani in the middle of an answer -- >> it works at times. >> i guess it worked yesterday.
>> the problem is not hiring a great accountant and aggressively taking deductions. the problem is a system in which the real estate lobby gives donations to politicians and gets favorable tax laws. >> which is what we're saying. this system -- >> but it's not the system of the accountants. the system is rigged because of special interests. >> yeah, just like hedge funders. they have rigged the system so they can make billions of dollars and pay 14% in taxes. >> right, but -- >> while i pay 55% in taxes. not that i'm taking notes. >> there's no indication donald trump has some commitment to a plan to reduce the influence of special interests. he's not proposing reducing the tax -- >> his tax plan is, it's like -- it's just republican. the same thing over the past 30 years. >> xexcept for hedge funders. he wants to change that, but not for the real estate industry. >> do you think that's going to happen? please, seriously? anybody, i bet you a pickup
truck, if there are any reforms, if donald trump is president of the united states and we have the same congress. everybody agree? >> there won't be. >> none. >> none. >> it's why people are pissed off. hallie jackson joins us from washington, plus, philip bump, he all a great tweet over the weekend highlighting a breitbart story slamming the niem"new yor times," while the times advertises above it. but bill karins is tracking a storm in the caribbean. this looks really dangerous. >> so much rainfall is going to fall in haiti. that country has trouble dealing with it. and then we have problems yesterday in jamaica alone, where these pictures are coming out of. the forecast has improved for jamaica over the weekend. it's gotten worse for our friends in haiti. they could experience three to close to three and a half feet of rain over the next two days. here's a look at the storm currently. notice the eye got obscured a little bit. that's a sign of temporary weakening. still a category four.
winds at 130 miles per hour. the forecast will take it due north in between jamaica and haiti, almost up into eastern cube raw early tomorrow morning, landfall around the noon hour. extreme eastern cuba. that's relatively unpopulated. our beige in guantanamo could get hit with strong winds. let's talk about the bahamas. wednesday and thursday dealing with a major category-3 hurricane, close enough to comfort for nassau and freeport that you have to make preps shortly, and then the cone of uncertainty goes into georgia, south carolina, and north carolina. now let's take a look at some of our long range computer models. this is going to give us hints. we're going to watch for trends. last night, the trend was closer to the southeast. a lot of lines this morning are about 200 to 300 miles off the klein of florida and bring it off the coast. one thing to notes, our american model and our european models are closer than the other ones to the florida coast and the southeast. so the forecast is not set in stone yet, we haven't ruled out
anything in the southeast. so pay attention closely to the forecast for the next two days. this is still four days away. plenty of time to prep if it does make a direct impact. a shot of new york city where we haven't seen the sun in about a week. maybe some peeks this afternoon. "morning joe" when we come back. h to build a jet engine. well we thought ge programmed machines to talk. ge is an industrial company that actually builds world-changing machines. machines that can talk to each other digitally. hello? they don't talk to each other like that, ricky. shhhh, you'll anger it. he looks a little ticked off now. explore your treatment options with specialists who treat only cancer. every stage... every day.... at cancer treatment centers of america. learn more at cancercenter.com/experts
speech, which is going to be about 15 minutes and it's going to be in two or three days. i have a great temperament. i have, in my opinion, it's like one of my strongest things. i have a winning temperament. now, she's got bad temperament. she's got -- she could be crazy. she could actually be crazy. hillary clinton's only loyalty is to her financial contributors and to herself. i don't even think she's loyal to bill, you want to know the truth. and really, folks, really, why should she be, right? why should she be? >> nicolle. respond. >> me? >> mocking her health scare. talking about his temperament. and then moving on to speculating about her personal life in a way that is just so
over the top, i -- i have never seen anything like it. >> this the fork in the road. >> i mean, i'm talking about another candidate, i have never seen any one candidate say this about another candidate. >> i talked about the fork in the road, where the media is going to talk about the taxes for ten days and the media around roundtables like this. i think this is the stuff at gut level people are rejecting. this is the stuff if i were running against him, i would want to make sure everybody saw. these are the traits that sort of re-enforce her core message, which is that he's temperamentally unfit to be president. you watch that, and i don't know how you can argue -- what's the other side? that he is? >> they had to make a choice months ago about what frame they put on him. >> they picked right. >> they picked he did not have the temperament. >> they picked the right frame. >> and the proper behavior to be president. he has spent from the debate night through saturday night and on his twitter account every
moment giving them more and more material on this very point. >> he went straight from miss universe, which he got behind. he stopped on friday, i guess it was, and then we have this. >> i asked one of his advisers over the weekend, it seems -- you talk about a binary choice, all the republicans who got behind trump, chicken or fish. i'm for him because i'm not for her. he's got a binary choice. tweet and lose. smash the phone, hrc style with a hammer, and maybe stay in it. >> he's made that choice. i mean, the thing is, you look at what he did, the week after the debate, listen, i think the debate would have been a wash at the end of the day. bl probably. >> because he was strong the first 20, 30 minutes. if we ever get a poll again before we all die. >> but how about that for a standard? he made it through 20 minutes of the whatever 90 minutes, but he would have survived it unchanged. >> you know why he would have survived it? because a lot of people probably watched the first 20, 30 minutes and moved on. >> if he said it was my first
debate and i thought i did okay but i'm going to do better next time. >> he had a whirlwind week with miss universe. he's freaked out about this, i haven't talked to him, but i'm sure he's freaked about the tax story when in fact it's what he did in response to the tax story that he needs to get on his side. >> that speech was saturday night, so the tax story was getting all the attention. so most people haven't seen that speech or even the excerpts we showed, but this is so -- it's so confounding to his supporters, and you're seeing now another wave of republicans freaking out that he's behaving exactly the way -- i mean, it's as if robby mook calls him up every morning and says here's what i need you to do today to re-enforce the notion you don't have the right temperament to be president. >> michael steele, there was frustration inside the trump camp, obviously for a very long time fr time, about the khan family, and people were just pleading with him to stop attacking the khan
family. the same thing happened this past week with miss universe, where everybody, including the family, was saying stop attacking this woman. >> right. >> and so he stops attacking her on friday. i guess, i haven't seen anything since then. then saturday, he's talking about hillary clinton's sex life. suggesting that she has been unfaithful. i mean, seriously, coming from him, it's just remarkable. i mean, i always said, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. he should not be -- >> oh, lord. >> he should not be throwing stones at glass houses. nor should a lot of his surrogates. and i would suggest, nor should any of us, yet they're doing it. he's doing it in the middle of a political speech, along with mocking her for passing out. >> but that's been the protocol
for donald trump from the very beginning. >> we're in october, man. the election is a month from now. >> yeah, yeah, that's true. >> it's not going to ever end, is it? >> it's not going to end, and i don't know why folks seem to expect it will. this is the m.o. this is the way it's going to be. donald trump is the one who decides how much fuel to put on the fire, and when ultimately to put the fire out. and he will put the fire out when he's ready to start another one. that's what we saw this week. from the machado story to where we are now, he decided that the story would last the entire week, and then on friday, he extinguished it and he on saturday lit a new one. we're here on monday talking about that new fire. this is his m.o. it keeps him in the news. it keeps him in the cycle. >> up next, president obama in his own words, what the outgoing commander in chief says about the race to replace him. adam moss is here with the week's cover story. that's next on "morning joe."
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jackson covering the trump campaign, unfortunately for hallie, nothing to report on today. >> what do you want to talk about? liverpool? >> "washington post" politics blog, the fix, philip bump. hallie, nothing to talk about. nothing to see here about the taxes. the speech, i'm just wondering, when you look at a speech like saturday night, and you get to the end of it, you got to be thinking, where's the beef? i got nothing to report on here, right? >> you know what i like about you joe? you really understand the unique challenges of being a reporter on the campaign trail, so thank you for that. >> i really do. you know, i put in enough years at it. >> if you want to talk about the speech from saturday, big shiny object, right? distraction from the "new york times." >> that's what that was all about, right? >> it has to be, right? it was kind of concurrent. the times piece came out at 9:00. he was supposed to deliver this scripted speech going an hillary
clinton on bernie sanders, instead, he questioned her loyalty to bill clinton, he did that imitation of her falling into the car with pneumonia. it was shiny object-esque. something you talked about saturday as well as friday night when i was with him, was the mike issue at the debate. remember? something he blamed for his performance at the debate. getting, by the way, he pointed to the backup he got from the commission on presidential debates which came out with a one-sentence statement essentially confirming, yes, there were sound issues in the debate hall. now, remember, these were not sound issues that affected the 80-plus million people or even in the spin room, but he did seize on this saying i'm vindicated in his view. he said the mike issue was, for example, 60% of his problem in the debate. >> but i'm confused. i thought he won. oh, he would have won by a lot
more? >> he said he won despite the bad mike. even with the bad microphone, he claims he won, even though all the scientific polls after the debate said he did not, as you're aware. >> philip, i love this. this is greats. good you come close, explain to our dear viewers what they're looking at here. >> sure, they're looking at a print-out of a tweet of mine which is basically making fun of the fact that brightpart, of course, being very pro-trump, was to point out the "new york times" pays no taxes, which is somehow equivalent to what is happening with donald trump and they're running an ad saying, hey, support the "new york times." >> what is your take on this crazy weekend? >> yeah. crazy. >> you have this guy saying hey, i can run your country like i run my business. he reports he's lost a billion dollars a year, and then of course, the speech, which i think actually was the most concerning. >> yeah, i think those are the two things. right? the argument that's being made
is about temperament. the speech was in part him being angry at the way the week had gone. he was still angry from hillary clinton for beating him so soundly in the debate, which he knows. part of the reason he was lashing out was because of the anger. all the tax returns we have, the only evidence we have is he paid no taxes and he had huge losses in 1995. that's something that undermines his core argument, which is i can bring jobs to america. >> most mad at alicia machado, though. >> he stopped talking about her. >> stopped talking about her, but i think the thing that kept him up until 3:00 in the morning, literally, was a fight with someone he found ungrateful, which is the easiest, fastest, and surest way under his skin. when he finds, especially a woman, ungrateful for his generosity, it drives him mad. it drives him insane. you saw megyn kelly get under his skin for raising the issue in the beginning. now we're sort of back where we started. >> mika called nurotic and every other name in the book. >> he always uses that towards women.
>> because look at me. who's neurotic. i'm neurotic, okay. don't call me -- i have earned the title. i want the title. i'm sorry, you were saying. >> that's my point exactly. he's just misogynistic. >> you agree. >> you're way more neurotic that mika. >> no doubt about that. by the way, correct answer. so what's happening at trump headquarters? what's happening right now, hallie, with this campaign? i know everybody around trump wants him to level off and stop these personal attacks. just doesn't seem like he's going to be able to do it. doing this since the beginning of the campaign. we're like in october. >> right. as you hold up the paper there. so the thing is -- the problem is that publicly, joe, they can't come out and say this on television, for example. we're talking about his surrogates, about the people close to him. we have seen what happens when
his loyal aides have gone out on television and tried to sort of nudge him one direction or the other in a public way, in a public setting. that is, to him, disloyalty, and that is the greatest offense that somebody on his team can commit. so instead, you've got his team potentially working to kind of get him on track behind closed doors and then surrogates, like rudy giuliani, like newt gingrich doubling down on the comments about alicia machado and her weight gain, defending trump when it comes to remarks on hillary clinton and her quote/unquote loyalty. it's an issue when you look at sort of the broader view of the people that have been put out to get his message across. they almost have no choice but to fall in line behind whatever he's saying that morning at 5:00 a.m. or whatever. >> you guys think rudy giuliani and chris christie are helping trump or hurting him or nor effect as surrogates? >> i think chris christie overall has been a net bonus for trump. he's behind the scenes played an important role, being a more calming, stable influence.
rudy giuliani right now has just been quite frankly unhinged in the things he's been saying. saying yesterday extramarital affairs are the norm in american society. where has this election gone if we're going out of our way, using our surrogates to justify infidelity as a social norm? >> i think that chris christie is, if the reporting is accurate that he's been put in charge of prepping him for the next debate, all of us probably saw him in new hampshire in the primary. that is his strength, is a new hampshire-style town hall. so i think if that reporting is true moving forward, i think that's a real sort of tangible way that chris christie's role can expand and help him. what do you think? >> philip, everybody has been talking about donald trump and how unhinged donald trump has been and how neurotic donald trump has been and how crazy he's been, and et cetera. he's doing better, at least right now, in this -- we're actually in the middle of a
desert when it comes to polling, but when we get to the other side, he's doing better state by state by state than ever before. >> right. >> doesn't that -- >> it's going like this. >> up down, up down. trump is always the reset. he offends, they go away, they always come back. he offends, they go away, with the khans, they always come back. they're probably going to go away with the miss universe stuff, and if he gets out of the way, d they come back? is donald trump the reset? because this is a change election? >> that the question. where on this cycle we have seen repeatedly, will it end here and hillary clinton wins by eight points or will it end here and it's a close contest. there are state polls that suggest there's going to be a widening gap because of what happened in the debate, but i think part of the challenge is donald trump values loyalty over honesty among the people who work with him. that's pretty clear. so rudy giuliani is still out there on the stump because he's very loyal to donald trump even if the things he's saying aren't
helpful to his candidacy. part of the challenge for trump over time is trying to corral him into saying things he's supposed to say. on saturday night, he had two teleprompters but he was talking off the cuff. >> wow, all right, hallie jackson, thank you so much. we appreciate it. philip, thank you as well. >> still ahead, one of the more stunning op-eds of the entire campaign. a leading wall street conservative throws her support behind hillary clinton. and by the way, she's not kind of like this warm and fuzzy type of conservative. so that's next, and mika's mu - must-read opinion pages and we hear there's actually a poll that's come out. >> the desert. the oasis in the desert. >> i see an oasis straight ahead when we return. my name is barbara and i make dog chow natural.
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is she in nice or monaco? >> and the exchange rate is to her favor. >> exactly, so she's not in nice. she's not. actually, so dorothy, one of the great conservative pulitzer prize winning authors, writers for the "wall street journal," you said you -- i read it, and i was just -- >> i read it out loud to my husband because i couldn't get his attention. he was doing things like feeding our small child. it was stunning. >> it really was. so she writes this in the "wall street journal." hillaryeratered dearrangement syndrome. mrs. clinton hasn't failed to provide cause for her for hern own proclivities. even so, such proclivities pale next to the occasion for cringing which would come with a trump presidency. the end of the election is now in sight.
some among the anti-hillary brigades have decided to stay home on election day rather than vote for mrs. clinton, but most americans will soon make their choice. it will be mr. trump or mrs. clinton. experienced, forward looking, determined, and imminently sane. her election alone is what stands between the american nation and the reign of the most unstable, psycholodge clael unfit president ever to enter the white house. >> stunning. >> a conservative voice to say the least. her whole life, she's been fighting the conservative cause. >> and the clintons. >> and the clintons. what's your reaction? >> my reaction is i wonder what bill kristol is going to do next. because i think he's been one of the loudest never trumpers. he's abstaining. i think she puts the right question. this is a chicken or fish election. you can't be against him and not for the choice.
and joe bush has staked out this position. there are a lot of people who are sort of sitting this out. i think this is the choice. go >> if you believe as bill kristol and others have suggested, i don't know if bill said this specifically, but if you believe donald trump is so unstable that he could lead to a nuclear winter, i don't know that gary johnson is actually -- >> that's my conundrum. that's why i couldn't -- i can't support gary johnson after seeing how ill informed he is on foreign policy. from that op-ed, the key words i pull out, the quote imminently sane. >> imminently sane. >> and about his psychological fitness for office. i think that really is the question that is coming down to among a lot of conservatives right now who are thinking seriously about this election choice. and how they probably can't vote for trump. >> it's just amazing that the republican nominee will get at a minimum 42 million votes. so therefore, broadly acceptable to tens of millions of
americans, yet people like dorothy, bill kristol, and others who care about the conservative movement do not like the clintons, can't stomach voting for them. >> i think they see far more danger in donald trump, reif fining the question i was asking earlier. redefining what it means to be a republican, a conservative, whereas if hillary clinton wins, well, we control the senate and the house, and we're the loyal opposition for four years. morning consult has a new poll out that shows actually a bit of a movement. hillary clinton at 42%. donald trump down at 36%. gary johnson at 9%, who are those 9%? and jill stein at 2%. so there's a post-election poll from politico and morning consult. we'll talk about that when we come back. but six points, that's pretty significant in a four-way race. >> that's the good news for her. the bad news for her, she's at 42%. which is not enough to win.
>> the republican nominee is at 36%. that's crazy. eight years in america, hoping what came after the new cover story of "new york" magazine taking a deep dive into the obama years with a man mark halperin and i call, is it safe to say? >> greatest magazine editor over two centuries. dominant. >> that's significant. adam moss with us next. it's abod not back. it's looking up not down. it's feeling up thinking up living up. it's being in motion... in body in spirit in the now. boost. it's not just nutrition, it's intelligent nutrition. with 26 vitamins and minerals and 10 grams of protein. all in 3 delicious flavors. it's choosing to go in one direction... up. boost. be up for it.
magazine. you say, greatest magazine editor of the 21st and 20est century? >> late 20th, without reservation, competition. >> without peer. >> or objective. >> it's -- >> trying to get hired? what's going on? i feel like we're making you comfortable. >> he is the pulse. >> really quickly, tell everybody a little bit about our next guest. >> our next guest has worked for how many magazines? >> like four. >> four. seven days, new york magazine, "new york times" magazine, and esquire. everywhere he's gone, he's produced great and entertaining journalism. what should journalism do? it should inform and entertain. what does adam moss do? inform and entertain. >> he's doing it again.
witho out with a new issue with president obama and the cover story titled eight years in america. the president discusses some of the more critical moments in his time in the oval office. here with us now, a man who has nothing to live up to now, no expectations to live up to, adam moss. adam, what was your great takeaway from the president's interview? >> he's -- he is himself. i mean, he chose five days of his presidency. we lightly edited the whole thing. he speaks in complete paragraphs. >> when you say he is himself. does that include being stubbornly barack obama? >> it does. >> not playing by the rules of washington? >> well, it means being utterly reasonable, and knowing and thinking that he is utterly reasonable. >> right. >> it means being somewhat defensive, as he is in news
things, protecting his sort of his legacy from attacks on the left, attacks on the right. really trying to -- what this really is a sort of early draft of his memoirs. he's trying it out. we asked him to pick five days of his presidency he thought were important, and that's what he does. then we supplemented around it with joe biden, who is hilarious, actually, if you read the full transcript. and you know, his versions and john kerry and his trip -- his negotiations with iran. and really wonderful thing, eric holder on his trip to ferguson, so it's a lot of in the room stuff. about these years, and it's also an attempt to tell, sort of the entire story, widely and crazily ambitious of the last eight years in america, trying to make sense of it in retrospect as of now. trying to understand it as a civil rights movement, a bigger civil rights movement than i
think it felt ever at the time. and it's a kind of tapestry of actual sort of news reel and interjections almost sort of commentary. >> what was in it for the president to cooperate at this point with his memoirs at least a year away? >> i think he's trying out. you know, i think there are things even at this moment that he, i think he is very invested in his legacy, in spite of the fact his people say he doesn't care about that right now. i think he is quite invested in it. he's trying to very, very gently reshape narratives, settle scores a little bit. you know, he's very -- in the first of these, he's sort of talking about a day, a week into his presidency, when it becomes clear, john boehner announces he is going to recommend that they reject the stimulus bill before the stimulus bill has actually
been put through. and it's sort of at that moment that he realizes his entire presidency will be one of obstruction, and he takes us in between, inside the rooms and the real conversations he's been having with boehner. >> does he take any responsibility for that, though, is there any reflection of the low moments, the red line with syria, what's happened in aleppo? any remorse, any regret? >> not that moment. he does talk, one of the dates he chose was the day after scott brown is elected. and so he talks about how he moved to plan b. on health care and how he was -- his responsibility for getting them into a situation where they had lost the senate. >> they lost more midterm seats than any president in american history. >> yeah, well. >> two midterms of his presidency, they lost more seats as a party than any president in american history. >> bill clinton in '94 when that happened to him, was really
introspective and took it on his shoulders, even brought in dick morris. now that's -- >> that's low. >> that is -- that is taking it to the wall, but brought in dick morris and brought in a guy who everybody around him hated who actually taught them how to beat the hell out of the republicans. >> right. >> any sense at all that barack obama took this on his shoulders? instead of just blaming the republicans? because their reflex has always been to just simply blame the republicans? >> it's hard to tell. from what we have, it's hard to tell what his feeling is. it's a conversation that axelrod has with him after the lowest point in his presidency, and he asks him, you know, do you regret running? do you regret having put yourself through all this? and he, you know, and this is their version of history. so you know, his version is no, just going to stick at it.
i think he's always felt that in the end, he'll be proved right. i think that's always been his perspective. and that's where we are. >> how head ready is he to get out of office? >> i don't know the answer to that question, but one would sense, pretty ready. >> they always are. >> yes. >> i think he was actually ready in 2011. anyway. all right, well, the new issue of "new york" magazine is out now. adamic thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> can't wait to read it. looks absolutely fantastic. that will be it for this morning's edition of "morning joe." kind of crazy morning. >> yeah. >> i think we may get a few polls. >> let's do it all again tomorrow. >> you want to? >> not for three hours. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage after a quick break. thanks for watching. matters. both on the track and thousands of miles away.
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hey, there. i'm stephanie ruhle. this morning, tax and defend. donald trump's surrogates spinning hard his billion dollar loss revealed in his tax returns. >> i mean, the reality is he's a genius. >> there's no one who has shown more genius in their way to maneuver around the tax code. >> just how did this business genius lose a billion dollars? and will voters care that he might not have paid taxes for 18 years? hard hitting is happening. donald trump