tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC October 12, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT
from the "new york times," two women on the record saying that donald trump did exactly to them what he had boasted about in that now famous "access hollywood" tape. she encountered donald trump outside the building. she said she turned and introduced herself, they shook hands but trump would not let go, and he began kissing home run cheeks, and he kissed me directly on the mouth, she said it didn't feel like an accident. another woman, jessica leads, says in the 1980s, she was seated next to trump on a flight to new york, in first class, after a meal was served, that's when donald trump groped her. >> it wasn't until they cleared the meal that somehow or another, the armrest in the seat
disappeared. and it was a real shock when all of a sudden his hands were all over me. he started encroaching on my space and i hesitate to use this expression, but i'm going to and that is he was like an octopus. it was like he had six arms, he was all over the place. if he had stuck with the upper part of the body, i might not have got on -- i might not have got on that upset. but it's when he started putting his hand up my skirt and that was it. that was it. i was out of there. >> nbc news has not spoken of the two women and trump has denied the allegations. the times quote, none of this ever took place and began shouting at the times reporter who was questioning him. he said the times was making up things to hurt him.
# you are a disgusting human being. asked if he had ever done anything that was described on the recording. he says i don't do it. locker room talk is a phrase the donald trump campaign has repeatedly used to dismiss his behavior. and he denied ever doing what he said he did on the tape. >> just for the record, are you saying that you said on that bus 11 years ago, that you didn't actually kiss him without con sent or grope women without c conse consent? >> i have greet respect for him. nobody has more respect for women than i do. you hear these things that were said. i am embarrassed by it but i have respect for women. >> have you donne any of those
things? >> the trump campaign same, the entire article is fiction, and for -- to reach back decades in an attempt to smear mr. donald trump trivializing sexual assault. katie tur, you've been covering the trump campaign for months, what is it like in theirbunker? >> the donald trump campaign was hoping this would not be such a bad week, but it seems to be spiraling out of their control. this is just the latest allegation of many that have come out in the past few days where donald trump has been accuse of inappropriate behav r behavior. two women saying he inappropriately touched them. and donald trump walked in on fourteens during the miss teen
usa pageant. and he said he wanted to date a 10-year-old girl in about 10 years. that came out today. the post came out with what one woman said who behaved inappropriately with her, back stage at a ray charles concert 13 years ago. and you got to go back now and look at the jill hearth allegation, saying that donald trump groped her inni -- and i' vachba claimed that donald trump forced himself on her. she recanted that story, but that was on the record at that time. the campaign is questioning the timing of it. they're questioning the context of it. they're saying why is this coming out now during the course
of a political campaign. it's important to know that any of these claims aren't verifiable by nbc news, they are women who have said this happened decades ago, and the campaign is saying these are not credible women. certainly the buzz feed article, some of them in their teens saying they did not see this happen. as the campaign itself is trying to paint bill clinton as the abuser, somebody who has forced himself on women. s there a report out if they want to paint bill clinton as the next bill cosby basically, certainly this does not line up with their plans, it's not what the campaign is welcoming, it's something the campaign was worried about breaking and lo and behold here it is. >> the donald trump campaign reached out to us tonight.
a.j., my understanding is that the official line of the campaign, these three women, that they are wrong, they're making these stories up. >> that's absolutely right, and that's my position, chris. and as a woman, to be frank with you i'm livid having read this, not only are these accusations not credible, but it's disgusting that the "new york times" is trivializing sexual assault. >> why are they not credible? the woman who was on camera basically said that both women in the "new york times" said the thing that made them come forward is watching donald trump explicitly deny that he would grab a woman by the p-word or that they would grope them. >> i'll tell you why because these allegations are decades old. if he did that, any reasonable woman would have come forward and talked about it.
mentioned in the fax, in the "new york times" piece itself, how convenient that both of these women are hillary clinton supporters and hillary clinton donors. >> and you think the fact that they didn't come forward at that time, that not coming forward at a time a sexual assault happens, unless you do it at the time, then the sexual assault didn't happen? >> i'm not saying that. >> that's why you said it wasn't credible. >> that's not the only reason, i'm also finding it quite dubious that they're hillary clinton supporters and hillary clinton donors. >> and the woman in the palm beach post. >> she herself said that she felt somebody grab her and pinch her butt and she thinks it was
donald trump because he was standing by. that's not credible to me as a woman as somebody who has been sexual assaulted, i'm livid that the "new york times" is trivializing sexual assault this way. >> it seems the context is that donald trump was caught on tape saying that he kisses women without their consent, that he grabs them without their consent, he grabs them by their genitals. he said they let you do it, he didn't say they hypothetically would let you do it. so the contention is that it was entirely hypothetical there, and all the women who have come forward are not credible and making it up. >> you make it sound like 20, this isn't bill clinton we are talking about. oh, it's only one person's word, or joy behar, suddenly when the accusation is against donald trump there is -- >> and i understand why you guys
want to make it about bill clinton, but he's not running for president. >> he'll be back in the white house, though. back around 22-year-old interns, that to me as a woman, that to me is a huge concern. >> appreciate you're opinion tonight. i'm joined now by lisa bloom, who's representing another one of trump's accusers. your reaction that we now have three women on the record in the past hour or so. there's a june facebook post from 2013 miss washington which has now resurfaced, saying that donald trump had groped her, what do you make of all this? >> there's now six women by my count, and jill hearth who's my client, who's been out there talking about her 1997 lawsuit. so she did explain contemporaneously and her ex-husband still supports her
all of these years later and corroborates all of her allegations from 1997 and her allegations are that trump continuously groped her on numerous occasions under the table when they were trying to do a business deal, including in the children's bedroom at mara lago. and i hope that trump being caught on tape bragging about sexual assault and the other women coming out and rest assured, there are going to be many, many more. i hope this certainly validates not only jill hearth but what all of the women have been saying about donald trump. how many women have to accuse him of sexual assault and sexual harassment before they're believed? is it going to have to be 12, 20, 50 like bill clinton? >> i want to make it clear that the alleged behavior, bill cosby
and roger ailes of fox news, somewhat similar patterns. allegations of sexual assault, or sexual harassment. until a crescendo, a kichtd of chorus that it was difficult to dismisall that. >> and i have spent many hours over the last few days talking to women who are terrified about coming forward. and i think many more will come forward, because every woman who comes forward, feels more empowered by those who came before her, each woman stands on the shoulders of those who came before her. what women really hate is being called a lie area. that's what the "new york times" women said. and my client has for many years. how could she have gone through this many years ago, and be a trump supporter. if you're a hillary supporter then you lose, if you're a
donald trump supporter you can't win. these are women across the political spectrum that are coming out now. and i think there will be dozens and dozens more come out in the next few weeks. new allegations about donald trump's back stage behavior, this time at the miss teen usa pageant. nce company. like any of these types of plans, it could help you with out-of-pocket medical costs. call now and request your free decision guide and explore the range of aarp medicare supplement plans. start gathering the informion you need... to roll into sixty-five with confidence. i have to tell you something. dad, one second i was driving and then the next... they just didn't stop and then...
>> breaking news this morning, that two women coming forward saying that they were groped by donald trump. the trump campaign saying there's no truth to any of it. you guys got to see the whole play of that. your response? >> i think that it's ironic for a candidate that is so into strengthening our country's borders, he's so disrespectful
of people's boundaries. >> that's right. >> this is obviously a pattern and this is something that he has not lied about, this is something that donald trump has lied about. he's lied about his wealth perhaps, he's lied about whether or not he pays taxes, but he definitely has not lied about the fact that he's sexist. >> you're making this case today, it's like he does this reading of the snake where the snake says, it's in my nature to kill you, you take me in and then i bite you, as far as sexism goes, donald trump is who he is, i mean the man ran beauty pageants and he game into public life as a legendary misogynist. >> coming out of the gate at the first debate when he made a woman's menstrual cycle a subject of this election, in the
"new york times" at the debate, it's clear that he exudes this brand of objectification and he proves this line over and over and over again. donald trump doesn't talk about women in a way in which is objectifying and demeaning, he's been accused of rape, he's been accused of sexual assault, he's been accused of sexual harassment. it's not a question offive these stories were going to come out, it's when they were going to come out. >> using terrible words to describe women is in one category, sexual harassment is in one category, rape is in one category. i don't want to run everything together because there's obviously differences. when this whole thing kicked off, was the megyn kelly
question, it wasn't like people went into this with her eyes closed, megyn kelly ran through the list of things he's said. >> everything that has happened has been so predictable and set up for us, he's goaded the press to look up more details of this alleged harassment. he was so overconfident that she was somehow smarter than the press, and he could prevent these stories from coming out or he forgot about them. >> obviously he doesn't know what sexual assault is. a man who's running for president right now does not understand what sexual assault is. that's the thing. >> we have a report from joshua green from "the washington post," there's an old tape from entertainment tonight, him talking about 10-year-olds which
is gross, there's a buzz feed story, which is really disturbing, in which a bunch of miss usa contestants, who are in a state of undress, he barges into the dressing room. >> he doesn't respect their privacy, he doesn't respect them as human beings, and he thinks that's something he can do because he's donald trump. >> bloomberg is saying that steve bannen and the exhead of breitbart are going to go nuclear on bill clinton. they're going to turn bill clinton into bill cosby. >> as i was watching the show at the beginning, we're getting a textbook class, like a 101 beginner class as to how powerful men get away with sexual assault. the thing that the surrogate told you over the phone, saying that these women can't be
believed because of their political association. these women were afraid to come forward clearly with their allegations and they're doing it now. bill clinton is not the next bill cosby, i don't think donald trump is the next bill cosby, i think donald trump is the next donald trump. and we're going to get so many of these stories coming out, this is the tip of iceberg. >> either people who say they were sexual assaulted or harassed years ago can be believed or they can't. and you don't get to say they can if and only if. >> you're dragging out years old allegations, now we're going to return folly with -- my con tension, you know, to be sort of consistent here, i have no business in saying that the women who have accused bill clinton of lying of sexual assault are making it up. i respect the possible credibility of what they're saying, but he's not running for president. and that to me is the crucial distinction here. >> it was really rich to hear
the trump surrogate on the phone. >> a.j.? >> yeah, mention that like what if bill clinton was in the white house. well what if donald trump was in the white house? >> yes. >> that's exactly what people are -- >> on the tape, it says when you're a star, you can do whatever you want. if he's president, what do you think he can do? >> if he thought a realty television star role allowed him to do that, what would president allow him to do? coming up, we'll talk about that buzz feed story that i keep mentioning about donald trump's alleged behavior at the miss usa pageant. it's measured by what weo for our children. it's why as president i'll invest in our schools. in college that leads to opportunities... not debt.
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the news the breaking a bit. new reports of more inappropriate behavior by donald trump, this time at beauty pageants. trump engaging in locker room talk about the perks of owning the miss usa pageant. >> i'll go backstage before a show and everybody's getting dressed and ready. and no men are allowed anywhere, and i'm allowed to go in because i'm inspecting it. is everyone, okay? they're standing there with no clothes, is everybody okay and you see these incredible looking women so i sort of get away with things like that. >> get away with things like that. two former pageant members are asserting those -- she said that -- >> our first introduction to him was when we were at the dress
rehearse sal and half naked changing into our bikinis, to have the owner come walking in when we're naked, or half naked in a very physically vulnerable position, and then to have the pressure of the people that work for him to go fawn all over him, go walk up to him, talk to him. >> another contestant in the miss usa pageant. mr. trump just barged right in didn't say anything, stood there and stared at us. he didn't walk in and say i'm sorry, i was looking for someone, she continued. he walked in, he stood and he stared. he was doing it because he knee he could. trump's unannounced dressing room visits extended to the miss teen usa franchise. four women who competed in the 1997 miss teen usa beauty pageant say donald trump walked into the dressing room, while
contestants some as young as 15 were changing. two of the women spoke anonymous anonymously, one on the record telling buzz feed, i was putting on my dress real quick because i'm like oh, my god, there's a man in here, trump was like, don't worry, ladies, i have seen it all before. trump ran the miss teen usa and miss usa palgts. nearly a dozen contestants said they didn't recall seeing trump in the dressing room. according to buzz feed, most were dubious or dismissed the possibility out v hand. trump issued a statement from nbc news saying in part these accusations have been disproven by the other individuals that were present. you have to ask yourself what the political motivations really are, why the media is pushing it. the reporting comes on the heels of the release of the now infamous ""access hollywood"" tape which reporters have
dismissed as locker room talk. he has invited women who accused bill clinton oversexual misconduct to sit in the audience. today the republican nominee out on the campaign trail, used his critique got his debate performance to lob another degrading attack at his opponent. >> i'm standing by my chair, she walks across the room, she's standing right in front of me. and the next day, i said what did the paper say? they said, he invaded her space. believe me, the last space i want to invade is her space. believe me, i don't want to invade her space. st during the gold rush. and aunt susan was a a world champion. i inherited their can-do spirit. and their double chin. now, i'm going to do something about it. kybella® is the first of its kind injectable treatment
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joining me now, democratic political strategist, former apprentice contestant, rick wilson. currently senior advisor to edwin mcmullen. you have been tweeting for months, more is coming out. was that a hunch? was that a certainty? was that the gossip in the world of republican political opo? >> there's a ton of opo on trump that a lot of us have had access to for a while. most of the stuff we had seen previously is trump's rather ey
empowered himself to do things that most americans would find creepy, wouldn't want to have happening to their daughters or their wives or their girlfriends if trump was around. maybe some of them would gladly cuff themselves for the donald, but most american men wouldn't. that's why he's having some real problems now. >> you obviously worked with him on the apprentice set, my sense is you've never had any experiences like this personally. does this surprise you? >> it does not surprise me. it does not surprise me at all. and the problem for donald trump with his denial of this in his campaign's denial of these allegations is that he is on record saying that he did every
single one of these things. >> that's right. >> he is his own corroborating witness, he can be a witness against himself if there was ever a trial because he himself has accused himself of these things. it is ridiculous for him to deny it. because why would he say he did it whchb he didn't do it. and it lines up with what every single woman says, when this many people of this many different back grounds are accusing you of the same thing, they can't all be wrong. >> i thought about a few analogs here, and one was arnold schwarzenegger, and you remember, this was about a week before the election in california colorado, he was up in the polls and pretty similar profile pattern behavior, l.a. times had found a bunch of women who had said he had groped, sexual assaulted, inappropriately touched them, also in a sort of similar situation, he's a star, he can
do what he wants. he very famously basically didn't deny it. rather than sort of double down, he basically said, yeah, i have done a lot of stuff on movie sets and where there's smoke there's fire. that essentially worked for him. donald trump got up in front of 6 million people and said absolutely not. >> this is a guy who's made the case over and over again, he's said he's done these things, they're on tape, you can't just go back because you're in the trump realty distortion field that things he said didn't happen. he told howard stern these things, he said these things on the billy bush tape. he said these things over and over again about the sort of behavior he exhibits with women. you can't just redact them now and say that's not what he really meant, that's just a character he's playing on tv, i'm sorry, it doesn't work that way, especially when it's eyewitness evidence and direct evidence on the record from these folks and this is a guy
who would get shredded if this went to discovery. i would be surprised if he comes through with any of these bluff about suing the times or suing these women. because if he gets in court, his story will collapse like a house of cards. >> the fallout of that tape was swift and severe, the bottom dropping out, a little bit post from the total depths. he can't win the election with the margins he has right now, you can attack the demographics and then give them what you want that to me strikes me as the biggest one. >> mathematically, with women voters, there's no path to victory for him. >> unless he would radically shrink it in the next week. >> part of the reason he's saying why are these women coming out now? nobody ever wants to be the first person to come out,
because people don't want to be mall lined, people don't want the reprisal that comes out, the reprisal is swift, hits vicious, it's brutal. so people don't want that. but as people come out, it gives more women comfort to coming out. because people act as if you speak out against trump, it's giving you all this great publici publicity, you're a working person coming out against trump, it's a thing you do that causes harm to you. >> and sort of waving the red flag in front of the bull, i'm reminded about gary hart, a presidential candidate, was accused of marital infidelity, but he famously basically dared the press, sort of dared the press to follow him around, quote unquote, and donald trump standing on that debate stage, saying, no, you could just see
assignment editors across the country saying, okay. >> and we have a million tom fiedlers, who caught gary hart back in the '80s, all of them saying, this is a guy who said all these things on tape for years and years, this has been his known m.o, and he wants to deny it on the debate stage. so a lot of people are going to come forward, who have been silent for years, or they have had michael cohen force an ndaa down their throats on behalf of donald trump, in whatever circumstances they find themselves after interacting with trump. and these are people that have reached a breaking point partly because donald trump has broken our political system so badly. he's got the entire political caucus endorsing and not endorsing. >> endorse, unendorse, reendorse car-sell ride, but after today's
revelations, maybe the wheel just keeps spinning and we end up back at unendorsed. coming up, donald trump backed into a political corner, comes out swinging once again, day two of trump against the world. [ gears stopping ] when your pain reliever stops working, your whole day stops. try this. but just one aleve has the strength to stop pain for 12 hours. tylenol and advil can quit after 6. so live your whole day, not part... with 12 hour aleve. no, i'm scheduling time to go oto the bank to get a mortgage. ugh, you're using a vacation day to go to t bank? i know, right? just go to lendingtree.com. get up to five loan offers to compare side by side for free. wow, that's great. wait. hodid you get in my kitchen? oh, i followed a raccoon in through your doggie door.
[raccoon chattering] [gasps] not the bank's.rtgage on your schedule. lendingtree. when banks compete, you win. just think of him as a big cat! [raccoon chatter] with rabies. the donald trump campaign is in triage tonight after allegations he groped several which women. according to a report in bloomberg, the trump campaign is planning a counter attack. down badly in the polls, his reputation in tatters, facing the exsis ten shall threat faced with increasingly likely possibility he'll lose on the grandest stage imaginable. donald trump makes so responsibility for his
statements. he's telling his supporters that he's only losing because of -- that he's now seeking to discredit, delegitimize and stroiz. today he lashed out at the republican party leader who refuses to defend him. house speaker paul ryan and other republicans have sinister motives for not rallying around trump after the second political debate. >> you would think they would be saying, let's go, don, she's a crook, we have got to stop her. no, he doesn't do that. there's a whole deal going on, we're going to figure it out. i always figure things out. but there's a whole sinister deal going on. >> it's just not paul ryan that he's out to -- it's the pollsters, he casts as corrupt. the media outlets he monnizes over and over. and people at the highest level of our government who he suggests are involved in collusion on a mass scale, to keep clinton from going to jail
and keep trump out of the white house. >> this corruption and collusion is just one more reason why i will ask my attorney general to appoint a special prosecutor. but we have to also, remember this, remember this, this is maybe in a sense even more important, we have to investigate the investigation. but what do you do when you hand them over to the fbi and the justice department and that's the end of it? we have never been in a position like this, i'm so embarrassed by what's taken place and i'm very, very disappointed in congress because our people, our politicians, i don't know, do they make a deal where everybody protects each other in washington? maybe that's it. i really believe it. i really believe it. she deleted the e-mails, she has to go to jail. >> donald trump's lashing out, his willingness to demonize our most important institutions in a
desperate attempt to help himself has consequences, yet a trump supporter said she wants a re-loose. last night nbc news asked a donald trump supporter who's act what happens if donald trump loses. >> i think people are going to rise up, because we're tired of taking it, we're tired of being deplorable. we want to be thought of as americans instead of just her steppingstone, so yes, people will probably rise up. we will defend ourselves and make sure that the laws that need to be instated in this country be instated and not just forgotten. take it as it is. you're in the south. we're all second amendment pros. we want our country back, i can just say that. and she's not going to give it to us. >> former white house council john dean, and a man who has
experienced some of the most high stress sort of high stake tests of american institutions of democracy, given that experience, what's going through your head as you're watching donald trump increasingly make this case to lay the ground work for a story should he lose of how that los is ill legitimate? >> i see a lot of similarities between nixon and trump, they're both authoritarian personalities, the thing is that trump is actually at the extreme end of that. he takes it much further than that. he makes nixon something of a choir boy, i don't know of nixon being a sexual predator in his time. but what i see is typical of an authoritarian type personality. they can do no wrong, everybody around them is wrong. they'll do what they have to do win at all costs, that's what nixon did trying to win the election, he succeeded then he got caught and he tried to use
the system in any way he could to protect himself but it didn't work and when the final, really the final lie got told and was put to him, he actually went willingly, he said, you know, it's up and he walked away from it, which might have been one of his grander moments because he had the army on his side. >> this is the key to me, because if you look at how democratic institutions function, they function essentially on norms of conduct. and ultimately when he is confronted by barry goldwater and others, after the famous midnight massacre and said you got to go. he didn't order the justice department to arrest them, or the military to go into a state of emergency which is what could have happened and happens in places around the world all the time. this question of what trump does should he lose without the power of presidency, in terms of eating at that institutional
legitimacy. >> chris, what he really is, he's sort of the product of what's been going on in the develop for a number of years, aye written about it at some length because i find it surprising and somewhat distressing is they're gaming the s democrat mock i is fragile and it does base itself on people performing in a norm a consistent way and not mistreat the system by misbehaving, the fact that he's trying to win the election by offending as many democratic voters as he can so they'll be so exhausted they won't want to show up at the polls andporters will st support him until the end. i find it disquieting, and it's
the first election in my life that i felt uneasy. i think senator goldwater, i wasn't worried about him doing something like starting a nuclear war, in fact as he said to many people, i wouldn't vote for myself given the portrait of who i would be portrayed as in the media. that isn't the case with donald trump, he's revealing himself and not being falsely portrayed by the media. >> so one of the key points i think about nixon and watergate is at the end of that there was a kind of national consensus, there really was, that crimes had been committed, the president stepping down was necessary and the right thing to do, that this was -- you know, the question is can trump supporters, his core, tens of millions of americans, do we have the media institutions or any other institutions to convince them that the rejection
of him was right for the country. >> only if the vote is overwhelming enough. if it's at all close, they'll say it was rigged and they'll fight it. if it was pretty overwhelming, they'll have trouble doing that. if the polls particularly in the election show that he's losing, that will temper them and give them some anticipation of what's going to happen. >> you think the margins matter a lot in terms of the legitimacy of what happens on election day? >> i think this group would say it's a fix if it wasn't something really overwhelming, yes. after the break, the hacking of an american election, the hacking linked to the donald trump campaign. we can see all the bacteria that still exists on the denture, and that bacteria multiplies. that's why dentists recommend cleaning with polident everyday. polident's unique micro clean formula works in just 3 minutes, killing 99.99% of odor causing bacteria.
and there's no definitive account of who's responsible. many analysts blame russia. but we have no way to independent -- having played a roll, today, russian president vladimir putin left the door somewhat more open telling attendees at a forum in moscow, everyone's saying who did it, but does that matter so much? it's what's inside the information. john pedesta alleges that ally robert stone has been in touch with julian assange, pointing to a tweet stone sechblt in august, trust me, it will soon be podesta's time. >> it's a reasonable assumption or at least a reasonable conclusion that mr. stone had advanced warning in the trump
campaign and advanced warning about what assange was going to do? >> in the interview tied stone denied the allegation. >> that's categorically false. i have a back channel communications with wikileaks, but they certainly don't clear or tell me in advance what they're'the they're going to do. it's the contents of the e-mail that's important, to say they have been hacked by russian interests would not be correct either. >> it violated the pray i not just of people working for the campaign or the dnc, or anyone who happened to be mentioned in an e-mail. a clinton staffer who contemplated suicide. she wasn't even part of that exchange, now that painful personal experience is public for all to see. this will not be the last large scale hack carried out to
achieve a specific agenda. the question is how do we as a society navigate this new normal. afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road. healthy, free,the world b, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me.
>> i want to start with this. you've got putin today. i have seen a lot of people say this. it just seems to me that that can't possibly be truth. if someone is undergoing sort of systematic espionage, it really does matter who it is or why they're doing it. >> i think both are true. >> you know you don't know who secht you this tax return, you don't know if you broke the law when they stole it and september it to you, as a journalist, i don't care if they broke the law, as a journalist, all you
care about reporting the material independent of the source, but it's also obviously an important story to find out who is the story who's hacking all these e-mails, that is a separate story. >> in the case of barstow, you've got the "new york times," so there's three pages of one tax return in 19 # 6, if it was, here's the back and forth with ivanka, about people she doesn't like. that's what we have right now and we have news cycles that are being driven, pretty clearly with the intent to do this. whoever did it really did want to have the effects they're having. >> right, but chris, i mean, this is a pretty common problem in journalist, when daniel elseburg leaked the pentagon papers, he didn't pick what to leak. the same with the snoweden archive, we curated it, we went through it carefully. sources give the information, the pentagon papers were taken without authorization, they were
stolen and no one would stay the "new york times" shouldn't publish them. >> there's snoweden revelations, there's the whistle plower category, conscience, then there's a category of the sony hack, pretty clearly someone wanted to hack sony to punish them for releasing a film it be north korea and it massively embarrassed them. you've got the climategate hack, in which random scientists are hacked to discredit their work and now this, it seems like the press has a different role to play, because it's seems like there's an alley-oop being played for an actor who's up to something that's nefarious. >> there are two really important values, on the one hand the need to impose transparency on powerful actors, and arguably even high legal
sony officials, and on the other hand to need the protect privacy. the important tradeoff as journalists that you have to assess is this person powerful enough to justify the invasion of privacy for publishing or is the material enough in the public interest. and every journalist is going to grapple with this question. >> does john pedesta have a right to privacy? >> i think he has a lesser right to privacy than the average person on the street, by virtue of the fact this he cease one of the most powerful people on the planet. he's going to be in the white house in a few months, in terms of how he shapes public opinion and what they're telling the public and not telling the public, these are critically important thing, of course everyone would say the more powerful you are the les privacy you have. it doesn't mean he has no
privacy, some of that stuff should not have been published. but of course the more powerful you are, the more transparency you deserve. >> if this accelerates, this is now a play book, to me the sony hack was really a turninging point. like sony executives are powerful. but it was clearly done with this goal that actually ended up working. is there an analogy with the way that the media has been propagating isis? there is news, they have murdered this person in a horrible way. at first it was like we're not going to be complicit in this essentially awful act that they want us to publish these things, even though frankly there's an argument that an isis snuff film is newsworthy. >> again, it's a balancing process, to see someone from
isis to cut their throat off for the 100th time has little news value. it has a little bit. it's a balancing process. whereas the way in which john pedesta are planning to disseminate a public message and then private i something else, it's always this process of tradeoffs. >> it's great to talk to you, we are not going to end up in a situation, we're going to be navigating this for a long time to come because we have now got a situation, we have seen it in turkey and other countries, that this is now a playbook, and it's been a playbook in other places, it's going to be increasingly a play book in which a sort of weaponized hack lands on people's door steps and we have to decide what to do with it. >> to make sure that you use as much protection as possible of your e-mails and other online matters. that is all in for this
evening, the rachel maddow show starts right now. >> thanks to you at home for joining us this hour, beginning tonight with some breaking news. new allegations from women who say they were groped by donald trump without their concept. now, the word groped should imply that there wasn't con sent, but just be extra sure we all know what we're talking about here. let's just say i have been looking forward to the time when covering gna ining national pol longer has to include a warning to get the kids out of the room, but we're not there yet, so i'll give you a second to put headphones on junior. okay, since last friday, since the release of the 2005 tape from access hollywood, showing lewd and frankly predatory remarks from donald trump, behind the scenes at a california tv shoot. that tape